Looks-Money-Status: Has the Game Changed? | Girls Chase

Looks-Money-Status: Has the Game Changed?

Chase Amante

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Chase Amante's picture
looks money statusThe world’s changed, and so has the game… for some men. But the changes to the game that’ve come to looks-status-money men haven’t come to all men. Why’s that so?

On my article about your opinions of women betraying your success (or lack thereof) with women, a reader writes

Hey Chase,

Comments

Good Looking Guy - Trying to Become Hot's picture

I'm glad to see that my own thoughts are extremely close to your own in this article, Chase. I get told all the time that I'm good-looking and I've been losing more weight recently and can't wait to become my own version of 'hot'.

And the one thing that stands out above all else, is that all it really does for me is get my foot in the door. Sure, because of dating apps I do get easier lays than anywhere else, but even that took a lot of learning.

Even though I plan on taking my own personal looks further (probably like 70% for me and 30% for women) I doubt I'll get too much more success then I already get at the moment through that alone. My little hypothesis, anyways.

I've worked a shit ton on my fundamentals so I probably come off a little higher status, I would assume that wealth and higher status in general are about the same as good looks. I know a guy who comes from money and basically has unlimited access to it. Yet, he struggles with women for a bunch of reasons. While I already knew that status/wealth alone (outside of certain niches, which is another story) isn't going to get you laid it was still a nice thing to witness.

So yeah, I'd say I largely agree with Chase. Up your status, up your wealth and up your looks. But past a certain point it doesn't honestly do you too much good outside of certain communities/social circles. I'd say game is more important but even then, I'd only say game is like 35% of the battle, LMS being 25% and the remainder just being right place right time (which would be Chase's 'propinquity if I'm not mistaken).

One great example Chase uses that I'd like to repeat: dating apps. I've learned a monstrous amount about how to max out results from dating apps as well as about photography because of dating apps and developed a passion for it. Plus being a good-looking guy (far from hot but working on it) means that for me, LMS is like 80% of the battle. But that's just one small little niche compared to the whole world.

Lots more to work on :)

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Good Looking Guy-

Nice perspectives here.

Yeah, I think a lot of these guys talking about looks-money-status don't know a lot of guys with looks-money-status. I've known good-looking guys, high status guys, wealthy guys, and muscular guys who on paper seemed like they should get laid, but couldn't, or all the girls they got were dogs.

What I suspect is most guys talking about LMS are envisioning a guy with good looks who is also extremely charming and charismatic and knows what to do with women. In which case, sure, of course that guy will do well. He'd also do well if he wasn't as good-looking, although the good looks help.

Yes, the X% game, Y% fundamentals/other attributes, Z% right place right time is a big part of it. I have a bit of a hard time putting precise numbers on it myself, due to how much being a zero in one category just completely wrecks your results (e.g., good game + fundamentals but you're in a funk and not going out to meet girls anywhere -- right place/time is now responsible for 100% of your not getting anything with girls; and so on and so forth). But 35/25/40 game/attributes/timing seems as fair as any to me.

Nice work on the apps. If you can get it working and funneling women to you, and it doesn't distract from meeting girls in real life, it's a good gig (I'm hard on apps, but it's mostly to break guys out of the mentality of "I've just got to get on apps, then I'll get laid!" and the follow-up mentality of "Well, I'm not getting laid on apps so I guess I'd do even worse in person").

Chase

N's picture

Thanks for the article, Chase! Your (more anthropological) pieces usually rest on a lot of historical evidence, due to which your reasoning is quite clear and predictable (in a good way, of course). This one, though, up on the introduction of the sterile libertine, had me scratching my head, out of curiosity, wondering how this archetype was linked to folks who believed that LMS was the key to success.

Cool line of thought to follow. This one certainly changed the way I though by poking holes through a few paradigms I’d internalized, despite my best efforts.

One way I’d see the LMS guys try and refute the argument is to insist that the « right kind of man » is the man with looks, status and money. Which may be true, and which, may equally not…

Anyway, important for me is how, I can be that guy..? Wondering if you could perhaps list his defining characteristics?

Thanks once again! Really interesting article, and I’m sure I’m not the only one who loves your broader/sociological-kinda pieces

Author
Chase Amante's picture

N-

Glad you found thought-provoking!

Yes, obviously, if a guy’s good-looking, has money, and has status, this is a man who’s worked very hard to maximize his attractiveness. You can fall into money… you can fall into good-looks. You’ll pretty much never find guys who fall into all three of looks, money, and status — and the guys who do tend to have it so good they screw their lives up after a certain point through sheer hubris.

