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On this website, my usual advice is that men do everything in their power to not paint themselves as overly wealthy, in order to avoid coming across as a boyfriend candidate. Certainly, dress well; but don't let on too obviously that you have wealth, a prestigious job, etc., if you do. In fact, if you're unemployed or not regularly employed (e.g., a business owner, an artist, etc.), talk about not having a job.
(this is a little different for men in the 40+ demographic, where you can be written off without some measure of accomplishment; for more on walking that fine line, see "Attracting and Dating Younger Women")
The objective is to prevent her from wanting you as a boyfriend in any way... so that you can focus on ramping up sexual tension and seize the role of the lover instead.
There is, however, one exception to this rule, which really isn't much of an exception at all - and that one exception is conspicuous consumption.
Conspicuous consumption is every bit the attraction trigger in women that things like:
- Preselection
- Good looks
- Perceived physical dominance
... all are.
And it doesn't violate the rule of "don't be stable", either, because men who consume conspicuously very often are not the picture of safety and security.
In fact, they tend to live quite wildly, and very often the most conspicuous spenders are the same men likely to bankrupt themselves at some point.
It's one of those triggers that cuts right to the most primal core of a woman's gut; when she sees it, a powerful, visceral, deep-seated attraction sets in that compels her to want a man, both by showing him to be among the cream of the crop mating-wise, and by advertising his total lack of viability as a long-term candidate.
How this works - and how you can use it, if you have even just a little bit of money to throw around (or how you can really blow it up if you have a lot) - is what this article is all about.
Comments
Not for me
Very interesting to see all of this backed up by scientific data but I must say conspicuous consumption to me just seems a little tasteless and showy. Throwing cash around here there and everywhere is not something I think I would ever be into.
I really love a girl to want me for the elements closely linked to ME, ie my inner game, conversation skills, fundamentals, charisma, sex etc etc. Utilizing something like cash to get girls in my eyes seems like a bit of an easy way out, even a cop out if you like, of developing those skills and moulding yourself into a better man. Cash develops a 'why bother with anything else' mentality.
I would just imaging pouring girls champagne and thinking hmm we'll this is wokin but really it's only working because iv'e got money. It would ruin some of the fun for me. It wouldn't really feel like the girl was digging me but rather that green dollar bill.
A potent weapon, but I do believe it would be foolish to rely on something as fleeting as money.
I much prefer to down play my finances and pursue the mysterious lover 'does he have cash or doesn't he, either way hes fucking sexy so whatever,' route.
A few questions I would like your opinion on though, Chase.
1) Who wins, cash strapped lover v cash splashing rich man?
2) I would imagine one should only splash out cash when he is genuinely very wealthy, it always seems transparant to me when some middle manager type is trying hard to be that rich guy but isn't really, am I correct here?
3) Despite scientific date I strongly believe that there are girls and just people in general actually who are highly tuned off by people who splash their cash about, because I think some people can see clearly when someone is Utilizing his material value in effort to subtly gain social value/sex/friends and I do
belive that people cotton on to how that man operates and see him as slightly false. Your thoughts?
4) Of course let's say you have a man who has spent a
While honing his skills an IS genuinely charismatic without
money and has no problems with girls. When do you belive is the time for this man to add conspicuous consumption to his game? Under what circumstances? Is it even nesacery for that man? No matter what, the man who displays his cash is always going to have a higher boyfriend value to his name then a man
Who seems to have no cash. With this in mind would it not just be more effective to continue without splashing cash.
It's an interesting topic though, so hard to know whether it's more effective to be the guy who girls wonder has cash and have that air of mystery to your name, or to lose that slight mystery and start showing your monetary value right up
In people's faces.
One other reason that I would be hesitant in showing my money would
be the constant wondering of who your true friend were. Who's only playing with you for your wealth and connections and who's genuine etc.
NOT FOR ME
i would agree with you that to use conscipous consumption is a waste, produces false reactions and results, and makes us seducers look fake infront of persons that know what we are doing by throwing away money.
i can tell a story from the bible with conspicous consumption:
there was a man by the name of the "prodigal son". his father was very rich and split his wealth in two for each of his sons. the "prodigal son" decided that he wanted his share of the wealth instantly and took it, left his fathers house and spent his money on partys, sex, and girls. in the end, he got broke and all his fake friends abandoned him and he became a homeless man eating out of a pigs pen. in the end he came to his senses and here it what i think came to his mind:
1) he developed false reactions and results
2) he made fake friends
3) set the wrong expectation as the rich/try hard guy/too cool/stupid/too easy going to care guy!
3) he will be abandoned if something should happen to his wealth and he got broke.
4) everyone or at least most of his social circle would abandon him.
5) that money should have been given to charity, the poor and needy who really need it.
now there is some contradiction between this article and "its not your investment in her that matters, its hers in you" article where it is said that flaunting riches doesnt earn friends, girlfriends and lovers. i dont get the difference.
now i am not a mean person and i would share what i have sometimes and pick up the tab, buy a little champagne but this is not my style. much respect to you chase but i would love your insight on this. thanks!
Conspicuous Consumption vs. Investment
Troy-
In "It's Not Your Investment in Her; It's Hers in You", I mentioned that thoughtlessly piling on time and money into getting a girl is not the way to win her heart over. In this article, by contrast, recall highlighted specifically the importance of not spending money on her for the sake of HER, so much as spending money because YOU want to spend money - on drinks, on nice places, etc. With conspicuous consumption, you're the bright shiny object that women want to touch and have some of the glitter rub off of onto them too; with what the guys I pointed out in the article on investment are doing wrong, these guys are dumping value all over women in an attempt to woo them, rather than drawing women to them with glitter and gloss around themselves.
Think of it this way: when you spend big on YOURSELF, and maybe let them join in on your OWN adventure, women say, "Ooh!" and it's fun and exciting and novel.
When you spend big on them, purely for the purpose of trying to win them over, women go, "Meh," and it's weak and needy and kind of pathetic.
