The 4 Stages of Every Friends with Benefits Relationship | Girls Chase

The 4 Stages of Every Friends with Benefits Relationship

Chase Amante

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Chase Amante's picture

In Colt's piece on female intrasex competition, several commenters asked about the problem of getting a girl into a casual relationship, and keeping her there. To quote Sam, one of the commenters there:

Very few of them were ok with a strict lover arrangement. All others wanted more than that and whenever I had the nerve to show or say to them that I was not into more than a lover arrangement I simply lost the girl either because she would cut me off or because I would not further pursue her.

The problem, of course, is that "friends with benefits" is not an end goal for most women. That is to say, a casual sexual relationship - where you are a lover and nothing more - just ain't enough.

friend with benefits relationship

You can maintain casual relationships for varying lengths of time, depending on a number of factors, mainly having to do with the stage in her life a girl is at, and your value relative to hers in the relationship. We'll talk more about both of these below.

But the main gist of this article will focus on the four (4) stages that every friends with benefits relationship must follow:

  1. The Fun Stage
  2. The Relaxed Stage
  3. The Restless Stage
  4. The Decision Stage

... and the varying details on each.


340Breeze's picture

Happy new year man! Great article as usual.

Even before I knew what I was doing with women, when I was still nervous around them, I always kept them at arm’s length, I never fully committed, I always wanted more, I never could satisfy with just one woman. Maybe something was missing inside of me that no woman could ever fulfill. Unfair to them now that I think back on it, but I sought FWB's by default. Sometimes I didn't even want FWB status at all; I just purely wanted the benefits without being friends at all, and I had the nerve to get mad at girls when they got mad at me for requesting this arrangement. Kind of ridiculous. I’ve changed. A little.

But thinking back on my early days with girls, the only time I ever felt like I SWOONED back then was when a rare girl came along, unexpectedly, that was gorgeous intelligent and extremely exciting. I said goodbye to my default FWB strategy and welcomed her as my first GF! But even back then I didn’t instantly jump on having a relationship with her; I guess I had an intuitive understanding to wait things out a little. But it's kind of interesting how that all played out because there were all those women that I met that I was relatively indifferent toward and didn't care one way or the other whether or not they wanted a relationship, because my mind was already made up not to have one. Then suddenly one appeared on the scene and she effortlessly caused my indifference to evaporate... without warning... and I suddenly felt feelings for a woman that I'd never felt before. I loved the enthusiasm.

But thinking about your article though, I have a few questions.

1) If some women (even the women perceived as rare and exciting) are used to having to go thru a FWB first, wouldn't they be suspicious regarding a man's attractiveness, preselection, and other female options, if the guy confesses his enthusiasm and adoration and commitment much too soon? Without her first having to experience the uncertainty of whether or not the new liaison will develop into something more, and her having to do some work (e.g. advertise how cool a gf she would make) to get what she wants? Guess it makes sense then to keep your composure, and even if a woman makes you SWOON try your hardest to remain non-plussed. Like it’s not really that big a deal. And put her to work if she wants to keep you, especially in case she's been a victim of FWB's before (meaning she's used to having to work for being someone's GF).

2) This leads to my next question. When it comes to a man sharing his enthusiasm with his new woman (especially one who effortlessly makes him SWOON), what's a good strategy? Use non-verbals to communicate warmth? Wait until she first shows signs of being enthusiastic, but not before? Like what’s a good way of letting girls know early on that you REALLY like them without them feeling like they’ve WON!? Or should you even bother in communicating how much you really like them, especially if you're getting all the sex you can stand? Why expend more effort? But it's kind of annoying worrying about holding enthusiasm inside for strategy’s sake, especially if you have no qualms in sharing how you feel. But at the same time it'd be sad that employing a losing strategy in the timing and presentation of your enthusiasm (that she effortlessly instills inside of you) causes her to want to puke. Why lose when you don't have to lose from bad presentation? Guess it just pays to try and see what works and what doesn't work, since each woman is different. But if you have any ideas, it'd be cool to see what you have to say.

3) And why do you think some attractive women are so high maintenance? Is it because they get so much male attention, that if they start to feel less special from being in a FWB for too long, resulting in an itch to move on to one of the other readily-available male options? Seems like your natural friend found a strategy to minimize his effort and maximize his results (when considering the commodity services that women provide).
Or are they high-maintenance in part due to their desire to compete with their friends/other women (aka 'the keep up with the Joneses effect'). So if a man wants nothing more than FWB (meaning his woman probably doesn't feel all that special), and this man isn't her 'secret lover,' and her friends/other women advertise to her how special they feel when around their "boyfriends," and these women ask her: "so is Johnny your boyfriend yet," wouldn't that also put pressure on her emotions to seek a relationship or move on?



Chase Amante's picture


Neat experiences here - nice to hear from a guy who jumped into it right from the beginning (it's a change of pace for me from reading the comments from guys who just want to know "how do I do this?").

Yes, women who've gone the FWB-to-LTR path before, or who've otherwise dated men who ramp things up fast without reservation, do tend to be more suspicious of men who plunge too quickly into things - they view them usually either as inexperienced and naïve or, worse (from the woman's point of view), emotionally capricious and intemperate, and liable to have their emotions flip again with them losing interest at a moment's notice. Guys who are very fast movers in relationships tend to be emotional men, and the relationship will often end as suddenly and explosively as it began. It's exciting the first time or two a girl experiences it, but she becomes cautious pretty fast; or, if she's been conditioned to expect she has to earn a relationship, she'll also be skeptical from Day 1 with a relationship fast-mover.

If you can legitimately gush with enthusiasm and make the praise genuine, this can be effective at winning over even a lot of very skeptical girls. Men with borderline personality disorder, for instance, do this effusively, and they're very charming for a great deal of women, because they come across like the perfect passionate romancer. I couldn't tell you exactly how to use this style, as it's different from what I'd recommend to most guys, except to say that among my friends who indulge in large doses of praise and enthusiasm, they seem to have a "dawning realization" at first ("Hmm… you're actually really good at [X]"), followed by gradually heaping increasing amounts of praise and enthusiasm on the other person. I'd caution you to be very careful with this though, as 1.) it conditions others to become dependent on your approval, which is going to make them needy and weak around you, 2.) people who've been around those who heap on praise and enthusiasm tend to be skeptical, because they know it doesn't last, and 3.) when the enthusiasm subsides (as it always does), the girl ends up feeling like something has been lost from the relationship, you don't care about her as much, and you'll start dealing with increasing amounts of problems from her.

