A Few Thoughts on MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Ways

Hi Chase,
First and foremost, I would like to thank you for providing us with this awesome content. My question is not related to this article (or any other article for that matter). It is a personal challenge I face from time to time.

Being an Indian, I have a thick English accent, which acts as a turn off for most women I come across. I have improved my fundamentals and deepened my voice, but my accent still hurts my success. Is there any way I could improve it, or should I own the shit up. Please help.

Thanking you,
Vigkri

Once again! Great article. I love your smoothness chase. The way you wrote this made it seem like you were the casual, quiet, calm, observant badass in the leather jacket standing in the corner. I personally think being smooth is the most important thing you taught me. Have yet to buy the spellbinding video due to no access to a debit card ( are MC or visa GC applicable?). But we will get there

Anyway! One thing id like to point out is how well spoken you are! How does one get to that level of words and ability to convey their thought into words?

Reading books? Having time to actually write it down rather than having to speak immediately?

Thanks friend!

"I suppose it’s different for everyone, but for me the term ‘MGTOW’ is irrevocably tied to sexually frustrated men filled with bitterness toward the opposite sex."

You are still uninformed or in denial about female nature and behavior. Get a clue dude. You are not special, you are not going to get that special snowflake who is going to treat you nice forever and ever. You're probably one of those dude who thinks "She's going to look at me after a year of being together the same way she looked at me the first time we met" LTR and marriage are dead. That is my point of being GMOW. Spend some time researching female behaviors and how they truly feel about men and you may see the light. As for sexually frustrated, that can easily be taken care of with escorts, this is about being happy,at peace and stress free. Good luck to any man trying to get that special snowflake, you're gonna need it

A related subject is escapism, where men come up with hobbies like math or video games, to distract them from thinking about women all the time.

Hey chase, great article!
I have a problem that is a bit unrelated to this topic but still I wanted to get your opinion. I am 20 years old since I was a teenager I was never that good with girls and I never had a real girlfriend because I always felt a bit immature. Fast forward now that I'm 20 I look much better, I dress well and go to the gym so I have a good body that girls compliment me frequently. The problem that I have and that I wanted your opinion on, is that by this history of being bad with girls and never having the attention from them is hurting my game, because when I go out I tend to need validation from girls and when I feel that they're attracted that is enough for me and I don't continue the interaction because the validation that they give me and when I know they're attracted makes me feel more complete and I don't close the girls. Is this problem caused by a lack of confidence or simply because I'm inexperienced?

Thanks.

Thanks for tackling the subject, Chase. As always, you didn't disappoint. Let's hope it goes viral and makes many of them reconsider their retirement from the dating/reproductive scene, and perhaps even bring up their opinion of the opposite sex a notch or two.

The part about the incels who suddenly disappear from the manosphere the moment they get a girlfriend reminded me of the saying: "Socialist until you get rich. Feminist until you get married. Atheist until the plane starts going down." Though I'm sure there are many exceptions to these.

MGTOW is a very deep philosophy. To truely understand it requires reading countless articles and watching countless videos and spending countless hours in reflection. It took almost a year for the message to sink in for me. Believe it or not, MGTOW is not really about women. It is more about economics (all types of resources, how they are accumulated, and how they are expended). Women are often the catalyst that causes MGTOW to find a man, but they have nothing to do with the end goal of the philosophy. The path of MGTOW is closely akin to the greiving process, the goal of which is acceptance. But MGTOW offers and will eventually deliver a step past acceptance where a whole new world opens for a man. I won't attempt an explanation. But I will say that almost without exception the detractors of MGTOW have no idea what they are talking about because they haven't done the hard work necessary to understand it. Criticizing without understanding is a common human failing. If you are going to criticize, please at least understand the subject beyond the superficial level. Thanks, and Cheers.

