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You’re
at a night school class you share with a pretty girl you’ve
had your eye on.
The semester’s only halfway through, yet you have a feeling this girl
likes you, and you like her too. You’ve
chatted a few times, and sometimes you sit near her or next to her, but
not always.
One evening, your class lets out and she takes a long time to gather her belongings. Coincidentally (or not), two of you head out at the same time. You strike up a conversation with her on the way out, and she’s responsive, but the conversation quickly stalls out. She seems happy but nervous. You feel like she’s waiting for something. Then you think how awkward it would be if you asked her out and she said no, and now you’ve got to keep coming back to this class and it’d really suck if there was an awkward vibe between you and this girl you like.
So, you tell her well, anyway, you guess you’d better get going, and you peel off and head to your car. On the way home, you kick yourself for not asking her out.
There are some men out there this kind of thing never happens to – if they get a shot with a girl, they take it. They can’t even understand why this would even be a problem for guys.
For most guys though, this is something they’ve had happen once or twice (or thrice... or four times... or more times).
The difference between the man this doesn’t happen to, and the man it does, quite often, comes down to a difference in their general and specific social aptitudes.
Comments
hard on yourself
The classroom scenario happened to me in college a few months back. I knew there was a girl in the class that liked me but I was too afraid to approach. The class ended and I left feeling like complete shit. I remember walking to the bus stop and covering my face with my hand so people wouldn't see that I was crying. I thought to myself, "damn, even after reading all of this advice I still can't do a simple approach, I'm a failure!"
Sometimes I think I'm too hard on myself for not approaching girls when I feel I have to.
Chase, during your journey of pickup, did you ever feel like you were being too hard on yourself?
Too Hard on Yourself
Anon-
I think rather than say “too hard on yourself” I’d say “focusing on getting better the wrong way.”
When you’re unskilled with women, shy around them, and don’t have experience built up approaching them, it’s always going to be (insanely) hard approaching on your own when they’re waiting for you to do it; and doing so in social environments where you’re going to be worried about exposing yourself to ongoing awkwardness and humiliation if you mess up is even worse.
In a way, approaching a girl in class, where you’re in a completely passive role, and you have to go there and see her everyday, and there’s not a thing you can do about it, is just about the hardest kind of approach you can make.
I will say, even when I totally sucked with girls, I would express mock frustration with this kind of thing, but really I’d be laughing at myself too. Like, “Oh GOD, you dumb oaf, that girl was hurting for you so bad! And you did NOTHING! Argghhhhh! [laugh]” Pretty painful, but it’s also pretty funny. And it’s encouraging, because you know that you’re closer now than you were when you picked up on these signs but never even THOUGHT “Well, I guess I should do something, maybe.”
What I found early on was typically, you have something like this happen to you enough times, and sooner or later you just start approaching.
Eventually you get enough of a “it hurts when I fail to approach” response in, and when you see signals you go, “Well, if I want to avoid a lot of pain later I guess I’d better chat her up.”
Then, you go.
The one thing to keep in mind: there will always be more opportunities.
Always more girls to talk to.
Missing one just gets you closer to being ready to do something with the next one.
Chase
constructing new social circle full of ambitious and cool guys..
Hi chase,
It's so good to see your articles are popping up regularly. This article specifically deals with a difficulty , which i am trying to solve.
Though, i am doing somewhat ok with girls but my social circle is completely broken.( buddies are moving in different cities for jobs and I am trying to build my own freelancing career). I do want to make a social circle full of ambitious guys like me, but have no idea about how and where to start. It's relatively easy to pick up gals by doing cold approach(at least i know that it's possible), but how the hell i am supposed to build a full social circle with cold approach? I am just out of my college so no classes as such. Recently i went to several libraries and art gallerias just to find new friend/s( i know it's lame :P). I was even able to connect with some cool people and got their contact info. But things are total confusing after that. I have no fucking idea , when i should call them, what should i talk to them and as a result most of those digits never helped much to my purpose. I don't feel this much of anxiety, if am dialing a hot gal's digits for the first time. I am really struggling with this , if you can help me little bit , i will be highly obliged.
Making New Cool/Ambitious Male Friends
Subzz-
I’ve personally done it through a few different ways.
