Here's a post that's sure to raise some ire.
Ricardus and I were discussing men's tendency to want to sleep with sexually open women, but to date or settle down with or marry sexually conservative women - and how difficult it is actually figuring out how many partners women have actually had because of this. You see, women are acutely aware of this male bias against sexually experienced women when it comes to getting into serious relationships - and they do everything in their power to avoid getting pinned as such a woman.
"Everything in their power" here including, sometimes (okay, oftentimes), stretching the truth, leaving things out about their forgotten pasts, and, well, lying.
Of course, women don't think of it as lying. It's more like, "Well, I slept with that guy on vacation, so he doesn't count," or, "That guy was totally gross, I should never have hooked up with him... as far as I'm concerned, that didn't really happened."
It's a form of selective memory used by a woman to preserve her idea about herself as fitting perfectly into society's recommended mold: that of the "good girl" who doesn't give it up too often to men. Women who do part with their bodies too easily, society tells women, aren't valued as highly, so it's a big no-no.
But, well, women are people, and people like and want sex, and sometimes it... just happens. Of course, a woman doesn't want other people to know it just happened... at least, not as much as it actually has just happened... because that impacts her perceived social and reproductive value.
So, she stretches the truth, leaves things out, and, where necessary, tells a lie or two.
Any women reading this site may not especially like this article, but if you're a man who's seriously considering a relationship with a girl, and you want to know what you're actually getting instead of what you're being told you're getting... how do you tell who's whom?
Have you never heard of the
Have you never heard of the "rules of 3". Whatever number she states as to number of guys slept with, take that number and multiply by 3. rule also works for guys, take number he states and divide by 3.
keep it kinky
I think guys need to ask
I think guys need to ask themselves do you want mileage or drivers? Lets do simple math. A girl can have had 2 boyfriends back to back. Siimple math, they could have sex 5 times or more per week. 5 times 4weeks 20x 12 months 240+ per year say 3 years. Almost 800to1000 sex sessions. Now a dumb girl seeking a bf gets drunk and has sex with 15 guys after 3 years. Everyone knows 1 night stands are not quantity. So lets guess like how this article wss written ,1 to 3 times for 10 guys and say 5to 10 times for 5 guys each. So we are looking at 15 to 80 sex sessions verses 1000 times for claimed 3 partner chick.
Guys you need to decide mileage over drivers?
Interesting article, but I can't help think there are more variables at play you seem to be suggesting - especially in the 20+ category.
Age is a big one. If a 36 year old woman has notched up a 'kill count' of 20, then that's an average of just one guy per year since the age of 16. Obviously this is subjective but I really don't consider that particularly high. I wouldn't necessarily class a woman like that as 'wild' or difficult to tie down.
If a 21 year old girl on the other hand had slept with 20 guys, I wouldn't be surprised if she did indeed have the characteristics you outlined above.
Also, what about women who 'played the field' back in the day but now want to settle down/possibly start a family? There's plenty of women like that out there and I can't imagine they never feel emotionally attached or worry about what their partner is doing. They might not even be all that confident after years of being pumped and dumped rather than being treated as serious relationship material.
My last girlfriend (26) had by her own admission around 20 previous partners. I don't know what the real figure was but she was clearly in the 'confident/self-assured' category. She definitely did not have all of the characteristics you've listed in that category. Yes, she was sexually adventurous, but she clearly did have a strong emotional attachment to me - tears and all. I could probably have told her anything and had her believe me, despite her being highly intelligent.
It was also me who was very much 'in charge' of the relationship, even though she was a few years older than me. I don't really consider myself to be an über dominant man - although I'm flattered if you think otherwise. Obviously I don't know for sure whether she cheated on me, but all things considered it seems pretty improbable. I won't bore you with specific details, but I've got greater suspicions about some girls who rank further down the sexual experience ladder.
Not saying these categories are all bull by any means, but I'd definitely see them as just a rule of thumb rather than anything hard and fast.
Just like a bank looks at a past credit report, so should men look and JUDGE women by their ability or inability to keep their legs closed. (STAGED REALITY Blog writes about this)
To me the above is only possible if the woman truly cares for herself, and does not have sexual "switches"..Sure, some women can bang tons of guys then finally fall in love, but more often than not something is missing.. The reason she can bang so many guys in the past is because she was emotionally "not all there", and more or less already scorned, bitter, etc.. A mere shadow of her true self.
Think of our most basic and true nature..Perhaps the first time we had sex..
Usually women have sex for the first time with a guy they at least think they love.. Not many girls are in a hurry to get banged by anybody.
Now over time, many girls can become abused, scorned, hurt, influenced by media etc, and they will drift away from their true nature, which is attaching sex to love.
While women CAN physically have casual sex over the years and it does not destroy them, inside they are never truly content with this..A very small % that might have underwent abuse/are bipolar/repeatedly hurt can block out their natural female emotions as a way to protect themselves.
Sorry, there are double standards..
One small example would be crying... Acceptable for women over many small things, not acceptable for men..I doubt many women would be attracted to guys who cried almost daily over any small thing.
I am pointing out that sex is vastly different for men and women.. That is how we are made.. Even the girl who says she has casual sex without emotions points out the sex she had was with people she was already emotionally connected to, her friends.
I have found that the most insecure women are the most sexual. Making a guy cum seems to be a quick fix for their insecurities. of course aftewards they feel like trash, or are so cold that they lack feelings completely.
I have NEVER met a secure, balanced, confident woman who could just have sex, get up, leave, and feel happy never seeing the person again.
