I've been with my fair share of "attached" women before -
girls with boyfriends and girls with husbands. As I've mentioned
before, the way I see it,
there's always some guy, SOMEWHERE who's going to be angry you're
sleeping with a girl - whether he's her boyfriend, her ex-boyfriend,
her husband, or just some guy who's already "called dibs" on her and
you moved faster, it doesn't matter - somebody somewhere is upset that
you're with "his" girl. So you can either spend time worrying if some
man you don't know will have his feelings hurt if you sleep with a
woman who wants you, or you can sleep with a woman who wants you and
figure that if someone is upset about her for sleeping with someone
else, well, that's between that person and her.
And if she was REALLY his, there's not a thing you could've done to
get her... trust me.
By the same coin, it doesn't bother me a lick when men are trying to get a girl *I'm* seeing. If you're dating a beautiful girl, men will want her, and men will try to get her. More power to them for trying. And hey, if she DOES give you the slip for some other cat, you can take that as strong evidence that either you weren't doing things right with her, or she wasn't the kind of girl who believes much in loyalty and fidelity, or you're dealing with some combination thereof (usually it's some combination thereof).
Lately though, I've been seeing some pretty lame attempts by men trying to get my girlfriend. And it's made me (and my girlfriend) realize: most men have no idea what to do when a girl has a boyfriend and they like her.
In an effort to stem the tide of lame attempts men make to get girls with boyfriends, I've put together a list here of the top 3 things TO do, and the top 7 things NOT to do when you're trying to get a girl who's got a guy. After reading this list you will, I hope, be in a much better position to avoid making these mistakes - and avoid ending up in time-wasting or worse situations with attached women, too.except waste your time, and potentially other things, too (such as: effort, emotions, money) if you aren't careful. Look out for these girls, or you might get sucked into a black hole where you're chasing after a girl, and eventually even perhaps can't stop thinking about her and start falling for her, while she's busily shacking up with that silly boyfriend you thought you could outfox.
Many a daring man has been lost to falling for a girl with a
boyfriend he can't convince her to leave.
To save you from such a fate, our list of what not to do starts off with this unique category of women and situations: the Time Wasters.
No doubt you've been out somewhere - a bar, a nightclub, a party - and met or seen the girl who's miffed at her boyfriend and is trying to make him jealous. "Ah, easy pickings!" your mind might suddenly declare, as a diabolical grin spreads across your face.
Not so fast.
If a girl has a boyfriend with her at a party or club and she's upset at him and trying to make him jealous, that tells you two things:
- She's close enough with him that she CAME with him, and
- He affects her emotionally enough that he can make her upset
There's usually a third point attached to this one, too:
- She has friends close-in-tow nearby
What's wrong with these things? Take it to the next logical conclusion:
- She came with him, which means she's probably LEAVING with him. Right?
- If he affects her emotionally a great deal, that means she has strong emotions for him
- If she has strong emotions for him, those emotions are going to also include LOVE
- If she's trying to make him jealous, she isn't focused on you... she's focused on HIM
- Finally, if her friends are there, they're going to step in and intervene
For all these reasons, a girl who pops up looking for some guy to help make her boyfriend jealous is usually a bad bet and is going to lead to wasted time and effort.
There is, however, ONE glaring exception. Before anyone asks me to censor this because they don't like it, remember that when a girl is trying to make her boyfriend jealous, she isn't interacting with another guy as a person - she's trying to USE him as a tool to make her boyfriend mad. Is there harm in having a consensual encounter with a woman who was trying to use you? The only people who seem to have a gripe with this are those who believe that women are unable to control themselves, and therefore men must control women's emotions for them, for the good of society.
Needless to say, as someone who sees women as, well, thinking,
independent PEOPLE, this argument doesn't hold much salt with me.
So here it is: if you move fast with a girl who has a boyfriend - like, really fast - you can (sometimes) clean up here.
One friend of mine met a girl who was upset at her boyfriend and she took him out to her car for a quick fling about 30 minutes after they met.
Another friend of mine met a girl upset with her boyfriend and took her in an alleyway outside the nightclub they met, before she went back inside to rejoin her friends and boyfriend.
If you don't have your sexual vibe down and you're not moving blazing fast at handling logistics though, girls mad at their boyfriends and trying to make them jealous will just waste your time. They're just trying to use you to make the boyfriend feel bad and chase after them.
