Social Value and Value Imbalances | Girls Chase

Social Value and Value Imbalances

Chase Amante

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social valueValue's a frequent subject of the articles on this site - we talk about ways to increase your passive value and value and attraction a great deal, while reducing "active value" (trying to talk up your value - if you have to say it, it isn't true), and we also talk about screening women carefully to avoid bringing someone into your life who's going to be a value drain.

Your value to other people - social value - is highly subjective by person, but it's something very worth being attuned to. Value assessments are a crucial part to our daily lives - every person you meet, greet, or so much as lay eyes on you do a quick value assessment of, and likewise everyone who speaks with, interacts with, or gazes upon you, for even the briefest of instants, does a quick value check on you as well.

When we interact with someone else is where these assessments really come into play, and where value imbalances raise their ugly heads - and make things really interesting, from a "what do you want from me, and what do I want from you" point of view.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase,

This girl has broken up with her boyfriend recently and Im taking your advice on how I should move very fast with her. We were talking the other day and she was discussing on how this other guy fancies her, she said "I still love my ex" and she also mentioned about how guys have to be her best friend before dating them.

I'm pretty confused about if I should move fast or slow. Can you give me some advice? Also what should I do to make sure she doesn't go out with this other guy, how can I look amazing compared to him?

Thanks man

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Hate to break it to you, but it sounds like you aren't moving all that fast with her, actually. The implication from what she's telling you is that she's more interested in you as a friend at this point than a sexual option - her "Guys have to be this first" message is a very direct statement of "YOU have to be this first", although the value offering may be a bait-and-switch; the statement is, "Be my friend first, then you will be my boyfriend," but the majority of the time you make this deal with a woman, she will not hold up her end of the bargain - you end up becoming her friend, only to watch her end up lovers and partners with another man who was NOT her friend first, whom she met long after you yet nevertheless quickly ended up together with, while you stand by and say, "What gives?! What about all that 'be my friend first' nonsense???"

At this point, she sees you as a friend or maybe a potential boyfriend - but what she needs coming out of a relationship is probably a rebound lover... someone to just take her to bed and make her scream her head off and make her feel like a woman again. However things have played out between the two of you, it sounds like she's decided that's not you, but she might like to keep you on for emotional support / as a potential boyfriend after someone else has satisfied her need for freedom and fun a bit.

I'd suggest reading these articles on being just a friend:

... and these on the boyfriend zone:

... to get a bearing on where you're at right now and where you might've gone wrong.

It doesn't sound like an especially promising situation with this girl at the moment, but I'd suggest seeing if you can use the right balance of preselection, scarcity, and sexual tension to try and reset how she sees you - and get her seeing you in more of a sexual light, instead of a "friends, and maaaaaybe someday possibly if I need it a boyfriend" light.

Also, before you get too emotionally attached to a girl who sounds like she's more interested in playing the field, sowing her wild oats, and enjoying her newfound freedom from relationships, read this:

You might also just drop her, go get better with other women, and come back to her when you feel like you're in a better position to make the right impression - once a woman's set in viewing you as a non-sexual option, this is a pretty tough nut to crack and pull a turnaround on - but there are tons and tons of women out there who haven't made up their minds yet on who you are and who you can be to them.

Chase

Yink's picture

Thanks Chase,you have really broadened my perspective on "social value" with this article,however I do not fully understand the article you wrote on "how long should you wait before sex?".For instance,I am in a 4 month relationship with an inexperienced,conservative virgin.We have performed every other type of sex(oral,anal)e.t.c and she has REALLY invested in the relationship(cooking,putting effort and stuff) but is just afraid to have vaginal sex.she has been telling me to wait for 4 months.Now my question is this:should I break up with her or keep on "waiting" for sex?.She loves me(its OBVIOUS) but won't just have sex.I would like you to write an article on this for guys in my situation but please give me a piece of advice that I can use for now.Thanks.

Richard's picture

First and foremost, great article Chase! I was scrolling down to comment, and happened upon this guys comment.

Hey Yink,

I know you addressed your issue to Chase, but I may be able to shed some light on the matter.

Virgin women are a bit tougher to crack for the obvious reasons, but you've listed her reason as fear, now, that could fear of pregnancy, could be for religious reasons, could be that she doesn't want you to just have sex and leave (it does happen, even at 4 months or so. Some guys really will wait that loooonnngggg)

But, since she has obvious feelings for you, and already participates in other sexual activity, I'll assume she's afraid of pregnancy.

If this is the case, try discussing birth control, and condoms. Explain to her that actual sex would be a matter of connection, it would be an act of love not lust. She's emotionally involved, and that's the side of her you have to appeal to. Show her that the sex would be emotionally powerful, and would further unite you two.

Hope this helped,

Richard

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Yink-

My advice wouldn't be all that different from Richard's... you need to sit her down and have a talk with her and allay her concerns, and get it done. If you can't do that, I've seen plenty of occasions where women who were virgins stretched out relationships with boyfriends for 2 or 3 years that never resulted in sex, and then within a month or two of breaking up with him lost their virginity to some random, sexy man who came along. The previous boyfriend doesn't always find out, but it's usually quite an ego blow for him when he does.

I don't have experience being in relationships with women without sex, so I can't give you any better advice here than Richard, but my instinct would be that the longer things go on without vaginal sex, the harder a time you're going to have ever getting there... if you can't get her there after four months, unless you're planning on marrying her in order to get to sex, it may well be time to (calmly, and sadly) let her know that it feels like it just isn't working and you just feel like the two of you aren't connected, and you need to seek someone you can have a more intimate, meaningful relationship with, and you're certain she'll find someone wonderful too, maybe even someone she cares about enough to open herself up to.

Chase

african boyo's picture

I love the article and agree 100%

I have a question regarding different types of value one can upgrade the ones im currently working on are as follows:
-good physique
-humour
-social connections
-money
-stylish clothes
-conversationalist
-skilled lover

Could you outline any other important social value offerings that would help in the arena of pick up

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Boyo-

Those are all very good areas. A few others:

  • Ability to inspire
  • Wisdom / amazing advice
  • Perceptiveness (you can tell her things about her most cannot)
  • Hairstyle / facial hair
  • Nonverbals (posture, facial expressions, movement speed, walk)
  • Voice (deep, resonant, sexy voice)
  • Commanding presence / ability to decide and lead
  • Public artistic accomplishments (a published book; art in an art gallery; a band; a magic show; a motivational seminar you give; a popuar website or blog; etc.)
  • The ability to create sexual tension and social pressure (which paint you as a high status / high sexual value individual in need of being won over)

... those are all pretty universal. There are also identity-dependent areas, like tattoos for a punk / goth / biker / surfer chick, or a high prestige job or education for a socialite or a girl who moves in the corporate world or academia, etc. - things that are appealing for some women but turnoffs for others. These are only worth pursuing if your universal value is already pretty tight and/or you have a very specific subset of women you want to zero in on.

