Why I Quit Dating Girls Who Club, Party, or Drink | Girls Chase

Why I Quit Dating Girls Who Club, Party, or Drink

Chase Amante

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girls who partySomething I've been asked from time to time on this site (most recently in a forum post by one of our members here) is why I don't date girls who club, party, drink, or have "girls' nights out".

The questions you most frequently get about this are:

  • Doesn't every girl do these things?

  • Who cares if she goes out and does a little drinking? I trust my girl to stay loyal.

  • Aren't you a hypocrite if you do these things but expect her not to?

  • Don't you trust your women to stay faithful to you? I thought you wrote in the article on how to prevent cheating that it was possible to be so great a partner than women wouldn't want to cheat?!

Most of these thoughts come from rather different places than where I come at relationships from, though. These thoughts revolve more around fear of loss, and/or a feeling of helplessness to control for or select against this behavior... neither of which I have.

This article will not be terribly helpful if you're still just starting out on your journey to get good with women, or are intermediate there, because you will not be able to follow it. Real screening is dependent on the ability to say "no," and until you reach the place where you truly have absolute abundance with women, there will always be women where your logic will say, "I'm not so sure about this one..," but your emotions will hit the override button and tell you, "Stop being silly - she's great."

So let's talk about why I recommend steering clear of these kinds of women if you want a stable, healthy relationship that is a boon to your existence, rather than the bane of it.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

Brian48's picture

I read ur article awhile back about how to downplay the money you make and things of that nature as not to be cast in the boyfriend zone slowing down how fast she would sleep with you, thinking your a keeper, and also for her not to get it in her mind that b/c ur name is Bradley and u work on Wallstreet, ur gonna have to wine and dine her for a taste, while Billy Bob, who's waiting for his disability check to cum in, is banging her the whole time over a pack of hot dogs, a few Budweiser's and Marlboro red cigarettes.

To me ur appearance is the first thing anyone sees.

I remember a random article I had read online a few years back about how men should develop a casual style of dress to attract women and to leave their suits and oxfords at work, as suits tended to attract golddiggers.

Then I thought about my own ghetto fabulous style of dress: I remember u saying u wanted to be a rapper some time back so I'm sure ur familiar with Timberlands, Jordans, and maybe even Nike boots(I bring up shoes because to me they are the first or second thing a girl looks at, and supposedly tell a lot about a man or w.e.) . When I was about 14 and I walked in the house with my first pair of $150 Tims my father, who actually grew up in the hood in DC asked me who I planned on robbing with those "hustler boots". He told me back in his day the only reason u would see a guy rooming the street with big construction boots on(other than actually working construction) was that dudes used them to kick in peoples doors and faces for whatever illicit reason. They were for "putting n work" not showboating and looking cute. Us being young tho we didn't know nothing about all that we just bought them b/c they were in style. The image persists today: u see a dude wearing Tims or Nike boots(esp. in the summer) u automatically think that slim is thugged out.

Even with the Jordans, growing up 75% of the guys who could consistently afford them (not on sale, but right when that particular edition would hit stores ,lol) were dudes that were selling drugs. They became a sign of a drug dealer. Dudes would get robbed for their shoes. The other 25% were either really good thieves, worked at a shoe store, worked at Wendy's or sum shit and blew their whole paycheck or their mamma or overweight girlfriend with low self esteem kept their punk ass fresh.

Then I thought back to all the dilemmas I've experienced over the years dealing with certain females and I realized that the way I'd presented myself gave these girls certain expectations of me:

At sum point they seemed to always have sumone they wanted me to fight or protect them from, 9 times out of 10 their crazy ex boyfriend.

Expected me to pull out wads of money out my pocket like a mobster. "What ur broke? but u have on the fresh Phoamposites WTF!?!"

Couldn't believe I had a legit job, went to nightschool and didn't smoke weed or wanted to know why I didn't smoke weed, rob people, and sell drugs. "Call me when when u get ur shit together I would hear sumtimes, lls.

I could go on and on, but they were basically expecting all the things a "thug" gangsta" or "balla" was supposed to offer a girl, think that song "I need a Solider" by Beyoncé.

Then I thought back to the times I kept it simple(no not Payless simple), but u know a semi fresh par of new Balance or nike cross trainers with like jeans and a fresh white T for example, I would meet females, actually have a pleasant time, didn't have to "prove my mettle" or perform an epic demonstration and had sex rather quickly with these girls a they were way less demanding. Shit just would flow fluidly.

I also read the articles you put out about dudes being "White Knights" and the other one about subpar females who constantly make bad decisions and need a hero to constantly bail them out. To me that's why that gangster shit when it pertains to females is played out. The average chick who fucks with hoodlums does so because:

She can lay on her ass while he does his "thing" and get high for free all day and all night.

She got two or three other loc'd out gangsters stalking her ass but she put the pussy on her new dude good; he has a gun and he's willing to kill for her. She's willing to turn states on him if she's charged with conspiracy. go figure.

When his money comes in she's off to the shops to buy Gucci and Prada.

I mean its all about money and protection. Oh and street credit or status.

I think that I'd save time, money, headaches, and maybe even my life by getting a prostitute.

They swear they be "pimping" but to me I see a bunch of dudes saving hoes aka White Knighting. And their risking their life and freedom to do so. At least your legitly rich guy whose made millions legally, but who married a succubus golddiger who doesn't give a fuck about anything about him but his money doesn't have to worry about a drive by shooting.

Anyway Chase, these are my thoughts thanks for listening.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Brian-

Yes, I know those shoes. I used to have a nice pair of steel-tipped Timberlands I'd wear everywhere... those things were monsters. But your feet sure were safe in there.

I realized after a while though that dressing thug-like was really dressing to impress other men, so that they'd think I was tough, or cool, or intimidating, or scary. None of the kind of women I was into were remotely attracted to that style of dress. And I said to myself, "Do I really care what DUDES think of my clothes? Dudes aren't the ones I'm having problems with right now." So I switched it up.

I've had some friends from the hood who were pretty good with girls, and they always dressed well - button-down shirt; nice, trim jeans (secured firmly at the waist and not hanging down); dress shoes; often a casual blazer or sports jacket. Those guys would pull. I've known a lot of dudes who were ghettofabulous, and I've heard a lot of them claim to be pimping, but I've yet to meet one of them who ever pulled much more than the odd chickenhead here or there.

The kind of girls you'll meet dressed in, say, gym clothes, are totally different than the kinds of girls you'll meet when dressed in a button-down shirt and a tie, even if you're meeting them in the same places (the street, the metro, etc.). Clothes really do make the man... and the guys who dress all thugged-out only end up with hood rats usually who, yeah, are using him more for what they can get from him than anything else a great deal of the time.

Many - not all, but many - women who are raised poor in urban environments by single mothers, as often is the case in the hood (and is in cities around the world, too - you see it everywhere, not just the States), get trained to go after a rich man. Some of the girls do this by improving themselves, and then they're looking for a man of similar quality to their improved selves - education, career, style of dress, etc. The rest though just stay where they are and try to glom onto whoever's ghetto-rich... the pushers, the gangbangers, the guy with a minimum-wage job, and their ilk.

