Should You Pay for a Date? | Page 3 | Girls Chase

Should You Pay for a Date?

Chase Amante

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pay for a dateIt used to be the way things always were in America: if a man and a woman went on a date, the man paid. No two ways about it.

It's now not quite as ubiquitous as it used to be, but it is still a very common mindset. Many women expect men to pay for the first date. Many men would even feel embarrassed to not pay for the first date. Of course they pay for dates! That's just how it's done, and anything else would be classless and rude.

It remains the status quo to a large extent in countries around the world, in fact: I've heard many Latin women gripe about how they'll never see a man again if he doesn't pay for the first date, and when I've asked Asian women if the Asian guys they see on dates pay for them, they respond with, "Of course!" Even the guys they claim they only like as friends and will never date pay for them.

Everywhere you go, men pay for women. A lot of hoopla was made in the States about "going Dutch," which meant splitting the bill, but even the fact that it had to be given a name made it seem like some sort of big, extraordinary event.

Men are still expected to pay for dates.

I intend to show you today, however, that not only is paying for women unnecessary – it actually hurts your odds of ending up with a girl! Bear with me if that seems to insult your sensibilities a bit – before you pass judgment, allow me to invite you to come along down this rabbit hole with me.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.



Anonymous's picture

It's a matter of the girls having the goods guys want. The average girls can get a man more easily than the average guy. Woman are more at risk by having casual non-committed relationships. Not all women are extreme feminists. Women will never be men and men will never be women. I think it's too simple to say that women want to be men. No, women want to be seen as just important with the understanding that differences will always be present because woman and men are different (biologically, psychologically, emotionally, life experiences) that can't ever be converged into one. Paying for a girl the first few times just let's her know you are not just trying to "hit it and quite it". If thats what she wants she'd actually get a really nice looking guy or guys who have nice packages. The average guy doesn't fall into this so showing interest is his best chance of getting to know a girl and allowing things to get intimate.

Jimbo's picture

Please, I've seen chicks going for flings with complete losers with normal looks. And I don't think they knew what their "packages" looked like beforehand. Chase was right, much of the time, it's about how you pose yourself as.

Crispy's picture

Forgive my lack of fluff/PC speech. It's not my thing.

It's okay to be old-fashioned; in some parts of the world, it's still the social norm. The point of this article (which multiple people seem to have missed), however, has nothing to do with providing a husband/steady boyfriend/provider model. The point is to provide a model for how to achieve intimacy (i.e. sex) quicker.

According to this post:
If you're a provider, you won't get sex as quickly as someone who's not. Hence, do not provide- do not pay or exhibit (what some would call "gentlemanly") behaviors that would make her think of you as a provider, and you're more likely to get sex sooner.

It's advice on how to achieve a goal, nothing more; it isn't an ethics column discussing the morally (in)correct way to behave (despite what a lot of commenters both male and female have leaned towards in their comments). Don't let (what seems to be the majority of the opinionated) commenters here fool you-- there are ZERO morality claims in the blog post.

Anonymous's picture

If I were to take a girl out to a restaurant. I jus go and ditch the check and run. With her or not. At least I got a free meal. Git er done!

Harry's picture

I can understand both sides of this argument, but don't people want equality? If so it should be across all aspects of the board.Don't women hold office,are judges,lawyers,surgeons and such? I would want the lady I was casually dating to be there to enjoy my company not what I could pay for her.Saying men should always pay is like saying women should always cook dinner, and I've cooked for/with my girlfriends and dates before.I find it fun and it makes them feel special.I mean either we can split the bill if it's fancy or if casual we each pay for ourselves.These gender roles that people impose upon themselves and each other really pull away from the fact that it's as simple as "I find you attractive and interesting,let's get to know one another".
I guess me being a young man at 19 makes it odd for me to be saying any of this to most people lol :), but why make things more complicated then they already are? Then again we're all different and have opposing perceptions so realistically we can't please everybody.
I hope everyone has a very good day and enjoyable, engaging, dating experience

Crispy's picture

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who claim they've found it."

Don't sell yourself short dude- 19's plenty of time to have a plethora of experiences under your belt. Hell- I've known 57-year-olds that lack the kind of clarity you're speaking (& thinking) with.

Frankly, I'm in the same boat as you- I see both sides of it. Any sensible person wants equality; but on the other hand, both sexes want something for (next-to) nothing- greed is human nature. I just find it amusing when one (or the other) thinks they're totally in the right.

Have we achieved equality? Not yet. Are we heading in (generally) the right direction? Yeah, pretty much. The one thing that prevents me from being 100% in the "everyone should be willing to contribute (monetarily) equally" category is the fact that many fields (esp high-paying ones) are still male-biased and statistically this results in 2 things: 1) females being paid less than males in the same position, and 2) less females in said powerful/high-paying positions. What a lot of guys (sensibly focused on their own pocketbook expenditures) don't realize is that many females are having to take one for the team when it comes to "equal rights" because they're having to act/contribute equal w/o being paid equally.

That being said- props to you man- it takes maturity and introspection to be able to see from another person's POV. People who can only see one side (IMHO) are one of the primary reasons we still have this problem.

Anonymous's picture

I agree with your opinion, and my relationship has been that way, and I am a girl. I don't agree with women who tries to take advantage of men to make men pay for them, even though women have money. It should be based on who makes more money, and who can afford what. If it's something both can afford, split it or each pick up the check on different dates. If it's expensive, then make it clear if it's a treat by one person who suggested or both try to have that expensive meal experience together by splitting. If you can't talk about finances like that, then you are not ready in your relationship to be spending money.

