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“Any good dreams last night?”
“How was your day today?”
“You’ll never believe what happened to me.”
There are normal little communication bits and pieces you’ll encounter in relationships. They seem pretty small and trivial, and superficially they are.
However, these little questions or statements – called ‘bids for connection’ by Professor Emeritus John M. Gottman, Ph.D. – have big impacts on relationship health.
That’s because any time you make a bid for connection, or a gal you’re with makes one toward you, it goes one of two ways:
- You or she accept the bid (Gottman calls this ‘turn towards’)
- Or you or she ignore the bid (Gottman calls this ‘turn away’)
How often these little bids are turned toward or away from makes a world of difference, it turns out.
Comments
Practice routine
Hey bro,
Thanks for all your advice bro.
No relationship yet. Still honing my approaches >.> Can't wait to apply relationship advice when it happens.
GC Really helped me up my efficiency as I go out doing more approaches and shrug off at responses (negative or positive) and keep doing what's needed to be done. I've been doing 3 approaches each day in weeks.
1. What number of approaches should we do each week/day?
Is there a plan you can lay out for number of approaches and when to increase it?
I don't want to get burnt out as you said in a post somewhere to do 3 each day so we don't get burnt out. But in some posts such as Natural vs. PUA, you say, progress varies for everyone, and so some who approaches 20 to 30 a day will definitely progress faster than 1 or 2. Which seems difficult to me in daygame. Night game, we all know what's the deal and can easily move to the next in a packed venue. Tons there, tons to approach. But daygame, all of them are scattered. We can't mass approach that easily since it's broad daylight and everyone can see and perhaps be affected before we even approach them. (Since I only do day game right now, because I don't like loud music and not much of an energetic person). Approaching 20 30 women on street, transit, or coffee shop seems a bit off in these small social environments. Correct me if I'm wrong and I'll just go with it and see. But I've encountered some scenarios such as the girl who I approached earlier sees me approaching another for example or moving to the next girl on the same subway in front of the current one I'm interacting who isn't interested. If I approach one girl walking down the street, and then she rejects me and I immediately approach the one behind her and repeat...Feels like something off. What do you think Chase?
2. Oh and how do we deal with group dynamics when a girl isn't alone?
I tried approaching before, either girls exchanged eye contact with each other, with no particular look, (Probably the girl I approached was seeing how her friend reacts, but her friend just looks at me and then looks at her phone). Or when there are guys surrounding her, should I engage the guys or just the girl? If I do engage the guys too, how do I make sure the girl knows I'm interested and not just being social?
3. Going out solely for cold approaching?
I've only approach when I was heading out anyways and come across a girl I like.
Should I go out solely for cold approaching
It is truly sweat and blood lol. Blood in the water kind too ;)
Your devoted reader,
Lawliet
Re: Practice routine
Lawliet-
Too many off-topic questions for me to get to in this comment thread, but I’ll address the ones you have in this comment. Some of your questions I may add to our topics list; you do ask a slew of great nuance questions! Might do the # of approaches one; I like that topic.
But, for now – # of approaches: depends on what you can handle, which is going to depend, among other things, on a.) how resilient you are / how much approaches that don’t pan out hit your ego; b.) what your success rate looks like (it’s a lot easier to approach lots of girls when you’re doing well with a fair number of them); and c.) what else you’ve got going on and what you have your ego spread among (if pickup’s the only thing you do, you may find it harder to do too many approaches, since you’re not getting your ego rebuilt anywhere else and the rejections hurt too much).
Group dynamics – check out these articles:
Going out just to cold approach: absolutely, yes! Unless you’re plugged into a social circle that introduces you to reams of new girls on a very regular basis, you need to go out with the express intent of cold approaching if you want to improve at a decent clip, unless you are super disciplined – most guys who go out to “hang out and maybe hit on some girls” don’t usually do too well with women unless they’re already talented with them.
Chase
Bids
I don't have high testosterone and I haven't experienced "the winner effect in a long time," but I find that I have done this quite a bit. Kind of weird. Last time it happened I ignored a girl through text and a few hours later she wrote "I see how it is..." and I never got to sleep with her again. I'm a beginner, so I don't know why I tend to do this. Maybe I behave coldly without even realizing it.
Behaving Coldly
Anon-
That's a possibility, yeah. There are other reasons men can be distracted / not clued into what women are saying, doing, or attempting.
Fortunately, this something you can train to be better in, so you can get yourself making appropriate responses on autopilot instead of inappropriate autopilot responses; it does take a little time and focus to do though before you can let go again and let what your now-preprogrammed responses take over.
Chase
Lover in LTR?
Hey Chase,
Thank you for answering my question about what relationship you are in from here: http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-many-attraction-factors-are-there-...
You mention "one-sided monogamy". Do you mean having 1 girlfriend, but also doing only ONS, as opposed to having multiple girlfriends that qualifies as casual relationships?
What role does your girlfriend view you in? As a devoted bf who has passed a commitment point (boyfriend role) or does she know that you maintain options and have only ONS (lover role, not casual but rather LTR)?
Spectacular how you would set the prerequisites or expectations that she's willing to comply to a OSM
Re: Lover in LTR?
Anon-
You can run one-sided monogamous relationships with multiple girlfriends, though you’ll usually need to structure it so all girls other than your primary are clear on their roles in the hierarchy. That is, girl #2 must know she is girl #2 and that girl #1 comes first.
Some women will simply not accept this role, and pretty much none will admit to it if asked, but many women in the right circumstances (and for the right guy who’s doing things with them right) will. The #2 spot is an extremely common one for women to occupy, but it’s almost not talked about ever in mainstream or even seduction literature.
As for whether to opt for telling flat-out versus implying, it’s usually better to keep it implied with your primary, while telling it flat-out to other girlfriends you maintain. Secondary, tertiary, etc. girlfriends need to know the pecking order so they aren’t pressuring you to devote as much time on them as your primary will need from you. Otherwise, you may need to quit your job to have enough time to manage them all ;) And you want the implication with the primary because telling her flat-out creates headaches, but trying to act like the Perfect Future Husband when you’re not either makes you seem a cowardly liar if she knows it’s a façade, or another boring monogamist if you’re too convincing an actor.