You need a certain kind of drive to become a good-looking, wealthy, high status man. Most of what you want to achieve in life (women, happiness, financial security, public plaudits, etc.) you can get without having to go all out maximizing yourself in these areas.

So, generally, the guys who really push it to the hilt in those three areas tend to be men with a deep need to be as maximally powerful as they can be. A man can have different reasons for wanting that, but regardless what they are, it comes down to him wanting to maximize his personal power. In particular he is maximizing apparent power — as opposed to, say, the guy who disregards personal appearance, and focuses all his energy on becoming as politically connected as possible, so he can be the one pulling the strings on the good-looking high status guys. These are both paths to power, but they’re different kinds of power, motivated by different internal needs.

Chase

James Hunkie's picture

Sorry Chase but i still dont buy it. You've been making articles for a while now that basically showing that women just fall for this not so impressive guy here and there but defeats the whole purpose of your site, incels, rise in redpill.

Im just not buying it bro. The male sexlessness went up, virginity rates went up, birthrates have gone down, etc. Like im just not seeing it bro. If the guy in question is not Chad Thundercock its usually because he has amazing game. And the women chose him because of that.

We live in a day in an age now where most women have a social media account. And alot of people are meeting people online. When you hear alot of people talk how they met someone today its online. And girls would usually only respond to the guys who have the somewhat the same status as her or looks. And if woman is not social media much shes gonna go to places where more higher status, higher earning men go. And get them there.

I just dont buy it Chase. The average man these days is just pretty screwed man. I dont think you will ever see it because you have so far away from what you were originally with women that you cant see the struggles. It reminds of the article of you writing how you had to come to the realization that you telling guys that talking to a woman in a way is easy. But you had to remember that it wasn't very easy to begin with

C's picture

"Im just not buying it bro. The male sexlessness went up, virginity rates went up, birthrates have gone down, etc. Like im just not seeing it bro. If the guy in question is not Chad Thundercock its usually because he has amazing game. And the women chose him because of that.
I just dont buy it Chase. The average man these days is just pretty screwed man. I dont think you will ever see it because you have so far away from what you were originally with women that you cant see the struggles."

All those things you mentioned is because the "average" guy choose to be mediocre. Most guys aren't trying to get better. I've seen so many guys at my job who get no girls and instead of trying to improve their body,social skills , they waste their time playing videogames and scrolling thru instagram simping for ig models ,reading feminist blogs and spend the majority of the time on the internet instead of the real world.

So OF COURSE the average guy is screwed. They are screwed because they choose not to take the path neccesary to suceed and they deserve EVERYTHING they get. They deserve to suck. If you choose to not workout,not improve your social skills spend all the time on the internet,watch porn despite there being blogs like this that tell you how to be successful I feel NO sympathy for you. Guys like you think men are having less sex cuz women's standards have went up. You have to be absolute retard to believe this. No men stopped acting like men and became boys because they choose to listen to the small minority of rabid feminists and red pill men who associate the negative qualities of women with ALL women. Most importantly they choose to live on the internet and even when this guy tells you to stop being on the internet 24/7.This guy wrote a brilliant,articulate article and you completely glossed over it because you didn't want to look past your own bias and your ego. Because if Chase is correct that means you were wrong and you would have to face the painful reality that you were wrong and misguided. You think people only date online because of what you hear when you can easily bypass that like Chase said and meet women in real life and be above every other man and have MORE choice than every other loser out there. There are many women who don't date guys they meet online. To be one of those guys all you have to do is what Chase said in this article. But I know you probably won't. You would rather just be lazy and act like a victim because change is too hard and it's easier to blame women for you being sexless.

Jamar T Murray's picture

Dude you're rebuttal is baffeling stupid and I feel so much dumber for having read it all the way through. If I was apparently the type of guy who think I deserved to be given results without putting in the effort I wouldnt be a reading a site like this in the first place would I?

C's picture

Are u even the same person the names are different? Regardless what I said still holds true. Guys still find their way to this site and complain and make excuses instead of trying to get better and try different things. So even if u genuinely wanna get better only a few guys take it seriously and take action. Chase explained why lms isn't the only defining factor with getting women and u still said pretty much i'm not convinced because I don't wanna consider an alternative. The other stuff u said was incorrect too about the reason behind male sexlessness and people only meeting online

Author
Chase Amante's picture

James-

Who said anything about “not so impressive guys”?

Spend enough time around women spending time around men. And you will discover that women in general are not impressed by:

  • Guys whose only good point is being good-looking
  • Guys whose only good point is having money
  • Guys whose only good point is having status

There are some women who are very taken with these attributes alone. In general:

  • Very high sex drive women are easily smitten by good-looking men
  • Low class women with personality disorders tend to be hunting hard for gold
  • Socialite attention whore media addict girls are very taken in by status

Yet aside from these types of women, what you will typically see is a girl will find a very good-looking guy, be wowed by his looks for a moment, then if he does not impress with his game/personality, she will become disappointed and move on.