But, in general, what I have seen is that some girls just want to see if a man values her with how much money he will spend, which I have never seen such relationship turns to a good healthy one, and they are the first ones to divorce with money issues.

And I also see men who insist on paying to pressure a girl like she owes him sex because he already paid for the service, and have this expectation in their eyes, and hatred if the women refuse.

Women need to be taught to not accept expensive gifts, or go to expensive romantic dinner with a man she's not interested in. This is a good lesson for women to protect themselves from the pressure, or from looking like a money hungry. My neighbor old lady taught me this when I was young. But it's also to respect men and not give them false hope to use them.

Drew's picture


I particularly enjoyed this article, and it has caused me to reflect on many of my personal experiences. Admittedly, I am notoriously a "relationship" type of guy; which, inevitably lands me in either a relationship or the friend-zone. Something I've decided I'm relatively satisfied with I've decided.

Thus, my comments and reflections are confined much more to the idea that the ultimate goal with a girl is a relationship, assuming we hit it off. Also, it's important to note that I have ALWAYS payed; for various reasons: social conditioning and perhaps a desire to impress as well. This has not been limited to a girl I am attempting to date; I've practiced this with female friends on a consistent basis as well. I guess I just have an overwhelming desire to, as you stated, provide for those I care about; perhaps a psychological aspect not addressed. I imagine, that, like myself, some people just naturally feel compelled to show their affections by paying for a meal.

All that said, I imagine I will attempt to practice a few of your tactics because I have been burned in the past by conditioning the women (with some exceptions) to anticipate my grabbing the check. I intend to modify my actions and strategy, ladies, not because I am cheap (quite the opposite), but because, as I've looked back on various dates and interactions with ladies because of this article, I've realized that I will successfully do one of two things if I pay for a date; I will either create the expectation that I, the man, will assume the role my grandfathers did and ALWAYS pay, or I will force the girl to feel overwhelmed, and, in some situations, uncomfortable; forcing a perhaps quasi-interested girl into a position of vulnerability, which almost definitely ensures she will create space and often position herself in the role of friend or worse; she'll run for the hills.

And, on a final more personal note, I think it would be important for any women reading this to note that I, having been taken advantage of in the past, have no desire of being in a relationship or dating someone who is so codependent or self-righteous that she would reject me simply on the premiss that I didn't pay for her meal. That's very insulting, and, I consider myself to be a very nice guy who respects women very much, but women, in my opinion, do themselves a great disservice by insisting that the MAN pay for their time.

Thanks again for the very thought-provoking article, Chase!

Theo25's picture

That`s an interesting article, Chase! Just one thing, make sure the girl you guys want to take on the date is not a Christian!! :) You will most certainly NOT get want you want even if you split the bill or pay it yourself! haha

Saddened's picture

Good advice!!!!! Leave them to find a husband!!!!!!!

Anonymous Pantalones's picture

I am 42 and have always suspected these truths but never trusted my instincts and Asher to the facts, and I've paid the price. Never too late. Right?(Crosses fingers).

Anonymous's picture


When you said you end up with a girl 50% of the time, how many dates on average does it take? Also, do you give them any forewarning before the bill comes that you will split it, or do you just spring it on her, and do you ever get any bad reactions? I've read so many comments from women how they won't even go on a second date when the guy does this, but maybe this is a good thing to help filter out the women we don't want.

Anonymous's picture

I disagree and agree with your post at the same time. I believe guys should pay for everything in the beginning as long as it's small. Whether its the gas to go to a free event, coffee, or walking around the park and getting a small snack. The point should be to go on a "information date" as you call it, and then get them back to your place as soon as possible. I don't think its very masculine to take a girl to a movie or a nice dinner and then ask her to split the bill. You might as well skip the headache and take her somewhere where there is no pressure on her and a place that won't hurt you wallet as well.

Anonymous's picture

yea chase great ariticle of course women dont like it lol, they hate anything about men standing up to bs double standards. i too have found myself competing for the bf/provider, which would b cool 50 years ago when date meant somthin but these chicks r goin on 3 dates a week, in these days n times those chivilrous tactics leave u broke and frustrated

can we get a few more examples on how to execute?

Ryan's picture

Once upon a time, women didn't make much money. So, they depended on their husbands to support them financially. Relationships weren't about two people mutually enjoying each others company, it was an economic transaction, economic support for the women, sex for the man. And the dating scene reflected that, men went out of their way to show their wealth by paying for dates, "Hey, I have money, date me, marry me, sleep with me." And this totally worked, no matter how boring or terrible a guy was. Obviously, Chase takes issue with this arrangement. Even if you disagree with whether or not having a girl pay for herself is a successful strategy, Chase's advice does come from a good place. He's advocating making dates about providing good company rather than providing an economic incentive. As it should be. Chase seems to have made some of his dates pay for him though....hmmmm....not certain what to think of that.

I think one commenter said something about how since men ask for dates, men should pay. But what she seems to forget is that under this rule, since men almost always are the ones to ask, they would almost always be the one to pay. So it's still not entirely fair, now is it? This rule would still ensure that men almost always paid. Even if a girl makes it a habit to ask out guys, the truth is, the overwhelming majority don't.

And keep in mind, women reject men all the time, it's not like a guy forced her to go on a date with him. Another commenter said something about how going on a date that doesn't cost money would eliminate these issues. I think I agree.