Chase
Yo dawg, Sick stuff again,
Yo dawg,
Sick stuff again, chase!
about being humble, aite saying something that shows respect, views em higher than us... for brahs and chicks.. sorta like putting em up pedestal, just ain't feelin aite...
A brah of mine said "Hey everyone who's 10X better than me at basketball, wassup!"
Felt pretty weird if ya know what I mean brah?
Respect dawg!
Calling you boss
Hey Anonymous,
I remember knowing someone who would call everyone his boss. "Hey boss" before he speaks. It was kinda funny and humble, but not sure if it is something we should start doing too?
To extend your scope, your story reminds me of an experience I had. This guy at an event was saying, "Oh, I'm pretty sure if I was to collapse right now and die, no one would care."
I was taken aback at what he said due to its cynical perspective and blunt statement, yet somewhat true to a lesser extent. However, these types of statements, what do they do to those listening to these? As well as "building them up" statements that show you see them as capable ("I'm sure you can do it" or "The next american idol!" to a girl who loves singing) as opposed to on a pedestal statements (exceptional treatment without reason)
Lawliet
Girls Pulling You?
Hey Chase,
Appreciate your response on the Social Aptitude article; your advice is as sound and helpful as always. It really says something of your character that you make such an effort to respond to your readers, and do so in a fashion that is clearly well thought out and empathetic. This site is a gold mine. I am very fortunate to have discovered it, and especially while I am still very young and have my life in front of me.
I had an interesting situation happen at a party to me a little while back. I had a girl pull me and on her own figure out logistics. I had been flirting with her and other girls and just enjoying the party, and wasn't in target selection mode or pull girl mode. I was at the center of attention (which I suspect has something to do with the hard work I've put into fundamentals and forcing myself to be more social) and wanted to relish the feeling because not too long ago I didn't think I could be the guy at the center. Anyway this girl was clearly attracted to me, and in the middle of the party started talking to me and then tried to extract me to her car outside. I thought this was hilarious; isn't that my job? What ended up happening was I left with her but took the lead and took her back to my nearby house instead (parents were gone). I thought I handled it well, taking leadership and all, but I doubt I could have screwed it up because she really wanted to have sex with me, since she herself tried to pull me. She ended up staying most of the night, which really opens my eyes to how much fun I will have once I get my own place in college and get even better with women.
Anyway I was thinking about the event and realized the site never really talks about girls pulling you, or setting up logistics on their own without any prompting from you. I'm in high school, so maybe this is why it doesn't match up with lay reports and general advice that you as the man have to be the one to escalate to sex. The girl in question is a pretty ambitious and fairly experienced girl (at least for our age) so maybe this explains her actions a bit. I had known her before and had been long term gaming her kinda like in Colt's article, except we live in the same town. So, my question is how often will women be the ones to pursue sex, despite the fact they need to manage their reputations and are supposed to be the object of desire, not treasure hunter? Will girls ever aggresively go after you, Chase (aside from prostitutes haha), since I can imagine you're as close to the uber seducer as it gets ? I know you kinda specialize in quiet excited girls, so maybe this is why I haven't read anything about girls escalating on their own, although I adore them too. Thought it was an interesting concept, maybe worthy of a bit of discussion.
For what it's worth, hope you are doing great and finding considerable success in all your ventures.
Thanks again!
Liam
Re: Girls Pulling You?
Liam-
It’s somewhat uncommon for women to handle the pulling and logistics, but you do see it more with younger women, both because they’re sometimes impatient to wait for the guy to take action (or are accustomed to shier men), and because they’re less socially experienced and don’t hold to the “coy and reserved” act as much that older women have down so pat.
You’ll see it more when you come across as attractive but chill and unaggressive. If a girl thinks you’ll handle things, she’ll kick back and let you handle them. If she doesn’t trust you to, she’ll take the lead.
You’ll also see it more often with girls who view you as out of their usual leagues, yet attainable. If you’re an attractive guy she doesn’t really think she can date, or wants to date long-term, she may take the lead to steer things toward sex if she decides she wants this from you.
Chase
Hiiii Chase! I'm a huge fan
Hiiii Chase!
I'm a huge fan of yours!! Gotta say, your articles make us women realize a lot of things too!
Question for ya cutie!
speaking of connections, in deep diving article, you say when men mirror us, we open up more. But doesn't that make the man weak who just nod to everything we say without saying what he really thinks or his true stand? I've met a few guys who would just voice exactly what they "think" I want to hear, reflecting back "I also do that too!".
And I had guys who would say the opposite things ALL the time!
I don't want a yes man, but I also don't want a no no no man. Sometimes telling me something I don't share intrigues me! Sooooooo....
I dunno cutie..., sorta confused haha !!
Your confused reader
Mirroring: Too Much vs. Not Enough
Confused-
So I hear!
If he’s mirroring you obviously enough that you’re picking up on it consciously, he’ll seem like he’s trying too hard (and you’ll be turned off).
A well-run conversation will lead to BOTH parties mirroring each other to a certain extent, both nonverbally (breathing rates, gesture/postures) and verbally (speaking patterns, opinions). If you’re talking to a conservative guy you really start to like and you’re liberal, you’ll note yourself becoming more open-minded to some of his conservative positions while he becomes more open-minded to your liberal ones (and then maybe you’ll ask yourself later what you were thinking when you agreed that thing he was saying might have a point!).
The mirroring I recommend guys to do (or you can do to guys! Works both ways) is a bit of a balancing act: you’re essentially finding things to vibe on that you can both agree on, but also finding things you can tease each other about and flirt on (these will often be your distance), while avoiding any REALLY divisive things, like one of you believes the abortion debate is about life vs. murder and the other one believes it’s about freedom vs. imposition, as well as the things you don’t share but bore one another (the girl starts going on about Marcus Mumford and Carey Mulligan or the guy starts going on about Eve Online… of course, there are ways to make anything engrossing, so always exceptions to the rule).
Too much mirroring – yeah, tryhard! And obviously fake.