Same for rich men. Same for high status men.

The more impressive a man you are, the easier a time you have with women.

Unfortunately for the LMS guys, looks, money, and status are insufficient to get you there except with very high drive and personality disordered women.

You’re correct more and more people are relying on online to meet people. Women are higher status online than men are. And online, looks-money-status are the only real attraction signals to function off of. In the digital world, it really is all about LMS.

So if you’re going to do social media game, then yes, LMS will be your world.

We’ve talked numerous times on this site about NOT sharing your social media with women.

We’ve also talked about not even being on social media in the first place.

Many of the best guys I know with women lack social media accounts. The rest for the most part do not ever share their social with women they aren’t in long-term relationships with.

Modern, average men are addicted to trying to get women digitally because it feels easy. It is in fact much, MUCH harder to get women via social media sites than simply talking to them in the flesh. Women appear higher status online, have no other attractive signals to vet men by, and when that’s all they’ve got, they’re not going to be interested in all the lower status chase-y men pursuing them there.

In the real world, LMS can get your foot in the door, but it won’t make you attractive in and of itself.

If you’re living a plugged in life, however, LMS is all you’ve got, I agree.

The good news is, you’ve got a choice:

  1. If you’re going to stay plugged in, then turn yourself into the best-looking, most wealth show-offy, status-signaling social media addict around, and get that digital female attention

  2. Or you can just unplug, meet women in the flesh, get dates and get laid, and not have to worry about obsessively competing for digital status in an online world where no one really cares what you’re doing or saying anyway

I know which one appeals more to me.

The sad thing for most men is they are addicted to the online space — and in the online space, the scarcity of interested women is very, very real, and those women can all be choosy about looks, money, and status — because really, it’s all they’ve got to go on there.

Chase

Anonymous 's picture

Amazing article Chase!! You always break things down greatly.

It does seem that the men talking about LMS are talking about apps and instagram mostly. Some even say you NEED social media in this day and age.

It’s gotten so popular it’s crazy.

I had a few questions to ask:

1. How do your friends, and how should men in your opinion deal with skin stds if they get one and want to still pickup? Can’t imagine telling every single potential partner for the rest of your life. Obviously, it’s best to, but we don’t live in a perfect world and people might even tell about your condition to others. Even if they don’t, it’s like if they know, they could still do it if they want to, which is a terrible feeling to have.

I do agree about the fear of getting skin stds because somehow women can hide them and give them to others without them seeing anything on their bodies.

Then there comes the problem that no matter how few or many girls a guy lays, he can still get something, it just takes one girl. You can be a guy wanting to settle down or a guy wanting to be a playboy always wearing protection so there is fear in that.

So it’s like, how are men supposed to deal with that if they get something, how do they stop the fear and paranoia of getting them, and preferably the best way to avoid them?

2. How different and difficult is dating once you’re past your 20s when you’re fresh in pickup? Could the bachelor life be similar at all? Anything particularly different that you would have to do to enjoy it like your 20s dating around with multiple women?

3. I got out of a relationship a while ago and man has it been hard. I’ve been dealing with dating apps mostly because it’s all that’s been available to me at the moment. I also approached and went out when I could, but I haven’t had much luck and I’m starting to doubt myself a lot. I have future scarcity because I think to myself should I tie down the next woman I sleep with so I don’t have to go through this again? (I definitely don’t want to do this, these are just scarcity thoughts) My main thing is I know I don’t want to settle down yet, I have this hunger of wanting more women.

I was kind of miserable in my relationship because I kept thinking about wanting to date other women. We didn’t break up because of this, but feeling this while in a relationship doesn’t feel good, it feels like resentment of sorts. Not to her, but to me not doing what I really want. That’s another reason why I don’t want to settle down for some time because I know I’ll feel this way.

So right now, I know I don’t want to settle down for a good amount of time, I just am currently dealing with doubt and potential future scarcity.

I feel after not being successful for a while, can I really do this? Can this really work? How can I feel attractive and that women want me when I’m not getting success?

I want to keep going out and approaching. I want to keep improving myself. I just want to know how do I keep faith, hope, and be strong with minimal doubt while I keep working on this?

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anonymous-

Yeah, it’s weird, huh? This “you NEED social media today!”

I think this impression comes from men asking women out and getting the social media brush-off.

