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If you want a shortcut for understanding women instead
of ripping
your hair out at the roots because women don’t make any sense, think
about a woman this way: she wants to
submit.
Men know this, of course. But most men are not thinking about it
correctly, as evidenced by the various complaints by men about women’s
behavior on my old article “When Women Test Men.”
See, most guys are thinking about things like men do, which is in a rational problem-solving type way.
They look about themselves and see lonely women. And they see
themselves – also lonely. Well, why don’t women just submit to them? Then both of their problems would be
solved! The man would have the woman, and the woman would have the man.
The fact that women don’t do this is, to them, proof that women’s reasoning is flawed.
I mean, ask a woman to explain this, and really nail her down on it, and she can’t.
There, see? Irrational. Doesn’t make sense.
But it does make sense when you realize she cannot submit completely willingly to a man; she is not programmed that way. Even if she rationally wanted to submit to you because you have such well-reasoned qualities and stats, she cannot.
Why not, you ask?
Because women do not want to and cannot submit fully willingly under their own power.
You must make them submit.
Comments
Texting Starters and Phone Call
Hey Dave & Chase,
I've made it my duty to call at least three girls every week and I manage to do that even if the conversation only lasts five minutes. Still I feel a bit hesitant at times to call so I end up texting with a girl five texts each before making the call. My usual text conversation leading up to a call is like this:
Troy: Hey Ashley
Ashley: Hey ( girls don't use my name )
Troy: What's up ( I cut out question marks)
Ashley: Nothing. You?
Troy: I had a great day today. Besides the usual homework school was awesome. We had a little class party today and I ate pizza, sandwiches and ice cream till I was stuffed.
Ashley: Lol. Can I have some?
Troy: Lol yea but come and get it. What are you up to now?
Ashley: Nothing really. Just watching television
Troy: Cool. Do you mind if I called now (again I cut out question marks)
Ashley: Ok
.................................................................................
Then I call the girl and we talk for probably five minutes. With the text conversation I have I feel something is wrong with how it is presented. I'm not sure what. I think asking girls questions into my second text is a bit try hard yet I don't want to start blabbing about some random stuff without her promting me to. What could I change with my usual text conversation before the phone call? People are usually busy so calling them randomly is not appropriate. Yet the fact that I have to ask a girl if it's ok to call her seems a bit weak.
On the call
Now we are on the phone so I ensure I have a story ready at the beginning. Since I already greeted her over text I just call and talk like this:
Troy: Hey! So you want some of my food. Sure you can get some and then the bill will be waiting. Who pays? You or me?
Ashley: You
Troy: Really! Lol I thought you asked for some so you would pay lol.
Ashley: Not fair. You are supposed to be a gentleman
........and on and on we talk until about the five minute mark the girl says she has to go. Then I tell her give me one minute more, I talk then end the call first. Of course, the phone conversation above is just an example. Manu times I start off with some story about my day before asking any questions.
I realize that girls rarely text me first and never call. Why is that? They flirt with me when we are together and give me their number with no resistance. Why all the games. She could at least send a text saying call me. What can I change? Right now I would love to get into longer phone calls just for the learning experience. I do feel nervous calling girls yet I prefer it to texting. I can talk in 10 minutes when it would take two hours over text. I don't have time to waste like that. Ultimately I don't like feeling like a jester. Always calling, texting, saying "hi" first. How do I stop falling into mood swings because I always am the approacher. Is it just a phrase until I get more experienced and get good?
Thanks
Troy
To Troy
You're boring and unsure, and she knows it. She thinks you're sweet because you're polite, and contrary to what these idiots tell you, that's about all that is working in your favor. But you need to figure out your avatar; the type of man you come off as in a first impression. Are you the funny guy or fun guy? Are you the business man? What do you know? Women are not interested in being lead, but are looking for a leader. What does that mean? It mean, they don't feel they NEED to be lead. But if a man who they are attracted to just happens to be secure, know somethings she doesn't, has a can do attitude -- that's a great bonus gift. She can look to him to grow in those areas, or just champion his expertise in it. That's a great partner aspect for her and attractive.
Decide what you are good at and find a charming way to introduce it. Spoon feed her information -- not like you're hiding it, but like there is always more to learn from you and about you. Always be planning something!!! If you're talking to her a couple times a week, you should have figured what her availability is. Once you do, present her with a date proposal. She only need to show up, you handle the rest. And have back up ideas in case the date/time doesn't work, etc. Never tell a women she has to pay or come get something from you. You should be a facilitator. A man of action. This will help you weed out the women who are really interested and the ones deciding on you. Make yourself clear so you can be more clear on the women.