Not enough, and it just feels like there’s a disconnect and the two people are on different wavelengths.
Balance in all things ;)
Chase
Hey Chase, your website and
Hey Chase, your website and information on it have been very useful to me. I do have a question though. I recently started seeing a girl about a month ago. She is very self-conscious and doesn't like to express her emotions. When she is angry, she would rather get quiet than say what is bothering her or she would rather seek to isolate herself. I find her to be very challenging due to her nonchalant behavior. She however does accept my bids of connections but really seeks to make one in return. She often tells me that she doesn't want to be hurt. How do you think I should approach this relationship or situation?
Sulking Girlfriend; "Don't Hurt Me"
Anon-
Quiet girls need you to pull the issue out of them. Otherwise, they sulk and build up a well of resentment, which sucks.
The way you draw things out of them is typically by telling them something like, “Okay, look, I know there’s an issue but I don’t know what it is, and until you tell me what it is you’re just going to sit and steam and we’ll both be miserable, so tell me what it is so we can resolve it.” And then she’ll say no, I’m fine, it’s nothing, don’t worry about it, and you might have to repeat and rephrase this a couple of times until she tells you. If she still refuses, then you can just say fine, I don’t want to deal with you sulking in the corner right now so I’m going to go play video games to let off some steam, and you can come tell me whenever you actually want to deal with this and you’re tired of sulking in the corner.
The main things you want to accomplish here are to 1.) state exactly what’s going on from the big picture view so she can see how silly and unproductive it is, as well as what you know and are feeling and what she knows and is feeling, and 2.) express some emotion so she feels like you are equally frustrated and want to resolve this, which makes her feel comfortable coming to you to tell you what the issue is since you’ve already shown you care (which is usually the cause of whatever it is – some form of her thinking you don’t care enough).
Re: girls telling you they don’t want to be hurt, I find the best thing to say here is, “I don’t want to hurt you either. I’ll try my best.” Optionally with a: “But I might need you to help me – I’m not always the most sensitive.” Seems to hit the right note of “I’m a forceful, mighty guy on a mission who isn’t always sensitive to women’s concerns, but I’ll try to be with yours if you’ll help me.” Much better than the cheesy sounding “I’ll never hurt you!” thing most guys say to this (and which no girl ever believes, yet every girl uses as leverage when the guy inevitably does something wrong: “You promised you’d never hurt me!”).
Chase
Good article! I've done this
Good article!
I've done this unconsciously for a long time without much realizing it, thinking about it or really reflecting on it much at all.
When focused on some project in working on, or in between sets in gym, or just a lot of time amongst people or in a fairly populated area in general, I will have this testosterone fueled glare in my eyes and will be intently focused thinking about something or other (trying to figure something out intensely) or will just be tested glaring into oblivion for a while.
And other people will come and try break me out of that a bit.
I've noticed I calibarate it unconsciously to the person and what I might think of them. In the gym often it'll be a guy I don't know pointing to some weight to make sure he's not stealing it from me and I'll just shake my head "no take it" and not really smile or give too much acknowledgment or warmth besides that.
If it's a guy friend of mine I will follow each of the steps of the article funnily enough. But if I can reassure or appease him and then return to my testosterone rage or thoughts or focus or whatever you call it, I will when the conversation. Naturally breaks as I let it and I go back to that state.
If it's a random person and they seem nice or are a woman or just seem to need more empathy I will be a bit warmer and address them briefly like above; if they are a guy and odd or less socially calibrated I will be more indifferent or colder and more like treatment of the random gym guy who might not be as warm or needing it/asking for it.
If it's a girlfriend, or girl I'm dating/sleeping with Ill follow the article outline roughly; and don't have trouble doing it because if it's a girl I am seeing regularly then she wouldn't be asking questions or framing me Ina situation where I would reject more than accept.
The ideal girlfriends here I have seen in past will ask what's on my mind/penny for my thoughts, or even better make an apt and amusingly accurate observation comment or guess as to my Tate or what I'm thinking about wondering about feeling , what's going on in my mind etc.
And successfully dive a bit into me and then cause me to open up more and then a little further more (making a nice connection because part of me really wants to do that, but sort of needs that type of girl to get it out of you in just that sort of way congruent to me and to then relate and fit what I say and feel with what she has to say and suggest in a very fitting ideal way).
These are some theories of mine on this topic at least chase; stimulating read!
Cheers,
Rage
Higher bids
Hi Chase,
Nice article! How about more sophisticated bids from the girl, like "Is there something you want to say to me?" or "Any thoughts about (this relationship issue)?" - do you do something more for these? I'd like to be able to answer these well...
M
Re: Higher bids
M-
When folks are trying to get you to figure out what’s on their minds in a passive-aggressive way, the easiest way to deal with that is just to tell them to tell you, in an active-aggressive one. e.g.,
or
Just call them out on this stuff. And learn to get annoyed by it. It’s designed to pressure you in a vague way and shift the onus on you to do all the work of figuring out a problem and solving it with both hands tied behind your back (i.e., no help from her whatsoever; it’s as if she’s saying “Here: fix this!”).
Once you understand what it is, you’ll realize it’s a really hostile way to communicate. If you comply, you essentially bend over for her, but if you just ignore it she’ll feel like you don’t care. The solution is to point out the poor behavior/communication on her part and instruct her to communicate with you civilly if she desires a dialogue with you.
Chase
Quick Question
Hey Chase! Awesome article and one that I've been kind of thinking about recently, so really appreciate the timing of it as well.
A quick question I had though, is if it's ever advantageous to ignore a bid from time to time?
A girl I'm seeing does this a lot, both through text and in person. Sometimes whenever it's in person I'll just ignore the verbal bid and just pull her in closer and that seems to do the trick when I just don't feel like answering.
Most of the time I try to answer bid requests regardless if it's a friendship or a romantic relationship.
But after reading the article I have to wonder if answering all bids ever lowers your value in anyway? Or if it would even be a good thing to ignore one out of every ten/twelve or something like that?
Thanks again for the article, awesome stuff as always!
