Don't Compete with Guys on What They're Good At (Instead, Beat Them on What They're Not) | Girls Chase

Don't Compete with Guys on What They're Good At (Instead, Beat Them on What They're Not)

Chase Amante

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beat them at what they're good at
When you’re head-to-head against another guy over a girl, the last thing you want to do is try to best him at what he’s good at. Beat him on your terms, instead.

Commenting under my article “If a Girl Has Sex with You Fast, is She a Slut?”, Mike asked:

Hey chase, please I have a question to ask. I want to know how to compete with guys more handsome than me. Thanks.

It’s a good question. It echoes similar questions I’ve answered in articles and in the comments before, such as:

I don’t want to spoil the whole article, but the way you win, of course, is by not trying to beat that guy at what he’s good at.

Instead, what you must do to win is change the rules of engagement.

With the right tweaks, you can put a guy on the defensive and emerge victorious for the girl, despite almost any number of on-paper advantages he might seem to have over you.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

BMontana's picture

I think it's an interesting topic, basically one I have thought about countless times.

You did a good job in the first part of the article Chase, but the longer the article went the more I realized what I have experienced in real life: that no matter what you do, in the end it's not always youe actions that make the differecne but it's whether the girl is attracted to you or your competition in the first place. Look at what you said here:

"Yet if they compare a guy with these qualities to another man, and the guy with the attractive qualities gets flustered while the other guy stays chill and in-control, they lose attraction for the flustered guy with the great on-paper credentials, and gain attraction for the cool guy who maybe doesn’t have as good paper credentials."

I don't think that is necessarily true at all. She might lose attraction for your competition BUT that doesn't necassarily mean she will find you attractive at all, even if you are cool and chill. She may find you more sympathetic, yes, but still not good enough to spike interest in her. The reasons for it you already covered in the "what if it doesn't work" part.

And btw, how do you compete against a good lookng guy who is also way taller than you at all? Unless he acts like a total moron, chances are you won't win that battle against him, if you are just medicore in height and looks because the girl won't give up on him easily, no matter how good your frame and game is. From my experience women are way more stuck on their ideal type of a man and it will take a lot more for you to have her lose interest for him and come at you. Problem though is, girls, as you may know, chase after men they like, they can't help it. So it's very unlikely you could turn the whole thing in your favor once she has set her eyes on HIM.

I think your strategy works best, if both guys are even in looks, height and status.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

BMontana-

Sure, yeah, if a girl is not attracted to you, it doesn't matter what competitive strategy you use. Nor how good your game is, nor how handsome you are, nor how tall, how high status, etc. If she isn't into you, she isn't into you. This strategy presupposes you are with a woman who is into you reasonably enough (I tried to seed that caveat multiple times throughout the article).

I think what you may be getting at is if there is a great imbalance in attraction? e.g., if she is slightly attracted to you, then another man approaches whom she is (for whatever reason) very attracted to? In that case yes, you will have a very difficult time winning that competition. Which, again, comes back to why this doesn't work that well if your fundamentals are not well developed, nor your game - you are simply not going to be competitive attractiveness-wise with other men who approach.

Likewise, you never reach 100%... no matter how good you get at everything, there will be women who aren't interested. When that happens, you just go meet someone else.

I think your strategy works best, if both guys are even in looks, height and status.

These are three attraction factors, out of a sea of them. If you're evenly matched on everything else, but one man has superior looks, or height, or status, then yes, that'll often play a deciding role in attraction.

However, if he is better-looking, taller, and higher status, but you are sexier, more charismatic, more dominant, and better know how to handle social obstacles and navigate tricky social situations, I'll tip my hat to you more than I will to him (he'll win some; you'll win more).

This isn't speculation. I am not worried about whether a man is taller than me, or better-looking than me, or higher status than me. Status is the most worrying of the three, but not much. Unless the guy has half-decent game (which nullifies part of my advantage), or he has an advantage over me (like he's known her for a long time, or already built strong rapport with her before I met her), she is going to choose me most of the time.

I am much more worried about whether a man has good game, myself. If a short guy approaches a girl I am with, but he is dominant, charismatic, and smooth, that is a major red light to me. If some tall handsome guy with generic game approaches, he's not getting anywhere. Source: years in the field dealing with these scenarios over and over again. You get pretty good at identifying threat vs. not a threat after a while. Beautiful tall guys are not a threat unless they have well developed game, which in my experience they usually do not.

Chase

BMontana's picture

Hey Chase thanks for your reply.