When you have girls who are disinterested in you, and you get the social media brush-off, and you tell them you don’t have social media, a lot of them will act like you’re a weirdo or not with the times. Guys see this, feel ashamed, and deduce that they must get on social media.

But those girls were never going to do anything with you anyway, even if you are on there.

The girls who are going to do something with you don’t care you aren’t on there.

As for your other questions…

Guys I know with skin STDs either go get them lasered off ASAP (if warts / molluscum) so they can get back in the field, or take medication and wait out the end of any outbreaks they have (if herpes).

The guys I know with herpes will still raw dog women anyway (albeit not when they’re in the midst of an outbreak). They just rationalize it as them not being contagious when not having an outbreak… although scientifically they supposedly still are.

Most people (I forget if it’s 70% or 90%) will never have an outbreak despite contracting genital herpes. A lot of people get it and never know they have it because they never have an outbreak. Many others get it and only ever have a single outbreak then never again. A lot of it has to do with your immune system.

So you can comfort yourself with the notion that odds are even if you pick it up it isn’t likely to ever show up.

And the others you can just get lasered off if you get them.

The one that’s the real moral problem is the non-wart-forming strains of HPV, which can lead to cervical, oral, and anal cancers in women. Most of the time you won’t even know if you have one of these; if you’re active you probably have multiple strains. They don’t test men for this and the only way to really know is if you have a girl you’ve been seeing for a while, you know she was not very sexually active before you, and she does a pap smear and they discover abnormal cells in her cervix and do a biopsy on them and tell you what strains of HPV are in them. That’s the only way.

I don’t really know what the right call is there. It’s a moral conundrum, because usually you won’t know what you’ve got there (asymptomatic in men), but if you’re active enough, and especially if you’re not using condoms, odds are you’ve likely picked something up and may be spreading it around. And if women aren’t on top of their pap smears it may even be deadly to them.

That’s the one that really keeps ME awake at night…

====

Past your 20s picking up generally gets easier but your motivation falls.

Guys in their 20s have more of an uphill battle, but they’re much, much hungrier.

Older guys are more attractive to women, all things being even — they tend to be a lot more confident, a lot busier (which leads to a lot of natural attractive behaviors), they don’t seem like “boys” anymore, etc.

But so many guys you will talk to in their 30s and 40s, even if they were very active when younger, will tell you they no longer think about women the same way or are nearly as interested in casual sex as they used to be.

So they tend to pick up more sporadically, and often go for longer stretches without bothering to pick up… because it’s just not as interesting to them.

====

Dating apps will put you into scarcity, yes. Unless you’re good at them.

I’ve experienced it myself with online — when it isn’t working, you are seeing all these women, and none of them are responding to you at all, and you really get into your head and start doubting yourself. They won’t even say “Hi!” What must be wrong with you?

I’ve heard from a variety of guys who are very good at picking up girls who went through the same thing. Especially during the lockdowns. Pre-lockdown, they could go out and pick up a girl every week or two. Post-lockdown, they were constrained to apps, and getting nothing from them. It turned them needy and put them in scarcity until they finally just deleted the apps.

So long as you’re on apps, and not killing it on them, you’re going to be dealing with scarcity.

My suggestion there is either you get really, really good at apps, so the matches and messages and dates are pouring in, or you delete the apps and stick to the real world where you can actually talk to women and get them talking back instead.

Chase

Velasco 's picture

"a lot of the sex that happens, even the casual sex, is motivated by reproductive motivations

Superficial characteristics help get a man's foot in the door. Whether the door then closes on his foot, or the girl pushes it wide open, depends on more.

She is not going out thinking, "Boy, I really need to get my ovaries off. I hope there's a rich boy with male model looks and a 9" cock who'll take me home tonight," the way a man might think about women.

I've never heard a looks-money-status guy say, "She's just looking for a good-looking man to make her feel whole again," or, "She's longing for a rich man to come along and make her feel allowed to be sexual," or, "She wants nothing but for a high status man to pick her out of the crowd and impregnate her.""

Yes sex is motivated by reproductive motivations (face, height, frame).

Yes these get your foot in the door.

And no she is not thinking that in those exact words. and neither are us for that matter.

The lie in this, is that you can fuck girls without meeting their individual prerequisite requirements (the best PUAs meet a lot of girls prerequisites because they are good looking. So for them it's a matter of not screwing it up with one of the many girls that like their look (thing with "green" girls (if we are to go by the traffic like system described by one of your writers) is the way they are described is that they are girls that are all over you from the get go. And this is obviously false. "Green" girls are just girls that are receptive to your escalation (and her receptiveness to your escalation is dependent upon you meeting her individual prerequisite firstly (another factor in this is sexual availability but that is another topic).

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey, Velasco!

