Before You Can Learn, First You Must Deprogram Unhelpful Beliefs | Girls Chase

Before You Can Learn, First You Must Deprogram Unhelpful Beliefs

Chase Amante

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deprogramming bad beliefs
Before you can put new beliefs in, first you must push past old bad beliefs that conflict. But what if you don’t even know you have them?

There are two sides to learning.

On the one hand, there's learning something new. This side is important. You need to learn new strategies to get what you want. You need new techniques. You must give yourself new mindsets, new behaviors, and new mental models. All this is vital.

There's another side though that's a lot more overlooked. This side is in many ways even more important than the first side (learning), because without it, the first side is tough or impossible. This second side is that of unlearning. It is the art of deprogramming.

Everyone knows when a cult member makes it out of a cult, he has to go through a long period of deprogramming. This is worst for children raised within that cult, where the cult is all they've ever known. People raised in a religion who reject that religion go through it. People raised outside religion who later embrace it go through it too. The unlearning -- the deprogramming -- is as crucial as and in many ways more crucial than the learning. Until a man deprograms himself of old beliefs, he doesn't have the room to take on much in the way of new ones.

Deprogramming lies at the heart of switching from an ineffective way of trying to get what you want to an effective way.

Yet, sometimes, some men are wholly resistant to deprogramming.

And when you can't deprogram a man, you can't reprogram him either.

Which is bad for all sorts of reasons, if his old program is not a good, useful, helpful one for him.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

Zanardi's picture

A man thinks if a woman resists you at all, it means she isn't interested, and you should stop all pursuit of her

Guilty as charged. In process of deprogramming.

Ben's picture

Chase so if I want to eradicate these harmful beliefs of me thinking that I can't get women because I have eczema,scars,i'm an awkward lover,not a sexy guy,have a soft voice what's more important to getting rid of it? To stop being a bitch and just leave my house to go approach girls even if I feel depressed,incompetent, or just like shit until the concerns that I have with women go away? Or do I really have to adopt the right mental mindset in order to be able to get girls? I hate feeling this way and I know I have the potential to do good with girls because I belief wholeheartedly in everything you guys teach at this site regarding dating and women. I guess i'm the aware,unwilling guy you mentioned but not cause I think nothing works or it's wrong.It's more because I think I can't do it because of those insecurities I mentioned earlier which really eat at me. 

Zanardi's picture

To stop being a bitch and just leave my house to go approach girls even if I feel depressed,incompetent

This. Meanwhile you work on fixing your flaws.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Ben-

Just to +1 this, but once you push yourself out and get a little success, it lets you rewrite your mental model. You say "Oh, that's funny. That girl liked me even though I have these scars." Then next you say "Wow, that girl saw me naked and she didn't even object, we just had sex. Maybe she didn't notice?" Then later on you say "I've had a few really beautiful girlfriends now who didn't even pay attention to these things about my body I thought were just total deal breakers. Are these chicks weird or have I been worried about stuff many girls don't care about?"

And then eventually you reach a point where you maybe still aren't a huge fan of whatever it is you don't like about your body but you don't think about it, worry about it, or care about it anymore at this point because time has taught you nobody else does.

You may also want to check out this article on physical insecurities by Darius.

For my money though, there's nothing that wipes away worries about trivialities (that feel like monumental issues at first) quite like success.

Chase

Lover's picture

Embrace your insecurities. Learn to act despite them being there. Right now your truth is "I can not get girls because of bad skin, awkward personality and soft voice". The only change you really need to make is to remove the "not" from that sentence. But creating that new truth comes from experience, not from rolling your thumbs and waiting for yourself to think "oh okay, now I can get girls".

When you have seen yourself sleep with a girl, that's when you gradually decrease the influence of your insecurities.

Xander's picture

Dear Chase,

The same thing happens to me on dates over and over and simply I must ask you for advice. When you mentioned women resistance above in article I must ask you. Sorry if I bother you with too much questions but this kind of failure in seduction disturbs me the most. It is about failed first dates.

