The 5 Big Differences Between Naturals and “PUA”s | Page 2 | Girls Chase

The 5 Big Differences Between Naturals and “PUA”s

Chase Amante

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Chase Amante's picture

natural vs. puaWhen I first discovered dating advice for men on the Internet in the mid-2000s, I was ecstatic; here were exactly the tools I was looking for to take what I was trying to do and put it on rocket fuel.

With these tools, I knew, I could shave years off my learning curve and advance at a far faster rate than I could having to figure every single thing out by myself, on my own.

It didn't take long though before I realized that many of the guys posting on seduction forums and meeting up in pickup lairs were "quirky"; there were things about them that were off, and the kinds of women they were going for were... not the kinds of women I was all that interested in.

I maintained friendships with the cooler and more "normal" guys I met through PUA - and indeed, many of these guys are still good friends of mine today, and are some of the sharpest and most improvement-oriented people I know (many are also quite successful in their businesses and careers nowadays) - but aside from them, I largely retreated to friendships with "naturals" - guys who were naturally good with women, and hadn't studied pickup and had only the most cursory knowledge of what it taught.

What I noticed was that there were some very distinct differences between the guys who were naturally good with women and the guys who were not - and while some of this went away as guys improved, some of it didn't; these differences remained.

And those differences very often meant the difference between being cool and getting the more attractive, harder-to-get girls, and not being and getting those.

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Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Normally, yes… emotional problems will wreck you with most people, and cause most distance themselves from you. It's easy for others to start seeing you as an emotional vampire if you're frequently in emotional distress and they're having to tend to repeat emotional wounds… the normal behavior is to first feel bad for someone doing this, then to feel disgusted if it keeps happening, then to start distancing yourself. I've had a number of people in my life I've distanced myself from because they became emotional and wouldn't stop being emotional - it just becomes very distracting.

Alternately, if you're experiencing ongoing emotional problems and it isn't something you will or can fix, it's probably best to be fairly upfront about these - they can sometimes lend you an air of Byronic vulnerability, and they'll screen out the people who want nothing to do with an emotional hot mess and screen in the people who want to play savior / emotional rock. Those are the individuals with superman syndrome - something I'd normally tell people to stay away from being, but in your case, these might be exactly the kinds of friends / lovers you'll need.

If it's more shorter term emotional problems you're experiencing, and they aren't that frequent an occurrence, I'd actually advise you to find an outlet other than venting to people to alleviate these feelings - start a journal, start a blog, take up a physical sport like weight lifting or martial arts, start making music - find some way to get the energy out that isn't destructive to your personal relationships. Then you won't need people around you playing the role of superman, and can get more normal, not-so-co-dependent individuals around and won't be scaring them off by shifting your emotional burdens off your shoulders and onto theirs.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Let me set the record straight. When I said "emotional problems" I meant speaking about issues that annoy or piss me off in some form or fashion. I get annoyed very easily, and I've held it in most of my life. The smaller issues I deal with, but the larger issues I think it takes confidence to show that side of yourself, to become self-aware and face the music. The way I look at socializing is what's the point of having someone around in any significant capacity if they are scared off when I speak about the issues that I am passionate about (even if some of those issues are things that annoy or piss me off... that I am trying to deal with on my own). It's more about having someone care and listen, rather than playing "superman" as you call it.

You say find an outlet other than venting negative feelings to people. The thing is, my interactions aren't always negative, just the occasional topic or two. Thing is, after deep diving and getting to know women more deeply, what happens inevitably if I let them is that they begin to vent their issues to me. It's like I'm the therapist and they feel emboldened to come to me with their issues. I don't shun them, I actually like getting to know who people REALLY are...the things you learn are fascinating, when you're nonjudgmental. The point I'm trying to make tho, is why is it ok for them to vent to me, but when I vent to them (occasionally) they appear uninterested in my problems or are unable to help. Isn't it supposed to be a two way street? Or do women expect men to have a listening, ear, give them sex, and be strong, calm, but unemotional/positive at ALL TIMES?

