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There’s
little more frustrating than that guy demanding you prove
yourself to him, or that girl challenging you to show her how badass
you are.
It always feels uncomfortable and icky when people do this to you, but you may feel pressured to respond... or not feel like there are really any valid other options to do BUT prove yourself or look “disproved.”
And then, when you prove yourself? Either the other person dismisses your proof and tells you “Not good enough”, or you get the slow clap “I’m impressed” response that drives you nuts – either way this other person asserts his superiority.
For all you care, he could have commanded you to be a good monkey and dance, and you (unhappily) obliged.
Obviously, tap dancing on command isn’t the way to handle this one.
Instead, you must understand how to deal with it when it arises, and you must understand what prompts it in the first place.
Comments
but what happen when you are
but what happen when you are new in a social circle (people still have a blurry image of you and there's no consensus yet) and someone from that circle doofus you or attack you verbally, how to respond so you can have the sympathy and respect of the group?
Shrug it Off
Hey Moon,
I would definitely suggest the pay grade here. The last thing you want to do is come off as a try hard. It's completely unnecessary. A lot of times the concern really isn't that realistic anyway. Just blow it off and not very about it. If it comes to be a problem, throw it up to the group and let them answer.
Just Dave
Mindset Shift
For me the biggest impact on life an interactions was one thing:
Are you choosing bitterness and shit?
OR...
Are you choosing value and excitement?
And whenever I am faced with a choice it helps me to throw out dumb beliefs and then I don't need to prove myself to anyone but myself, this is when I win.
So this mindset shift is big. I imagine bitterness and shit as some strange continent in my world and every time I visit it - I feel bad and my life gets worse so I go there as seldom as I can. This way I see others coming to their bitter and shit continents and I stay away unhurt when they try to tear me down. It feels like being somehow strong and happy. And finally getting things done, because I can't choose to eat shit when I can eat cakes. I can't go and watch porn when I can get real girls. This is somewhat awesome when you need to prove something only for yourself and you know that any social circle is not the ultimate environment you can be in. ;)
Healthy Mindsets
Hey Anon,
That's great, I'm glad to hear that things are going great for you. When you remove unhealthy thinking from your life, your life gets better as a whole.
Just Dave
Letter Writing Help
Hey Chase and team,
Your website has been a fountain of knowledge and interest for me personally so I just wanted to thank you before I greedily ask for advice. I'll explain the situation first and then ask you my questions afterwards.
There is this up and coming singer/musician who has done some tours in the US and been to Canada and the UK several times, got probably 10 million as a fan base. So I'm trying to establish to you that she's not huge but she is somewhat high profile, kind of. She does receive fan letters but probably not a ridiculous amount, I'd think maybe a few per week.
What I want to do is write her a letter that will be unlike any other letter she's received. Something that's very interesting, funny, relatable, powerful, emotional, a letter with a nice range to make it an adventurous experience. I know for a fact that if I write the "perfect" letter that my goal will be achieved which is my motivation. My goal is get as close to that "perfect" letter as I can to become friends, because I think it would be too difficult to have my goal as trying to get into a relationship with her, for the first** letter, unless you can convince me otherwise (because I would actually like to be in a relationship with her).
** I figure that I have one chance, it being the first letter, to NAIL that first impression and if I do it correctly she'll write BACK and if she writes back WITH questions for and about me, expecting that I reply to answer them then I have succeeded. The connection is made, if she is interested enough to want to hear my answers and enough to want to know more about me then I have her "hooked".
Now to you it may seem like one of those "everyone's in love with celebrities", "everyone thinks they're perfect", etc... but I'm going to be cliche and try to tell you why it's different in like 3 or 4 lines. I have rigorously and brutally evaluated what I want in a partner, the qualities, attitude, passion, mindset, spirit, heart, appearance, and personality as a whole and this girl for some reason knocks off every single one of the things that I'm looking for.
I acknowledge that sometimes this "perfect match" feeling is just discovery excitement that's only temporary. Like how a guy and a girl passionately love each other the first few months or whatever of a relationship and feel like they could get married but come a year everything is different and the magic is gone. I thought this might be it but I've known about her and thought she was fit for me for around 2 years and that feeling's been unchanged even while I've been sleeping with and dating other girls.
It's not affecting my life in a negative way, or keeping me from the women all around like it is if you have that "One girl mentality" "can't get her out of my mind thing" that you wrote an article about. I'm trying to prove to myself why she isn't a perfect match but I can't haha The more I look for evidence to back up why it's all crazy and not worth pursuing the more I find evidence that I can relate to her and things that we directly have in common. It's one of those "maybe I'm that one in a million" and I want to at least give it one great try just to see (because this girl honestly could have ANYONE in the whole f**king world and she's still single still waiting), this is cheesy but with everything I know she appears to be my counterpoint.