Ignoring Bids
Anon-
Sure, sometimes it’s good to ignore bids. If you look at the study, the relationships that worked still had 14% of their bids ignored.
If you find yourself with a MUCH clingier girl who’s putting out way more bids than you’re able to answer to her satisfaction, you probably have a relationship that isn’t destined to work over the long haul (simply because she needs more attention than you’d care to give her). She probably needs a mate with higher conscientiousness, and you need one with lower conscientiousness.
If it’s just a little of the time you’re finding yourself ignoring her (like, say, maybe 15%?), then that’s fine and normal.
I find in my relationships I generally am the one doing most of the ignoring while my girlfriends respond to virtually all bids of mine. However, I make comparatively fewer bids. And I still accept the vast majority of bids thrown my way.
It seems to me, at least intuitively, that the person ignoring more bids ends up being the more powerful one. I’ve seen in multiple relationships that whichever person is more invested is generally answering more/all bids, while the less invested person answers fewer. Like all things though, keep an eye on balance; start ignoring too many in the interest of making yourself seem “less needy” and “more in-control” and you may just end up with a neglected girlfriend. So be smart about it; a little instead ignoring makes for a chasing girlfriend; of a lot of it makes for one who’s giving up.
Chase
Thanks man!
Makes sense, and I appreciate the feedback!
Really appreciate the website too, without you guys I shudder to think where I would still be....
All the best!
An article on how to properly
An article on how to properly use male shame and male pride (universal male attractive trait) to attract women?
What do you mean by male pride?
And Self deprivation is male shame?
Thanks..
Shame/Pride in Attraction
Anon-
I've got it noted down in the article queue!
As you're referring to the research referenced in this article: A Devil May Care Attitude: What It Is & How to Get It, I'll refer to the definitions given in the study that comes from, to make sure we're talking about the same thing the researchers are.
There, pride is defined as something that "signals the expresser’s high status; studies have shown that individuals displaying pride are automatically perceived as higher status than individuals showing a range of other emotions (including shame, happiness, and neutral), and this signaling function generalizes across cultures."
There, shame is defined as "an appeasement display [that] signals both the expresser’s low status and his or her awareness that he or she has violated a social norm; the adaptive benefit of this message may lie in its communication of the expresser’s regret and implied respect for social norms."
The reason pride's attractive should be self-evident; women like dominant, high-status men normally. Shame's the tougher one to figure out, though there are some clues. The researchers note that "on the one hand, it may seem odd that both pride and shame could increase attractiveness, on the other hand, if shame functioned only to signal failure, it would be maladaptive for the sender and thus unlikely to have evolved." They posit that "shame displays may communicate an individual’s commitment to his or her social group and its norms and beliefs, a message that could promote attractiveness in both genders."
Personally, since it seems shame is only considered attractive by younger women, I suspect there's another factor at play here: shame is signaling social savviness in younger men, which might imply future potential. e.g., the guys who aren't aware enough to experience social shame often go on to be less successful in life, at least from what I've noticed anecdotally. That'd just be my own speculation though.
Chase
Question
Great article, Chase. It's no wonder macho guys tend to blow off bids to connect. Your testosterone explanation is spot on. And pop culture reinforces this, when you see tough macho guys blow their women in movies.
I have a question for you regarding women playing the feminist card. I see it a lot with women I connect with on POF and tinder. They write in their profiles that they're feminists and if I'm not a feminist, to not bother contacting them.
I remember you writing somewhere that you say something along the lines of "a man should be a man and women should be a women and that things work out best if we take the roles we're supposed to take." With these women, is that the best approach? To let them know that the feminist thing is not for you, and that although you're not picking a fight, you're just stating what you think works?
Another issue is that most women don't really understand feminism. And they don't see it for what it is: angry man-hating women who try to attack men in every way. Actually, most men don't understand what it's really about either. It's not about equality.
Anyway, thanks for your insights as always!
Cheers,
Evan
Feminism in Profiles
Evan-
I wouldn’t even bring it up. Anglosphere women have a bizarre habit of filling their online dating profiles with a bunch of items that make them sound like terrible bridge trolls. It’s incredibly odd, but must be due to high competition for them in their markets.
Women outside the Anglosphere go out of their ways to paint themselves as attractive when writing profiles for online; native English-speaking women seem to view their profiles as a platforms for expressing their endorsement of the positions du jour, like feminism, veganism, stuff about animals or charities or global warming, etc. It’s an odd phenomenon and I don’t fully understand it.
Personally, I avoid people like this, who hold a bunch of carbon-copy views they mime from whatever TV station or website or university course they got them from (and that goes for both women and men I meet, via any social channel), simply because we don’t make for compatible conversation partners. I’m a natural devil’s advocate and an inveterate debater, which makes me the bane of these people’s existences whenever we cross paths.
However, if the goal is simply to cast the net as wide as possible, I’d say: just don’t even engage with them on these things. Typically you will find that women who call themselves feminists in online dating are some of the quickest to bed. Same with the ones who write “Not looking for another one-night stand!” Same with the ones who write things like “The #1 man in my life is Jesus.” All these are signs she’s trying to redefine herself, in a cognitive dissonance-filled way. Challenging them on their views, which they often don’t much understand (otherwise, they’d be able to discuss them rationally with you, and wouldn’t need to advertise them so aggressively), will only trigger defensiveness and offense.
As for what feminism’s about, it’s like any movement: made up by an assortment of different groups and people, all of whom define it in their own convenient way. Just as the civil rights movement had those who wanted peaceful equality with the majority, and others who wanted to burn the majority to the ground. No movement, if it grows large enough, is immune to zealots; unfortunately, in feminism’s case, the zealots have rather got control of the movement and grown their voices so amplified they’ve had an outsize (and negative) effect on the political, legal, and social landscape in the Western world. But these things all go in cycles.
Chase
It's amazing how well you
It's amazing how well you delineate things that seem muddled at first sight.
I like your approach because it means not even engaging with these the hardcore zealot-types. That's less work for me and WAY less stressful! Haha Sort of like Cluster B Personality type women, these types are best avoided when they are vehement about their views and won't shut up about them.
