What Backward Rationalization is, and How It Affects You with Girls | Girls Chase

What Backward Rationalization is, and How It Affects You with Girls

Chase Amante

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Chase Amante's picture

There’s a little-discussed concept in seduction called “backward rationalization”, where someone attributes reasons for a choice or action after-the-fact, rather than before it.

A simple example is you bring a girl home after a date and escalate on her, nearly to the point of sex. If you then have sex, there’s a good chance afterward she looks back and says, “Well, we had sex because he was attractive / charming / had a good body / etc.”

backward rationalization

If on the other hand you do not have sex, there’s a fair chance she looks back after and says, “Well, we didn’t have sex because I wasn’t really that into him.”

In both cases, it may have simply been that you pushed a little harder to get past last minute resistance in the first scenario, and in the second you got winded and gave up. But the narrative she retains about why you slept together or didn’t is completely different.

Backward rationalization can mean the difference between her thinking you’re great or her thinking you’re not... all due to the outcome you achieve with her.

Comments

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase, quick question-what can I do if I'm a really awkward person? I can see people avoiding me sometimes because they don't want to feel uncomfortable around me and it makes me feel bad. What are some ways I can make my interactions with people less awkward (fix little mistakes I might be doing)?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Well, no easy fixes for this, so two most important things:

  • Study other (smoother) people and watch how they interact, then emulate this
  • Put yourself in as many diverse social situations as you can to learn from

Also... check out these articles on social calibration:

Chase

Stationarity's picture

This is a great article. As a rational man, with integrity, I struggle with this all the time. Young women will routinely misremember things that they said and did, in a way that allows them to not accept responsibility. They'll conjure up conversations, filling in my words, for their benefit. Very often it is to save them from losing face. Other times it is so they can avoid confronting the truth about themselves. To me, this is lying, but if I'm mad about it, it's some "loss of frame".

I had a post about this on redpill reddit a few months ago, asking if you should ever question a girl about why she was dishonest, as it seems pointless. The consensus seems that you just tell a woman what she did, and that it wont be tolerated. When she argues, you ignore.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Stationarity-

Actually had an article up already on women shifting around details of the past to blame you for things they're often to blame for here: "Beating Your Girlfriend at Her Own Blame Game."

However, I thought your comment was a good one and there was more to explore on this subject, so... here's a new article on it: "Why Women Misremember the Past."

Chase

Lucas 's picture

Great job on this site, guys!

I'm from Brazil and I'm writing because I REALLY NEED HELP, I feel line shit right now.

Here is the thing:

My gf of almost one year got atractted to a guy at college.
They had three classes together, and she started to talk loud and in a sweet voice with the girls to get his attention;
she would answer questions he would adress to the group (just class stuff)
and when he asked if she would like to look at the microscope she said 'yes' and got there real quickly..

I told real to stop, because I realized from the start what was going on, and she didn't do any of these things anymore. She became as quiet as
grave whenever he was around.

Even though she did what she was told, before that when I asked her if there was something going on she DENIED it.

But a few days ago she finally told me that she felt attracted to the guy and she wanted to play a game, trying to seduce him, just for her EGO's sake (damn!).

Well, that's it and I got 3 questions:

1) Can this be true? A girl with a bf can try to "just" seduce someone WITHOUT furhter intentions, like kissing and shit?

2)Her ego wasn't fullfilled with me, then? How can I fix it, to never go trough this again, with any girl?

3) Should I break up with her for this? She knew from the start she couldn't get intimate with anyone, of course.

It was more than 3 questions, after all.. And I apologize for any misspelling or so.

Whenever I look at her I remember she put some effort into getting close to someone, and to hide it from me...

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this, guys

Hope you help me out,

Lucas Andrade

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lucas-

Women rarely have a set end goal in mind. They’re experimenters… they try things out to open up realms of possibility and court additional options. Then, once they get everyone else’s cards on the table in front of them, they choose.

When you have a girlfriend telling you, “I just wanted to see what would happen!” that’s usually true, but there’s always some part of her that’s thinking, “If everything happens just right, I may end up with this guy.”

Most of the time, the guy will mess up or turn out not as wonderful as she was imagining, and she’ll abort the seduction and stick with her present guy. But every so often the guy will be as good or better than she imagined, and in that case you’re done.