Forgotten one night stands
When I was in college, I slept around. Every two or three months, I'd end up with a new guy. Sometimes there would be a relationship, other times it was a one time thing. What I developed was a sense of ambivalence, not necessarily cynicism, but instead kind of a deep resignation that whatever came out of it would be. After university, and a particularly horrible NSA relationship that followed, I became celibate. These were my late 20s, prime dating years for finding a partner and settling down, but I just wasn't interested. Then I was 29, moved to a new city for a new job, and I accepted a man's invitation on a date. Now my rule is no sex without commitment. And I believe I can find the one and be faithful despite having over 30 partners in my past. So many of them are so far in the distant past, I barely remember them and they do little to impact my attitude toward men and commitment. Thankfully, when you hit 30, you mostly start dating guys who don't want to ask the silly question of how many people you've been with, what's more important is that you're clean. Would they judge my number? Probably yes, and maybe that's why they don't ask, but the psyche of a person is only minimally affected by their past innocuous sexual experiences. .
My .2cents. Would like to add that the numbers, as you say, might not affect the psyche of a person, but only if the person is somewhat satisfied in life in general.
Low numbers can bring a person down, if trying to hook it's a constant validation of not being attractive enough, imagine inviting somebody out in that mindset. whence why hobbies, activities and friendly events are basically prescribed to anybody that's stuck in this, to try to give a sense of fulfillment that comes out from other sources besides sex, acceptance and the basic wanting of feeling loved
Now that your 30 and hit the
Now that your 30 and hit the wall you have all these rules. 30 year old women that were never married cannot fool me. You have the worst baggage and are the most controlling even though I could easily pull a much younger girl with half the headache. No sex without commitment lol where back in the day you cough it up after a 4 Loco. But your correct wack beta men with no experience will not question your past.
# of partners
This is so right on. You just took me through the different phases of my life and explained why I look at things the way I do. You are brilliant. Thank you!
This is a super helpful
This is a super helpful comment. I also think that the types described by chase are more of "ideal types" than any thing, that is in real life women can have various "percentages" of the above ideal types and one would have to choose, depending on his preferences
Also, I feel the progression into various types, based only on experience is perhaps not completely accurate. Experience is more likely to be one of many factors along with her general personality traits.
So perhaps a better way to go about things would be to say, if you ever encounter a girl who has characteristics of type 3, run away fast, regardless of how much exp she might or might not have had in the past.
Very interesting article! imo
Very interesting article!
imo the first three categories seems quite accurate, at least from what I have seen my self. However, I think the last one is a bit fuzzy. 20+... I can imagine that a lot of girls reach this number (at least the ones who have not been in so many long relationships) before they are 30. What is the average anyway, for say a 25 year old?
Anyway, I have a question regarding what AI pointed out about women that "played the field" before, but now wants to settle. I am currently dating one of those for a few months. Do you have any thoughts regarding this type of women?
I am asking because we talked a bit about how many partners and stuff each other had, and she told me that she had about 18 her first year at university. I got a bit freaked out by that, however that is now 3 years ago (also an argument she used), and she says she is nothing like that now. We talked a bit more about it, and I arrived at the conclusion that she must at least have slept with 25 guys (she is 23 now). I for sure did not like it, but again I like this girl and I do want to believe that girls can change.
I think it would be interesting to know more about this type of women, because I have a feeling there are a lot of them out there, wherever they admit that they had "that many guys" or serve you a white lie;)
Many girls who reach this level are not the sexually and emotionally confident vixens that chase has described in this article. Oftentimes when we rack up so many sexual partners, we're lacking in some confidence or self respect. It can also be a newfound freedom thing (like being fresh of to uni) or trying to prove something. I know I picked up a good many when I got out of an abusive relationship, because all I'd heard for 4 years was "Who else would ever want that—want you? You're so lucky to have me." Turns out there were 13 gentlemen who were quite happy to have me. It made me feel a good deal better.
There could be any number of reasons she had that many partners. If it still makes you that uncomfortable, talk about the WHY. Otherwise? If you can accept that, it sounds to me like she's done counting for a while (;
Great article and thank you for this method
Hi, Thank you for posting this...This is brilliant and from the looks of it, very true...As I went down each category, thought back to women I had been with who fell into each of those...and you are very accurate on your descriptions...
I even had a girl who was a virgin when I met her, a couple years later we got back together and she was already in category two...Same girl, but the differences were there as you described.
Now, I believe that this matrix can also apply to men...I feel I am at stage 3 right now with a total of 14 partners in my lifetime...Yes, I do carry a lot of the angry and bitterness traits as you describe...
I came online searching for answers...Recently my ex-fiance left me...she did it in one of the most cold-hearted ways to me...She just up and left...no words...never really told me why...just completely cut me out of her life and moved on...
This woman falls in your category 4...I was so in love with her while I was with her...she treated me so well...Loved me for me...and then boom, one day she was gone...poof...literally just gone...I've never really had anyone leave that way and it hurt so bad, so I needed answers...
Thanks to your matrix, I think I got my answers....I hope to never be with a stage 3 woman or stage 4 ever again...Just way to many partners for me...Personally, I'd like the first one the best...but I'm 31 years old...where do I find a girl like that...Unless they're 18, I dont see a lot nowdays that can fall into that category...anyway, wish me luck!
I think it's bullshit that
I think it's bullshit that you go on about having sex with gazillions of women but then write this article about how slutty women are untrustworthy and to be avoided.
And here folks is an a perfect example of a Angry/ Cyncal Woman
Sorry you took it the wrong way but in actuality the article was unbiased towards women with many sexual partners; and if you view it as I think it's meant to be viewed: with an understanding that its only theoretical, as a discussion on human behavior, with a filter, because human beings are so varied, then you could ascertain some insights and ideas that possibly never previously occurred to you. Not stating this with judgement, assuming you are "bitter" or covering anything up. In undisputed objectivity many women are in fact "covering up" details about their sexual past, but I wouldn't in any way leap to judge you to that point, the other reply was immature.