Probably a good call to get away from that if you want a girl who's uplifting herself and encouraging you to be successful too, rather than one who's just scrambling to get whatever she can get from you before you disappear or get shot or get locked up. Those latter girls are bad news, and will push you the opposite direction from having a good life...

Chase

Brian48's picture

Thanks Chase, stay razor sharp.

John T.'s picture

Hey Chase,

Awesome article. I completely agree with you - ultimately, every girl you end up with will have the access to your inner-self. And thus, she has the power of either help or give you headaches on tough times.

It's so true that people that don't have this "drive" that you talked about end up distracting you and turning you away from your own objectives. I can relate to this.

Anyways, I've been having problems with something that should be fairly simple for most people, but I fear that it is far more nuanced than it seems: disagreeing with woman. I remember reading an article about addressing women objections, other one about not saying "no", but I can't seem to find one on "How to disagree with women" or "How to show disapproval".

My point is that, as time goes by and your confidence goes up and you become more comfortable leading women, what happens a fair number of times is that she'll do or say something you do not like. And while a "nice guy" would just suppress that thing in his mind and get over it, I do not. But I must be doing something very wrong, because I'm under the impression that every time that I do this, me and the girl end up arguing, or feeling that our connection is somehow weaker, etc.

So, I ask you, is there a "right" way to say/show you *don't* agree with an attitude she had (or any other thing that comes to mind)?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

John-

You're right, there's no article on that. I'll see about getting one up on it.

You want various tactics for various levels of severity of the thing she's saying. Anything from making a joke:

Her: Men are such animals! I can't believe what animals you are. Men are all horrible.

You: Totally. It's a good thing women aren't animals like men are, or we'd all be fucked. Oh wait... women do all the same things men do. Damn it!

Making her clarify her position (especially when her argument is extreme / emotional / untenable) is frequently a good option:

Her: Men who won't pay for women on dates are scum.

You: Care to clarify? What is it exactly that makes men "scum" for not paying for women? And are women "scum" for not paying for men, or is there a difference? What causes the difference?

Those are a few starters. Past the initial "dealing with disagreement" though, it really becomes "how good a debater are you?" and "how good are you at making your point effectively?" It also becomes about "how well does your reasoning hold up to logical counterarguments?"

Defusing emotional arguments is pretty straightforward - you just shoot them down: Brain Hacks: Using Moral Superiority to Turn Arguments.

As for general disagreements... post upcoming!

Chase

Matsen's picture

Nice article Chase and nice reply.
Your question if there is a proper way to express your opinion on something that you don't like is to say it freely and with no hesitation, in a polite manner. If she gets it, she will want you more and more and she will be willing to make you happy.

Anonymous's picture

Top article Chase, gave me a lot to think about.

In "Commitment Points" you said girls should "believe subconsciously that you still see other women".
I read through "How to Start a Relationship with a New Girlfriend" and the point on keeping your options open had some ways that would help me to do this. Either continuing to sleep with other women, or picking up but aborting before sex, and/or having another place to move to. Which one of these, or mix of, do you think is best?

Also, out of interest, do you have a master's degree or other formal qualification?

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

It very much depends on what the girl wants, what you want, and what kind of relationship you're in. Obviously, if you're actually sleeping with other women, you'll always have that mystique about you, and she'll never be able to completely tie you down... but, that may not be what you want, or you may not want to risk hurting her if you're promising her monogamy. You'll have to tweak it to your own situation. But, at minimum, have at least one other place you REALLY want to move to somewhere in the world where there are women you're excited about exploring, so you always know mentally you aren't option-less.

As far as higher degrees... nope, nothing of the sort. Just a Bachelor's of Science and that's it. I am considering a higher degree at some point though... like it or not, people care about credentials, and I'm starting to feel a little naked with my current set.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Wrong direction mang.

If your casually dating and openly non monogamous what you describe will work. But if your looking to get a girlfriend that will blow it up pretty fast.

Girls love a bit of competition. They want what other girls want, they love to brag about their man to their friends. For girlfriend material, you want to appear to have lots of choice and options - but make them feel special because you are sticking with them and not running about chasing tail.

Often you dont need to even be talking to any other girls to foster this competition. Just blow their mind on and between dates and make them feel like you could pick up any girl by treating them the way you are treating her. Be very gentlemanly (but not flirty) to waitresses. Be very gentlemanly to her around other girls (they will comment, beleive me, i have had waitresses compliment on my fine chivalrous manners to girls ive been on a date with). Thats enough to get the job done.

Key is to not be needy and clingy once you go exclusive. Be slighly unavailable and at times a bit noncommital about making plans with them. Wait for them to text or call you first sometimes, if they trip and wonder whats wrong just say you thought that they were busy or wanted space.

Getting clingy and desperate for her attention is he number one trap for dudes when a girl you go exclusive with your really into. If you do this you will flip from hot confident alpha or beta to needy pathetic gamma overnight and she will find the transition awkward and weird.

If you cant do this without talking to other chicks leading them on then you need to date more forget the girlfriend your not ready.

_Brian_'s picture

Hey Chase,

I just wanted to say how grateful I am for the information, motivation, and hark work you have put into this site. Although I have benefited from your skillful advice regarding all things seduction, I have grown the most from the broad application of your personal growth principles. I am sure you are aware of this but the Law of Least Effort (along with the related concepts of investment and sprezzatura) have profound applications outside of the social realm. I've studied classical piano since I have been a child and I am currently in conservatory. One thing I can say for certain is the the LOLE applies to piano technique. When the LOLE is combined with the principles you lay out in your page on emotional cresting/body language you have the formula for a professional performance. Of course the LOLE needs to have its application spelled out (i.e. process) as this entire website does for the social arts. If you ever want to learn how to play piano at an highly advanced level (even if you're in your mid to late twenties) it can be done and if done intelligently (efficiently) within the span of 3-4. Unfortunately I had to suffer through some unintelligent teachers until I learned enough/got injured to start researching. Once I did I probably advanced more in a single year than I did in four years. Whats the old saying, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result". Sorry for the tangent, the piano nerd in me came out. If anybody wants to look into this stuff though check out the Taubman technique (they basically backwards engineered what prodigies (naturals) were doing physically using science/ergonomics and created a process). Practice doesn't make perfect, intelligent practice makes perfect.

Crazy though right? A website for seduction improved my piano technique indirectly.

LOLE in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zucBfXpCA6s

Thanks Chase (Ricardus, Colt and Peter as well!)

Brian

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Brian-

That's very neat to hear - I'm always interested in learning about applications for this stuff outside the realm of dating and seduction.

LOLE is a funny social phenomenon. "Grace" in a performance is really low apparent effort for large apparent result - everything from an actor to a ballerina to a basketball player to a piano player appears more impressive the more fluid and effortless his or her motions appear - all the better if he or she is doing amazing things (e.g., the basketball player who puts a lot of points on the board, seemingly effortlessly; the classical pianist who plays a Stravinsky piano reduction, seemingly effortlessly). Much of what we consider "beauty" is effortlessness. You might even say the Mona Lisa is so intriguing because its model has such an effortless expression on her face.