As for women not wanting to stay in FWB, I don't think it's male attention so much as it is that the FWB relationship has fulfilled its role, and it's time to move on. If you imagine a world without contraceptives and what role friends-with-benefits would play in that context, it'd seem to largely be one where a woman offers a man sex to try and net him into a long-term relationship, OR she sleeps with a man because he's so legitimately high value compared to her, even if he won't provide for her. If it's for a man who will provide for her young, once she realizes she's not going to get that from him, it's time to move on and find a man she can get it from, before the clock runs out on her beauty, youth, and reproductive years. If it's for his genes, well, he's got a several month window to impregnate her while she locks down a nicer guy who can take care of her and keep her clothed and fed and protected, which, if you look at a lot of girls' patterns, there are a LOT of them that very quickly follow up FWB relationships with serious relationships with "nice guys"…. they seem to be following a strategy of "give the sexy guy a 3-month window to impregnate me, then pair up with a nice guy who won't question whether it's his child and who will provide for me." Of course, in today's world, we have contraceptives, but people still follow their patterns.


Anonymous's picture

if the guy knows that I like him, but proposes FWB instead because he doesn't want a relationship, does that mean he is trying to take advantage of the situation? He definitely seemed interested and genuine at first, and is very caring and helpful with work, because we are co workers. However, he doesn't flirt at all anymore through text messages, and doesn't text or call me to initiate any kind of communication besides work, if necessary. this is after FWB conversation, when I initially proposed let's just be friends. Why is that?

Anonymous's picture

Have you ever touched on the transactional interplay between the various purposes that both men and women want from each other?

Let me explain what I mean. Based on this article, you imply that women tire of the FWB arrangement with men because those women have a purpose for some unknown male to fill. Women want things such as (More attention More comfort More security More passion More involvement More Conversation More adventure ... more everything). And when they realize they won’t get that they get what they want they get frustrated and they bail out.

But the only reason why some of them even entered into the FWB arrangement in the first place was in the hopes of getting their entire panoply of needs met to the “T”. Not necessarily meeting yours (conversation and sex). But women are the choosers.

So it seems like the whole reason why they embarked on the journey with you in the first place is for what they thought they could get…and when they realize that they’re not going to get as much as they feel entitled to getting, they protest and end the FWB arrangement and go find some other man that is willing and able to fulfill his end of what she thinks the transaction should be. If this is the truth, then this is another reason why men shouldn't necessarily feel all that special just for being born and existing and feeling entitled to having girls liking them!! Because as can be seen by your article, if you fail to give girls the transactional value they desire, then they usually bail out eventually. I guess this one more refutation to the statement that so many guys seem to make “but she should like me for me!”

jack's picture

All humans require value in their relationships, no matter what those relationships are. Self-sacrifice is not a human ethics. The thing is that woman have pluralistic sexual strategies or short-term and long-term needs. Those needs are often met by different men, at least when women are in their 20s. FWB offers women the option of having their short-term sexual needs met; i.e. their "good genes" needs or the ability to have sex with a more dominant, more confident man with higher psychological strength. In essence the "alpha". Women will then get their long term commitment and comfort needs with less confident but more caring men; i.e. "betas".

But women can also use the FWB to try and lock down a man of high value. They can try to convert a short term lover into a long term boyfriend. Thus the FWB serves a multitude of uses for a woman. But in the end, as with all relationships, needs must be met. And FWB arrangements do not provide for a woman's long term need. Thus she must enter into another "transaction".

Chase Amante's picture

Great analysis by Jack in his response here.

The transactional nature of all relationships is a fascinating subject, though not one I believe I've gone into too in-depth on its own on the site. The most relevant articles might be the one on throwing people under the bus when necessity demands or convenience allows, and the one on value imbalances.

All relationships at the core can be boiled down to an exchange. When I discuss the different kinds of exchanges in this sense, I usually differentiate between pure transactional ("You give me this concrete thing, I give you that") vs. relationship-building ("I'll build my relationship up with you, in the hope/intention that you'll do likewise and we'll have a mutually beneficial relationship"). By this definition, I'd define a purely transactional exchange as I give you $50, and in exchange you help me set up my Internet; compared to relationship-building, which would be I give you $50, because you're my friend and you need a loan. The expectation of the second type of exchange is that by giving things to you and doing things for you, over time, we're going to have an increasingly strong relationship, and you'll begin returning value to me. If enough time goes by and I feel like my overtures are not being sufficiently reciprocated, though, I begin to believe that my relationship-building exchanges are not working, and grow disillusioned with the relationship.

Relationship-building exchanges are much harder to quantify and qualify because they take so many forms and lack a clear outcome - e.g., I can't say, "My relationship-building exchanges have been a success if [X] happens," because [X] may happen but not the way I want it to, or only after I've put in way more than [X] is really worth to me, and what not. It's still at the core a transactional exchange, but it's a messier transaction because it's less defined and relies more on a gut, intuitive sense.

In the case of the FWB relationship, after several months go by, the woman begins feeling intuitively that her relationship-building efforts are not being reciprocated, and begins to feel like she is wasting her time, and instead of feeling good about contributing to the relationship, she begins feeling bad. So, she starts withdrawing, and then she exits.


Anonymous's picture

I want to add another reason for a woman for entering the FWB. This one is probably a seldom one. For self growth and learning. The guy in this case, besides sex, is so to say a training material. I learned non reaction and non attachment this way. Plus I learned male psychology quite well. I was always choosing the same type of men - emotionally unavailable. So I decided to break a circle. I did this with two guys who happened to be my crushes and did not want commitment.

In the first case I managed to break dynamics with a man. He developed feelings. I, on the contrary have lost them by finding out that all what attracted me to him was his game. As soon as I started to see through it my behavior changed. My value has grown, his - has fallen.

Another such relationship I am in - for the same reason (he does not know about it). He is already getting jealous and tries to make him jealous. I practice non reaction. Seem to work on everybody. I guess those reasons are rare but I believe other women might do this for similar purpose.

Another reason if a guy has a fear of intimacy. And is very insecure but wears a mask of a bad boy - very often case. Sometimes this is the only way to get through. U put his barrier down by having no expectations. And then change the dynamics of value. Not a fact a woman would not lose attraction afterwards - when she gets to know him closer.

jack's picture


Awesome post. But here's another suggestion. Could you write a post on the life cycle of mLTRs? They are the more complicated relationship arrangement; essentially an open girlfriend set-up. My guess is that you have a lot of experience with these.