Chase

cwongucd's picture

Dear Chase,

This is another enlightening post, it clarify a lot of misconceptions that confuse men. I am currently digesting the first 200 pages of your ebook (Prob would take me some time to digest everything...those 400+ pgs have too much concepts and details). Anyway, I have a question on your ebook (and your previous article) regarding to the Lover's Value: https://www.girlschase.com/content/does-she-want-you-boyfriend-or-someth...

I understand your pt that the girl would slow things down with us if she noticed we men have lots of achievements, advance degree, and an admirable career etc because it shows we can be a long term husband candidate.

HOWEVER, what is the difference between "a man who offer lots of Lover's Value" and "a man who is plain loser" ? I am confuse, really confuse! Because somewhere in your ebook and your previous articles, u mentioned that u will only tell your woman that you are a writer/author who travel a lot instead of someone who run a business etc...BUT, THE MOST CRAZY PART is that u will even tell the girl that u are currently unemployed (Or unemployed for a very long time) in order for u to get out of the Provider Category. I think THIS IS INSANE!!

Wouldn't the girl think we are a loser if we say that we are unemployed or have been unemployed for a while? I mean, as a lover, your job is to provide romantic experience to the woman. Your job is to be a good "gene donor" who provide great genes.

Wouldn't the girl think your genes are in low and bad quality if u tell them that you are unemployed in order to get out of the Lover Category? Wouldn't it make more sense if u tell them that you are a senior level engineer, accountant, doctor, lawyer, or business man BUT u will not stay in one location, you are going back to your home state etc? So she would think that u have good genes to gain resource (thus attractive to u), but too bad, u are not local etc?

Thank you very much Chase! Your ebook definitely worth my time and my money.

Warm Regards

C. Wong

Anonymous's picture

CW, good questions and I tend to agree with your assessment of this post. I have read many comments on various postings and pay close attention to Chase's replies and keep telling myself, "now, I have seen photos of Chase and he is tall, well dressed, affluent looking male." Most women he hooks up with find him physically attractive and will be more than happy to fuck him on the first date or accommodate a one night stand - which is great and I aim for similar results, so no argument there...however, your comment, "Because somewhere in your ebook and your previous articles, u mentioned that u will only tell your woman that you are a writer/author who travel a lot instead of someone who run a business etc...BUT, THE MOST CRAZY PART is that u will even tell the girl that u are currently unemployed (Or unemployed for a very long time) in order for u to get out of the Provider Category. I think THIS IS INSANE!!" - A guy like Chase can pull this bs off. I am not suggesting I, you, any other dude could not, but realistically, tall, good looking guys with excellent verbal/communication skills can bs there way to a fuck or just "stand" around and women will submit to you. Keep in mind, Chase has great tools, suggestions, feedback and has proven results...trust me, this site has made a huge difference in my game, BUT, he does not have to work as hard as 5'8. I know he likes to tell his audience, Don't buy into the medias story line or Hollywood version of romance..just plug away at my recommendations and you should see results. True, for a few...not so realistic for others..so, one must cherry pick Chase's rules of engagement and decide what bs works for you what will not.

I respect Chase and his team. I appreciate the service he provides..but he has only walked in his shoes, not yours, not mine...his journeys and experiences are uniquely his. I or you may relate to some degree, on specific experiences/challenges, however, look at the dude...If you are tall, good looking man and have problems meeting women..you are a fucking loser and do not know how to use the gifts that we all know, gives you the advantage....Chase has made this point several times throughout his site.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

C Wong and Anonymous-

That's a really interesting question, actually: "What's the difference between a lover and a loser?" It's actually something of a subjective answer, which is where a lot of your calibration needs to come in - you have to tailor what you convey about yourself to the specific woman you're interacting with, and it's somewhat different from woman to woman.

Here's a good way of making the distinction very clear: a lover is a charismatic loser who is of sexual interest to women. Take the sex appeal and charisma away, and he's just a loser no woman would want to be around. Take any loser with not much to offer and give him sex appeal and charisma, though, and suddenly women will want to sleep with him. Now take that same charismatic, sexy loser and give him a great job, a good bank account, and a nice home, and suddenly women are excited by him, but want to slow things down, because he's a great catch and the want to make sure they don't mess this up.

A big part of the reason why I stress that men focus on their fundamentals is because you CAN become a very attractive, sexual, charismatic man with a little elbow grease on these, and this allows you a much greater degree of control in your courtships of women - if you want a girl as a lover, girlfriend, or partner of any kind, you have a much better chance of getting it if she finds you charismatically and sexually compelling, but not so great a catch that she's torn over moving fast with you or moving slow. It's a balancing act of fitting yourself into one category, and one category only, for her.

The "good gene donor" is an appropriate way of thinking about it, sure. If a girl thinks you'll be a good gene donor AND a good provider, you're the man of her dreams and she's going to slow things down to make SURE she holds onto you… every woman dreams of having a man who's everything. Most women have to take what they can get, though, and if you have good genes but can't possibly work as a provider, a great many women will be excited to mate with you. Most of them aren't thinking of it outright as mating, though; they're mostly thinking of it as exciting fun. What you're ULTIMATELY going for is to create the feeling in a woman (even a very beautiful woman) of, "This guy is out of my league… but *I* am going to GET him!"

Women mainly assess high / low quality based on how in control of your life you are. If you have everything you want, travel freely, and have time to pursue the arts, you're clearly not in the same category as a down-on-his-luck hobo who spends his time begging for pocket change. She knows you must have SOMETHING going on that lets you live a life that she herself can only dream about… how is this man free from having to work for someone else? How does he get to travel around wherever he wants, do whatever he wants, sleep in, stay in nice places, eat nice food, and never appear to worry about money? Is he rich? Does he know something I don't? What's the deal with this guy?

In that way, when you are well-dressed and attractive (obviously not some poorly-dressed backpacker schlepping around the world on his bottom dollar), yet telling women that you don't have a job, and seem completely at ease with this, totally comfortable with it, not embarrassed, like this is something you SHOULD be doing, but actually mildly amused at how silly it seems, all these people who have to go work for a living… she very quickly decides that you know something she does not, and are playing the game of life on a very different level.