As any good reporter/journalist extensively researches their client or interviewee as have I on this singer/musician so that I can subtly and suggestively implement the the things we share, and have in common (to give me an edge) into the letter but in a sneaky way without it seeming weird that I know more about her than she does about me (AT this current moment, I want to reveal enough info about me in the first letter that by the end she'll know as much about me as I do about her.
Hopefully you find this scenario unique enough to help me out, it'd mean a hell of a lot and would be a huge testament to your character and willingness to help your viewers. Finally here are my questions with which I would like answered along with any other tips, advice, things to keep in mind.
QUESTIONS:
1. How can I remind cool, mysterious, aloof (sprezzatura, least effort) while providing her enough info about me to balance things out?
2. I don't want to lay all my cards out on the table but I have to presume that she will only ever receive one letter from me, what sorts of information do you think NEED to be included and which should be left out?
3. Length?: short (1500 words or less) is easy to read and easier to keep reader interested however it doesn't allow for much info/stories/jokes etc... Long is the more preferable choice I think for what I'm trying to achieve (can't make the letter unlike any other if it's really short) but the obvious catch is keeping her interested and entertained. So what length (how long is too long?) and how to keep her interested in a long letter?
4. How to judge if your bits and jokes that are meant to be funny actually are to others? Because humor lessens the awkwardness and tension so mine is chalk full of it. I have an excellent sense of humor and it appears funny to me but.
5. Do you agree that to make it a "one of a kind letter" that discussing, relating, sharing, and telling things to her that no one really does is important if those things have meaning to one or both of us?
6. I feel like I should keep away from the mainstream stuff ( ex She has gorgeous but really famous hair) I have a million things to say about her hair but every other letter will talk about how beautiful her hair and face are so would it be better to omit that and tell her that some small detail not many people notice is beautiful like how she loves to wear black nail polish that it gives her a sharp enhancing look?
7. Format and structure of the letter to best make her feel relaxed and comfortable, at ease immediately? I have all my info stories etc... all of it cut up into little paragraphs and sentences so all I need to do is order them correctly, what do you propose?
8. How to not seem try hard but make it 100% unique, different and adventurous? (or should I really show the effort I put into it so she can appreciate it more and feel the need to return it with an equal level of effort?) Like I'm thinking of putting in easter eggs or secret stuff that's fun and isn't too complicated.
9. In this particular situation what are some of the important rules in terms of game that I should focus on in the content of this letter?
10. How to avoid any weirdness, awkwardness with the content and or delivery of the content in the letter? What subjects and or things are best to avoid?
11.What things do you think need to happen for her to write me back with questions? And do you think it's possible to get a girl at least a little romantically interested in you via one letter?
12. If you had to pick one thing for me to focus on in the letter what would it be?
13. She's kind of religious I'm pretty sure, I'm very very much not religious, should I just leave that out or hint/throw it in a few times so she thinks I am. (But I would go to church every sunday for the rest of my life in a heartbeat if it meant I could be with her, that's saying a lot)
14. Is it difficult for you to answer these questions because you have no idea who the singer/musician is? Would you need me to describe her through email?
15. Would you like to read over my half done letter so far? My email: alwond@hotmail.com
Sorry this so long but it's extremely important to me. If it's too much tag team it with a bunch of other writers on the website, turn it into a team challenge or something to test all your combined skill. Anyways thank you!
Cheers,
Jon
Forwarded
Hey Jon,
I'm going to forward this comment to Chase.
Just Dave
Root cause of try hard behavior?
To girlschase
I read this article as stop being try hard stop seeking validation from others. This comes from a position of strength where we can say fuck you to other people's opinions and negativity and instead have a strong sense of self.
But it seems sometimes that america is set up in a way where a lot of people have an internal belief that they're special and better than most others, when in fact most people are just commodities. It takes hard focused work to be better than others, being the best doesn't just happen because your mom told you so. I've met many people who act like elitist snobs (could be a dc thing), they only show signs of having chinks in their superior armor when they are faced with someone with superior frame control and who isn't afraid of being a real asshole. And some people have cognitive dissonance (that they probably aren't aware of having) between their internal belief (I am amazing!!) and the external world of people's opinions (you ain't oshit, prove it). Advertisers are keen on this fact and prey on people's desire to feel important (buy my bmw and have your neighbors be in awe of you!!).
So for your readers to implement the teachings of this article, automatically without having to think about it, one big help would be to stop seeking validation period, to have a mission and purpose in life that is greater than people's opinions. We need to have a bulletproof idea of ourselves that doesn't fluctuate with opinions of the prevailing public.
So If possible, could you touch a little bit more and share some thoughts on how people should go about decoupling their sense of self worth from the feedback (negative or positive) from people around us? Some people needvalidation in order to feel special, amazing, beautiful, important. When they don't get the validation they're seeking then they don't how to feel about themselves. This leads some people to a self-reinforcing cycle of seeking validation and they become a slave to other people's opinions and they have a perpetual hope of seeking the esteem of others by resorting to try-hard tactics such as those mentioned in this article.