Chase Amante's picture


Sure can do - I'll add it to the list.


Danny's picture

Dear Chase,

It must be really AWESOME to read a post on how to have Multiple Long Term Relationship simultaneously! Or at least a Life Cycle Analysis on MLTRs would at least help us recognize how to start this interesting interaction with multiple high quality girls we have in our lives.

Look forward on this


JS's picture

Hey Chase,

I'm a bit confused on what you think of kissing a girl when the logistics don't allow you to bed her right then and there. I'm mostly talking about social circle game but this has popped up in cold approaches as well. In this scenario, should I view going for the kiss as abiding by "move fast" or as a detrimental act that would release the tension and only serve to have me sorted as "potential boyfriend".
In , for instance, you said "haven't kissed her [...] or done anything else knuckleheaded like that". Did you mean having kissed her was knuckleheaded, or not having kiss her?

Finally, the main reason I'm asking is because I'm afraid I'm entering early boyfriend zone with this girl in my social circle who I made out with, wasn't able to bed on the same night due to awful logistics (can't sleep with her at my place), and now having a hard time beating her "long term boyfriend" cautiousness. Although I would definitely appreciate input on that specific case (I read the early boyfriend post, but am not sure how having repeatedly made out with her places me there), I mostly want to avoid this happening again. Was it a mistake to have first made out with her, rather than waiting for more promising logistics?
I really can't thank you enough for the positive change reading this site has given me. With women and in life. Stay safe and good luck in anything you decide to take on.


Chase Amante's picture


I normally recommend against kissing in public or outside of the place where you're going to sleep with a girl unless you know just what you're doing. It causes girls to "peak" sexually, and if you don't deliver the goods after this, it's interpreted as you having initiated sexual escalation but having failed or been stopped by her (or her having gotten her fill or lost interest).

That said, if you want to know how to do it properly, or what a deeper explanation of why not to do it if you can't do it properly, see this article: "How to Kiss Girls in Public and Have It Go Great."


340Breeze's picture

Since I already commented on this article, I'll comment on another one here.

So I was reading your asshole article and I couldn't agree more. The path toward dominance is freeing yourself from attachment to people's approval and it's hard to do that if you're too polite and not asshole enough. It's so much easier and COMFORTABLE to do what you want when people's approval and them liking you aren't hidden subconscious goals of yours. So it's good to adopt the mindsets of going after what you want first and telling whoever doesn't like it to pound sand while of course not going out of your way to piss people off. So your message is only do it when necessary.

That's what I want to focus on.
Much of your advice on the technical side seems to be reactionary and on the defense vs proactive and on the offense.

For example, in technical recommendation #5 you say: disagree with people. By implication this means someone must first have a position for you to then disagree with. Reactive. Likewise in #2)you say when people fish for compliments bust their stones. Very funny. Very assholish. But still reactive, since if you take your advice literally, if people don't first fish for anything then there's nothing for you to bust on. Similar reactive arguments can be made for most of the points except #4. Not saying this is bad but just an observation.

So my question to you is, is your message on being an asshole then: "the best way to go about being an asshole is in response to other people?" What are your thoughts about going on the offense, being proactive and bringing some asshole energy when you feel like without first having to wait on other people to respond. Do you have any technical recommendations for going about being an effective proactive asshole (whether playful or sexual) or would you recommend waiting until someone first acts for you to react like an asshole, if necessary? Or would being a proactive asshole violate sprezzatura and make you have to expend more effort (being an asshole) in getting what you want (sex, etc)?

Just a curiosity of mine.



Chase Amante's picture


Interesting questions on the nuances in this comment section (this and your previous comment).

I think a good way of thinking about the asshole mentality (as I define it, anyway) is "if everyone was totally in control of himself and properly socially calibrated, no one would ever need to act like an asshole, ever." The asshole is more a reaction to 1.) people trying to get "stuff" from you (whether approval, or validation, or social status, or what have you), or 2.) people trying to nudge you out of the way so they can get "stuff" from someone or something else.

The strongest "proactive asshole" example I can come up with is Steve Jobs's management style. Jobs management style was to aggressively challenge anything he found lacking - e.g., he'd tell people things sucked in blunt terms, or were terrible, etc. This is active challenging, being abrasive, and is something you'd probably term proactive asshole behavior. It's dicey, because it's polarizing behavior - you alienate a lot of people, but certain people absolutely adore you. If you're good with it, it can make you look quite powerful. However, because you're putting the effort out first, it's easy for someone who's a bigger asshole than you to come back and tear you apart IF you're inaccurate in your criticisms OR he's not open to hearing them and just wants to put you in your place.

You might also say that stating your own opinions can be very proactive asshole. I very much try to make the articles I write here as accessible to a broad audience as I possibly can, but I still have people who come on here and say, "You're an asshole for talking about women this way," or "You're an asshole for teaching this." Any time you tell it like it is, there are always going to be people who are offended, and the less you sugar coat things, the more of them there are.

For purposes of seduction, I'd suggest keeping your "proactive asshole" under wraps most of the time, and just employing it defensively. However, if you start getting hints that a girl you're talking with is going to agree with your opinions, you can start making strong opinions and criticizing people who think differently, and if your read is right, she'll become very excited, very quickly. The reason I don't recommend this more is because most of the women you'll meet will have enough opinion differences with you that throwing around your opinions too loudly scares most of them off.

Then again, you can always use it as a combined screen/magnet - scare off the women you wouldn't get along with anyway, and attract to yourself the ones you absolutely would.

There's also general bullying / teasing other people, what I term social ladder climbing; if you find yourself doing it to or around a sufficiently socially aware person, he'll turn it back on you at twice the strength, and if you do it around a sufficiently socially aware woman, she'll read it as a sign you're of upper middle class social status or so, rather than elite. So this form of proactive asshole is generally avoided, unless you're around all lower status, less socially attuned women, who may mistakenly find it an impressive show of dominance.


Gem's picture

Hey Chase,

Do you have any tips on not building a reputation (or extra unwanted attention) getting girls in college?

There was a Ricardus article I remember reading a while back where Ricardus mentions a guy who would always notice him walking with a different girl and would smile and say "you never fail man, never!". I've been having a similar sort of thing happen to me lately as I've been more regularly movingn/pulling girls away from the library.


