When Should You Have Sex? Depends If You’re Him or Her | Girls Chase

When Should You Have Sex? Depends If You’re Him or Her

Chase Amante

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Chase Amante's picture

when should you have sexOne of our female readers commented the other day on the article "I Don’t Chase 'Em, I Replace 'Em," about not waiting around for women who aren't interested / are pushing things off indefinitely, saying:

Matt's letter suggested that you cut a woman off if she won't sleep with you on the first date... that cuts out a lot of good women, including me! If all guys thought like this, I'd never get a boyfriend (or laid) again!
(also, it should be noted, many men claim they 'won't date' a girl who will have sex on the first date, so you can't blame us for taking it slow)

The topic is one that's been brought up a number of times by male and female commenters here, and done so in a variety of ways. Because the general advice for men on Girls Chase is contrary to conventional advice (i.e., take women to bed as lovers fast, not slow), it tends to provoke excitement in some, but confusion, questioning, or ire in others.

So - when should you have sex?

We've discussed the process of women's attraction expiring for men who fail to move things forward fast enough, but are there other reasons a man ought to take things fast with women he likes, and not slow, as the advice from the mainstream instructs?

And what about for women - is it better for women to make men wait, and if so, how long?

Today, I'm exploring both sides - so buckle up.

Comments

Wallflower I Am Not's picture

After reading this article I am further convinced that a woman has to pick a passionate love life or a stable life for herself and that there is really no middle ground. It's a "no win" situation and one must accept it as such. It seems that it is impossible to have both, despite what is generally believed and preached by those who see marriage as the pinnacle of happiness. It seems that it might be the case for men as well.

This issue has been really bothering me for quite some time and it seems that you are reaffirming my prior observations and assumptions about it. I wonder what men think about this.. Do you guys feel like it is possible to have a passionate long-term relationship? I am talking decades of time together? Do you really believe this? Has anyone experienced this? I am not talking about affection here, I am talking about raw passion - wanting to rip each other's clothes off, yearning to have sex all night long, that type of a thing. Is such high sexual drive towards one another sustainable? Thanks for your answer.

Knight's picture

I think it is Wallflower,
I'm not at that age and can't speak from experience but through Chase's observations and techniques im certain this is achievable. However, obviously this would be quite rare as both individuals would have to understand and employ a lot.

- Knight

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Wallflower-

More or less, that is the choice, yes. The dominant partner gets to ensure stability for him/her self, at the price of passion; meanwhile, the subordinate partner gets passion, at the price of stability.

The main reason for that is that emotions are a product of being not in control; the more in control you are, the calmer you feel, and the more your emotions recede. Stability is a natural byproduct of being in control. The dominant partner is in control, which means he or she can ensure stability if he or she chooses, but doesn't get to feel the highs and lows of emotion that come from feeling passionately out of control; the subordinate partner is not in control, which means he or she has little say over how stable the relationship is, no matter how sweet or wonderful or awesome he or she is to the dominant partner, but he/she also gets the full range of emotional ups and downs from not being in control and not knowing how things will turn out and hoping they'll go a certain way but never fully knowing.

Long-term passion comes as a result of long-term instability - for you to feel it, you actually need a partner who creates constant instability in the relationship. The more stable things become, the more passion wanes.

There are some ways you can structure in higher passion in long-term relationships - e.g., go on Google and search for "living apart together" and you'll come across a number of articles on people in long-term relationships who report continuing to have passionate, sexual relationships by not living together, including a number of happily married couples with children.

Anything that gets the blood running can reinvigorate passion - travel, new experiences, amusement park rides, horror movies, adventuring like mountain-climbing or scuba diving, etc. These don't give you the kinds of wild crazy month-long passion sprees you get at the start of a new relationship, but the only way to get that IS to start a new relationship with a totally new person and still have all the thrill of discovering someone unknown to you and filled with potential. More on reinvigorating passion to a certain degree in this article: Self-Expansion and Growth in Relationships.