Submission and Compliance
Hey Chase,
I've been following this blog for a long time and I've took a lot of your advice in the process. I've begun to talk to more women and they're even beginning to approach me (thanks to the fundamentals), but I'm still have problems with conversation threads, loops, and ultimately getting women to submit. A lot of the women who show initial interest sometimes seem bored after talking with me for a period of time. Do you have any advice for getting more women to be "submissive" via conversation?
Escalation
Don-
If women are getting bored, you're probably not moving fast enough... that's generally what it is. This article is recommended, if you haven't seen it, or haven't in a while: Secrets to Getting Girls: Move Faster.
What a lot of guys do is they go and get into these conversations and then just talk until the gas runs out. What you want to be doing instead is talking only long enough that she's warm enough with you that she'll move with you when you want to move her, sit with you when you want to sit down, and accompany you home when you ask. You want to be escalating compliance throughout the interaction; see these articles for detail on how to do that:
If you're doing this right and your fundamentals are otherwise good, you don't even need to be especially interesting to win over most women. Most girls aren't crazy wild exotic people themselves, and they don't require you to be either. They just need you to be attractive enough, get them talking about themselves, and keep things moving forward.
Chase
Submission
Hey Chase!
I think it's a little confusing that most guys even me may have problem understanding the meaning of making a girl Submit to you..I looked it up in dictionary and couldn't get anything but what do you mean by submission?
Meaning of 'Submission'
Saedgh-
Yeah, I thought this one might be a little confusing for guys since it's kind of a different angle of looking at things. Like one of those Magic Eye books.
Maybe a comparison is more helpful:
When you...
First approach:
Lead her to come sit:
Deep dive her:
Chase frame her:
Kiss her:
Peel her clothes off:
Attempt to enter her:
... and so on and so forth.
Women only feel attraction for men when they feel themselves submitting to him.
She doesn't always need to resist hard, but she needs to resist in some way, even if it's just token resistance, otherwise she does not know the attraction of submission. When she is the agent and you are the one who submits, or the two of you are equally active, she cannot feel as attracted.
Even when women are chasing you, they do so in submission. The reason I tell guys not to chase after women is because, while persistence is the act of making her submit, chasing is the act of submission itself; it is just another way of saying, "You win; I will abandon looking unaffected for appearances' sake and will throw myself after you in obvious terms, simply for the chance at having you."
Chase
Busted!
Hey Chase,
I have a small question.
I work in a university and I'm constantly surrounded by the most beautiful girls.
But what do you do when a girl catches you looking at her?
My usual reaction is to quickly look away if eye contact is made, but I'm sure there is a far more dominant and less awkward way to react.
Thanks
Glance
There's an article about using peripherals and how to check out a girl and turn her on. I'd been using it but until reading the articles did I take an active approach to it, just like Chase wrote it kind of is like super powers.
If you get caught when doing a detailed once over I normally break contact down but then quickly re-establish contact with a smirk and maybe a casual wave. Check response, then approach if receptive.
Looking down first it doesn't concern the girl that I'm a threat. If you just keep looking you come off as the creeper etc. Looking back up means you're not one of the cowards ashamed you got caught.
If you're checking her out she's attractive, pull it off and it's a complement to her. :)
Don't be sorry that you got caught. ;)
Checking Girls Out
Here's the link to that article Glitch is referencing:
How to Check Out a Girl Openly and Turn Her On
Chase
Not to speak for Chase, but
Not to speak for Chase, but in this instance you are submitting to HER dominant frame and losing any hope of sleeping with them they may have had initially. When a woman catches you looking, smirk as if to say "Yeah I'm checking you out, what of it?"
The Economics of Submission
Chase,
It is a great insight - and an empowering belief - that women want to submit. However, most people reading this great web site are not interested only in the "what" of making women submit, but also in the more nuanced "how". In other articles you clearly describe this "how": Law of Least Effort. What does that mean? It means we, men, are better off making women submit like a king would, not like a jester. Based on this premise, I would like to ask the following question:
What is the dividing line between a man who failed to make a woman submit and a man who simply decided that a specific woman is too much work/time-energy waste, stopped trying, and moved on to other prospects with other women? Because ultimately what is the point of making a woman submit, if the opportunity cost of doing this is unreasonably high?
Re: The Economics of Submission
Sam-
Interesting question. Much of it relates back to the man's game, fundamentals, and status in any particular woman's eyes.
For instance, the hot cocktail waitress hanging out in the VIP section of your average nightclub is probably too high an opportunity cost for the average man, and so he auto-rejects her and calls her a bitch to protect his ego.
And then Tiger Woods walks in and is nailing her later that night. Opportunity cost? Well, aside from a $100 million divorce, that is...