As far as walking in others' shoes… yes, this is true. That said, almost every man I've learned girl skills from was shorter than me. My first mentor was 5'3", and pulled mostly tall, pretty blondes. I had roommates in college who were pretty good with pretty girls (taller than them) who were 5'2" and 5'6", and would get either football cheerleaders or Asian virgins (respectively). The best mentor I had in seduction was 5'10", and dated all kinds of pageant winners and female athletes, and another close one was 5'6", and maintained near-constant multiple relationships with so many women he could barely keep them all straight. The only guy I can think of whom I learned much from who was taller than me maybe had a couple of inches on me, but despite his quantity, most of the women he pulled were the least attractive out of all of these men (his game was still very, very good, and worked on beautiful women as well as plain ones, but he just had some belief issues about going for pretty girls). That's not to say I haven't known guys who were very tall and good with women - but most of their game was more "gamey", I don't really know why… it seems like very tall (6'3" or 6'4" +) men rely on silliness a lot to get women, and it's a very consistent trend I see, both with guys of those heights who've studied pick up, and guys I've known who did not know pick up but figured their own game out for themselves. It might be an attainability thing; perhaps without silliness, very tall men are too intimidating for most women.

A friend of mine named Jerome, who wrote this article for the site: "Asian Guys and White Girls: The Secret to Success", is a short (5'5" maybe?) Asian guy with a heavy Chinese accent who regularly picks up taller, pretty white girls for one night stands… I was actually pretty impressed when I saw some of the women he was sleeping with.

I will say that shorter men who go for fast hook up game use a somewhat more dynamic, aggressive approach than I do - I can't move as quickly or as aggressively as the shorter men I know, or I blow myself out with most girls. Shorter guys can be VERY aggressive and get away with it. I have to be less aggressive… and men much taller than me less still (and more silly). There seems to be some sort of physical size / threat level impact on how aggressive you can be with a woman without scaring her off - when you're shorter and aren't a threat, you can do some very aggressive, sexual things with women and women won't penalize you for it - instead, you just rapidly build up their sexual excitement, then capitalize on it. In that way, I have some envy for shorter men - I generally have to rely on more indirect sexual suggestion, and innuendos, and can't plow my way through as sexually aggressively as my shorter friends can.

Chase

Nick's picture

Hey Chase,
Felt like I had to comment, I don't want tall beginners on here feeling like they have to act more silly and less aggressive to get the girls, in truth they don't.

It may seem that a lot of tall people might seem like they are acting silly to try and get girls but lots of guys of all sizes do that. They judge their performance on reactions, not results and keep playing the entertainer card. Lots of tall guys or any guys who study pickup usually try to get attraction from game, shame most pickup does not teach you how to actually attract opposite gender, just what to do when you have that attraction or how to get their attention.

I will admit though that if you have great size you can feel like you intimidate people, so people of great size may feel more inclined to act silly.

Anyway, all tall guys here who have problems and feel like they have to don on the charlie chaplain hat read Ricardus's success factor series, it will boost your results tremendously and help solve any intimidation issues.
I am 6'5 back then I was really skinny, twig-like even at 190 pounds. That was then when I put the success factor into motion and gained tons of results, now 230 pounds from lifting, still no issues with women( though I have noticed more respect from men of all ages) and don't have to jump and bounce around, more of a vibe between James Dean/James Bond, just chill and at that height I can be aggressive sexually within minutes of meeting a girl.

So don't feel bad if you are tall or intimidating, change how warm you come across. In my opinion you should feel good if you are tall. If you are shorter yes you will get away with more things but if you are tall and you solve whatever issues you have you have an even bigger edge.
The african male is a popular sex symbol, but they are also more intimidating so they can't get away with many things. The reason they are more intimidating though is the same reason why tall men are and the same reason both are desired by the opposite gender. They are perceived as more masculine and powerful than their counterparts.
Women LOVE tall men and also love to brag to their friends when they snatch one. Also a little added bonus if women like your look and you come across warm many will try to start a conversation with this comment"wow you're tall!", you don't have to do as much work(Law of least effort) though remember to compliment and imply your intentions if you want to hook up.

Example;
Your looking off in the distance,sitting somewhere, waiting in line
Women:wow you're tall!
You:That's kind of you to say, thank you.
(you then look back, or do what you were doing but only for like 3-4 seconds,this is crucial, then look back at her as if you noticed something)
You: Hey, you know you have a very striking style of attire, my name's Nick.

then proceed as usual.Also, all in all for any man of any size once you become top tier size traits become superfluous.

Much Success,
Nick

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Nick-

Thanks for weighing in - lots of really valuable stuff in this comment here.

Cheers,
Chase

Marek's picture

Good morning, Mr. Amante

This was something I have been trying to figure out and have been reading about a long time. And I have a question about friendship in this matter.

I met a girl, wanted to be friends with her to get comformtable around good looking girls.

If I provided my advices, emotional validation, cheering her up and basically being warm, kind and friendly "like noone ever was to her" (as she told me) while not supplicating, doing any favours, and also while she started to be cocky over the last year, thinking that I will always be kind with her, always happy to see her and talk to her just because who she is and suddenly stopped behaving this way I suppose she will drop me off her life?

I mean, I made a mistake, where I was ok with her exchaning my value for a little of her value. I am not sure what will happen if I start "charging" my advices, emotional validation and such. How do I even do that, because if I execute it wrong, she will just think something is bothering me or see what I am doing and drop me off.

She broke up with her boyfriend and had an extra ticket to a theatre play. She was telling me how she had such a HARD time to decide who to bring with her (father, brother, girlfriends, some guy) and it struck me. Because at that point she made it clear that I am not worth even to be her companion. While she knows I want to be just friend with her (which I guess she does not believe me).

My guess is to work it as a reward system. Mirror her, give her advice but leaving out the most important thing, if she says something nice to me then I should be nice with her for a moment. Then repeat it so her brain starts to see I am kind only after she does something I appreciate.

Is it possible to make her work more for a value I once kept providing to her basically under the prize? Because it seems to me that (as you mentioned in one article) it will be easier for her to go to someone else who provides same thing to her, maybe only 80% of my quality but for just her being near because over the time "we agreed on her just being near me and being friendly" and now I want more from her while providing the same thing. I think I am selfish with this and doomed.

For my future friendships I guess I should be more aware of how much I give for what I get?