"I think what you may be getting at is if there is a great imbalance in attraction? e.g., if she is slightly attracted to you, then another man approaches whom she is (for whatever reason) very attracted to? In that case yes, you will have a very difficult time winning that competition. Which, again, comes back to why this doesn't work that well if your fundamentals are not well developed, nor your game - you are simply not going to be competitive attractiveness-wise with other men who approach."

I agree with the first part but don't get the second part. If a woman is immediately more attracted to another guy than me, then what can my fundamentals and game even do about it anyway? She clearly wants him.

"However, if he is better-looking, taller, and higher status, but you are sexier, more charismatic, more dominant, and better know how to handle social obstacles and navigate tricky social situations, I'll tip my hat to you more than I will to him (he'll win some; you'll win more)."

You said if he is sexy, then you should me dominant. Could you explain this or give an example?

"If a short guy approaches a girl I am with, but he is dominant, charismatic, and smooth, that is a major red light to me."

I'll be honest with you. If the guy is just slightly shorter then yes, I would be concerned too about his game. However if he is like 2-3 inches shorter, then I will be relaxed, because I know the girl I am with won't probably not choose him anyway. I don't know whether that is 100% true but I don't feel challenged when a shorter guy becomes my competition because I in my mind I am thinking he has to work a lot harder to get her. If a taller guy walks in and approaches her, then I will be concerned more, even when his game is weak.

"You get pretty good at identifying threat vs. not a threat after a while. Beautiful tall guys are not a threat unless they have well developed game, which in my experience they usually do not."

Interesting. Do you think that is because they don't care about game since women give them more attention anyway? On the other hand a good looking tall guy gets many women in most cases, so sooner or later he will know what turns women on and off, don't you think?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

BMontana-

If a woman is immediately more attracted to another guy than me, then what can my fundamentals and game even do about it anyway? She clearly wants him.

Right. What we're talking about in this article assumes you are at least in the same ballpark attractiveness-wise as the competition. If the other guy is far and away more attractive than you (considering all his different attraction factors rolled together vs. all yours rolled together), it's just kind of sad if you are sitting there trying to compete with him.

If you're running into this a lot, it means you've got more work cut out to do on your fundamentals and game.

If it's just an occasional thing though, well... happens to the best of 'em.

You said if he is sexy, then you should me dominant. Could you explain this or give an example?

Sure. Because most men are specialists, if you're able to be a generalist, you can very often use countermoves that take away their advantages.

In the case of the sexy guy, sexy guys are usually very seductive, but not very physically imposing. If you have a sexy guy competing for a girl with you, then you might slap the guy on the back, punch him in the arm as you talk to him, put you arm around his shoulders and give him a strong (friendly) shake, etc. You get to both communicate to him that you are physically dominating him, and show it to the girl. (if he's that rare guy who is both very sexy AND also very physically dominant himself, then you're in trouble; he's also a generalist, and there may not be an easy way to counter him. Most guys are not generalists though; most are specialists, and are easy to counter if you use the right approach)

Interesting. Do you think that is because they don't care about game since women give them more attention anyway? On the other hand a good looking tall guy gets many women in most cases, so sooner or later he will know what turns women on and off, don't you think?

Yeah, it's weird. When I was younger I always experienced tall guys must get laid a whole lot and get high quality chicks. The more tall guys I got to know though the more I discovered guys who were 6'4", 6'5", 6'6", and would have these huge long dry spells where they could not get laid, and when they'd finally get a girl she'd be 'meh' looking.

I've had a few tall and good-looking friends over the years who did fairly well with women. But nothing outside the realm of what other guys with half decent game/fundamentals I know pull off. And none who are in the same league as any of the guys I know who are really good with girls (none of whom are tall... and only one of whom is very good-looking).

My personal theory is the laconicness of taller men limits them somewhat. The shorter you go, the more wiry and energetic, and the taller you go, the more the guy becomes very relaxed, very laconic, very blasé about everything. There may be a point where you are just too blasé to close consistently or work hard for women, even if you are getting more escalation windows on average than a man who is your equal in other ways, but shorter than you.

It's weird, because height is supposed to be a very big attraction factor. But in practice I almost never see it shake out that way in the field.

Chase

Lawliet's picture

Hey Chase,

When girls (bf or not) have these realizations and say things like,
"I have never talked about this with anyone else! (after talking about it with you)"
or
"Haven't had such a refreshing conversation in awhile"
or
"I wish someone would have told me that when I grew up"

And likewise...what does this mean? (the message underneath the words)
What do these statement entail in terms of behaviour?
What is this on the value x attainability scale?
And how do we reply at these moments?