Chantilly's picture

LOL. This is so funny. Maybe because I've lived in France too long, or for any other reason. I have never ever had a positive opinion of a guy who doesn't pay when he asks me out. I will offer to pay if I ask him out. That is the way it goes. And may I just add, a woman is spending a little fortune on high heels and nice dresses. Furthermore, I can say that when I am with a man, he will never need for anything. I mean, why have everyone become so cynical that now a man cannot pamper a woman and a woman cannot pamper a man. P.S Being stingy is very, very "grossier". Just take my hint, gentlemen are hard to find these days. Maybe the same goes with women, but this whole message board is making me...sad.

Lejdi's picture

I totally agreewith Lisa. If you invite you have got to pay. It is caled maners. It doesent matter if u invite a girl on a date or guy friend, if u invite u HAVE to pay. It is the thumb's rule that everyone knows about, its logical. I just went on a date last night with this guy. When the check came he did not pick it up imediatly which gave me the hint that he was wwaiting for me to make a move. I looked at the bill, pulled my card, placed my card at the bill and moved close to him giving him the hint to pick it up n chip in his share. And he did, he did not offer to pay. I WAS DISCUSTED, I HONESTLY FELT LIKE THROWING UP. IN A WAY I FELT BAD ABOUT HIM. How could anyone be so cheap and put themselves that low? For one, he was the one who invited. For two, it was a first date. And for three, he is the MAN, well in this case i guess he was not such a man. Not only i will never give him the chance for second date but i dont want to keep any type of contact with guy like thaat. Guys, Let me tell you a VERY good advice if u want to pick a good woman to be in relationship with; If u do not pay for the date but yet the girl sleeps with you, then you know what that means, well i hope u do. It means that woman has no respect for herself and will take any man as long as you hang with her. Which means she probably ends up on bed with every man that is willing to hang with her. Do you really want a realtionship with a that women?
See, I totally understand if you are having financial problems, we do not expect every man that we date to have millions but if that is the case then invite her for coffe, or ice cream, or movies. These places are affordable, IT IS NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU SPEND BUT HOW YOU ACT, YOUR MANERS, AND RESPECT. Whatever you do just pick up the check , it will go a long way i promise you!
To make the long story short, if you do not pay for the girl/woman when on date, especially if you were the one who invited, there will be three things happening; 1. You will never see that girl/woman again, or 2. If she does still sticks around or even sleeps with you then you just got yourself a low class woman, or 3. She will treat you as a buddy buddy just when she needs company but no chances of sleeping together, u will be her puppy pretty much. I KNOW THE TRUTH HURTS BUT THE SOONER YOU LEARN IT THE BETTER RESULTS....... RAISE YOUR STANDARDS!!

Mark's picture

"If you invite you have got to pay. It is caled maners."

Which gender, pray-tell, is more likely to initiate the date? You guessed it: men. So the, "whoever asks, pays" rule is unfair to men. And leave subjective "manners" out of this. I could just as easily say that it's unmannerly to not pay for your half of the bill. Point is, manners are mostly subjective, and they change overtime. Once upon a time, it was mannerly for men to tip their hats in the presence of women. I doubt most women today would care if men did not tip their hats. Men stopped doing it, and women stopped expecting it. Hopefully, men will eventually do the same in regards to picking up the dinner check. When enough men jump on board, women will no longer be able to realistically expect it.

Now stop being a dependent, little girl. It's 2012, not 1952. Either get in the kitchen or be equal.

Anonymous's picture

hey all -
as a beautiful woman, I have to say, I like and expect the man to pay for the dates, except in a case where I invite. IF I race to pay my half, this is an indication I am NOT interested in you romantically. I think men do themselves well by paying for dates, ESPECIALLY if he initiated. I know many boys will whine and complain about paying, its not the amount of money spent, its the intention. When a man needs me to pay my half and I like him, well, I can still really like him, however a strange inner shift happens, and the relationship just moves into friend territory, because I am still in business/provider mode, it just does. We women give back ALOT to a deserving man, and a deserving man is one who initiates and takes care of business, on the front end, so the woman can truly surrender to him, take care of him in her special way ... trust me. And it is up to the man, to feel out if a woman is using him for food. I dont do that, I respect men and dont go out with men I am not interested in for a free meal. thats pathetic.

Jimbo's picture

" I respect men and dont go out with men I am not interested in for a free meal. "

If all most women were like, men would be much less hesitant to pay for dates. It's the cheating aspect of it many women engage in that puts me off the most.

Anonymous's picture

anon (4-30-2012)

How does a woman give back ALOT to a man that pays for her share of the dinner? The OP and some other posters have done that in the past only to get put in the friend zone or worse. I don't see the problem if you genuinely like the guy to pay your share. Paying for everything makes it seem like she's doing you a favor instead of enjoying your time.

janis's picture

o Lord, you dont know??!!! Like I said, I can still really like the man, even love him, but if I have to pay for my half of the dates, my emotions shift. There is an uncomfortable thing where we women cannot relax, because we have to pick up your slack. ITS JUST SO NOT SEXY. I am still in business mode, a 50/50 outing like all others...liking the man, more as a friend. I know may 'boys' will want to get as much sexual activity from a woman for the least effort and expense, but as the above poster mentioned and as Chase seems to go on about, you will get an insecure woman, maybe needy and clingy and without a true sense of herself and borders and it wont last. A REAL man knows this....
by the way, take a look at some bachelors in their 40's 50 plus....its obvious they would DO MUCH BETTER with a woman taking care of him in 'our own special way'