Marek

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Marek-

It's always eye-opening when you start realizing how the value you provide to someone's life is being read and assessed, isn't it? Value is, well, valued quite usually based on how difficult it is for someone to get access to. So, you may in fact be providing INCREDIBLE value to her life... but if it's very easy for her to get, she'll take it for granted.

If what you're providing to her life really is something of high value to her, and not so easily replaceable, it's easy enough to teach her to value you more highly: simple become scarcer. See this article: "Why to Use Scarcity with Girls You Meet."

Get more going on in your life, become less responsive to her, and start declining her requests to talk, meet up, hang out - it's best if you legitimately have a lot going on so these patterns are natural and you don't feel weird about it.

This will actually lead to BOTH of you feeling the relationship dynamic shift - as you give her less and less of your time and attention and investment, you will gradually come to value her less, and as she begins to have to pursue you to get what she used to get much more easily, she will come to value you more.

Of course, it may also be that the value you provide to her is really something she can get anywhere (e.g., a friendly ear; a shoulder to cry on), and if that's the case, she'll just find some other person to fill that need.

However, if you're providing exceptional advice and guidance to her life, that really helps her a lot, and that she highly values, this is something she will chase after, and something she will come to invest in more to get if you make her - because it's worth it to her.

It's much the same as owning a business and raising your prices. If what you sell is worth it to the buyer, she'll continue to buy, paying you more; if not, or if there's a competitor offering the same thing cheaper, she'll simply go over there. How she judges the value will even be different from person to person; she may be coming mainly for the advice, in which case she'll pay the higher investment cost, or she may be coming mainly for the emotional support, which is very often a lowest-bidder scenario, and if the price goes up, her business (of dumping her emotions on somebody) goes elsewhere.

The business of being an emotional salve can be good for learning experiences when you aren't so experienced with women to get an insight into how they think and feel, but once you have it, serving as a woman's emotional dumping grounds usually ends up being more trouble than it's worth - and you'll feel a lot freer and happier when she takes those things elsewhere.

Chase

DAMKY's picture

@cwongucd

Look at this that way:

If you see a really beautiful girl, REALLY amazing looking one, but her personality are not really good (let's say she's really dumb).
You'll probably want her only for sex and not for long-term. You don't care about her profession, if she is unemployed or not.
In this case she is PERFECT for the LOVER ROLE.

Conversely, you see a girl that is so cute, smart, yet look good. She even have advance degree, she even have dream job. Would you want her just for sex? Probably not. You put her in long-term role (Provider, despite the difference).

You probably care more with the second girl (if you are at least intermediate). And you will move slower (what is bad).
That is exactly the same case with girls (though the look play less).

Chase just aim for the LOVER ROLE because with that in mind you can moves faster. That because the girl care less of you (for long-term and more of you for right-now) and she will be less likely to fear of implications.

Be aware, that there are few value forms
LOVER VALUE: socially grace, sexy vibe, playfulness, great-sex etc.
and
PROVIDER VALUE: great job, great profession, money etc.

I think saying you unemployed could be bad if you are just a beginner.
In that case just don't showcase you job if it's too attractive. (if you are senior level engineer just say that you work at some factory)
Saying that you travel is probably the BEST way to disqualify you as PROVIDER ORLE. (that is why it's usually easy to bed girl's in other countries). The question is if you want to lie.
@Chase, correct me if I'm wrong. BTW, could you please answer my question in: http://www.girlschase.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2887

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Damky-

Yes, that's right - if you're new, and your charisma / sexiness is still pretty low, you're going to get mostly blow outs and disinterested women if you don't fit the boyfriend / friends role, simply because that's the best you can hope for with most women.

The sexier and more charismatic you become, the more you can start peeling away things that imply you're a good provider, and the more barebones lover you can become to get more women, faster.

On your post on setting expectations properly - here's a response:

"Re: How to not hurting girls while taking it to the casual t"

Chase

DAMKY's picture

Thank you for your both answers :)
respond on the forum too, will try it SOON..

Petr's picture

Hi, I see my value as a man does not really exist because I am lanky. I heard French girls like skinny guys and such, but I was wondering... I am 6"1 and 141 lbs. and I can hardly find fitting clothes. I work out but I put on weight really slowly like 1 pound per month and I have 7,5% body fat. I understand that seducing a girl and have sex with her depends on many variables, but how important it really is? I mean is the overall frame matter or do I need hard muscles? Do I just need normal BMI?

I am asking because I want to set a goal and I dont know where it should be because I could waste time and energy if I set the goal wrong and was already behind the right line if I did not know where it is. I know skinny guys appear weak because they are but I wonder where the threshold is. Girls want strong men but how strong so I am not too intimidating for those 5"6 slim ladies. Because I guess being much bigger is problem too.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Petr-

Muscles do have an impact - when you put on muscles, you just have an easier time appearing sexual to more women. That said, when I was a very skinny high schooler, I still had no problem getting the attention of the prettiest girls in class, and of the very muscular men I've seen, there've been quite a few of them with fat and/or ugly girlfriends.

It's one factor, but it's not a cut-and-dry "skinny guys suck, muscular guys win" scenario. Muscles maybe give you a 15% or 20% edge compared to no muscles, but every muscular guy I've known who was good with women also had good conversation skills, a good sense of humor, good fashion, tight nonverbals, etc.

If you're setting a goal, I'd say get to the point where you have enough definition that you can see a little bulge and obviously have SOME muscle. It's not necessary, but it will help your batting average with girls if you put a little time into it (and plus, it's just generally nice to be stronger than other people - guys mess with you less, people treat you more respectfully, and even "authority figures" instinctively view you more as an equal than a subordinate).

That said, if you want to go further, you absolutely can; a taller (maybe 6'2") friend of mine with giant muscles (bigger than most football players) and little body fat (no problem making out his abs) I used to go around with every now and again would have every girl he ran into batting her eyes at him, and I had a shorter girlfriend at the time, who'd told me she thought big muscles were disgusting, tell me he looked "very healthy!" in a very admiring / turned on voice tone. I told her, "I thought you said you didn't like big muslces!" and she said, "He has big muscles?" and I said, "You mean you couldn't see the size of his arms bulging out of his sports coat? He could pull my limbs off if he wanted to!" and then she said, "Oh. I don't like him then," but I'm pretty sure if she and he had been alone together somewhere and he'd started making passes, she'd have had no problem putting her hands all over his "disgusting" big muscles.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase.