Whether you break up with her or not… tough call. One I won’t make for you – in my experience, even if you tell a guy, “Yes, break up,” he won’t do it.

Re: your question #2, check out this article: “How to Prevent Cheating by Your Girlfriend.”

Chase

Lawliet's picture

Hey Chase,

Speaking of rationalization, It reminds me of a date I've been on.
And something struck me odd with eliciting values (8 questions you must ask her).

I'm guessing by doing those 8 questions, we match what she looks for.
However, that also risk setting ourselves in boyfriend zone logically speaking.
Her rational "Oh he's so good! He should be my boyfriend!".

Be the Lover
So I thought, Ok, a little sexual innuendos and presenting myself as a crazy nightlife goer should set me apart from bf zone.
But then she was an inexperienced girl, and sex talk makes her close up or even distant herself from me by looking away. I suspect maybe my exaggeration of crazy partying night life also made me unrelateable to her.

Sexy by nonverbal
I also gave her the glance out of the corner of my eye, in which she can't stop giggling and says, "Stop looking at me like that hahaha". Which caught me offguard.

Deep Dive
During deep dive, she slipped up and mentioned about a one time in nightlife. I asked more about that one time she mentioned briefly but she wouldn't budge.

You don't talk about yourself!
She complains. This also caught me off guard. And I started to talk about myself.
Eventually, that giggling of hers when we hold eye contact for even a few seconds, died down. Guess I mucked it up.

Dilemmas!

Hope to hear your feedback bro,
Lawliet

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lawliet-

Any time you’re doing deep diving (and eliciting values is part of that), you’re at risk of turning yourself into a boyfriend candidate if you aren’t being sexual enough and/or disqualifying yourself as a boyfriend, absolutely.

If women are closed to sexual innuendo, you’ll have a tougher time staying out of boyfriend land, but you can go for more aggressive touch and more sexual nonverbals. The girl may still want you as a boyfriend, but even with her inexperience she’ll be saying, “Hmm, I have a feeling he may not be someone I should fall in love with.”

Re: not talking about yourself, you should be talking about yourself just… in small doses. Share short anecdotes in relation to things she says, and use baiting.

Chase

EvanK's picture

I've heard you mention the concept of backward rationalization before (actually once in a response to a question I had), but I'm glad you went more into it. I had a vague understanding of it until now. A big part of seduction is understanding female psyche; otherwise, you can't adjust your game according to it.

On a side note, you once mentioned a while ago that you should not go too crazy with smiley faces and that sort of thing in texting. Now that emojis are so popular, do you think guys should use them or not? I still tend not to, because I think they come off as being very effeminate. Recently, however, I used ";)" in a text and a girl jokingly told me there's an emoji for that face. It made me feel socially uncalibrated, not using the emoji. I know she was just joking, but it made me think. What are you thoughts on this?

Thanks again for a fantastic article, Chase.

Cheers,
Evan

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Evan-

I prefer the text emoticons over the yellow smiley face emoticons, personally.

The smiley faces are just too friendly/silly looking, if you ask me. Better suited to a platonic or friendly vibe than a sexual one. Text ;) is more ambiguous, which is better. Better for her to be guessing your meaning than confident she knows what it is.

Sometimes you'll have girls push you toward doing things in more platonic ways. They'll do this if they want you as a platonic friend, or sometimes even if they like you but sexuality makes them uncomfortable. It's worth being mindful that women do this, and asking what a girl's intentions are when she's asking you to do things differently.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Chase, how do you stop people from walking all over you? I mean I know the proper way to stop someone from doing something is punish them some way. But I know I cant beat up on people who make me mad. Do I yell at them? What do I do? I sometimes want to get mad and verbally abuse them but I almost never had the mentality to yell anymore at people. I dont know its weird

Anonymous's picture

yo chase, love your articles!
Want to get some advice.
Seen many articles by many dudes here that say "warm her up" without exactly defining and detailing how. My recent read on Alek's article about standards is the latest example.

My case is when I talk to a girl, and she feels uncomfortable, her signals can be mistaken as uninterested. Similar reactions but entirely different reasons, namely value or attainability.