To disprove you're argument, the article praised the women with 20 plus partners and only abased those who were in "stage 3" because of negativity; something that many healthy people find unnatractive in a relationship and of course a tendancy toward infedelity which is a take as it appears situation with women: theyre all different and the writer bases this on a scientific theory while also plainly stating the source is obscure and therefore unreliable. I will say though that it makes a decent amount of sense, and that many men, myself included, question the number of partners with the idea that a lower number of partners means a better chance of faithfulness as (if not our main priority) one of our top concerns. It's my theory that this is also genetic and why men typically try to settle with non-promiscuous ladies. It's a gut instinct, our mammal intuition goal for a strong family in hopes of healthy, happy and stress-free survival. Stress kills. And the article doesn't judge anyone, as a matter of fact it is given with an open mentality. We all want what we want, or we don't know what we want until we find it. That's all love and romance is to me.
sluts vs studs
The reason women who have alot of sex are scornd and men whom have alot are respected, men have to work much harder at getting sex while any decent looking woman can easily walk up to a random guy at a bar and get laid.
Don't oversimplify, please,
Don't oversimplify, please, because such simplifications are the root case of all that bullshit and flame wars out there. There is more to it than just getting laid like security, preferences, social opinion etc.
Yes, that's called double
Yes, that's called double standard.
I've done it all.
Just reading through some old posts for tips and came across this.
I think that women scale by age on this. A 50 year old who didn't marry could have 13 partners by the scaling logic and be category 3 and be sweet as an angel.
There's also time factors. Length between partners or wild old days. I think phases come into it here.
That said, I have done 1 in the first category, at least 1 in category 2 and 1 category 3 and most certainly 1 category 4. As said above the 3 made my life difficult, the 1 awesome, the 2 interesting and the 4 was a adventure. Hence, the characteristics (mixing and matching) are spot on!
P.s. I miss category 4 girls. Man, they are fun!
Really accurate article
I came online looking for answers......Coming from a "traditional catholic country" this subject is highly important when deciding to share your life with the woman on your life. I thought I found mine, a true lady that in the 1st date told me that "she doesn't like sex as sport" and that "she only performs sex when she feels something important to her partner".......well, the point is that after 3 years I discovered(from different sources than her) that she had 14 guys in the previous 3 years before me.....sometimes 3 different in a month, all of them international relations(italians an french)...internet dates......I felt deceived and cheated.....Clearly a 3rd cathegory women(angry/cynical).these women are for fun, not for falling in love with them....now I am completly trapped and I want to leave her, but I can't....obviously everytime I want to talk about her past and I highly its also important to know she says "its better not, cause it would hurt you".....I appreciate the honest tone of the article, explaining that for men these are not paranoid matters, but something as a "critical defense information" that would give us hints for not suffering in future.
Leave her even if it pains
Leave her even if it pains you. She has lied to you by putting herself across as someone who could control her urges but, in truth, is just one dirty public toilet. Get out now, before it's too late.
I'm reading your comment 8 years later..... This is me right now.
I hope that you have either overcome how you felt, or moved on to something better since.
I thought I was alone in my thinking until I discovered this site.
Why women are sluts and men are not
Women complain about how unfair it is that men are called studs when they sleep around, yet women get called sluts for the exact same behavior. It’s actually not a double standard though, because both scenarios are pretty different in terms of circumstances and consequences. I can think of at least four crucial differences:
First, sleeping around is easier for women. Regardless of how you feel about promiscuity, we can all agree that a guy who manages to rack up a lot of sexual partners has to have some skills. It’s challenging for men to rack up partners, even for men with low standards. A man needs social intelligence, interpersonal skills, persistence, thick skin, and plain old dumb luck. For women, though, a vagina and a pulse is often enough. Whenever an accomplishment requires absolutely no challenge, no one respects it. It’s just viewed as a lack of self-discipline. People respect those who accomplish challenging feats, while they consider those who overindulge in easily obtained feats as weak, untrustworthy or flawed.
Second, women have potential to do more harm by sleeping around than men do. Say a man sleeps around with a bunch of different women. He’s definitely doing harm to these women if he pretends to be monogamous while sleeping around. He may cause them emotional pain by his promiscuity. He may cause unwanted pregnancy. He may spread VD. When women sleep around, however, they can cause not only all these same ill effects but one additional crucial ill effect: the risk of unknown parentage.
If one guy sleeps around with five women, each of whom is monogamous to him, and they all get pregnant, it’s a safe bet as to who the father is. If you reverse genders and have one woman who sleeps around with five men who are monogamous to her, and she gets pregnant, the father could be any of the five men. And if one of those men is tricked into raising a baby that isn’t his, he’s investing time, money, estate and property to provide for a child that isn’t carrying his DNA into the next generations, a costly mistake from an evolutionary standpoint.
Our two basic primal drives are to survive and to reproduce, and promiscuous women traditionally make it hard for a man to know for sure whether he is truly reproducing or is secretly raising another man’s child. Men stand a lot more to lose from promiscuous women than the other way around. And it’s no picnic for the child to not know who his real father is either. And it’s a mess for the women carrying on the deception as well. Or just look at any random episode of the Maury show if you don’t believe me.
Since the DNA test and the birth control pill didn’t exist until recently, there were no reliable ways to prevent pregnancy or prove parentage for most of human history. For this reason society developed a vested interest in preventing promiscuity among women, and society accomplished this by creating the slut stigma. And even though the creation of birth control and DNA tests have made this less of a risk than the past, longstanding traditions and customs are not easy for society to break so the slut stigma remains.