The pattern is always the same: to go on date with not good logistics because she does not want to invest in traveling to longer distances. Then she tries to push friendly or non-personal conversation. After I suceed with deep diving to turn conversation to be personal she only talkes about her life path and achivements and is not interesting for what I say or propose. Also does not care about my very honest compliments. Because I do not want to miss escalation windows, usually in the middle of conversation I propose moving to other location or sceduling the second date (due to better logistics) and she firmly declines. Again we continue conversation and I came out with the proposal of other kind of date (some activity together) and she again declines. Every time I try to use panoply of reasons but she is firm. Then after she finishes her story she usually gives me some excuse that has to leave and act dissapointed like I missed escalation window. Before leaving for the last time I try to propose one more date (like: lets grab some cheap and quality drinks these days, I know perfect place) and she usually tells me "I am not in that mood, I won't be available for a long time". Then tells me "good luck" and I never see her again.

Good news are that I can get dates with girls I like and bad they usually end up like this. Last one happened yesterday. Is it possible that these girls just were not interested or available for me? Or I failed to enter to provider or lover category? Two called me bro in conversation so I guess I was friend zoned maybe even before the dates? Could some smooth persistance work after this kind of dates after some period of silence? I usually assume that these girls don't want me and simply cut contact and go to meet other girls. Please tell me your opinion about reasons and potential prevention of failed first dates.

Also I have another problem with expressing lover qualities in larger cities where girls don't know about me. After I remove provider qualities a lot of girls don't see me worth at all and just go away. I use a lot of things to paint myself as lover but I am not there yet. Besides things I read on site what else could be done to increase odds for getting there? Sometimes I feel that some girls would accept me as a lover if I improved or said something but I do not know what.

My last question is not related with this article. I know some girls that friend zone every possible guy they meet. Nobody is good enough for them. And then they go to vacation and hook up with the first guy they meet in nightclub or hotel. Is there effective way for gaming this kind of girls? What causes such behaviour?

Sorry for too many questions and bad English.

Xander

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Xander-

Well that's no fun. It sounds like these girls are already showing up to the first date having mentally friend zoned you. So whatever it is that's going wrong, it goes all the way back to the initial approach.

I don't know what your approaches are like so I can't say what's wrong, per se. But usually when you see a pattern like this the problem comes down to vibe. You may want to (re)read these articles:

Vibe is hard to nail down. But once it's nailed, friend zoning largely stops. You'll still get it sometimes (impossible to totally avoid... just because not every woman is susceptible to your charms, no matter how charming you may be). But a strong sexy vibe minimizes it.

Also, make sure you're getting compliance from girls. Sexy vibe + poor compliance = "this guy's a curiosity." Mediocre vibe + excellet compliance = "There's something about this guy I can't put my finger on. But he's compelling!" Getting a woman invested makes a big difference (of course, the better your vibe, the less work it is to get her to invest).

(be careful too about throwing out provider value when your lover value isn't there yet. See this article)

On this issue:

My last question is not related with this article. I know some girls that friend zone every possible guy they meet. Nobody is good enough for them. And then they go to vacation and hook up with the first guy they meet in nightclub or hotel. Is there effective way for gaming this kind of girls? What causes such behaviour?

Yeah, I know the kind of girl you're talking about.

The best way to get them in my experience is just persistence. Keep talking to them, keep asking them out, keep pursuing them, keep putting the moves on them. Eventually you can wear them down.

The psychological profile seems to be "No guy is good enough for me. But a girl needs a release! So when it's a vaction, it's okay. That guy would never be good enough for me back home! But he's sexy and it's vacation so I'll accept him." It actually works the same way when persisting with them on their home turf: "No guy is good enough for me. Bu a girl has needs! So, all right, fine, this guy has been after me for months, and he is just so persistent, and I don't think he measures up, but whatever, I'm tired of being lonely, I know he's an okay guy so I guess I'll go along with it for a bit."

The other thing you can always try is getting them to go along on some group travel with you. Then just hooking up with them on the trip. STA Travel or another travel package like that could work great. Only if the gal is really worth the effort though, or if you'd travel otherwise and might as well make it a group thing and involve her. Try to find a package likely to have other hot girls too (in case it doesn't work out with the girl in question... or you need a few more girls to bounce some preselection off her with).

Chase

SZ's picture

Hey Chase,

1. when you said Indians live with their parents well into college, is it expected all students live on campus?

this is a new one I never heard before, it sounded to me that it's normal that college students live on campus instead of at home.

is it like that from what you know? that it's expected to live on campus or in a student apartment?

what if they don't want debt?

2. How do you maintain the momentum after you force the change after hitting rock bottom? this question is about how you did it as well.

like with the gym, music, girls, ball, etc. 

how did you maintain the momentum that you didn't have before to keep doing this new thing you haven't done? 

if a person is the opposite of hard working, how does he change and keep working hard if he's been non hard working for so long?

how do you change yourself and keep on doing It, what are the steps?

like could you give an example for the gym, ball, girls, etc?