You can divide the man who's made the woman submit and the man who hasn't along numerous lines. If they're roughly equivalent in all other categories, it might just come down to persistence. If not, it could be the one guy's spent more time improving his fundamentals; maybe she REALLY likes guys with muscles, and the fact that Guy A has spent 10 hours a week in the gym for the past 3 years lets him get the girl that Guy B who's only spent 2 hours a week in the gym for the past 3 years can't get. She will submit to Guy A far more easily; Guy B, she'll give a mountain more of resistance. Now, maybe Guy B CAN still get her if he's extremely persistent or has very good game; she makes it easier for Guy A because she likes his muscles, but due to Guy B's superior game and persistence, he has an equally valid shot, or maybe even a better one.
There are a hundred little ways you can divide those two men; it can even be situational. Could just be that the guy who's currently her boyfriend met her first; he just beat the next guy to her. If both started at the same time, maybe the next guy even would have had as valid a chance with her, but the fact that she's already 6 months into a long-term relationship with a guy she met earlier means he'd have to be 3x as good as the boyfriend is to have the same chance of getting her to submit... or she'd have to be routinely putting herself in a position for her to meet him (like, going to college parties without the boyfriend, for instance).
One man's time waster is another man's easy lay, and it isn't perfectly matched up; a girl who's easy for you might be a waste of time because she's so hard to get for me; and a girl who's a waste of time for you because she's so hard for you to get might be easy as pie for me. Different women have different tastes in men and different roles in their lives they're looking to fill, and who they're open to submitting to and who they'll give preference to in terms of how easily they'll submit varies enormously from girl to girl.
Chase
Signs of Submission
What are some non-verbal or even verbal cues that a woman has submitted? I mean, most are obvious, but sometimes girls are very guarded about this and they try to hide it.
My favorite is when we're talking and I make a point/convince her to do something, and she looks down for a second before resuming eye contact. With the right vibe that just gets me hard because the submission is so raw.
I think a more subtle example would be anytime she agrees with your frame/opinion in a way that isn't a natural progression of conversation. Almost like a switch goes off and she starts following your lead on whatever you do.
Maybe there are some other examples that I'm simply unaware of. Any thoughts?
+1
It would be great to hear more about signs of submission. I'm not aware of too many. I'm definitely familiar with eyes looking downward. I also think that when she's more or less by your side waiting on you, or looking to you, to let you take the interaction where you want it to go that's a pretty good sign of submission. I'm sure you probably know what I'm talking about. That's little vague though.
From what I can tell it seems like there's tipping point when compliance in the interaction is almost 100% to any request and very rapid, and from my old perspective of not wanting to be too dominant I was just getting there by luck.
Re: Signs of Submission
TR-
Good question. Off the top of my head, here are some:
Of course, the most revealing is compliance, which is why you always need to be escalating and always ought to be seeking to move faster. She might be submitting inside but composed on the outside; alternately, there are women who are big flirts and know how to mimic all the signs of submission but who will not actually submit to your frame or lead.
Look for submission or resistance when you ask for investment from her, and you'll have the clearest answer you're going to get.
Chase
wow
Yesterday i was with a girl from 11:30am to 2:30pm... we planned dat we gona have sex if things works out but she was disturbed by some people who were outside looking at her i think she made a perfect choice here since she went at her home nd came back after 4:30pm. On that time she firstly ask open the door i will give u a blowjob*i was shocked* then she quickly said how abt doin doggy style if u got condoms *i was completely shocked at this tym* lol she was the one submiting now nd u know wat chase i didnt feel her dat much but i was nervous as fuck anyway it was my first tym having sex real sex thanks to you nd yr website... wat i learnt is sometymz dont talk abt sex with a girl coz she will think u are into sex not her nd she is a friend of mine lol
Different strokes...
Man, this is so polar opposite of my style. The vibe I give off lets women know that if they raise their voice at me, call me names, start drama with me, etc, I will walk away in a heartbeat and possibly never speak to them again.
It's gotten to the point where I never (99% of the time) even have to verbalize it. They can just tell, so I never have any of this stuff thrown my way anymore. It's nice and peaceful, which is more important to me than the outcome with any particular woman. Peace of mind, for me, is a higher priority than micromanaging another person's emotions.
Such an energy saver.
Re: Different strokes...
Drexel-
Yeah, that's a "how do you want to run your relationships" kind of deal I think mostly. We never sat down and chatted too much in detail about relationships but I gather you mostly run relationships that are closer to a friends with benefits setup than they are a boyfriend-girlfriend setup.
You can take girls in girlfriend relationships who will be completely submissive 100% of the time, but when I have that myself I go a little crazy ;) I usually break up with these girls within a month or two of seeing them. The lack of drama is nice, but the lack of calling me on my shit and making me realize when I'm doing something dumb is a dealbreaker for me... and admittedly I'm often a little too stubborn and dismissive for the more placid women to get their points across effectively.