I`ve been reading this site for quite some while now, and it has improved my social skills and skills with women vastly.

Now the thing is i have a bit of a problem..

I am a decent looking guy, normal hairstyle with a moustache and goatee, i got my fundamentals and clothing strapped up well..

All in all i have a decent look and posture..

Now my Opening is excellent, i have no problems here..

I had a problem with managing the flow of the conversation, but after reading a whole lot on this site i am still improving in this area.

But the Closing is my biggest problem..

I have a hell of a problem with closing .. I don`t have problem, asking for the number or asking for the date or setting it up..

But the problem is that i can`t simply get the date or the number or anything for that matter..

Am i not being persistent enough ?

What exactly am i doing wrong here, that i can`t get the girls number or set the date up..

I open extremely well, i manage the conversation good, but when it comes to closing it, i just can`t close it ... I am not nervous or anxious or anything..

I don`t know what else to do..

Maybe i have missread some article, but i can`t find anything specific here..

Can you give me an article already written or maybe a step by step process on how to help me improve in this area.

Thanks.
Regards.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

I can't tell what's misfiring here from the description - there are just too many things it could be (women not finding you attractive - more work needed on fundamentals; coming across too friendly / too entertaining - need to tune down the fun and turn up the tension; waiting too long for the close - the escalation window has passed; etc.).

If you can provide some more detail on how a typical interaction unfolds for you, I might be able to help; or, you can post something on the Field Reports Board on our discussion forum - there are a lot of smart guys there who are pretty good at figuring out where you need to make some tweaks.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hmm... Well, i will write there as well.. Thanks for pinpointing..

My seductions and how they go ?
Well, for example, i was hitting out on a waitress at a nearby caffee just recently, before i wrote this comment.

First time i met her, she was just starting out and was really nervous, i did not say much, as she had a job and the caffee was full.
When i was paying for the drinks i just asked her if she was new, with her replying "is it that obvious". She smiled i just said it will be better with time and i went on my way.

5-6 days later i went there again for a cup of coffee with a friend and i made just a casual talk with her, how are you, what are you doing and asked her name and that was it..

And than after a week or so i went there again, and i told her to come inside for just a minute and i said: "Well it is a bit uncomfortable for me to interfere with your job but i just have to say something, you are the cutest waitress i have seen in our town, especially this cute mole you have on the face" and i smiled warmly.. She smiled back pointing out to it in a playful way.

Than i asked her if she would like to go out on a date with me, and she said she can`t, it would be uncomfortable, because she had a boyfriend.. At the moment i thought she was lying and persuaded a bit, just a bit and i fell back, returned and 10 mins later left the caffee.

I found out later that she did have a boyfriend of a 1.5 year relationship..

Basically, things go something like that, abotu 90% of the time, whether she is a waitress or not..

I think i am too friendly or to entertaining ...

Don`t know exactly.. What do you think ??

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase, I went through something a couple of months ago that pretty much destroyed my ego. There was this really cute girl I met from a mutual friend.

We heard about each other and had a ton in common. Talked a little online and clearly were interested in each other. I went home to visit family (she lives in my hometown and I live out of country) and I had her pursuing me. She initially called me to get together, suggested we go back to my place after we got drinks, etc.

Problem for me is I'm a 25 year old man with pretty much no sexual experience. My friend had already told her I never had a girlfriend, so she knew this and still wanted me. But i still psyched myself out. I thought I would just make a move and take her as a lover the first night, but i froze up completely and got really nervous when it was time to make the move. After spending two nights alone and not making a move, we were both very frustrated. A couple nights later I was with another woman who was 37 years old and clearly wanted me and I had no problem making a move on her repeatedly when getting resistance.

I think a lot of why I was so nervous with the first girl was because I REALLY liked her. She even suggested taking her with me when we got back to my place (out of country) and I think her really liking me added a lot to the pressure, but it would have been a great experience have her as a girlfriend or at least spend some time together.

What does one do about feeling embarrassed about not having sexual experience when with a woman?
I am so disgusted about this and will do everything I can to never let it happen again. I consider myself a hyper aggressive person and very dominant, so this really was a tough blow to me. All due to sexual inexperience from isolating myself for years. Any suggestions for my situation?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Sometimes the best thing to do here is to simply set a goal of "just have sex" to get it out of the way so you stop being gun-shy with the girls you really like. Most women aren't all that forgiving of men not escalating to sex when they have the chance to, regardless of the man's sexual experience - either he can do it, or he can't, and second chances aren't something most women are all that generous with in this regard. What that means is that if you're waiting for a girl you really like whom you won't be nervous with to have your first sex with, you may be waiting a long time - the women you aren't nervous with, you won't bite the bullet with, and the women you are, you can't.

If you're not completely averse to it, I'd recommend taking what you can get (within reason... don't go for a woman who looks like a pitbull or one with the personality of an angry hyena) and racking up some sexual experience, so that when it comes time to end up with a girl you really like, it won't be quite as bad. I know I for one wasn't able to close the deal with women I really liked until I'd piled up a little experience with women I could've taken or left first... after that, taking women you have strong attraction to to bed is still nerve-wracking, but it's manageable, because you're walking a path you've been down before already.

One that might be worth checking out: "Lower Your Standards (and Date Hotter Girls)."

Chase

Jimbo's picture

That's it. It's all in the title. You'd feel much less pressure to be your novice self and to rip off that bandage with one. You'll just do it and then feel lighter and freer to move on with your romantic/sex life.

N's picture

Hi Chase, another great article! You seem to have a great grip on how human interactions work, all your posts are very well thought. Have you studied phychology by any chance?

The thing is i don't provide much socializing value. I'm an introvert, i like videogames,movies,fantasy books etc I also go out but not often like most people. My friends are also kind of introverts which kills most opportunities for socializing.

With extroverted people i hang out just to catch up like once in a month. We've nothing more to talk about otherr than gossip a bit.

When i go out with my introverted friends we gossip a bit, talk about new movies,music,games etc and then sometimes we talk about deep meaningful topics.

I just wonder, these people go out everyday, WHAT do they talk about?

I've tried finding out but most of the times it's ONLY gossiping and stupid topics, no deep conversations or at least enjoyable ones (for me).

How can i provide more value and be more mainstream like these people, and just be another "one" of them.
Actually scratch that. Should i do that? Should i strive to become like common people or should i remain as i am?
Sometimes it's just hard being different even if it's better (more intelligent,wiser)...