This can be she's very attracted by my strong presence, self verbalizes out loud to give me an opener and I take it but gives up after conversation dies as opposed to those interested who chase and try to keep the conversation up. She is not comfortable to open up yet.

This can also be she's not interest at all which is a value problem.
Or she's on the fence, which can be either problem.In these 3 different scenarios, they're entirely different. There's most likely more examples that I haven't encoutered yet.

Any advice on how do we warm a girl up in each one and how do we tell? for the ladies! ;) thanks chase!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

I'd recommend starting with Colt's article on awkward girls: "How to Handle Awkward Girls (Who Get Nervous and Antsy)."

That said, here're the quick and dirty ways for figuring out what problem you're facing:

  • Value: she's really nice to you, in kind of a sympathetic "Aww, I feel bad for this guy!" way, or in a polite "I'll just be nice and sweep him gently aside" way. Women are only bitches to the nerdy loser guys in high school movies; in real life, they take pity on them (but still can't waste much time on them).

  • Attainability: if she's acting rude, cold, or aloof to you, it's attainability. A common one in nightlife is she suspects you're treating her like a piece of meat and not seeing her as a human being... you're just a drunk guy spitting his game at any chick gullible enough to listen. That's primarily an attainability problem; whatever value you have is invisible to her because she doesn't believe you're treating the situation like it's "for real" or that you actually respect her as a friend.

When guys talk about warming up, what they're usually discussing is getting her ready for an approach without doing a full-on approach yet. So you might ping her with slow opening or opening her briefly with intent to reopen later; you might hang around in her proximity and build up social proof and preselection before chatting with her; you might just relax in her proximity and let her see you aren't some drunk guy going around hitting on everything with a pair of legs.

Or sometimes 'warming up' can mean just talking to her very casually and making small talk about the venue or whatever you'd chat with a guy about before getting into too much banter / deep diving / etc.

It's essentially you finding ways to get her comfortable before you seriously commence the seduction, so that she isn't kicking and screaming against it from the get-go.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

This has to do with the fact that women try to understand EVERYTHING. I love my girlfriend but why doesn't she just accept sometimes that things just happen and there is not always a reason for it.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Most people (men and women) live in little bubbles of certainty they wrap themselves up in. The closer a person is to being the captain of his own ship, the more he’ll find himself dealing with uncertainty and the more accepting of it he becomes. The less he’s in the captain’s role, the more he’s going to look for and expect everything that happens to have a reason and make sense.

Because women aren’t usually in control of their relationships, they usually spend a lot of their time looking for certainty in them, and trying to nail down the “why”s with the man who’s in control. It’s a necessary part of them feeling secure in the relationship; if things happen or the man does things and it doesn’t make sense, that introduces that element of risk or variability into the relationship that makes it less secure for them, more stressful for them, and ultimately leads to drama for you (where they seek to fix the stress created by uncertainty by getting to the why and feeling certain again).

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hi Chase,

I know from personal experience that you're right, failed escalations usually mean the girl will not want to see me again. But the explanation baffles me a little bit. It seems like given the fact that she went back to my place, made out with me, clothes came off etc., trying to rationalize is as "I never liked him in the first place" is very difficult.

Instead, there are plenty of other ways which align much better with reality (whether true or not). Examples might include:
- I don't have sex with guys on the first date
- I was on my period
- I didn't feel like it
- I like him, but I'm not sure if I can trust him enough
...and the list goes on.

So my question is, given how difficult and unlikely this rationalization is, why do women always rationalize a failed mating attempt as "I never liked him" instead of a different far more plausible explanation?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

The biggest thing women are looking for in a mate is preselection. Essentially, there are millions of potential qualities a woman needs to rate you on as a mate, it takes a long time to reliably do this, and it’s easy for you to fool her.

Rather than spending years checking each prospective guy out herself, she relies on the judgment of other women as a reckoning tool for determining his mate value, and by extension relies on qualities like his confidence with her and his ability to get her into bed – if he’s confident with her, that’s a good sign he does well with women like her, and if he’s able to get her into bed, that’s a VERY good sign he knows his way around women of her caliber (or higher).