A high, rip-each-others'-clothes-off sex drive doesn't last though, because that comes as a bit of a response to the newness - there's a certain feeling of, "This person is AMAZING, so we need to mate NOW in case we come apart and never end up seeing each other again!" - and the more time you spend together, the more your brains begin to realize that this other person isn't going anywhere, so things are a lot less urgent. Living apart, joint self-expansion, and drama seem to be the best ways of giving an older relationship a jolt in the arm - probably because they all suggest the partner might leave (living apart, how do you know if he or she isn't seeing someone else? Self-expansion, how do you know if your partner is improving him or herself so much, he/she isn't going to catch the eye of some attractive member of the opposite sex and vanish? And with drama, how do you know this fight isn't the one that ends the relationship?). Introduce chaos, anarchy, newness, or thrill, and suddenly passion rouses from its slumber to go a round or two, until the emotions and uncertainty subside and stability returns to the fore once more.

Chase

Wallflower I Am Not's picture

Chase,

Thank you for your generous response and a link to another very interesting article.

So, after reading all this information, I gathered that it is not possible to sustain a wild attraction for anyone in a long-term relationship, but that it is possible to sort of get it out of a rut every once in a while with some "tricks," such as learning to do new activities together and growing. But then, what if you are very different people? And you like very different things, yet you get a long well and have years of history together?

I don't know.. I guess I am more confused now, granted it's not your responsibility or fault, of course. I just don't really know how I am supposed to live my life. Most guys that I had wild passionate feelings towards would end up messing with my head somehow and I would feel very unsure of what this relationship would amount to in the end, not that I cared so much about the outcome, but it still made me feel a little uneasy about it and I would opt out or they would do it for me. Or, sometimes the dynamic would change, they would fall in love with me, so then I would be in control and lose the passion and break up with them. The guys who were really into me from the get-go, who were attractive but not to a point where I was losing my mind thinking about having sex with them would go on to become supportive, reliable boyfriends who would want nothing more but to marry me. But, somehow we were always very different in our interests and I was the "exciting one" in the relationship I felt.

Basically, I guess I just don't know what to do with myself at this point in my life. I don't want to make compromises, but it seems that I would be unfulfilled no matter which path I take in this life. I don't want to experience the lows of the lows that you get with someone who gives you the ultimate highs, but at the same time don't want to be bored and feel like I have to take some medication to keep my sex drive in check.

I know you suggested trading countries, cities, engage in new adventurous activities etc. and yes, thes do work to an extent, but they occupy your mind, not your body, your body still wants something new and exciting.

Anyway, I feel like some serious whore writing all this. I am not! :))) believe it or not. Just very dazed and confused! :)

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Wallflower–

Well, we’re kind of in a weird place as far as historical precedent is concerned right now, because traditionally there’s either been society or biology that sets us on some kind of a normal path, but we don’t have either of those right now. e.g., Western society is very against telling anyone that she HAS to do anything, and because of contraception pregnancy isn’t going to come along and force people to become parents and move into the usual “next stage” of life as it has in generations past (e.g., 40% of American brides in the mid-1700s were already pregnant on their wedding days). It’s a bigger problem in general in the West – a whole lot of people who don’t know what they want to do and don’t have a clear sense of purpose or direction.

There are a lot of ways you can have fulfillment, but it might be the kind of fulfillment you thought you’d have when you were younger. I have a friend in her early 30s who’s a very pretty, intelligent, vivacious gal with a great career who’s something of a serial monogamist, with one-night stands scattered between her relationships (and occasionally during them). She’s told me a few times that she prefers being single to being in a relationship, because she feels like she has to work too hard to be careful not to make any “mistakes.” For her, fulfillment might not ever be settling down, or it might be settling down with a guy she has an understanding with that they can both see other people, or that they take separate vacations and don’t talk about what happens, or whatnot. Or it might be staying single (relatively) until she gets a bit older and her sex drive goes down and the desire for a more steady companion goes up.