Chase Amante's picture


The post I'd direct you to would be Peter's article on this from his social circle series: "Killer Reputation Management for Your Social Circle"; although, the whole series (4 articles) is good if you want a solid handle on reputation management in social circles in general.

When it comes to specific venues, you'll go through that if you have favorite venues; the best thing to do is make friends with the people who are regularly there, and once they know you more personally, if they're cool, they'll usually hold their tongues so as not to mess you up. If they still keep doing it, it's easy to lean in the next time you see them and say, "Hey man... I don't know if I'll meet a girl today or whatnot, but if I do, can you not call stuff out? It kinda ruins the vibe. You can always high five me the next time you see me!" Being a little more discreet / less animated in your approach helps this too, as does going at different hours of the day and different days.


Troy's picture


I saw a comment and your reply in "The Wrapping and Present " article, about site navigation and there being a "site map". Well i want to share a few thoughts/Ideas:

1) I think there are ten categories here: phone numbers, sex e.t.c.. . maybe you could have a map with all articles in there categories where you click on one of the links and a map comes up with all the articles in a nice pattern (example: a cell phone pattern/picture with all articles relating to phone game dropped along here).

Think of when you would google a 3d map of the world and how you would see the buildings, roads and water bodies.

2) Or maybe a 3d map similar to what i said above.

3) I think a lot of men like video games so a map that is like a video game might be interesting. An example would be something similar to "grand theft auto" (or any game you see fit that you like). It could be like a challenge where you have to play a part of the game as a character who is completely unattractive to people (and girls) in every way but he goes through the game and upgrades himself. There would be a few patterns that he would have to choose (similar to the mini eBooks example: the first few tasks he has to tackle are stop chasing women, get over approach anxiety and get over victim mentality).

The game could be like a learning experience where the readers here play the game and sees a rough look at how there game character improves himself and at the same time the reader would have to go out and practise his skills instead of sitting at the computer all day playing a girlchase game on upgrading his CHARACTER skills instead of actively going out and getting better plus a homework guide.

This idea of mine about a game/map might be too much work for now and your technician might not be able to put a game together to do this. However i thought it would be interesting and maybe in the future when you get a game expert producer that you could work on this. What are your thoughts ON ALL this?

Chase Amante's picture


The map with different icons on it is a neat thought, yeah. At some point, what I really need to do is go through each of the articles and re-categorize them... the categories we've been placing articles in have gotten kind of arbitrary, and some key categories don't exist (e.g., we should have a separate "sex" category, but all the sex stuff has been going into "relationships", etc.). The part of the site is just a little wooly and in need of a good combing.

A game is an interesting concept; I've turned over a few ideas in my head over the past few years, but we're not close to being in a position where I could hire some talented game designers to make something that would work and be engaging and teach at the same time. I think an app is a better fit than a straight-up game, at least at first... the challenge is building one that gets guys actually doing assignments in real life, and not just with their noses in a video game. You can play through all 32 of the Romp games and help Jake "find the slut" (as they put it there) and still be no better at meeting women in real life, for instance, fun as those games are. So the question is, can you build something that people genuinely enjoy playing, and that gets them to improve their actual skill base at the same time?


Anonymous's picture

Hi Chase, hope you can help me with this problem I have.

Basically, I am unsure what I want and undecided between two lifestyles/relationship arrangements.

One half of me really desires a personal, connective lasting relationship with a girl - the other half wants to experiment and keep things casual, developing connections and exploring the physical side of things with multiple women.

I am at the stage where I understand relationship dynamics and feel in control of my own destiny so to speak, but I am stuck between two minds. Hope you can advise me how to come to a conclusion etc.

It's so hard, I think it would be lovely to have a relationship with a girl and only her, providing we felt the same and loved each other. I understand the intense emotions die down, but the simmering love and affection can be maintained if the chemistry is suited.

But also, the lifestyle of a seducer is appealing, gaining more experience with women, all the excitement etc.

I just don't know how to decide. There is really nothing that leans me towards a particular side. I don't feel pressured by either or belive that one is more right that the other etc.

But it's like if I were to find a girl I loved, how could I turn my back on that? At the same time I would be turning my back on loads of invaluable experience...

I know you'll probably say, if I feel I could do with more experience then I should gain that first, but I ask you:

How can you turn away love for a girl?

Also I feel no matter how much experience I gain there will always be more to had. One other little way of improving myself with women etc. I don't feel as though I will ever reach a stage where I feel completely 100% and so ready to give up learning, because there is always something new to learn.

Would appreciate your advice.

I worry about finding a girl who is perfect for me, but turning my back on it all and regretting it later. But at the same time I worry about getting myself all sucked into a relationship, and then thinking, man I totally should have just kept things casual and had some more fun over the last two years.

Chase Amante's picture


Both paths have much to teach you. I'd recommend keeping things not overly serious until you find a girl you're absolutely crazy about - and then, when you want that, you can do it. If your goal was "become legendary with women", I'd tell you otherwise... but that's kind of a niche goal, and not one that is really what most guys are after.

I assume you're still pretty young. When you're young, love can feel like this great big magical thing that is not to be missed out on, and fighting it really is quite taxing. Your first few relationships you tend to assume will of course last forever, but once you've gone into and come out of a few of them, your mentality changes, and you realize that a girlfriend is not a wife. At that point, once you have some relationship experience under your belt, you'll have come out on the other side from the intensity of an early relationship, and you'll say to yourself, "All right. I don't want to do THAT again for quite a while. Let's go keep things light and casual for now."

And then at some point eventually you'll probably start craving the closeness of a more serious relationship again. People are cyclical in this way.

So, I'd say... don't worry about it too much. Try not to get stuck with the first girl who comes along just because she's there and she's "good enough", but if you meet a girl who's great, there's no reason not to take some time off and explore a relationship with her. Most people go through a good number of relationships before they retire from the game for good, and even many of those who settle down into a marriage "forever" end up back single again 5 or 10 or 15 years later, picking up right where they left off. The older you get, the less permanent everything begins to seem.