Chase
More on Conspicuous Consumption
Anon-
I'd mostly agree with you on the tastelessness of it. When you see people who are "old money", their styles are usually understated and they don't often conspicuously consume. Conspicuous consumption might be a short-term attraction trigger specifically because it signals someone living laviciously and wastefully who's probably on the "boom" part of a boom-and-bust cycle. It might also be a "get in while the getting's good" opportunity for women - when a man's spending laviciously, if she can net him for something short-term, she's liable to get a good deal of that slipshod spending spent on her, as well, giving her more resources and increasing her security. Or it may be the novelty factor - here's a chance to experience super upscale hotels, crazy sports cars, very expensive things, and have amazing stories to tell. May just be a combination of all those things.
Cash-strapped lover vs. cash-splashing man: in my experience, the cash-strapped lover who is good will usually trump the cash-splashing man, simply because the guys who have cash have spent much more of their time getting good with getting money than getting good with getting girls, and the cash-strapped lover has simply conditioned himself to be more appealing on a greater number of dimensions. Of course, if you could take all the advantages of the cash-strapped lover and give him cash to splash around too, then you'd have a hybrid who does better than either... but I've seen this only a handful of times in my life. Very often you'll see cash-splashing men who don't know how to close, and get girls very worked up and excited, only for them to be picked up at the end of the night by cash-strapped lover types.
On throwing around cash when wealthy as opposed to being a middle manager: I'd very much agree with you, however, what you'll find is that usually the ones who are ACTUALLY throwing around cash are either 1.) trust fund babies who haven't had to work for what they have and don't really value it, 2.) the "suddenly rich", like professional athletes or singers, or 3.) those middle managers who think they're hotter stuff than they are, and are just saying "charge it" to everything because they've got a corporate expense account they can put a little wear and tear on or they just got a promotion and they want to enjoy it. The genuinely rich who have earned that wealth slowly over time almost never splash cash around like this, conversely.
Girls being turned off by cash-splashing: I've seen some really strange things around this. I've watched a lot of girls who are usually not materialistic, and who will dismiss men doing this as wasteful and childish, nevertheless begin displaying strong signs of attraction around these men when these men are conspicuously consuming. The only women I've seen who appear to actually be immune to it are women who are simply around it all the time - VIP hosts, women who work with the newly rich, etc. Not every girl ACTS on her excitement - many of them you will even see reject these men, despite their excitement levels, because either their logic or their nervousness / reservations override that excitement - but it is still there.
If you're already good and have cash to splash around: there are ways you can do this in small doses that give girls little bursts of excitement without going overboard. e.g., if you order drinks, and a girl says, "Oh, that's too much! It's too much!" and you wave it off and are generally unconcerned and just throw your money or card down, that serves as conspicuous consumption, and she's impressed. In a more logical moment, she may think, "Oh, I wonder if he can REALLY afford that, or if he's just trying to impress me?" but there in the moment, if you're genuinely smooth, she gets turned on. It's the same with something like a really nice hotel room or a very nice place.
Even though it's weath, which would normally up your boyfriend/husband value, conspicuous consumption communicates a message to women that says, "This guy spends money on women like he's very used to spending money on women - he's NOT going to stick around!" So, maybe a little counterintuitively, rather than up provider value, it actually nukes provider value and ups lover value. Of course, if you stick around, buy her expensive gifts, chase after her, and start assuring her there really is nobody else - you can move into boyfriend land. Otherwise, from what I've seen, guys who conspicuously consume and get girls they want as girlfriends who've watched them conspicuously consume actually have a REALLY hard time getting those girls to trust them... their relationships are tumultuous. It can be fun to do when you're single and have cash to burn, but when you start looking for a relationship, you want to nix this behavior and - if you ever let on that you used to do it - make it pretty clear that your days of conspicuous consumption are over.
Chase
i might try it but prefer to not throw it away!
Hey Chase,
This article was an eye opener for me! i might use a little conspicous consumption in the future, yeah!. Today
i have a topic that is not directly related to seduction but i want to share what ive learnt with you chase and the girlschase readers.
You recently put up an article on getting turned on and beating approach anxiety with new girls. I have read the forums and seen several persons with this problem. One of that to getting turned on that i have some experience with is "penis size and confidence in the bedroom". I have found by research that most men think that their penis is too small and it makes men low on confidence, feel inadequate to do the job and get what the girl and guy wants.
Now i have experienced small penis syndrome. my dick is 5 inches which is average but i always felt insecure about my size. i decided to do something about it and now i am currently making my dick bigger. ive gained some girth and 1/4 inch length after 8 months exercising my dick.
What i want to share with you that you can share with the girlschase readers here is this website url: PEGYM. A quick google search and there it is. i stumbled upon girlschase.com and pegym.com at the same time and they have made a great impact on my life ever since.
Currently im working on four things in my life:
1) My social skills (using your insightful information)
2) My school work and degree
3) Becoming a better athlete ( a 400m sprint runner) and toning my muscles at the gym.
4) My penis exercise routine for improved confidence and higher testerserone levels.
Please to check out pegym.com and tell me what you think about it and if anyone got any questions regarding penis size that you refer them to there because you told me that you would need someone a little more informed to avoid this being hear say!
thanks much from your reader, Troy!
PEGYM
Troy-
The site's rather poorly laid out, and seems to be just a jumble of HTML and images - I'm assuming you mean the stuff on jelqing?
A brief Google search on "jelqing" turns up this Wikipedia article that cites research showing that, despite claims by adherents of results, these don't appear to hold up in laboratory studies, which probably means there's some measurement bias happening among believers (if it can't be replicated by people doing it in controlled settings with precise measurements).
There also appears to be some measure of risk of " blood vessel tearing, scar formation, pain, disfigurement, and desensitization of the penis if done incorrectly" - I think I'd probably advise guys to focus more on sleeping with more women, which will almost certainly (and very quickly) dispel any concerns they have about penis size.
Chase
two sides to the story
Chase!
Well i would agree with you that sleeping with girls is better than doing some penis exercises to make it bigger. For several reasons sleeping with girls out weighs the time to do penis exercises such as:
1) No abstaining from sex since sex can diminish penis growth. More sex is best than pulling at your dick. I agree!
2) Attraction doesnt expire with girls since you take action.
3) More experience, increased dominance and confidence as a result of sleeping with girls instead of doing penis exercises with little to no sex.