For people to fix this problem, they need to address the root cause. but deep into the fabric of our "meritocratic" society is an undercurrent of comparing and contrasting to other people. A lot of People just aren't so sure of their self-worth these days...when having to compete for status, jobs, friends, mates, and so on. So what's your take on how people can become more secure in themselves, and tune out negative opinions of those around us who have a seemingly incessant obsession with status and comparison?
Noted!
Hey Breeze,
I will let Chase and the other authors know about your request.
Just Dave
Validation-Seeking
Breeze-
Well, the problem with validation-seeking behavior is that it's part and parcel with doing something new.
Not until you're already quite successful at a thing do you stop seeking validation so much.
Validation-seeking is really a behavior of assessing how well what you're doing works. People look for approval because they want to know if they're being effective. The only people who do NOT seek validation are those who are either so crazy successful already that they don't need to know they're doing it right - they swim in an ocean of validation, and at this point, anyway, they DEFINE "right" - or the people who are missing that "switch" in their heads that makes them care about obtaining validation (like people with Asperger's syndrome, oftentimes). People who do not seek validation typically have a difficult time learning intuitively because they don't process feedback from others in a way that's useful for course correcting at an emotional level; they have to process everything purely rationally, which is inefficient from a learning standpoint (though provides some interesting benefits at the higher levels of skill development).
e.g., compare the little child to the old man. The little child is so validation hungry that the first few years of his life shape what his attitude will be like toward the world probably for the rest of his days. The old man, conversely, could be booed and rejected by everyone he meets and he won't much care because his impression of himself has already been shaped by a lifetime of experiences.
While there's no shortcut to getting over validation-seeking, there IS a way you can shorten the amount of time you're stuck with it: cram as much varied, intense, difficult experience into your life as you can handle, and force yourself to be the lost-at-sea newbie in as many varied situations and experiences as you can until you are an expert at damn near everything.
The man who's been everywhere long enough to be comfortable everywhere no longer seeks much validation because he's already been through the validation-seeking stages in each of those places, and already knows what's the "right" way of doing things in them and what the "wrong" way is.
The other alternative is not ever investing your identity even an inkling in anything. e.g., imagine you stumble into a Brony convention and a crowd of fat, pimply Bronies surrounds you and starts jeering at you with, "Loser! You don't even know who Whimsey Weatherbe is!" You're not going to care and are going to think these guys are losers. In this case, you're not in need of validation. But if you start hanging out more with the Bronies, and you start watching the My Little Pony TV show, and you start to get into this, suddenly you'll start to feel bad that you don't know who Whimsey Weatherbe is, and you'll want to prove to the Brony community that you know just as much about My Little Pony as they do. So then you'll start doing things that seek validation from that community. Eventually, when you reach a place where you're respected within it, you stop seeking validation so much because now you know that everyone else knows you are the MAN when it comes to My Little Pony. Maybe eventually you become a writer on the My Little Pony show and are responsible for some well-received episodes, and at that point, since you more or less define the phenomenon, you're free from all validation when it comes to Bronieism.
Anyway, I could write more on this, and it might make for an interesting thing to talk about, if not highly actionable (aside from get more reference points ASAP in whatever you'd like to be validation-seeking-free from). Maybe I'll do a piece on it, but this comment sums up the lot of my thoughts on it.
Chase
Yes Please
I would very much like an article on this
One must think one what kind of validation-seeking they're doing
How do you define validation? To me there's multiple kinds of validaiton: There's the unspoken validation where you act and then you see how people respond to you, you pay attention to their non-verbals, and you see if you can get them to comply or buy in to your frames. And then there's explicit validation where people overtly praise you, or say in-so-many-words that they're in awe of you, etc.
The kind of validation I'm speaking about not waiting for is the explicit kind where others around you praise you and say good things about you (you can still be successful in achieving your goals even in environments where people are hostile/indifferent to you). I'm thinking about about not seeking explicit validation (aka praise) those who dislike you, have negative opinions, or hate you, or are callously indifferent to you (even though you'd like to win some people over and have them say positive things about you).
In my view, people need to be aware of what validation-seeking behavior looks like, whether there are any benefits to such behavior in certain contexts, and when such behavior is detrimental to progress and how to put a stop to it when it crops up. Not being aware of such things can lead to fear which then leads to inaction or "acting fake" which then leads to stagnation/lack of desired results.
The perspective I'm thinking about is how some people let the fear of the negative opinions of others impede their risk taking and ultimately their success. Some people so fear criticism and ostracism and standing out from the crowd that they proactively go out of their way to NOT take risks, be different, speak up candidly in group discussions, be "cool." Instead they adopt strategies like people-pleasing and stunt their growth because because it takes experience (and the good and bad feelings associated with them) to learn new effective strategies to grow and go on to be successful. If you're afraid of other people having negative opinions of you (and you instead seek their validation/praise), then they hold a certain power over you. The coolest dudes around seem so cool because they (visibly) aren't seeking anyone's validation: they already know what to do to be praised (they know how to be trendsetters and get people talking positively about them even when they aren't around). But it does take WORK to get to that point both internally (beliefs, abilities, thoughts, desires), and externally (social behaviors, initiating conversations, conversational ability that leads to results, etc).