Royce's picture

Awesome article Chase! I'd like to get your opinion on younger guys(-17) sleeping with older girls(18+) and the potential risks, benefits, and whether you'd recommend it or not. Seeing you have exceptional amounts of experience with women and probably with life/law because you're in business, I thought it would be best to ask you. Thanks


Chase Amante's picture


Not much light I can shine there, except to say check out the laws for your state / country - you'll want to make sure you're not putting the girls you're getting together with at any legal risk. Last thing you want to end up with is some girl ending up in prison because she decided to take a chance on you!


African boyo's picture

Hi chase

From reading your articles and my own experience ive realised that getting a girl attracted to you is about providing good feelings and remaining scarce. I had a question about good feelings specifically as the only ones i know are to provide laughter and good sex. My question is is there anything more than those two. I was thinking i could add being romantic to the list but it seems a bit tryhard and may come across as me investing more than her.could you please list the other good feelings that get a girl hooked on someone

Chase Amante's picture


Yes, absolutely, all kinds of good feelings, including:

Some of those you might not necessarily term "good" (e.g., scarcity, competitiveness, etc.), but women love the thrill of them, and chase you down because they feel them - you get to be a the real life equivalent of a horror movie or a roller coaster ride... you give them sensations that electrify them and make them feel alive, and because of this, they want you more.

Laughter is a good feeling, but it's a defuser of tension - it's only one side of the equation. You must build the tension first, then release it with laughter. Too much laughter without the requisite tension just leads to a "that guy is funny and always makes me laugh" feeling toward you, instead of a "damn that guy is sexy... and he doesn't take himself too seriously, either" feel, which is what you want.


Anonymous's picture

You are kind of an asshole, but you are absolutely correct---and I don't mean that as an insult. Just pointing out the literal.

I agree with most of what is being said, but there is one variable being left out, which is the older lady and younger guy. Which actually throws off dynamics intensely.

Most of my twenties, I spent a lot of time being that broad who would try to make the ole' FB my boyfriend. This really didn't work out. It never has, it never will when a woman tries this route (although someone told me 1 in 5 turn into that). BUT I find that even when women know they are wrong, they will still sometimes make bad decisions---be it from lack of self-esteem or just being stupid. Or drunk. Alcohold can affect this.

We know we do it, though.

Anyway, after my last long term relationship ended (7 years), it was a bevy of change and emotion. Personally, I was just not in a place to rapidly sleep with tons of dudes to get over it. Emotionally---not even close to wanting to be with someone again; To have to think too much about someone else's needs and thoughts. Sometimes you just don't feel like it.

So I started banging a guy I work with (I am 33 and he is 23.) And it's perfect. As someone who can get easily jealous, I have used this as an excercise for that amongst other things. And the fact that there really can't be much of a future at this point (It's not in me to take away this guys' livilihood even if he did "think" he loved me). NO way, no how. But, and I was wasted the first time I hit it with him, it was really, really good sex. And three months later it still is. I mean, the dude can lay it down.

Honestly, it's great. And sometimes hilarious. I mean, biologically as women, we do get emotionally attached, but I have experienced what this feels like, without it really being truly valid.

This all being said, I really just wanted to say something as a woman. I think most women engage in these situations for every reason you mentioned, I am not doubting that...BUT I am kind of over reading about how the only women who engage in these have self-esteem issues, etc. It's not everyone.

Sometimes women just need a temporary situation that fulfills that sexual need without having to even think about having real feelings for someone else. Obviously these have their own issues, and that's a whole other post.


Anonymous's picture

I just got into a FWB with this guy I met online since were both gamers and Im so happy about this kind of relationship that I really doubt Ill want to make it into something more, even though I really do care for the guy.

Just like the other girl here, I just got out of a long term relationship and swore to myself I would never be in a relationship again. I never wished to marry, never wanted kids and find monogamy so boring. FWB really is the most fitting for me and I wish it would stay forever this way. I mean, its already great that we can game together and have those really stupid but fun conversation, by adding sex to that its just awesome and crazy. I like it.

Maybe I just like my mens wild... somehow I get this horrible feeling that when they get into a Relationship they become caged animals. Maybe my friends are right when they say my brain functions as a men's haha.

Anyway, this post is scaring the hell out of me, I wish ill never turn into one of these girls that are said to get into a FWB Relationship and then completly change their mind. I really dont get them,these relationship thursty girls, wats so great about relationships? What about challenge? What about freedom? What about fun?

Good luck with your 23 years old dude gurl, u deserve it :)

Anonymous's picture

Hey! I am a woman in a FWB relationship and am actually a feminist and find a lot of articles of this type pretty sexist...

However, I think you approached this article with great insight and accuracy. Very well-written, telling both sides, fairly unbiased.

I really enjoyed reading it.

Just to give my perspective though, I am in a long-term FWB relationship. I am 27, he is 26. We've known each other for 8 years as friends, but the FWB has lasted one year. Both of us have wanted relationships at different times--when the other didn't, but we still wanted each other around after those awkward "talks."

Now, we're on the same page. And we're extremely close friends. We do things other than sex: going to movies, out to eat, bars, walks, meeting the families. And the FWB situation continues to endure and suit both of our needs. We see each other like twice a week.

But you're right about the "men wanting this to last forever" thing. He's even alluded to being FWB forever (making plans about 20 years from now and such).

I have wanted to be more in the past, but at this time, I think things are perfect and why mess up a good thing?

Jay C's picture

This is unbelievably spot on. My FWB just ended things recently because she wants to be with someone else and had been acting hot and cold up to that point. It's been driving me crazy because she's the best lay I've ever had. Thanks for putting things into perspective and making me feel much better about the situation.

Anonymous's picture

Really great article! This is the first article I have read that was written by a man who didn't come off as pompous or make a woman reader feel bad about herself as if our purpose was to serve ya'll sexually.

I met a professional athlete 6 years ago (I know red flag) and though I didn't take it seriously at first, he quickly pulled me in emotionally and I completely fell madly in love with him, only to be disappointed 3 years later. He never officially ended things with me. I was always the one who tried pulling out because I knew it wasn't going to last and I was hurt and unhappy. I guess the excitement of keeping me around is what kept him pursuing me. After 3 years, I found out about all his other girlfriends and all the manipulating lies he was telling me. I wasn't totally angry with him, because I was able to reason with myself and honestly say that I knowingly put myself in that situation having an idea of his reputation....however, the pathological lying and manipulation threw me for a loop.