One is going out and meeting people randomly. I’ve added cool new friends to my circles here and there, but it’s pretty low percentage. I’ve found bars (not nightclubs) are usually the best for meeting guys who are good with women, and young professional networking events plus business forums / chamber of commerce meetings best for meeting professionally successful folks.
One thing to keep in mind is you’ll usually be looking for specialists; it’s rare to find a guy who’s successful with business, and successful with women, and a total cool cat. Usually you’ll find guys who are talented in one area but lacking in another; maybe he’s good with girls but professionally unsuccessful; maybe he’s got a great career but he kind of isn’t very good with women. However, you WILL often find that people who are uncommonly successful in one area tend to be open-minded about success in other areas, which makes connecting with them easier.
Another way to build/join circles is getting involved in various online forums. The senior-level members on many boards tend to be pretty close-knit, and you’ll find a surprising amount of guys of varying levels of business/career success among their ranks, too. I have a good number of multimillionaire friends I’ve connected with thanks to pickup forums, which has really sped up my development in business.
There are always private invite-only social networks going on on the web that, if you can find them, end up being invaluable for meeting some quality people. I joined a (now mostly defunct) one in 2008 and it became another source of cool new contacts in whatever town I was staying in, or whatever town I traveled to.
A final one worth considering is any kind of local / regional sites with forums. Yelp.com is a good one; if you build a profile on Yelp, you can get invited to local events and meet other Yelpers. There are usually local magazine/newspaper sites that have forums too. Or Meetup.com.
All of these require investments of time, because friendships are always nurtured. If you’re doing it online, you’ll typically put a lot of time into certain sites / forums (private boards are better because people are inherently more trusting / the member quality level is invariably higher) before you start reaping social dividends for them (e.g., maybe you’re participating almost daily for a year before you start meeting people… but once you do, suddenly you’re meeting tons of really cool people who already know you and respect you and you’re connecting with them instantly because you know and respect them already too). Same deal with in-person; when you meet a guy, it’s going to be like, “Yeah, cool, we should hang out,” but there’s not much commitment there. You have to nurture a friendship overtime for it to grow into anything substantial.
Also, if you haven’t seen them, or haven’t seen them recently, check these articles out:
Chase
I have a good number of
I have a good number of multimillionaire friends I’ve connected with thanks to pickup forums, which has really sped up my development in business.
Wow that's so interesting.
You'd think most people on the pick up boards would be people otherwise struggling with social life and more on the geek side and that millionaires certainly wouldn't need much pick up skills to get laid...
Hey Chase, When socializing
Hey Chase,
When socializing with "socially superior" people, is it better to polarize and kind of explore and feel out what is "right and wrong" or lay back and watch, learning from observation?
Or perhaps another method?
Socializing with the "Socially Superior"
J.-
Hang back and learn. Just be chill/cool. If you don't know what to do, err on the side of, "I'll let him take the lead."
Reason being, if a guy's experienced, he'll tend to have not a lot of patience for guys doing dumb/awkward things around him.
Polarization is about experimentation - it's wonderful to do with pickup, and it's fine to do socially if you're interacting with people you're never going to see again and it doesn't matter if you mess up.
HOWEVER, if this is the one super cool guy you've met all year, he is not the person to be trying out wacky or polarizing ideas on (he'll have even less tolerance for it than a more regular guy).
Instead, just be cool, let him do his thing, and learn through osmosis. If you'd rather turn it into a more conventional mentor-mentee relationship, you might be able to do that, but you'll have to feel him about a bit and see if he's open to it... many guys aren't, but at the same time if you're reasonably cool they'll be happy to hang out with you so long as you're adding to the fun and not being a liability.
Chase
Help Shedding my Catholic Upbringing
Hi Chase,
Excelent article as always... You never cease to amaze me with your wisdom, truly eye-opening. You must have gone to hell and back to become the man who created this site and its scads and scads of articles.