Third, men have evolutionary reasons to be programmed to sleep around more. A lot of women roll their eyes when they hear that men are “hard-wired” to sleep around. But from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes total sense. If the two primal drives of humans are to survive and to reproduce, nothing leads to maximum reproduction like one man sleeping with multiple women. If one women sleeps with many men in a nine month period, she can only get pregnant just once. Nine months of rampant promiscuity would give the same result as nine months of highly sexed monogamy: one pregnancy. Now if one man sleeps with many women during a nine month period, you can get many pregnancies during that period. The more women he sleeps with, the more possible pregnancies.
So from an evolutionary standpoint, there are concrete advantages to men being promiscuous compared to women being promiscuous. This doesn’t mean that women have evolved to be strictly monogamous. Women have evolved to be somewhat promiscuous too, something men badly underestimate. However they haven’t evolved to be as rampantly promiscuous as men.
Fourth, promiscuity poses more risk to women than to men. A woman has more to lose from choosing bad sex partners than a man does. She’s the one who gets stuck with going through a pregnancy and taking care of a baby alone if she chooses a deadbeat. For this reason, promiscuous women throughout history have historically been viewed as being a vastly more irresponsible risk takers than promiscuous men, who rightly or wrongly could always run away from the consequences of unwanted pregnancies easier than women could.
These four reasons explain why the longstanding tradition came about of men being rewarded for multiple partners while women get socially punished for similar promiscuity. Of course all this is gradually changing, but we’re up against millenia of evolutionary and cultural conditioning here, so don’t expect any dramatic overnight reversals.
Understand that I’m just explaining why the double standard came into existence and not condoning or condemning it. This is not an attempt to pass judgment or be self-righteous in any way. It’s just an explanation of why the two conditions are treated differently.
Women are sluts and men are not
Imagine this; there is a key that opens all locks in the world. It's a great key right? Now visualize a lock that opens to all keys, it's a bad lock. ;)
Your observations are mostly
Your observations are mostly correct even though I personally do not like them as a woman. Still there are things that women gain from promiscuity - improved genetic material. There are things such as sperm fighting/sperm concurrence and other things. And since paternity testing exists there is no logic reason for a society to employ slut shaming ever again.
During my life I have met and talked to many people - men and women alike. Also men can become attached from sex while some ladies don't. For me it really depends on my partner - if I cannot see him as my equal I could hook up with him twice a week and still don't give a damn. I like a good challenge but in the end I want someone who can keep up mentally but emotionally with me both. Someone who can appreciate me for who I am. I became more conservative over the years but I still consider experience something that can be worthy. I'd clearly prefer a partner who has had his time of playing around and who is ready to settle instead of someone who never went wild and cheats on me later.
"Still there are things that women gain from promiscuity - improved genetic material." This is not a thing. Not in any context. Genetic material does not improve with sleeping around. You are making up bullshit to justify your promiscuous and damaged world view. Also, If I found out that a girl I potentially liked had slept with a man she didn't even respect for a hookup I wouldn't glance twice at her. Finally, if you read the above you would realize that "experience" is not worthy. It is negative in this context. Sex and love is the one category in which no experience can get you the job.
Applies to sexual feelings only
I had only (admitted 20 partners) who martched the description well. But, when I triggered her emotional feelings, she was back in the naive category ( probably the 2nd love.) As far as straying is concerned, this depends on sexual market value as well as numbers, even with high numbers, she won't stray if your better than her alternatives.
Not to be mean but going from unexperienced and shy to experienced and confident is true for basically anything new humans, females and males alike, take up. This is a really generalizing post and in my opinion doesn't help people to deal with relationship Problems at all. You always got to look at the individual situation. And they only make sense for 25 year old women maybe. I have to agree that an unusually high number of sexual partners in both males and females can mean trouble a lot of the time but as I said it is pretty pointless to generalize like that. It makes me sad that some people would use such categories for dating. Please never forget you have a Human being in front of you and not a number. Follow your Heart but don't be naive :).
Third type !!! Run Run Run Far away
I think I know you Lisa !! ;p
Thank you for posting this...This is brilliant and very true!
I just brook up with a weirdo 3rd category girl, I was laughing while reading, she is almost 95% as mentioned above + she still texting faking dramas ! I never reply back since last month... when I use to reply I find out she is faking things to have me back! but the thing is i know she dont want me at the same time !!!!
I been with too many ! She is someone special! She though when we first meet that it's "cool" to talk about how her "exs" and how they used to f**k her !!
Saw a video of her having it with one of her "Exs" !! She keep things from previous life and comparing it all with me !!! That was funny and crazy she never happy and she was happy at the same time?? U just can't tell who the heck is she .... All the blame on u whatever she do wrong u are the reason for her to do so !!!
Here is One of her crazy stuff , I Cough her playing with the pregnancy test ! she was trying to make it show positive !! I found a long list of guys on her room with my name last !!
She don't Knw if she love me or heat me !! She strongly believe sex is nothing to do with love !!!!
Nothing called romance or nice talk !! She been throw all of that and it's boring for her !!!
She had too many !! Once she mentioned that her "gay" brother use to compete with her who can hock up with more guys over summer !! They both did well !
After almost three months of the relation She realised that she shouldn't be telling me those things !!
Well was too late I already was thinking how to leave politely, cos we were doing the same course sadly ... No way for me to "Run"!
Just wanted to add that , there is no need to ask a girl whether she been with "too many " you can tell from her "skin" her "vagina " and the way she behave!
I really had the most bad experience! she did effect on me and the way I trust ..... I won get involve in any relation soon .... As that won't be healthy for my partner... I got a phobia from her behaviour...