The “open relationship” or “open marriage” option (more on that in Wikipedia here) might be a good option, if you’re comfortable with it, but you’d want to make sure you went into with a guy with a similarly high sex drive to you – a guy who wants to continue seeking passion and novelty, but maintain a steady companion too. A guy with a sex drive too much lower than yours will eventually stop getting new girls, and then start getting jealous that you’re still getting new guys. There’s also stuff like swinging, which, depending on where you live, can actually be a pretty big scene. Certain parts of Europe and California have large swinger communities, but they exist more or less everywhere. There are lots of committed couples who get bored of the same partners all the time and want to mix things up without breaking up.

These may not be exactly what you’re looking for, but if you want to have your cake and eat it too, they’re some of the more practical options. And maybe they’ll start some mental wheels turning about what you’d really like, long term.

Chase

Wallflower I Am Not's picture

Hey Chase,

You are awesome! I know you try hard to help us all here. I hope you get rewarded for it somehow in some way. Your blog has been helping me understand myself and overcome depression, among many other things, and for this I want to thank you.

Well, yes, you are right, everything you are suggesting should work and has been turning my mental wheels for quite some time now, but the thing is... I am in a situation that pretty much cannot change. Maybe you can guess what I mean here. It's a bit too late in the game for me to do that. I should have thought about all this 10 years ago or so, but I was a different person then and I don't think I can have my cake and eat it too at this point. I have to figure out a way to maybe keep my sex drive in check. Maybe I can use your theory of actively blocking those thoughts and after a while maybe I will stop having them.. Do think this can work? If it worked for me to overcome my depressive thoughts, maybe it can also work to help me deal with my physiological urges as well?? Do you think it's doable? Or am I just tricking myself into thinking that this is an option? I have to say that by actively blocking my negative thoughts and by adopting your "existing for the sake of existence" theory I have become a little calmer already, something about it appeals to me. I just need help with this passion thing. And I cannot have, as I said, an open relationship/marriage, etc. It is not an option at this point :(

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Wallflower-

Got it. You need something else to do with those urges then.

The thing with depression, you're not actually blocking the thoughts so much as you redirecting them. So, where your brain would ordinarily take a pathway of rumination and obsessive thinking and negative fantasizing, you throw a switch on the railroad and send your train of thoughts down a different path.

If you try to block your sexual urges, you'll end up going crazy (and doing things you'd rather not do)... but what you CAN do is redirect them. What you want to do instead is tap into sexual transmutation. If you look around you notice that both among men and women, the most successful individuals are almost always those with very high sex drives. There is a bit of a feedback loop between victory and sex drive, but the bigger thing at play is rather the channeling of sex energy into productive energy.

In the "How to Be Edgy" article I talked about Mozart, Picasso, and Tesla as a few examples of successful, edgy guys; they were also guys with very high sex drives. Mozart had six children, something you'd be hard-pressed to do without a fair bit of sex; Picasso had four, plus a number of wives and mistresses - both of these men also channeled a lot of their sexual energy into their crafts. Tesla claimed to have a strong desire for women but abstained from them completely because he considered his work very important and thought that sex would drain his energy and distract him from it; he died celibate. Isaac Newton supposedly had a high sex drive, but died celibate as well... rumors are he was homosexual, but could not accept that about himself (he was deeply religious), and so channeled all his sexual energy into other areas instead. Benjamin Franklin talks about how he wasted a lot of his sexual energy in flings with girls before he tapped the power of transmutation to make himself a more productive man. And as far as women, it's always been my experience that women with advanced educations and/or high-powered careers almost universally across the board have elevated testosterone levels and much higher sex drives than the norm (part of why I like them so much... low drive girls are boring!).

Napoleon Hill has a whole chapter on the subject in his book Think and Grow Rich - you can actually read that chapter online, here.

If you can train yourself to do this, all you need then is an outlet - something you want to build, or create, or design, or conquer, that you can pour that sexual energy into and transmute into productive energy. It could be an art; it could be a business you're building; it could be a sport; it could be a hobby like mountaineering or scuba diving or body-sculpting for modeling competitions - they have these for women; female body models - not the super-bulky bodybuilder chicks, but the ones who look like this:

... are always impressive. Writing, acting, surfing, shooting, playing billiards, painting, public speaking... anything, really. Pick something you've always wished you could do, and channel your energy into mastering it, so long as you really DO really want it.