I find it interesting that the ones who say this on their dating profiles but aren't super zealots are actually very easy to bed. The cognitive dissonance thing makes sense. I'll definitely give these women a try. I've been avoiding them lately, actually, on dating apps/sites. If their profiles mention Jesus or not looking for a hook up, I'll assume deep down inside, they're the sexual women I want them to be.
Thanks man!
Evan
Yeah! My first night game!
Hey bro,
Super sorry for this collab post.
It's long. I really tried to separate the questions, but the ones below seemed to be pricking me as thorns on the side. I keep running into these problems, so I'm very sorry to lay it all out here. I can separate them if you so prefer. Just answer as many and as much as you feel like, no pressure bro. We're chill.
Anyway, here goes nothing...
I went to a club recently. Man you're right; many girls I saw Weren't as attractive as ones during the day. Anyway, approached girls.
Can hardly hear them talk and they can't hear me either. There goes sexy voice and welcome shouting brute. Conversations didn't go well at all. I also couldn't think of things to go on and deep diving while everyone's jumping seemed out of place (energy mismatch) So I decided, let's go nonverbal (sexy vibe). Stood there, leaned back and chilled. Everyone keeps jumping, nothing. No glances or any AI (that I noticed). Others weren't talking either. Just swinging to the beats or laying out on the couch or girls sitting at a table with the "why am I here" look while texting their phones. No AIs.
Now I know why most guys just act as energetic as the girls in their attempts. It's really tempting to do so. And it gets great responses compared to low energy.
I gave it a try, switched it. Got warm responses, and smiles. Hey but, that didn't go anywhere but reactions. As expected... But sexy calm energy didn't get their attention to begin with as opposed to a loud party animal lawliet...hmm maybe something with my energy. Or Something! Fundamentals? Gotta find out what
Couple questions (not specific day or night)
1. Deep diving while she's there with her friends swinging to the beat (ok energy) or leaping up and down (high energy) doesn't work for me. Maybe something I need to tweak?
2. If she's with friends, How do we isolate? Or do we juggle both? Totally new with group dynamics.
3. loud noises disrupting conversation
Normal Loud background noises.
Her: What did you say?
Do we shout at them? Repeat what we said? Sort of kills the sexy savvy vibe.
Clubbing related.
How the heck do we talk here? I'm amazed how you and many writers here managed to finger them or escalate or build connection / attraction by talking? It feels like a totally different game. Do we still deep dive + occasionally teasing to lighten things up? Or a totally different way?
4. Boring low energy vs. Sexy low energy
If I'm right, this is all about our voice tone, our eye contact flirting and nonverbals?
4b. I noticed all the high energy guys jumping up and down having fun gets glances from girls. Girls who then smile while watching them enjoy themselves. They aren't matching energy levels with girls but really there to have fun. Whereas me standing or chilling (and observing) doesn't get glances. Maybe I got the whole "sexy idea over fun" wrong?
5. Moving Conversation with purpose.
- Getting compliance in interactions. What to ask them to do?
It's great to know we need her to invest. But during the clubbings or even approaches, my mind goes blank. "Shoot first ask later" got it. Then I remember "Ge her to comply, build yes ladders" and then my mind comes to a stop at "How?". I just sat down, what can I ask her to do? And she's not wearing accessories. Hmm...
If there's a list of things or ideas of different compliances, That'll be great.
6. Getting their attention.
I'm been trying to wait others to look at me first before I look at them. But it seems that they only look at me when I look at them!
Either my peripheral vision is lacking (I can't see clearly if they're looking my way) or something's missing.
7. Eye Contact Flirting, Elite eye contact
Their Briefly glanced once
You say if we looked first, we be the first to break it, and contact again after 2 sec. But if they quickly look away (side, up, down, you name it) after we catch them or after we break first. Now what? Do we wait until they look at us again?
- how to work on peripheral vision? I can't seem to pick up other people's glances. But when I check by glancing over, they LOOK at me then! Darn it! Look at me first goddamit!
- "Let her drink from your glance instead of stealing glances" what does that mean?
- Let's say we do catch them looking. When she looks, you look, and she quickly looks away (You're not breaking eye contact) what now? Do we wait?
- You looked first, and she caught you. We look away, wait two seconds before looking at her again. By then she already looked else where. What now?
Oh and one more, if we walking past each other, we can't look away and then look another two seconds. By then, we already walked past each other. How to flirt eyes then?
How to get their gaze stuck on us longer than 2 seconds? I can't execute this stuff when they look away quickly. Grab their heads "LOOK AT ME! LOOOOK" ;)
And what are all the nonverbal flirting articles? I know eye contact flirting is one, and the 7 facial expressions one, any more? Time to turn up the flirty lawliet !
Your devoted reader,
Lawliet
That thing you Never write about
Hey Chase,
You've got hundreds of articles less or more discussing pretty much the same topic of "Just move your ass and do the thing, accept early failures and later get awesome results!" which you say could be applied for anything from learning languages to pick up, business or whatever you find useful in your own survival strategy in this game called life.
Those "Just do something!" articles are common trend here, and that's fine, I agree, if you don't ever approach a girl it's hard to imagine that girls will throw themselves at you on consistent basis (if they will do it at all!).
But with pick up there's another stuff - you fail in front of people, yeah this is discussed in articles too. But... Chase, you know your audience: to be honest quite a big part of your readers are never approaching at all, quite a big part of approachers are not consistent and use your stuff here and there and inconsistently. Only tiny percent of your readership gets to the game, sends all excuses to hell and throws themselves to the fire to become stronger and better, and keep themselves in game enough to attain results (which is mostly the guys who feel the need to prove something themselves, to the world, or both).
