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The other day a reader commented the following on the article about respect in a relationship:
“What I’ve realized is my problem has never been being a closer. Once in a position to close I close. I escalate. Period. It’s fun, it’s sexy, it’s adrenaline inducing! But until a woman starts showing signs of submitting to me or hinting that she likes me, I feel afraid. I feel like I might lose her if I do something stupid to make her upset. I feel like I can't communicate any of this fear to the woman because she will lose attraction for me. And so, it's a catch 22 because I know if I don't make a confident move, she won't do it first, and her attraction will eventually fade, yet if I make a move and she doesn't go for it (rejects me) I immediately will feel as if I like her more than she likes me. And I HATE with a PASSION for a woman to find out that I liked her more than she likes me. My logical mind says I shouldn't care and that I should just laugh it off and say "whatever", but my emotional mind doesn't agree yet.
...
Have you ever closed girls that showed no visual signs at all of liking to be in your presence? What was your mindset in dealing with them? How'd you handle these girls? Was there any difference (whether subtle or more substantial) than girls who showed more signs of wanting to be seduced? How'd you change their minds if they were on the fence by persisting? And did you notice after the fact that initially aloof girls were glad you persisted and showed your emotions first?”
When you want to be liked... that's a curious thing.
In some ways, wanting to be liked is good and necessary to life as a human being:
- It stops you from being a social retard
- It prevents you from creating lots of enemies
- It makes you a more appealing person people will do more to help
But, unchecked, a need to be liked can often be a very destructive thing.
Unchecked, it leads to hesitation, over-deliberation, and, very often, inaction.
It's not even about making your self-esteem dependent on other people or suffering from far too much anxiety. Those are what most advice dispensers hoist up as the reasons to not care too much about being liked... but they're mere child's play compared to the real reasons this mess you up.
Because if you spent too much time trying to be well-liked, you will miss out on the all best things life has to offer you.
Comments
Quick ways to build deep connection for pick ups?
Hey Chase, how can I get better with my connection during pick up with girls? Im pretty cut throat and get down to tbe nitty gritty. I remember you saying you got a better response rate from girls who you had shorter conversations with. I have convos sometimes and sometimes I pretty much get the number and I'm out.
Chase, how can I build a deep emotional connection with a girl without wasting time and mmaking them want to see me next time easier?
Quick Phone Number Swaps
Wolf-
See these articles on connection building:
If you're going purely for a fast number swap (e.g., 1 or 2 minutes) - that's basically just the "two minute number close" discussed in the article on getting girls' phone numbers - then you won't be connecting, and will be relying purely on strong enough fundamentals that you make a powerful, sexy, and memorable first impression on approach, and then employ good follow-up game - a good "nice to meet you" text, and a solid phone call later establishing some rapport and building connection then.
Chase
Moving women as a screening tool
Hey Chase in other articles you talk about moving women as part of process and as a way to screen out women who are not interested in you.Ive had it happen to me lately where I'll get a girls phone number and move her soon after meeting her,only to set up a date with her a couple days later and find out that she has a boyfriend and not available to meet ,or just plain not as interested as she seemed.Any thoughts? How often do girls that you have moved get together with you?as a screening tool,it doesn't seem like its worked for me,or maybe I'm doing something else wrong.
Also lately it seems like I've gotten almost zero flirting signals from girls( hair tossing/playing with,eye contact).ive improved my attractiveness quite a bit and have improved my fundamentals and I would think that would mean I would be getting more signals then before from girls,but as you point out in this article I guess it's possible that more girls are into me then before its just there playing down there interest a lot.im still training myself to look for results instead of reactions,this used to confuse the hell out of me but now makes more sense.Is there a straightforward way to quickly screen out and screen in women without having to follow process almost from start to finish?
Screening Women Who Will Follow Up
Anon-
It sounds like you haven't reached the point yet where you're able to read women's nonverbal signals about how interested in you you are, so you're ending up taking phone numbers from girls you're expecting to meet up with but who aren't meeting up with you.
One suggestion I'd make is that after every interaction, you make a brief prediction about whether you will actually a.) hear back from a girl, and b.) get her out on a date with you, based on how you felt things went. Over time, this will train you to be able to more accurately gauge whether women will come out to see you again later based on small signals they're giving you that you may not even be aware of consciously (e.g., whether she's clenching her jaw, focused firmly on looking into your eyes or repeatedly breaking eye contact and darting her eyes elsewhere [looking for an escape path], whether her body language is open to you or not, and if so, how open, whether her smile is genuine or not [crinkles in the corners of her eyes; seems like she's trying not to smile so hard but can't help it], etc.).