Thanks,
Lawliet

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lawliet-

This is a very good thing!

It means you're providing high value conversation women find refreshing, liberating, and inspiring.

You're doing well.

Now... bear in mind this is not enough in and of itself to succeed with women. It's part of the picture though. If you can combine it with sexuality and get women to follow your lead, then you're flying.

Chase

A-jay's picture

Hey Lawliet. Care to share examples of some of the topics you've been talking with girls about lately? Seems like you're on a roll here! :)

Anonymous 's picture

Hi Chase,

I'm always in my thoughts and they have been obsessive for over 5 years.

I have been having bad thoughts contasntly in my mind, and they are very distracting. I can be doing anything from working out, sleeping, driving, even having sex with a chick.

These are horrible bad thoughts that I Want to go away, all of these thoughts are bad, and I think about them 24/7 my brain never rest. It also ties into me being scared to do many things because I then have bad thoughts about that.

I've tried meditation, but the thoughts are so strong and relentless that I have to stop.

I have no clear thoughts or mindfulness, just bad thoughts all of the time.

My main problem is that I have to do rituals to stop them, you can imagine how many times I have to do them everyday. It's very tike consuming, but I feel that's the only way I can tame the bad thoughts and make them go away.

Thing is they always come back, but stronger and they never stop, so I do more rituals, and they interfere with things I do and I can't keep doing them when I have to focus on important things.

I read your article on depression, I strive to work hard, but the bad thoughts won't stop.

I wanted to know two things:

1. How can I stop these bad obessive thoughts that I had for 5+ years and make them go away?

2. How can I stop doing my obsessive rituals that I feel I have to do to keep the bad thoughts at bay? Like I said doing these is very tike consuming and I keep doing it because I feel that's the only way to stop my bad thoughts, and to keep good things going on, but like I said the bad thoughts still come, and I still have to do these rituals everytime. Do you know what I can do to stop doing these and to tell myself that I'll be OK if I stop doing them? It feels like I have to, but I don't want to anymore.

Thank you so much Chase!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Obsessive–compulsive disorder

Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is a mental disorder where people feel the need to check things repeatedly, perform certain routines repeatedly (called "rituals"), or have certain thoughts repeatedly.[1] People are unable to control either the thoughts or the activities for more than a short period of time.[1] Common activities include hand washing, counting of things, and checking to see if a door is locked.[1] Some may have difficulty throwing things out.[1] These activities occur to such a degree that the person's daily life is negatively affected.[1] Often they take up more than an hour a day.[2] Most adults realize that the behaviors do not make sense.[1]

I had this to a moderate extent as a teenager (I guess technically it is still there, but it is pretty well managed. Just surfaces now as a mild perfectionism). Used to not be well managed though. Eventually I got tired of it and decided to break the rituals and force myself to do the opposite of what I felt I had to do. Quite liberating once you do it.

That said, I do not have experience advising people on managing extreme personality disorders. Yours sounds more severe than anything I've dealt with. I suggest you seek a professional (e.g., a psychologist), or at least look online for OCD support groups and see what other folks use to manage their problems.

Chase

SZ's picture

I don't know the word to define this, please tell me if you do, I'm a very competitive person, but I lack self-confidence. I want to do great things and be better than anyone I know, but I lack confidence because I lack results.

This is basically with everything from money to girls, and etc. I want to be better than everyone, but I often doubt myself because I haven't had much positive success.

My main questions I had are about mindset changes.

1. My biggest problem is my mindset with money, I feel it's very hard for me to get. I'm at the point right now, I feel I can't make a lot of money and want to give up on everything, what keeps me going is my competitiveness to do good and show I can do good by making something of myself.

With my mindset now, money feels so hard to me, all I have had are very bad jobs that pay crap, even with education I still get paid crap. So money in my mind is hard, but I'm wondering if I change my mindset, could it work ?

I'm depressed right now because I still feel deep down that the only way I can make good money is going to school and majoring in stem, but like I said I'm extremely terrible at math, so I get depressed off of it, I feel I messed up and I should give up.

I'm like this because I don't really know how to make money besides these things, and I feel dumb and that I can't do it because of my math problems.

I want to change this and not have to depend on college to make a lot of money, I don't want to have my math problems or college hold me back.

Right now I'm applying to job after job, and still getting rejected. I'm feeling lost right now, how can I make money if I can't get a job?

I won't ask how do I get money, but will changing my mindset of getting money help me to make more?

Right now with my math problems and all of my low paying jobs over the years, good money to me feels imaginable, I feel like it's so far out of reach because I never had a decent job, add that in with my math skills. That's all I know, and it shows, but I want to overcome it and still be successful.