You might just be more open to calm, constructive feedback from the women in your life, or more attuned to their needs and adjustable to when you aren't meeting them to not need this sort of thing. Or maybe you just don't make the kind of knuckleheaded mistakes that benefit from having someone around who can call you on your crap that I do ;)
Chase
Does game even matter?
This clears a lot of things up for me. Thanks man. I think I gave women too much credit to be able to choose what was in their best interest, and I wanted to treat them as equals who could make their own decisions, but as you can probably guess that's made things pretty difficult for me. When I look back on almost any of my past interactions or relationships now I see exactly where I went wrong. This is excellent stuff. I always knew to be dominant and lead the interaction, but not thinking about it in terms of making her submit and the resistance she gives. I've given women too much leeway to make their own decisions in times where I should have been sternly making decisions for them.
So, if you can focus just on being dominant and making her submit to you, how important does game or fundamentals (besides fundamentals associated with dominance, posture, eye contact, etc.) become in comparison? Can you have great success if you're great at making women submit but have shit fundamentals and game?
A wise man once said:
"Keep the chicks in check"
Re: Does game even matter?
Driver-
I think the thing to keep in mind is that the better your fundamentals are and the tighter your game is, the easier a woman will make it for you to make her submit.
There's a direct link between your game/fundamentals and that of the competition in the area with how willing she is to submit to you. You can have the same exact girl, and take her to go live out in the country where she's surrounded by ugly, impoverished men without high school diplomas and you're the best option by far, and she will soon start to submit like crazy... then after a time, move her back into the big city and start frequenting nightclubs filled with men who are richer, taller, more muscular, better-looking, smoother, and sexier than you are and before you know it you'll be wondering why she's acting like such a damn hellion all of a sudden. How you stack up compared to the other men around directly influences how willing or not she'll be to submit to you (versus some other man around).
Making her submit is more or less a part of what I'd consider "game", anyway - all that is to me is knowing the right things to say and do, and when to say and do them, to get her to submit to you.
Follow your lead, bend to your frame... whatever you want to call it.
Personally, I like to keep the leash a little lax in my relationships and not make women submit too hard, but I'm more interested in having them NOT get too attached, because that makes it harder on them when the relationship ends and it causes them to become much more emotionally dependent on you. However, especially when you run your relationships this way, a woman will periodically start feeling too free, and then will come to challenge you for control of the relationship. And at that point, you just make her submit HARD, and she's back to being a kitten.
However, if you want a woman who's completely submissive, just focus on keeping her submissive to you all the time and you won't have to worry about these issues. That said, these relationships tend to be a little boring and not super growth-maximizing in my experience (though if you're living a more "normal" life or more concerned with just maximizing pleasure and minimizing pain, that might be perfect).
Chase
Thanks
Thanks Chase. That makes a lot of sense. It almost seems like things are going to be easy now that I have such a good understanding of this.
Just as a side-note, it's interesting to me that this frame of making her submit is a frame of placing yourself above the women, whereas typical PUA frames, like "pass her tests" come from a frame where you're placing yourself below the woman.
Relationship Model
Hey Chase
In the article "how to master anything" you mentioned that you've formed your own relationship model I just wanted to find out what that entails? Basically how do you run your relationships? I don't think you've ever fully expanded on that topic
Need your answer.
Hey chase
I need your answer on something but I want to ask u privately. so can u provide some link or a gmail or something where I can ask u my problem. cause I don't want it to be shown in comment section or forum n all. its something that's really bothering me from my childhood. So that'd be really helpful .
Sexual Behavior
Ok your stuff is amazing. Each article, I learn something new about the opposite sex. I have a question though. I love being dominant over girls and I know girls like to be submissive. But i don’t understand. Every time I bring up sex or a sexual topic in a conversation, girls automatically back down. This has happened to EVERY girl I try to escalate things with. Sometimes, I would get them to talk to me about sexual stuff but at the end of the day, I haven’t kissed her, laid her, nada. I’m getting frustrated because I’ve came to a stopping point with girls. I want to progress but I can’t seem to make it happen. i think I’ve narrowed it down to my behavior. I feel as if I have sexual body language but apparently, I don’t. How would I escalate things? I’m a beginner at this. I started last year. I want to start young before I go to college. HI school is just practice. But would it be my sexual behavior? If so, how can I fix it? If not, what is it then?
What if a woman is testy and
What if a woman is testy and picks fight for no reason but then turns down having sex for weeks ?
Successful women
I wonder if this works also with women who are manager, CEOs, familiar with leading men in jobs, or are successful in business at all......
It Works Universally
Anon,
From what I understand, the "CEO/Professional" type of women are Chase's favorite types -- so yes, I would say they work on those types of women as well. =)
- Franco
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