Dating Without Sex: Why It Usually Doesn’t Work | Page 2 | Girls Chase

Dating Without Sex: Why It Usually Doesn't Work

Chase Amante

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On Ricardus's post "How to Make Her Want You: Lessons from Marketing," a commenter named Garrett reports being conflicted over a few aspects of what's taught here. In particular, he asks why physical intimacy is needed with romantic partners, and if dating without sex isn't also just as possible.

dating without sex

Here's the part of his comment dealing with this topic:

Out of curiosity, I've spent a lot of time researching this topic, and there are a few things I fail to understand. Firstly, to get a girlfriend, why must you sleep with them? If you can prove me wrong then I'd be interested to know, but I feel indifferent about this. I feel that everything in life requires balance and in order to get a girl to like you, you should be yourself, be mindful of ways to improve yourself, and strike a balance between acting like a jerk and on the contrary, a 'wet noodle' who is no challenge whatsoever.

Garrett also goes on to say that he feels like other aspects of what's discussed on Girls Chase feel to him like "manipulation," though this is a topic already addressed in depth in " Is Seduction Wrong?," the basic premise of which is that people who lack the drive to improve themselves fear others who do who become conscious of their own actions and strive to perfect them, typically working to censor them and stop them to prevent competition and declining options for themselves (e.g., you will rarely have a successful career woman who's had to tooth and claw her way to success and improve herself dramatically stand and accuse you of being manipulative for learning seduction, though you will often have a girl who dropped out of high school and works at the local taco shop fly into a frenzy over how "manipulative" men like you are, presuming of course that she doesn't actually know you and is instead setting you up in her mind as some diabolical "other").

I won't cover whether seduction is manipulation and whether I ought to censor myself here or not again, although I will note that it does partly come down to where you draw the line - there are certain "dark arts" of seduction, like October Man and like Sexual Power Reversal, that I simply don't teach because it's too easy to do harm to women by wielding these clumsily. So, I do have an "ethical limit;" if I really honestly think it's something that can lead to the average man doing more harm than good, I don't teach it.

What I will talk about here today is if it's really necessary for you to have sex with a woman you want to pursue a romantic relationship with. Can you skip this step and get by with just waiting for marriage?

It's a question I've been asked a number of times on the site, and haven't addressed yet... at least on here.

But, as it turns out, this is actually one of the very first questions I had to discuss - and debate - on a public scale that has to do with sex.

So come with me, and let's have a look at what happens when you do not have sex.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

Corinna 's picture

Beautifully, thoughtfully presented. Well said.

Formerly Polish Catholic's picture

First, I'd like to say I think this blog is great.

Second, here's my situation. I was raised hard-core Roman Catholic as you were (though I'll admit you're a bit better educated than me on it, it's hard to find someone who is) but I've dropped that because I've found Catholicism to be an untenable product of culture, as opposed to the Word of God.

The thing is, my whole family, so far as I know, is super hardcore Catholic. I love them all, they're great, and everyone being hardcore Catholic has had one incredible effect that I will always be grateful for. My grandparents had 9 children, they all went out, got married, and had 29 grandchildren, and now my whole family lives within about an hour and a half of each other. Everyone gets together for every holiday, a lot of us go to church together, if anyone ever needs something someone will have a connection to get it done on the cheap. It's the most functional family I've ever seen, there's only been one divorce.

While it's quite a beautiful thing, that makes it that much harder to break it to them that I can't stay in lock-step with them any more. I'd like to know if you have any advice on how to approach the subject without getting disowned.

Okay, disowned is an exaggeration. I know they love me and they always will, but I need to declare my independence while still maintaining the strength of the family relationship. I know it's possible, as one of my uncles and his family is part of the Society of Pope Pius X, which I'm sure you know has essentially been excommunicated from the Church.

Could you help me out?

Corinna 's picture

Hi Chase. I appreciate how you cut through all the politically correct psychobabble regarding heterosexual relationships and deliver your honest perspective.

This is my favorite article. How your grandpa won over your grandmother? Gold.

The articles you’ve written on romance/sex/attraction/relationships ring true for all heterosexual couples in relationships. Period. Regardless of religion.

I'm a devout christian, and I was a virgin. So was my husband. We tied the knot last year. He's a captain in the united states air force, so during most of our relationship, we had to communicate via skype/e-mail. He was very direct with me. There we no doubts in my mind that he wanted me. I've never been ashamed of my sexuality, so I felt the same. But, our morals and commitment to obey what we considered God's commands prevented us from fulfilling our desires without first being married. It was damn HARD. We set ridiculous parameters on our physical relationship to ensure we did not violate a moral principle that was extremely important to us.

I honestly don't know what the difference is for couples who don't wait. I have no frame of reference. Maybe we held out for nothing, and great sex is great sex, regardless. But I doubt it.

All I can say is that the knowledge that my husband is completely mine, that each expression, experience, fantasy, sensation, and discovery has been shared only with me...this fills me with emotions I can't adequately express in words. We have an incredibly fulfilling relationship: spiritually, sexually, and emotionally. For us at least, there are no regrets.

H town Legend's picture

Hi Chase. Here are your verses. ... Corinthians 6:9-11, "Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body" I Corinthians 6:18.