There was so much drama, aruging, screaming matches, me storming off in tears, and yet he has always reached out to me. After 6 years, 2 divorces (both he and I are now divorced - I got married after he and I split), we are back in touch and trying to do the FWB relationship, which I would say has just reached the "Relaxed" phase. In fact, the last time I went out to see him he said just that "God, this is great, we are so relaxed! My comfort level with you is extraordinary! Damn!" Then of course I leave and the "comfort level" apparently drops altogether because I don't hear from him. I have always struggled with the FWB relationship with him and he is aware of that, but I know as long as I am willing to do it he has nothing to complain about.

The other day I saw his friends list on Tango (Facetime phone app) and well, let's just say the number and types of women I saw made me sick to my stomach. I'm not as much jealous as I am annoyed with myself that I allowed myself to struggle with wanting to believe the stupid shit he says like, "I hardly ever go out", "You're the sexiest woman I have ever met", "I think I'm in a really good place".

After this long winded story, when should I break things off with him? Wait for the next time he reaches out to me, or reach out to him and just cut it off at the head?


Tarnished's picture

Hey man, have you stopped taking comments on this post?

Anonymous's picture

A nice article.I will add can be that a FWB"s reason for hooking up is because she is divorced , no bf and just likes a relationship w/no commitment.You don't have to worry about anything if this is the case.And it's true that from time to time getting serious may cross her mind.But since she loves her freedom she may opt to just stay in this kind of relationship.This is what happened to me,we are turning 3 already in his set up.I don't date other men.He dates though infrequently and he tells me.We are comfortable in and out of bed.I have not met his children,but i know their story.He doesn't know my family also.It may be a typical FWB relationship but it's more than sex,its the company,its when you snuggle close to him or simply just telling stories and laughing.That's it.
I hope anyone who read this will understand me or the situation as it is.
Thank you

Anonymous's picture

So happy to find an appropriate place to post, but no wonder like reading some article like this, I was on Internet how naughty can you be with someone I proposed a f*** buddy I stared reading this and PLEASE put some clause at the end at least....

For chicks like me who want no relationship! Been there done that! I picked who I picked for a reason! Rules, stages, really? he plays by these rules! ! I want to have someone to have fun with and I got way lucky with someone who makes me want to be naughty! Be that booty call! I want nothing from him but yummy I do it all day everyday, fine when he leaves, no wonder he thinks I'm full of shit when I told him this! Is what I expected ! We EXIST! So make sure this gets posted might get some more!

My self esteem is well in tact, I just don't want a relationship!

Have a great day!

Anonymous's picture

Although this article is well written I disagree with most of it. I myself have been in a friends with benefits relationship for the past 12 years. During these years I have had relationships with other men and during those times I only see my FWB strickly as a friend as I have never been unfaithful. However, when he is in a relationship it hasn't stopped him seeing me. When we first met we had a discussion about what we both wanted and there has never been any issues. Over the years we have become very close friends and both support and love each other very much as friends/family. Funnily enough he put a good word in for me when I first met my current boyfriend as they are old friends (I didn't know this when I met my boyfriend). Not all FWB relationships are bad nor do they have a shelf life. I know without a doubt I will have my FWB as my friend for life!

Anonymous's picture

Female here, I think the FWB relationship would last much longer if it was discussed as such instead of pretending that it is a real relationship, and the guy is really "into" her. It comes across as deception to women, and that's why they bow out. You may not get laid right away, but boy would she bang you if you were actually ballsy enough to tell the truth.

Anonymous's picture

It's not always the woman's fault.I started dating with that guy and before sex he told he wanted a real relationship with me and after a few days he said: "you can f*ck with every guy you want and you don't have to tell me.The same for me.We have nothing".Generally, he was offensive to me and he was treating me like a slut.We went out together and he started flirting with my best friends.I told him the girls are not single and he answered:"i don't care.I m single".The sex with him was really bad most of the times.He was mean and was yelling to me "for your own benefit" as he said.My biggest mistake was i didn't stop meeting him from the first week.

Grace's picture

Hi chase
Nice atricle..
Presently i have a fwb relationship with a guy who has a long term committed girlfriend..i already told him what i really felt but he said he just like me but his already commited to someone..and i dnt know if i am going to stop this thing for my own sake or just expecting him to choose me..i tried not to talk to him or get close to him once and i know he noticed it..but still he showed me more care and dnt want me to flirt with someone or accept suitors..i really dont understand him..if i ask him he just said he likes me..still no commitments..
hope you can adviced me on this..


Jolynn's picture


I really really enjoyed reading this article! You have so much insight in fwb. I'm one of the girls that just wants to stay in the relaxed phase forever. I'd really love to pick your brain and talk. I have some questions and I might have some insight too ;)

currently freaked the fuck out's picture

holy shit. fuck my life. I have had a fwb who is really affectionate. like he'll always cuddle me and fall asleep with his head on my shoulder and we'll spend 4 days at a time together and we have been together for 4 months as fwbs and nothing has come out of it and now I'm just like OMFG HE THINKS I'M UGLY. But like, I don't know guys always hit on me when I go anywhere (literally not exaggerating when I say anywhere) there was a period of about 2 weeks recently when I couldn't leave the house without getting hit on. and now I'm like THEY MUST THINK I'M UGLY TOO, LOW HANGING FRUIT, AN EASY TARGET. but at the same time, a lot of people hitting on me would say things like "hey, I live down the block from you and I see you every day and just wanted to say that I think your beautiful" or I had a few say "you're the perfect woman, you have a perfect body and a beautiful face." But I know that's subjective so IDK. I'm fairly confident in how I look too. Like I don't think I'm unattractive and I know I have a nice body (hourglass shape, not much fat, I'd give myself an 8.5 to 9) but like I said my fwb could just not see me that way. omfg *cries* my fwb probably just thinks I'm ugly then because like I said he has been really really affectionate and he'll confide in me and give me a lot of attention and listen to my problems and comfort me when I cry but never make a move even though I clearly like him. I can't take this. I'll just have to ask him I think *cries* I mean ffs his roommates even get drunk and hit on me they probably talk about how easy of a conquest I am. well, I should probably just take some anxiety meds and chill tf out... you know what, it's probably just that he thinks I'm crazy.