How’s it hanging, man?

Yes, meeting a girl’s prereqs makes the game much easier.

That’s a big part of why we focus on fundamentals so much: get yourself as attractive as possible to start off each approach with as big of a head start as you can get.

In the old PUA community, pickups of girls who are all over you ready-to-go from the approach were considered “fool’s mate” (from the chess victory). These are nice easy layup lays but you don’t need much game for them. If you can just guide the girl somewhere private and aren’t scared off by whatever tiny token resistance she might give, your dick goes in her.

This is not a “you can only lay girls via fool’s mate” site though. You don’t need a lot for fool’s mate; just be there and make some moves.

The stuff on this site is geared toward courting and bedding all those girls who are not immediately available to you on approach:

  • The ones who are skeptical of you
  • The ones who aren’t in a horny state
  • The ones who aren’t taken in by your fundamentals

Could you get those girls more interested in you if you could push a button and become better-looking, richer, and higher status?

Possibly, maybe… depends why she isn’t interested and what motivates her in men.

A lot of the time though you are just going to have to stick it out, game her, and uncover the path that leads into her bushes ;)

And for that, the cut of your jib matters a whole lot less than the experience you’re able to create in a woman (though if you make mistakes and she has moments of questioning whether you really are the right guy for her are not — see Alek’s latest post on ASD vs. FSC — all those superficial characteristics suddenly pop back in for consideration all over again).

Chase

Velasco 's picture

"In the old PUA community, pickups of girls who are all over you ready-to-go from the approach were considered “fool’s mate” (from the chess victory)"

That's the thing. I'm not talking about "all over you ready to go from the get go"

I'm having a tough time remembering girls that I fucked that same night, that were "all over me" when I approached. Right now my only memory is of the married girl I mentioned on the forum. She turned out to be quite an attention whore and I had to deal with a lot of bullshit to take her home. That it why in my previous comment i specially said, quoting myself

"thing with "green" girls is the way they are described is that they are girls that are all over you from the get go. And this is obviously false. "Green" girls are just girls that are receptive to your escalation (and her receptiveness to your escalation is dependent upon you meeting her individual prerequisite firstly (another factor in this is sexual availability but that is another topic)"

"depends why she isn’t interested"

Either she doesn't like your fundamentals or she is sexually unavailable. Skills has a great post on the forum about the three types of girls with boyfriends.

https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/the-3-i-have-a-boyfriend-scenario...

"A lot of the time though you are just going to have to stick it out, game her, and uncover the path that leads into her bushes ;)"

More like wasted time you could have spent using it more wisely. See razorjack's post :)

https://web.archive.org/web/20190802072452/https://nextasf.com/forum/nex...

And for that, the cut of your jib matters a whole lot less than the experience you’re able to create in a woman (though if you make mistakes and she has moments of questioning whether you really are the right guy for her are not — see Alek’s latest post on ASD vs. FSC — all those superficial characteristics suddenly pop back in for consideration all over again).

Chase

Anonymous 's picture

Chase,

Would you say club game has changed because of apps? Or maybe something else? I’ve heard club game got worse because of women only needing to be on social media and dating apps to get men.

I have to say I noticed the club got weak around when tinder first came out.

What I’ve noticed is there are a lot less women, more men, more couples, and women who only want to dance with their friends. The amount of single women I’ve seen in clubs has lessen greatly.

I don’t know if you go to clubs like that to notice or if you happen to go to good clubs, but I did notice it wasn’t as good as before.

So would you say clubs and nightlife have changed?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Clubs went into decline in a lot of places after 2010-ish. It seems like it sped up about 2015-ish.

Dating apps really took off about 2014-2015. We saw a steep, continuous decline in the picking up girls space at that point too that never recovered and has worsened with time. However, the picking up girls space had already been in decline since 2009, just as clubs had been in decline since somewhere around there.

It seems to me there was already a move away from interest in clubbing, picking up girls, and all things dating — then apps came along and made that worse.

Often these things are generational. In the late 1970s, the discotheque scene was falling apart until Saturday Night Fever came out, which revitalized nightlife and led to a surge in disco-goers and a bunch of new venues springing up all over.

In the 1990s nightlife was apparently pretty dead, I’m told. In San Diego, for instance, the Gaslamp District was a seedy red-light district filled with strip joints and run-down buildings in the 1990s. Then nightlife and going-out behavior surged, and by the mid-2000s the Gaslamp had become this luxurious nightclub/restaurant-filled going-out haven filled with people dressed to the nines, hot girls in skimpy dresses, and what have you. Then around the late 2010s it began declining again.

At some point nightlife will come back again. Might not be for a bit though.