It's tied to a sort of natural awareness that so far as I can tell all vertebrate animals seem to share: that creatures using high effort and unfluid / uncoordinated movements are weak, unskilled, and undesirable; whereas creatures able to achieve good results on little expenditure of effort are strong individuals with all sorts of advantages, and we find ourselves entranced by them, admiring them, wanting to know how they do what they do, and finding them intriguing and beautiful.

Chase

Jason's picture

Chase,

This article is spot on. I'm a big fan of abundance and sleeping with many different women, but I do see myself getting into a committed relationship now that I'm getting older.

I do want to move away, somewhere far. I'm surrounded by a lot of negativity in my life and want to start from scratch and meet a woman who meets the qualities you mention as being the ones you want in a potential girlfriend.

Any chance you can write an article at some point about moving away and starting anew? I did read your article on making new friends and I'd love to see an article that broadens the scope and discusses starting a new life somewhere new.

Thanks bro.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Jason-

Yep, I have it on the queue. Folks have been asking for an article like that for some time now; it's probably overdue. Might have it up soon...!

Chase

Jason's picture

Thanks, bro! You always take the time to hear people out, and I really appreciate that.

I cannot wait for that article!

stratvm's picture

i think this is the article i needed to clear things out and realize the women i`ve been with were not really good relationship materials.

what i found though was - party girls are MUCH more experienced in bed - experienced enough to give good sex and relaxed enough to be able to have intense and easy orgasms - nothing worse than working your ass off to please the girl if possible at all.

i hope not all `sitting at home` girls out there are totally boring and/or lame in bed and have little experience in pleasing men... also i would avoid sexually conservative women unless you are sexually conservative too.

i`d like to add that girls who work 24x7 (in finance) especially in cities like NYC and London are probably not good choices either. without generalization i think they go crazy and you never see them anyway ever - personal experience from the dark past.

my theory at this point is that the ideal girls
- works `9 to 5`
- has `home sitting` trait
- likely from medical or education field (as they tend to be smart AND are good natured by default)
- frequents the gym because though she is hot she is not sure about it
- has dirty fantasies and wants to try out tons of things with the right man
- doesnt need 13913489 dates to make up her mind

any experiences?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Strat-

Absolutely - there are PLENTY of non-party girls who aren't boring. Many of them who have far more interesting minds / conversation than most of the women you'll meet in bars and clubs, too. Although if you like the go-go-GO! personality types, yes, you will be hard pressed to find women like that who don't also party and club... nightlife is the weekend reprieve from the drudgery of the workweek for pretty adrenaline junkies in glitzy dresses.

Girls who work 24/7 (usually in finance) - agreed. In fact, you'll often have difficulty nailing girls like that down into a relationship... they tend to behave more similar to their 24/7 male counterparts romantically/sexually, with hookups, flings, and casual relationships, but committed relationships few and far between (they just don't have the time). When they start pushing 30 though, it begins bothering them, usually.

Women in the medical field in my experience are rather "tell all" - many of the ones I've known have had a tendency to do big information dumps on you, often far too early in the dating process. Kind of kills some of the fun and mystery... maybe that's just me though. They seem a little too mechanical. Depending on what she does in medicine, her hours may be almost as crazy as a gal in finance; there are lots of doctors pulling 36-hour shifts.

Women in education could be a good choice if you like sweet and caring. They tend to be very compassionate and almost motherly. A bit too frail for my tastes though... I always have to be very careful with teachers, because they get attached very easily, and hurt very easily, too. Might be perfect if it's what you want though. A friend of mine who described one of his key personality traits as being "family-oriented" married a kindergarten teacher and couldn't be happier with her.

Girls who go to the gym actually tend to be more confident about their bodies than the ones who don't. I prefer girls who don't hit the gym personally, if simply for the reason that if she's still skinny and doesn't go to the gym, I can reasonably expect she'll stay that way for a while. Whereas if she's hitting the gym regularly, I don't know what her body turns into when she gets lazy because she's in a relationship now and decides to stop going.

Dirty fantasies and tons of things she wants to try out with a man - well, that's pretty much every girl, so you won't need to work too hard to find that one ;)

Chase

Sam425's picture

I really enjoyed reading your valuable pearls. I am an Indian guy and I am from Houston. I had a really nasty experience with one of these party kind of girls. I am from medical field and so pretty busy. Was on an online dating thing, usually get 2/3 dates every fortnight. This time I had invitation from 2 girls on the same day. One was Mexican and the other was white. I picked the first girl even though she wanted to meet me in a different suburb called woodlands which is very far away from the medical center I live in. That was the dumbest choice I have ever made that day. Normally I meet many women, Oh and by the way I am open to all cultures and pretty much easy going. I was always confident like the usual me. It sounded a bit strange as this Mexican girl wanted me to pick her at her house and go to another place. I would prefer a restaurant or a coffee shop or a pub to the max. I picked her at her place and she took me to this night club. What......? My dumb head should have know this shit right then and there. I go to clubs a lot of times with my colleagues but I never date any chick from there. And she started asking me for drinks the whole night. I would not mind giving her drinks but she forced me to have drinks even though I told this girl that I had to drive 36 miles back home and would be a risk. She was hot. A lot of guys tried to hit on her and she acted so politely and refused them saying she was with me. I trusted her and we had good dance. I am a real good dancer, more into hip hop and freestyle and she was just doing the salsa moves for each every song of the rappers which sounded quite weird to me. And was correcting me to do like that. Time passed by and I lost count of how many drinks I had. It was about 2 am when she asked me to close the tab. The moment I closed it she started bitching with the guys in that club. Till date I had not seen anybody do like that. I go to clubs every week make friends with the women over there and give them a drink or two and have a good dance or may be some kind of co ordinal friendship. I generally never hit on or entertain girls who are with another guy. I follow the ethics and avoid conflicts and fights. The bad part that night is that she made me pick a fight with a bunch of these ghetto assholes who would not leave here even though she was with me. A couple of guys there did not entertain this lady knowing she was with me. I was trying to take her out of the club when these two ghetto mofos started saying shit to me out of the blue. I do not know, may be they did not like me being Indian and macho with that girl in that club or something. If it was my kind of club where I usually go and all the bouncers there are my friends would straighten the ass of these small time punks. But, it was not place and boy it was a nasty situation. We went on verbal and I strictly avoided physical confrontation even though they really pissed me off to the max. I left her there and never gave her any ride home.

Moral of the story is that she is the typical party girl whom you described and know I really understand that I was not the only victim. I suggest my fellow readers whom I consider as brothers that this article is really beautiful and I strictly condemn dating such filth infested inhumane ladies who lack courtesy. Imagine in 1 day she made a big fuss, what would be your situation if you are planning to date these kind of female dogs who would never change for you or knows the meaning of loyalty. No matter how good you be to them, they will only take advantage of you and play u for a fool.

Woman's picture

Well, Chase,

I don't know if you're a hypocrite or not, but you sure hold some double standards here, don't you? And if every man was thinking the way you are, that would lead to a situation where men were "allowed" to party and women were not, if they wanted to be "good enough" for relationships. I see many problems here but, then again, of course you must be allowed to make your own decisions.