It was a big day when I brook up with her :) smiles back friends back life started to be as healthy as it was and more ...
listen "do not risk it for a biscuit" with suck kind of girls !! Unless u are worries than her ..
With all my respect to the girls who are not included above! the good girls out there who are the mum of our future kids, who have no time to be hanging round night out or looking for guys as they have higher and better aims for thier life ... i strongly believe those type get a good guys who will find her and be proud to have her as his second half.... <3
It's all depens on how well the girl brought up !! If the environment she brought up in , dose not care how many she had !!! She will end up under one of the above four types !!
If she is educated enough "brought up well " she will relies without a need to go throe hard time , and no need for her to be used as an object to gain the experience !
“Experience is a comb that life gives you after you lose your hair" ;)
All the best :)
Genes: the hidden agenda
I have been gathering my own informational research data and kind of putting the whole puzzle together. The information here is absolutely valid and he seems to have done his research as well. That being said the only thing missing factors would be a woman's age and time frames between sex acts. Others have pointed this out earlier.
I would also like to add some of the games that mother nature plays on us well. I think men are definitely looking for two types of women. They would gladly bed as many sluts as they could find or as many who would let them. Men will also keep a special place in their heart when they ate ready for a girl who is relating love and sex. Two separate but equal agendas that have genetic advantages.
Science has shown that men with good genes and promiscuous do not need to fall in love or develop long term relationships simply because they don't have to. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk free. This type of male usually dose not even have the skills for a deep long tem relationship because he not force to acquire them by women.
Here is a genetic strategy example that mother nature could play on the unsuspecting. A man finds an mentally unstable, beautiful, uneducated , slut , but accidentally gets her pregnant. Now he decides to step up and be a great father but learns a valuable lesson about women because of all the drama from the child's mother. Upon learning his lesson he vows never to hook up with a woman like this again and finds a less attractive but finds stable wife who cannot have children. So now we have at least 3 parents in the picture. We have a bad mother with good genes, father with great genes and improving parenting skills, and finally a step mom with ok genes but great ethics; a child that has great genes a steadily improving father and new improve step mom as well as the genetic mom.
Now let's take the same scenario and apply it to a young woman. She chooses to finally settle down with a man that is a great father and husband but his genetics are not so good. All thee of the children are healthy but have some type congenital problem from the fathers poor genes. As the romance wanes in the marriage she cheats on her husban dwithe an alpha male who is a great lover with fantastic genes but not so good in the parenting department or husband area as well. What just happen? Mother nature has put two irons in the fire. The great father /husband is not going anywhere , he will stick around and raise his kids and she knows that. The wife could very well have a baby by genetically talented man and they break up, but she can handle the one with child support from both father because now she has a new baby with top flight genes. This scenario could easily be flipped around where she could have had child with the alpha male first then found a beta male to help raise them ethically and financially.
There are infinitely different scenarios that can be played out based on genes, careers, education, age, social economic status, you name it and mother nature will take that bet and gamble it. There are over 6 billion people on this earth so the odds are in her favor. When a species is just starting out you want to stick to the basics, like mating seasons and food supplies but after surviving well it becomes more complex set of dynamics.
You hit the nail on the head
You hit the nail on the head with this one. I see a lot of dudes I know do many of what you said, their either taking care of kid’s that aren’t there’s or wives cheating on them knowing their not going anywhere. #goodpost
When u say partners, do you
When u say partners, do you mean sexual partner as in intercourse, or just love connection in general?
When u say student, do
When u say student do you mean registered t as in attending, or just application in general?
Quoting Excerpts from this article
This was an insightful article, particularly the infographic. I'm currently writing a book, and will credit Chase in using a pic of the infographic.
I don't know I think you can have a mixture of categories 1 & 2. I have been with the same girl for 3 years and I am her 3rd partner. And no she isn't lying I know this simply because I don't care how many people she's been with so she has no reason to and she knows and because I know her very well she's not that type of person that would sleep around. I also know she is a very honest person. I guess since her number was 2 partners before me she falls in category 1. Her first partner was her first boyfriend whom she was with for 6 months and she never really saw him he had never even been to her house. Her second was a 1 night thing and the guy pretty much took advantage of her while she was passed out drunk. I can say she is extremely emotionally attached to me I know I'm her world. But as far as sex goes we were both pretty inexperienced when we started dating but in the first month of our relationship we tried everything in bed. I know that may seem like she was lying about her number since she was so willing to try new things but I could tell they were all very new and exciting for her as well as me. I also told her I loved her I the first month when I was drunk but a week later she said it to me sober. Technically we had sex before we confirmed our relationship but I don't think that means anything because we had been good friends for months before that and she knew I really liked her. She said she really liked me but didn't want to ruin our friendship so it took months of me trying to get her after we made out one night. We were sleeping together before we were dating but I think we were pretty much together after the first time since I saw her every night she would get jealous of other girls and if I had hooked up with anyone else she would have ended it and stopped talking to me. I think when a girl likes you that much they want to explore sex with you. Also about the control thing I think that depends on how much time you've been with them because it went back and forth with us. I have the control now since we recently got back together after being broken up for a few months because I lied to her. I only have control because she got very controlling over me so when she started talking to me asking me why I hadn't been talking to her and telling me how much she loves me and misses me I told her this is how the relationship has to be. That included us not living together anymore for awhile. I think the fact that we were living together she felt the need to control what I did. I know she didn't hook up with anyone in that time because she has two full time jobs and her brother said she would just go home and sleep. Also again I know she would just tell me because we broke up another time for only a day and she made out with some dude and told me. But I definitely agree with the sex=love for her. She would get mad if wanted to have sex sometimes and was romantic about. But then the sex is always awesome trying new things. At this point we've done everything so now it's just sex as usual. But all in all I think those two categories can kind of be mixed with the traits.
numbers don't tell it all
Frankly, some girls learn more quickly than others... or are just more observant. In other words, you can have a girl who's only slept with 2 or 3 guys but is already Angry/Cynical.