A high sex drive is like a massive power generator. Potentially dangerous if left wide open and chaotic, but an extremely potent weapon and engine for change and progress when properly harnessed and directed.

All you really need to figure out is what you're passionate enough about that you can use it for, and you're in business.

Chase

Wallflower I Am Not's picture

Hey! You are really cool, posting all this information for me. I appreciate it a lot.

I read both your article on edginess and the Napoleon Hill's article and I was happy to learn that it is possible to not lose your mind and redirect your thoughts into something more productive. Thanks for giving me that hope.

I am, however, mildly confused as to how I would go about accomplishing such a thing... I couldn't quite understand how it is supposed to be done. I guess maybe I should just try and see if I can do it somehow? I am going to try this today :)

What I do for a living is something I absolutely love and am extremely passionate about, so I think that if I can figure out a way to actually redirect my sexual thoughts into being more productive that would be the bomb!! Sometimes I play out a scenario in my mind such as what if I could have a fantastic sex life all my life, but give up what I do? Or vice versa. And I battle with that one. Sometimes sex wins, other times it doesn't. Sounds childish perhaps, but they are very closely ranked in my mind as the things I love to do most in life and so you saying that individuals who are most accomplished have high sex drives interested me.

As for exercising, I do a fair amount of that already, but I find that the more I exercise and the better I look the more sex I want :) Then I read up on this and found out that exercise boosts testosterone? and makes your hornier.

Anyway, so if I can learn to redirect my thoughts the right way, maybe I can just do exceptionally well with my daytime passion and to hell with all the wild sex drama :)))) You are giving me hope!

So, going back to Napoleon's artice, the only one thing that I was kind of weary about is his mentioning of love and God. Both the concept of love and spirituality is something I have been having real problems quite grasping for myself and I don't quite understand them. There are so many variations of love.... and spirituality is just as complex too I feel. So, as I was nearing the end of the article I began to lose hope once again but maybe with time I will be able to understand what Napoleon meant there too.

All in all, Chase, you are one of my favorite people right now, even though I never met you!

Anonymous's picture

This is fascinating. I thought the same thing when I read this article: do I have to choose between sex and stability? Am I chasing the holy grail?

What if I really, really value good sex, to the point that I would worry that a guy who doesn't want to have it right away might not have a high enough drive for me if we did get into a relationship? And why should I 'pretend' I don't want it early on in the dating stages just to be able to be in the dominant position to someone who doesn't need sex as much as I actually want it.

Have you had any more insights into this in the past few months?

Pandy's picture

What are your thoughts on transition between soft and strong qualities based on your post "4 Kinds of Girls and which..." As I have felt that I am soft and exhibit more and more strong qualities as I progress.

This being said I have noticed that as a soft/experienced man I assume can take a soft/inexperienced women to bed quickly (though being a softy may mean not pushing for what you want) but a strong woman can wrangle in a wine and dine before leading a soft man to bed being more dominant than the man. As a strong and experienced man I am not compatible with the strong experienced woman and am able to take any woman I AM compatible with to bed quickly.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Pandy-

It's uncommon to go from soft to strong - it essentially means completely altering how you do things - but if you transition effectively to strong in thought and action, preferences appear to naturally follow suit. It's much more common to move from inexperienced to experienced than to change from soft to strong.

I'm not sure if it's a permanent move, though, or if it's more of a forcing-yourself-into-a-role deal where at some point in the future when you let your guard down you'll begin reverting to old you. I've seen guys who went from FT/EX to TR/EX revert back eventually (once in long-term relationships); this seems to be the usual pattern. It might be though that these friends simply hadn't completed the transition before settling down, and that had they done so, they'd permanently be strong. I haven't seen enough examples play out over the long term though to get that good of a read - so on transitioning soft-to-strong over the course of years, I'd say your guess is as good as mine.