The thing I'm interested here is, are YOU good dating material, then? Because, if what you tell here is true about women, I can't see why it wouldn't be true with men, too. You said it yourself, you do clubbing. Doesn't this induce the risk of YOUR straying? If not, why not? If yes, is it because of some other reasons that you still think you're worth their while, I mean the women you date? Or are you, at all? I mean, you said it yourself that you want to date ambitious quality women who probably have goals in their life, just like you, and who lead demanding lives, just like you do. So, do they not need the same amount of support and security as you do? If you don't think you can get this from a party girl, can they still get it from a party boy, meaning, from you? If yes, how can that be?

I don't mean to get into an argument here. I'm just curious about your way of thinking, I hope you don't mind. :) I find your views very interesting. And please excuse my English (again...), I'm from Finland.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Woman-

That's a very good question.

I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out what's "good" for women to "date", and what isn't. It's a lot harder than it sounds. What makes a man "good" relationship material?

If you ask a woman point-blank, most women will tell you something like:

  • Sensitive
  • Caring
  • Faithful
  • Thoughtful
  • Romantic
  • Provides for his family
  • Etc.

... but these actually seem more like "nice to haves" than "must haves." There are plenty of men with these qualities that women simply won't date. And plenty of men without them that women go crazy for.

Most women say they want one thing, but what they actually pursue and hold tightly to is something else altogether.

When women get involved with a man romantically, they put the man into one of two boxes, I find:

  1. Men they want to marry and spend the rest of their lives with, or
  2. Men they don't

I'm #1. Every girl I sleep with more than two or three times asks me if I'll marry her. Sometimes they ask me the first night I sleep with them. American, European, Asian women... no difference. I like to think it's because I'm something of a dreamer... somehow, just being around me seems to bring out the dreamer in everyone else; even the most hardnosed women.

If you're man #2 - the man that women don't want to marry - I think it's pretty easy to say that you're good for dating. Women know exactly what they're getting into with you; they know it won't last. They don't want it to last.

If you're man #1, and you don't want forever with them, all you do is hurt them and spend their time and their emotions. It doesn't matter what you say... you can tell a girl you are not sticking around, that you have much to do, that relationships aren't a priority in your life. It doesn't matter, because women don't listen to words. They just watch you, and see who you are, and how you are, and decide what they want from you and expect from you on that.

Every relationship a woman has with a man she wants forever with that doesn't end in forever ends in tragedy, broken hearts, and emotional fallout.

In relationships with me, women go in thinking I'm a scoundrel, and end up six months or a year in telling me with wide-eyed wonder, "You are a good man. I can't believe I thought you were not a good man," and I have to remind them of my less desirable traits to keep their feet relatively on the ground. I change the way they look at the world; I challenge them to think differently, to throw off social convention, and to become self-reliant and independent in ways most men never would, because that would mean they become too hard to control in a relationship; I've helped girlfriends build small businesses, and handed over full ownership of business and profits to them to help them achieve a level of financial independence.

But when the breakup happens - and it always does, with someone like me... a guy with options who doesn't like being tied down and prefers to be free to do whatever he wants to do - it's traumatic for them... usually because, I think, they know they're not going to replace me. Sometimes they spend years trying to get me back, even though they're the types who never want anything to do with their exes.

So, the big question for me has been: if you give a woman an amazing relationship - perhaps the best one of her life - but she is ultimately not able to hang onto you for a lifetime - which is what she ultimately wants - have you done her a good thing, by giving her that great relationship?

Or have you merely shown her what she can't have, taken up her time, and left her with a few lessons that may or may not make the rest of her life and her dating and her search for a man to marry better?

The conclusion I came to was, if you are a #1 - if you are a man a woman wants to spend the rest of her life with - and you cannot give her forever, no matter how amazing the relationship you give her is, you're doing her a disservice by dating her. The only way I think you can be good for her in a relationship if you are a #1 who cannot give her forever is perhaps if you give her children and you give her a business of her own, or introduce her to contacts who help to rapidly advance her career. Then, perhaps, even if you do not stay together, you have been a good thing for her life.

Otherwise, you are but a time-sink, and an emotion-sink.

I think most people don't know what they're doing in relationships. They don't know what their relationships are for - they think they're for sex (physical pleasure), and companionship (emotional support), but eventually they want more than this, and they don't know how to communicate it, and don't understand it themselves - sometimes reject it themselves. They reject what they want, and end up miserable, and don't know why. They don't understand their own biology, and fear their drives to reproduce, scared of the burden of children and the end of "freedom."

So, back to your question - am *I* good for a relationship?

Well, if I was a girl, I sure wouldn't date me.

Because I like a good measure of certainty, and I like a good degree of control.

And those are two things - certainty and control - that no woman ever has with me in any relationship.

So I'd tell you the same thing I tell every girl I date: I am a terrible, terrible man, and you'd be much better off dating someone different.

Chase

Omolara's picture

You are a true Oscar Wilde. It is hard to fault your reasoning though im curious as to the girls who still date you. I run away from guys like you as a rule. That said, well done!

n.qbhamidi09's picture

Excellent article

Does it mean when I approach girls during the day who they don't go clubbing or partying wild, I cannot have a one night stand with them because they are QUALITY GIRLS?
How about having them as Fuckbuddy ?

Thanks

Mohammed

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Mohammed-

Sure, you can still have one-night stands with girls you meet during the daytime. I probably wouldn't differentiate daytime girls as "quality" girls and nighttime girls as "not quality" girls... they're different personalities suited to different things.

But you can very often move just as fast during the daytime with women as you can during the night. It's very possible to sleep with girls quickly that you meet out by the beach in the middle of the day or while shopping for groceries. Same as nighttime - you just keep moving things forward with them until you end up somewhere private together, and then escalate.

However, a girl you meet during the day is probably more inclined to not be used to fast sex, and to see this as a whirlwind romantic experience and potentially the start of something amazing... there's a higher than ordinary chance she gets hurt if you aren't framing things properly, so if all you want is one night of passion, make sure you're setting the proper frames for this so she doesn't end up feeling cheated later.

Chase

Jessica's picture

I find it odd that you seem to bash girls who enjoy girls night out. I'm a single mom taking care of my kid and rarely get to spend any time that doesn't revolve around a 4 year old and barbies. I am confused as to how once a month I get together with girlfriends to catch up on times at cheddars over a drink or two, suddenly I am branded as a sketchy woman who's tendencies fly immediately to infidelity. Maybe I'm confused as to your definition of girls night out vs my own.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Jessica-

Not bashing. I'm recommending that when looking for the stablest candidates for long-term relationships you avoid those who indulge, and assess that by looking at tendencies.

In an imperfect world - where EVERYBODY is going to tell you that he or she is and always will be faithful, he or she is and always will be drama- and headache-free, all you can really go by are people's past actions and present behaviors.

It's certainly not an on or off switch… there are plenty of degrees. A woman who's only having one or two drinks a month at a bar with girlfriends is an order of magnitude different from a woman who's getting plastered once a week in loud nightclubs in tiny dresses, for sure. And then a woman who doesn't drink at all or do girls' nights out is in a different category too. You might think of it as a continuum - and it goes both ways, of course… you can view men exactly the same way - e.g., a man who goes out clubbing and drinking hard once a week; a man who goes and has drinks at the bar with his buddies once a month; a man who doesn't patronize bars or clubs or drink at all - all in rather different categories regarding general levels of risk for relationship problems and distraction.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

I am a guy who enjoys clubbing with a girlfriend, and also having only one relationship with one girl who is fully committed to me and would not let things escalate should she be out clubbing without me. Are you suggesting that I can not have the best of both worlds?

