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As a woman ages, her tastes in men change. What does an under-21
girl prefer that women 32+ do not? Read on and find out.
As a man, your taste in women may or may not have changed as you’ve aged. I know a few guys whose tastes have changed over the years. Though I know many more guys whose tastes haven’t. I can tell you the only difference between the women I’m drawn to now and those I was drawn to 10 years ago is the girls I’m drawn to now are usually cuter. That is more simply a factor of having more choice with women now than I had when I was young, overweight, and romantically unskilled.
Contents
Women’s tastes in men, on the other hand, go through some major evolutions as they age. From between a girl’s late teens to her mid-30s, she shifts her tastes often dramatically.
Talk to most single women in their 30s about younger women and you’ll hear such women pan younger women’s standards in men. “Young women have the worst taste in men,” they’ll tell you. “The guys they go for are assholes with attitude. They have no taste.”
Male pundits normally regard this as a way for an older woman to make herself look more valuable in the dating market (i.e., she is more ‘refined’ than ignorant younger women) in order to make up for some of the lost value of her faded youth. And this “younger women are silly and foolish” frame does help older women do that. But there is a deeper reason so many single women in their 30s feel this way about those younger versions of themselves on the dating scene.
Before we talk about that though, we’ll talk about the different sorts of men women at different ages are most drawn toward. As always, game and fundamentals play a huge role here – the better yours are, the less you need to worry about fitting a certain template, and the better you’ll do even within that template.
Note that the age ranges we’ll discuss below are generalities. Some
women may be more or less ‘mature’ than their ages (we’ll talk about
that a bit below too). But in general, for the majority of women, you
should find these age ranges fairly accurate.
Comments
Thoughts
You know, I'm having a harder time identifying with any of those appellations. Nice guy / jerk / bad boy sound so distantly "manospheric" to me lately, probably because I'd never identified with any of them or saw myself as one. It may sound cliché, but "being myself" has worked great for me with women of all age groups, especially since I got better at opening and leading them on until the bed.
What I've seen is that girls and women of any age tend to be attracted to men who are masculine enough for them, enough to make them feel weaker, or overwhelmed, or feminine, be it physically, in terms of social influence and power, or on other fronts. Maybe that's what the 'bad boy' appeal comes down to; it's hard to feel/be more of a man than girls your age if you're a scrawny run-of-the-mill teenager unless you douche it up and stand out. And that may be part of what you were alluding to when you said the more rough-and-tumble the girl is, the more rough-and-tumble she wants her guy to be... unless he's an older guy, which gives him automatic additional man points, enough for her to feel like a girl around him. But most teenagers I come across go on about good-looking guys or celebrities.
You sure about that? I always thought it was harder to feel love for some guy who's just a dick, but that his vulgar expression of masculinity would still make him sexually desirable. Kind of like guys with hoes (though some guys do fall for hoes).
Stereotypes, Man Points, Jerk Attractiveness
Jimbo-
Yeahhhh... they're kind of stereotypical cardboard cutout shorthand terms for general feelings certain men give to women. It's a little juvenile to identify with one of them though: "I'm a Bad Boy. Ha HA!!"
Mostly just useful for lumping / grouping folks. Although obviously more relevant with younger women, who deal much more in stereotypes than older women tend to.
The better your overall self is, the better "being yourself" will work. My main gripe with it is when people give this advice out to guys who don't know what they're doing with girls and have no idea how to present themselves in attractive ways or recognize/listen to/follow their instincts. When you're in a better place with your game / your instincts / women in general, the advice becomes a lot more relevant.
Hmm, I like the scrawny vs. douche theory! I'd have to think about that some. At its core I think it's about being the rule breaker, like what we talked about in the article on coolness. Though whether that is to compensate for scrawny unmasculine teenaged youth... hard to say. Could be.
What a great term that is! :D
I'm don't tend to see being loud and mouthy as a particularly masculine trait. Women can be just as loud and mouthy as men can. Louder people are usually viewed as less confident and more showboat-y. The most attractive aspect of jerks tends to be that they actually go for what they want... nicer men are too respectful to do that. The girl knows this guy will actually deliver the goods, unlike many men his age.
Chase
great read!! great insight,
great read!! great insight, small typo here i believe:Over 21 though, she starts to desire a man with some sort of drive in her life. ( you mean "drive in /his/ life") ??
Got it. Thanks!
Got it. Thanks!
1. "you’re not the adult
1. "you’re not the adult child who runs from the increasing responsibilities life places on men as they age"
What does this mean exactly?
2. I don't have my shit together at all? What am I supposed to do in my situation ? I have no age range I like the most, I'm just trying to fuck attractive girls no matter their age. I don't think you would want me to limit myself.