I would also note that you need to be very sensitive to venue changes over time. Most venues don’t stay steadily good over years. If you find yourself going to the same venue you did years ago, one that used to be good, but now it isn’t, often that means the crowds have changed and you did not adapt.

I’ve had times where I was going out in a place, and I found a venue that was divine… easy to pick up in, lots of hot single girls… but then a year later it was getting worse and worse. So you go scouting the city, trying out all these different venues, and maybe venue #15 or venue #20 you try, you discover one as good or almost as good or maybe even better than that old venue you liked in its prime.

You really need to be going around a lot, exploring venues, and keeping your ear to the ground for places, because of how crowds shift. Places that were good before may not be now; places that were meh before can sometimes suddenly get much better.

But yeah, overall, nightlife has declined.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t good venues and you can’t pick up at night, though.

You still can. As Alek noted in his series on it, in many ways nightlife’s gotten easier if you’re good with girls.

Chase

Lazar's picture

I was reading about great seducers of old times and I was often awed by how they seduced woman of highest status and wealth, despite being very poor themselves. And these woman literally adored them and provided them with money and social status which they lacked. So it's definitely not only about these two traits when it comes to seduction. Though I'm not so certain about looks...

I did quite a bit of research on Biron and Maurice de Saxe and they both seem as fascinating examples of man who not only seduced elite woman by the sheer force of their personality and charm, but also managed to profit handsomely from these affairs.

Several times you mentioned Casanova, and I think you said you read his memoirs, so I'm interested to know whether you have perhaps considered writing an article about him and methods he used. It's XVIII century game, but I still found him and his work enchanting and possibly superior to modern dating advice, woman's psychology wise. I actually tried to break down and analyse his methods in one writing of mine, but it would be interesting to see your take on Casanova and his life. Like you did it with new and old Hollywood stars.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lazar-

There’s a phenomenon there where women who are already wealthy and high status often care less about a man’s wealth or status when selecting lovers. The rich girl shagging the pool boy, for instance.

They may prize looks more, since their material needs are met — i.e., wanting a good-looking boy-toy to show off. Though not always… there are ugly seducers who shag rich/high status women. e.g., Rasputin’s alleged affair with the Russian empress (that said, Rasputin was a guy with excellent game).

Maurice de Saxe — just looked him up; interesting ancestry and issue. He was the product of an affair between a Polish king and a Swedish/German noblewoman. Then went on to sire a daughter in an affair with an actress (plus a son… born by his wife?). Don’t see anything on his love life; I presume that’s in biographies of him.

I read the abridged memoirs of Casanova. It’d be interesting to read the full thing (the abridged version cut out most of his seductions, while still leaving some of them in), but it’s massive. It’s been some time since I read it though — I’d need to reread, and probably read the whole thing (it’s a pity there’s no collected volume purely of his seductions). Not sure when I’d have the time for it though. But I agree, a proper analysis of his methods would be interesting.

Chase

W's picture

Chase simple question should us in this community feel bad for the men stuck in that unhelpful pattern of being sucked into the internet,listening to women and bitter misleading red pill men,spending all their time on unhelpful persuits like social media and porn? Or have they reaped what they sown? Whether these guys know about useful sites like this or not?

I'm not a chad and I haven't even suceeded with cold approach yet,but I can't help feeling disgusted by the mediocrity,softness and the ignorance of men of this day and age. I know I should be grateful because that makes it easier on us guys who are willing to cold approach. Cold approaching has made me more hardened and edgier whether it's excessive and I need to dial it down to blend in with regular people i'm not sure,but I still have empathy for guys who are lacking sexually.
Is feeling sorry for men who are unwilling to change a waste of time? Should we just focus on ourselves and just appreciate the fact that we can come out on top and have a significant advantage over every other man in the dating market if we stick to the process and continue to improve over time?

I just don't want gurus like you to retire the dating industry anytime soon because of all these uninspired,unmotivated men on the internet disregarding your solid advice. I know at some point you'll move on and do other things like every other dating coach eventually,but how many guys can fill the shoes of someone who's invested 10+ years into learning dating and women?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

W-

I will just say that at this point I have spent a great deal of time reading Greek, Roman, Chinese, and European works on moral leadership, not to mention great religious texts (the Christian New Testament and the Buddha’s Pali Canon), and there is a similar realization you draw from all them: people in general must be led, and they must be led by moral leaders who are looking out for them the way a parent looks out for his children, otherwise they will be led astray.