If a man fails to get her into bed, that’s a huge warning sign in the other direction: he was able to get her all the way up to the point of sex, but then at the last moment something happened and the sex didn’t happen. She’s going to assume the man was trying as hard as he could (because why wouldn’t he? He’s a guy, and guys want sex), so she’ll then assume she must have seen something or recognized something that stopped them right before the sex act.

She’ll then look back at that and say, “Wow, I must have dodged a bullet there. That guy nearly had me fooled – he wasn’t preselected at all, he was pretending.”

At that point, whatever he did before that moment gets watered down and filtered through a lens of “he’s just a good actor”, and unless / until the guy can show her convincing proof in the other direction (like direct preselection, where she sees him with a cute girl or girls all over him, or she sees him get an attractive girlfriend), she’s going to assume he’s not a legitimate quality mate for her.

However, if she does see him, say, get a hot girlfriend, she’ll then go back and revise her rationalization, to something like, “Oh wow, he actually IS preselected… I guess there must be some OTHER reason why we didn’t hook up. Maybe he got sick, or maybe I did something wrong? My read must have been off.”

Also do note that sometimes sex won’t happen but the girl doesn’t leave with the “dodged a bullet” mentality if it seems like either a.) the guy was fully in control and ended it on his terms for his own (clear to her) reasons, or b.) she really, really likes this guy and one failed escalation isn’t enough to totally dampen her faith in him.

Normally though, the rationalization harkens back to that “dodged a bullet” feeling, where she assumes the guy was going for sex as hard as he could, but she realized something at the last moment and pulled the plug on it.

I guess you might say the rationalization then isn’t “I never liked him in the first place” so much as it is “I thought I liked him, but then I realized it was all illusion.”

Chase

anonymous's picture

Thanks for the reply Chase! This was a super useful comment. Cleared up a lot of mystery for me. Haha

Also, you mentioned that ending things on my terms might help avoid this problem. So what if I run into some sort of resistance, then immediately stop escalating, and instead spend the rest of the night just hanging out. Or I even tell her something like "We'll go as far as you're ok with". Then when she puts up resistance, I stop. It clearly communicates that I'm not going to try to have sex with her as hard as I can. We'll only do what we're both 100% on board with. Would this type of strategy help?

Additionally, in regards to the question of "why wouldn't he try as hard as he can to have sex with me?" I feel like maybe one answer might be because I respect that ultimately its her decision. And also, I might not be that desperate for sex in the first place. So I'm perfectly ok with waiting (this seems like it might imply preselection? Because someone who is desperate would NOT be ok with waiting)

saddy's picture

Hey Chase,
Can u please write a article on developing a great sense of humour?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Saddy-

It's in the article queue. Haven't been able to write it so far though... it's a GIANT topic. Maybe it'd be something to break up into a series, but I'm not even sure how I'd do that either. Just really hard to write... :/

Chase

Abe's picture

I think this article is similar to a researched concept called misattribution of arousal. You mentioned that no/little similar research exists. But I think there is a lot of study on this.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Abe-

Good call - that is it indeed. I forgot that term when researching the article.

Seems like most of the research on misattribution of arousal focuses on manipulating an individual's emotions such that he or she believes the emotion comes from a different source than it actually does, e.g., she feels fear but misinterprets it as sexual arousal, or she gets a shot of epinephrine but attributes feelings of anger or euphoria to a memory she called up (when in fact she called up that memory because of the emotions she was starting to experience).

A clearer term for this phenomenon for non-psychologists might be something like "misattribution of emotional change"; the individual is misattributing the reason for her shift in emotions and pinning it on something that isn't really the cause.

Chase

Reader's picture

You write for men, but have so valid points I can hardly find anything else on the Internet with so much depth (political correctness aside). My question would be: how can a girl make her man give her orgasms when he is so poor at sex?
Well, he is young, we both are not experienced, but I can't figure out whether something is wrong with me, or is he failing. I think of the latter. He is okay for me and I really like having him as my boyfriend, but I'm turned down a lot by his lack of initiative... The only good part of sex is not sex itself but kissing before it - when it comes to action, it's so bland that I can think of what I will do next during action, and I have never enjoyed it at all.
How can I make him make me cum?
Anything more specific than brush off kind of advice "just try different things and see what sticks" is welcome.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Reader-

Check out these articles for the 'tools':

The first article especially if you haven't started orgasming from sex yet. If you have, and it's just this guy who isn't getting the job done, then... yeah, definitely a problem with him.