What's really missing is in your articles to cover - most men have rooted lifestyles, so whether they know it consciously or not they meet mostly the same people every day. We are aware that coworkers don't change daily, but other people - people who goes to the same shops, uses the same public services are pretty much the same people, and if you live in a 500,000-1,500,000 people city you think consciously that you always meet different people, but in most cases the people you see around are the same people you've seen two weeks or two days before and just don't care to remember them. I've experimented with it and seen that there are people I meet pretty much everyday or at least once in a week, because of daily schedule which is highly repetitive. I notice the effects of what they call this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem which in a nutshell means that running into the same items (people, numbers whatever) is more likely than it may seem. If you have 10000 people using public services at the same time, and then you see ~20 all the time around you, it doesn't mean that you run into the same person only 0.5% of the time, it's much higher percent actually and it grows with every day you expose yourself to the world until you expose yourself to the same and same people again and again without consciously knowing it.
So what...?
What it has on pick up? Most guys have rooted lifestyles and it's the rule that they will need to fail in front of the people who already have seen them to fail and do so more than once.
What annoying kinds of people may notice you approaching more than once?
A nagging old lady or angry psycho of some kind... she may call you out on this and shame publicly as a "player" or any other sort of "dumb creepy guy". For new guys this is the proof that they need to drop all the effort and settle for easier life so they stop and never try again out of fear to get into this situation at all (or again).
I guess large clump of guys never start the game because of emotionally feeling the high percentage of such shaming happening as a big danger to their identities of "good guys" they work so hard to preserve.
Just wanted to remind you that problem of exposing yourself to the same people, the same girls who rejected you or have seen you being rejected is high and is the thing which is necessary to get article on, because if you don't describe this problem for most guys it will seem that they are inherently flawed, when in fact there's internal survival mechanism preserving them to ever get onto field of approaching.
You mentioned you like switching cities after they get too familiar and have too much of the same crowd, but most guys won't bother to travel, and even switching times and locations of the same city and having varying schedule doesn't remove the risk of exposing yourself to the same people again... again... and again.
It's not an excuse to do less than 10 approaches (a year?!), but it still seems valid enough to prevent many wanna be seducers from ever trying.
People Recognizing You
Anon-
Not as good an excuse as you might think ;)
Anyway, thought this made for good article fodder - here's the write-up on it:
Will People Recognize You are Out to Pick Up Girls?
Chase
Laughing and groups
Hey Chase! Thanks so much for another great article.
How do I bring energy to groups without coming off as tryhard? I have trouble making jokes or being exciting because I feel it comes off as seeking to please and entertain, but coming off as lower energy really drains the energy of a group when it needs it. I've read your past articles on consciously raising your energy levels before joining a group, but I'm not exactly sure what to contribute to the group. Should I be focusing on developing personal bonds with others, or should I be telling entertaining stories about myself and having fun? There are often a few inside jokes in groups that are difficult for me to deal with, or lulls in conversation in which I know I should be saying something, but I can't think of anything to contribute to lead the group.
Another problem that's come up with me is that trying to be social, I've often encountered people who crack a lot of jokes that aren't too funny. I'm unsure how to react in these situations. I find it difficult to fake laughter or smiles. What should I do when I hear these types of jokes?
Also, how do you keep longer term relationships interesting? Even with just friends, once I've related and connected with someone a bit, I feel like we run out of things to talk about, and resort to small talk about how our day was. How do I get around this?
Thanks
Re: Laughing and groups
Hector-
Sounds like you’ll need to spend some time revving up your basic social skills. I’d focus on developing a sense of humor and some storytelling skills.
Also, take some time to study how people interact in groups and see what you can learn about how they all relate to each other – then begin to mimic that as you interact with other groups.
When people make a joke that falls flat, either look toward them but don't make eye contact and make a funny frown like this:
Or look at them and make a face like this:
... then turn back to the group. The idea is to tease them in a good-natured / playful way, without verbally throwing yourself in with them or extending the life of a lame joke. It's a nice way of defusing some tension for them and not making them feel like they've just totally ostracized themselves from the group, and they'll typically feel warmer to you later on for making them feel included despite the gaffe / lameness.
And if you're running out of things to talk about with friends, two suggestions:
Either one of these should do the trick just fine.
Chase
When we dive too deep
Hey Chase,
Since there were comments on deep diving, it got me thinking...
When we dive too deep into a topic (exhausting everything), I get the hunch we change topics. So do we change to lighter topics (small talk stuff) or another intimate topic?
Suppose we talk about relationships... and after that's done with, what should we transition to?
Yours,
Lawliet
Going for Greatness
Hey bro,
Just read your article about reversing bad precedents.
If we asked for compliance and she said no, and we hard pushed and she still said no, do we just drop her and move on. It does set a very bad precedent, or as you say a bad maintenance of the house from the beginning! If not, what should we do?
And speaking of precedents,
Every time we give a girl sexual awakening, or even get past her resistance, aren't we setting up precedents that give other guys easier time to get in on her?
(i.e. resistance past by you, she doesn't give it as strong to others; she has sex with you, her idea of sex changes and become less guarded toward sex in general)
Now, let's go for greatness. Sure, as beginner or intermediate, it's better to just do it. But as a pro...no... as an elite seducer like you,
Is there a way to side-step her resistance, or sexual awakening (still give her a good time), simply put, side stepping her walls, and still move forward without punching holes in her walls that set precedence and giving others an easier time?
Needless to say, this helps relationships, and lowers infidelity. (I'm sounding freaking manipulative right now, but we are all here to excel, hope no one judges!).
It also helps the girl too, rids all the STD and baggage she might come across from lower guard just because we aced it with her...We don't want to hurt girls indirectly like that either!
Let me know what you think, bro!
Lawliet
Diving Too Deep
Lawliet-
Check this bad boy out:
Spell Broken: Big Mistakes That Shred Conversation
Chase
College Experience Ruined?
Hello Chase,
I'm that awkward, nonsocial, alone guy in high school. Graduated, then went to college (big/party school) to start my seduction career by approaching massive amounts of women there. Even though I was awkwardly aggressive, my experience with social skills evolved thanks to action and thanks to this site :)
However, due to all of the few failed escalations (none were forced, only persevered 3 times) in my dorm room (only logistics besides her dorm room), other dorm mates included (co-ed), I was labeled a creep and I felt that my dorm mates were cold/afraid whenever I came into the frame. After one more failed escalation, I got booted out of the university by the police and was sentenced to a 2 year suspension (they said I got extremely lucky). Now, through the shame of friends and family, I study at a community college to get credits upon my return to that university.