You've spoken very eloquently before about the moral police being "level bosses" and that secrecy or frame control are viable weapons against those bosses. But another level boss for some people is "the negative opinion of others." Some people never begin their journey on novel situations in an effort to avoid the discomfort of dealing with people's negative opinions. This, in-part, is why (I think) so many dudes in America are beta males with women, because they fear losing their girlfriends and having to go back to level 0 and go find another woman all over again. I blame mainstream dating advice and tv's sitcoms for much of this subservient male behavior...
But there are other contexts besides seduction that are novel for people and explicit validation-seeking-before-finding-sucess is not healthy for them at all. For example, some of us do not live, work, or go to school in environments where the majority people that are around us share our same race/culture/beliefs/ideals, or even want to be around us in the first place. Imagine, for example, a young black/latino dude that attends a near all-white elementary school. Depending on where this guy is in America, he may encounter many kids who may tell him that they were told by their parents they can't play with kids of certain races. Should this guy seek validation/praise from his peers, when many of those around him aren't looking out his best interests or success?
Perhaps explicit validation seeking (praise/awe) is a good strategy when others around you will help you grow, and will cheer you on when you win, and reign you in when you're stumbling out in left field. But if you're in certain cutthroat environments where you're of one race/gender and the majority of those that are around you (secretly) hate your kind or are at least very indifferent to your existence, they're not looking to give you explicit validation (praise/awe) on your effectiveness. In fact, many times, they're looking for you to fail. So to find success in these jungles (as I like to call them), you have to blaze a trail many times WITHOUT people's explicit validation. Because if you wait for it, you could end up expending alot of energy trying to win people over to your side while getting little in the way of returns on your investment (people still talk shit behind your back or set you up to fail).
Sometimes in these jungles, finding success means you have to be the loudest or most creative voice in the room to be heard and understood, or you have to be much more aggressive in your frame control or pursuing opportunities than others around you because gatekeepers of a different race/gender aren't looking to give you any opportunities. Sometimes it means being very articulate and having to frame things in ways where you put tons social pressure on gatekeepers (professors, bosses, etc) in order to be heard and get what you want. I suppose everyone has to go thru the normal reputation management program (focusing on being competent and delivering superior results)to be seen in a good light. But when there are stigmas associated with your race or gender, and you have to function in an environment where you're very much so in the minority, you don't necessarily start at the same starting line as certain certain others; and explicit validation-seeking isn't a path that is going help going to help you find success.
And also people seek explicit validation (praise/awe) in many different ways. For example, some people want to be held in high esteem, and be thought of as important, special, or somehow amazing. They have a belief in themselves that they are somehow special and not a commodity and they need to be explicitly validated on this belief. They're seeking reactions, not results. So to support this belief/desire what do some people do? Spend top dollar to own (and SHOW OFF) the latest trendy coat, suit, luxury vehicle, smartphone, etc to get other people to be in awe of them. "Validate my importance" is the name of the game, and some people trade their souls and their money for a fleeting feeling of being held in high esteem. And capitalists know it and prey on it. Some people want to be in a position where other people envy them... this gives them validation. But is this a healthy lifestyle to live??
But at the end of the day, dominance is finding a way to win.... but I think people need to think consciously and critically about exactly what it is they're trying to win (is it fame? status? power? making others envious? or something more tangible and beneficial to society). Once people know what they want, then they need to think about how they will go about finding a winning strategy to win. Validation is needed (feedback loops), but there are different kinds of validation, and seeking certain kinds of validation may be unhelpful in the overall big picture of accomplishing one's goal. I look forward to more dialogue and/or an article. I love your blog man!
Validation
"and some people trade their souls and their money for a fleeting feeling of being held in high esteem. And capitalists know it and prey on it. Some people want to be in a position where other people envy them... this gives them validation. But is this a healthy lifestyle to live??"....This is gold I hope its explored in further detail
Reputation Management in Social Circle
Hey Chase and Dave,
When I'm in a social circle situation, how do I not be a doofus? Of lately I have learnt a lot as to what my flaws are. Based on feedback from girls, these are my main sticking points:
- Being a Terrible Listener
- Asking questions that get "No's" regularly
- Being a bit too boring
- Following people around like a lost puppy
- Making lame jokes
- Insulting girls when my intention was to tease them and be playful
- Creating bad/ awkward vibes during conversation when I don't get flirty and playful. Too serious
- Being a downer. Talking about negative things and making it sounds funny isn't working
- Talking way too fast and not loud enough
- When I open a girl, I have a difficulty with smiling which makes girls nervous. I've always been insecure about how my teeth look. I'm planning in getting braces to straighten them. But until then how do I feel confident smiling?