The tricky part is going to be motivating him to do something about his lack of aptitude in the bedroom. You don't want to wound his pride too much, but you can't pretend like everything's fine either when he's not getting the job done.

I might say something like, "I really care about you, and I want us to improve our sex life. Do you want to try some new things and get better at sex together?"

Assuming he says 'yes', you can start coaching him with tips from the articles, a couple at a time. Pick out a few of the more important ones and have him start with these, and as he gets them down have him start adding new bits into the mix. And don't forget to compliment him as he does well and shows a desire to try, so he feels rewarded and wants to keep improving and working to please you. Operant conditioning and all that ;)

Chase

Mika's picture

Chase, I have read your articles on eye contact but I am yet to gain a solid understanding for what exactly sexual eye contact is meant to look like. This is one area of my game that I have been stuck on for a while now, and I am aware of just how powerful eye contact is.

To put it simply, to my knowledge there seems to be two different types of eye contact/related facial expression. One is where the eyes look more squinted, and furrowed, and the other is more inquisitive with the eyebrows raised.

The first look, I can understand how it looks manly and sexy, but to my mind this is the look that mid level seducers employ in order to look sexy, it's fairly ubiquitous among mid level players and to me comes across as a bit robotic and lacking in a certain grace that captures to attention. Just seems a bit boring and fails to separate you as well as the other look.

The other look - the more inquisitive and sensual look, which I believe creates a somewhat otherworldly vibe leaving you looking a man who has transcended the plains of every day seduction with all of its nuts and bolts and has reached a deeper more emotional understanding of life and women.

Sound all airy fairy I know, just trying to ring home what kind of feeling I get from each form of eye contact/facial expression.

I just wanted your thoughts on which type I should be employing. I may be wrong and have to rethink with style will be more receptive to women. But would love your advice.

Here are pictures of what I am talking about.

First type: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/95/6d/75/956d7598d4baa311f1ec0...

Your classical eyes almost shut look. Definitely makes a man look somewhat chiselled and good looking. But how approachable is it and does it do enough alone?

Second look: (Stolen from Vicky & Cristina Barcelona, great film for seduction)

http://cravencountynow.com/uploads/film_images/movie_stills/vicky_cristi...

&

http://expatspost.com/wp-content/uploads/vicky-cristina-barcelona-12.jpg

-

I may have it wrong, this look may be too friendly I don't know - but it definitely seems more 'dreamy' than the other look. More like you could fall in love. Is this look what people refer to as bedroom eyes? The guy look a lot more 'chill' and in align with the law of sprezz.

Probably a slightly convoluted and over the top post on a simple topic - But I really want to crack eye contact/facial expressions and wanted to provide you with all the variables that are running through my mind.

You thoughts would be appreciated, Chase!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Mika-

Yes, eyebrows up (like Juan Antonio in Vicky Cristina Barcelona) is upper echelon seducer. Squinting/frowning is more mid-level / younger guy / playboy-in-training, this is true. A more experienced seducer will squint sometimes, but it's usually just done as a momentary "Hmm, I'm skeptical about that!" humorous look - he's usually grinning or throwing on a bored/skeptical expression as he does it.

The trick with eyebrows up eye contact though is that if your other fundamentals aren't in place it can make you look effeminate. You'll notice gay men use this expression a lot, especially the highly effeminate gay men, and when 'regular guys' try to do this one it doesn't work well. However, if you couple it with a solidly masculine presence, slow movement, vocal resonance, and a demeanor that oozes sex and confidence, eyebrows up works really well.

If you're mid-level or higher, I think it's worth playing around with until you get it right. It'll force you to be more masculine in some other aspects of your persona to compensate for the femininity of it, but once you have that nailed it lets you look at women in a way that most (straight) men cannot pull off to save their lives.

Chase

Wolf's picture

Thanks for the advice Chase,

Just wanted to ask a few more things about degrees and college.

1. What other degrees are good to get if I am not good at math that make good money?

2. What degree can I go for that I can make decent money if I am horrible at math?

3. For the trade school jobs, which ones sound good to say to men or women so people won't think less of me because I am a blue collar worker?