I think you have largely missed the point of MGTOW here, although you have focussed on an aspect of it, the frustrated men. What you have glossed over is the main reason, that in marriage, Mens lives are at serious risk and interaction with women at that level is very dangerous. I know people now locked in marriage who are a woman's decision away from having there lives completely destroyed, unable to see there kids much and nothing more than a useful financial tool to help fund a females family aspirations regardless of whether you are present. Your presence in the whole family equation is no longer necessary and the number of fatherless kids is on the rise. The point I am making is that no matter how wonderful you think you are, how smooth your game is or how 'alpha' you are, the system of family courts and laws in marriage will reduce you to nothing more than a financial commodity and useful sperm donor. This is the crux of MGTOW , it's a 'phenomena', just something that happens naturally when self preservation kicks in and the odds are stacked against a certain group. I know a guy who is great with women, he would agree that MGTOW are just silly frustrated men. He has two kids now that he visits on the weekend. His ex has possibly never worked a day in her life and who can blame her, she doesn't need to, he pays her rent, pays everything.. he has that look now of a man who wishes he had never been born, only young as well, he never realised. The suicide rate for men is so high, simply because in society, men are the sacrificial lambs whose well being is secondary to female comfort. Men are simply waking up to this fact and saying.. 'Not for me thanks' .. you can shame that all you like, call them little whiney children, but it will continue happening regardless

Facebook offered to start freezing women's reproductive eggs in order to make them work as efficiently as men without children into their 40's. Now why wasn't this a world headline? Hahahaha good times these hey

I think its great.
No, women aren't that great. At least not for the hoops guys have to jump through to get a girl to have sex with him.
And the life-ending consequences he faces afterwards?
Thats just crazy!
Not to mention how guys are supposed to be the assertive and more aggressive, then they're not, but then they get viewed as weak, so then they're supposed to be aggressive again, but that leads to being insensitive, and so on, and so on...
I'm glad to see teen boys taking a stand and making a decision on the pitfalls of todays sexual relations.
Women don't want to be objectified?
Wish granted.

I don't think you quite understand the concept of MGTOW. Which is understandable, but to write 50 page essay about the topic you are clueless about shows your lack of education in the subject matter. Many of the claims you make are simple rhetoric of men that identify as MGTOW. By definition MGTOW CAN be married, they can date, they can have girlfriends. MGTOW can do ANYTHING they want. It is a simple declaration of freedom. A declaration that you will not be a willing stooge to a system that uses men as a disposable utility. A declaration that you will not be used and abused by the narcissistic sociopathic women we call modern females. You see, you make all these claims from the stand point of the golden child. You are the beta simp to your mother. Therefor for you to see 95% of women for what they are is impossible. You will die defending women because you are in fact a mothers boy simp. You can't fathom a world where women do wrong and you write 50 page essays attacking a group of men you know nothing about. I've had sex with over 400 women and I'm not even 30. Heck I'm not even 29. I had my own business at 19 and 3 different Audi's by 21. I had women whenever I wanted. However I wanted. I also had a sociopathic malignant narcissist mother than used and abused my father through out my life. I saw exactly how modern american women treat men, while maintaining their innocent do good appearance to the rest of society. She cut my fathers balls off and used me and my sister as black mail to keep him around. Witnessing the gold digger women myself, as well as the malignant lying narcissistic sociopaths claiming to love me, as well as the cheating slutty whores that claimed to be in a relationship with me, it's easy to see the truth of female nature. And the REALITY that 95% of women are in fact like this. I have lived it. I have experienced it. Do I hate females? No. I am banging a beautiful latina girl that is 7 years younger than me. I don't treat her like a spoiled entitled princess. I speak exactly like I am now to her and she loves it. It turns her on. She knows that the minute she starts playing any games she is out the door. The first time she starts trying to manipulate, lie, or anything in between, she is gone. That is the difference between a MGTOW man and a beta boy like you. And why you feel the need to attack out of jealousy of not having any balls yourself. You probably won't even post this comment.

The divorce rate in the United States is at 50 percent. Millions of men lost their homes, children, retirement accounts, emotional peace, and precious years of their life for this ideal that marriage is the end all and be all for happiness. I don't necessarily agree with MGTOW but it does not take a genius to realize where the source of the anger and fear to follow society demands. Just open your mind and think about it. Why should anyone sacrifice their dreams and desires to conform to society. Why should women or anyone outside of your own self determine what makes you truly happy. I witness first hand the devastation women can cause. Some women do not even have the courage to look you in the face and say they want a divorce. Many do it thousands of miles away with a lawyer's letter. In 2018 Marriage is a construct that no longer works in this day of age. A man will always lose far more in assets and emotional turmoil than women. I have seen first hand how a divorce destroyed a friend of mine. He lost everything including his 2 children. The 2 children grew up in young women and they have no relationship with their father. He took a knife to his throat at that was the end of it. I will say this bluntly F***** relationships. My own parents have been married for 35 years and they are miserable. It is not worth it.