I would caution against holding strong up as an absolute ideal, though; there are strengths and weaknesses to both the strong and the soft personality types - two sides to the coin in either category.

Chase

Hitch's picture

Great level of detail with these articles Chase. Thanks for taking the time to break it down in such a way...

Anonymous's picture

So I came to the conclusion based on your article that the longer a woman makes a man waits, the more power she has and he becomes subservient to her desires.

This means that the majority of marriages happened because the woman was dominate enough to get the man to propose to her.

At the same time, women initiate the majority of divorces whereas men are more likely to cheat in a long term relationship, yet many men continues to stayed with the wife.

Therefore my theory is this:

A dominate woman that was able to make a man wait for sex is more willing to divorce her husband when he cheats on her (because he got tired of being subservient, but is unwilling to leave) than a woman that sleeps with a man fast.

Do you disagree?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Well, keep in mind that relationships where the male is subservient last longer and have lower divorce rates (Ricardus talks about this here). There was a discussion about this on the boards here - basically, from everything I've seen, it looks as though the higher divorce rate is because submissive women have options, and when they're unhappy they leave, but submissive men do NOT have options, and when they're unhappy they just suck it up and stay.

It doesn't seem to be the submissive/unhappy men who cheat - women cheat because they're unhappy, but men seem to be much more likely to cheat when they're dominant and happy and feeling powerful (that's when they're more attractive to other women, and when they are more confident they can "get away" with it or that if they lost their current girl, it wouldn't be such a big deal and they could take it). A submissive man has lower testosterone levels as a result of his being dominated, and thus a lower sex drive, a lower propensity for risk-taking, and a lower level of attractiveness to other women.

Women who sleep with men quickly or end up in the submissive role in the relationship do spend more time deliberating if they're going to leave, but they're still a lot more likely to leave a relationship than a submissive man is.

On marriage, it's an interesting topic, but historically it's been men who pursued marriage and women who recoiled from it. That's changed somewhat today, with many women pushing for it harder and men recoiling, but there are still a lot of men who very much want to get married, and a lot of women who remain ambivalent about the institution. So while there may be cases of women dominating men into marriage, there are lots of other cases of men dominating women into marriage, or the two making a joint decision that it's what they both want. Among my friends, I have men who've been dominated into marriage by controlling girlfriends and other men for whom marriage is what they've always wanted (and now have, or will have soon). Men who don't reproduce are usually easier to bully into marriage because their biological imperatives start wresting control of them, figuring that their logical minds have failed them (e.g., they've logically decided they don't want kids, so their bodies make them weak-willed against women until they get steam-rolled into marriage and, eventually, children, usually somewhere between 30 and 35, though I do have friends who are only now falling prey to this in their 40s).

So, I'd say, when the woman is dominant, you'll see more cheating by her, and less need to divorce her husband, who is sitting patiently by waiting for her to come back from her liaisons with various men. Meanwhile, when the man is dominant, you'll see more cheating by him, but here the submissive partner (the woman) has options - men in her life who hit on her, flirt with her, ask her out - so, unlike a submissive male, she has an exit path, and if she becomes unhappy enough with the dominant partner's treatment of her she'll take it. (and of course, there are relationships where no one cheats - we're just discussing the different likely scenarios precipitating divorce. And there are other reasons why the submissive partner will be unhappy with a marriage and likely to leave it aside from cheating, too)