Angie's picture

Well, I think men who refuse to pay are USERS, they are the type of men who just want to use a woman for sex and entertaiment, they are not kind people, its also a form of manipulation as most women have being raised believing they are "not good enough" so that sets them up for wanting to "convince the guy" that they are indeed good enough by giving them sex after they showed that they are only interested in using them, by not paying. It seems to me that some "dating advice" by men to men is mostly targeted at getting sex in an addictive way, instead of in the development of the heart. However the development of the heart will make you happier in the long term, and that means, being kind. The girl may make a mistake and sleep with a guy who shows no kindness, but sooner or later this is bound to cause so much pain in her, that she is bound to wake up and break the system and dont allow that anymore, some other times, the girl is not so lucky and she gets sick or gets cancer out of so much pain. However I believe this is part of human evolution, we, as women, need to understand that it will make us happier to be ALONE FOREVER than to be with a man who is unkind. I have learned to love myself and dedicate to my life and to fill myself with joy and develop my hobbies. Sometimes I wish I had someone to share love and sex with, but Im not available to be used and the most important thing to remember is that an unkind man, such as one that doesnt pay the bill, its not going to be good in bed, because to be good in bed...YOU NEED TO BE KIND, so why bother? Girls just be kind to yourselves and forget those who arent.

Anonymous's picture

there was a time when dates had depth and actually may have meant the beginning of a relationship, but now women go on three dates a week with new guys while still sleeping with their. GUYS ITS YOUR MONEY YOU WORKED FOR IT DONT BE USED. women are no longer faithful so dont waist your money make them also show interest.

Anonymous's picture

What if the date is extremely cheap and splitting the bill would create both an unnecessary hassle and possibly put the focus more on the money and who's paying than it should be. For example, what if you take a girl on a date for 2 for 1 shakes and the bill is 5 bucks, is it really worth splitting it? I mean its $2.50. Also, what if you take a girl out for ice cream and its 2 bucks per person, is it really worth splitting, I mean its 2 bucks, does it really matter? And as for inviting and paying, I would never think of inviting a girl out on a casual dinner date. For one its too expensive, and two, while I do mostly agree with your don't pay for dates policy I do believe that with a more expensive date like a dinner date it would be rude to invite and not pay for the person you invited. So to avoid this lose-lose situation, I think it is better to avoid dinner dates all together. Also, if you do end up deciding you want to date the girl you can later take the role of provider at times if you wish. If anything this will show the girl she earned you whereas if you start taking a girl on dinner dates and paying right away she will not see the difference between the start and the current. People appreciate what they have earned.

Vanessa's picture

I might be the only woman that agrees that dates should 'go dutch', but I do feel that it sends out the wrong signals. I couldn't think of anything worse than a man thinking that I wanted to be kept in some way.

However, my point of view may be a little different to most - I am one of the top 5% of UK earners. In other words, when I date, chances are 95% certain that my date will be earning less than I do. Whilst this is quite empowering, I am also conscious that I would be putting my date under pressure that I just don't need to do. Therefore, I will deliberately suggest that they think of something inexpensive because then they have to be creative. This is a super quality that I look for in a partner, i.e. can someone be fun without money?

Paul Robinson's picture

I have dated women where I paid for dinner. I didn't know as much as I did then, and taking her to dinner was a nice way to find out things about her.

In one case, she lived in a small town and it was either sit in her house with everyone else around, or go get something to eat, as there wasn't much of anything to go see or visit for probably 60 miles in any direction.

Well, two things. First, she wasn't working so she didn't have any money. There would be no way for her to pay for it anyway. Second, we went to a nice all-you-can-eat place and I think it wasn't a lot of money.

While she knew I was interested it was clear she felt it was a little soon. We had a nice first date and I went home. I got to take her out on a second date a week later. Again, I paid on this date. But this time, I was paying for the motel room I took her to.

So it depends on the circumstances; clearly if she has no money she can't help pay for anything.

Mike (aka Mystik)'s picture

The way I see it and after reading many of the posts here, it is clear that ultimately this is a struggle for power between the sexes to a great degree. 95 percent of the women on here think the man should pay and 95 percent of the men on here(if not more)disagree with that. I understand where the women are coming from to a great degree but have to agree with the men on here and would like to think that even if I was a woman I would agree because I would like to think that I would still believe in what is right and not have the need to hold onto old fashioned values just because I was brainwashed.

Yeah, on the one hand a man might look cheap but he also will look like a jackass if he pays for a woman and never sees her again. The women won't feel any guilt either. Women don't take the man's pride or ego into consideration. Do women just want to use men? That would be the easy answer but it's more complicated than that. Women have been brought up from an early age that it's man's responsibility to court them and wine and dine them and of course that includes spending money on them.

The solution, in my opinion, as a man, is to not even put yourself in that position in the first place and instead do things that don't cost money(picnic, play tennis, go rollerblading, disc golf, go for a walk or hike etc).

I actually think that at some point in the relationship it's ok for a man to pay for the women but this would be after it's established they are seeing eachother(at least five "dates" in). At that point the woman has invested in the man and he will know at that point if she is using him or not(hopefully not). She will probably want to pay the next time they go out. If not the high value man(which hopefully you are)will have no problem dumping the woman.

There will probably never be an easy solution to this. Women want to hold on to their power while men have finally figured things out and aren't going to accept this socially accepted form of inequality.

Women are so used to having higher social value than men(especially in the very beginning stages)that they don't question things that are in their favor. However, one way for men to level the playing field is to not give in to what women want too early on. There are other ways for men to show women that they are special and make them feel good as has already been pointed out.

Marcy's picture

Really, this was an interesting read but it somewhat makes me feel saddened and insulted that men would feel that a woman doesn't deserve a nice planned out date because it'll decrease his chances of getting laid.