- Spend a lot of time with a girl trying to make her man jealous
- Hang out with the friends of a girl trying to make her man jealous
- Meet the boyfriend of a girl trying to make her man jealous
- Do anything other than move, move, move her to the point that you get together... or she decides she doesn't actually want to do something with you and goes back to her boyfriend
Don't be a tool to help her make her boyfriend chase her harder. Escalate things and see if you can move girls that are (seemingly) flirting with and interested in you, and if you can't - move on. There are plenty of other women you can meet who won't be nearly as much of a headache.
I don't recommend doing this anyway (see the ever-popular-with-the-ladies "Should You Pay for a Date?"), but when a girl has a boyfriend this one ESPECIALLY goes out the window.
Why? Because imagine the value calculation going on in her head:
There you are, pursuing her, spending time on her, spending money on her.
Meantime, she continues seeing her boyfriend.
You take her out for a nice seafood dinner... then do call her again. The next day. After she went home after your dinner and had sex with her boyfriend.
This continues for some time. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Now... how's this affect your value to her? You're pursuing her over time, spending on her, entertaining her, and he's... sleeping with her.
I'll tell you how it affects it. Her attraction for you plummets deeper and deeper down into the bottomless well of no-attraction.
I've seen this happen back in the old days when I'd still spend time taking women on multiple dates and I did this with girls in relationships, and I still see this now with guys trying to get girls I'm dating. My current girlfriend will let male friends who want to be more than friends buy her dinner, but you can see the drop in attraction as time goes on - she might describe the guy as charming initially, but after a few of these outings she visibly has less and less respect for him.
Don't be that guy who's taking a girl who's already got a boyfriend on date after date. If you can't do it in one date, the chance that you do do it falls dramatically with all women - but especially with a woman who's already got a man who's providing for her what you are not.
You know what I'm talking about: the guy who's just friends with a girl he likes in the hopes that she'll eventually realize he's better for her than her boyfriend is, or that she's eventually going to break up with her boyfriend and then the two of them can be together.
Why's this a bad idea? If you don't know, you need to check out that "Just Friends" article, as well as the one on the friend zone. But the long and short of it is, she's going to stop seeing you as a potential mate and come to value you primarily just for your friendship. She will date someone when she eventually breaks up with her boyfriend... but it won't be one of her close male friends.
And all the while, the guys who were plowing all their time into "being there" for her are going to receive nothing in return for their time - at least not what they'd hoped. The only real thing you'll get will be a front row seat to her relationship ups and downs, and you'll get to be there to dry her eyes in between boyfriends.
Not exactly "Consolation Prize of the Year," if you ask me. Don't waste time on being a girl's friend while you hope for her relationship to end.
Instead, just come back into her life when her relationship ends. Trust me, she'll have a lot more attraction for you still than the guys who were hanging around holding her hand through the break up... and instead of you being the one standing there going, "Hey! But I put so much time in!" it'll be other guys saying that, while you get the girl.
You may be surprised to hear it, but there are, in fact, girls who
are nothing but teases out there. My girlfriend right now is this way -
she leads men on and leads men on, and they never get anywhere with
her. She did it when she was single, and she does it now. She used to
not be aware she was doing it, but now she is... and she keeps doing it
Many guys HATE hearing about these kinds of girls, because they've had their own run ins with a tease and it wasted a lot of their time. Understand this, though: a girl who's a tease is not (usually) being a tease out of malice, but out of a sense of fun.
I've seen a few girls who led men on because they liked messing with guys. That's pretty rare, though. Most of the girls who knowingly lead men on do it because they get a kick out of it, and they really believe that they're making the man feel good too - he gets to talk to a pretty girl, right?
And that's the rub: the girl figures the value the man gets out of the whole interaction is that he gets to talk to a pretty girl. When a girl is leading a man on, she assumes he's a guy who doesn't get to talk to pretty girls that much.
Why? Because experienced guys don't get led on. It's only the guys who don't know what they're doing that do.
What do experienced guys do differently? They don't waste time. They'll very quickly set up dates and get together with a girl, and very quickly sleep with a girl, or they'll disappear.
- Texting back and forth for hours
- Confessing their feelings
- Fretting because they haven't heard back from her in too long
Just plain and simple "make it happen or move on."
How can you tell if a girl's a tease? A few ways:
- Most important: she'll be in control of the conversation
- She'll get a guy telling a lot about himself or flirting
- She won't tell much about herself or let you get to know her
- She'll avoid meet ups as much as possible - they're harder to control
A girl who's a tease is getting her kicks while in a relationship
without risking that relationship. After all, no harm a guy can do her
over text, right? She'll sometimes meet up if pushed, but she'll get
upset if the meet up goes out of control and the guy tries to advance
things. Why's that upsetting? Because
that's not the role he's supposed to play.