Well since the women of today have really changed for the worst of all that will certainly explain it. And now you have all these very pathetic loser women with their careers that think they're all that which their not anyway. Most women now unfortunately just don't have any respect for many of us men at all since they have such very horrible manners as well altogether now. God forbid for many of us good men just to say good morning or hello to a woman that we would really like to meet which has become very extremely dangerous for us now since they will be very nasty to us and walk away. And when you compare these very pathetic loser low life women today to the old days which back then when most of the women at that time were real ladies and totally the opposite compared to now. It is very obvious why many of us men nowadays are going Mgtow since the women of today are just awful now more than ever unfortunately which will save save us good innocent men a lot of pain, misery, torture, and keep plenty of extra money in our pockets too.

I will never let a Women destroy me in Divorce and Family Courts. Any Man dumb enough now to look at the marriage and family laws and still sign up to lose half to sixty percent of his assets and resources then pay support in some states like California for life if a marriage lasts ten years, is a fool. Marriage is dead Feminism and the liberal State ideology ruined it.
If divorce went back to 50/50 of current assets and thats it i would consider it.

I think there are some analytical methods used here that guided the author to the wrong conclusions and assumptions. One mistake is to equate loner and MGTOW. The problem with this comparison is like comparing a memory chip of a computer with a software program. MGTOW is on a philosophical layer while loner is on the physical layer. While it's true that many MGTOWs may be loners, the two are not the same. a loner is a person who go life solo with minimal relationship interactions. There is no indication that MGTOW is about that. The analytical approach seeked the common denominator of elements of MGTOW that stood out for the author and not for the MGTOW. Hence when you take that common denominator you get, "I want it all my way" while that is not what MGTOW is about for the MGTOW. the various themes may be popular in MGTOW literature, but does not create the common denominator the author derived.

The common denominator is best explained by Dr Helen Smith. It is described as a cost vs benefit analysis modern men who free them from the indoctrination of old traditions and religions do. MGTOW is very progressive by nature. Marriage between men and women is a patriarchal construct and its not radical to think that if you destroy the patriarchy that the mechanisms that was responsible for its necessity will crumble and the construct will crumble with it. Marriage failure is an indication of this transition and that a hybrid model seems to be ineffective. We need to understand that if you change any system there will be gains and losses. Patriarchal societies maintained their status by pairing men and women where the man have the control. Matriarchal societies are clans and social groups living together. Hence we see friends living together, we see marriages falling apart as the patriarchy is destroyed by feminism. To me this is typical and expected that those who just casually and socially live together will get a better deal today. But in the transition phase conservative thinkers hold on to tradition and progressive thinkers look at the new opportunities and threats and organised to optimize to the new environment.

We can turn a rugby feeld slowly into a soccer field, and those who insist to play by the rules of rugby would increasingly get penalties and realise they do not score any points. So the progressive person have on of two choices, learn the rules of soccer or go pick up you ball and go home or get another hobby. Feminism has changed the playing field but its irrational to think that rugby player will now get a liking in soccer or that they will all adapt to the new game. Its expected that some will and some wont and those who wont who recognize the change will make another plan.

If enough has changed in society over time, a sensible person would forget tradition and religion for a moment, and re-calculate the SWOT diagram to determine if it still makes sense or is it in your best interest? is it working for you? how does the benefits and risks compare now? Once you calculate the decrease value women have for men and the increased risks and demands on men and factor it into other progressive concepts propagated by feminism such as "women need a man like a fish needs a bicycle" where this declaration of independence and separatism is deemed progressive. It is typical that a new result will be derived.

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you raise the price on a product while its reliability decreases and new alternatives are invented that the sales of that product will plummet. MGTOW hashtag seems to create awareness about the social sift and that old traditions must be reevaluated where special focus is placed on the obvious rise in risks men take with marriage and also the decreasing benefit modern women hold for men as womens roles also become obsolete.