So much for feedback. In just two months I learned all of that. Self Analysis is probably about getting enough reference points that you hear more than three persons subtly tell you what to change.
So with that said, now that I know my major weak points I'm not sure how to fix them without being a burden on people. That's the main reason why I avoid a stable social circle environment if possible.
However, being at high school, it gets really difficult to fix flaws without risking being ostracized. I talk to every new girl at my school and I have seen a slight anxiety reduction. Yet at the same time they have begun to pick up that I'm not the best socially savvy person. When we just met, they treated me like a king and after two weeks they are only warm at best.
I see these girls talking to other guys and the guy is so good at making them laugh and feel comfortable. When the girls come to me we will talk like it's its some job interview.
I believe that a mixture of cold approach and social circle is good. Practising with girls at school can leave a bad taste if I'm not careful. How do I manage my reputation long-term?
Every time I attempt to flirt in the group it ends up being awkward. Or even worse my attempts at flirting and joking around gets the silent treatment. I can't just sit at school the entire day and not talk to anyone because that would be creepy.
Accepting Where I Am Now
...while working to improve. Last week a guy from school approached me when I was talking to a group of girls and put me of spot. He began telling the girls that I'm acting different than how I was last year. He said to me that my personality was so different that it must be fake. So I put him back on spot by asking him to explain what he meant.
Troy: What do you mean? How am I different?
Robert: You don't normally act this way. You were always weird
Troy: Explain. I don't know what you are talking about.
Robert: You were always quiet and weird. One time you some of the football guys beat you up and you cried like a baby. All your clothes were torn off and the girls could see your little sausage. No girl never liked you
Troy: Yeah! That's funny lol. I can't remember. When that happened?
Robert : You must remember that
Troy: I don't. Who beat me up?
Robert: the footballers
Troy: ....
And I drilled him with questions until he went into auto rejection.
That brings me to the next issue. Persons in my school already know me as the shy, quiet, doofus. I'm feeling hesitation to instantly start flirting with girls I was in class with for two plus years and never spoke to. Especially the guys who bust persons balls. Most people already see me as low status and I'll be stuck at the school for two more years with them. That's limits me to only the few new girls. How do I build calibration skills in a situation like this? And get over my hesitation of talking to girls I knew a long time who I never spoke to?
Thanks
Troy
That's Unfortunate
Hey Troy,
I sorry that happened to you if that actually did happen you about the football players. Anyway, I can understand that no one wants to go through life feeling like a outcast. Ultimately, you need to learn to relax around the new girls. Don't put so much pressure on the interaction. People will either like you or they won't. That guy was really trying to make a fool out of you. That was a good move by not overreacting or looking like a idiot. The girls probably saw that you remained calm. That definitely got you some points. The more you change the more people notice. The problem with drastic changes is people will call you out on them. Learn to relax around the girls and talk to them about things that interest them.
If you haven't around see the article from Chase about being a conversationalist, I recommend you read that. The Conversationalist Stay strong Troy, it seems you've been through quite a lot.
Take care,
Just Dave
Dealing with people
Chase,
I always look forward to reading your articles on daily social interactions and you manage (very well) to show how your methodologies work in both seduction and everyday life.
With a job like mine, it's important for me to have my social game down and I love your articles on these subjects. I use what I learn on this site for seduction and the social (and extremely stressful) dynamics of my workplace.
Can you have a section on yours site for these kind of articles? "How to deal with X in Y Social Situation" type of articles?
It's a great help and thanks again.
Craig
Forwarded
Hey Craig,
I'll forward this comment to Chase to see what could be done about this.
Just Dave
How to deal with X in Y Social Situation
Craig-
Have you seen the Social Life tab on the navigation bar above, or, alternately, the "Socializing category?
There are other sorts of articles mixed in there, but those'll make sorting through these a bit easier.
As for putting together a devoted category for "In X situation, do Y", I do intend to have us redo the article categories at some point since the categories we have now are a little too broad for the content on the site. However, no promises when this will be done, since in order to do this we need to come up with a new sorting system, go through ALL of the articles (about 1,000 of them) in a spreadsheet and classify each of them one by one, and then manually edit each and every article and place it into a new category. It'll be something of an undertaking...
Chase
A Quick Suggestion
By the way, I have a suggestion for an article: job interview skills. (ie: how to show you're the dominant, efficient man they want to hire). Of course, I'm sure you can make it intertwine with seduction and other social situations.
Thanks again.
Noted!
Hey Craig,
I'll let Chase and the other authors know about your request.
Just Dave
Interesting breakdown
Great article, Chase. I especially use "throw it to the group" because I have a boss who regularly tests my team and since we usually have a consensus against him, it works well. This is a technique I use regularly.
"Shrug it off and keep moving" doesn't seem to work so well when regularly tested by a superior but I think it works better with women. This technique is more playful and you could look like an incompetent or avoidant worker if you do this continuously in a work setting BUT that playfulness is what will come of as sexy when dealing with women.