How well things work as screening tools depends on how you use them and how solid your fundamentals are in general. e.g., you could walk up to a girl and very powerfully command her to move and she'd do it, only to be so startled by this that she'd never agree to come meet you again (as an extreme example). Generally, having women move with you is a good indicator, but not always. Sometimes her moving with you is just an indicator that she will do things with you RIGHT NOW - like, if you run things properly, maybe you can take her home and sleep with her NOW, but if you take her phone number you will never hear from her again (this happens plenty).
There is a certain learned ability to read her signals and interpret what these probably mean - for instance, if she is reserved with you as you ask her to move, but still does it, there's a very good chance she'll never reply if you text her. In that case, your best bet is to just see if you can keep moving her - next on an instant date, then back to your place - and see if she'll continue to follow. If so, sometimes you can make things happen despite her initial reservations.
Chase
Why do girls like to suppress
Why do girls like to suppress their interest anyhow?
Its so annoying when this happens to me. I just don't ever bother with a girl like that and move on. What's a great line to call their bluff? I like to cut straight to the point.
Suppressing Interest
J.B.-
Reputation is extremely important for women - all kinds of things that wouldn't affect a man's ability to date or make friends in the slightest can have major consequences for women. They don't LIKE to suppress their interest, trust me... it's frequently very FRUSTRATING for them, because men they like but who aren't good at reading their signals assume they aren't interested and move off to more flirtatious girls, leaving these women pulling their hair out trying to figure out if the guy didn't like THEM, or just couldn't tell they liked HIM and was clueless to their signs.
They don't do it because they like to. They do it because they're afraid that if they're more obvious, they will lose face socially, get rejected and look bad (it's far worse socially for a woman to be rejected than it is for a man... looks a lot worse for her), or come across as showing too much interest and cause the guy they like to view them as slutty, easy, or not as high status / high value as he thought they were.
Calling her bluff makes you seem like you "don't get it," unless you are very sexy when you do it... but if you're that good, you don't need to call her bluff. You also risk embarrassing her and driving her off in shame - I wouldn't do this one. If you know she likes you and she isn't showing it, just run the interaction as if you know she likes you and it's a secret between the two of you.
You can also use chase frames; these can help a lot in ambiguous situations.
Chase
So Chase, are you basically
So Chase, are you basically saying that every girl that is sexually/romantically interested in you will not be at least a little turned off if you try to take her to bed after you just met her ?
Come on Chase, sure I agree with you that taking social risks is important but not to the point where you're scaring girls away by your single minded aggressiveness. Not all women want to be taken to bed right away, it all depends on the person's beliefs and comfort zones. She can be totally into you but trying mindlessly take her to bed can be a big turn off for many girls. Correct me if I am wrong, cause I have seen this happen plenty of times with cold approach.
Moving Too Fast?
Anon-
If you're in the boyfriend zone, then yes - it's a turn off if you move too fast. Move fast, and she gets disgusted, because she doesn't LIKE you like that, and besides, how good a boyfriend can you be if you behave THIS way?
If you're in consideration as a lover but NOT a boyfriend, it's "move as fast as you can while keeping things completely comfortable." In fact, if you've kept yourself from being considered a boyfriend and she sees you as a sexy bad boy lover-type and you TRY to move slow, she will get disgusted with you and cut contact with you... because she doesn't see you in the boyfriend role, and isn't interested in investing the kind of time and effort in you that she would a boyfriend candidate.
It all depends on how you've presented yourself to her. Grade A boyfriend material? You've got to move at a moderate pace; no other choice. Too fast and you're disgusting; too slow and she loses interest. Grade A lover material? Move fast once you've opened that window (connected with her / progressed things forward a bit with her), or she'll soon write you off as a guy who wants more from her than she wants to give him.
Chase
A Crave to Learn
Chase
I am very curious about the dating advice mainstream people wants you to buy strangely gets you hooked in such a strange way that is hard to stop watching. Like Vin DiCarlo Pandora's Box or Goldfish or Derek Rake all have a single video to see and explains stuff in such a addicted way that gets you to crave it more and making it so their product actually works and is better than all the rest. Mind if you please decipher it so I can learn what is exactly going on and...if possible, used in conversation? Thanks!
Sales Videos
Add-
I think you mean these products' sales videos, right?