4. What kind of part time job can I start with while in college and make decent money?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Wolf-

That's really all I got on careers and degrees, man!:

http://www.girlschase.com/comment/69879#comment-69879

If you want to know more than I know, you'll need to find someone other than me. Check online - do 3 Google searches:

1. What college degrees don't need math
2. What careers do those degrees get you
3. What are the median salaries of those degrees

Of the trade school jobs, "carpenter" probably sounds best to girls, since you're building and making things, and it's nearly artistic (could be artistic if you make artsy furniture, etc.).

As for part time jobs, same as career. If you've got the skill, you can make bank. See the same lines of work I referred you to before, and just do them part-time instead of full-time. If you don't have any skills, no one's going to pay you a lot of money to pump gas or man the cash register, though. If you want the bucks, learn the skills.

Chase

Sub-zero's picture

I left a comment about keeping your game sharp while in a relationship a few articles back.

You said we should keep are skills sharp no matter what, and I want to know how do I do that without feeling guilty or getting caught?

I know I have to do this because my skill will go away, and I remember that was one of your key factors in a relationship, it was to keep picking up women and sleep with them if you want, but still pick up.

I'm just worried because what of it try to pick up someone she knows

OR it just messes everything up?

I have to keep my skills sharp though.

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Sub-Zero-

Well, you don't have to pick up... you can just flirt with girls and take it no farther. Do whatever you're comfortable with.

You can flirt with girls you meet wherever, and just never ask for a phone number. Or take their phone numbers, then delete after. Or don't delete, and just don't text. Your call on how far you want to take things, and what you do or don't feel guilty about.

Now, if you feel guilty about even just talking to women and being a little flirty, then you'll have to decide if you want to try and overcome that, or if you want to just accept that your skills will decline and that's okay, because you're focused on your relationship.

I mean, it's not the END of the world if you let the rust pile up... worse comes to worse, your relationship ends, and you spend a year scraping the rust off. The world moves on.

However, it's also not the end of the world for you to have nice conversations with pretty girls whether or not you're in a relationship. Only the most possessive, controlling, BPD chick will get mad at you for a little light flirting you do with a girl you meet waiting in line. Just don't do it in front of her too much and make her feel marginalized or ignored.

Chase

Anonymouz's picture

Chase,

I'm replying to your last comment that you left on the natural article. My comment was about insecurity.

I'm not insecure about past lovers because of comparison or being just another notch.
I know I am the best man she has ever had in her life and that she ever will have.

What bothers me is my feelings for her, and it made me I guess clingy?
I just get mad at the thought that I wasn't her one and only as stupid as it seems.

I don't feel like another notch I just feel like I wasn't her first love so that doesn't mean shit. Even when she says she loves me the most.

1.How can I deal with this feeling of wanting to be a girls one and only guy that they ever had?

You said to date more women as one solution. So how do I date more women and keep this one?

She won't be on the back burner, she is the one I want to be with, but I still want to take your advice.

How do I date other women and have her loyal to me while I do that?

She is my #1 the other ones don't matter it's just for experience.

Thanks Chase

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anonymouz-

Well, that's kind of a pickle, isn't it?

If you're not going to leave the girl, but you've got an insecurity with her, I don't really know how you'd solve that. Only thing I can tell you is any time I've ever had an insecurity in a relationship with a girl, it's because I wasn't ready to date a girl like that yet - she was more experienced than I was, or whatever it was, and I needed more experience.

Only thing I can tell you is sooner or later that insecurity will erode your relationship and end it. When that happens, you can date more girls, and eventually you'll stop caring about the virgin thing (or you'll find a virgin to wife up! That's another possibility too). But you won't do it with this girl. So long as you're with her, unless and until you date more girls, it's almost certainly going to hang over your head.

As for how to date more girls while continuing to see this one, I'm presuming you've already set it up as a monogamous relationship. You can move things up in relationships (e.g., go from non-monogamous to monogamous), but you can't move them down (e.g., go from monogamous to non-monogamous), generally. You could cheat on your monogamous relationship, but if your goal is "keep this girl" that might create problems for you.