Men do not need women to live a good life anymore because women gave up their unique roles and society replaced those roles with machines and services available to every man. Women became disposable in that sense. Feminism took the position that everything women do and meen for men must be stopped because men benefit from women that way. But then created a void and the market place and other innovations then rush to fill the void. washing machines, microwave ovens, porn, video games, home theater, ready made meals, social media, pubs around every corner, more single guys who can bond and maintain social lives with each other. All these came to help fill the void left by feminism who took women out of unique roles they served for men. If you remove those roles only an idiot would think that everything else will not change accordingly.

So MGTOW is more about a re-calculation of the cost/benefit analysis consistent to progressive philosophy.
The independence of women took advantage off this idea for 50 years already. With an ongoing feminist movement shaping the world it is not odd, but typical that men would re-calculate their opportunities, threats, strengths and weaknesses relative and as the results change, so should the decisions and objectives change accordingly. MGTOW is typical and not odd. Infact there are about 1000 times more men living by MGTOW than those you see in the MGTOW community. Its a reactive phenomena transforming into philosophy as men adapt to the new environment in a typical way.

Hi,

there are some points I absolutly degree but also some I absolutly disagree.

Excerpt: "The problem with this comparison is like comparing a memory chip of a computer with a software program. MGTOW is on a philosophical layer while loner is on the physical layer."

If you compare it in such a way then I will compare it with running Windows 10 on a Intel 8086. It simply does'n't work. So you can have a wonderful philosophy, if men don't get it or simply are not able to follow it isn't worth the paper it is written on. The same with MGTOW. A very good thing if you want to find your own way and if you have the personal resources for it (Intel Core i7-8700K ;-) ) . But a lot of men haven't (Intel 8086). For them it is a replacement and valve for their bitterness towards women.
Don't get me wrong. I absolutly agree with your last two paragraphs. BUT: it is a big difference between what men are able to do with regard to their possibilities and what they see and feel from their point of view ( the same with feminism by the way). And they see that they want to mate and if they don't come along with it they withdraw and/or become bitter. Not good. From this point of view this very plays in the cards of MGTOW (and even feminsm): to groom men who take responsibility for their lives and one important factor is a satisfied love and sex live accepting and enjoing strong women (whatever strong means).

T.

Hi,

there are some points I absolutly degree but also some I absolutly disagree.

Excerpt: "The problem with this comparison is like comparing a memory chip of a computer with a software program. MGTOW is on a philosophical layer while loner is on the physical layer."

If you compare it in such a way then I will compare it with running Windows 10 on a Intel 8086. It simply does'n't work. So you can have a wonderful philosophy, if men don't get it or simply are not able to follow it isn't worth the paper it is written on. The same with MGTOW. A very good thing if you want to find your own way and if you have the personal resources for it (Intel Core i7-8700K ;-) ) . But a lot of men haven't (Intel 8086). For them it is a replacement and valve for their bitterness towards women.
Don't get me wrong. I absolutly agree with your last two paragraphs. BUT: it is a big difference between what men are able to do with regard to their possibilities and what they see and feel from their point of view ( the same with feminism by the way). And they see that they want to mate and if they don't come along with it they withdraw and/or become bitter. Not good. From this point of view this site very plays in the cards of MGTOW (and even feminsm): to groom men who take responsibility for their lives and one important factor is a satisfied love and sex live accepting and enjoing strong women (whatever strong means).

T.

You seem to think all MGTOW's are ultimately loners, but that is NOT the essence of MGTOW. It is actually about not allowing women in any way (especially via the state) to have control of you - and the marriage contract (via divorce in our man-hating court system) is the worst way of allowing that control.
You can have relationships with women and indeed everybody else, you just don't take any s**t from them, if they try it you offer them the door...
Now if you REALLY want kids you have to compromise a bit, because you are then open to child support - and women WILL take maximum advantage of that if you are not paying for them as part of a relationship.
The main thing is don't deliberately put yourself in harm's way from a woman - especially by adhering to bulls**t cultural norms like marriage.