Great Articles, keep it up!

-Matt

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Matt-

It's possible, sure. A girl who clubs is not a GUARANTEED distraction - it's not a 100% thing. It's more a matter of probability.

It's like the kind of car you drive. You drive an SUV, you stand a good chance of coming out okay even in a bad traffic accident. You drive a motorcycle, you're probably going to get hurt badly or killed in a bad traffic accident. However, there's no guarantee; you might walk away from that bad accident fine with a motorcycle, and you might be killed in the SUV. Odds are though, your chance of being badly injured driving an SUV are much lower than they are riding a motorcycle.

Of course, everybody riding a motorcycle says to himself, "Maybe other people, but not MY motorcycle!" Fact is, it's all probability - you simply have a higher chance of running into problems in one scenario vs. another one.

Chase

Pm61591's picture

Hey Chase

Recently my ex gf, currently my friend with benefits just turned 21. I know girls take their 21st very seriously, it's more like their 21st birthday month. Every since her birthday she has been going out drinking with friends every night. It's been about 4 days. Not a big deal. When I first met her a year ago she never drank and I could never get her to drink even when we got a hotel at the beach. Only time I saw her drink was on holidays. I know she loves me which is good but also bad because I do not want to be involved with a girl like that for reasons you just explained. If this continues to be the new her imma have to throw in the towel but I'd hate to break her heart. I have remained calm and unfazed and havent said a word to her about this situation. How would you go about handling this if it turns out to actually be the new her and not just a temporary thing?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Phil-

If she really is just a friend with benefits - and your relationship is now casual, and mostly just sex, and you're seeing other people and she's seeing other people - you should be able to just stop calling her to come over for sex, and transition it simply to pure friends. If/when you're in person and she tries to invite herself over, just tell her you're tired or need to get up early the next day - she'll take the hint after a few of these.

Chase

Damian's picture

Though I agree to a certain point you seem a bit extremist,
If a girls has a drink or two, hangs out with her friends once every other week, she could be perfectly faithful and trst worthy.
It depends a lot on her friends and what kind of clubs she visits,
It's totally different if she goes to hear some music and have some fun in a bar, or if she goes to grind to a loud club.

Anonymous's picture

As I highly value your advice and wisdom in the dating/sex world, something you wrote in a previous article has been really getting to me lately. You said something along the lines that if a girl slept with another man quicker than you in the past, she will forever regard that man as sexier, manlier, etc... Regardless of all other factors. Is this completely true? If a man starts getting feelings for a woman, then he finds out that she slept with a previous man quicker than he, should he cut it off if he is looking for an exclusive relationship? Will the relationship never be 100% mutually fulfilling?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

It depends on how far to the extremes you're willing to go.

Until you get your own seductions down to the point where you can pick up and sleep with women in minutes, and the women you sleep with are all mostly slept with quite fast, you'll have a hard time really knowing if you were a woman's fastest or not... and it might even be an unrealistic goal to BE a girl's fastest. However, if you're willing to devote the time to getting good at quick seductions and rapid escalation, it's easy to eventually be in a place where you're liable to be the fastest lover that most of the women you've been with have had.

If other men have bedded her faster than you, it's always there a little bit in the back of her head. It affects respect, how she thinks about you, where she slots you in the relationship, etc. How MUCH it affects the relationship depends on you, the girl, and the health of the relationship. e.g., if you're a super manly, attractive guy, and she's pretty mentally healthy and doesn't spend much time dwelling on the past, and the relationship is healthy and strong, it's a non-issue. However, if you start acting weak, or if she has some kind of emotional problem, or the relationship becomes less healthy, this can be one of the gas cans that throws more fuel on the fire.

Saying you'll break up with a girl because you've discovered she's slept with someone faster than you've slept with her is going to be unrealistic for most men in most relationships older than a week or two. It's just not a pressing enough reason to nix a relationship with a girl you dig. This one's more a preventative measure - be her fastest, or don't make her your girlfriend if you're not, is good form in setting up your relationships.

Things can still be fine even if you were a little slow compared to some of her lovers. But the more of them there are who "beat your score," and the more they beat it by, the more problems you'll (potentially - if things aren't perfect) have down the road, so keep it in mind.

Chase

Hum's picture

I think you may be putting more focus on time to bedding a woman than it deserves. Likely because you have stumbled upon the importance of moving fast to increase your chance of getting the initial lay.

Intensity and frequency of orgasm tend be the big determinants of where they place a man sexually, in my experience, and its these characteristics that seem to provoke the "Marry me please" scenario. Furthermore, again from what I have seen with the women in my life, is that the quickest lays they have had are often emotionally destructive rebound or revenge fucks sparked by the ending/turbulence of serious relationships. But these sexual encounters often "don't count" (whatever the fuck that means) so maybe they don't occupy mental space in the same way?

Anonymous's picture

The traits above describe women who are "low on conscientiousness". There are quite a bit more traits in these women than drinking and partying.

They have poor organizational skills and leave many duties/commitments unfinished (lid off toothpaste for example). E.g., neglecting to pay their bills on time, forgetting to thank others for their help, forgetting to turn off the lights after leaving a room, etc.

They can sometimes hide or go dormant from partying to try to get commitment from you, so look for these other more subtle signs as well.

There are two other types who cheat: women who are high on a scale of narcissism or psychoticism.

See the article at
http://www.datingatmidlife.com/David%20Buss%20article.htm

Or read "The Dangerous Passion" by David Buss.

all the best...

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

They mightbe, sometimes, but they aren't necessarily.

I've known plenty of women who fit this bill who have perfectly neat apartments, professional jobs (where they do quite well), impeccable punctuality, and are overall perfectionists. Many of the more likable women like this are extremely socially aware, and quite good about thanking people and making others feel acknowledged and appreciated.

You're certainly right about the hiding or going dormant with partying though - you will certainly see some women like this pull that card out for certain men (usually the men they assume wouldn't appreciate that side of them).

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Women who party and are neat, structured, etc., may just be in a period of their life where they are having fun and are honest about who they are at that moment. They show (inner) awareness that they may change. Women low on conscientiousness avoid looking that deeply within themselves for fear of what they will find.

Once more organized, self-aware women do enter a commitment, they are much less likely to turn to infidelity. They will lay an ultimatum on the man telling him to meet her needs or be served divorce papers. I have seen such women do this, they are rare and impressive (especially in America - European women seem more assertive about this in my experience).

Anonymous's picture

I read your article and as a woman that really put things into perspective. I liked how you identified the difference between a "party girl" and what's not one. I guess I didn't realize I fell into the category of being a party girl since I don't get wasted or sloshed everynight (actually I don't like getting wasted), and go to a bar for a couple of drinks every now and then. I recently moved to a new city so "girls night outs" are out of the question.