3. what if a person reaches a point where you said a person should be by that time and gives up because he's not there yet?

for example, in your article about being older and being either retired, having your own business, or being high up in where you work by mid 30s if you want younger women.

what if a guy isn't there and gives up because he doesn't have those things by that age? should he just give up on younger women? doesn't matter how the guy gets there, he could have done things right and lost his job and never could get back in the field, he had a business, but it never took off, he hasn't had luck with any job at all. so here a guy is at mid 30s with none of those things financial wise, what is he to do then?   

by reading that article it seems he needs to have one of those by that age or other wise he can't get younger women.

so what would be the solution for him? does he push on to try to get girls as he works on himself even though it sounds like he can't because he isn't where he needs to be financially? or does he give up because he doesn't have those things?

4. is there anything you think I should deprogram from what you know about me and start fresh? let me know what I can work on.

thanks 

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

I mean, it depends on the school.

If it's a 'normal' university, then yeah, kinda weird if you don't live on campus at least the first year.

If it's a commuter school or a community college, it's typically more normal to have some/all students commuting from off campus. So very much depends. I was chiefly thinking of big 'normal' 4-year universities.

For maintaining momentum post-rock bottom, building new habits is probably the single most key facet. You have a new habit in place after only 30 or so days (sometimes less; I saw a claim of 21 days for habit formation recently), so you're not telling yourself "I have to do this forever" but "I have to do this for 30 days." Because once the 30 days are past, you're in the habit of doing it, and it now takes little to no will power to continue to do it.

If you're trying to learn a better work habit when you haven't had one, I'd recommend The Practicing Mind. Great book on building good habits and motivating yourself.

I've talked in-depth about giving up before, and suggest you read that article for my full views. But on giving up, if you are The Guy Who Gives Up Too Early I mentioned in that post, then it's mostly comes down to faith. You don't believe continuing on the way you are will get you where you want to go, so you quit. Is that the right answer? It might be! It could be the path you were on really wasn't the right one for you. It may well have been a dead end for you. Or it could just be that was the right path for you, but you quit too soon. Differs on a case-by-case basis.

With something like game though, you have to have a mentality of "Well, if I don't have X thing I probably should have, and I can't change that, then I need to get where I want to get to without that." This is a perfectly fine mentality and it works. It you don't have that mentality, it's because you don't believe it, and it's again a faith thing. It's very hard to teach that and I'm not sure how. I can write plenty about it, and many guys may read that and say "Man, Chase is right, I'm sold," then go get to it. You I know are just like "Man, I don't know, I still have my doubts" about which there isn't much I can do. If a guy shares his points and his stories and anecdotes and advice and you are still doubtful, you need to find some other way to reassure yourself. That might be meeting someone personally who is already doing what you're doing and watching what he does / studying under him. Or it might be finding someone else teaching the thing in a different way that appeals to you more.

4. is there anything you think I should deprogram from what you know about me and start fresh? let me know what I can work on.

Oh, dude... so many things.

I'd start here though:

  • "Women are most attracted to men in their 20s. After 29, it's all downhill."
  • "You've either got to be young or rich if you want to do well with girls."
  • "I don't want to do the notch count stuff Chase recommends. But I'm sure there must be another way to easily reach 100 notches."
  • "I just need to figure out the right magic bullet to make getting the women I want easy. Maybe I can ask Chase enough questions to get him to tell me it."

If you deprogrammed yourself of just those four beliefs, I suspect the rest would take care of itself.

As to your other questions in the other comment: it's a hobby if you want it to be a hobby. Or it can be a passion. An obsession even. Very much depends on the guy.

Me, I approach when I feel like it these days. When I see a very cute girl, or if I'm suddenly just in the mood for it, mostly. I don't need to schedule it or obsess over it at this point. I've pretty much not been single since getting seriously into the game in 2006; there have always been women in my life since from that point forward. Scheduling it and obsessing over it was only something I did during my big learning push between 2006 to 2010. It's a grind to go out all the time and pick up all the time (although I know a few guys who live for that grind... looking at you, Alek Rolstad!). At least for me once I was happy with where I was at I didn't need to make it top priority in my life anymore where I carved out huge blocks of time all the time to be in clubs four days out of the week or have tons of dates set up every week. The obsession/learning phase ends and it just becomes a pasttime you engage in when you feel like it, rather than this thing you "have to do" all the time.