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hi Chase,
Thank you so much for writing this article. Hopefully you could take the time to give me a bit of advice. I wish I had found this article before I went to bed with the guy I'm currently seeing. I've only been with my two previous boyfriends, and I'm 22 (the last one was for five years; I've always been faithful).
But this new guy, he's so sexy. Our first date, in the movie theatre, he grabbed me and pressed himself into me and gave me a kiss like I'd never had before. It was amazing. I was breathless. I had to go to the bathroom and try to gain composure. The very next day was Valentine's Day, and he brought me roses to work. He would text me saying how "absolutely beautiful" I was. It all happened so fast for me. He swept me up.
Sex with him was all I thought about. He even snuck into my workplace to press me up against the wall in the back room. How could I not think about it? We went out to the movies again the week after, and the movie was so dull that we decided to leave. As we were walking out of the theatre, he pushed me up against the wall and put his hands all over me. And, I think at this point, I hadn't had sex that I actually really wanted to have in about two years (That's my own fault, obviously.).
Long story...still pretty long...we did have sex. Afterwards, I felt a tremendous rush of guilt and shame. I'd never done that before. He said, "Don't pull away from me.". But the next day, we talked, and we both said we didn't want that to happen so quickly. He said he wanted to start over and go slow. That he didn't want to rush into things. And we still talk. We still go out. He came into my work yesterday, just to see me and give me a hug. He always texts me to say "Sweet dreams" before bed. But I know it's going slower than before. And I know the ball is in his court, but...what should I be doing? He's definitely a busy guy. He works and he's a musician. I know I can't really fix it or go back in time, but what CAN I do? I really don't want to be seen as cheap or easy when I know that I'm a really good, devoted girlfriend who just made a mistake. If you can help me, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

Anonymous's picture

I enjoyed this article but disagree that if I woman holds out on the sex she has the power in the relationship. I think for a number of women they are aware of the stigma of sleeping with someone too quickly and hold out as a mechanism of securing commitment. What I observe, however, is that this doesn't always dictate the power in a relationship and I know plenty of women who played the "hold out" game and ended up with no power in the relationship. I think the notion of commitment is the most important force and this is something that men usually can hold out on-thus if a woman wants a committed relationship she will potentially struggle with having the upper hand because ultimately she's waiting for him to step up. And to me that's regardless of who had sex first. The power dynamic is all about commitment.

Hum's picture

I agree with you. Chase's theory about time to sex being the big factor is not born out by my experience. Neither in power dynamics nor in a woman's perception of your rank as being the most manly or sexually charged partner over the course of her life. Perhaps I am an uber dominant exception, but I seriously doubt that.

Anonymous's picture

I'm a TR/EX guy and I'm seeing a TR/EX (from my understanding) woman. She has told me about a phase in her life where she had a few one-night stands (without me asking) and she's pretty into me (why will anyone do that?) Though I'm cool with it. From what I have seen in my life, a lot of relationships with a dominant male partner have been successful over the long term (marriage) with the female very happy and doting over her husband. Also, somehow my T-Rex gf becomes coy and feminine around me (much to the jealousy of other guys) ;) I love Your posts but am not able To make sense out of these things I have seen in my experience. An anomaly? The part I can't get my head around the most is that why did she tell me about her one-night flings if she likes me so much? Lol, totally perplexing to me! Can you throw some light on this situation? Big fan

Ragi's picture

Girl said she needs to be in a relationship to have sex. What relationship is that? Is she in love with me? She kept saying that she is just infatuated with me and i'm confused. It came to a point when she started giving me nickname like pretzel. We had a fling for almost 2 months and she ended it. Please help to identify this for me. Thanks

echase01's picture

When it comes to what date to have sex, I currently have this idea:

"Ideally on the first or second date, and sex MUST happen somewhere between the third or fourth date. Third date is usually the max, MAYBE fourth date max depending on circumstances. BUT also be warned, sleeping with you too soon can be a HUGE red flag of promiscuity and future infidelity, even if she says "I've never done this" or "I don't usually do this". Is three too many/too long? Is ANYTHING past 1 too many/too long to get the desired effect?

And should I be looking at dates, or the number of days/weeks? What is the absolute max before you stop pursuing a girl in order to get the desired effect of her viewing you as that dominant attractive powerful man?

Not sure how to reconcile this yet.

How do I reconcile needing to a get a woman to bed relatively fast vs not wanting a woman who goes/has gone to bed with other men fast? I want this desired effect, but also when looking for LTR women want women who don't have casual sex/aren't promiscuous/don't go to bed with other men fast and have low partner counts

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