During chaotic times (such as our own), when the leaders are weak, corrupt, and inept, the people are preyed upon by various forces and fall victim to negative influences. There is not much you can actually do against this to help people in general. Once corruption takes hold of a civilization’s institutions, it works overtime to squelch any kind of attempt at moral leadership, which presents a dire threat to it (i.e., people become gain-obsessed, rather than honor-obsessed, and enrichment of the elites at the expense of the common man takes over). It’s very rare for reform efforts to ever work; generally the reformers end up smeared, accused, and executed. Usually you just need to wait for the current system to weaken itself so thoroughly that it either implodes in its own right or is unable to resist being toppled by invaders/internal revolution.

Then, with some luck, the new system that rises in its place has moral leaders at the helm and shepherds the people properly, and you get a golden age for a time. (but eventually the cycle begins anew… corrupt people work their ways into power, gradually corrupt all the institutions, lead people astray, and the system decays until it too implodes or is toppled, replaced by something shining and new, ad infinitum)

So — I think you should be sympathetic to people who are trapped in apathy, frustration, incapability, and ignorance, yes.

At the same time, you also must realize the limits of what you can do for these people. You will hear them complaining about how hard life is, or how much life sucks, and this and that, but even if you know how they can live the life they want, and if you stepped into their life you could yourself steer them there, they are simply not in a place to do that themselves. They will fight you on it, disbelieve you, and refuse to listen to what you have to say.

You cannot talk to them about higher virtues to motivate them, either, because those have been stamped out of the society. All they have is low-level drives they are trying to satisfy in ways the society has approved of, which typically are far better for those at the head of the society than for the masses of individuals.

You can’t let that embitter you toward them though. Life is short. Have sympathy for them, but don’t get caught up trying to save them all.

From a more spiritual/philosophical point of view… if you believe in life as a place for spiritual development… then each of us is exactly where he needs to be, learning exactly whatever lesson he needs to learn at that stage in his development as a soul. Everyone is dealing with some kind of problem, some trap, that is of his own creation. He cannot get out of it until he realizes he holds the key to his cage and has held it all the while. Until then, people coming by to tell him, “You hold the key in your hand! Look at your hand, the key is right there!” sound like crazy people. He will ignore them and write them off until he has some kind of personal breakthrough — which he must experience himself; no one can just give that to him — that allows him to start looking around and seeing the things he was previously blind to.

So, if you ask me… be sympathetic.

But don’t get caught too long trying to save those who don’t want to be / aren’t ready to be saved.

And yeah, as for me… I won’t stick around forever (I’ve actually tried to semi-retire twice already — once in 2015 and once in 2018 — both times the site wasn’t ready to run without me at the helm). But when I do move on, it’s not going to be due to disappointment with not having reached enough people — I have, and actually did a lot more than I intended to… I just meant to write my book, put it out there, then disappear from the space back in 2011.

It will only be because it is finally time to move onto my next mission :)

Chase

Gaurav 's picture

chase,
you've mentioned several times that after you graduated college, you spent years befriending people with no or low empathy, got bruised a little bit but learnt alot about being asserive, aggressive, bold.
how do i put my self in such situations? how do i find such ppl?
any specific tips

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Gaurav-

Well, the handy thing about such people is they tend to be on the hunt for “trainees.”

Low empathy, assertive, successful people tend to burn through their relationships, easily tiring of ordinary people’s waffling about things, while at the same time fighting with and blowing up at other low empathy, assertive people, with whom they cannot get along.

If you can be the guy who simply lets them lead on things they care about leading on, and will generally say “yes” to any new adventure (with a few exceptions — e.g., I’ve repeatedly turned down hard drugs from friends like these without it hurting the friendship, but I’d be down to hit up whatever venue with them, pick up whatever girls they wanted to go for, take whatever vacation, chill out with them and drink and talk, etc.), they will tend to like having you around.

My article on finding mentors should be helpful for this.

As for finding them… I have always just kept a lookout for people who are clearly active, who (unlike the vast majority of people you will see anywhere) are carving their own paths, not conforming, and seem both driven and opinionated. There are plenty of opinionated people who lay around doing nothing; I’m not interested in those people. And there are driven people who are driven to do the same thing everyone else is doing; I’m not interested in those people either.

But driven non-conformists, now those people are interesting.

They tend to stick out, too. And again, often they are happy to meet you, and may become fast friends with you, because, again, most people either aren’t on their level or they can’t maintain relationships with them.

Some of them I have met in bars, partly because I used to spend a lot of time in bars. One I met in university; some I’ve met through work. Some I met via forums. Some via day game.

You can meet people anywhere, really; there will always be driven non-conformists around somewhere. You just need to look for people who seem to really stand out in some way, then chat them up and see if your initial impression was correct, and that they are both a.) driven and b.) opinionated with less-conventional opinions or walks-his-own-path opinions.