Stuff like this makes me depressed about age, I'm at the age where you're supposed to have your shit together and I'm not even doing better than a college graduate, I don't even have a career or anything. What am I supposed to do in my position besides feel sad about my fuckin age.
Adult Child, Late Starts
SZ-
You break routines because you're an irreverent man, despite also having started on your life's journey. vs. what I'm calling an 'adult child' here, someone who is an irreverent rule-breaker because he's trying to not grow up. e.g., he is still postponing his future, saying he doesn't want to worry about those things, he's too young to worry about this or that, etc.
Use it.
Get angry at yourself for wherever the last however many years have gone went to.
Turn it into fuel, and get to work.
Chase
Response
Thanks for the article, Chase. I think there is some insight here to extract, however, I have to say it also makes a very strong case for innate hypergamy in all women.
Women will always love opportunistically (loving a man for WHAT he is, not WHO he is; as opposed to the more idealistic version of love men maintain). This is biologically imprinted into them.
Case in point: even if a woman were to get with a man who is at the top of her food chain, she will always wonder and believe she could have gotten, and still can, get better
Greener Grass
NAC-
I certainly don't disagree women wonder what other type of man they could be with... but I will ask this:
When you are with a woman, does that stop all thoughts about "I wonder if I could be with a girl with a prettier face / a girl with bigger tits / a girl with a more shapely ass / a girl who has more spark to her personality / a girl who is not such a bitch / etc."?
If so, you are among Earth's most fortunate men! Most of the rest of your fellow men (and women), unfortunately, are not so lucky as to be free from wonders of whether the grass might be greener on the other side.
Chase
Past rejections and changes in preferences
Hello Chase,
I suslect this is where all the "success" stories of friendzoned guys come from. He is nice to her, genuinly cares about her but she ride thr cock carousel until she gets tired of it. The guy improves in his career and starts to be more oriented toward something other than just being lazy. And the girl gets tired of the dick exploration and he then meets after some time, asks her out and it somehow falls into place because while he remained mostly the same in terms of personality, he improved his value and now that he is older it helps his masculinity to show up more and be more physically attractive. And the reason it is so unlikely is simply because girls usually pick the best guy in their current age and he is like 4th option so there is very high chance someone gets her before him.
However, would the guy move from 4th option to being the 1st option or would the girl think about it like "you know what, Steve is not that bad, he seems cuter now too, I can imagine being with him long-term" meaning she settled for less and just rationalize that.
And then, 5 years later she is somewhere meets some ex of her who fucked her on their 2nd date while other dudes too longer it was a party fuck so it did not count to her. Basically she meets her #1 guy from her past and while she might be happy with Steve now, this guy affects her emotions very strongly, most likely stronger than Steve. And while she never could put a finger on what she feels like she is missing, this encounter alone makes her realize she settled. And then she has to live with Steve because they have a family now and she her consciousness prevents her from cheating so she is let's say 80% happy and not 98% happy. But that would be under an assumption that this #1 guy can provide the same value while being better at impacting her emotions.
Because there is a girl from my past that shows big signs of interest in me now. Adding that I tried something on her and she rejected me. And I have a gut feeling that I would be Steve in this. Maybe even worse, Steve's weird friend Leonard who would be like 6th option for her.
So I am not considering being with her, but maybe having something not so serious just for the sake of "finally got her".
Re: Past rejections and changes in preferences
Michal-
Some of them, yes!
There are other common scenarios as well. The girl gets tired of being alone and the guys she wanted aren't available, but the friend zone guy is. So it becomes an "okay, he'll do" scenario.
Or sometimes the guy isn't too badly friend zoned and he still plays it a little flirty, gets some investment here and there, and isn't a complete lost cause. And she warms up to him and gets together with him. Or she gets drunk at a party and hooks up with him. Or he finagles his way into one-on-one time with her and manages to seduce her. Etc.
Either of your scenarios (Scenario A: friend zoned guy improves; Scenario B: older girl lowers her standards) will happen. Often, in the case where an older girl gets with an earlier friend zoned guy, it's a mix of both: he's improved, and her standards have lowered. So they meet in the middle.
Women can have all sorts of reactions on meeting first choice guys from their past they couldn't rope down. They might still be into them. Other times they've auto-rejected them and convinced themselves they hate them. Sometimes it changes and they warm back up to them; sometimes they continue to hate them ("Thank God I got Nice Guy Steve and not that asshole Michal!"). So it can happen a girl settles, then gets her memory jogged by a more attractive-to-her guy, and feels dissatisfied in her relationship. But there are a range of possible ways this can play out too:
She meets the old #1 guy and decides she hates him and is lucky to have Steve
She meets the old #1 guy and realizes how much she digs him and now feels less happy with Steve
She meets the old #1 guy and realizes she dug him a lot, but that was another phase of her life, and it does not affect her feelings about Steve
... and any number of other ways (but it'll probably be one of the above three. Though the more Steve has improved himself, the less he has to worry about the old #1 guy having a negative effect).