If i could go back in time and speak to my younger 19 year old self I would give him this advice: "make women your absolute bottom priority." Focus on building a life that you are proud of, develop a skill that is congruent to your nature and life will get better each year. I instead chased women for many years. The great chase was really what kept me going, the sex/relationships I got were never fulfilling. Looking back on my pua days I see a sex thirsty guy that was willing to invest a large amount of time into satisfying his base desires. in 2018 hypergamy is more rampant than ever (just look at tinder). A woman has access to attractive men 24/7 regardless of her own SMV. The natural result is that the top 5-10% of guys are sleeping with a majority of attractive women. This isn't me complaining, this is fact. If I was in a woman's shoes it would only make sense to choose the best I could get in regards to mating. SO where does that leave you? Well If you're anything like I was you are a decent, average-to above average looking male who can think for himself. The simple question is this: "Is the time and effort necessary to date these top tier women worth it?" For some the answer may still be "yes of course it is", but for me the cost benefit analysis has led me to pursue the mgtow lifestyle. Minimal effort to date/sleep with women with a primary focus on my own wants and desires. It is ultimately up to you my friend, but just understand that the trade off is always your time, and time is limited. What I ultimately realized was that through all my chasing of tail I did not become a better man by my own standards, but by the standards society and women had set for me. Health is important to me, I am not going to go out drinking 3-4 nights a week to sleep with a woman below my caliber with possibility of contracting an STD/false accusations/pregnancy/ etc. It's just not worth it. I am sure many of you already know the downsides of marriage. But anyways, this just the perspective of a former pua dude turned mgtow. Take what you will from it. Best of luck to you.

I used to be very miserable due to my "severe-lack-of-female-attention". But after being alive for over 40 years, I consider myself VERY lucky to be one of the most "un-wanted" men in my country (U.S.A.); words cannot even describe HOW blessed I am to be completely "woman-free", especially since I never have to worry about things such as catching an S.T.D., being cheated on, alimony, child support, and "baby-daddy" issues. I am ever so grateful to "God" to be overweight, disabled, and shy...it keeps me safe from harm!!!

MGTOW is the very safe and healthy way to go nowadays for many of us men which will definitely save our life as well.

Remember the TFL movement and a guy named Steve Hoca? Apparently, someone from the MGTOW movement is ripping on him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j20r4Ns3yw

Especially check out the 11:55 mark, when Steve and Bill Greathouse (the TFL founder) ramble on about how Rollo Tomassi lies to guys and tells them that they don't age like fine wine.

With so many feminists women nowadays that are real evil and men haters altogether, which that is why so many of us smart single men are MGTOW today.

i was also a little sceptical of something that means so many different things is no movement.  And I was right it’s not a movement, It is a general philosophy for men that want to take control of thier lives and live life by thier terms,  some go full celibate, some go PUA, some date but keep it casual and avoid commitment, the list goes on.  I guess I identify with MGTOW since in rough terms I’ve practiced it for over 20 years.  Whatever name you call it I witnessed the destruction of masculinity, loss of family, money, kids pension all over and the common thread was every man went away in shock of how one sided the law is.  I was raised very traditional with my mother mostly home and my dad working 3 jobs to support 4 kids and a wife. My father was the opidamy of masculinity.  Powerful farm kid married young worked to death to fulfill his many duties and it broke my heart to sit there are watch my mother destroy him Dailey.  He was no wimp, trust me he laid me out cold the first time I fingered I was tougher with 8 beer in me at 15,  but he would sit there and take shit and you could almost see his shoulder slump carrying the weight he did.  I don’t know a single man that would stick around through that.  He stayed because that’s what men do.  The studies show that even bad patients are better the one parent.  They were married 48 years until my mothers death and in some way I think there was love.  Next I watched my older brothers get divorce raped, then as a soldier I saw returning men come home to a empty house maxed out credit and no kids.  I also saw the stupidity of quota hireing in a organization that can put you life in extream danger if the soldier beside you only had to do 3 push-ups to pass the extra low standard fitness testing.  The list goes on and after my first deployment to a shit hole I could not stand the grossly entitled females running around blaming men for everything.  So I just stopped caring, stopped dating, and lived my life. But it’s got progressively worse for men in the west.  to the point that when I was wounded and had to retire after 26 years of defending my country only to find its gone to shit, men have lost due process and are assumed guilty, complaints by women can destroy your life, my government is forcing feminist ideals down men’s neck refusing programs to men who won’t sign a pledge that glorifies some truly horrific social justive laws. I came to the conclusion that I wasted 26 years of my life sacrificing my body and mental heath on spoiled diluted Canadian idiots.  So Mgtow for me, is just that, for me.  I feel truly sorry for boys and men entering the reproductive years,  if I had more money I’d be in Panama now, screw this place