If a guy took me to a park to show me his favorite view top or if he took me to his favorite fancy restaurant I'd appreciate either one equally. I wouldn't think ohh this guy is a provider if he took me somewhere fancy, I would just think oh wow geez he took me here that's sweet of him. I wouldn't expect every date to be like that but I'd be touched. And if he asked me out and didn't offer to pay I'd feel a little bit like a buddy. I mean if I asked him out, sure I should be paying but if he asked me and then we went dutch I'd kind of go, oh it's not a date, he just wanted to show me this place as a friend. Especially if it was the first date. A girl can be really confused if this is really a date or not and sometimes when he offers it's like ohh, he's treating me like a lady so it's not just buddies hanging out! He actually likes me, wow and I'd think he worked so hard and find him quite endearing. Ah but that's just my take.

Anonymous's picture

to marcy... endearing enough to sleep with him. this is a yes or no? with that being said if its a no then why should he waste his time or money

Marcy's picture

I'm going to take your question seriously even though I feel a little irked that we're just jumping right to will this paying a date land me shagging time. *calms* But it is a valid question you are asking so I will respect your question. Honestly, whether or not the guy gets some will be dependent on your level of connection with the girl. If she feels yeah man I want him because you showed her a good time then yeah you may score. Whether or not this is dependent on paying is hard to say. A lot of girls are different, you have to remember that. Chase seems to have really generalized women here, no offence Chase, it was a fun read like I said but I don't agree.

Some girls are looking for one night stands, so you may not have to put up much effort to get laid. Some more shy girls will probably not get you laid on the first date. Or some religious girls won't sleep with you until you're married. The fact is everyone is different. Now, if you're looking for just sex, yeah why waste money. There are plenty of girls who will want you just for sex as well. Girls love sex too. But if you want a relationship, it's not true you MUST pay either because some girls LIKE going dutch but some will think they have been friend zoned for life. So yeah, really it's all what you're looking for. Hope this was helpful. :)

Z's picture

That is exactly the point... the girl is not going to want to sleep with him simply because he showed her a good time. She either wants to sleep with him or she doesn't.

Assuming that the girl has some interest and the guy knows what he is doing, MOST (95%) girls will sleep with him within the first 3-4 hrs, religious, shy, whatever - that is all irrelevant.

No girl who is hooked on some guy is going to care whether he picked-up the tab or not. We aren't talking about "just sex", we are talking about getting girls addicted to us, preferrably for the purpose of some genuine relationship.

Tara's picture

I feel uncomfortable when I go on a first date with a man and he pays for dinner. It's because it makes me feel like I owe him something, even if it's just my polite company (it's rude to just run the fuck away after someone buys you a meal after all). I don't date friends but maybe if I did (and we had already established a pattern of reciprocity) it would be okay.
If I'm meeting someone for the first time over something like coffee, I hope to get there before he does so I can buy my own.

Once I went on a truly *terrible* date with a guy and paid for it all myself. I gave him the silent instead of the direct rejection afterwards and I know he thought it was because he "forgot his wallet." But it wasn't, it was because he was an insufferable prick who insisted on calling me by my last name once he learned it (ugh, online dating). If a girl likes you and wants in your pants then she shouldn't mind paying for a drink and a game of pool.

And, because I saw that comment on attribution: one time I got a booty call, and was totally down for that. But then he starts talking about his sad feelings and later pulls out his guitar and played/sang for me really poorly. My libido was down at this point but I had sex with him anyway (damnit I was there to FUCK). Unfortunately, the lesson that he took away from it was probably "sharing my feelings and music gets me laid." The sex was lame too.

Thom's picture

I think no matter what, on the date, pay or not paying, if she doesn't like you, she doesn't like you. That's really the bottom line. I feel above all common courtesy does trump all. So, to pay for a date YOU invited her to is not to handicap your chances she'll sleep with you, but rather a backhanded attempt to get her to sleep with you. If these are not your attentions, you may as well skip the meal altogether, and as another poster mentioned go to a free activity. I see Chase's logic though, but rudeness is never an excuse to be a human being up front.

As a solution, us menfolk could use this opportunity to break the tension with a little levity in regards to this dilema. "I'm picking up the tab this time, Missy, but next choose where we go and you're paying. And I'm not a cheap date." Then flash that winning smile. I think it opens up the possibility of future boink-fests.

Anonymous's picture

^^^ See, that. That, right there. That sets a a level of comfort. If I get invited out it's no risk of expense plus uncertainty of enjoying myself, right there was at least one laugh plus a show of respect and wit, and suddenly I'm in a equal power position to plan an outing that is fun and in my budget.

Just don't use his word for word ;)

Anonymous's picture

Even aside from the showing yourself to be average, a provider, etc... all that psychological PUA stuff the reason men pay is just grounded in history and society.
Men are the ones with jobs, men are the ones with money, women are solely the house keepers. Its only natural that men pay for dates.
Except of course it isn't the 1950s, we've had feminism and equal rights for a while now, most women have jobs, they can be just as rich as guys. It makes no logical sense for men to have to pay for women in the modern world.

A gay friend of mine says with gay guys its the one who wants to be screwing the other one who pays. If you're going to be screwing someone its only right you pay....maybe for gay guys things work this way but if you pay for a woman does that really mean she's going to be sleeping with you? Of course not. In fact the connection is rather uncomfortable and disturbing, what are they? Cake prostitutes?

No. Its best everyone pays their own way in the 21st century.