Yeah, you could be Steve (or Leonard) here.
Might be worth going for it for that 'finally got her' score, yeah.
Of course, there's always the risk that sets off a chain reaction and she becomes Mrs. Leonard. Good chance that's what she's gunning for in the first place anyway.
Usually, at that point, I recommend guys go for a younger model. Less baggage, tighter body, more fertile years ahead, longer time horizon before wrinkles and bags and cellulite and droopy tits set in ;)
Chase
How you handled "Introduce Friends"
Hey Chase,
Thanks for this article.
It looks like a good read. From the description, you asked "What changes?"
I haven't read it yet, but my first guess is stability...
I'll see if I'm right after reading :)
Re: Your "Introducing friends to her" article
I was slowly catching up and read that article.
That article was so true, yet started my day with a humorous blast!
Partially why I don't approach girls while out with friends because some are just...nearsighted XD
I'm curious how you answered her questions when she grilled you after meeting your clumsy friend.
I personally am not ready for one gf committment because my aim is same as yours, working on skill.
I have to keep it refined even in a serious relationship, because I value (and so does the girls) the connection in serious relationships, as opposed to fwb or casual.
I'm against lying and how other guys who parrot "Yes you are my one! You're the best" and all that bullshit while dating someone else. To me, that's irresponsible to her feelings and she'll be really hurt when it comes unexpected. Partly because I understand that pain...
And from what I've read, I believe every writer in GC is against lying in terms of something this serious (some exceptions when it's not, ex. Talking her out of sex, or alex's article on relationships)
I remember reading Ricardus' Relationship Expectations and yours.
I reviewed it. They noted how to set things on the outset so she knows without "being in her face" about it, such as seeing infrequently, and careful not to say or promise committments you can't deliver.
But what if she asks you directly in your face?
So when she says "Are you seeing other girls?"
or "Am I your girlfriend?"
I guess since you're travelling a lot, you can say something on the lines of "I am interested, but I travel a lot so I can't promise anything yet".Ricardus said to say "I'm not ready for a relationship yet" or "I enjoy being single right now"
Personally, I won't lie, but I also feel saying "Yes" or something so direct (as Ricardus noted "IN her face") would shoot all girls into auto rejection (even ones who would have been ok with it IF ONLY it was delivered right)
What about you? Any advice to deliver it perfectly and "walk on the line" for the temporarily local folk?
Yes, your article "Walk the line" reference ;)
Thanks,
Lawliet
Are You Seeing Other Girls? / Am I Your Girlfriend?
Lawliet-
Oh man, I couldn't tell you. I looked that article up... that was almost seven years ago. I do not remember what the girl hit me with or how I responded. That memory is long gone.
Yes, different ways to handle this. In general I am against lying (as discussed in that relationship expectations article). There's not much need for it and it tends to trap you in the whole tangled-web phenomenon. Not to mention the fact that it erodes trust and can be damaging to both the relationship and the girl.
How you respond depends on the sort of relationship you're trying to set up and the expectations you've set. e.g., if it's casual/FWB, you may have set "Don't ask, don't tell" rules and need to make sure you hew to that. Often you can just give her the skeptical look until she says okay, okay and leaves it alone. Or you may have been more open about it, and can just tell her "I'll tell you if you want. Is that definitely what you want?"
If she's asking if she's your girlfriend and you don't want her as a girlfriend, you will want to make that clear. How you do so will again depend on the expectations you set.
Saying "Yes" (to "Are you seeing other girls?") does not shoot girls into auto-rejection the way you might expect, provided you did not set wrong expectations. If you made her think you were going to be an exclusive boyfriend, then yes, it will cause her to auto-reject. Otherwise it's just a "Meh, that's what I thought" moment for her.
Chase
Hi Chase,
Hi Chase,
I have a serious anger problem right now towards women. I'm not in angry towards women in general but the societal conditions men are put in comparison with women.
Here's a post I found on reddit that describes my thoughts pretty well: https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/6fv6m0/deleted_in_raskmen_everyt...
"I feel like I have to excessively work on myself to be at least rarely considered attractive by a woman. I have to be in shape, be educated, get a decent job, be confident, have passions, be funny and entertaining. That sounds dreading in the long term. At the same time a lot of women have requirements men have barely any control over like height or your size down there.
When it comes to getting to know each other most of the time have to do the approaching, be interesting, ask for the number, ask the girl out, sometimes pay for the whole date, innitiate kissing and lead to sex WHILE simultaneously putting ourselves at risk of being rejected AT ALL TIMES, sometimes unnecessarily harsh. Meanwhile it feels like women simply have to sit back and either accept or reject.