He's supposed to text her and let her get her kicks, and in return she'll provide some hope to him that he might actually have a chance with a hot girl like her.
The reality? He lost his chance the moment he started chasing her. Don't chase women - especially
not women in relationships, and especially
not women who'll tease.
Just because a girl who has a boyfriend decides to go for you doesn't automatically mean you should go for it. There are other considerations, too, not the least of which are the ones where there are going to be consequences to your actions that aren't going to be so good.
I don't care if he's:
- Her boyfriend,
- Her husband, or
- Her ex and she's totally single...
... if the guy's unstable and a mess and you know he's a problem, stay away from her. It's not worth putting yourself in a situation where a guy's going psycho because his little princess ran off and hooked up with some guy she met at a dive bar (you).
And if you think he'll never find out, you might be surprised. I received a phone call from the husband (whom I didn't know existed) of a girl I slept with sometime back. I thought she was single; turned out she was a newlywed. I've met boyfriends who gave me cold stares; they knew.
I don't know anyone personally who's had a violent run-in with a boyfriend, husband, or ex of a girl he's slept with, and I know some guys with pretty sordid pasts, but this sort of thing is something to be very wary of. If she's the kind of person who'll involve herself with a crazy violent person, too, that says something about her as well - even if she's trying her best to not let on that there might be anything wrong.
Steer clear if she's got an overly possessive man in her immediate past or present. There are thousands or millions of women in your town right now that aren't going to introduce those kinds of problems into your life, no matter how "wonderful" she might seem to be in the moment.
A girl who's emotionally a mess can trigger another one of those deceptive "Ha HA! Easy pickings!" moments in many men's heads (same as an attractive man who's emotionally a mess can trigger those moments in women's), but I call that "deceptive" for a reason: girls who are emotionally a mess are not a walk in the park.
Whether you want to steal a girl like this away from her boyfriend and turn her into your girlfriend, or you're just looking for a one-time night of bliss, you're going to get a lot more than you bargained for when you date the Girl Who's a Mess™ with all her emotional baggage in tow.
What does "more" mean, exactly? Well, to put it bluntly: you're going to be listening to her problems - often, complaints about her boyfriend - and she's going to be constantly talking about what makes her unhappy. If you're good, you can tell her, "Shut up, and let's just try and have a great time and not think about our problems," but at some point - maybe before you take her to bed, maybe after - those problems are going to come back again.
She's stuck in a loop, and she'll keep returning to the things that are on her mind - and what's on her mind isn't her and you (unless you cause some problems for her that she can dwell on, that is); rather, they're her and her boyfriend, or her and how men don't treat women right, or don't treat her right, or how her parents didn't treat her right, or how someone is doing something not right to her.
Basically, she isn't in control of her life, she's going to blame everyone else for her problems, and you're either going to listen to it... or you're going to become one of those people who gets blamed for causing problems for her too.
Worth selling your soul just to
partake of her charms?
Unless she's exceptionally more beautiful than what you're accustomed
to (and perhaps even then), the answer's a resounding "no."
This is the one where I'll advise you to rein in your powers of seduction to avoid wrecking a woman's life. Otherwise, your soul will turn black and cold and all hope for redemption will be lost.
Well, not necessarily, but you'll still mess her up. Just don't do this.
Why not? What happens when a girl loves her boyfriend and you manage to seduce her despite herself anyway and get her in bed? It was her decision anyway... right?
Here's the thing: most people are not REALLY in control of their lives. This is why most people fear seducers so much. Most people are floating aimlessly through life, chasing after emotions, looking for their next emotional fix, following some fleeting, vaporous sense of purpose they absorbed from church or school or society or the latest Sex and the City rerun. They don't really know who they are, they don't really know what they want, and they let other things around them influence them by impacting their emotions.
And as a seducer, what you're doing is you're impacting women's emotions.
Usually, this is a good thing: you pluck a girl out of the mediocrity that is ordinary life and give her an extraordinary experience. Maybe the two of you go on to be paramours; maybe it was just that one night that you spent together as lovers. Either way, you leave a positive, meaningful impact on a girl and she'll always look back warmly on having met you and gone away with you.
Not so for the girl you seduce who loves her boyfriend, though. That girl you're temporarily blinding to her emotions by creating other emotions in her... but then, once it's over, her love for him comes rushing back, and she's torn apart.