Lust is a sin too because it leads to that. Jesus said that if you have thought about it like had a fantasy ect about a sin then you have done it in your heart and are culpable. Its like I might have a passing thought about wanting to crunch someones skull in and step on it a hundred times but that is where thoughts like that and other fucked up thoughts should as a Catholic I know for sure just end. We are called to control ourself and self sacrifice. Its not easy to do what you know is right for you and say fuck society. Its not easy to do the right thing when you know its wrong. We are all sinners and we are taught to pray for our biggest sinners for they are the one that Need our help.

There are your verses right there and the reason we dont masterbate or fornicate is because when you commit a grave Catholic sin with full knowledge that it is a sin then you are bringing yourself ---further away from God--- You can indeed ask for and receive forgiveness for nay sin great or small its what God is all about and its wonderful. Howeva....If you knowingly sin and then ask forgiveness but do it again purposefully you are bringing yourself further and further away from God. Your own personal relationship with God has nothing to do with anybody else. Society or otherwise. Your gay teacher has his own relationship and so does that retarded girl in my third grade class who made me say "Fuck this shit!! there is NOTHING so cruel as to make someone like that. Sorry "God" you can trick someone else. But, However. God has a relationship with them both and if you get closer to him he might tell you what it is or why. You will understand if you do. If you get closer to God and follow his rules then you get to know some interesting stuff. Your gay teacher knows what his relationship is and why he is the way he is. At least God knows. Look at your idol Tu Pac. You think he had some strong convictions? So did your teachers and soccer coach guy. On a side note. What kind of devout Catholic girl asks you for sex two weeks before marriage and Chase, my friend. The reason Catholics date and should ONLY marry other Catholics is because it is the way we share out convictions about dozens of other things beside premarital sex! We bring great people into this world or try to. Thats what were all about.

Yhaceed 's picture

I think what he was saying was those verses and the teachers and preachers are not giving a fuller picture. For example what do you do with a verse like "your traditions make the word of God of no effect" or the same Paul who wrote that verse you mentioned calling his righteousness crap in Phil 3 around verse 14 or so. Now I think Chase could go on and on but I think what he was getting at is dating without sex has become a religion. In other words it's one thing to do it from your heart and another when so many people do it as their duty or put another way you wouldn't want someone to be polite to you and at the same time on the inside they hate your guts. In fact I've done that countless times with Jesus where I'm praying but I don't want to and while praying my mind is far away. And that's what He said to people way back in His day. He said "your heart is far from me". But take anyone in the Old Testament as an example and their hearts were near even though they didn't follow the "rules". They just knew they were loved like a parent loves a child who doesn't know all the rules. I'm not sure I addressed your point and if you're agreeing with the article or not, but you seem to be saying why Catholics don't believe in premarital sex but I still say most don't give the full picture and will say "it's not up for debate. Just accept it". No one in general normally talks about some of the things I mentioned and many others. You're just expected to not try and compare people to one pair of shoes you will wear forever as Chase's teacher did.

Andy's picture

Hi Chase,

Great article, lots of good points and it's a really interesting topic.

There's one side of this argument that you didn't seem to touch on though, and it's the idea of delayed gratification, and the benefits it can have for a long term relationship. There's a really good article about it on The Art Of Manliness, at https://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/07/01/how-delaying-intimacy-can-bene.... It makes a few good points, and is backed up with data from a few studies.

It's quite a different perspective to the "moving quickly" stuff you advocate here on your site, and
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the merits of this idea and how it gels with the rest of your philosophies on dating.

Thanks Chase, keep chasing.

Regards,
Andy

Jimbo's picture

"Imagine a society where no one gets married, and everyone stays single all the time, constantly competing for partners, and most men are depressed and fatalistic because a few powerful men monopolize all the women. How much gets done?"

A lot as well. Because one of the ways men compete is by making money, which, as long as violence is criminalized, is mostly acquired through work and productivity.

-----------------

"Remember that women don't care what men say, because they've evolved not to trust words. It's easy to lie with words, and women are very intelligent on most things lie-related."

I don't know about that. The proportion of gullible/credulous people in the male and female populations seems to be roughly the same. It isn't atypical to hear a woman go, "But he said he'd do this, he told me he'd stop doing that, etc." and then after a while give you something along the lines of, "I can't believe I was so stupid to believe it."

Johnny Thunder's picture

Your anecdotal arguments are just that, and can easily be refuted. The fact that you lead with an educational argument about the girl that allegedly get pregnant and caught an STD her first time is as silly as your shoe argument. If you had the choice between new shoes and those that had been worn by 20 barefoot men before you for the same price and for forever, who would you and anyone else choose? See, anecdotal arguments can always be refuted because they are stupid.
Jesus is truly accepting and that is the most important part of your argument. The human feelings of betrayal related to a soiled partner though are real and would not be part of perfect human condition. I am a man with regular male feelings toward women. I would never choose a woman that had the sweat, saliva and semen of other men on and inside her as a life partner. My wife being a virgin has always given me tremendous trust in her and our marriage. I know that she values herself enough not to sleep around with men who are not her husband without even having a husband back then. So, her spending a year in Europe while I was at war allowed me to fight without concern about what was going on back home. People who have slept around can get married to other sexually liberal people, but they will never have the same level of trust that I get to enjoy. That is how Jesus would want it for all of us if it was a choice. I encourage people to be true to their bodies so they can experience what true love, in the biblical sense, is supposed to feel like. I can tell you that it is the greatest gift God has given me in my life.

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