However, i find there to be good advantages to doing these penis exercises:
1) It builds confidence knowing that you have a nice bulge in your pants.
2) Penis size influences girls attration levels when it is bigger than average.
3) Gives advantages to hit a girl in areas she no other guy could reach before.
So i would say there are both advantages and disadvantages to choosing between sleeping with girls and penis exercises. Also, when it comes to penis exericises, it is only when the exercises are not done properly that there are bad side effects.
So to wrap this up, i am in High School and i believe that students should abstain from sex and just focus on meeting lots of girls and improving until they leave school, and then they can have sexual relationships. So i agree partly with you, Chase, but i am young so now is the best time for me to improve my school grades, my penis size and meeting lots of girls at the same time until im older.
Much respect to you my seduction and socializing teacher and keep doing what you do best on here!
- Troy
Martial Arts
Hey Chase!
This is off-topic, but something I've wanted to ask you about. You've mentioned a couple times that you are learning some martial arts. Can you explain a little more which type you are learning and what you think the merits of that style are; why you chose it over others, etc.?
Thanks!
Re: Martial Arts
Anon-
Sure. I'm taking Krav Maga right now, basically because it's one of the most practical self-defense systems that's taught, and is focused on repetitively drilling you on being able to respond to real-world threats until you have an automatic response. Things like being choked, being attacked on the ground, dealing with multiple attackers, dealing with knife and gun attacks (in my last class, we disarmed attackers with AK-47s pointed at our heads), and things like this.
Here's a video on Krav:
The other one I hear highly recommended and have a lot of friends endorse is Wing Chun - here's a video on that:
What my Wing Chun friends tell me is Krav has a faster learning curve, but Wing Chun is ultimately the more powerful style - basically, someone who's trained in Krav Maga for one year will beat someone who's trained in Wing Chun for one year, but someone who's trained in Wing Chun for 10 years probably beats someone who's trained in Krav Maga for 10 years.
Anyway, I'm too busy to spend more than 4 to 6 hours on training a week, and figured Krav probably gives me the faster learning curve, plus earlier training on dealing with weapon disarms, so went with that, at least for now.
Chase
Foreign
Can you make an article on how to attract english women from the united kingdom, like do they find american men attractive
English Women
Anon-
Yes - I have that one on the article queue.
Meantime, English women aren't all THAT different from their American peers - they just have a drier sense of humor, and are a little bit softer in demeanor. They do like Americans - attractive Americans who have their fundamentals down, of course ;)
Chase
I remembered you mentioned in
I remembered you mentioned in article that a women will either be attractive to you or not from the get go and that little will change their mind because attraction is either there or not. But i was wondering how men like Style or Mystery who are not that attractive hooked women that were more attractive than they were. Can you explain this a little further?
Attraction
J.B.-
Yes, for the most part, attraction is either there or it isn't. It certainly CAN be there with women who are more physically attractive than you - if you're "kind of physically attractive" and she's "very physically attractive", that's not necessarily going to preclude her from being attracted to you if you have a lot going on. I'm assuming you're talking about physical attractiveness here - on overall attractiveness, people tend to end up with people who are similarly attractive to them overall.
e.g., a guy may be plain-looking but well-dressed, witty, and sexual, and ends up with a girl who is cute, but made up to look HOT with her hair, makeup, and clothes, and maintains an externally high-value-looking aloof appearance. The two are of roughly equal "overall" attractiveness.
The reason why I harp on fundamentals so much is that these are the things that let you upgrade the caliber of woman you end up together with. The more attractive you make yourself overall, the more attractive will be the women you get overall, too.
Chase
Gold
Ha, I was about to post the exact same gold digger prank! Lucky I read the article before I posted. I reckon that man could do pretty well for himself if he learnt what you teach.
The dirth of time and abundance mentality
hey chase, i recently read your article on cold approach. and i must say i am a huge fan of cold approach. But i would like ur opinion on this. i am still new to picking up girls and even though am practicing. I age 25 and on the verge of making some of the most important decisions of my life.. I have to juggle my university, student job, the pressure of adjusting in a foreign land as well as work on my dream of being an entreupeneur some day. But still i want to be able to sleep with the girls am attracted to. The problem is its nearly impossible for me to go out every night, i can hardly go out may be on the weekends.This doesnt allow me to have multiple options or abundance mentality... and even though i have 4 or 5 or them juggling them is such a difficulty as there is absolutely not enough time or mental space. What key factors would you suggest that would allow me to stay out of scarcity but at the same time keep a rotation of girls the few of them that you encounter...
Re: The dirth of time and abundance mentality
Anon-
Unfortunately, there's really no way to "hack" abundance mentality - you only get it by having a history of experience with women and confidence in your ability (based on actual results) to get new women in quick amounts of time.
It's the same as abundance with anything else - say, with money; the only way you can feel like $10 million is an abundant resource is if you've already made $200 million, and you have a business or contacts in place that allow you to raise $10 million at the drop of a hat, more or less.
You can will it all you want before you get there, but there's really no way to truly have abundance until you actually have abundance, as it were.
If you don't have time to work on girls, the best you can do is just keep in mind that you're emotionally overreacting - at least a little bit - because you don't have an abundance mentality on women yet, and try to logically tamp down and control some of those overreactions when you see them and can head them off at the pass.
Chase
LTR etc
On another articles comment section you were talking about how most people eventually cave into their nature and end up with kids and a long term partner etc, because that is what the brain and body want.
And I agree, you see this happen everywhere, even to the guys you swore would never have kids etc because they just wernt the type - they end up having kids.
However whilst I accept that this is a normal pattern in a healthy life, and do believe that at some point I probably will have kids and maybe even marry a girl if that's what she really desires (though marriage is definitely not something I'm sold on) I do genuinely believe that after maybe 5 years or even longer until the kids are older that in most cases people do start to crave single life again
Guys do start to crave casual sex, it's yet another natural pattern. This pattern though is one that few guys act upon. In effort to maintain a strong family.
My questions:
1) Does this not mean that there is a problem with the way we currently view family's etc, doesn't it in many ways inhibit our natural urges and tendencies, and force us to stop ourselves from acting upon them
2) Is there any research in what happens to a mans testosterone, drive & libido etc after he caves into that 'settling down' period for some time.