Sales videos are designed to excite you about the product and make you want to buy. They use a combination of elements to hit as many of your "triggers" as possible:
They relate to you right away ("You're probably like this" "You're like that, aren't you?") to get you shaking your head and going, "Yes I am," and put you into a receptive state for the rest of the message (see the article on cold reading for more on this)
Then they tell you a rags-to-riches story ("I was just like you, then..."), which makes you relate to the narrator even more ("I'm just like him when he was in rags... and he probably can tell me EXACTLY how to get to 'riches'!")
They often include a "secret sensei" ("I learned from the secret master...") - this is more credible than the guy claiming that HE is the secret master (because, c'mon, secret masters don't sell info products! They're too cool to do that!), but still gives him credibility ("Whoa... he has access to the teachings of a secret master?! I want that too!")
They use other credibility-building techniques, like "Endorsed by scientists" or "People from X Big Media company all endorsed this" or "As seen on X TV show" to link the product with familiar brands and trusted figures in society so that it feels more familiar to you and less like something you've never heard of or seen before; testimonials help build the case that this product is tried, tested, and gets results (see social proof and preselection for use in dating)
They promise you all the benefits you'll get from the product ("Here's all the cool stuff that will happen in your life once you start using this"), which gets you imagining successful future you and makes you want the product even more (and makes whatever price you'll pay to get it seem trivial compared to the promised future results) - there are seduction equivalents to this, too (chase framing and sexual framing reassure her that going along with you will lead to satisfying sexual experiences)
They remove resistance by offering a trial / refund period ("There's NO RISK to you, because if this doesn't work out, you can return it ANY TIME"), which removes most of your reservations (this is generally set by your demeanor in the seduction; a laid back demeanor, where you communicate discretion, and don't pressure her too much, leaves her feeling like she has an "out" at any time, and makes it easier for her to relax and just go along with things)
They use scarcity to increase buying urgency ("This will only be available for a limited time... and then it will be GONE") to avoid you saying, "Well, let me think about it, and maybe later I'll buy it" - most customers who say that never come back to buy; it's buy right now, or never buy
They use "yes ladders" (which I have an article coming up soon on) to get you into the habit of saying "yes," right up to the point of buying (Encyclopedia Brittanica used to have a yes ladder its door-to-door salesmen would follow that encompassed some 46 or 47 questions and would take a prospect from agreeing to take a set of free encyclopedias to show off to his neighbors to him paying full price for the set at the end of the ladder - it was a very well-done sales process)
There are other things in there too, but this is the gist of it. They also commonly use crisp / colorful language and visuals to tickle your senses and make you want to stick around.
These are all common sales presentation elements - you'll see most of them on any sales video, page, or presentation you see - from the programs on this site to those on Amazon.com (how many times do you go to Amazon and see "Hurry - on 2 left in stock!" I'm convinced Amazon only keeps 2 of anything in stock at any one time).
Sales is lots of fun to study and use - it's applicable in damn near everything you do that remotely involves people.
Chase
Hey Chase
Yeah, I'm glad I don't got that problem anymore. I cant stand it when a girl wants to talk my head off on the phone, but then claim she's busy for the next two weeks, even girls I've sleep with in the past. The first and last thing I want to know is what day she's free this week. I mean if she's not talking about nothing I will get off the phone quick. Go talk some other guys head off, I'm a busy dude. I've got a few female friends I might shoot the breeze with now and then, but not many. A female friend of mine has to be really cool, and possess that special ability not to get on my nerves, as I am a really irritable dude. I mean chicks I do sleep with get on my fuckin nerves so you can imagine lol.
Got a question: I know you travel a lot so do you ever find a certain area to be tapped out? I starting to feel like I've done all I can do in the Silver Spring, MD area, and if not do you have any advice for someone who is mostly stuck in the lame ass suburbs?
Tapped Out
Brian-
Absolutely. There are plenty of places that just aren't good for women.
Silver Spring... I didn't even realize there were women to meet there! I had a girlfriend who lived there a while back and I used to spend a fair chunk of time there, and it always struck me as a quiet, sleepy little suburb of D.C.
I'd recommend hopping on the red line and taking the metro into D.C. There are a lot more women to meet in Dupont Circle, Adams Morgan, Georgetown, U Street, and whatever other areas are popular in D.C. these days than there are in Silver Spring. You can always meet her in D.C. and have her take the metro up to Silver Spring for your date, if you're good with setting these up your way - or if you're going to take her home right after you meet her, it can be worth cabbing it back for that.
You could always change locales, too. Somewhere else in the States you haven't explored but want to; or somewhere else in the world, even. You're only just scratching the surface in Silver Spring.