Chase, I asked you in another post (I changed my name because I couldn't remember my login) about an article on moving to a new city and setting up new social circles/new life. I will be moving in a few months to a city where I don't know anyone and I would love to hear what you have to say about how to set up shop somewhere new.
Cheers
Noted!
Hey Armstrong,
Thanks for the incite from a business perspective. As far as the rest of the comment on the city situation. I'll let Chase and the other authors know about writing a possible article dealing with that.
Take care,
Just Dave
But you can always do this...
Hey Chase. You mention that if you're called out for being a doofus in a situation where you are rightfully the doofus to just bow out.
But that gives them an all win and you an all lose outcome.
I would make that person calling me out for being a doofus feel like they're being too harsh. Let me explain...
Say you talk too much in a group because you've had too many drinks or whatever. You get called out by a guy in the group. If that guy's response is harsh and although the group agrees with him, he is still sort of bringing down the mood of the group. Most people will be tolerant of someone who oversteps their bounds slightly over someone causing confrontation. So in that scenario, you can play it off like that person is being overly aggressive by laughing it off and having a "Ok, man, chill" attitude. This way you acknowledge that you may have overstepped your bounds but you're minimizing the damage by coming off as really laid back and not wanting to kill the group's vibe. I've used this before (especially in my college days when smoking weed and if I talked too much while high or something).
I know it doesn't always work but when adding a smooth, "dude, chill out" vibe to your response to being called out, it goes a long way.
Understandable
Hey Jake,
Looking at your information you provided I could see that being a good tactic. As far as Chase I think he presented two extremes. What I'm saying is it's possible that Chase presented would have been used in an extreme circumstance. Your example is more a balancing in a chilled environment. Let me know if that answers your question.
Take care,
Just Dave
Extremes & Chill Bro
Main thing I was going for here fellas was assessing whether you're in the wrong or he is, but I was using the extremes to paint this a little more clearly, yeah.
"Okay, chill bro," is an excellent option if you're among friends, in social circle, say, or where you know without a doubt that the guy is way out of line and everyone else there backs you up.
If you're assuming he's out of line but the reality is that everybody else there is annoyed with you, you can actually just end up wearing everyone else's patience thin with this - I've been around lots of interactions where one guy starts pissing people off, and someone starts correcting him and he goes, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, okay, chill bro, relax." And then he keeps being annoying, but a bit less so. Had he polled the group instead, and they said, "Well, you ARE being a little annoying with that [X] thing you keep doing," then he could say, "Whoops, sorry about that - I didn't even realize it. I'll tone it down," and then he will generally look cooler in front of everyone else. (one exception - if he's trying to pull a girl and she clearly likes what he's doing, even if it pisses the rest of the group off to high heaven he shouldn't apologize. Instead, just pull her out of there ASAP before the group completely turns on him and feeds him to the wolves)
So, this one's a big calibration thing. If you're very certain you're fine and doing nothing wrong and the other guy's got issues, it can be okay to launch into this. The safer option is polling the group - at least you get a stronger read on when you're operating out of bounds socially, which will inform your future social interactions and help you better avoid being the annoying guy who doesn't realize he's being annoying.
Just don't be this guy:
Chase
Thanks for Clarification
Hey Chase,
Thanks for clearing that up. The social circle dynamic makes a lot of sense. The meme at the end further bring this point home.
Thanks,
Just Dave
Hey Chase, I read your
Hey Chase,
I read your program and some of your articles. My problem is a bit off the specialty that you are offering here, but a couple of your articles which initially brought me to your site, are relevant to my problem. So I was wondering if you could offer me some advice.
I am a man, mid thirties, attractive, currently making do with a career in medical sciences. I was always a bit shy and introverted. But my problems is not that I can not attract girls (actually girls approach me). The problem is that due to personal and religious reasons, I have always wanted to wait till marriage for sex. I have always wanted to wait for that special lady whom I could commit myself to, 100%. The problem is (special of late), the thoughts that there is no girl (in my age group) left who would be like me, who has waited and who cherishes such an ideal (in a statistically meaningful and relevant way). The thoughts of falling in love with someone who has already been intimate with many other men, is destroying
any romantic life I had imagined for myself. I am fully aware in today's society such feelings and expectations are ridiculed and the harbinger is categorized as a troglodyte specially in media. But I can not help it. The more I delve, the more I see these feelings are actually hard wired in my brain. It is almost like a jealousy of worst kind consuming me to the point that I have been thinking to completely let go of any romantic hope and just concentrate on my profession.
Your articles on previous sexual partners, though eye opening with great references to research, actually made the situation worse for me, kind of proving the instincts I was battling. Till some time ago, I used to think that if she is good for me, all I have to do is bury my negative emotions about her past, and just accept her. But these articles and research refs in addition to some other research I studied, actually have made it almost impossible for me to be able to solve my problem now.
All my life I put my trust in science and now science is flaming my jealousy.