Chloe 's picture

I Googled this topic because I realized that my fwb and I have been fwb for over 7 years. Reading through this I would say we are in the relaxed phase. I have had 2 mid term relationships during this time (2 years in length for each). Whenever I am single my friend seems to sense it and the text messages (just saying hello) begin. I have recently been told by 3 guy friends that I fall within the unicorn section of the hot to crazy matrix. I guess this is why I couldn't find a statement in this article that fit me or my fwb status. Just a quick commentary on the relationships. I found in both of my midterm ones that the guy expected there to be more drama and when there wasn't they didn't know how to deal. Funny how different a perspective I have then most. Guess that's why I am the wing woman for both guys and girls. I got my s**t together, I know how to have fun, I am loyal and supportive, and friends with my exes (& even thier current ladies). I will remain happily in my fwb status. I say just be straight from the start, let it be known if its just for fun, for fun with potential or that you hope for a relationship. At least then you know rather than after investing emotions. Best luck all! :^)

RD6's picture

Hello Chase

I just discovered this site and I feel like you can answer this for me.

My best friend married a wonderful woman and at the wedding I met her best friend. She was currently dating a man who was with her at the time and even with him present we really hit it off. Well, I didn't think much of it until my friend told me she was thinking of breaking up with him and that we looked like we had chemistry. He basically told me I should see if there was something there and since I agreed about the chemistry I bit.

We hung out a couple more times while they were still together as a group and after a subtle hint from her friend that I was interested she broke up with the guy (I am pretty sure the subtle hint did not cause this in any way, but thought it important you know that she knew about this).

We ended up hanging out as a group quite a bit after that at bars and restaurants and there was real chemistry between us. I found out later that she was freaking out because she thought they were trying to set us up and she said "I don't want to date him" & "I want to be single for awhile after being with the other guy for 2 and a half years".

Well on one of the nights that she had apparently said to them she was freaking out we ended up spending the night on our friends couch and made out/cuddled throughout the night.

Fast forward a bit. We spent time together alone, watching movies and making out at her place and she texts me one night that she doesn't want to mislead me because right now she is scared at the thought of getting into another relationship since she just broke up after a long one and she wants to keep hanging out but wanted me to know she wasn't ready for a relationship.

I was bummed but I shrugged it off. I said "I really like you but completely understand as I have been in the same situation before and get it." I told her I would keep inviting her to do stuff since she wanted to hang out still and that if it was too much I wouldn't be offended if she let me know.

Well, the next weekend we went out and ended up having sex at her place. I spent the night and the next morning we had breakfast out and went for a hike. We have now had sex for 3 weeks in a row and she invited me to an office party with people she works at. She introduced me as a friend and showed me a little bit of the affection I normally get but still it was something good in front of people she works with.

I am still hearing from my friend that she is afraid to do things that are too "couply" even though we do them together when they aren't around. I have heard good things also... She told her friend that the foreplay was amazing and that she has a lot of fun with me when we hang out together.

Basically my question is this. Am I just participating in a Friends with Benefits situation or are we building up to something here. I don't want to be naive. I mean she straight up told me, but I feel like we have moved so far ahead, and people only need so much time after they break up right? If I am patient and we keep moving forward can this thing work out into something more? I see so much potential in this woman and I feel like I will stick it out forever if I just know that I am not wasting my time.

Any opinion you have would help.

Thank you!

JDilla101 's picture

So i met this sweet chick about a month now.. I am 26 and shes 21. We actually met through Tinder app. We once talked in Tinder and we had nice conversations. Then one time she suddenly dissapeared and I never even bothered to ask her out. Well bout a month ago I got her again in Tinder and we began talking with each other. She even asked me if I remembered her since the last time we talked. Well then she even asked me that when am I going to ask her out on a date lol. I did ask her out because I wanted to. Our first date was great and was smooth and got to know each other well and we got lots in common.

After the date, I took her to train to go home, I kissed her first and she responded to that really well. Later same day in evening she started sending me all kinds of messages, how she would love to be with me right now in my bed and such... I invited her and she agreed and came. Well we were supposed to watch a movie but turned into an amazing night. Well its been kind of like this for a month now. She comes to me every few days or whenever i tell her to come.

Thing is, that this is not like a booty call. I mean she comes over we have some fun and good conversations and such. Then we get to sexing. Sex is really amazing with her and she said she likes it alot. Now, I want to have relationship with her. She even once started asking like 2 weeks ago or something that what do I think our relationship is? I told her assuming that we are having fun and she likes being around me and she said i was correct. She then asked me weather i am dating someone and said no i am not. I asked the same and she said no and kind of mentioned only she was seeing right. She also told me that she is not ready for serious relationships right now this moment. She has broken up 8 months ago from her 1st serious relationship. I been treating her really good and she even has said so that she likes how i treat her.

What do I do ? I want her to be my gf. I suspect that there is more to than FWB but shes denying it. i am not trying to pressure her or anything. One time she told me straight up like this thing of ours is going to end soon and i should prepare myself. I mean we have invested time and emotions and gotten to know each other more and more, why would she throw all that away just like that ? She knows that I want her because when we talked bout relationship i just told her i want 1 chance is all i need. Maybe i was wrong to do that. She did kind of get uncomfortable and didnt know what to say.

What does she think ? Doesnt she really want anything ? I am pretty good looking guy and good physique and she likes it as she said so.

Christmas 's picture

So I've been in this fwb for about 7 months now with a great guy I've known him for 8 year we work together . Have so many feelings and we've been through the serious talk he's not sure how serious he want to get and he is not playing me. Been honest about feelings sometimes too honest on my part.I get the feeling he feels the same as me but is scared. He's been single for about 6 years hurt hard from the break up they were suppose to get married and she cheated and broke it off they were together for 6 years. The sex is as he puts it we do it better than porn stars .we do it every day if not every other day he also buys me stuff ex. Earrings perfume . I said I want more friend part like hanging out doing things together got no response. Please help me understand the man brain

Taboo FWB's picture

I enjoyed reading through the 4 stages of the FWB relationship (if you can call it that) I like to see it as an "Agreement" personally. My situation is different that most anything I have read on here. Perhaps people don't like to talk about this as it is a little "taboo" but I'm going to stand for and behind a FWB situation that was not discussed. Partially for the hope of other men and women to feel comfortable stepping forward with their thoughts and situations and sharing.
I'm married, happily married... except I also have an FWB "agreement" He is also married, there are no secrets to our "agreement" We see each other when we can and for me, he fulfills a sexual need, desire and openness that I crave and well... frankly, my husband cannot seem to tap. This "agreement" has been going on for oh... 9-10 mos now and I would say as far as FWB stages we are still at the Relaxed stage. I have no desire for anything more than what we have, what we give and get. We are sexually compatible, equally beautiful in physique and sex appeal. As one woman above stated - honesty! It is what it is and it is NOTHING more than what it is. Maybe it will end, maybe it will continue... IDK and I don't overthink it. So there is my two cents and the other FWB "agreement" that IS floating around that no one talks about.