I haven't seen this myself - I stay far away from people who are in love, it isn't something I want to mess with - but some of my more cynical friends haven't, and I've heard some of the stories of girls coming to see them and crying over their boyfriends they love. It messes with women's heads.
For your own sake and for hers, don't date or sleep with a girl who has a boyfriend she loves. It isn't worth it.
Let's say a girl has a boyfriend and you realize she doesn't fall into Category One or Two - she isn't a time waster or worse. She's got a man, but she isn't happy with him - she wants you. At least, you think she does. What should you do?
In this last part of the post, I want to focus on those three things you should do if you want to get together with a girl who has a boyfriend... those things that will help you to be a success.
Everyone falls into routine with their relationships at some point. He does his thing, and she does hers... and she gets bored. Your role as the "guy on the side" or as the new guy who's going to take the place of the boyfriend, if you want that, is to be what he is not: exciting, fresh, and different.
What that means, of course, is that the guys who try to get a girl who has a boyfriend by talking about their boring jobs and dull hobbies are even less likely to get girls than the guys who do that with single women.
That doesn't mean to be an entertainer though, either. Funny doesn't get you girls... otherwise, Bozo the Clown would be up to his eyeballs in women, instead of dogs and kids and colorful fuzzy balls. A good sense of humor and wit is fine - but you need to open her eyes and show her vistas she doesn't see in her relationship.
How do you do this?
Be calm. Be cool. Move fast. And don't be a burden. Don't complain to her, don't whine, don't seem anything more than a dream... because that's what she wants and needs you to be.
She needs solace from the drudgery of an everyday relationship with an everyday guy. You must be exceptional.
Some guys meet a girl with a boyfriend who is not sure whether she wants them or not. Many guys will get discouraged here and throw in the towel, when in fact had they persisted somewhat they would've gotten the girl.
You needn't be persistent in an off-putting way - you can be quite charming as you persist. e.g.:
You: Come with me, let's steal away into the night.
Her: I can't... I have a boyfriend.
You: It's okay, he'll never know.
Her: But *I'll* know.
You: So will I. We can share it together as a secret.
Her: [laughs] No!
You: I don't think you'd be laughing if you weren't interested.
Her: I'm laughing because this is ridiculous.
You: You're laughing because you're too excited to contain your laughter. Now let's go.
Her: [laughs] I am not going anywhere!
You: We'll go for five minutes and then you can leave if you want to.
Her: Okay. But ONLY five minutes!
You: Cross my heart.
Her: [laughs] Okay, let's go.
This kind of persistence can be very winning with women - very attractive to them. And if you persist with a girl persistently (sounds funny, right? Persist persistently?), and she stays around for it, you can be assured that she's at least considering it... otherwise, she'd be uncomfortable and she'd be gone.
You've seen it on this site again and again - don't try to be her boyfriend! This goes for single girls as well as girls in relationships. But it's DOUBLY true for attached women.
Why? A couple of reasons.
- Women in relationships are more
attracted to single men.
A recent study found that single women rated men they were told were in
relationships as more attractive than men they were told were single,
while women in relationships rated men they were told were single as
more attractive than men they were told were in relationships.
Why? Women who are single are looking for boyfriends - so they care if a guy's a high enough caliber that other women want to date him. Meanwhile, women in relationships are looking for flings - and those are easier to get with guys who are single than guys who are attached.
- If you try to be her boyfriend,
you're in COMPETITION with her boyfriend.
One of the most atrocious things a man can do when trying to get a girl
is compete with her boyfriend. "He's no good for you," a guy might tell
his prospective lover about her boyfriend. Wrong answer! When a guy says this,
he's communicating that he's competing for the boyfriend role. What
happens then? Now she must evaluate
him and compare him to current boyfriend - investment levels and all.
That means that even if he's slightly better than her current beau, he's still shut out because she's already so invested in the guy. He's got to be LEAGUES better... and then, of course, he's got to prove he'll be exceptional boyfriend material through multiple dates and lots of waiting. Chances are, nothing comes of these efforts, and much time is wasted. Don't go this route.
She'll be more attracted to you if you're a single rogue, and she'll be more attracted to you if you AREN'T (seemingly) interested in replacing her boyfriend... just in, say, supplementing her diet of men. If you do want her as your girlfriend, trust that she'll be far more inclined to become it once the two of you are lovers - especially if you really are a better man for her than her boyfriend is (she'll have to be the judge of that, though).
By staying away from time wasters and worse, and focusing on doing things right with the girls you like who are in relationships, you can up your odds of landing the girls of your choice - even if they happen to be with some guy not quite as great as you right now ;)
Talk to you next time.