It sounds like you've gotten yourself into a relationship you aren't ready for, and boxed yourself in by committing to it.

Chase

Anonymouz's picture

I have a girl right now that I'm in love with. Problem is it kinda happened out of no where and she is my type to a T. The problem is since I didn't know we would fall in love, I forgot to ask her questions about her past.

I wanted to know if I should not date her or be worried?
She's in her 20's

She has had 7 partners before me. You recommend 4-5.

Cheated once in high school said she kissed another guy after her man belittled her all of the time.
(I don't know how to feel about this one because she didn't sleep with the guy she Cheated with)

I feel this will be bad, but she slept with one girl and regretted ever doing it. Said she kept getting her heart broken by men blah blah.

Has tattoo's if that matters.

Said her family is forcing her to be in a sorority.

The good is that she's never been a party goer, or club.

She likes to stay home and read, play video games, or talk to me

Only time she goes out is with me.

Never had a fwb before.
Never had a relationship with a friend before.
Never had a one nightstand before.

I'm the first person she's had fast sex with on the first night. She really didn't know how to handle the situation at first.

She pays for a majority of everything.

Isn't on social media like that.

Has only a handful of pics. Which are just of her face no sexy attention whore pics.

Drinks very occasionally and never smoked.

I bother her about her past because I'm angry I was wrong about her numbers I thought she'd be the ideal 3-5 range and have called her a hoe because of it ( I know I fucked up doing that).

Her past doesn't bother me much, it just does now because of what you wrote and her having a few red flags.

She has a beautiful personality, her past is not bad except for a few things.

I love her Chase, but I need to know if this is someone I can make a life with and not be paranoid.

I want to feel comfortable.

Thanks Chase.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anonymouz-

I can’t decide that for you man, you’ve got to make up your own mind.

If you want my opinion, she’s got 6 deal breakers for me there (partner count, cheating, claiming partner abuse, slept with a girl before you / not with you, tattoos, sorority). If I knew of even one of those, she’d never advance beyond a night or two with me.

Other stuff is good (no social media, few picks, little drinking, no going out with out you). She’s a mixed bag.

This is why you screen girls out on this criteria before you get involved. Once you’re involved, she’s the most perfect woman in the world, and now the part of you that’s going, “But wait, there are red flags!” is in conflict with the part that’s going, “Those don’t really matter – she’s almost PERFECT!”

That said, you know, the risk factors are just risk factors, they’re not guarantees of anything. You could be dating an ex-junkie, ex-porn actress with 5,000 lifetime partners and tattoo sleeves on both arms and never have her cheat on you, just like you could be dating a girl whose virginity you took who has a low sex drive and never goes to nightclubs and have her cheat. It’s just more likely that the first chick will cheat than the second, is all.

It sounds like at the point you’re at, you’re past deciding, and just want some reassurances, which I can’t give. She has risk factors which make her a greater crazy girl / infidelity risk than if they weren’t there. How you proceed is up to you.

Chase

Anonymouz's picture

She also started having sex since 15 and you said no later than 16.

Sub-Zero's picture

Chase, I remember reading from you about how money doesn't matter to women and you could be a pot belly bastard that makes $10 an hour at a gas station, as long as you're dominant, your girl will worship you.
I don't understand that because in this article you have about respect in a relationship, you say the following.

"There's no such thing as "equality"... not in a relationship, anyway.
And neither men nor women want it.

Ask any woman on the street if she'd be excited about dating a man who makes the same amount of money she does, works the same job she does, is no more or less intelligent than she is, is about equivalently sexy to her, has had the same number of relationship and sex partners as she has, and is about equal to her in terms of social and interpersonal dominance. Basically, her, with a penis. Would she like to date this person?

The answer's "no," of course... the idea is unexciting and a bit off-putting. He's no better than her... only just the same as her. What's the point of being with him?"

And this

"Now ask that woman on the street how she'd feel about dating a man who makes more money than her, works a higher prestige job with a better position than her, is a bit smarter than her, has somewhat more relationship and sex experience, and is somewhat more socially and interpersonally dominant than her. Would she be interested in dating him?