Chase
Thanks Chase
Thanks Chase
2 Questions
Theres this girl who i barely talk to who has shown me signs that she likes me but i became so nervous to act on them because shes always surrounded by her friends that i dont even know. So then for about 3 weeks i didnt see her again probably because she was mad i didnt approach her. After that i saw her again and she looked at me flirtariously again. As usual i freaked out again and shes gone again. I would approach her if she didnt have friends around her. Chase I have 2 questions. 1. Could a girl that lost attraction for a guy gain attraction for him again? Or as soon as attraction dies its dead forever? 2. Why would a woman have friends around her and not be approachable if she wants to be approached?
I'm not Chase but its do or
I'm not Chase but its do or die most of the time. I don't know wat situation ur seeing this girl in all the time but me I don't like to be rejected in front a whole bunch of people either unless i'm drinking, but if my mind is made up that
I want to go at her I will wait like a hawk and swoop in at thee most opportune time. But as soon as u get that opportunity f. e. her friends get distracted, go to the bathroom or sum shit, u got to handle ur business. I be hearing about dudes that bullshit and pine away for weeks and months and finally get the girl, but even after 150 women I aint never did that. Drink sum whiskey dude.
You probably wanna have your
You probably wanna have your fundamentals down tight for this. And start being unfazed when she makes eye contact with you. What works for me is as soon as the girl surrounded by her her friends makes flirty eye contact with me, I hold it and don't look away...
Sometimes she'll look away then look back and see me still holding it...then I slowly raise my hand up and motion for her to come over towards me. I'm NOT going over to her. SHE has to come over to me if she's interested. ( sometimes I'm leaning on walls, crossing my arms, looking so cool lol )
If she doesn't come (which is ridiculous, she usually comes) then she's not into you in the first place.
Sometimes instead of coming, they may play with you and shake their head 'no' and motion for you to come to THEM.
You just do it right back and motion: no, you come to me.
after that she'll usually tell her friends she'll be right back or maybe tell them to go away. It really depends on the location/setting this is happening in. I've never actually been to a club yet, but I've been to parties and this has worked.
It's even worked in school settings like in a classroom.
It overall works really well when you're just a nonchalant un chasing mysterious guy.
If you view her as the prize, she's not coming over and it seems out of your character. Idk...just try it and see.
Girls with Friends
Jake-
Like Brian says, you pretty much want to do it when you can do it. It is possible to regain lost attraction... but it's quite rare. And usually takes a lot of time, and her going through other guys and getting fed up with them and deciding to give you another shot (or, her seeing you with other attractive women, feeling jealous, and deciding to try for you again).
If she's with friends and you want to talk to her and she's giving you signals, try waving her over. Just wave her over insistently, even when she waves you over or gestures "no"; just keep waving more and more dramatically and gesturing for her to come over. Then when she does, if she's still in eyeshot of her friends, tell her, "Come here; walk with me," and walk her around a corner or a pillar where they can't see her.
Then do your thing: "Am I crazy, or have you been sneaking glances at me sometimes?" You've just shown strong interest in her by waving her over and moving her alone with you, so it's fine to ask her this to get the ball rolling.
Chase
Getting a girl
Theres a girl that ive known for years, but has never really been my friend and, we used to be close once. Now we never talk anymore, because she went away for awhile and moved back here. When i saw her again she was very intrested in me but i wasnt i was very unresponsive to her signals, but now i think she may have given up on me, and now im starting to have feelings for her... We kind of have an emotional connection. She isnt some girl i randomly see in a bar and then shes gone. I see this girl everyday. My question is would a girl that has known you for years regain attraction for a guy easier than a girl that knows the guy for a short period of time? Also is there a certain guy in a girls life that she will never lose attraction too no matter what?
Girl Whose Known You a While
Jake-
Attraction can come back stronger if a girl's known you a while, yes. It can also stay farther away if she's known you but always seen you as a friend, though that doesn't sound like it's the case here.
The only man in a woman's life she will never fully lose attraction for is the one who's given her the best sex and the most emotionally-involving relationship of her life. So long as a man remains her best, he's never fully replaced in her heart.
Chase
What's my problem?
You mentioned ever having been with a girl who'd shown absolutely no interest to start with, and the answer for me is a resounding no, all my hookups have been with girls I've been 'sure of'. I've even been rejected by them and still had them come back. I've moved fast with some, some even as a last minute before I go home (or rather they did) "Come back to my place for a bit".