Chase

anad's picture

I've regularly noticed you talking about facial expressions, voice, walk which i personally think not that important or maybe completely useless (as long as they are no completelyt weird)for attracting girls. (posture, facial hair, hairstyle, fashion i can understand)
i also think you talk too little about things like physique RELATIVE to shit like facial expression, voice, walk blah blah blah. is it because people will move away from this site if yoyu start focussing on how improtant being in shape is?
Also your articles onbeing smooth and edgy contradict each other, also i don't think those articles were practical enough, exactly how would you apply those tips on day to day life??
i hope (even though my tone was rude) you take my crticism seriously and well.(you do generally)

thnx in advance

Ben's picture

This is a site that teaches things that aren't really found elsewhere, and are in Chase's (and the other authors') domain of expertise. You should go to a bodybuilding, calisthenics or.. etc site for how to build a better bod. There are a few dedicated articles and mentions across the whole site, more than that would be excessive here.
This site is where you come to learn all the facets of social interaction, and facial expressions are part of that.

The styles are things you do if they suit you, and are often mutually exclusive

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anad-

No, it’s because physique matters comparatively little.

Obviously, you can’t be obese. But of the guys I have known who were the best seducers, and who got the best-looking girls, they were almost to a man either reed-thin or skinny-fat.

The first guy I ever knew who was enormously muscular was a guy named Mike, with whom I attended several out-of-state training sessions when I was a salesman. Mike was a roidhead with huge, hulking muscles and intimidated the heck out of me. On our first night settling into the hotel room, when I had only just met this guy, he broke down sobbing about how women did not want him. I was a skinny 19-year-old kid who had zero experience with women and here was this huge, muscular guy who must’ve been 30 or so bawling his eyes out about being unwanted by women. I freaked out wondering if this guy was going to get desperate and pin me down and rape me or something.

I tried to console him by telling him, “You’ve got huge muscles and zero body fat. That’s really attractive to girls! Just go to any bar, man, you should be able to get laid like that.”

His response was to tell me, “I can’t, man, I can’t! I tried! I tried so many times! But women just don’t want me!”

I ended up taking him to a strip joint I’d found the last time I was in that town just to try to make him feel better.

A year later I started college, and I used to see all these really muscular guys walking around with short, fat women. Then I’d go to the gym to lift weights and there’d be super jacked guys working out with ugly girls they were obviously dating/hooking up with.

It’s not like there was a shortage of hot girls there. There were a LOT of hot girls at my school. It was a big school with more women than men. And tons of hotties.

It made me feel worse than anything, because I started working out thinking, “When I get jacked, THEN I’ll be able to get girls!” only to discover all these big muscular guys were banging fat & ugly girls.

The only big guys I saw who were getting hot girls were on the football team. And actually it was only really the quarterback I saw with really super hot girls (of the kind you would actually envy). He was a dumb, but nice, but also intimidating character, who was ripped, tall, high status, and cool.

I had a couple of black friends who were super ripped and did very well with women too. One who was clearly on gear judging by his size and zero body fat. There’s also Hector Castillo on this site who’s built a fair bit of muscle up, though he was pulling long before that, and Joe Ducard and William Gupta, both of whom built up muscle. Will talks about the point of diminishing returns with that here.

Otherwise, every guy other than these I’ve known who is good with girls has been skinny or slightly pudgy with no real muscle development.

And I started picking up girls when I was overweight. I used to think I was 25 lbs overweight, but after recently gaining weight then going on a weight loss tear I’m down at my all-time adult low weight and realize I probably still have about 8 pounds to lose before I’ll be thoroughly trim. So in fact back when I started I was about 35 pounds overweight. And guess what? Fat-boy Chase was still getting laid anyway — I was ONS’ing girls from nightclubs and banging fashion models and nailing hot girls on the beach with my fat face and big sloppy potato chip belly swinging back and forth, and I took a beautiful girl as my girlfriend whose uncle was the Secretary of Defense for a Latin American country, all before I ever started slimming down in 2008.

So, yeah.

I do think physique is a nice fundamental — if you can build muscle I think it’s great. I’d love to have bigger muscles. Just isn’t worth the time for me I could spend on other things.

I definitely recommend getting slim though — it’s not hard (just takes some self-control) and you look WAY way better when slim.

In fact, I see a lot of guys do “bulking” to get big, where for the most part they’re just bulking their faces and guts. If you’ve got big arms but a fattie face and fat gut you still don’t look that good.

Even still, I see plenty of guys like this who pull, and ripped, trim guys who don’t.

Physique’s worthwhile if you can swing it.

But thinking being ripped is more important than being sexy is just getting you mixed up.

Chase

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