3) what are your thoughts on dealing with those times in a settled relationship where inevitably you end up thinking 'hmm this has been great but I really lust at the thought of sleeping around again, haven't done that for years'.
4) The act of 'settling down INDEFINITELY' to me just doesn't seem natural, I genuinely do not believe that relationships are meant to last forever, it's just human psychology, once we have had something for a while it begins to lose it value, except maybe in very rare true love soul mate style relationships that perhaps retain love over time (but I'm not even sure if these exist). So then what is the answer? Give into what we desire and go back on the prowl or what?
Guess it depends on just how long you've maintained LTR with kids, if you started when you were 40 and were with a girl for 15 years and now at 55 your having these urges but you just think ah too late for me. But if you started younger and your only 40 something is it right or wrong to chase after what you are craving?
Thanks Chase
Over the Long Term
Alex-
Good questions.
Long-term monogamy does go against our natures - both men's and women's; in hunter-gatherer groups, even where there is monogamy, there is invariably high levels of infidelity by partners of both sexes, and frequent break ups of monogamous relationships (including those with children). It's only in our relatively recent settled / agrarian lifestyles that monogamy has come to the fore, because it allows for more productive societies that steamroll their less productive non-monogamous ones.
Monogamy is a sort of "sacrifice by the individual for the good of society" type deal; your life is not quite as fulfilling, but society overall is better off and, hence, the genes that you pass on are better off too, and stand a better chance of surviving and flourishing. So it's a weird structure in a way that is at once both useful and sometimes not so satisfying.
Men's testosterone noticeably plunges in committed long-term relationships; the sole exception is among men who do not view themselves as monogamous - e.g., who continue looking for other women and who have affairs. These men do not see the testosterone drops that their more faithful peers do. Men with lowered testosterone levels presumably make for more easily-controlled mates, behave more agreeably, and end up in relationships more likely to last the test of time.
On how you deal with getting "the itch": that's got to be up to you, and what you decide is best for you, for the woman you're with, and for any children involved if it's a relationship that's produced children. There's a hard decision to make there that's going to affect everyone, and some sacrifices are going to have to be made one way or the other - because at that point, what everybody wants is no longer in line, and something or somebody has got to give. No easy answer there, I'm afraid; there are plenty of people who will happily tell you what you "should" do, but no one really has the answers. I might suggest, if the itch gets too bad, simply talking to your girl and saying, "I'm getting this itch for other women, and I'm not sure if I can control it much longer, but I don't want to hurt you, either. What do we do?" She might elect to end the relationship, or she might say or do something else that surprises you entirely. She might say she's getting the itch for other men, too - and then you'll be facing some interesting decisions about what happens next.
This is one area where I wish there was a cleaner, easier answer, but there really isn't. It comes down to "Someone's going to get hurt, and someone's not going to get what he or she wants" and maybe more than one someone if there are kids there too. We seem to be undergoing a cultural transition right now where it's becoming increasingly accepted for men and women to come together for a while, bear children, then split up again to pursue new mates, similar to our hunter-gatherer origins. However, until the transition is complete, we're facing a lot of very bristly emotional situations with a lot of expectations based on outmoded ideals that aren't anywhere near as relevant for the times today as they were in the times they emerged.
Chase
Good points
Chase,
Great points about the reasoning behind why you shouldn't throw your money around. I get a kick out seeing chumps throw money at women only to have them go home with someone else.
By the way, I've been waiting forever for the article about moving out to a new city and starting new! :) Do you think it'll be up sometime soon?
Thanks,
Henry
New City, Fresh Start
Henry-
Ah, thanks for the reminder - I vaguely remember someone asking about that ages ago (or me saying something about that), but I think that was before I started keeping track of article ideas - just searched, and it wasn't on the list. I've added it there.
As far as when it hits the site, well - if one of the other writers elects to tackle that one, it may come up sooner, but that "move overseas" article took a lot out of me on relocations for now - I spent half a day writing that damn thing (it was 14,000 words), and just thinking about another "move" article makes my stomach frown.
It'll get here sooner or later though - especially now that it's made it onto the list!
Chase
Characteristics Of Authority
Hello Chase, What are characteristics of authority? Thank you!!!!
Re: Characteristics Of Authority
V-
Think of an imposing police officer, or school teacher, or boss - anyone you instantly meet and feel some mixture of fear and respect toward. That's authority.
The main characteristics of an authority figure are mainly that this is someone who has power over you but whom you do not have power over. e.g., your boss can fire you; you can not fire your boss.
So, chiefly down to one-sided power dynamics: they can do to you, but you cannot do to them. People adore authority figures who treat them fairly and well, and they despise authority figures who do not. You might also say that being placed on a pedestal is something else that goes along with being an authority figure; you are no longer a "person", but rather a "figure" instead.
Chase
Further on LTR
Hey Chase thanks for the response to my comment on LTRs above.
Yes I agree most men will be faced with that horrible decision at some point during an LTR where their desire for new women becomes so much that they have to act upon it.
1) In another articles comment section you said that if you begin to like a girl a lot or rather if you really like her from the off you will pursue a LTR with her, but what are your thoughts on monogamy in LTRs? This girl you like would you remain monogamous with her for 10+ months
Because in my thinking , if at some point during a relationship your going to come to lust after other women, wouldn't it be a better idea to have these LTRs non monagamous from the START so that you DON'T have to face that terrible and awkward situation of explaining to a potential wife and kids that you are going to be being with someone else sometimes etc
Monogamy to me really does seem silly actually.
2) Then the problem we arrive at is convincing these potential girlfriends that yes you do like them but also that you are a man who will always at some point want other women, so let us have this relationship in a way that allows us if we want to experiment with other people. How do you inconceivable a girl that though? My thinking is that at this time in life it really isn't possible? So should LTRs really be something worth pursuing at this point?
3) Such a tricky situation still because I'll admit whilst I'd love to have a
Girlfriend and kids in a non monogamous relationship I don like the thought of her being with other men that much... So unfair ha
Fuck all that maybe I'll just stick to casual and ONS's ha much easier.