The answer, of course, is a resounding "yes." Just as men tend to prefer to date women a bit less than them - women somewhat making less money, with somewhat less prestigious careers, who are a bit less smart than they are, who are a bit less experienced relationship- and sex-wise, and are somewhat less dominant than they are.

What gives? Why do women prefer men better than them in a number of areas, and why do men prefer women who don't quite stack up as their equals?"

I'd like some clarification about this.

Thank you.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Sub-Zero-

I don't think I ever said money doesn't matter to women, or at least I hope I didn't. It does. However, it's just one of many factors.

If two men are completely equal in all ways, but one makes twice as much money, women will choose the guy making more money every time. But no two men are completely equal in all ways but money.

Income is one of a myriad of factors influencing a woman's decision about a man. It can also cloud that decision - if she's looking for a guy to hook up with, unless he's a conspicuous consumer from out of town or otherwise clearly out of her reach for a long-term relationship, her mind is going to start trying to figure out how best to get long-term access to his resources.

Money's a sticky, nuanced topic with women. The clearest routes are either having lots of it or having none of it. If you're not doing the broke vagabond route or the "money grows on trees" route, it's usually better to leave money out of the picture in my experience, since it's easy for any attractive girl to find someone who can beat you when you're competing in an area where you're merely middle of the road.

Chase

Wolf's picture

Chase how do I stop worrying about every little thing and making everything a big deal?

From example, I failed a test and am failing a class that I need and I think that I won't be anything successful in life if I can't get my degree. If I drop out I will make $10 all of my life! I need a degree! I need to graduate from college!

I make everything a super big deal, even approaching. I make everything super big and way more dramatic than it is.

Is there any way that I can tone this down and stop this chase?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Wolf-

Ever try meditating?

I find that when I'm getting too caught up in the minutiae of life and blowing things up into greater importance than they are, it's generally when I've stopped meditating for a while. So then I go back to it.

Every morning for 10 minutes, meditate, first thing in the morning. Before you have breakfast or take your morning piss, just sit in bed, concentrate on your breathing, and clear your mind.

Another piece of advice: zoom the lens out. Imagine yourself peering down at you from 30,000 feet up, looking out of an airplane window. If you were up there in the airplane looking down at this little tiny ant-sized guy down there stressing out about getting an F on a test or talking to an equally tiny ant-sized girl, would any of that seem like a big deal?

Zoom out even more. If you were standing on the moon looking at the Earth, would you be worried if some guy got an F on his test or was scared to talk to a girl? Would you think that guy's life was doomed because of that F or because of the fear?

One other way of thinking about this: in 2 years, no matter what, I will be alive and fine, and this situation will be a distant memory. It's a good way to remind yourself that one way or another, you will figure it out and resolve the dilemma.

Chase

JourneyMan's picture

Howdy Mr. Amante,

I hope this message finds you well.
Cheers on your if texts don't pan out article. It assisted me plentiful and also cleared my lingering doubt of what to do and when to let go. When in doubt, follow the process and all is smoothsailing. Brilliant!

May I ask for your insight?
If she does not pick up, what shall we do?
Secondly, what is your structure recommended for voicemail as you do for text messaging?

- JM

JourneyMan's picture

May I also get your insight on structuring these types of phone calls?
That would be brilliant!

Cheers!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

JM-

If she doesn't pick up, two options: text, or voicemail.

If you haven't chatted in a while, just leave a text, something along the lines of: "Hey Nadine, JourneyMan. Hope you've been well! Heading to an art gallery opening Saturday, wanted to give you a bell and see if you'd come with. Free wine and cheese there; I have a friend with tickets so we don't pay. Or if you can't make it, let's grab a drink next week and catch up anyway."

If you've been texting her and she's not responding (like in that article), voicemail's the way to go:

"Nadine! It's JourneyMan. Hey, just figured I'd give you a bell and see how you're doing. Hope everything's well and you are excellent. I just [one- or two-sentence story]. Anyway, give me a call back sometime soon, or else I guess I'll just check in on you later. Ciao."

As for structuring the call if she picks up, start the same as in the voicemail, and just change the "Hope everything's well..." part into, "How's the week going so far?" If she doesn't launch into a story, go into your own to get the conversation going.

Follow this structure after that: "Tactics Tuesdays: Making the First Phone Call to a Girl."

Chase

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