However, I recently mutually ended a relationship I had because he in fact didn't like girls who went out at all and I didn't understand what the problem was if I was faithful to him and if I didn't do it often but after reading this article I see where he's coming from and almost immediately willing to not do those things for him because he is someone worth it. I've never been the one to randomly make out with strangers and did most of my partying in college.

I don't know if I'm a mixture between being a party girl or being not. I'm 24 years old and on a friday night staying in watching movies and cooking sounds really appealing to me or reading or practicing my monologues. I guess I tried to "party" since it was another way to make friends but at the same time maybe I don't need those types of friends.

Also at the same time I do enjoy a drink and this can involve me and a boyfriend sharing a glass of wine together or going to a lounge to listen to music. I've really come to hate clubs as I got older. They are gross and too packed and hot. I do like sports bars or laid back ones where there's not as many people and it has good music and I could go with friends (who aren't party animals and don't flirt with everyone) or my boyfriend who I'm with at the time. Does that make me a party girl? I suppose I'm not sure.

But you're really making me rethink everything and I love him so much and almost want to tell him right now that I'm willing to not go out at all since that's not really a big sacrifice to begin with. He works at a club as security so he sees all types of things that goes on in clubs, one of the reasons why he hates them. Thanks Chase you made me think and I'd love your advice on what I should do.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Pretty hard to avoid partying in certain contexts (a lot of people party in college, for instance). On labeling yourself "a party girl" or not, it's more a matter of degree. You're don't sound like what I'd normally think of as a "party girl," but depending on how zero tolerance the guy is for having a girlfriend who drinks / goes to bars AT ALL a little bit can still be enough (and if he's spent much time in the nightclub environment - which it sounds like he has - he's probably going to be pretty paranoid. You see all kinds of "that would NEVER happen" things happen all the time in clubs).

I wouldn't, say, call him up and tell him, "I've decided to not go to nightclubs since it's what you want!" because that's going to sound a.) like you're chasing him (and he'll lose some interest in you) and b.) like you're trying to mold yourself to his standards which, if he has any reasonable experience with women, he'll know never takes in the long-term… eventually people revert back to doing what they want to do.

On the same hand, I've had a girl who used to party try to get me back in part by saying, "You know, I realized partying is a waste of time and…" and it just sounded contrived and unbelievable to me (and, sure enough, we didn't get back together and a little while later she was partying again). So I wouldn't go that route either… it's both sneaky and obvious; not a good combination.

Probably the best move is to get him to meet up with you for lunch (or something neutral - not at nighttime, probably), and tell him that you were really annoyed at his objections before, but just had a long conversation with a friend's boyfriend who used to club a lot and he explained how even some going out and drinking introduces a lot of randomness and bad chance for things you'd normally think would never happen to happen. Then say, "Anyway, I don't want to break up with you over something stupid that you're actually probably right about," and he will most likely gleam with pride over finally being right with a woman over something, will realize you're completely brilliant for seeing things his way, and you'll probably have your boyfriend back.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

I think people treat relationships and other things that they're inexperienced with as too big a deal. I guess their emotions swirl over things they have little control over. Or maybe they're more in love with the idea of having a person in their life more than the actual person that they do have in their life.

But in my view the best thing to do with night time women is to know what you're getting yourself into prior to spending a lot of time with them. And to always treat things like it's no big deal. If a girl likes to party -- but she's fun to be around -- then don't try to change her or to be her prince charming. Instead just don't get too emotionally invested in her. Need her less than she needs you... and you'll be just fine. This is entirely possible especially if you have enough other women in your pipeline. It's been my experience with party women that many tend to have more experience with men which means they are hyper-sensitive to insecurity and/or immaturity. Especially the ones who are older like 27 and up. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's just something to keep in mind.

In my experience in my Urban East Coast City, party girls are good for casual/emotionally-detached fun, but if you want a more stable wifey situation, I haven't met many in clubs/late-nite bars that I could recommend for such things. They exist but it's harder to find them at nite in a club/bar than it is to find them during the day in a bookstore or cooking/yoga/university classes. Not to hate on what people do, but actions scream and words whisper, and in both my experience and some friends of mine who reside in various cities in the USA, it's a better use of your time (if you want a wifey) to try to find her in daytime venues. I wouldn't have ever guessed so going into it because I tend give people the benefit of the doubt. But after seeing enough patterns you have to learn that you can't do things the same ways twice and expect different results. Certain venues give you more(or less) bang for your buck than others.

And at the end of the day even if a woman is party girl and not a long-term prospect, I personally think the best thing to do is to simply learn from her, let her learn from you, and give her good convo and good sex. She's a person just like everyone else (which means she has feelings) and you'd be surprised what you can learn from people...even night-time/party women...if you're curious and insightful enough to ask the right questions and to be non-judgmental. Sometimes all people really want is someone they can confide in/open up to. Maintain your dominance and your sexiness and your flirtatiousness. Do not be weak. And it's as simple as that... there's beauty in simplicity.

At the end of the day, you need to know what you're getting yourself into, and if you go in to interacting with party women like you're bambi -- all innocent and pure -- you will learn the ropes soon enough.

Good article.

Anonymous's picture

You wrote an article where I think you said respect in a relationship is maintained when male dominance is maintained. While I agreed with the point about maintaining dominance, my curiosity is whether dominance alone is the sole factor in the rise/fall of respect in relationships? Here in this article you seem to suggest there's more to the story than dominance as it pertains to respect. Here you say that when a girl has a lot of options (and you don't) she starts treating you colder and less well; she begins to be increasingly disinterested in you and disrespectful toward you; and she begins to act as if you are dirt and she is above you... better than you. My contention has always been that this can happen to you regardless of whether or not you're dominant or not. You can be as powerful and dominant and emotionally detached as you want, but it doesn't necessarily mean that she's going to respect you any more than any other guy. Maybe she just won't say anything to you about her trysts/hidden boyfriends, sudden aloofness, loss of enchantment, etc to avoid arguments, etc, and still end up not being a boon to your existence in the ways that you truly deserve.

There's overt disrespect and covert disrespect, but regardless they're still disrespect. And a girlfriend of mine a long time ago pointed out to me how sneaky and grimy some women can really be (not to hate on women because I think they're beautiful) but to be real and politically incorrect, shit happens. In fact according to her, women can be so adept at their arts that they can maintain a totally calm attitude in your presence but when you're not around they go buck wild and do things that will make you cringe, and will turn around and lie to your face about their actions. In fact some are so adept, that the minute you point out that they're up to no good, they calmly and deftly spin count it on you, and accuse you of being needy and immature, to take the spotlight off of them...all the while they're fully and consciously aware of what they're doing. And then if no matter what you do (acquiesce or explode), they laugh at you with their friends behind your back..."he's so stupid!!" And so, I completely agree with your point about being weary of women who routinely put themselves in situations where temptation is part of the design of the venue.

But a point I want to make is that there are women who don't party that still get approached by alot of men and are open to temptation for whatever reason. So although dominance and sexiness and power are good weapons to deflect the efforts of other competitive men (inspire a woman to choose you vs them), at the end of the day what a man really needs is insight on how to spot the deceptive woman...how to call her out if need be... how to protect himself against the deft manipulator...how to not chase her but to replace her when he realizes that he's being played.