Monogamy / One-Sided Monogamy
Alex-
I'm a big believer that you want to always start your relationships off as casual / ambiguous, as discussed in "How to Start a Relationship with a New Girlfriend." After that, depending on your goals and what you're trying to accomplish, you can move to monogamy a few months down the line if you want, though it's better to keep her at least somewhat uncertain as to whether you really have hung up your single guy cape. Not freaking-out-all-the-time uncertain, but not entirely sure.
If your biggest goal socially / romantically is building your skill set with women, you should NOT do monogamy until (at least) you achieve your goals - suck it up and just tell women your life is too unstable right now to commit to anything serious or exclusive, and that you'll only end up hurting them if you try, and you don't want to do that and you don't want to lie. It'll suck to say if you find a girl you really like, but you'll also realize some pretty incredible things about how crazy attracted women get to you when they CAN'T lock you down, and how much even high caliber women whom you previously thought would "never be with" a man like that actually will be.
As far as monogamy in general, there are plenty of people (and plenty of men) who just WANT this, and if you want it, I see no problem with it... although I do recommend making sure you want it because you want it, and not because you're scared of losing a given girl and think that promising her your undying fidelity is the only way not to.
As for one-sided monogamy, when you're in a relationship with a girl and you tell her you just can't give her the kind of settled commitment she's looking for right now, if you're meeting her needs as a relationship partner, she will invariably settle into an exclusive relationship with you if she's anything other than sex-crazy. However, this only occurs after large amounts of drama and efforts to shoehorn you into the relationship structure she wants you in. If you can withstand that, eventually it settles down, she decides that you're stronger than any other man she's ever been with, and falls harder for you than anyone she's ever fallen for. Any disruption to meeting her needs though will cause all these problems to come crashing back to the fore, and if she's too open about the unconventional nature of your relationship with friends, family, coworkers, etc., or they start to pick up on it on their own, they will pressure her until she bursts. That makes this a very challenging relationship structure to run - it's rewarding, but it also takes a great deal of time and effort and emotional energy (probably why most guys just yield to monogamy - it's a lot easier, if less rewarding).
Chase
Younger Girls
Chase,
Great article, this is a very interesting subject.
Could you make an article on how to get younger girls? I know that theres not going to be too much of a difference if youve aced your fundamentals, but I remember in a previous article you said that you can get away with being more of an 'asshole' because younger girls' view on social power isnt as developed as girls that are more mature.
Would be cool to know what you think
Hunt
Re: Younger Girls
Hunt-
Sure - it's on the list! Basically, yeah - you need to be a bit more blunt, lead harder, kill some of the subtlety, and be a bit more of a dick (especially if you're younger yourself - not so much if you're older, as attainability becomes an issue here). Younger girls are less practiced socially, and need you to take charge more and show them what to do, and not use so much subtlety that you're over their heads, as can happen if you become calibrated to women in their mid- to late-20s, or older, etc.
Chase
Semi-experienced in this dating game but got stymied
Hi Chase, I figured this was a little more relevant to another article but here goes:
There' s this girl (we are both college students) that i hooked up with twice... and didnt hook up again when she got a bf. Their relationship lasted for a year but once they broke up she called me over and we had sex once. That was before the summer.. We were not in the same area so we texted each other a couple of times, met up once.. but when we got back to college after the summer break i just couldnt get her to follow any of my requests. I asked her out 4 times, shes always busy (but she is) but she never reschedules on her own volition. we were about to room together for a quick weekend getaway this week (so i was like hell yes!) , but she found someone else to room with (some girl) and she immediately changed her plans. But she keeps texting (maybe for emotional validation) so...
a) is this recoverable?
b) is this worth recovering?
Some background on this girl: I know shes a little on the party-girl side, i know a couple of the guys shes hooked up with before so I figured getting together after she turned single shouldn't be too hard but clearly this isn't the case.
Former Hookup Going Cold
Anon-
That happens when for one reason or another the girl just isn't all that excited about sleeping with you. There's not a whole lot you can do when she's already had you three times... that's the point at which, if you're giving her what she needs, she's sold on you, and wants more and more, or, if she isn't, she's ambivalent, and can take it or leave it (right now she's leaving it).
The best thing you can do at this point is get her to join you at a party where there are other attractive girls (ideally, more attractive than she is) who like you and will be flirting with you. Build some preselection, let her see that other women desire you, and her competitive instincts will come back out to play and make her want you again.
Then, next time you're in bed, really do a good job and give her a hell of an experience to turn her into a repeat customer - see these articles on this:
Chase
Hey Chase,How do you deal
Hey Chase,
How do you deal with people(friends or people not close to) who have experienced a great loss recently(death of family,lost house,etc.). People usually just offer their condolences"so sorry for your loss" or just act awkward. What is a good way to act genuine?
Also, interesting questions alex asked. I have been thinking about this a lot lately and I don't think I will ever do monogamy just open relationships. To many good women out there just to only wrestle in the sheets with one for 30 years.
I would like it if the girl pursued other men, so she is happy, my organ doesn't detach( from all her attacks), so she doesn't complain about spending so much time together(cause to much of a good thing is bad), but if you build yourself into a high value man and an amazing lover will she pursue other men or just only want you for herself?
Its possible to have an open relationship while married with kids but how viable is it? I can speculate all kinds of problems with it.
This is where I get stuck I want one thing but I don't know how good it would be with kids,lover and best friend, other lovers and all that responsibility. I will have my muse(4 hour workweek term) before I start a family so I have more time with the kids but still I just don't have enough information to make a decision.
I am making an assumption but I can't imagine you having kids while doing the whole "till death do us part" ;) so I bet we have the same problem. Please let me know if you find a solution and I will also try to find one.
Much Success,
Nick
Interesting
Yeh I find the whole monogamy/non monagamous/open relationship thing to be very interesting too.
It's hard to really decide which is the right path to take. In many ways it seems an individual thing (some guys probably would be happy with just one girl of that all they belive they are capable of) but many guys like us will always long for other women after a spell of monagamy, it's just nature.
The question is, is it right to act upon that nature.
I've kinda come to the thinking that if you let the girl know and if she is happy with a non monagamous relationship (not one where you absolutely HAVE to have sex with other people, but where the idea is open and accepted if at some point you wish to pursue) then actually I see no reason why that relationship cannot be a happy and healthy one.
