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There are, in essence, two main classes of women you can hook up with.
The first class is the women who just want you. These women find you attractive (some, even irresistible), compelling, magnetic. There's something about you they like -- or there might be many things about you they like. They're fascinated by you the moment you walk up, or they've grown attached to you over time as they've gotten to know you. They like you, and they actively want to date you, spend time with you, connect with you, be in physical contact with you.
The second class is women who aren't particularly desirous of you, but they are available to you. Many of these women are just bored. Some of them may be available because they're out to rebel, and you fit the "If I hook up with this guy, I'll really be rebelling against Mom/society/my overbearing boyfriend" idea they have in their heads. Some may be available to you for revenge. For some it might be because they want to have an experience. In each of these cases, these women don't want you or like you so much as they want some guy... and you happen to be the best guy available who makes it easy for such a girl to satisfy her mission.
We've talked about this before on Girls Chase. But I really want to dive deep in this article on the girls in the second class.
Because a lot of guys don't even recognize how many women are out there like this at any given time. The fact is though, if you're good with girls, a lot of the women you get will likely come from this class.
Comments
Here's something from an e
Here's something from an e-mail newsletter (copy/paste), I love stories like these, anyone have any others?
I am lucky enough to have a female friend who is married (and hot as hell). She recently told me an amazing story:
While at college in her 20s, she dated a dude for about a month. During one dinner he asked her to spend the night with him. She told him she wasn't looking for an intimate relationship.
(She purposefully lied. Says she just couldn't say yes on the first time.)
The thing is...
Dude never asked again!
They remained friends. Lunch and study dates occasionally.
Her last night at college, they went out, and she got all dressed up, hoping to get laid. Being the "gentleman" he was, he took her to dinner.
She tells me she was thinking, "Sex me! Don't feed me!"
They parted ways with a simple kiss.
Now obviously if dude had persisted, he would have succeeded.
But I personally have also ignored my share of girls after getting blown off the first time.
Here's the kicker...
I suggested to her that she must regret not getting a chance to bed this dude. She said if she had to do it again, she would do things exactly the same. To this day, she thinks dude is a loser for not asking again!
She assures me that girls do this all the time – say no when what they really mean is, "Yes, but I need to play hard-to-get before we can have sex." She says she isn't really sure why they do this either.
Also it seems hot girls will not initiate sex – even when they are craving it.
Guys Failing to Persist and Missing Out on Sex
Neal-
That's a great anecdote from that newsletter.
I will add though: not every woman interprets things the same way this one did.
I have had women tell me about similar situations, and say if they could go back, they would've taken initiative themselves.
I have also had women tell me about these situations, and say they wouldn't have done things differently, but they are still sad and wonder where the guy is now and still think maybe it was meant to be but wasn't.
"He's a loser" is ego protection (auto-rejection) some women will engage in if they feel like the guy rejected them. It sounds like that's how this woman interpreted this guy's actions -- she wanted sex with that last dinner, but he rejected her and didn't give her it.
Chase
Hey Chase,
Hey Chase,
1. I asked on the boards, why do members want all of their posts deleted and why can't they delete them?
Are the posts and members that easy to trace? can members be found out that easy from their account on the forum?
or can they only be found out if they use a personally email?
I've seen a couple guys seem to be very pressed on getting all their information deleted off the board. A person can't really be found on there through a job search of Google search or something ? I'm assuming the board is anonymous right? wonder what the big deal is.
and why don't you want the posts history deleted? just curious?
2. could you tell me why a younger woman would want a older man that is a lifeguard, bartender, or any job that gets your notch count up?
I thought that a man had to be retired, well off, or have his own business to get younger women?
why wouldn't they look down on him for having that instead of the other three?
am I missing something?
3. did the girl I planned a call with not work out because I planned the call instead of calling and what if you text a girl what she's doing and then if she says she's not doing anything, then call?
Do you think with the one girl that went ghost did that because I asked her when she was free to talk on the phone? I mean I was planning on having a long conversation so I wanted to make sure she was free.
do you think texting and asking a girl what she's doing, and if she says she's not doing anything, you give her a call then? how's that sound?
I just don't feel right calling out the blue, especially with these online girls since they never met me in person.
should I just call or should I text what is she up to, then call? maybe both?
thanks
Guys Wanting to Erase Their Histories
SZ-
It's a normal behavior anytime anyone's engaged in anything remotely non-mainstream approved.
Fine while you're in it. But once you decide you're done with it, suddenly you want to remove all traces. Just in case.
The odds anyone figures out you're 'you' on a random Internet forum where you aren't sharing any real private details are infinitesimal. Email addresses are private on the forum and we tell guys not to use real names (theirs or women's). Even if they do use real names (which they shouldn't), I've never heard of a guy being 'found out' over that. The only guys I've heard of a girl finding them out (I recall hearing two of these) were guys who left the boards open and logged into on a girlfriend's machine, or on their own machine they let a girlfriend use. Moral of the story: don't leave the forum on with your account logged in on your girlfriend's machine (or on yours if she has access).