Any thoughts/insights into the patterns that a man should look for that MIGHT strongly suggest that he consider winding things down with a particular woman, fading her out fast, especially if he wants to start investing his emotions/time/money/energy in a woman? I have some standard ones in mind but I want to see what you think...

Thanks.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Absolutely. Experience is a key aspect of dominance, and sexual experience rules the roost. If a woman believes herself to be more sexually experienced than you are, she won't be able to see you as much more than a charming but inexperienced boy at best, and you will perpetually be struggling (and failing) to maintain dominance in the relationship. You can behave as dominantly as you want; she just won't buy into it.

And yes, it's certainly true that some women will wear a calm, "everything's fine" demeanor with you, then go out and engage in craziness when you're not present. It's truly jarring the first time you experience it, when you discover that your perception of reality did not line up at all in some very key ways with actual reality. And women will lose respect for you for not realizing, this is true.

Probably the main indicator of whether a woman's someone likely to go behind your back or not is her accessibility / availability. If she's mysteriously not available some of the time, or she very jealously guards her privacy, or she won't let you accompany her for certain things or with certain social circles if you want to, there's something she'd rather you didn't know. It always sounds like paranoid advice to give ("What, I'm not allowed to have privacy?!"), but the only time I've ever had a woman behave this way was when I was not her only beau. The other big indicator is a precipitous drop in her passion - if you aren't getting her passion, it must be going somewhere else. If she's very sick it's understandable, but barring illness, if this goes on too long, even if she wasn't seeing someone else at first, she'll be a lot more susceptible to (and is probably looking for) someone who can come along and light her fire once more.

If you see one of those, it's a giant billowing red flag. If you see both, waste no time in pushing out the life boats and abandoning ship.

Chase

Bartholomew's picture

Dear Chase,

First I just wanna say that your website is amazing. The way you present your ideas and your unique take on things is just remarkable. I’m sure I speak on behalf of everyone here when I say that you’re an inspiration to us all.

I just have this very interesting question for you.

So you know how you always talk about getting practical experience on escalating with girls, seducing them, getting together with them and all that. Just reading about it is not enough. I totally agree with you on this matter.

I have been doing that for quite a while now and I believe that I have become reasonably good at this. However, I feel as if I have been neglecting gaining experience on building and growing relationships as by picking up different girls all the time I don’t get into serious relationships. However, I really do want to get into a serious relationship with the woman I love when the time comes.

In that sense do you believe that getting “practical” experience on building and growing relationships (that means being through quite a few committed relationships and breakups) is important for maintaining a good relationship when you find the “one”?

Or is “practical experience” in a relationship context something that can be build and learnt along the way while you are already in a relationship with someone you love? Even though one has not had much prior experience to this relationship.

Or at least is this something that can more easily be learnt through reading? When compared to escalating with new girls etc.

I hope you can help me on this matter.

Thanks Chase!

TF's picture

Hey Chase. I just read the article on Girl Types: Club Queens (http://www.girlschase.com/content/girl-types-club-queens), and you say a lot of things in that article that contradict what you say in this article. I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned that, frankly there are WAY too many comments on this topic (I tried to go over them but I'd be sitting here reading comments for at least 2 hours).

I know that that post is from 2010, but some of the things mentioned are from the opposite view of this post. Here's an example:
"What’s a Club Queen like outside of a nightclub, you might ask? Interestingly, you’re most likely to find a Club Queen doing something relatively solitary and lowkey, like reading a book at the store downtown, or relaxing by herself with a cup of Joe at the local coffee shop." (this one may seem irrelevant, because when compared to the context, it is contradictory).

And also, the last sentence:
"...you’ll be well on your way to having one of the most dynamic, exciting, rewarding women out there." (when referring to club queens).

I'm not trying to bash you or be a thorn in you're side, but am I right to conclude that, between the time of that article, and this one, you have learned a great deal of great lessons pertaining to the types of women, especially party girls?

Maybe consider removing that article, revising it, or add an update post, if my conclusion is correct.

Thanks for reading.

Anonymous's picture

I think Chase adequately sums up what you're getting yourself into if you date a Club Queen. Perhaps you should ponder on some of the implications of what Chase said in his Club Queen article and you see the relevance to this article. To truly understand it, you should attract, date, and invest your emotions and time and money in a Club Queen or two or three and report what your findings are here when you are done...

But Chase adequately addresses the Club Queen in his article. For example he says:
"In the time she does spend with someone, however, she is adept at making that person feel very comfortable with her, and as if he is someone special to her. Though, the feeling is often not mutual – very often, the Club Queen is being sociable and charming, but not necessarily honest about her feelings toward them, with the majority of the people she meets while out socializing."

This implies that the Club Queen is quite aware of the effects her charms has on the behaviors of individuals. Very likely an explanation of why alot many women (particularly Club Queens) have a philosophy of "don't chase 'em, replace 'em" because they're not that emotionally invested in you...even though their charm makes it seem that way. As soon as she loses respect she's gone!!! Good luck getting her to reply to your texts afterward!!

Chase also says:
"If a Club Queen is in a relationship but does not respect or value her man, she will continue being as outgoing and Club Queen-ish as if she were single."

What Chase doesn't say is how easy it is for a man to trigger her loss of respect/value, and how much A-Game he must bring to the table to keep her intrigued in the first place. The way the Club Queen will treat you if she loses respect for you can crush a man who is a beginner and make him bitter...especially if he was infatuated with her...and the it's rather easy to become infatuated with best Club Queens.

And let's face it, the Club Queen meets alot of men. Think about it. Clubs have a lot of men looking for women! Don't you think they'd be drawn to someone like the Club Queen (vs. other women who are wallflowers or look all closed off or uninterested in meeting people?) And some of those men are advanced, some aren't, but because the Club Queen meets so many men, she is very adept at screening those men. She has to be because she doesn't have infinite time to spend with all of them! And so since she's such an effective screener, she likely knows (or thinks she knows) things about men that some of them aren't even aware of about themselves. Which means if you are the man who is dealing with a Club Queen and you screw up in a way she doesn't like...poof she's gone because she has alot of abundance!! Think about it...how many phone numbers do you think a club queen has in her phone??

At the end of the day nothing is wrong with the Club Queen per se... she is not a horrible human being. I've met some very dynamic and passionate and crazy and exciting club queens. Zero Boredom! They're women just like all the others, and so they are susceptible to seduction just like the others. But in my experience with the Club Queens I've met while in New York and especially Washington, DC I'd say they should be reserved for the more advanced men...mainly because of the advanced nature of their social skills/adeptness and how many men they meet, many of who compete heavily for them. You have to be more exceptional than most of those other guys to keep them interested and intrigued to even meet up with you outside the club in the first place. And once you meet up with them, you can't be BORING or NEEDY or TENTATIVE or INSECURE or UNINTELLIGENT!