I've spent a good deal of time 'burning' really good prospects too. I've had girls climb into bed with me at parties (after stating their intentions earlier), spend time with me just 'having a smoke' etc etc. TBH I can't even count or remember the amount of times I've looked back and thought, that wasn't just her inviting you in for a chat. By now I should've learnt to be a bit more forward ALL the time, it's like I can't be around girls I really like initially, and so I end up with the ones that I grow to like, or ones that fall below what I want, or ones that really, really want to 'spend time' with me. The thing is there's absolutely nothing wrong with these girls, they are (usually) pretty, generally smart and always cool 'chicks'.
When I really don't care about the outcome I'm fine, more than fine TBH, but as soon as I start to care it all goes to hell. That's kind of what I'm working on, getting what I really want, and working out what it is I want in the first place.
Sometimes I think it's not rejection I fear, it's success, there's probably some pyschological reason for that but I'm at a loss to explain it.
Nerves Around Your Top Choices
Flames-
This is pretty common. The more you invest in a girl emotionally, the more nerves start to kick in because she starts feeling like a bigger and bigger deal to you.
I realized this pretty early on myself and forbid myself from thinking at all about women I really liked until I'd slept with them at least a few times (and usually not even then). I later expanded this to a rule of, "Do something as soon as you think to do it," after a flight to Milwaukee I'd had long after I'd adopted the "don't think about her if you like her" rule when I started talking to this really cute girl on the airplane, then decided I'd wait until the end of the plane ride to ask her out. By the time the plane touched down, I'd thought about how I was going to ask her out so much that I couldn't help being nervous (and showing it), and of course she declined. And I was smacking myself in the head; it was at a time when I almost never got nervous around women anymore, and aside from being cute this girl really hadn't been anything special. I'd psyched myself out by overthinking it with a girl that shouldn't have happened with.
Anyway, try that solution on for size, I think you'll find it addresses it: when you meet those girls you really like, tell yourself, "I'm not allowed to think about her until I sleep with her," and then immediately make yourself start thinking about other women whenever she pops into your head.
Minimize your mental effort, maximize your Zen.
Chase
Real Talk about Outcome Independence
People say it's good to be outcome independent when picking up women but I find that for me outcome independence (at least on the first date) leads to apathy. Let me explain.
Much of these tactics on this site work on girls regardless of whether or not you really like them or not (which is probably why some people conclude that seduction is manipulation). Once a girl likes me enough as a person and she's attracted enough to me, dominance and sexiness will kill them. But what almost always happens these days after meeting so many women is... usually on the first date, I realize deep in my emotional brain "she's not for me! " I might be physically very attracted to her, but I know that she's someone I can live without, no big deal, I don't care. I don't care how many men approach her, I don't care if they even take her away from me because there's more girls to meet. Apathy. And the minute she starts drama that I don't like, I am done. She gave me the reason I needed to break up fast and get out of there. I have NO inspiration to make a profound impact on her life. I don't know why I feel this apathy but I do. And I want to understand it.
I've met tons of interesting women, witty women, charming women, sexy women and still there's something off-putting about most of them that I meet and that I cannot quite put my finger on it. Maybe self-absorbtion/arrogance? As we know women prefer to be with a man that wants to know all about them. But once I deep dive and see how these girls think and move, something they say usually turns me off in some way. I don't know why I experience this feeling of "yeah this bitch ain't for me" but I want to get to the bottom of this "off-putting" emotion. It's not even about being judgmental.
These days I still have some anxiety sometimes in pulling the trigger with some women. I used to think it was fear of rejection. But now that I have thought about it more deeply, I realize that the fear is more about not hurting the girl since I know what will happen if I persist...I'll fuck her once or twice and then leave and probably break her heart. Who wants to do that? I rarely ever experience the wonderful emotions of pure excitement and thrill with girls. And the problem is when I'm truly excited about a woman and all she can potentially be in my life, I persist period. My enthusiasm dominates any fear or doubt and sends me into overdrive to accomplish what I want... to have this woman that I strongly desire. I still feel fear but it's not really fear per se... it's butterflies, it's excitement, it feels "right." It’s a whirlwind feeling that I cannot control and when I feel it I know exactly to say and how to deal with her objections. I care about the outcome. And when I care about the outcome I get this automatic URGE to persist, to dominate... until she gives in or goes home, forever, I feel no shame in my game.