You can also have the optimistic and hopeless romantic. Perhaps she's had enough partners (and shitty experiences to go with it) to be labeled Angry/Cynical, but perhaps she's Trusting/Naive or Curious/Inquisitive.
Those are just a couple examples. The bottom line is that numbers don't dictate all. It is all so much more complex than that...
I was hoping that someone might point out that there are variables. I am currently dating and have been for a year now, a woman that I would consider to be a category 2. She was very open with me and told me that she has had 13 previous partners and seems to be genuinely ashamed. I told her it is not a big deal to me. When she was younger, she equated sex with love and thought that sleeping with a guy would make him love her. She is 38 and I don't feel that her number is that high for a woman of her age. I have no doubt about what category she falls into because she exhibits all of the traits that were given for an inquisitive / curious woman. Yet she also displays many of the trusting / naive traits. She has never once questioned anything I tell her as being the truth. She has total faith and trust in our relationship. This is quite a change for me seeing as how I have been through the entire gambit of women and always seemed to end up falling for a category 3 or 4. I myself have gone through the man stages of all 4 categories, with most of the women I slept with being in my stage 3. I was quite angry and slept with women and treated them poorly just to satisfy my need to get back at all woman. Just as I know that I have seen the error in my ways, I am sure that a woman can do the same.
This article is so accurate it's scary....I have the 20+ partner girlfriend and even though I think that's way too much, it's actually been one of the easier relationships. The only issue I have, and this is my problem that I make up, is that I sometimes don't trust her. That's a huge thing I know, but it's getting easier and easier.
How did this end up?
Bro how did this end up? I’m in a very similar situation
PUA's will destroy themselves?
After that article I had some thought and realized if that what Chase wrote is true, then all sort of PUA's will screw their's chances to get happily married. It will go like this:
1. Guys learns PUA's tactics.
2.They get laid with many women.
3.Some time later that will "produce" a lot of 20+ women.
4.PUA's wants to settle down.
5.Wait, they can't because women will cheat on them anyway in most times.
6.Women and men get older.
7.Most of them will get hurry to be married, so they won't care how is their partner.
8.Most of them end in boring, unsatisffing relationships.
Other thing; Succesful man is evolutionally supposed to make children with many women. Then who will support that amount of women and children? If the answer is "other, weaker men", this just shows that stuff is morally wrong.
Monogamous relationships were created for purpose.
you gotta read this :
Some interesting points here that seem accurate from my exp.
Serious consequences come from women who lie about
their numbers. This is a fantastic article and is accurate in many, many ways. I can speak from first-hand experience. I was married to a woman who withheld many truths from me prior to us marrying...these truths slowly came out shortly after our wedding and I can tell you that her number count, which she continued to lie about until the very end impacted EVERY aspect of our relationship and was the basis for our divorce. After almost 10 years of marriage, the divorce is final (after spending many, many thousands of $$$).
We have two awesome, beautiful children, but we're involved in a custody battle that still rages on even now. All I can say guys is if this kind of thing is important to you, find out BEFORE, you marry them.
You see, it really is a double-edge sword. Had I known, I would have NEVER married this woman, but then I would have missed out on my two awesome children who I love dearly.
Good luck in your adventures...I'm slowly rebuilding my own life.
A short and a long thank you.
This got essay long, so I'll put it short in case you want to skip the rest:
Thank you for the work you do in the way you do it.
The explanation, you can skip it.
First of all, I am not American. I started reading about the American gender wars about fifteen or seventeen years ago, in Nice Guy's "Most American Women Suck". At the beginning I was a bit shocked, and then he got to the point of: "Your critics are your best friends, because they show you your flaws". He had a reasonable point, so I kept reading, and so, I've been following the seduction community, the MGTOW movement and the manosphere in general.
I didn't think Spanish women were as American women were depicted in that site, but I thought the attitude may leak in time. I wanted to try to avoid the gender wars to arrive to my country. I guess we failed: it's easy for some women and men (in positions of power or trying to reach for them) to use feminism as a flag, and make it into institutionalized, legal discrimination of men. Instead of fighting for equality (such as men having the right to raise their kids after a divorce, or men getting help to find a place to live after a divorce, or free kindergartens for working women, things that cost money and time and would actually help someone), they use taxpayer money in studies such as "sexism in videogames" (for all they say about Anita Sarkeesian, and despite not agreeing with her much, I must respect her for asking for voluntary donations instead of simply taking taxpayer money).
Well, in any case. I've been following closely the manosphere for more than a decade and a half. It's helped me a lot to get to know myself and to avoid certain mistakes. Some sites (such as Return of Kings) are hard to read, though I still do, because you can always learn things by seeing from the eyes of others, even if the others sometimes seem to hate the collective you belong to. Even if they hate, despise and deride their fellow men (the hatred and constant demeaning of "beta males" in some of those sites is heart-breaking).
I must admit I didn't much like the "silly and cute" article... I understand you use that approach so as to avoid feeling intimidated by women. I perfectly understand your need to calm your feelings down and feel self-assured. It was still galling. But still, most of the rest of your articles I liked.
The reason why I did the long explanation is to say: of all the sites in the seduction community and the manosphere, I think yours is the best. Not only because of content and writing, but because of the overall ethical and empathic approach you give out.
You seem genuinely intent in not hurting your fellow human beings, men or women.
You also seem genuinely intent in helping all human beings become better persons: stronger, more self-assured, more hard working, healthier, focused, with goals in life.