Are you suggesting that the better option is to hide everything that bothers you inside, for fear that other people will reject you if you open up to them more? To act like a robot as if nothing affects you when that's not true at all? Wanting someone show empathy and just listen isn't equivalent to needing a "superman." I can understand if someone is ALWAYS negative, then yes being around them is more trouble than it's worth. But everyone has needs, so what's the point of wasting any effort becoming close to people, if you can't self-disclose the occasional significant negative issue with them?

Franco Lombardi's picture

Anon,

Or do women expect men to have a listening, ear, give them sex, and be strong, calm, but unemotional/positive at ALL TIMES?

Pretty much. There are a few exceptions to this when you're already in a relationship with a girl and she is giving you drama -- in some of those cases, you may need to raise your voice and be stern. But other than that, you need to learn to have a listening ear and remain strong and calm. That is part of learning to become a man.

Do you ever see James Bond vent about his issues to women? Never; not once. Women have too many of their own fears and concerns to take on the additional fears and concerns of the men they wish to date -- and even if that's not your intent when you vent this information, that is the way they will see it. What they are looking for are men who are rock solid emotionally so that they can feel safe and at ease when they are in emotional distress. It is up to you, as the man, to learn to handle your own feelings and emotions about trivial things (and believe me, most things are trivial) so that you don't find yourself sharing heavy-minded stories with women. And even when you do share these stories, which can sometimes happen if she asks you more about them, you need to remain emotionally calm and stable because that's what shows her that she'll be able to vent her emotions to you without you flipping out on her.

As far as the things that annoy you or piss you off frequently, don't let those things annoy you or piss you off. Learn to accept that there are certain things in life that happen that are beyond your control. A strong, experienced man recognizes that these things do happen, and rather than being outwardly annoyed and upset by them in front of the women he is seeing, he just deals with these things himself and moves forward. That's just the way it is.

If you feel like you do need to vent emotionally to someone for the sake of doing it, then I would look toward close friends or family for this. They may not be able to give you the best advice, but they will be there for you under those circumstances.

- Franco

Anonymous's picture

And true what you say about James Bond (a fictional character). But what you left out is that he doesn't remain with those women for very long. So there's no need for him to vent about anything. Doing so would kill the sexual vibe. So from a short-term approach, there is no need to expend any extra effort on un-related matters that would kill the sexy vibe. I agree that in the short-term when attraction is at it's highest it's best to be rock solid emotionally so they can feel your masculine power and strength and just be sexy.

But my concern is not about short-term women. My concern is about longer term women. Girlfriends. Developing a two-way bond with these girls. For me, it's always been a one-way street. They vent about their issues, their gripes, problems, concerns, and I inspire them, I listen to them, and I usually just remain mysterious and aloof about my own problems. But recently I realized that have kept my emotions inside most of my life. In part because I didn't really understand them, and the times when I did understand, I didn't want to come across as being weak. So I kept my mouth shut.

But as I have gained more skill in emotional EQ, I have less inhibition about expressing my emotional response to things. I'm finding that I am more attracted to people who have the confidence and grace to express their emotional reactions to things, because it's more REAL. Obama comes off as aloof, calm, and unemotional and he's taking a beating for it. Humans are by default emotional creatures. Why hide inside?? The more skill I gain in empathy and emotional EQ, the more slack I cut people when they express (with words and voice tonality, not behavior) how they feel to me. I no longer view them as weak...instead I view them as human beings with feelings, and I am glad they have the confidence to open up.

I know you say to not let things annoy you or piss you off. But that's not realistic ALL the time. When you have to repeatedly deal with extreme things like hate, racism, prejudice, abusive parents, conniving coworkers, people trying to rob you, and other crazy things, they affect your emotions. To ignore them and say "I'm not going to get pissed off" I think is folly, especially if they impede your progress as a human being. Imagine if people like MLK et al adopted the approach of "not being pissed off." I think the better approach is to just use the the energy to invent solutions and do productive things to try and correct the situation.

When I say vent, I mean "talk about the feeling and the why behind it." Not "animatedly, uncontrollably show the feeling."