Saddened's picture

I found this page by accident. It's a pretty sad page, not just because it exists, but because this adult boy manages to get away with this behavior in real life. What I was looking up was: when did women start letting men treat them so badly.... Do women really not care to find a man anymore? Or, do they just (understandably so) think there aren't any?
So "ladies or gentlemen", this page doesn't answer my question, only proves that we, as females are letting you get away with treating us like cheap whores..... And, maybe I'm one of the few that sees it that way, but either way, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thank you greatly,

GApeach's picture

Men don't have to pay anymore, because there are so many women who are willing to pay for dates. They want to try to prove to a man that they are equals in every aspect of life. Essentially, saying she is just as masculine as he is. Men haven't gotten away with anything, because the newfangled woman has basically forced it onto them over the years since the Feminist movement began.

Now when a guy dates a woman and he pays, he feels used and taken advantage of. Not to say there aren't woman out there who do use men, but there are women out there who don't.

Nowadays, it's good to have a conversation with a man about who is going to be paying. I can't see myself paying for a date with a man who is interested in me and is initiating dates. I would just pay for myself (his portion of the bill would be between him and the establishment) and I would leave.

Men have a lot of options (desperate women everywhere), so they really don't have to do anything. Oh well.

Anonymous's picture

"only proves that we, as females are letting you get away with treating us like cheap whores....."

Wait, hold on a sec. You mean to tell me by NOT paying for you and giving you a free ride, we're treating you like cheap whores? In what way to splitting a the check constitute prostitution? Your logic makes no sense.

Ryan's picture

Hi Chase,

I really enjoy reading your articles and I've found them extremely beneficial in getting dates, texting, talking to women, etc.... Thanks for sharing your perspective with the world haha. I'm a little different though because I'm a Christian. I plan on waiting until I get married until I have sex (and I'm 20 now & it's no easy task to wait so long also I'm not a religious monk or anything, I'm a crazy rock climber, I think I like women just as much as the next dude...) :) I think your idea of not paying for the date in order to speed things up is great. I am wanting things to speed up, but I have personal boundaries to not speed up so far that it results in sex. Unlike many guys though, I actually want to get married and have a long-term relationship with one person... but... I don't want to get stuck in the Provider role(had that happen once) and I certainly don't want things to move slow.... I want to keep things interesting and fun and not be labeled. Eventually providing/taking care of my wife is a goal I have; but, why should I be forced to provide for a girl as a college student when I don't have a lot of money lol. Any advice. Do you think not paying for the dates will ony last if the dates results in sex? Any advice?


David.'s picture

Hi Chase and all the commenter's.

This guy Chase is so right in many of the things he says, and can learn a lot from what he writes, in fact I already have done, cheers Chase.

But he's wrong here, but he's right as well (It depends on how you read what he says), and here's what I mean, you ask someone to lunch, Dinner, Movies or just about anywhere then you pay, you don't ask them to split, you don't ask them to pay, you don't ever, ever make yourself look like a cheapskate Jackass in front of anyone. As someone commentated already, it's not about money, if you don't have the money then don't try to be something your not to try and impress them, especially when you are going to give them the so called sexy smile and demand they pay.
Any woman with half a brain will see right through it, and since we want to date woman with at least half a brain then pay and stop insulting their intelligence.

Remember you asked them for their company, you asked them to the club or chophouse or bar, if she asked you then that would be different, so get your hands in your pockets and pay guys, or you will be thumping the bishop for the rest of your life, some woman will demand they pay, that's different, because they have a reason, if they insist then it's acceptable to come across with the sexy look or smile and say jokingly ''Ok, but be it on your own head then''.

If you want to get woman to pay for drinks and things then there are ways, psychological tricks.
And here's one I learned by accident, I can relate it to you now, whether you agree or not is up to you.

One evening I was standing in a bar talking to a friend, and in walks another friend (John) with an unknown female, he had just meet her (I found that out later) pulled out a £20 note (The higher the value of the note the better) and asked her to get the drinks in, he directed her towards the bar where around 30 40 growling on the pull macho men were standing swallowing lagers and beers like there was no tomorrow, and said to her I need to visit the toilet and will be back shortly.

Look at what he's just done, whether he did it naturally, or whether he planned it I don't know (I asked him a couple of weeks later, but he deliberately evaded my question) , but the psychology was tremendous, and it took me a while to realise it was a masterstroke.
He came back, she gave him the change, drank up and then she went to the bar without saying a word and got the drinks.
Being an observant person I watched this out of the corner of my eye, started to catch on, and thought, Oh John you are crafty, and I love it.

As I said, look at what he's just done, he's just meet this woman, and demonstrated the following positive traits all in one swoop.

Firstly, I'm not mean or a cheapskate, I also trust you inexplicably and recognise you have integrity, money isn't important to me, if I have it I have it and you can have it too, if I don't then I don't and you will have to accept that, I don't fear you getting chatted up by any of those men at the bar, I'm also confident you are not a thief and will be there when I get back, I'm capable of walking away any time, I don't need you, if your still there when I'm back, great.

And as I said, not only was she there, but waiting with the drinks (Rubbering everyone by the way) dutifully until he got back, and also by the way, he didn't come rushing back like a small frightened rabbit, he came back taking his time walking like John Wayne.

I learned from it, and immediately swung in to action at the first opportunity, and I can assure you that not only does it work but seems to have some kind of hypnotic affect on woman, I've tried it on at least a dozen woman when I was out socialising in clubs and bars, and every single one of them bought me drinks and went with me.

Just one thing though, and this is very important, it must be performed naturally, under no circumstances must she be suspicious on what you are doing, and most importantly don't underestimate woman, they are more clever that you think. But if you do it right then you will have fun.