One month has passed since then, never had I felt such regret, guilt and shock a few weeks prior. I know it's all my fault, they have probably forgotten my existence by now, but scars are made, perhaps needing more time to heal. Also as of late, I feel afraid of approaching women, seeing authorities, and acting dominant. I don't know if I can continue my seduction career in college, mistakes seems dangerous, and back at home logistics are poor due to living with family.
I just feel so lost, but I am willing learn to become the best.
Re: College Experience Ruined?
Daveon-
I don't know the circumstances surrounding your incident, but I will say you're going to university right in the middle of a rape hysteria witch hunt the likes of which the English-speaking world has not seen before to my knowledge, and from the sounds of it you managed to get a big fat target painted on your back.
The creepiness label is often used by others in school out of fear as much as it is any genuine feeling of threat; much like informing during the Salem Witch Hunt or the Red Scare in the U.S., or informing in Stalinist Russia or Maoist China, if you can turn in your neighbor, that positions you as a Good Citizen and takes some of the attention off of you.
I'd suggest reading this article if you haven't already:
How to Avoid and Deal with False Rape Accusations
And I would strongly suggest learning a monetizable skill you won't be degree-dependent to use, like computer programming (see: Code Academy) or copywriting. Or something fun like bartending.
You might be better off pursuing an education outside the English-speaking world, where there is not this hush of hysteria and informing that the West has right now. There are loads of wonderful degree programs in Asia and Scandinavia where you can speak English and get a top-notch education without the garbage.
Chase
Hey dude, awesome site! Just
Hey dude, awesome site! Just that it's GirlsChase, and I looked around, wondering how exactly to get a girl chasing. Like how it looks like in a whole picture for you from you meeting a girl whose indifferent at first, to getting her to chase you and then keep building that attraction until it peaks.
If there's articles on the each stage of the whole process, that's awesome dude.
Also, long term interest, how to build and cultivate it ?
Thanks dude!
Girls Chasing,
Anon-
A little confusing, eh?
For a few specific pieces on women chasing in particular, check these out:
Much of the way you get women chasing though is through improving your fundamentals, escalating investment, and maintaining attainability throughout the course of an interaction. You can check out a rough guide on the process, meet-to-close, here:
How to Approach a Girl Wherever You Are (Easily)
Also on chasing, check out Section 2, Chapter 5 (Making Girls Chase) of my ebook if you want to get down to the nuts and bolts of setting up chasing at the various stages of the interaction:
How to Make Girls Chase
Long-term interest - check these out!:
Chase
One more thing dude, how do
One more thing dude,
how do we build her attraction for us stronger and stronger by letting her know we are interested first so none of that friendzone stuff without giving it all away? Cuz not sure what to do now, she's not chasing, and who knows dude, we might be on wrong pages and end up going out only for her to have me friendzoned... thought of flirting to set it straight but no idea how to do that without being complimenting outright. Just know there's a better way than just complimenting her straightout when flirting ugh!
Attraction
Anon-
These are the articles you probably want:
May also want to check this one out:
Chase
Yo chase, thanks for the
Yo chase, thanks for the connection article. Have you ever heard of negative rapport? It has been floating in community. The idea of building rapport with a girl by complaining about something you two are going through. Includes, you and girl at a long line up? Talk about how long it is (as opener). Had a tough test in a class with a cute girl? say how hard the test was; at a bar and girl looks pissed off? Complain how bad the place is or how life is terrible to get her talking. Instinct tells me about complaining is for the worse. What's your take?
Complaining as an Opener
Anon-
Hadn’t heard that term, but it sounds like a new name for an old technique. We used to call it ‘pacing her reality’, in that if a girl was feeling one way and you came in in a totally different way, there’d be a disconnect and she wouldn’t want to interact with you any longer. So you go in mirroring her emotional state, then move in another direction and take her with you.
This is most effective when a girl is really upset about something. You take her side and act equally outraged, then get her away from the problem and you both calm down together.
Complaining as an opener CAN work, but it’s got to be amusing. You can’t just bitch about it. Imagine Groucho Marx going “Man, what a test! I think that one just echoed back in time and made me flunk last semester too!” Not quite that exaggerated, but close.
If it’s just whining, you’re right… epic fail. She’ll just view you as a Negative Nancy and want to get away.
Chase
Being nonjudgmental
Hey chase, awesome article! Just thinking of the hype with being nonjudgmental on here and how to apply it in our connections and conversations. how do we avoid wording verbally in a judgmental way? Could be an accident or unintentional. What should we look out for when we converse to avoid giving off a judgmental vibe but instead a nonjudgmental vibe?What about labels such as "inexperienced" or "experienced" with girls? and being nonjudgmental as possible when talking about sex with girls! Awesome stuff!
Hey chase, another quick
Hey chase,
another quick question, Bad frames...
What are some bad frames we should avoid?
I've had a girl imply I'm bad influence, confused if that's good or bad or if we should say we are bad influence for her, hinting bad boy haha
Feedback
Howdy Mr. Amante, hope all is well with you just like your articles. Do we ask women directly for feedback and if we do, how will it affect us? May I get your feedback, sir?
Examples:
1. she initiates feedback.
-Your flirting is weird. "How is my flirting weird?" Then, "How do others
usually flirt with you? for advice.
-You're acting very needy and insecure right now
"how so?"
-My god, that walk is sexy!
"Why's that?"
2. When she accuses you of something you didn't do
-You need to stop hitting on me and not ask strangers for their numbers. That's just weird
"I never did hit on you, what makes you think that?
This one was pretty ridiculous. She gave me her number without hesitation and texted herself immediately. All done with a warm smile on her face.
- Are you flirting with me?
"Yeah, what do you think?"
-You always promised me a chocolate bar but never gave me one
"Now when did I ever say that?"
2.We initiate for feedback or advice
- "What do you think of me?"
-"How was my [hairstyle/look/walk/smile/witty/conversation]?"