I know you come from a Catholic background, so I am hoping you can lend your advice concerning where I am at right now. I was born and raised Catholic, and my parents are very fundamentalist, close-minded, no nonsense believers who take the Bible entirely on faith and are very opposed to premarital sex. I am in high school and still live with them. Before I found this site, I was completely in the grip of my infatuation and scarcity, much like you describe your past in your legendary article "Can't Stop Thinking About Her? Here's Why You Need to Meet More Girls". There was this One Special Girl I spent eight years pining over, kinda like the girl you mention in the computer folder story. Another girl nearly drove me insane after I lost her due to moving as slow as a glacier, and I probably would have gone mad had I not found this site. Anyway, since finding this site and devouring article after article, life has been a whirlwind and I have never been happier. I am fully commited to becoming the man this site has helped me realize I can become, and in the few months since I began developing my ability to get girls as a skill my results have skyrocketed and I am doing things I never dreamed of ( and I used to think I had high ambition *eyeroll*). I still have a very long journey ahead, and who knows how long it will take. All in all Chase, your site has been a godsend and I am incredibly fortunate to have found such a treasure trove.
Back to my question. Obviously my parents would be both astounded and infuriated if they knew what I've been up to, what I've become. My dad has a point that I haven't been able to refute: that I am disrespecting the fathers of the girls I seduce, and that I wouldn't want some guy to do what I do to my sister. Another point of his regarding sex and marriage is that I should be saving myself for Mrs. Right who I marry. It's hard to explain to my dad that I'm skeptical about the whole marriage thing and even the very religion I was once so devout to. I read your article on a practical approach to purpose many times, and it is among your best. I believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and that's about it. My dad has threatened to not pay for my college should I reject Catholicism. I'm asking for your experience, such as how your own parents reacted to you quitting religion and whether or not they ever protest about your lifestyle. Also, what do you think about the mentality of respecting my future spouse by saving myself for her, and honoring and respecting the fathers of the girls I get with? How about handling my parents? So far keeping all this to myself has been my strategy. You're a brilliant man, I hope you can give me some insight.
Once again, thank you for creating and investing in this site. I am a disciple for life and love your How to Make Girls Chase. Honestly this site and all it's articles should be compiled into a novel of sorts and preserved in the highest of libraries. I would also love to read an autobiography of yours should you ever make one, perhaps when you are older? Also looking forward to that relationship book you have mentioned.
Always,
Liam
Catholic Parents & Concerns
Liam-
Those are some tough obstacles to deal with, for sure.
My mother’s the Catholic; father’s agnostic. But he’s actually the sterner one, who spent a lot of time asking me when I was going to “get more serious”, while she’s the more loving/accepting parent who trusts I’ll find my way without needing to be pushed towards it.
My solution to religion was simply not to talk about it with them. On a few occasions, when my mother asked me if I still believed in God, and that she was worried I wouldn’t because I was always very logical and very interested in science, I just said “yes, I believe”. And when she had her own crisis of faith following the death of her father, and came to me asking if God was really real and heaven was really real, I assured her it was and helped her reaffirm her faith. For all I know, it may well be, in some form or other.
While I lived with my folks, or when I was back from university, I still went to mass with my mother every Sunday. At first, after I decided I was no longer a believer, I’d grit my teeth through the whole thing. Once I got over all that though, I came to appreciate the beauty of it again. I quite like mass now, even as a non-believer. If I get a chance to sit in on a ceremony at a church or a mosque or a synagogue, I take it.
I wouldn’t recommend trying to explain yourself to your parents, or “come out” about not toeing the familial party line. There’s really nothing it gets you, other than perhaps a bit less cognitive dissonance. If your parents have firmly held beliefs, they’re not going to change them because the young kid they’ve been bringing up thinks he knows better than them. They were the “never trust anyone over 30” generation in the past, but now they’re the “don’t listen to anyone under 30” generation. Even if you can string together watertight, compelling arguments, they’re going to tend to view it as a young kid rattling off some tripe he got from somewhere or other who hardly even knows what he’s saying or doing.
As for respecting a future spouse by saving yourself for her… this is a bizarre element of modern fundamentalist Christian thought I don’t quite grasp. Throughout most of Christian history, and Jewish history before it, it was the girl whose chastity needed to be preserved for the respect of a future spouse. Males don’t have “virginity”, going by the historical meaning of the term; there’s no hymen you have to break. For men in Christianity, chastity is more an ideal to strive for to prove their devotedness to the faith. Even many highly honored men in Christian history struggled with this though; e.g., the young St. Augustine’s prayer “Grant me chastity and continence, but not yet.”