But at the end of the day you cannot control your automatic visceral emotional response. If people could control their automatic emotional responses, then why do y'all teach seduction to appeal to emotions more than logic?? All I'm saying is it would be nice to be around a longer term woman (someone close) who doesn't behave as if she views things as a one way street. (i.e. she vents, she speaks about her issues, etc and I provide a listening ear and advice. But when I am affected by things and I express what's going on with me they say little or appear to be uninterested).

Nick's picture

Hey Anon,
Yea, double standards can suck sometimes but some of them are there for a reason. There are a lot of one way streets for men and women in relationships.
On expressing emotions, many women love vulnerability in their men; they don't want to fall in love with robots.

It depends how you express them though. If you are angry about something the way you vent to your girl should be "how dare they, I will show them, I am fixing this", or even better you fix whatever problem you have then you tell her about the problem you solved(she will start to respect you more and think of you as Mr. Handyman). MLK was angry and he expressed it in his speeches but the way he expressed it was "how dare they, we will not let them get away with this, we will not falter". His anger helped arouse crowds to protest for liberty, he was able to pull followers easily to him because of how emotionally expressive he was in his speeches. He was never "woe is us, life is unfair". Emotions make us more powerful as humans, MLK accomplished many great things and his anger helped motivate him, so don't think to forgo emotions. You are correct that we should use emotions(mostly as motivation) with logic to solve problems.

On Obama, well he is the president no matter what he does you will hear people complain, he has such a wide audience with many varying opinions. If he was more expressive people would complain that he is emotionally unstable and not fit for his position or something akin to that.

So if you got your girl rolling her eyes at you, think about how you come across. If you notice anything that can even come off as complaining scratch it off. Girls hate men who complain and want them to go away. The best way they find is to just ignore them or give little, polite interest but not so much that they pull the emotional cork off a mans mouth.

Also this is my opinion but I think you should find a way to not rely on others to express your emotions. You can really drag them down; the ones close to you place you on a high emotional level to them. You affect them so much, the ones you are close to are the ones who make you and are also the ones who can break you. So if you have to vent your emotions I think it is best to do it to someone who is not emotionally attached to you, maybe a mentor figure to you.

It would be best though is you just skip the venting altogether. Even the best of men have to let out their emotions but the way they do it is on their work,when they work out, during rough sex, but not on others.

One more thing, I know nothing about your girl so you know a lot better than me but it seems like she might be emotionally detached to you and the relationship might be over, or maybe she is just not used to hanging around expressive men and is more accustomed to the "robotic" men and does not know how to react. If she was in love, in my experience she would jump at the chance to let you vent on her because then you rely more on her and become more attached to her. If you are a sexy powerful man and lover then that is good in her books as long as it is not a everyday or even every week thing. If your relationship does sour think of it as an opportunity to correct past mistakes and make new, more powerful relationships.

Anyway cheers and much success,
Nick

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase!

Got a question for you. There is an extremely attractive native chinese girl at my school who I just want to be friends with. The reason is that she is the club queen/attention seeker type, since at parties she is always with a different guy. I recently took her to lunch and I can tell that she was interested in me afterwards and that shes giving me indications shes chasing me.

Now, I dont want to seem like I use people but I'd like to use her as social proof to get other girls who aren't as bad a drama queen as her.

There is a party in the city this Friday night and originally the plan was for me to take ride the train in with her into the city. However, a few of my friends would like to come too and some of my friends are extremely handsome guys. Would you envision a problem for me keeping her as a friend if for the entire night shes around other guys? Would you just try to go into the city with her then? I guess my biggest fear is that since she doesnt know that I already friendzoned her, she may just lose interest in me all together and sexual tension will be gone instead of viewing me as a friend who can provide value (ie, attractive guys).

thanks chase!

baz's picture

I am a natural combined with PU knowledge, rare that I am good enough as a natural but am interested in this topic and want to know further out of interest (just as the article says) and to get hotter girls, and conquer my barriers increasingly

Your article is spot on about me when I read it. It is so well documented too. Fantastic work, loved it, just had to let you know

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