I love the whirlwind feeling but I’ve only ever experienced it twice in my life. But with most other girls that I meet, I don't have these strong feelings for them like this off the bat. So without realizing it, I cared more about them liking me than asking myself if I like them. I cared more about just practicing the process w/o thinking to myself that I should just leave her alone and go find someone else. Without the whirlwind feeling, I am not inspired and I have to remember to persist, remember to be sexy, remember to dominate, remember to deep dive and it's so weird and strange...and it's alot of pressure because it isn’t natural. I’m just going thru the motions. And the thing is some of these women were rather amazing with big careers and lots of friends and could have potentially been very beneficial to my life. But I just didn't FEEL the passion. No strong urge to persist when they resist. No strong urge to forge ahead despite uncertainty and doubt. No strong urge to make them feel passion, to feel this whirlwind. And if I ever did get around to inviting one of them home and she resisted once or twice, I auto-reject automatically, and feel anger instead and say "I'm done. I didn't really want her all that much anyway, and in fact I feel like I was doing her a favor by spending time with her so if she has the nerve to not reward me by coming with me, I'm not persisting anymore. It's beneath me. So Goodbye forever."
And it's NOT about them being lower in value than me, in fact many had way more value than me. I don't know if it's a flawed mental model coupled with a sense of entitlement and false expectations, but at the end of the day I was not that excited or emotionally attracted to them (although I was physically attracted to them) so I was outcome independent. I am wondering if there is something else I can do, maybe be more fun and create more laughter (since I love to laugh) to warm myself up to these women emotionally and feel more of an emotional connection and excitement, and if and only if this happens then see if my emotions tell me to move forward or not? I’ve made seductions all about women and their needs and feelings and desires (which isn’t a bad strategy) but now my emotions are SCREAMING wait a minute… it’s not all about this woman please make sure to feel excitement too! So I want look internally to what I can do on my end to open myself up more to feel more excitement around women fast! Get them acting in ways that excite me so that I can warm up and be excited FAST. So then I can move fast with them! And we all know the reason for moving fast! But I don't know what else to do! Without excitement and enthusiasm (I know you say to tamp it down), I am indifferent. And when indifferent, I am bored.
Any thoughts on this phenomenon of what’s happening to me?
Apathy When There's No Spark
Breeze-
Yeah, that happens. I went through a period like that in 2009 / 2010 where I was picking up lots of girls and taking them home, but not really into them and not feeling it and I'd (gently, sorrowfully) kick a lot of them out at the first sign of any resistance. They'd resist a little, and I'd say, "Okay, you're right... you should probably head home so we can both get some sleep." And they'd go, "Huh? ... well, don't you want to talk some more?" And I'd go, "No, you're totally right, we should both sleep." And they'd go, "Uhhhh, well, umm, are you sure?" It's kind of funny to think back on in retrospect.
There are two possible solutions to this, depending on the path you want to take: one is to simply STOP dating any woman who isn't your ideal - if she doesn't excite you, don't date her. The other is to set an objective for yourself that you can get excited about.
There are men out there I know who CONSTANTLY want to sleep with EVERY girl (actually... more like every thing) they come across, and they're just enamored with each one they meet (at least, for as long as it takes them to sleep with them, anyway). The only way I've found to emulate this personality trait was to set an objective like, "I will sleep with at least one new girl per calendar week this year, to further refine my skill set with women." Then it becomes fun again, quite possibly because you ARE a little outcome dependent again - it's only Monday, so if you can hit your quota now, you're on easy street the rest of the week, or you can go rack up some bonus points, etc.
I think when you're a not-terribly-excitable guy who's more methodical and project-oriented, sex with loads of random women isn't particularly interesting unless it's satisfying some sort of objective. Whereas for other more emotional men, it can be satisfying either for the ego boost or for just the plain physical release and pleasure.
When I don't have goals like that, I tend to fall into cutting things off with girls as soon as it gets a little difficult, too. I don't even get angry about it... it's just like, "Well, whatever." Sometimes they try with me again later; sometimes not.
I've noticed my girlfriends of late tend to fall into two distinct camps on dating: a) the girls who are passive and never initiate, but will always show up as scheduled when you plan a date, and b) the girls who are sold on you the moment they met you and will proactively text you to set up a date. The girls who play games, act flakey, etc., I just never really connect with because both of us are too busy for each other, and neither of us is interested enough to chase the other. Although again, like you, if I met a girl I REALLY liked who was being flakey, I might try and nail her down on a specific date and get her out to meet me then.
Anyway, seems to me your choices are either: quit dating girls you aren't into, or... pick an objective you ARE into that motivates you to close things out with girls you might not feel as strongly about as they feel for you.
Chase
Should social networks be involved?