The thought that I will always be compared to her past memories (inevitable as humans live off their memory) and the thought of being led rather than lead, goes against every ounce of my manhood. Besides, I feel that I will form a very strong emotional bond with my first, specially in context of a romantic relationship, but with her past intimacies and experiences, she will never be able to reciprocate. It would be impossible for her. A research paper I had read basically says the previous sexual experiences makes sex less pleasing in quality terms for women in marriage (though for some reason, the same paper says that this observation does not stand true for men). And another research paper says that in bio-economic terms women mostly see sex as a capital good, while men see it as a consumer good. And the implications of this last one are too enormous and have kept me thinking real hard.
I guess the science part is pretty much clear, but what I wanted to hear from you is your personal perspective on this issue.
With your experience, if you were in my place, what would you have done? Is there any hope?
I would really appreciate if you could drop in some of your wisdom. Thanks.
In 30s and Still Waiting
Super DD-
It's a tough thing to be mid-30s and still waiting for the right girl in the West - most of the religious folks marry young (24 and younger it seems like), which means that by the time you hit 30 nearly everyone who's single has had a number of sexual and romantic partners already.
You have a couple of options if you're looking at things very realistically:
Focus on dating exclusively younger women from conservative regions - if you're not in a very religious area, for instance, you'd want to move to one. You might have to restructure your life so that you're coming into contact with girls who are still in the early years of their university educations, and you'll want to focus on religious universities. There are still some women who retain their virginity midway through a Christian college education (I had a sister who went to a Catholic university, and if some of her friends weren't virgins then I don't think anyone is). If she's a Western girl, single, and hitting 21 or 22, your chances she's still a virgin aren't terribly good, and if she's 23 or older, unless she's Mother Theresa reborn she probably isn't
Change your philosophy and get comfortable with sex before marriage. I wasn't sure if we wanted to table this one or not from your comment - maybe, maybe not. I'd probably recommend this one least, just because at this point in your life it's going to be such a hard right-turn from how you've structured your entire existence that it's going to be traumatic to go through - abandoning old ways and picking up new ones that aren't what you want and that you're far behind on anyway. It's an option, but probably the least best option
Pick up stakes and head to a country with conservative women. The best is if you learn the local language and focus on smaller towns that aren't in the big city. Girlfriends of mine that I've met in large Asian cities will tend to have had a few partners before, but their sisters and sisters-in-law in less metropolitan cities will tend to only have slept with the men they take as husbands (usually they have sex before marriage, but not until it's more or less already certain that they're getting married). If you're worried about religious considerations, I've noticed a lot of Asian women converting to Christianity as soon as they're in close contact with it, so I wouldn't worry about this too much. Additionally, the age gap isn't as much of a consideration in Asia as Asian women tend to prefer older men - guys under 30 have a much harder time with young Asian women than guys over 30 do, whether foreign or local. Note: don't do the foreign bride thing where you try to meet her over a website, as a lot of these girls are pros - ex-prostitutes, divorced women looking for a desperate foreign guy, women who are foreigner hunters and date lots of foreign guys, etc.
If you're not wanting to move much, I'd probably try my hand first at relocating to somewhere close to a Christian university and try meeting women there. If no dice, consider a more conservative part of your country, like the American Deep South, or consider spending a few years over in Asia - you can always bring the wife back home with you later if you want to, and it'll be a heck of a fun experience.
Chase
In 30s and Still Waiting
Super DD-
It's a tough thing to be mid-30s and still waiting for the right girl in the West - most of the religious folks marry young (24 and younger it seems like), which means that by the time you hit 30 nearly everyone who's single has had a number of sexual and romantic partners already.
You have a couple of options if you're looking at things very realistically:
Focus on dating exclusively younger women from conservative regions - if you're not in a very religious area, for instance, you'd want to move to one. You might have to restructure your life so that you're coming into contact with girls who are still in the early years of their university educations, and you'll want to focus on religious universities. There are still some women who retain their virginity midway through a Christian college education (I had a sister who went to a Catholic university, and if some of her friends weren't virgins then I don't think anyone is). If she's a Western girl, single, and hitting 21 or 22, your chances she's still a virgin aren't terribly good, and if she's 23 or older, unless she's Mother Theresa reborn she probably isn't
Change your philosophy and get comfortable with sex before marriage. I wasn't sure if we wanted to table this one or not from your comment - maybe, maybe not. I'd probably recommend this one least, just because at this point in your life it's going to be such a hard right-turn from how you've structured your entire existence that it's going to be traumatic to go through - abandoning old ways and picking up new ones that aren't what you want and that you're far behind on anyway. It's an option, but probably the least best option
Pick up stakes and head to a country with conservative women. The best is if you learn the local language and focus on smaller towns that aren't in the big city. Girlfriends of mine that I've met in large Asian cities will tend to have had a few partners before, but their sisters and sisters-in-law in less metropolitan cities will tend to only have slept with the men they take as husbands (usually they have sex before marriage, but not until it's more or less already certain that they're getting married). If you're worried about religious considerations, I've noticed a lot of Asian women converting to Christianity as soon as they're in close contact with it, so I wouldn't worry about this too much. Additionally, the age gap isn't as much of a consideration in Asia as Asian women tend to prefer older men - guys under 30 have a much harder time with young Asian women than guys over 30 do, whether foreign or local. Note: don't do the foreign bride thing where you try to meet her over a website, as a lot of these girls are pros - ex-prostitutes, divorced women looking for a desperate foreign guy, women who are foreigner hunters and date lots of foreign guys, etc.