And What do you think needs adjusting for [hairstyle/look/conversation skills]?
-:What do you like most of me?" / What do you dislike most?
- How can I improve?
- Why were you more excited that night out? Or What did I do that made you more chatty tonight?
Warmest regards sir,
JM
Re: Feedback
JM-
Don’t ask women for feedback; you’ll get stuff that will point you in the wrong direction. See this article: Dating Advice for Men: Why NOT to Get It from Women.
If you’re honestly not sure what you’re doing wrong, a.) get a wingman and ask him to help analyze what you’re doing, b.) write field reports and post them to the Field Reports Board for feedback and analysis, and c.) sit down yourself and look for consistent patterns: what similar reactions are you seeing and what are you doing to precipitate them?
If you ask women for advice, you’ll get harmful and misleading tidbits, like you came in speaking too quickly and spent too much time qualifying yourself, but she isn’t conscious of this so she just tells you “Girls don’t like guys hitting on them in the street” or “You’re too short” or “Sorry, I’m not into guys your age” or something like this. It’s like trying out for a new sport, sucking, and then someone who doesn’t know anything about the sport telling you you just suck or aren’t athletic enough or what have you and shouldn’t play, instead of someone who knows what’s going on giving you specific feedback on your form you need to actually do better.
Chase
Moth and Flame
Hey Chase,
I read your Moth & Flame analogy and tell flames to verbalize their warning to moths. Was wondering how do you verbalize your warning? And in the process of seduction, when is the best time to do this?
Thanks!
Efficiency
Hey Chase,
I was reading up on your article, "Time efficiency done right"
THIS is what I NEED. Reading about your efficiency in seduction, and social has gotten hyped up. I seriously want to get that efficiency. Really REALLY.. want it.
When you talked about having seductions with girls that happen in minutes, not in hours and making quality contacts (friends) in every outing, I'm flabbergasted.
How easy it is for you to chat a few minutes with a quality interesting contact / or potential lover, then exchange contact details and meet up with them for lunch after a few days and become good friends / or lovers, that is exactly what I need!
Seduction aside...
I find myself going to a number of social events a week! A lot more! Putting a lot of effort in social outings, but not ending up with anything at the end of the day.
Sure, I get a couple Hi and bye, or even a number if I ask them, but it never goes anywhere.
I beat myself over this, analyzed my logs but STILL can't figure out WHY I'm not making the contacts efficiently in comparison to how much TIME I'm spending and EFFORT (Just jump into bed after an outing and fall right asleep).
Please tell me how to work it as efficient as you do. What's your secret?
Because right now, I feel that motivation and action alone isn't efficient at all! (mainly talking about social here, seduction I'm still tweaking my fundamentals and practicing more so we'll see).
After going out and being as social as possible, as productive as possible (setting 100 hour goals) as seductive as possible, (Thanks to you guys for encouraging me to improve myself), I am very concerned to go out there and then spend a strenuous effort and time only to get little results. I beg you, please show me the right direction that is most efficient, may it be painful or a ton of work, that's fine!
I just want to improve efficiently in social, seduction, and work; I want results!
I'm almost on the verge of tears right now, because working hard to get contacts only to have it not lead anywhere from time to time and having quality people tell you just add me on fb that doesn't go anywhere and trying so hard to meet people in class hoping to create a social circle hangout weekly whom vanishes after the semester, I am ultimately disheartened. That post of yours is like a beacon of light shining in my very depths. Please help!
Lawliet
Just saw your message
Just saw your message about forums. Just joined.
Hope you don't mind but I'll post all general questions and reports (long posts) there.
But I'll still post some personal (one or two, I'll try to keep it easy! and not too much effort! Making law of least effort for ya Ha!) and also responses to your previous comments here since people won't know what my post is talking about when it's out of context.
Such as this one in response to your comment:
Re: To your response of Setting expectations explicitly is for pros
http://www.girlschase.com/content/3-ways-train-social-aptitude#comment-6...
I actually followed what I thought Ricardus was saying here:
http://www.girlschase.com/content/dont-hurt-girl-importance-expectations
Sent her something on the lines of:
[em]...clear that you enjoy being single at the moment, and that you think getting into relationships too quickly is a bad idea.[/em]
[em]...If she asks why, you might tell her that two people should get to know each other for a while before they commit… and that long term relationships usually fail because people don’t take the time to do that.[/em]
And some things in your "How to know a girl is crazy in love with you"
- I'm an evil man
- I won't always stick around next to your side when you need me
- I'm always busy (which is true. Trying to get social and involved in college)
I'm essentially trying to go for lovers, but not committed. I guess one sided monogamy like you? haha. So not explicit such as "I'm going to date multiple women" but "I'm more of a free kind of guy not ready for a relationship right now"
Your devoted reader,
Lawliet
"Secret"
Thanks Chase! Appreciate the help~
http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-convert-one-time-sex-regular-sex#c...
So what do I do if she says "Secret" or "Guess" and it's flirting???
How to properly respond to flirting???!
Damn...
misunderstanding
yo chase, love the articles!
Want to get your advice. I screwed up with a girl. We both like each other.
I was determined to hard push for a compliance over text because I worried about bad prcedent, and she misunderstood one of my texts as an ultimatum. I guess she interpreted it as "If you like me, why aren't you doing this? You have my number" when I intended it as a discussion of wants. She then says fine and breaks off texting. I sent her a "Are you sure text" you had in your example in Respect in relationship. She blames me for it, putting her in ultimatum over a simple compliance too and so be it she says.
I sent a "It was more of a let's communicate text than ultimatum. Awww come here you [playful callback name] Are you interested in sticking around and hear me out [callback name]" But after 6 days due to my busy schedule.
My thoughts are, using warm callback as suggested in your auto rejection, getting buy in by asking are you interested instead of imposing on her and chasing. No response for now.
I know we shouldn't chase, and I know we shouldn't be texting like this. But it's really sad to see her go into auto rejection when both of us like each other. Any advice on turning this girl around? it's sad for her to miss out a wonderful time when we both clearly interested. So what's the battle plan? I'll send her your regards ;) thanks chase!
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