As for honoring and respecting the fathers of girls you sleep with… well. There is a certain element of this – I’ve had a few conservative brothers and fathers of girls I slept with get a little miffed with me after finding out I’d been with their sister/daughter, having formerly thought these girls were virgins (not the case for either girl, in fact; of course, they weren't going to tell their family members that). At the same time, women are not going to tell their fathers about sleeping with boys, so you won’t hurt them that way. I suppose there’s the whole “But even if he never knows, you’re still hurting him by participating with his daughter in something he doesn’t want her to do” – which, yeah, maybe. But here’s an interesting counter-question: who’s more hurt… the girl who longs for you but is rejected by you, or the father who’s daughter happily sleeps with you?
I do agree you should go out of your way to honor the fathers of the women you sleep with, as much as possible. Treat their daughters respectfully, and do not hurt them. At the same time, just because the father doesn’t want the daughter to engage in XYZ thing, well, now you’ve got a battle of wills: she wants to, he doesn’t want her to. Please him and disappoint her. Please her and disappoint him. Tough call.
Best I can do is if he finds out she’s been sleeping with you, go out of your way to communicate to him that you’re a high caliber, upstanding guy, so he’s able to look at his daughter and say, “Well, at least her taste in men is impeccable.”
Then just don’t tell him about the blowjob she gave you outside the 7-11 at the end of your second date.
Chase
Comfort around superior people
I think the second is the most difficult, because it is hard not to feel threatened or have a competitive urge in the presence of "superior" people. I noticed that I have a strong urge to avoid being with noticeably successful people because I feel inadequate in their presence. But I try everytime to turn off this feelings and shift consciously and effortfully my mindset to It's-an-opportunity-to-learn.
Is there any way you used to do that allowed you to feel comfortable around "superior" people?
The Urge to Compete
Moon-
What helped me the most (and still does) is to continually remind myself, around people who are more accomplished than me in any area, that “my accomplishments will not impress them.”
I’ve lost a few great contacts in the past by feeling that urge to slip into puffery and try to make yourself sound like their equal or better, but if you’re not an expert there’s just no way you can do this effectively when talking to an expert. You won’t convince a pro you’re better than him when you’re not (unless you’re already pretty close to where he’s at… then maaaaaaybe).
So the mantra I adopted was “He won’t be impressed by your accomplishments, so just save it, take on the student role, and watch and learn.”
Sometimes difficult when it’s something where you take it as a point of pride (“I’m a great X!” → then here comes this guy who’s clearly better than you), but if you want to keep high caliber people around you, it’s worth it not to bug them with fake showboating that only drives them off.
Chase
I'm lost....
Hey Chase, I've been having problems lately. With the more women I date the more experiences I have. Right now I'm comparing myself to the women I'm sleeping with, and I'm getting crazy and really depressed about this. I feel as a man I should have move money and partner's than most of the women I meet.
When I hear a women makes more money than me, or has more partners than me, I get extremely angry, like I don't get it, and it's getting even more common as of lately.
This girl I'm seeing is making more than me, and her partner count is close to mine.
I have the feeling that I am less of a man, like it's role reversal. I feel inexperienced and I feel like shit. I really don't know what to do. I keep trying to make more money and get more lovers, but it's 10 times harder and I'm not at the level yet to get these things easily.
She loves me, but I feel like I want to dump her because I'm not making more money than her, and we're close in partner count. I need to achieve more than her.
Can your help me with this problem and thinking. I'm lost right now.
Thank you Chase.
Fears, Frame, Pain, and Growth
Sub-Zero-
See my original reply on the boards here:
Re: When a girl makes more money than you
You can’t always will yourself to think/feel the way you want though.
If something’s bugging you about a girl, there isn’t always a ready solution.
It’s usually your intuition warning you of potential problems down the road. e.g., if she starts throwing her sexual experience around, or she starts hammering you for making less than her, these will expose genuine cracks in your frame and you won’t be able to handle them.
If you can’t get your mind right, your choices are pull your ripcord and get out before you encounter the problems, or stay in and figure that if it becomes a problem, you’ll handle it and learn (or take your beating, and learn).
I’ve stayed in relationships in the past where I thought, “Oh man, this is going to mess me up at some point,” and it did… but these turned into tremendous growth moments for me, too, and I’d do it all over the same way if I had to.
That said, at this point in my life I wouldn’t get into the same kinds of situations (i.e., “Oh man, at some point this gal’s going to throw me for a loop”), simply because I know what I’m doing / where I’m going and can’t afford the distraction.