I just think my life would be better if i changed like that, just a little, without of course becoming so common and boring. It would help having some needed connections and are essential imho with dating in my social circle.. (i'm becoming incomprenhensible sorry)

Being naturally the mysterious,silent sexy guy works great with seducing but seems to be problematic with making friends,being likeable etc.

Anyway enough of that it's tiring i know.

BTW i don't want to be the annoying guy but can you do an article on hairstyles (long vs short). I used to have long hair and ever since i cut it off i've been receiving 1000x the female attraction. It would be great if you could also touch upon the psychological element of long vs short hair( why do women prefer short, did it use to be different in the old days, is the preference a biological or social thing etc).

Sorry for the long post and thanks again Chase!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

N-

Extraverts don't generally like small talk all that much, though they do find it tolerable in groups, simply because the experience of being with lots of people is energizing (vs. enervating for an introvert). Conversation in groups where it's small talk is mostly story telling; in which case, telling stories that are interesting or engaging about whatever the topic at hand is are best (especially if they're stories that imply good things about you).

That said, working groups is not something you should be spending much time on to get girls; this is inefficient, and often actually counterproductive, as it leads to a woman seeing you as part of her social circle and someone to tread lightly with instead of as a secret lover she can pair off with and go have discreet liaisons with without her peer group finding out about it.

I'd recommend these for quickly getting past small talk and onto more interesting conversation with new people:

For men and women specifically, and friends in particular, see these:

And yeah, hairstyles - I've been thinking about that one recently, it's just a beast to do, and I haven't had a lot of time to sit down lately and zero in on a monster article that requires a lot of research / looking up different hairstyles / etc.

When I get the chance though, it is at the top of my list right now.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase,im curious about your thoughts on two topics.

What is your opinion on race and intelligence?Wikipedia has a long article regarding this subject.If there are any truths to the differences that races score on iq tests,how does this affect social value?

Also ive experimented with both sexy facial hair thats well groomed all the way around,and clean shaven mostly with just chin stubble.I get much better results with the clean shaven and chin stubble look versus stubble all around.Could it be that this look just fits my face more,and that its subjective based on a persons features which look is more attractive?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

On race and intelligence, I don't think there's enough evidence to take any kind of conclusive stance, although I find both the people who insist that there is no genetic basis for this or that trait to be ridiculous (they're making emotional justice / egalitarian arguments that don't stand up to either logic or evidence), as well as the people who state with any certainty that clearly, THIS race is smarter than THAT race because of XYZ gene (we have a number of genes we know of in the brain, but far from a comprehensive theory on intelligence or what it comes from… it's a very complicated subject).

An adult's IQ appears to be 80% heritable, though if you look at both white and black IQ scores in the United States, these have risen quite rapidly over progressive generations, which would appear to suggest a strong environmental effect - which is rather a bizarre instance of two different kinds of evidence apparently directly contradicting each other. There are IQ maps of average global IQs in different countries with a great amount of diversity - there are countries in Africa where the average IQ is below the threshold for what we consider to be mildly retarded (an 80 IQ). Racially, Jewish and East Asian people score the highest on IQ tests, and if you look at both scientific research and control of many large businesses and industries, these two races have disproportionately strong representation. There's a map of IQ scores by country here: http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=2812

Something that strikes me as unusual is that the IQ in Mesopotamia right now is only slightly above the threshold for mental retardation, yet this is where civilization first developed and where a LOT of the most important advances of modern society originated (cities, writing, a legal system, the predecessors to much of today's predominant religions, and a great deal more). Today, the IQ score there is low, and no such innovations are coming out of these areas - either the smart people left, were outcompeted by less intelligent people who were better adapted to survive in that environment for whatever reason, or there's an environmental factor that's suppressing intelligence in modern-day Mesopotamia.

There is evidence of recently-evolved genes coding for thicker myelin in the brains of Europeans and East Asians that races of other continents seem not to have (myelin is a conductive substance in the brain, and thicker bands of this allows for quicker communication between brain cells), and that might account for some of the difference, but then, if you look at a country like the United States, you have a civilization where there's a great deal of mixing between the races, and even most black people in the U.S. have a fair amount of white DNA (and thus, likely, a good chance at coding for whatever myelin adaptations that white people have, if this in fact contributes to an intelligence edge). Could be that's a gene originally picked up from Neanderthals - Neanderthals contribute around 4% of European and East Asian DNA from mixing that occurred tens of thousands of years ago in their respective continents.

Intelligence also appears to be a very situationally adaptive characteristic - if you took a bunch of big-brained but otherwise defenseless hominids and plopped them into the Cretaceous period, I'm pretty sure they'd be gobbled up by Tyrannosauruses before they had the chance to establish themselves enough to build up defenses against this, and would quickly go extinct. It may be the case that in lower IQ regions of the world, higher IQ is maladaptive - e.g., if you're a really smart person hanging out in Mozambique, some mildly retarded guy with an AK-47 who just wants to kill you and take your stuff has more of a survival advantage than you have sitting around trying to figure out the square root of pi. In order for intelligence to really be adaptive, it appear to need a relatively safe, low-crime environment to thrive in, otherwise it may actually be detrimental to survival and reproduction. In some ways, women even find dumber guys more attractive - e.g., the pool boy, the dumb jock, etc. Humor and other signs of intelligence are attractive too… but not in the same raw, sexual way that a dumb hunk of a man can be. I often act dumber than I am with women to trigger this effect; I can tell you it's quite real. If you act dumb with a woman, then let on that you're smarter than you are, you can visibly watch as her respect for you increases, and her sexual attraction for you falls.

Another interesting thing that may be going on is that environmental factors that make higher intelligence less suitable for survival or more suitable for survival can encourage genes to express or suppress higher intellect - there's been some recent research showing that gene expression triggered by specific environments can be passed down through multiple generations (that is, a gene can be turned on or off by the body, based on certain environmental conditions, and its on or off state can be passed down to grandchildren or great-grandchildren or further, until environmental conditions compel a subsequent generation to switch that gene back to the opposite state). So perhaps individuals in more violent, hard scrabble environments have suppressed certain genes that lead to the expression of greater intellect in favor of some benefit of lesser intellect (e.g., maybe faster reactions / response time / lower empathy levels / etc.), and individuals in safer, more organized environments where intellect may be properly utilized for survival and reproductive advantages gradually switch more and more of these genes switched on in subsequent generations as their descendants become more comfortable and at lower and lower survival risk.