Something I loved in one of the articles in this site was the "Don't seduce a girl who is truly in love with her boyfriend". Many sites on the manosphere would say that all women are unloyal sluts led by their "vagina tingles" and blame everything on the slut and the "wimpy beta" who wasn't dominant enough to "control her".
You are one of the few who admitted "you are messing with the girl's mind".
After reading a lot on the manosphere, I certainly know now that a woman who cheats is letting her instincts, but even more her emotions, take the best of her. She's showing lack of self-control. And cheating is no small deal: if you have a bad day and are a bit nasty said day, you are not overall a nasty person, you can be still a good person even if you have a bad day. You can always apologize "sorry I said that, I was on a bad mood, I'll do my best so it never happens again" (works better when you actually do your best so it doesn't happen again and you end up becoming a better person for your improved emotional management). However, if you cheat one day, just once, you are a cheater. There's apologizing, but the trust is broken, forever. It will never be the same. I doubt you will ever be the same. You had a set of values and you broke it. You didn't only cheat on your partner, you cheated on yourself. You failed yourself. And if a woman doesn't know how seduction works, and she's in love with her boyfriend or husband, something like that could crush her.
Thing is, if it wasn't for the seduction community I wouldn't know how lust works in women. I grew up thinking sex was associated to love. I couldn't distinguish "attraction" from "liking", and therefore, found myself at age 16 "liking" a guy I absolutely didn't like, because he was a jerk. How could this happen? I was smart! I wanted to like the good guys who treated me well! What was wrong with me, not liking the nice ones and liking this absolute jerk? I wouldn't stand it! It would pass, I knew.
Thanks to the late divorce of my parents, I wasn't very romantic, so I could wait until what I thought "being in love" passed and I was safe.
It took me years to understand that I felt attracted to self-esteem and security in men. Of course, I like the nice treatment. My logical brain likes to be treated well, but the part that made sex accessible (something I had no control over) closed all doors to men who didn't exhale security. I could "like" a man and not want him to ever touch me. I could "dislike" a man and feel "in love" with him. It was illogical, and I wanted to be commonsensical, logical and reasonable beyond everything else.
Do you know what my first reaction to the knowledge provided by the seduction community was? I bet you do: denial.
Emotional self: No! I'm not like that! That stuff wouldn't work with me!
I had a look at my only relationship ever, and though it took time for it to sink in, of course I was like that. I just had been thought to think only men felt lust, not women.
Logical self: Actually, your boyfriend behaves exactly as those people recommend. He was the distance gentleman until you felt attraction towards him.
Emotional self: But he's good to me and treats me well!
Logical self: Of course. But the one who responds to that is me, not you.
At the beginning it was galling. It was the female version of "taking the red pill", so of course, it was hard to swallow. It was even scary, at the beginning. Could I be manipulated into feeling lust so easily?
First denial, then fear that it might be true. Then acceptance.
Logical self: "Men also feel lust, sometimes they wake up with unwanted erections. They can be manipulated by beautiful women, only they do it on the visual side. They may be manipulated into doing things they don't want, or they may not. It's all a question of self-control. I was just caught off guard because of the lack of knowledge about my own lust. Just because sexual attraction is not felt mainly between the legs, just because it feels different, it doesn't stop being sexual attraction. Oh, well... if this is so, I must know as much as I can from this".
Once the first barrier is thrown down, the next ones come down more easily:
"Married women are more likely to cheat".
Emotional self: No! Not me! I'm faithful and my love is pristine...!
Logical self: Well, if those things work, I want to know why, because I don't want to be a cheater. (On to read every boyfriend-destoyer possible).
"Women don't have morals, honor or loyalty".
Emotional self: Not me! I am loyal and!
Logical self: Stop snowflaking. I think I am, but let's read all this info, so I can avoid mistakes I might otherwise be unaware of.
"Women count on men to maintain them".
Emotional self: Not me! I work!
Logical self: Um... I think husband works harder. Plus, I detect I feel a sense on security in the fact that he's there to support me.
Emotional self: Ashamed.
Logical self: I think I'm going to need to work harder. I do work, but I think my husband feels fully responsible for the breadwinning. It's unfair to him.
"Women don't have morals of themselves outside of religion".
Emotional self: mildly annoyed.
Logical self: I set my own set of ethics at age ten, without religious values. Generalization not correct. However, emotions still affected negatively by generalization over women. Get to work on that.
"Next shocking piece of information"
Emotional self: less shocked and more accepting every time.
Logical self: Let's see what I can learn from this.
Getting out of the mental control zone is, I think, the hardest thing to do. But once you pass the first two or three shocks, it gets easier with time. And you learn to challenge yourself, challenge your views and become better.
My youngest brother told me once that he was one day "gaming" a girl who was given him all the kino feedback (letting him hold hands and stuff), but she kept repeating she had a boyfriend like it was a mantra. Somewhen in the night, she said she had to go and hurried up to do so, leaving their friends flabbergasted.
My brother said: "That one knew, if she stood she would fall".
I felt respect for the girl. But I also felt pity for her, because if she had known what I did, of course she would still feel the attraction, but she could have controlled the situation in a better way. It's hard to do the right thing when you don't know what's happening inside your head, because all you can do is avoid mistakes.
I knew when I was 17, a girl of my age who dated a jerk. None of us knew why, he had nothing going for him: not looks, not intelligence, not funny, not even money, (which is an awful reason, but at least is a reason), and didn't treat her well. Seen in retrospective, every other guy in the group was highly insecure and unfocused.