But they're women, just the same and some of them still want love and to be treated special. It's possible, but you have to have your shit down tight or else they chew you up and spit you out. But once your shit is down tight, some Club Queens will even tell you or strongly imply that you're exceptional, not like most guys. Some might even call you a "seducer." This might at first sound like she's trying to charm you, but she's not...she means it because think about why is she out with you...and not any of the other 100 guys who's number she has in her phone? In fact some Club Queens will openly admit what they really think about the "lesser men" who thought they had a shot with her, or the ones who got one-night-standed but never a return text... but that's a different story.

The bigger question I would say to ask yourself by time you get your shit down tight with women, and you have the ability to meet and seduce all sorts of women is: should you really spend time/energy/money with a Club Queen when there are millions of other women who are waiting for you to come along and charm them and will not be as much trouble?? Opportunity costs! I think this is what Chase was trying to get at in this article... don't waste your precious time when there are millions of other opportunities out there for you...many of which will not end in a whirlwind of chaos.

Woman's picture

Thank you for your answer to me, Chase. I really respect you for your honesty! So, it's not about things being "fair" here, you just go for what YOU want, which I think is rather understandable. And if I knew you in person, I definitely wouldn't enter into a relationship with you (if only I could resist it :D ) but I'd sure as hell sleep with you. And want you as a friend with benefits. :) As such, you would be ideal, with all your experience and good conversation... If only you wouldn't mind my sleeping with other guys too, because I'm far from being monogamous myself.

Let me ask you something more. Why want monogamy in the first place? I got the impression that it's important to you to prevent your girlfriends from "straying", so, no party girls for you. Well, what do you care? If you know it's not going to last anyway, wouldn't it be easier to just allow each other a bit more freedom? You sure are familiar to dating many girls at the same time, why couldn't a woman do the same? Or maybe you would indeed allow this if it was agreed upon right from the beginning?

I've had this arrangement with my husband for ten years already. I'd say it has good and bad sides to it, but it sure takes away lots of the pressure people usually feel in dating life. It's ok to meet new people and have them as lovers, and still no need to find something that lasts forever because, in a way, we already have it. A partner, a good companion, someone to have children with if we feel like it one day. The passion is not there anymore but we get that elsewhere. I don't know. I wish it was there but I still want to be with him and I believe he feels the same.

M's picture

Great article. I wish I would have read this sooner.

I live in Las Vegas and about 8 months ago started dating a girl that liked to party. Just how this article says she would have girls night a couple of times a week. This was okay with me, I trusted her not to do anything. I thought she was "different". She always came home to me. Constantly had guys texting her to hang out or go for drinks but paid little to no attention to them.

The relationship was rewarding, it was amazing for the first few months. Fun person to be with, great personality, never a fight or disagreement between us, sexual chemistry off the roof.

Then things started to get weird. She partied more then usual. She wouldn't come home few times a week. When I confronted her she just made up a casual excuse. This bothered me. I tried to put a stop to it and told her that this was too much partying and things were getting out of hand. We were in a relationship and she didn't need to be going out so much.

She dropped me without a care in the world. I gave chase just like the article says and I was in the "Whirlwind of Chaos" stage. I begged her to work things out, remember all we've done, I just wanted to be together again. I was in the scarcity mindset. She pulled away even more. After a couple weeks of me trying to "win" her back I found out she was already seeing someone else. She had so many options that all she had to do was reply to one text message and find someone to keep her company. This stung and still stings. But after talking with a few friends and reading this article I realized I was the one who made the mistake.

I initially met her while partying. I thought all girls party, I live in vegas, its normal. I kept telling myself not to get in a relationship with someone who goes out as much, but then my emotions took over and said no she can change. I still dated her and like this article says, tried to mold her to what I wanted. No wonder this didn't work out. Now I feel foolish and in the dumps. I committed and invested so much of my time and emotions into her, it really hurt towards the end when I got dumped. It is a learning experience and I had awesome times with this girl, I'd rather not go through that pain again. I'm currently picking myself back up off the floor and trying to keep my chin up. This article helped me with understanding that I have to pick the right girl for the role. I wish I would have read this sooner.

Thank you Chase

lucifer7's picture

Believe me or not, I've seen a few party girls that don't do hookups... *That* often (and no, I'm not close to them in any way that I need to defend them :) ).

Just the other day we were mentioning with my colleagues that for a girl not to drink at all... That would a point less for her.

I like drinking from time to time and I'd miss not being able to do so with a person that is so close to me.

LK's picture

I did go to a lot of clubs when I was younger. When I was 17, I had a friend who was a bouncer and would let me in underage and would even give me a wristband (for people 21+).

I drank and got silly but wasn't sexually active. I thought I was so "grown," but talking to the many disgusting men who only wanted a piece of ass was gross to me. I was more excited about taking shots with my girlfriends and singing karaoke.

I kept with the bar scene until I was 20, but it really wasn't about the men. Regardless of my irresponsibility with alcohol, I had only had one "boyfriend" at that point and wasn't interested in meaningless sex. I did have a big blow-out of hitting up every bar on my 21st birthday, though. Even my dad was along for the ride.

After that, though....nothing. I was really more focused on working by then, making money and fixing up my apartment, investing in things I needed and saving cash. If I went to the bar, it was the tiny Irish pub near my house, and I'd have one drink at the bar with my neighbor and head home.

Now, I'm almost 26 and have been with my BF since I was 22. I don't go to bars anymore. We have been to a music hall/bar three times to see popular bands, but other than that, we hang out at home. I still drink, but only at home and with my boyfriend.

Am I supposed to believe that I am somehow "tainted" because I used to frequent the bars when I was younger?

Jonc316's picture

I can't say that party girls are Bad people, however having been a bartender for the last 6 years I've seen my share and cannot say they are good human beings either. They love the attention over anything else, slightly opportunistic to say the least, can't commit to anything etc i can go on and on. I dislike their kind very much

Anonymous's picture

I got this girlfriend shes a good girl but now she come to Ireland and got freedom to party and new friends that give her bad image, she likes to go out to nightclubs and i hate when she dose it but, i let her out once a week but recently it increased and her friends have boyfriends and kiss other guys in the night clubs and use drugs, she tell me about this and tell me that she will never do this, thats why she got my trust when she go out she tell me what happened but i keep the pressure on sometimes i don't let her out and she listens but gets mad on me, im fucked here i need someones help to tell me what to do.

Anonymous social guy!'s picture

So what you are saying is that the best option for relationships are girls that don't like to be social? Or only the ones that can find ways to be social without it happening in places like clubs and bars? My experience is that beeing social today very often equals going out with friends, either to a bar, lounge bar etc. for some drinks. Is it ok if she doesn't drink, but still goes out? I'm having a hard time imagining that most girls never ever go out with their friends, never go to a b-day party etc. , but only stay at home to read and cook. I think your homo sapiens reference may also very well apply to the need of beeing social in some degree. I totally agree that ideally she wouldn't go to such places, but also a girls social life cannot be limited to her boyfriend (and some friends on the phone).

I'm currently dating a girl, that used to be going to lounge bars etc maybe 2 times a month. A bit less now. She take her work, studying and taking care of her family very serious. She also enjoys spending a friday night at home with a book or movie. But she say she needs theese "girls nights out" from time to time to be social. Sometimes she get drunk, sometimes just have a drink or two. She goes out less after beginning dating me, but it may very well be because she know i don't like it.

Your article really got me thinking!

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