3. Can a semi older guy like me with child-like math skills, failed out of stem, and has 50k student loans debt, have his money handled at all in the not too distant future?

As always, every time you ask this question, sure.

His pathways there are more limited than they are for perhaps some other men. But there are plenty of men with plenty of money who are terrible at math and science and used to be in debt.

That said, to get there, you've got to find something you are good at (or can be good at) that allows you to make money.

And once you find it, you've got to hustle hard.

No guy ever got rich by sitting on his rear waiting for money to strike him.

4. when you wrote about older men in their 40s without their money handled, it made me worry a lot. It's like what do I focus on? I don't want to try and learn to sleep with a bunch of girls as an older man, but I don't want to be broke either or lonely.

so its like I have to do both so I can be set in my 40s, I have to be good with money and women by then.

Fast track one, slow track the other, but work on both.

Go out four days a week, schedule as many dates as possible, tweak your game and fundamentals incessantly, and obsess over game if that's the fast track one. Meantime, be taking little steps that have the potential to grow into something much larger down the line when it comes to money if that's the slow track one (e.g., gradually learn coding. Or Internet marketing. Or a well-paying trade. Chip away at it).

Or do it the other way: get an apprenticeship for some career opportunity with loads of upside, and pull out the stops to do the best job you can, soak up as much knowledge as you can, network like crazy in the space, and turn yourself into the go-to guy on [some unique, critical aspect of the space]. Learn obsessively about it. Become an expert of some key part of your niche. Get known by everyone you can, and maintain an impeccable work reputation. Meantime, flirt with women when you meet them. Ask them out, schedule dates where you can. Get practice in while you can. Slow track it, but still work on it between work.

You can do both. But you probably can't fast track both. That's fine, slow track one while you fast track the other, so you're still making progress on the one, and planting seeds that can grow a lot more a little later down the line.

then comes the kids thing, do I have kids now while young and broke to get it out of the way? or do I wait until I'm older and better off financially? but what if I'm not better off and have no kids, but I'm older now?

then it's too late.

I suggest you get at least women or money handled before you have any children.

Maybe set yourself a hard cutoff if kids are important of "If I hit 42 and I'm still not where I want with women or career, but I know I want kids, this is the age where I say well, time to stop dreaming, and produce some offspring." Or whatever age is your cutoff age for that.

I think I have to get extremely well with money and women at the same time, I want kids, but not until I get both those handled.

Very few people ever get extremely good with both romance and finance.

There is the added wrinkle on top that once you reach the point where you are much better than you are, you still feel like you have a long way to go before you are 'extremely good'. Thus you might actually be pretty well off, relatively to the average man, yet still unhappy with where you're at.

Again, I recommend The Practicing Mind for thinking about this. Excellent book for that.

Chase

SZ's picture

Hey Chase, this is a reply to your last comment.

1. Is learning pick up and sleeping with a lot of girls just a hobby really? money is king we know, but I thought that getting and sleeping with many girls helps us in life with getting a partner and helps us have self confidence because we know we're wanted.

I know guys do get tired of it, but maybe I read what you wrote wrong, but I feel it's a little more than a hobby because you built a big business off if it and all guys talk about is getting girls.

Idk maybe you mean that making money is more important for yourself than getting girls because they don't help you in the same way.

but when I think of it as a hobby, it makes me think it isn't worth my time because I'm not getting g anything from it, but it must be important because there's many sites and videos about relationships.

when you were learning this stuff, you had to have known sleeping with many women was important for something.

2. How often do you approach now? I know you're super busy and have been the past few years, and how do you keep it consistent with your busy schedule?

3. Can a semi older guy like me with child-like math skills, failed out of stem, and has 50k student loans debt, have his money handled at all in the not too distant future?

4. when you wrote about older men in their 40s without their money handled, it made me worry a lot. It's like what do I focus on? I don't want to try and learn to sleep with a bunch of girls as an older man, but I don't want to be broke either or lonely.

so its like I have to do both so I can be set in my 40s, I have to be good with money and women by then.

then comes the kids thing, do I have kids now while young and broke to get it out of the way? or do I wait until I'm older and better off financially? but what if I'm not better off and have no kids, but I'm older now?

then it's too late.

all this stuff is confusing me.

I think I have to get extremely well with money and women at the same time, I want kids, but not until I get both those handled.

Thanks

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