Hey Chase,
When your dating and trying to get with a girl, should social networks be involved in this? Is is bad to "like" girls photos on Facebook who you want to get with? I've always thought if you do this then it seems like your chasing here.
Also, when your texting is it good or bad to put kisses at the end if each message, usually the more kisses you send the closer you are to someone. I noticed in your articles you don't use kisses in text messages, kisses are "xxxx". They can be less or more.
Thanks chase
Social Networks / Kisses
Anon-
Unless you have an extremely impressive social network profile, don't involve this in trying to get together with a girl. Facebook, for instance, seems designed as one big orbiter collection tool for women... it's a great way for a girl to take some guy she's just met and turn him into one of her fans and admirers. Stick to texting to get her out on a date, and see this article for more on that: Why to NOT Meet Girls on Facebook.
On text kisses, these are fine once you've been seeing and sleeping with a girl for a while. If it's a girl you haven't slept with yet, it's far too lovey-dovey, and it's what she does with her platonic male friends. Having women give you x's or xo's at the end of messages is a bad sign too; it's rather patronizing. I cringe when I get these in messages from girls... it's always a sign you've got some work to do re-setting a sexual frame the next time you see her.
Chase
Late Bloomer, Getting More Notches On My Belt ASAP
Chase I never thought of myself as that bad with women, but after hearing my peers and other dudes run through girls and get their numbers up to 30-100. I feel pretty weak, I just want to know how hard do I have to go to get up to 100 or more girls in a few years? Like I know im ssuppose to be talking to like 30 girls a day but getting to 100 sounds kinda unrealistic. Im down for the challenge though, how can a late bloomer like myself get up to 100+ women? How hard do I have to go to get this mentality?
Notches on Belts
Von-
If you're committed to getting yourself as attractive as possible and your game down as tight as possible, 100 is not a terribly large number. Once you reach the point where you can consistently pull women home when you go out and you get phone numbers and dates from every 3 to 10 women you talk to, you should be able to sleep with 1 to 2 women a week with some effort - more, if you're especially good-looking, have your game down quite good, or move somewhere where your novelty factor is higher and barriers to sex are lower (e.g., Japan, Poland, Brazil, etc.).
I'd focus first on getting your core fundamentals down, getting sexy enough vibe, style, fashion, hair, etc. that women are flirting with you heavily and telling you you're sexy, and focus on pulling quickly for same day / same night lays and first-date sex.
Once there, the only things standing in your way are:
If you have enough time to be approaching daily (helps to have a not very time-consuming job, OR to have a job that puts you in constant contact with new, attractive women - model talent scout, nightclub promoter, or beach lifeguard, for instance), abstain from relationships, and stay motivated to keep getting out and meeting more women, it's doable in a short period of time. Setting goals helps, too (like, "I will sleep with 2 girls a month" - gets you there in 4 years even if you're starting from zero; or, "I will sleep with one girl a week" - gets you there in 2).
Lowering your standards is also somewhat recommended - the men with the highest kill counts invariably have the lowest standards too.
Chase
Too Fearful of Hurting Women
Hey Chase,
Great article hear let me know a lot about my approach to game. I've always worked from "get her to like me" first and wow what a flawed process that was lol.
Now I've realized another issue with my approach is I'm too fearful of "hurting" women. In my head I think wow she's attractive can't wait to talk to her hopefully this leads to sex soon. Then a bell goes off in my head that tells me "no don't do it if you go in with that mindset your going to just use her and break her heart."
It's an absolutely annoying voice in my head because I want to get some notches in my belt I want to experience all types of women. A relationship is FAR from my head because honestly I don't even know what I want in a woman since my experience is so limited. I've slept with 5 women so far.
And the one thing I know is I want a woman with a high sex drive and is willing to have some spur of the moment kind of fun. Other than that I couldn't tell you much else.. besides little things like not a liar and such. So this comment is asking you how can I fight this fear or emotional block that I'm using women?
Is this wrong for me to think like that? I mean I want to be a gentlemen about it and I do want to get to know the girl I'm just not looking for a "serious" relationship?
So, is this possible to have I guess you could call what I want a FB or more like a stable of women. At least until I get to that point where I'm like "okay this ish isn't for me anymore I want a relationship."
I've been struggling with this and I guess I want someone to say "hey this isn't wrong for you... I've been there too" kind of thing. Some sad emotional validation at its finest but I'd like to get a solid viewpoint on all of this.
Sleeping with Women Without Hurting Women
J-
I feel you. I'll walk away from sleeping with women sometimes because I can tell they're already falling in love with me and they're only going to get very hurt if we sleep together and it goes no further than that. They'll take it personal, and feel used or see it as some kind of deep rejection.