The problem comes for me when kids get involved. It's your duty as a father to bring those kids up in a happy, supportive and safe environment where those kids feel secure and develop into happy balanced individuals with good morals. Can you do all that in a non monagamous relationship? Jury's out for me, would love to hear chases thoughts on this.
I think maybe this is where the sacrifice comes into play.
Accept monagamy, marriage and convention in order to bring up those kids properly
OR accept that you are just not to type of person who is meant to have kids, you have abundance mentality, you are in touch with your sexual nature, perhaps this is the curse of becoming a seducer, it does close you off to more conventional things at times. Question is will you sacrifice your freedom for kids.
For me if in the future (long way till kids yet for me) I decide that by living my life the way I want will damage my kids in any way, then actually I think I'd rather opt against kids, and I don't see anything wrong with that.
I accept most people at some point do start to desire children but I think if you have bee open to women and your sexuality for a long time I really belive that the seducers lifestyle will always be apart of you and that desire for other women will always follow you. Which is a great thing and at times a not so great thing.
Part of me strongly believes that some people just should not have kids due to personality, lifestyle, circumstances whatever.
But hey perhaps bringing up kids in a household where monogamy isn't practiced would actually turn
Out to be a good thing, perhaps it will help install different and beneficial ways of thinking in our kids, perhaps bringing up children in the way we do today is not actually the healthies thing for
Them, who knows.
Losses, Monogamy
Nick-
With losses, just say, "There's not much I can do except say I'm sorry, and offer my help if you need it or my ear if you'd like to use it," in a quiet, commiserating voice, then either sit quietly with her and put your arm around her or leave her alone (if she's really heartbroken and just needs to sob), or ask her if she wants to talk about other stuff or if she'd rather be by herself. Many people after your condolences would prefer you to just talk with them more or less as usual (just have a slight air of sadness / delicacy about yourself, but otherwise be your normal chipper self), because it's a lot easier to deal with pain if everyone else isn't standing around moping about it and making you feel miserable too.
On monogamy - let me just say don't worry about it. You're still very young, if I recall right - you've got plenty of time to figure out what you want here, and you WILL figure it out. Whom you are at 40 is very different from whom you are at 30 is completely different from whom you are at 20. When you're 20 and trying to figure out what you're going to do at 35, trust me - you're going to be very far off the mark. When you look back on the past, it's easy to see how much you've changed, but looking forward to the future, most people greatly underestimate how different they will become.
When you're a high value guy, women invariably want to lock you down. You can commence relationships where the woman is exclusive to you - because you're meeting every one of her needs - but you've made it clear you are not, but even then, you must keep that side of things completely discrete around her, because the more reminders of it she has, the more the cognitive dissonance of living in a relationship which every other human being around her in Western culture tells her is wrong, wrong, wrong (in other cultures, like Africa or the Middle East, there is not this societal pressure for monogamy, and men with multiple lovers is far more accepted; in much of Asia, it's commonly understood and accepted that men will have mistresses, although if the wives are unhappy, like any other woman, they will stray).
As for children, you can certainly have these without wedding vows - throughout most of human history, this is the way children were conceived, born, and raised, and it's quite common in many societies now to have children without marriage as well. In our current setup, these children are normally at a disadvantage because they're raised in unstable homes, so the challenge if you want children without marriage is mainly a balancing act, as well as a financial one - can you make enough money to support children you aren't with physically all the time, and hire them outstanding tutors, mentors, put them in great schools, and still be as much of a powerful presence and rock in their life as possible (and continue to have a great relationship with the mother)? Or will you have more ordinary financial means, making it challenging or impossible for you to give them the advantages money brings, and not being able to make up for some or all of that with face time either, since you are not married to the mother and are not always with her? Much of it seems to come down to money, but maintaining a strong relationship with the mother even if you aren't together (nothing damages children more than their parents hating each other - if your body is built from two people who don't get along, what does that say about YOU?) and helping and guiding children to lead happy, productive, self-directed lives goes a long way too.
Chase
Highschool Pickup
Great article, Chase! It'd be great if you could make an article about high school pickup. Thanks and I appreciate the work you have.
-Royce
infidelity
Hey chase
Ive read the article on how to prevent cheating but the reality is that people will cheat more often than not. My question is then how do you recover from being cheated on. Is it just a case of going out and getting more woman
More simply put my question
More simply put my question is how do you get over the paranoia of thinking every girl will cheat on you again after one or two have done it already
Adjusting After Cheating
Boyo-
Probably the first thing you should do is sit down and do a post-mortem on the relationship - write down everything about it: how it started, how it progressed, why things went into decline, what led to the straying. Unless the girl is crazy / a nympho, you can probably pinpoint things you did or things that happened as a result of your actions or behavior that precipitated your woman's reactions - because women are reactive, they're almost always doing what they do in response to what YOU do. Once you understand how your actions precipitated her actions, that takes a load off your mind.
The other thing to do is realize that you can never be 100% secure in a relationship - even with the most loyal woman in the world, there's still a 1% chance that a perfect storm of events occurs to put her in the position of being furious at you and wanting to quit the relationship, meeting her dream guy in an incredibly romantic scenario with perfect logistics, and it "just happening." So, you go out, work on your skills with women, get them to the point where you can replace a girlfriend with an equal or better girlfriend in a short period of time, and then the issue of losing a girl to straying becomes more a philosophical one than an emotional one.
It also helps to really enjoy being single and know you have options. If you know this, even in a great relationship, some part of you is going to long for the freedom of no responsibilities to anyone, and mountains of women to tear through 24/7 once more.
Chase
Having a problem with girls after first date
Hi Chase!
I am currently having a problem with girls after first date, especially dates during the day. I have been able to get better results when alcohol is flowing during the date but sometimes the girl only has time or only wants to do a lunch date.
I do the lunch date, and I am able to get her laughing but sometimes the conversation runs dry at the end and we leave. Then I text her a few hours later saying:
"Hey, had a great time talking with you, hope to see you around when were not busy :)"
(I realize now that this comes across as like seeking validation but a lot of times I have girls who end up thinking I'm not interested so I did this to make sure they didn't go into autorejection.)