Even if she was super bright and caught on, you could even use that to your advantage and make a joke about it.
Something along the lines of ''I'll need to watch you, you've got some amazing imagination'', if your going around thinking like that, you could easily have relieved me of my wallet, and I wouldn't have even known. AND GIVE THE SEXY SMILE, because you have won and she will know it.

Incidentally, there's a one in a hundred chance she will be off with your high value note, maybe even with someone else, that's life, better to find out she's like that now, so man up and just laugh about it, if you meet her again, don't be annoyed, just laugh and say, if you needed twenty bucks all you needed to do was ask me, there was no need to run of with it, ask and your wish would have been my command, and shake your head and smile, if she makes the mistake of going with you then take her home and nail her and say cheers that was great, must do it again sometime.

Anyway, I think I will go out tonight, and if the opportunity arrives then I will use that trick, or any of the dozen other little tricks I learned from the great ones like Chase.

I wonder what Chases thoughts on that were, maybe he could even refine it and make it more effective.

Anyway, thanks for the great Blog..!!

Aly's picture

Well, this post of yours certainly created some dispute.

From a woman's perspective, I have very mixed feelings on this. I honestly think there really isn't a "this is what you should do to get laid" theory behind this, just because this issue has become somewhat muddy and unclear over the past decade or so, at least in the U.S. Thirty years or so ago in the U.S., yeah, the guy ALWAYS paid. Even today, in some other countries, yeah, the guy ALWAYS pays. But now in the U.S., it's not so clear. I think many people have a variety of different views on this (trust me Chase, not all of us are stuck in "mainstream") so it's actually difficult, in my humble opinion, to offer a "magic bullet," so to speak, that will get the girl.

From my own personal experience, I'd actually say when a guy pays for me he's more likely to get laid but not necessarily more or less likely to get into a relationship with me. Why?.... Well, I always offer to split the bill with my dates. And they always invariably say no. I sometimes wonder if I should offer at all, because it appears to make some of them so nervous that I would actually consider paying for my own meal/whatever that they become convinced I don't want anything to do with them. But I digress.

I've had a job since I was fourteen and I value hard work and I know that when a guy takes me out on a date, whether it be cheap or expensive, he's spending his hard-earned money on me. And I appreciate that. But it also makes me slightly uncomfortable- I begin to feel indebted to him. Which is actually silly, because he is the one who asked me on the date and he is the one who refused to let me pay, but nevertheless, after three or four dates, I feel as if I owe him one. Or a few.

A common scenario:
I go on 3+ dates with a guy, I feel as if it's going nowhere, but by that time, he's easily spent $200+ on me and I feel like I owe him. Around that time, he might try to sleep with me. Even though I don't really see a future with him and I might not even be that attracted to him at that point, I very well might sleep with him. Why? Just to give him something. Then, I might casually drop off his radar. Sometimes this works, sometimes this turns into a stalk-a-thon. But after sleeping with him, I somehow feel much better about blowing him off than if I'd done it without sleeping with him, after he went out of his way for me and spent a chunk of his paycheck on me for the past month or so.

This is probably a really bad habit of mine I need to break- honestly, I must be the cheapest prostitute ever to feel as if I should sleep with a guy because he's blown a couple hundred bucks on me- but I know other women who wind up falling into the same trap. It's awkward and annoying.

In essence, I think one easy strategy for a guy would be to pay for his date unless she offers to split it. If she offers- take her up on her offer! I don't offer to split it to try to look polite or something, I offer because I would honestly feel more comfortable splitting the bill, but I don't want to come off as some crazed feminist by insisting, so I don't insist.

But I can definitely sympathize with how expensive dating is for guys. I've often thought about it, actually, and come to the conclusion that dating, from a man's perspective, is an expensive and often fruitless venture.

My own personal opinion is that you really shouldn't go to a restaurant/club/whatever if you don't think you'd be perfectly happy paying for whatever you get there. Obviously, there are women who disagree, as you can see in previous posts, but that's my opinion. I don't think there's necessarily something wrong with women who think the man should always pay or that they're selfish or something - I know quite a few women like this, actually - but I do think that a man paying for a woman is just such a huge societal norm in many parts of the world that many women would feel offended if their date didn't pay for them. And then the guy doesn't get laid, much less a relationship.

On a side note, when I'm actually in a committed relationship with a guy, I prefer to buy meals/whatever for each other. Going dutch with my boyfriend just seems like the most unromantic thing ever, so I like to just alternate who buys. Sure, if we whipped out the calculators, it might mean I wind up paying slightly more than he does or vice versa, but it seems a lot more intimate and a lot less as if we're business partners rather than romantic partners.

Anonymous's picture

On a blind date , I don't know you , you don't know me. I think splitting the bill is fair.
Besides meeting a lovely woman , and maybe having a good time what benefit is there for a guy paying for a first date?

At least women meet a decent guy( until the cheque comes depending) in their eyes, they get a free meal, probably get picked up by the guy who will more than likely have a car and ass an added bonus , she may give up sex that she will enjoy

Anonymous's picture

Most women only have sex with a partner once they get a whiff of exclusivity with them & they are labeled as prudent for this.

In that same light men should not have to spend their money on women until they are exclusive. Especially concidering we have to date many women before 1 is exclusive. Yet we are labeled 'cheapskate' if we don't.

It's time men started putting women in their place.

Enochian's picture

It's more effective to apply the 5 C's on your dates If you don't wanna pay.