These negative thoughts of myself don't help me try new things at all. I feel with everything I try, It won't work, I feel I can't make money with it because I never even had a full time job before.

Anyway, enough with ranting, just wanted to know with a dude like me that is bad at math that thinks getting a stem degree, and being good at math is the only way to make a living.

Would it be useful for me to think that that's not the only way to make good money? Would having confidence in myself that I can make money no matter what actually help me make some real money? Would a mindset change actually work? If I feel I can attain a lot of money, can I figure out was to actually do it? Instead of being negative ?

I blame my race, luck, and my math problems on it all? Maybe if I change that, then I'll finally find ways to succeed.

2. Is it good to be as competitive as I am? How can I actually get somewhere with my competitive natural dispite my lack of failures, which causes me to lack confidence ?

3. For some reason I have no confidence in stuff I do. With money to girls, pretty much everything. Pretty much with everything I have doubts that I can't succeed, but I want to succeed. How can I change this mindset and just think to myself it's possible to achieve what I want?

4. I'm going to try to major in stem, or another specific skill and to see what happens. I want to know if you were in my shoes and you couldn't get your stem degree, what would you do instead ? I was thinking of buying courses and learning specific skills online and freelancing. I'm wondering if that could work, and if you would do the same if you didn't get a college education.

I'm honestly at the point right now where I feel school won't benefit me much and I should just learn skills. I can't wait anymore years to make a living.

5. Do you know any jobs that seem respectable enough that I could get while I work on skills and go to school ?

Or do you think most respectable jobs require a degree or skill?

I think I might do sales. I don't know about any other jobs.
Thanks!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

I don't know the word to define this, please tell me if you do, I'm a very competitive person, but I lack self-confidence. I want to do great things and be better than anyone I know, but I lack confidence because I lack results.

The usual word for someone like this is 'dreamer'.

Yes of course, "How can I do it?" is always superior to "I can't do it." Or I guess we could say they achieve different things. "How can I do it?" trains your mind to find solutions. "I can't do it" attempts to attract others to support you by adopting a defeatist/victim mentality.

I'm sure you've heard me say it before. I spent a decade blaming everything else for my crummy life in the early 2000s. And finally one day I said "It feels disgusting to say it, but since nothing else has worked maybe I should try to adopt a positive outlook and see if that causes things to change." So I did... and, in time, it did.

#2 - stop comparing yourself to others. Use yourself as your point of comparison. Are you better now than you were two weeks ago? A month ago? That's the base of comparison.

#3 - not necessary so long as you have grit. Some people are optimists (who are just naturally confident about whatever they do), others are pessimists (and won't be confident in something until they've done it many times). Not much you can do here but know your weaknesses and plan around them.

I was thinking of buying courses and learning specific skills online and freelancing. I'm wondering if that could work, and if you would do the same if you didn't get a college education.

Personally, I would spend half my time copywriting, and the other half my time programming, until I established myself enough in one of those fields that it crowded out the other and I had no more time for it.

But that's just me; I like to write, I like to be able to work anywhere in the world so long as I have a device I can work on, and it'd be nice if I knew how to program beyond CSS and HTML (I don't have the bandwidth to learn programming now, but it sure would be a handy skill to have). Everybody is going to be different in what works best for him.

Re: jobs, nothing else I know of other than what I've already discussed on these.

Chase

SZ's picture

Chase,

I know the 12 steps article leads to you becoming an elite man.

Are there other articles you recommend that specifically focus on becoming an elite man? Or would you say that all of the articles do?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Or would you say that all of the articles do?

You know me too well, SZ ;)

But yes - start with the 12 things article.

Chase

Richard 's picture

Hi Chase,
I was wondering what articles you recommend are best for both attraction and game on this site.

I was wondering this because i was looking through the comments above and see you mentioning attraction and game separately and would appreciate your view.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Richard-

Anything on "fundamentals" I'd recommend for baseline attraction. A few good articles to start with:

Most articles the fundamentals category or in the Men's Style (which is devoted to more than clothes/hair) should be worthwhile, too.

For "game" (as in, what to say to a girl, how to behave, what to do), here are a few good primers:

The pickup category and seduction category are largely devoted to game, as are the Pickup Tech and the Dating Rules pages.

Maybe start with the several articles I linked here, then the pages (since you can easily see most popular articles, plus skim a lot of articles on a single page). Then if you really want to dig in, switch over to using the categories to go through large numbers of articles on a subject.

Chase

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