Linda's picture

Your situation is not a FWB it is an affair. The difference being FWB is short-term (<6 months) while an affair is long term. I sense there is no intent to end it any time soon. I started a FWB thinking it was in my best interest, which is how I ended up on this page, and am learning it's really just holding me back from being the person I want to be. We all make choices like that from time to time. However, don't kid yourself thinking you're happily married. Your husband isn't meeting your sexual or emotional needs and something tells me you wouldn't be able to tell your husband about your arrangement and be confident he would be okay with it. This situation puts a spotlight firmly on an opportunity to express your unmet needs and desires to your spouse or through a counselor. So far, this is new, fun and exciting, yet inevitably guilt will rear its ugly head and destroy you, your affair mate, or worse your spouses. I wish you all the best, hugs.

Taboo FWB's picture

Oh dear! I see, I have left out an important detail here. It is not an affair, because I have met his spouse. He (my FWB) has met mine. My husband knows when and where I am at all times. So, you see we have an Open marriage. But that does not negate this other form of FWB which was all I was trying to address.
I am curious about your FWB short term <6mos statement. Is there truly a time line? And if so, then I would concede that perhaps I am mistaken and this is no longer an FWB arrangement, but perhaps we have crossed the timeline threshold and are now "lovers"?
I love to get other peoples takes. So what does everyone think? Is there a "Timeline" to FWB?

Chopsi's picture

I understand a FWB friendship is entered into when two people agree to it, but what about the guys who woo a woman, sometimes for months, then over a few more months tell her they want a future with her and that he loves her, etc? She has told him up front she is looking for a real, long-term, mutual committed relationship. Once she starts sleeping with him, over the next six months begins to slowly change the rules until one day she asks him just what kind of relationship does he see it being and he replies, "A FWBs." This is a player, no? Guys, a FWB is a fantasy very few get to experience without messiness and the very drama you say you don't want, because you create it in the first place.

Teodora's picture

Writing from the perspective of a girl who felt mislead by mixed signals here. Please hear me out.

For the past.. 6 or so years of my life I was living and loving the single life. Circumstances in my past caused me to feel repulsed at the thought of being emotionally involved with another person. Instead I trained myself to sleep with guys without developing feelings for them and it worked perfectly. It was like a confidence build-up game, over time I raised my own standards and finding someone 'good enough' wouldn't do it anymore. I had to 'have' the ones I was really attracted to and add them to my personal 'achievement record'. Life was good, I felt self-confident and there was no emotional or feelings-related drama in my life. When my friends asked me 'Don't you want a boyfriend?' I'd say that I'm not missing anything in life and thus am not looking for a boyfriend. But I did add that if I one day meet someone, that I wouldn't feel repulsed by the thought of being in a relationship with I would perhaps reconsider.

And that happened exactly 6 months ago. We had known each other for nearly 10 years but communication was mostly virtual till that point. Then at one moment we started sleeping together and things escalated from there very quickly. We started meeting up very often, doing things together a lot, sharing a lot with each other, communicating a lot, etc. We had the talk early on that neither of us was looking for a relationship. Now you can say it's my own fault for not 'sticking to the agreement' but I don't think things are usually so black-white. I'd had enough experience with FWB to know what boundaries shouldn't be crossed in order to keep things casual and prevents feelings from developing.

In this case we crossed all the boundaries, early on. Things continued with a lot of passion from both sides (yes, I can say that). As the months went by I started developing feelings and he said that he did as well. He was doing a lot of things which I think most people in my position would have interpreted as signals for a romantic interest. Aside from the amazing sex AND us being exclusive; cuddling in and outside of bed, gentle kisses and caresses and general affectionate behaviour; he became friends with my best friends, he was hanging out with my family & at my house; he would give me heart-shaped chocolates when I was writing my graduation project to cheer me up; he would accompany me to the airport to meet my best friend; he would keep me company in my house when I was alone; he would keep coming to my house after work and go to work straight from here the next day or have me go over to his house sometimes for a couple of days after each other... we would have dinner at fancy restaurants, movies, spent Valentine's evening together; he actually started learning my language which has a while different alphabet!; he seemed genuinely very interested in me as a person and would often emphasise how much I intrigue him; we have a lot of common interests and passions and we even compiled a list of activities and 'adventures' we wanted to do together.

In the end when I couldn't take it anymore and confronted him straight on about what's going on. His stance was basically "I put so much effort for you and did all these things that I don't do for other people. What else do you want? I told you I don't want a relationship with you and I'm not changing my decision." I asked what about all the mixed signals and he said he didn't mean anything as a mixed signals. There was no deeper meaning behind his gestures, he was just being nice and wanted to make me happy.

My mind is boggled by how someone can take part of all of that and still not care enough for it to mean something more to them. He said it wasn't bad if feelings emerged and that we could 'explore' that.. what does that even mean? Is it my fault for letting myself see something more in his gestures and behaviour despite the agreement in the beginning that we were not going to have a relationship? Also am I right to feel it's unfair for him to put all the blame and responsibility on me for misinterpreting his actions and not take any of that responsibility himself?

Does it make it ok to go all the way with another person, act like you're a couple, even allow feelings to develop - as long as at the end of the day you say: "I told you I don't want a relationship with you"?

EVE's picture

Men are not like women. They can do all sorts of "relationship-like" things with you but never want to claim you as their "girlfriend". The reason for this is that they don't want to be held accountable. They don't want the responsibility and accountability that comes with being in an official committed relationship. ...but they DO want ALL the benefits that come with being in a relationship: Sex, intimacy, companionship, fun, friendship, regular sex, regular sex..etc...etc..

If this guy won't claim you as his official girlfriend, I hope you dumped him by now. He doesn't love you. He loves only himself.

Anonymous's picture

Wow, that just explained my whole last year with this girl. We were very on and off cause I was in school and only home during the summer, thanksgiving, Christmas break for a month and the occasional visit back home, or she would visit me. This explains why she got so weird after like 6 months of this. Thank you for pointing this out for next time.

Hanna's picture

A fwb is not a high value dude.
He is a side hoe.

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