The pay or should not pay is also a great way to find what out a girl is really is (screening/qualifying? am i right?) , whether she's a great girl to be with, that she focuses on YOU and not for the food, drinks etc. or the other, the narrow minded girls (Like these girls who post hate comments, etc. I bet Chase if you can date one of these girls, they'd go like deleting all the comments they posted here, LOL) Always remember that if girl says something, It doesn't mean that it is literal.

I recommend that you should always give a hint to a girl in advance and in indirect way that you're not gonna pay for the date. Like : (after you've asked her to go on a date and she agreed, of course she's gonna ask where or when or whatever...) "Yeah I know a great place, They serve one of the best hot choco in town, and It's affordable for both us. Are you cool?" something like this, I tried this several times and it really worked. The girl doesn't expect me to pay, and sometimes when they're having a lot of fun, they pay for everything ;) Also try this method, Like : (example you go for a hot choco date) you both order for the hot choco first and YOU alone order for something to pair with the chocos (a bread or whatever) Btw, I find it effective on places where there is a "pay as you order" rule.

I'm from PH, and we've got like the most conservative females here and that of traditional dating is mainstream here. (It's hard to get sexually intimate with girlfriend material women in just 3 to 5 dates, you really have to deal with her ASSURANCE psychology thing. tsk.)

Anyways it's just my personal perspective, I'm like running Chase's game for like 5 months now. LMAO!

Another great post Sensei!

The real truth is to be the truth that you yourself have journeyed to discover.

Victoria 's picture

Actually,I dont like to be paid for.I like to think of it as owing no one nothing!infact

I dont go on asked-out dates if Im broke cuz i cant imagine going on a date with out money(horror!!).Then I dont have to put up with you for whatever reason if i dont like you after all;can just get up and leave.if i do it ALL the time,then its a subtle way of saying "Dude,we'll probably never date".if half of the time,then i really like you.either way,i still like to pay for something.
just my $0.02 :-)

gambetto's picture

As a woman, I'm going to side with the ladies here. I think it's much more sexy if he pays and I believe in the if you ask someone out, you pay rule. If I ask out, I always pay. Also agree it's not about the money. If you must not pay, take her out dancing or to a park or something. The whole split thing after someone asks you out is a bad move. Making HER pay after you ask her out, forget're never going to see her again. The only guys who have ever pulled the I-forgot-my-money line on me or have asked me to pay (however sweetly) have been complete jerks over all.

martin's picture


I agree that paying for the date make you go for the provider and it's less good.
but, I think it's true that most woman have that FLAT RULE in their mind that says:
if the men takes me to a meal (for instance) and not pay, it will lower his points.
this rule is so hard in they mind that I think most of the woman don't want to meet you if you do it.
however, If you did go for a date that cost money and do 50/50, and still the woman want to meet you afterwards the are few reasons for that:
1. you be super perfect on the date (the paing lower your points but, you had too much)
2.maybe the girls was from some culture that don't have this FLAT RULE too important to them)

so unless you have better solution to this,
I anyway thinks that it's better to don't take woman for date that cost money at all. -
not only it's better to prevent things getting too fomal,
but also it's get you two more isolated,
and the positive sideeffect of that is - you don't need to pay, and you don't break the silly law about paying that girls have.

unless you have better way to take girls to date that cost money, split bils and don't break that rule...

Anonymous's picture

Great stuff, Chase. Great stuff. Darned women expecting a free ride.. never again!

You're right.. they rarely slept with me.. I paid for everything.. went on several dates.. felt like a complete sucker.

From now I'll always split/Dutch, this way even if I don't get sex I won't feel bad or anything cuz I didn't invest anything. It should be a 2 way street, both parties investing both time and money.

Thank you thank you thank you.

Garrett's picture

Hey Chase!

Great post, I managed to read this one over again, as I was at the mall the another night and I ran into my friend and his girlfriend. What I found to be confusing was the fact that the girl liked him for months and they stayed friends for months until he finally escalated things forward after months of seeing her. Another thing, this girl is beautiful, intelligent, personable and more, meanwhile this guy is pretty average, and there is nothing really all that special/sexy about him, and I know this through our friendship.

I've seen this happen a few times, that's why I'm somewhat confused. In my opinion, Chase, following your advice would lead to a lot more success as logically and emotionally, it easily overpowers anything that society teaches today. So my question is, why do beautiful/attractive girls settle for guys with no game, who move slow, and you're typical nice guy who does everything that society tells them to do like pay for dates, move slow?

The only logical answer I can think of is that they have no other/better options in their life, therefore they fall for the best option available. So do girls only relegate guys to the friendzone if they have other options? Do they just select the best option available and even if he is nothing near to what you advocate on this site, they still settle for him?

I'd figure a beautiful girl would have guys coming from everywhere, some of which would move faster than these normal boring nice guys, so why would these girls be attracted to such average normal guys when they can get practically any guy? Then again, I personally haven't met any guys who understand the need to move fast, and most of them have no game, move slow, and sometimes even get the girl!

The evidence I have lies in the fact that I went to ask my friend how he got his girlfriend and he said, "Man, I just moved slowly, don't move fast, you don't need to/want to!" Also, another guy who is dating this other beautiful girl explained, "You don't have to move fast, just wait like a month and then ask her out! Worked for me, I've been dating my girlfriend for over 2 years." I then asked my friends if these girls had other guys chasing them, both of which said they did. Whenever I meet guys like this, we usually engage in long psychologically related arguments; however, their point of view is always based on what society tells them to do, which is clearly misguided. Oh well, beginners luck I guess?

Anyways, thanks for the help, looking forward to hearing your thoughts, Chase!

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