There's a LOT of exciting stuff to think about in genetics as it relates to intelligence, but unfortunately most people in the West get really upset about talking about it, because "being smart" is something of an achievement badge for people and if you imply one group is smarter than some other group, it feels like what you're REALLY saying is, "This group is better than that group." Like, dolphins are smarter than sharks; therefore, dolphins are superior biological organisms to sharks.

But sharks have been around a whole lot longer than dolphins, and in a cataclysmic scenario, it might even be fair to speculate that opportunistic sharks, with their resourcefulness and hundreds of millions of years in the ocean, might outlast the relative newcomer dolphins.

Intelligence doesn't matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of things; the only thing that matters is who's left standing in the end, and on that measure intellect doesn't have a great deal of history to lean on in its favor.

As far as how it affects social value - hard to say. I can say that in the West and in Asia, stereotypes of Asian and Jewish people as the smartest lead to them usually ending up in "boyfriend / husband" categories (though I've known men who were clear exceptions to this, either because they were "ghetto Asians" or had learned to play the role of sexy guy), and black people as "less smart" lead to them ending up in the "lover / sexy hunk / guilty pleasure" categories (though, again, I've known my fair share of very smart black guys who could not shake the "good guy" boyfriend zone role). White guys fall somewhere in the middle usually, either in the "provider" category if they seem smart and accomplished, or the "lover" category if they seem dumber / hunkier. And of course, any guy from any race is liable to end up "just friends" if he doesn't have much going on for him in any department that women might be interested in. As far as getting women is concerned, it's probably best to be black, second best white, third best Asian and Jew, although if you know what you're doing you can clean up as any of these - I have plenty of Asian friends who have zero problems with women. And of course, at the highest levels of good fundamentals, race more or less doesn't matter, and all a woman sees is "ridiculously sexy man", even if he's of a race she normally doesn't pay attention to.

As far as facial hair - yes, absolutely - this is very specific to the individual. Generally, the tougher / manlier you come across, the less facial hair you need to (or even CAN) use… you need to tone it down if you're a particularly tough or masculine-seeming guy.

That said, make sure you're basing your reactions on how easy it is for you to escalate with women and how much resistance you get to your advances, vs. what people are telling you - very frequently, these two things contrast.

Chase

340Breeze's picture

Another good article.

My question today is related to the premise of your article, but with a different spin.

In short, how do you incent people to provide or show their value? If they're nervous, fear rejection, or otherwise inept at presenting their value, it's quite possible that people may never get a chance to see their value. Why? Our society seems to be very much saying to people: "show me your attractive value FAST, intrigue me FAST...otherwise I'm bored and I will rule you out of any chance to have my time." What happens is, the conversation dies down and the relationship doesn't get a chance to bloom.

Women with options with men seem to behave this way. They need to see hints of your value fast so that they can rule you in or out. This is part of the reason why facial hair, style, muscles, smile, body language, etc are so important because they give you an instant edge. Prior to even opening your mouth, women are already excited to see you, and just your presence alone inspires lust or something else in them. This of course makes interactions with them run easier, and if you're good at getting them to talk, all you have to do is hang back and be sexy. Win win.

But part of the allure of the true seducer is to bring out the best in people and inspire them to perform at their best. Even when they are slow to warm up, or otherwise socially awkward. I think it pays to not be so lightning quick and discriminating in ruling people in or out. This is just one of those things where what I think "should happen" isn't what actually happens.

But in being fast in ruling someone in or out, what happens is sometimes you get false negatives. For example, men who very good at presentation are sometimes ruled in by women, then later the same women (who themselves ignore nice guys) then complain that they were hurt by the sexy bad boy. A false negative. Also on the flip side, one can initially rule a person out (primarily based on emotional reasons because the person wasn't all that inspiring right off the bat) who later proves extremely valuable.

Obviously it's better to be in the position of providing so much value effortlessly that people flock to you. Humor, insight, experience, x-factor, etc. But there are those who don't understand this concept, and aren't necessarily very highly socially attuned or have the ability to inspire wonder and desire in others fast. However they still may have value to provide. So I think it's the job of the true seducer to have patience and discover that value by properly assessing the situation. There's not always instant attraction, but if you have the patience and ability, maybe the very faint initial spark can slowly grow into a fire. You never know.

So besides deep diving, what are some other strategies to incent people to show their best sides even if they're awkward and not "top-tier" at first? How does the seducer go about making people comfortable enough so that he can learn these things about people in an effortless/barely perceptible manner? Some people are good planners, good with strategy, have cutting wits, etc. But if someone isn't trying to impress you (whether consciously or not) they might still prove valuable after some prodding, so how to a) learn what this value is, then b) put it to good use (provided you have the time and patience to do this)? "Test them" if you will?

Cheers,

340Breeze.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Breeze-

Value assessment is a bit of a gamble, and showing signs of high value quickly and early on is a better indication of more value beneath the surface than not showing signs of high value. e.g., you meet a college professor from a prestigious university who's published 50 academic papers and 3 books, and you meet a homeless guy named Job with a shopping cart full of other people's trash - it may well be that Job will provide more value to your life than the college professor if you spend equal time on both and get to know both, but you have limited time and lots of options and you (probably correctly) assume that the college professor is likely to have a higher probability of being someone who will bring value to your life. Both men and women with loads of dating options tend to have to read and decide fast on a lot of subtle, nuanced value calculations that perhaps aren't as obvious as college professor vs. hobo, but are there nevertheless. And while it IS possible to fake some of these signals, the more of them that are present, the harder they are to fake, and the more powerful the impression... and generally speaking, to have enough signs of high social value, it's probably generally just easier to BE high value than to try to PRETEND to be, so these are actually reasonably reliable.

On prompting people to show value - just generally using humility, self-deprecating humor, telling people things like, "Oh, I'm terrible at this; I can't do that," when you otherwise come across high value, will frequently prompt them to start opening up and viewing you as more relatable. In general, the more relatable you are, the more people will reveal what they have to offer - this article may help: "Tactics Tuesdays: Learn How to Be Relatable with These 7 Secrets of Relatability."

Deep diving's a very good bet, yes, and just generally as you interact with more and more people, you'll over time develop very good instincts for who's probably good at what - e.g., the quiet, self-contained person with piercing eyes and perceptive abilities is probably someone who's a determined doer who's going to be loyal and hard-working and break through obstacles; the vivacious, bubbly individual who's full of charm and wit and grace probably has an ability to pull off things socially that you might not even realize are possible until you watch her do them.