It doesn’t seem like you’ve quite figured your direction out yet though, so I’d probably suggest not being too afraid of a little prospective pain for a lot of potential growth.
Chase
Intrigue but clear expectations?
Perfect timing, Chase and really hits it on the spot!
1. I was recently trying to expand my social circle, meeting more people at social events (such as bowling club or anime club) and came across some difficult people. And this really hits the issue! People who tries to one up me; people who's the center of the event and catches everyone's attention (hence, I didn't stand out). So much conflict but this article gave me the courage to forge forward and keep going!
Hopefully to develop my aptitude through practice so it doesn't seem to take up so much mental capacity as it does now.
I tried to befriend attention centered guys, but can't figure out how to come across as effortless. But there were times I just couldn't think of a little effort way, and just went the only way I thought of. Any advice for this?
2. Incidentally, a girl really likes me but I'm in college right now and don't want a relationship to take out other opportunities to practice and hone my skill.
I didn't want to hurt her "Don't Hurt a girl, set your expectations,"
So I want to set the expectations early on, but how early should we do this?
We're texting now, haven't met yet. And it feels like giving her "the answer" to what I want with her, which kills the uncertainty = killing intrigue.
What effects will it have on her if she says, "Ok, don't worry, I'm not looking for anything either. Let's just chill and have fun"?
I'm worried if she'll fall out of love once she becomes certain what's to come and sits back and relax. She doesn't seem to chase after her reply (texting less frequently), but Ricardus says women chase more for a relationship after you set it out of the picture. Gotta stop thinking of her and meet more girls!
I don't know, what do you think Chase?
Awesome stuff again bro!
Lawliet
Too much typing
Sorry for all that reading in number 2.
Simply put, how does intrigue become affected (and her behavior) by setting expectations for open relationship? And how early should we set them?
I have met with her, but not first date yet.
Thanks for all your help on this site! Really helped me improve lots!
I especially love your practical examples and ancedotal case studies!
Thanks,
Lawliet
Center of Attention Guys, Long-Distance Expectation-Setting
Lawliet-
Make sure you've read these articles:
The first, to understand people trying to one-up you.
The second, to bring more social value yourself.
The third, to understand how not to approach guys who are the center of attention (they generally are savvy enough to know not to break circle, or may even throw you under the bus if you try).
Typically, no one's the center of attention the whole time, so if there's someone you want to meet, rather than try to yank him into a one-on-one while he's in the middle of holding court, just wait until he's moved off to the hors d'oeurves table or what have you. Then grab something next to him and strike up a conversation. Helpful if you've chatted with lots of other people first though, so he's seen you being social and you have some social proof on your side.
Re: relationship expectations, explicitly discussing these prior to intimacy is only for pros. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone that does this explicitly, either.
Instead, you set relationship expectations prior to sex by things like how long you take to bed a girl, how much conversation you have with her before intimacy, what you talk about, etc.
Where a lot of inexperienced guys go wrong is they invest buckets of time on girls and chat about everything under the sun, and don't sleep with them until they've known them for long periods of time, and by then the girl's been fantasizing about this guy as her Prince Charming forever. They realize this a little late, try to tell her something like, "You know, just for fun, we shouldn't get into anything serious in our situation," and she either auto-rejects straight up, or pays lip service and says, "Oh yeah, totally! Totally agreed," while still being totally convinced that you're just saying this to preserve your mystique or whatever and the two of you are still about to become betrothed.
If you're at that point - sounds like you might be - I'm not too sure if there's a remedy for it... words can't undo what actions have done. You can either decide there's no way to responsibly sleep with her, or you can really try to discuss with her a lot about hey, I realized we've been chatting so much but there's no way we can really make an LTR work and I just don't want to hurt you, and make sure she's super clear on it before you let her proceed [if she still wants to], then reinforce it again hard after sex "I really don't want to hurt you, you know blah blah..." though she'll still probably get at least a little hurt.
Chase
Speaking of social aptitude. I have a question.
Edit: too long of a question for the comment box to hold
Family/Friends and Attainabilty
Is it possible for family and friends to start viewing you as unattainable as you improve yourself? If so,what are some signs that they see you as unattainable and how to change this perception?
Re: Family/Friends and Attainabilty
Anon-
Sure. You'll see classic auto-rejection signs, like:
Same attainability tech works here as with girls. Recommended reading (especially the first):
Chase
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