If you're not wanting to move much, I'd probably try my hand first at relocating to somewhere close to a Christian university and try meeting women there. If no dice, consider a more conservative part of your country, like the American Deep South, or consider spending a few years over in Asia - you can always bring the wife back home with you later if you want to, and it'll be a heck of a fun experience.
Chase
Find her online!
Hey man, on top of Chase says, before you move, if you're in a major city in the millions, then, well.. You can find anything!
Hell, I read about a guy whose dream was to be eaten.. Well, he found a guy willing to eat him on Internet! :S
So of course you can find a woman in your age group in your same situation.
Just scout the net on the places you're most likely to find them.
Websites about getting married, Christian forum, blogs about chastity values etc. etc.
Hey gc writers, I was
Hey gc writers,
I was recently pulled up to a football team where I'm the only freshman and the rest are mostly sophomores but also juniors and seniors. It is expected that the freshman do a lot of the grunt work like filling up water bottles, shagging, balls and getting the ball bag. I was able to avoid a lot of this by being cool and shaking off requests however the coaches also somewhat encourage the freshman to have to do the "bitch jobs". I expect to be the starter next year and I need to be respected as the quarterback. Is there any way to completely shut down these requests for me to do the annoying jobs on the team.
High School or College
Hey G,
To give a better answer are you dealing with high school or college coaches?
Just Dave
Want to start day game
Hey Chase and Dave, i think imma just quit club game and try straight up day game. Im pretty solid of getting one number each time i go and getting girls on me, i just can't get em after and im kinda tired of the club. It bores me now, the same old songs, girls that i don't really want and they act stuck up. Getting rejected by a girl you would never talk to outside the club, pisses me off, I'm like, "did i just get rejected by a girl i would never talk to? Wtf?". I'm not getting dates from girls i pick up and mess around with in the club, it's getting redundant, I'm not getting real enough results, I've been doing this shit for 2 years and didn't fuck one girl from the club yet.
I want to go strictly to day game now.... I'm just nervous as shit, i think about it and say it's impossible for me to feel comfortable doing this. 95% of girls i see are not my race, and you know how that's going already. Chase makes it sound easier than club game, but that shit to me feels 10x's harder, i feel awkward as shit. I could use a little help guys on starting this guys, this is very daunting to me, but i have nothing else.
I'd appreciate all advice you have to make day game as easy as possible, thank you guys!
Forum Link
Hey Wolf,
Here's a link at one of my most detailed forum posts. It outlines every trick and tactic up that point of things I've used. I mostly run day game. Consider it a complete guide to what you're trying to accomplish. Their are also articles on the site, but I want you to see the results first. Inside the post are links to thins I've written and field reports. Take a look and let me know if it makes sense at all.
Single Player Mode
Take care,
Just Dave
Success
I re read chase's article on barrier levels. When reading it, it seems you actually won't have success unless you approach thousands of women if you're a regular guy. My question is:
How the hell do you succeed? I don't think one person will keep doing cold approach if he's been rejected thousands of times. So with that in mind, chase said that you can try two things.
A. Take the easy route and approach girls like every guy does, it's easy, but you won't succeed like you would with doing the harder things like day game.
B. Day game is the hardest, but you get the most rewards. But you have to fail alot and who knows when you'll get laid, you have to get numbers, get dates, get girls home. There's so much you have to do to achieve any results from this.
So how do you succeed if you can't fuck a lot of girls doing every guy game and you can't fuck a lot of girls doing hard game no one does? It's like you have to be extremely lucky.
Goals
Hey V,
Ultimately it starts with a very realistic goal. When you first start out you may have a goal of approaching 10 girls a week. Next you'll do something like I'll get 5 numbers this week. The next goal would be I'll ask a girl out. Basically what I'm saying your success comes with the goals you are setting for yourself. But for newer guys they have to be attainable goals. A lot of guys read the articles and want to run before they can even crawl. Once you begin to accomplish goals, you begin to obtain success.
Take care,
Just Dave
How to be sexy
How do you become and act sexy when you have little experience? I feel too friendly and when i try to act sexy it comes across as me being bored or very serious.
I need some help, thanks guys!
Article Links
Hey V,
Take a look at the following articles.
How to Be Sexy
Sexy Vibe
Sexy Body Language
Let me know if these help.
Just Dave
Hey David Riley, It's high
Hey David Riley,
It's high school coaches
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