The best thing you can do here is have friendships and relationships with a broad swath of people, and see what these people are like and how they impact your life over time. Some people will surprise you... and some people will not. Experience, as always, is the greatest teacher.

You can also look at what people try to do to offer you value - there are lots of people who THINK they have a lot to offer, but don't realize that the things they're offering to the people THEY want relationships with aren't of much value to those people (for whatever reason - and there are all kinds of reasons). Value's an extremely subjective subject.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase, few questions for you in regards to sex.

How long on average should penetration last? Loads of people seem to say that they average about 15 minutes but I'm thinking, if you can, does it make sense to go for longer, perhaps 45m plus etc etc. What's the optimal amount of time in your opinion?

Also how much time do you spend on foreplay?

What's the key to giving a girl multiple orgasms?

How can you work out roughly how experienced a girl is when it comes to sex?
Or is it all about age? Ie the older the girl the more experienced she is going to be? Do you ever get older girls who aren't very experienced?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

My opinion is, long enough to make her orgasm a few times.

If you can make her cum hard in a couple of minutes, you can finish up and she'll be satisfied.

Sometimes it's good to have very long sessions - these can end in lots of orgasms, or sometimes not - simply so that she gets bragging rights among her friends about how the two of you go at it for an hour-and-a-half or two hours or four hours or whatever, but you don't have to do too many of these unless you really want to (and outside of the honeymoon stage, you probably won't really want to).

Foreplay - again, up to you, but I'd recommend that the harder a time you have bringing a girl to orgasm with penetrative sex, the more time you ought to spend on foreplay bringing a woman right up to orgasm, so that you'll have an easier time of it during vaginal sex.

Multiple orgasms - see this article: "Make Her Orgasm Hard from Sex in 8 Minutes or Less"; mostly it seems to be hitting the back wall of the cervix.

How experienced a girl is - watch her hips when she walks. The more sway, the more orgasmic she is, and orgasmic ability is usually a rough approximation for sexual experience. Age does roughly correlate with sexual experience, but there are certainly less experienced older women - religious / conservative women, or women from specific countries that become sexually active at later ages are the most common examples.

Chase

Prodigy 's picture

Hey Chase, How do you make a girl feel a range of emotions, so she feels out of control.

And what kinds of Sexy Vibes are there? Cause I'm young so I'm guessing what would work for me, wouldn't for someone older. Or even just a different personality

-Thank you!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Prodigy-

You'll want to build and release tension for this, and mix in deep diving and chase framing. See these articles on tension:

... deep diving and chase framing:

... and this one on emotional buildup:

On sexual vibes, I'd roughly paint them as:

  1. Moody / gloomy sexy
  2. Smooth / suave sexy
  3. Energetic / captivating sexy

... and I have those on the article queue to get a piece up on at some point - so stay tuned for more on those, although if you go looking, you can find examples on any of them. Younger women seem to respond very well to the moody / gloomy sexy vibe in men (see: any book, TV show, or movie that younger girls are going ape over, and you'll find a male sex symbol who fits this mold).

Chase

Trevor's picture

Hey chase and fellows been following you for a year great stuff thats changed my life for the better... but my question to u all is how do u feel about interracial dating, do u guys mind? ive dated girls from other races nd i feel like theres alot of ppl looking at me funny, is interracial dating seen as weird?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Trevor-

On judgment, I suppose it depends on where you live how much people mind, and whether you and your girlfriend are "beyond race" or not.

e.g., take an average white guy and an average black girl and put them together in a relationship, and a lot of people will judge them and say the white guy must not be able to get white girls, or the black girl is betraying her race, or what have you.

Next, take a really exceptional, attractive, powerful, charismatic white guy and a really gorgeous, outstanding, charming, sensual black girl and put them together in a relationship, and people just look at them and say, "WOW, that guy's a catch," and, "God DAMN that girl is beautiful."

I suppose I'd say if you want to break unspoken social norms (like "date within your race"), first work on turning yourself into someone truly exceptional, then focus on getting women who themselves are truly exceptional, and people will stop judging you and instead just be blown away with both your quality and your partner quality.

Chase

Humpert's picture

Hi Chase and GC! Humpert here!

I was wondering if you could write about or direct me to something on gaming girls who are working, and not only working but maybe serving me too. Recently, there was a girl at a supplement store I didn't feel confident enough doing anything else but flirting with; a barista that was drop-dead-gorgeous I didn't know what to say to; and today, a waitress I tried the direct approach with right after she had asked for my order (I was alone) that resulted in "Sorry, I have a boyfriend."

I think after about a week all these girls would have forgotten about me, and I could try them again. And feeling like you know exactly what to do works wonders for your balls...

Thanks for everything.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Humpert-

We had some posts on the discussion board that talked about this a bit as I recall, and I know I linked to them in a previous comment somewhere on the main site, but there's just so much there that I don't remember where that was anymore.

In any event, I do have this on my list of topics to cover here in an article - still have to get it up, just haven't done so yet! A few quick tips - don't count on seeing her again on subsequent trips, and just ask her out quick when you first see her (preferably not in earshot of other customers or employees, though).

If she seems especially interested, ask her when she gets off work, and if it's soon, tell her you'll meet her then, then do something with her after she gets off.

Anyway, that's one I'll go more into in a future article for sure.

Chase

Satanloves's picture

Have Standards.
Digg'd the article!

James P.'s picture

Hi Chase,

Great article definitely gave me greater insight into an issue I have. I was wondering how I should handle a certain predicament I continually find myself running into. Im the strong silent type and I generally give off an aura whenever I first meet a group of people. Especially among the people who have the highest value, they seem to look up to me. But what generally happens is someone who's of high value in the group doesnt like that Im a bit outsider and actively undermines me. I've found this situation happen to me many times but its usually a cool girl who's somewhat insecure. As I try to meet more people lower in the group they are usually intimidated by me. Because Im very busy I cant spend a ton of time, easing people in and lowering their barriers . Whenever I try and humble myself and come off friendly, I think it gives off that i'm going from being too-cool to too needy. The thing that happens to me so often is that I come in at a very high point then as more people, who dont even know me but hear about me through word of mouth, become turned off I lose perceived value. All of sudden the cool people in the group see it as we're still friends but they have more value. I almost become a burden because they have to defend me or associate with me. Usually what happens by the end are the guys still respect me, one guy equated me to a "cult classic" but most of the women either ignore me or hate me. Any tips of keeping more perceived value, especially among women. I've tried ways of coming off less intimidating but as Charles Barkley says Whos afraid of a large black man has often been my issue.
Thanks

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