That girl broke up with the guy on simply logical reasons, by exerting simple, old-fashioned self-control, but it was hard because se had feelings for the guy. We went to congratulate her because hey, girls should encourage not-jerk-dating behaviour. But good lord, if we had known then what we know now thanks to the seduction community, things would have been so much easier for her. Maybe she wouldn't even have started dating the jerk. But she thought attraction meant love, and therefore, made the mistake.
Now I know that when your reproductive instincts do not have a good secure man close, they focus on the aggressive jerk rather than in the nice guy. Which is why the seduction community is doing such a great and necessary job: teaching the nice guy to be sexually attractive will keep the girls away from the jerks. A nice guy sarging will always be better in the long and short term that the real, natural jerk.
How many times I had to dump a guy with "I only see you as a friend", when what has happening was "I feel tenderness towards you, I care for you, but your insecurity and lack of focus in life make me feel absolutely no desire to feel your lips on mine or your hands on my body". If I had known what was going on in my own head, I would have pointed them to this site as soon as possible. I used to feel so guilty for not liking the nice guys, when it was the reasonable thing to do. (Mind you, my husband is a good man, he's just also strong, self-assured, and knows damn well what he wants ever since he was a teen. I feel secure and safe beside him).
Ooops, this is getting essay-long. I just wanted to thank you for your consideration. When I read some of the other guys in the manosphere critizing women for following the "vagina tingles", I just want to scream "it's not felt in the vagina... it's more like a dizzyness, it's felt in all your body... it's a tingle in your neck and spine, it's like being drugged, it's really being swept of your feet, and if you're not taught that it is lust, it can get really confusing".
I was taught to be very logical and to challenge my beliefs and world-views, but maybe a girl from a religious background could be really messed up with.
So... you were kind enough to consider how the others may feel, and I am grateful for that.
If I have a daughter, I will have her read everything I can get my hands on, from the seduction community (if I have a son, the same will apply, of course). But this site will be my favourite, because to the information, you add ethics. A genuine care for other human beings. Empathy on how others must feel.
I just would like to know that you don't apply the "silly and cute" mindset on a professional level. But I have the feeling you don't. You sound like a good man, through and through. And I am glad you are teaching other good men to make women attracted to them.
I think the world is unfairly biased when it's men who feel most of the lust and women who are chased. I believe that, as long as there are men like you, the seduction community will create a fairer world. One in which men are sexually attractive, they will fill the role of lover instead of provider. Women will have to learn to provide for themselves, and men will stop having to break their backs doing all the breadwinning. I think it can only lead to a better world, where people will know themselves better and will constantly work to become better each day.
So, thanks for the good work. I'm just glad that people like you exist.
This was an amazing read. It
This was an amazing read. It should be added somewhere for easier access in the future (specifically the insecure out focus part that got me frozen)
I like how the insight is from the point of view of a woman and the battles between the "logical and emotional brains". It still boils down to mostly men getting out of their way to try to make nice guys be sexually attractive or else they will flock towards jerks (guess it's similar to really nice but insecure/overweight women who have no clue how to show themselves with attractive traits) It did scare the shit out of me how you describe you feel towards insecure men... We all have our insecure or no-go or out of comfort moments, i.e somebody says to take somebody out to dance, but I'll just usually say that I don't like to dance (I really don't even though I'm latin, then interrogation phase two begins). Is this gradual? do you smell it miles away, say crossing people on the street?
Good grief what you have going here Chase, I'm 31 and at the "lets just jump from a bridge and call it a life" joke-mindset, but between this shared knowledge and this nice community there is a bit of hope.
This viewpoint is what I needed
I read the entire article. I read every comment up until this one. The previous comments were helpful and I agree with their views and suggestions. So I skipped the Essay. Then I read the response to that Essay stating how great it was. So I scrolled back up, and learned some things.
I found this site by googling the topic of "what does it mean when your gf keeps lying about her number of partners". In other words, we never discussed this before marriage, but I lived across the street from her and knew she was in at least 8 years of relationships by age 25. And then she told me about her earlier experiences. It is simple to do math. So I always had a number in my head. Last year she cheated on me with some jerk, who now hits her and has 0 things going for him. She has really taken me for a ride. So the number she tells me is what I know. Then from her new bf I learn about another guy, before him when we first discussed separation. I stumbled upon that first guys existence when one of the kids slipped up. But she said they never had sex and I believed her. So I ask her and she says oh yeah I forgot about him... +1. Then I find out about another one +1, same response. So she is only telling me what I already know. I really don't care now, because what has happened between me and the other guy has pretty much ruined my view of her.
Back on topic...
Your comment let me see/understand through the eyes/mind of a woman(maybe like my ex-wife). Because even she would tell me over and over she was in love with him, but I kept telling her it was lust.. He would hit her, I would help her file a restraining order, then she would go sleep with him the next day. I think he is probably using one of these sites, which I really never knew existed. So I guess I am a beta and need to go to that King site and learn to be a jerk. She can barely support herself and she picks that over complete security and being with her children (she gave me full custody). So it must be the seduction part, because the guy is always texting and emailing her and she gobbles is all up. I hope she one day figures is all out and can separate the Emotional/Logic to make her life better. Currently that guy (that she now cheats on with me... lol) is playing into her Emotional self like it is just a game.
My fiance told me awhile back
My fiance told me awhile back before we got engaged that she had 25 partners in her life, I thought that was to much, but then I thought that she would be super experienced and open for alot of things, def not true. She's very good in bed, but not very confident like this article says. Def not open for new things, which bothers me. So maybe she's lying to me to boost her confidence. I love her no matter what, but I think she's lying about something.
This comment is way old but, piece of advice, run. Run very far away.
Soooo right on
Soooo right on
Well women nowadays are good at Cheating, and will always be the biggest Cheaters.
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