The performance during sex is mostly carried by men. If there are any issues it's more often than not their fault.
Also, some men do EXCESSIVELY much work to get some women, i.e. learning seduction, pickup and/or straight up learn to manipulate women. They even talk to complete strangers on the street and get rejected countless times. How many large communities are out there for women struggling with men?
When I talk to someone about this issues it just gets shrugged off ("It is the way it is"), I get discredited as whiner and told to man up ("a REAL man does not complain about such things") or it simply gets denied. (women also have their struggle, they have to be... pretty!) Or the best option: "Date men then!" /r/AskMen even deleted my question several times. If there isn't even a place where I am allowed to talk about my struggles where the fuck can I??
Women get a ton of attention online, even when they're not that attractive while men struggle to get any at all when they don't fit certain criterias. (height) Women have a higher partner count on average. Women cheat more. Women get better treatment in court. Women have feminism, while men have no community with such a large base.
With these circumstances I think it's no wonder that communties like /r/incels, /r/truecels, /r/foreveralone, /r/TheRedPill, /r/niceguys, /r/menrights, /r/MGTOW and many more arise but I don't want to be part of such toxic environments, it doesn't feel right. At least in every sub it gets joked about how toxic it is - isnt my impression so far though.
I know life isn't fair but such a big discrepancy feels just off to me in a "civilized" society. I can't help but slowly begin to be bitter about this whole issue. Nobody does even seem to care about this. I acknowledge that women also have their own struggles but it feels like as a man I get the much shorter end of the stick.
I don't know what to do but being lonely just kills me inside and I'm just 20. Sometimes I just wish I was born as a heterosexual woman or a homosexual man. Can someone of the more experienced guys maybe change my view or give me some advice? I really don't want to be bitter but the truth goddamn hurts. And nobody cares about changing this imbalance of power within the sexes."
Got any thoughts or tips to resolve this anger issues? You're almost the only one I respect in this matter and would like to hear your opinion.
With best regards
-Rob
Angry Toward Women
Rob-
Anger is one reaction people can have to things they want but feel like they can't have.
The reasons cited for the anger are irrelevant. "Girls have this advantage or that advantage"... doesn't matter. Angry women complain about men's advantages and how women have to constantly watch their weights and go on diets and wear push-up bras or get breast implants and spend hours on makeup every week and men just show up dressed like slobs and expect to get laid. Men have it so easy yet it is so hard for women.
No woman will be convinced men have it harder by listening to men's gripes about how easy women have it, just as you won't be convinced women have it harder by listening to women's gripes about how easy they have it.
Law #11 of Spengler's Universal Laws:
I would focus on trying to learn to see women as individuals, just like you probably see men. e.g., if some girl complains guys have it so easy, your reaction will be, "Yeah, maybe that one guy from your story has it real easy, but I sure don't!" Same deal with women. For every girl you find who has it very easy, there are plenty more who are frustrated, bitter, angry, or alone, wishing they were men and could enjoy the easy carefree life men get to lead (in their eyes).
If you haven't read this article, make sure you read it:
Most Important Thing to Becoming a Lover of Women? Don't Be Bitter.
(or if it's been a while, probably reread it again)
As you get more exposure to individual women, bring more women into your life, and have more positive experiences with women in the real world, this anger will subside.
Also, stop browsing websites that piss you off. Women look a lot more superficial and trite online than they are in real life. It's easy to dislike people if too many of your reference points come from the caricatures people paint of themselves on the Internet.
Chase
Fickle females
A lot of the female phases you wrote about on the age timeline do apply to me. Now that I'm approaching 27, one of the few preferences that has remained consistent has been that I don't engage in a casual relationship for more than a few months. I know tons of 'friends' (somewhat superficial) w/ benefits that can go on like that for years. I personally, have set boundaries with that. I've never kept a guy around for casual sex any longer than 6 months bc to me it becomes a waste of time after that.
My longest, well only serious (seriously,tumultuous) relationship lasted 13 months. There's no way, I'd keep a regular booty call for that long. I find no point carrying on w/ one guy when I don't want anything monogamous, committed or long-term. I'd rather spend that time moving on to new prospects or spending more time w/ the other suitors I was getting to know around the same time. There's a lot of accuracy in this article, but obviously, some things differ for every female. I sure don't want to tie the knot until a long time from now. I may have to move on to the backup plan & freeze (short shelf life) eggs later on just in case.
Easier
I think it's way easier than that.
From what I have seen there are 3 categories of women:
16-19: girls look for their dreamboyish good looking prince charming before they get bored with him
20-29: women look for the good looking bad boy, the guy they love to hate and hook up with
30+: if they can't get the bad boy to commit they look for any guy who can provide for her and her (future) kids, no matter whether he is an alpha or not
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