One thing that's probably important to understand is that a LOT of women in the West are more interested in hooking up and having sex than they are in relationships... especially if you present yourself as the lover, and not the boyfriend. Even women who hook up a lot can get hurt if you present as a boyfriend candidate, then don't want to see them again after sex. When all you are is a lover, they tend not to care.
Something to work on then for you might be this: weed out anything about you that makes you seem remotely like you're looking for or are interested in relationships, to the point where women meeting up with you do not think it's a "date." (Very few women I meet up with consider meeting up with me a "date" these days; I've even asked some of them, after we've slept together, and they've said, "That was not a date. I'm seeing a guy on Friday - THAT's a date," and I say, "Good - I didn't want it to be a date")
Once you've reached that point, the only women who can potentially get hurt are the very inexperienced ones, who can't tell Casanova from Prince Charming and think that every man they sleep with is going to fall in love with them and give them an amazing relationship or marriage. You'll be able to tell with these girls - just abort when that's the case.
For the rest of them - don't set boyfriend expectations, and you won't need worry about them getting hurt.
Chase
Being direct about sex.
Thanks for your awesome web page. It's really made a difference in my life.
I want to know when it's okay to tell the girl directly that you want to have sex. Recently a lot of girls have been stopping me in the middle of seduction to ask me what I want. I'm never sure if I should be honest at this point.
Also I've had some guy friends say it's a good idea to say early on that you'd like to have sex with a girl. So I tried it twice, in text messages. One girl freaked out, and the other became very interested. How do you know if this is a good idea?
PICK ME PICK ME! PLEASE ANSWER THIS ONE!! haha, seriously though...
Telling Her You Want to Have Sex
Don-
You have to be someone they perceive as slightly lower status than they are, but also sexy / sexual. I've always worked to cultivate a higher status image, and this does not work very well with that - imagine James Bond leaning over and telling a woman, "I'd really like to sleep with you." It's very out of character - she expects a smile and a wink from him implying what he wants, not for him to just tell her and remove all the intrigue and excitement and suspense. But if she sees you as "definitely NOT James Bond" but still interesting enough, it can be okay.
The only time I'd suggest trying it (and the only time I've heard of it working consistently - working here meaning ending up having sex, rather than just some sexy banter or something of the sort) is when you're in person, she's turned on, her friends are interfering and you're never going to see her again, and it's time to throw a Hail Mary - at that point, lean in close and whisper something very seductive into her ear, close enough for her to feel your breath: "I want to make love to you all night," say, or, "I want to tear your clothes off and bend you over the furniture tonight." That's either going to lead to a weird look, or her booty calling you at 3 AM.
Don't do it over text - every guy and his brother tries to be sexual over text / sends penis pictures / etc. I've never heard of this working, and the only girls who seem to respond well to it are the attention whores who love having harems of men telling them how much they want them. Stick to whispering it to her seductively in person - or, better still, imply, but never say.
Chase
trial and error
Hey chase, first time commenting :)
I like how this article ties in with results over reactions.
Just wana add that I personally could never get the most out of your articles until I tried the techniques out myself. As much as your articles make sense when you think about them, its really getting real results helps you understand the benefits and essentially the mind of woman.
Over the past year, Ive realised that 3 girls which I have gotten with didnt seem flirty but instead just seemed like they were acting nice. I still moved things foward, trusting what I had read and managed to move to bed etc.
On the other hand, there have been girls that have responded flirtatiously to me opening them and attempts to charm them e.g being flirtatious back and going along with the sexual innuendo yet I didnt really get anywhere besides maybe a phone number. In retrospect and after reading this article Ive realised I must have been satisfied with some of the reactions and not tried to move things along fast enough. Was there ever any times where you didnt move thing because you were content with the reactions and didnt want to ruin your "progress"?
Personally what I found most important from the article was: 1) how important it is to try and not worry about failing and 2) results over reactions.
Great Article and thanks a lot!
Not Pushing All the Way
Student-
Sure, that's quite common - it's quite normal to pass up girls who are interested because you're focused solely on, say, getting more comfortable meeting new women, and weren't thinking you were going to encounter a girl who wanted to go all the way with you, and weren't able to properly react - though you can get around that by planning your night like this:
Having a backup objective like that can help you not waste opportunities when you see them, because instead of freezing up, your mind goes - "Oh, wait - this girl really likes me. What to do..? Ah, that's right - move her, escalate investment from her, and see if I can get her home alone with me."
Chase
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