Anyhow, I usually get very spotty interest back from the girl, even though the girl was very excited going in.
I usually attributed this to the fact I didn't escalate on the girl, but some of the these girls I dated were ultra-conservative, no sex before marriage types too so I am not really sure what is going on.
Do you have any tips of how I can troubleshoot?
Thanks Chase!
Second Date
Anon-
See this article: "3 Second Date Strategies to Make Her Flirt and Swoon" - particularly the section titled "How to Get a Second Date if Your First Went Okay."
Especially pay attention to the "trying to be nice" part (the text you're sending after the date), and the "ending the date early" part. If you're going to sleep with her, you can have a long, drawn-out date if you like, then invite her back home and wrap it up with fantastic intimacy together. If you're NOT, don't draw it out - make it short, snappy, and leave her wanting more. Otherwise, it's going to get awkward, and if she's the one who has to end the date, that means she's making logical decisions, which means it isn't "magic" - it isn't "just happening."
And women want to be with men who make things "just happen", where it's magic. If the girl has to step up and decide to do this or do that, a repeat performance becomes unlikely. You're the man - you must lead.
If you can't lead her to do anything further with you, then you can lead by ending the date and picking up again later.
Chase
How to titillate and why do lovers have an easier time?
Two questions for you today Mr. Amante.
There's alot of awesome content on this site, but there's so much material that I'm wondering if you've written an article or two that ties all the ideas together and illuminates the relationships between the various component parts? My end goal is to put women into a trance state, FAST. Like within the first or second date time frame, not over months. Make it such that they can't get enough of me, and give them extreme butterflies. It's more than just conversation and deep diving, being dominant, and leading. It's the interactivity, spontaneity, improvisation and fun factor. Show them things they never even knew existed.
Nothing against american women, but most don't excite me early on. They have alot of expectations and requirements and I have to excite them first (put in alot of effort) to get any action!! I say this because after visiting other countries, particularly Latin countries and locales, I've found that women there can be extremely exciting and fun, on their own initiative!! They just bring the energy, and ready to treat you well right away if they like you. In those Latin countries, women still make you work, but it's fun. A Latin woman will know prior to going out with you that she will sleep with you if you are manly enough, but she will make it fun for you... make it seem like you won't get any at all. She erects enough barriers to confuse you, test you a little to see what you do. But if you're confident and you 'play along' and be a little cocky and chase frame her a little, eventually she 'surrenders.'
So my goal is to learn to do to American women what those Latin women have done to me. I've visited Latin countries (Santo Domingo, San Juan, Brazil) and women that I met were EXPERT seducers. Some of them seem to live for seduction, as if making a man want them is at the top of their priority lists! So when reading material on this site for the first time, I thought back on my experiences with them...I had no clue back then (prior to reading this site) how to label the things they did to me.. but now I know that those women personify seduction. Effortlessness. Mystery. Intrigue. Chase frame. Push pull. They know to impact your emotions! How to give you just enough to excite you and make you crazy for them, but then they suddenly confuse you and are deft at resisting your initial advances. They see how you look at them, after they made you want them, and they chase frame you for the spite of it then push you away ("I know you want some of this papa, but not tonite!" And it's even sexier in their sultry accents!) They're beautiful both inside and out, and have good bodies. And the ones I've encountered had just enough attainability. But the thing is, their stuff works well on confident aggressors, and not so much on the weak type of man.
So I think that's part of the problem I run in to when I try to pull this off here in the West sometimes. A lack of sexual confidence. Some (but not all) women that I encounter here are visibly uncomfortable on the first date. Most times I am not yet able to be on auto-pilot and 'play along' with an American woman's seduction (to me women here want you to seduce them, unlike in Latin locales where if a girl likes you she will seduce you without you even realizing it).
Instead here, I have to spend time trying to calm their nerves and (re)establish any sexual vibe. I have to deep dive to learn about their stories, ask interesting and thought provoking questions (even though this sometimes gets a bit difficult if a woman is a little dull, or she provides answers that don't really spark conversation). It's like I have to persist hard sometimes just to get conversation going and flowing well. I have to cut thru bs get her to take off her masks. This takes a while. Then if i pass the initial challenge of getting to interesting conversation, then as she warms up slowly, the next challenge is trying to turn things sexual. With some women I have to remember to talk about the madonna complex bullshit and that I understand their sexuality and their need to be discreet. Another challenge is with some girls that if I'm too witty, too cocky, too soon, they tend to auto-reject or give me attitude. Obviously there are ways to deal with these things (alcohol) but it's still part of the challenge!
Another challenge is that some women here just don't take the bait and just don't respond in seductive ways. For me, I usually have to repeatedly encourage them to become sexual around me. Because if you give these women the chance, they would talk about the most boring neutral things that have absolutely nothing to do with seduction. And I have to keep remembering to twist the words that they say into sexual things, make myself into the object of desire, to flirt, to really lead everything. More so than I had to in Latin locales. And it's all doable of course, but for me it's a struggle to always have to remember the steps to take.
But my end goal is to titillate the women that I like here in America. Not just make them like me and want me, but to turn them into putty in my hands. To give them extreme butterflies. To do to them what the expert latin women have done to me. To me, this is the pinnacle of seduction. And I want to do it FAST! But the challenge I'm learning is dealing with insecurity of the women. I can't tell you if I appear effortless or not yet. Because with some interactions with some women, it's not effortless at all in my head! I'm not yet on autopilot and I really have to struggle to keep things going, to remember which steps to take, because without it, the interactions die down fast! However every now and then, the rare woman comes along where I can just be on autopilot. Invariably this woman is confident, spicy, interesting, sexually open, and ready to make things happen. I guess these are the "experienced women" you speak about in some of your articles. So how to titillate the more "girl next door" types without them first having a drink or two?
And the second question I have is, why is it that the lover guy ends up having a much easier time with women? I've noticed that when you jockey for the bf position, some women (30's and 'traditional') get emboldened and starts wanting you to "court" and chase them like it is 1800 (even though they know that they have other "hidden" suitors). Why do they make the bf candidates work so hard? Is it because they know they can get away with their shenanigans with men who aren't as bold and pushy?
However, if you manage to become the lover of these same women, and you erect a "no relationship" barrier, but you treat them extremely well when you're around they appear to become more attracted to you. Especially when you don't even try hard at all, or promise her things like the other guys who are pursuing her do. Even if you ignore her, and you erect the "no relationship" barrier, some women start to chase you down (even though they've been told that you don't want a relationship).
Why do they end up working so hard for mr. unavailable (who makes them invest with their time, emotions, thoughts (from scintillating convo) and bodies ) but they work less hard for mr. available (who is still good at conversation, and good, logical choice, only difference is he puts in much more effort than the lover because he really likes the girl)?
Re: How to titillate and why do lovers have an easier time?
Hey Breeze-
I responded to another comment posted a few days after yours on the same "where do I start" topic - we're rolling out a diagnostic quiz that gives you a downloadable eBook with links to 60 to 80 of the most relevant articles on the site most relevant to where you're at in a very navigable, useable, not-overwhelming way - that's coming out extremely soon (all four eBooks are done and on the server, just need to tie up some loose ends on the quiz tech and we're live). In the meantime, we do have some other "getting started" options, and you can get a good overview of them in this response I had for the reader with the similar question: "Re: Overwhelmed."
Getting women into trance-like states is basically down to a combination of your fundamentals, how deep and intimate you take your conversations, and how quickly and intuitively you're moving things forward (so a girl never feels like it's stalled out... which is maybe the biggest buzz killer of them all). How unshakeably confident/certain of yourself you are and how sexual your voice is are two of the bigger fundamentals for this... really strong eye contact and very close proximity (leaning in real close, and having her do the same) are quite big as well.
As for the nervousness / discomfort, it might help to think of this as a "test" - it isn't really, but it functions the same way... if a girl is nervous, and you are sexual and sexually appealing, just keep it steady or even dial it up as you go through conversation with her, and her nervous energy transitions over into excited energy. If you respond by dialing down your sexual energy, you put yourself into the "platonic" box, which is where less sexually confident women would prefer a man be - you simply need to steamroll the girl with sexuality while building a solid connection with her at the same time. If you do this properly, she'll "surrender" to the sexual vibe and say to herself, "You know what? This guy's cool. I'm just going to go with it."
If it's not effortless in your head, but you don't think you're coming off awkward or incongruent, and you're reasonably experienced, you're probably mostly effortless-looking to socially attuned girls, and cool-but-still-learning to very socially experienced ones. If a girl's nervous around you though (in the excited, "oh no I don't know how to control these feelings what do I do" sense), she almost certainly sees you as completely smooth, effortless, and well put-together.
Anyway, with naturally not-very-sexual women, it really comes down to a battle of wills - you're being sexual, she's not. So long as you can keep the conversation rolling and going deeper and deeper into who she is, the more she bonds to you, the more she will begin to yield to your frame - the only way you lose this is if you get flustered and break character, or if she's just more unflappable than you are.
As for women getting emboldened with boyfriend candidates - yes, you actually reach a point where you can see it in their facial expressions or eyes - it's like a light switch: they first meet you, and it's confusion, and they're not sure how to proceed with you, and you do or say something a little too boyfriend-y and they smile and relax and you can see in their heads they've just said, "A HA! Gotcha! You want to be my boyfriend! Great - I know exactly how to play this one."
It's almost like playing a game of chess (or any other game), where you start off not knowing how your opponent is going to proceed, but then he makes a move that shows you exactly what kind of game he's going to play - and you now know just how to beat him.
What the lover does is he keeps the girl in a state of continual confusion, more or less, as to what he will do next and what his intentions are. She's never able to say with certainty, "There - I've got it! He just wants to sleep with me once, and then he's done with me!" or, "Ah, I know - he wants a relationship with me!" Instead, she's continually strung along, trying to figure out what he's after and what his deal is and what his angle is, but she can't quite put a finger on it, and that (along with everything else about him) intrigues her even more.
Just like when you're playing that chess opponent, and you can not figure out his strategy... it's maddening to you, but also fascinating, and addictive. You've got to figure it out... you have to figure it out! You're so good at this game, goddamn it... this guy is not going to confuse you!
The fun drains out of the game the moment you know the strategy the other guy's going to follow and you know that you can beat it. So long as he's a mystery though, you're intrigued, and you can't quit playing.
Chase
Amazing Article
Chase - the amazing thing you did with this article is you accurately turned all the mainstream theory on its head on why women like rich guys. Mainstream teaching says its because the rich guys have resources and offer the woman stability and security. But you pointed out that its really the reckless spending the women like and it's just the opposite of what the mainstream teaches.
Women don't get turned on by the conservative "millionaire next door" who saves his money and lives below his means. It's actually the opposite because the conspicuous consumption is exciting and fun and demonstrates a "live for today attitude."
By the way - do you think faking it in this area would be effective? I have seen guys have a Porsche key chain when they don't have a Porsche and a replica Rolex. I realize this may not be the same as actually seeing the reckless spending in person.
Faking Conspicuous Consumption
Robert-
You know, I'm not sure... but I think it helps a little. I wore counterfeit Rolexes for much of my life, actually - I bought a fake one off a street dealer in New York City when I was 14 years old, and that one last me a number of years. Then in 2006 I bought another counterfeit Rolex in Beijing that I wore a few more years. I eventually ditched the fake Rolexes because I found them too garish / ostentatious for where I was taking my fashion sense, but back when I was a teen and much more heavily into peacocking, I tried to show my Rolex off "accidentally" whenever I had the chance to... it was my feeling back then that even if people weren't sure if it was real or not, I got a small status boost from it regardless.
When I visit China, I notice that just about every woman walking around there has a Gucci bag or Louis Vuitton boots - all knockoffs, of course, bought for a fraction of the price of the real thing, but you'd never be able to tell the difference unless you were a fashion fanatic. Generally, when it comes to figuring out if something is worth doing socially or not, if you see women doing it opportunistically when they have the chance to, it's probably a safe bet.
So, in this case, all I might say is... it probably doesn't hurt, and may very well help, though of course not to the magnitude of some of the other examples above.
Chase
Contractions
Nice article chase. Is there any particular reason you always use contractions?
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