We'll delete any personally identifying information a guy tells us he's posted, but not the posts themselves, because it's such a common trend... guy posts stuff, years later decides "Hey I've got a great girl, I don't want any risk of my history talking to girls being out there anymore" and asks us to delete everything he ever wrote. No cost to him to do that; we bear all the costs. We lose dozens or hundreds or thousands of forum posts, threads get broken, and the forum becomes a mess. So instead what we do is "If you have anything anyone could possibly identify you by in your post history, let us know what it is, what post, and what part of that post, and we're happy to remove it." People names, specific place names, photos (we often try to remove photos when we see them uploaded anyway if there's a face in them). Anything someone could identify you by. But again, I've never heard of anyone getting identified that way. Either you'd need to have someone who's very into picking up girls himself, and he's reading a bunch of old posts from years ago when you were still active, and he also knows you and knows of your old exploits somehow, and he says "Hey wait a minute... this is SZ!" ... but the odds of that are almost nil. Or you'd need to have some crazy chick who is like "Could SZ be on this random pickup forum? Let me read all the 100,000 posts on there and see if I recognize any of the scenarios in any of them!" Which, we don't have nearly enough readers on the forum for that, and people just aren't going to read more than 10 or 20 posts and then stop reading because it's an impossible task even if they think somebody's on here.
Younger women going for older bartenders/lifeguards... even if the guy is older, he still has in-venue authority, which is extremely attractive to women. He'll also typically have significantly sharper game in that venue than any of the random guys there, who don't feel nearly as at-ease and haven't tailored their games to the venue nearly as well as a guy who's been in it for 5+ or 10+ years honing his approach. Beyond this, you also have a subset of women with daddy issues who just prefer older men in general, and these girls will be drawn to the older, authority males there like magnets as (usually) some of the few attractive older men present (typically these places are filled with attractive younger men, or unattractive older men).
Chase
Hi Chase,
Hi Chase,
If these bored but available women don't like you from the get go, but then can fall in love after a few rounds of sex, are they more likely to cheat?
I mean, if a guy went with a fat chick but prefers skinny chicks, and the far chick gave good sex, was available after the guy had a bad week, but he still prefers skinny chicks, even after being with her for a while wouldn't he move on to a skinny chick in future given the opportunity so he would eirher end up cheating or leaving as an possible male equivalent of this situation?
Bored-but-Available: More Likely to Cheat?
Rain-
That's a good question, and I am... not entirely sure.
I think, no, not purely because of this? But it's kind of a hazy area with a lot of 'it depends'.
For instance, you can have women who experience love at first sight for you. Which might feel like the two of you are soul mates. But some of the time you have this with a woman, it's because she feels love at first sight for a lot of men. And even once she is dating you, and happy in her relationship with you, one day while she is outside she meets another man, and with him, just as with you, it is 'love at first sight'. She may do something with him very quickly because "it's fate" before breaking it off with him because "I already have a boyfriend I love very much." On the other hand, with girls who just do not really get excited about men (and there are women like this), once you get one of those girls she can be downright cheat-resistant. Other men meet her, she's as 'meh' about them as she is about you, and because she already has a guy she doesn't even have the logical impetus of "Well I might as well see where it goes."
Those are a few extremes. Of course, you could have a girl who gets excited for some guys, but you just aren't her type. So she goes with you, falls into dating you, but the two of you are at each other's throats a lot because you're not that compatible, and one day outside she meets a guy who's perfect for her. In that case, sure, you may be in trouble.
It really depends on the girl. Is she this way with everyone or are there guys she is/isn't like this with? Was she unexcited with you because she couldn't be into you, or she was just in a funk or very distracted, and once you're pulling her along with you she realizes more and more that wow, I am actually quite into this guy? What's her reaction after sex -- does something change in her ("Huh. Actually I really like this guy") or doesn't it ("Yeah, I guess he's okay and will suffice for now"). All that stuff mixes in to make it difficult to have a clear "If she is bored-but-available, that means she is X% more/less likely to stray in an long-term relationship."
In general I'd say if one of these is true:
... she is probably fairly safe.
Bear in mind with the #2 girls, usually they will have some guys they get excited about. Assuming they aren't wildly impulsive or deeply unhappy with the relationship though, just because they meet a guy who excites them doesn't mean they'll chuck their current relationship and go run off for a tryst with the new guy. Some may, but many more won't -- depends on the girl and the relationship. The best you can do is try to estimate your odds based on any red flags she has (or doesn't have) plus everything else you know about her past and her personality. The more red flags, the more checkered her past, and the more impulsive/dismissive/cavalier her personality, the bigger the risk. They less there are of each of those things, the lesser the risk.
Chase
Being safe with day game, online, nightlife, etc.
Hey Chase,
1. I know you said meeting women offline is better quality, but you run into the same issue with nightlife girls; how do you know you're not picking up a girl who does online dating or is a girl who goes out to clubs? and apps are more normal than they were before, so how do you know if your quality day game girl hasn't been using apps a lot in the past or is using them currently and might not tell you? the same for night game girls.
2. Recording girls on video and audio during sexual acts to protect ourselves against false accusations. isn't that against the law to do that if the girl doesn't know? do you think it's important to do this with every single girl we sleep with? think we could get a paper for them to sign to? could you go through the process of how to make this work every time? like how do we set up cameras and recorders? how do we even feel normal having to actually go through all of this for sex? it seems like to much to deal with and it would be better to just opt out of dating. do you recommend men do this with all women now because of all this drama? if so could you explain the whole process of setting everything up? should we ask her if she consents every time we put our dicks somewhere on or in her during the recording?
3. a. so with dealing with chicks from online apps and clubs, is it best to not sleep with them at your place? would a hotel actually be the best option? I remember you saying that it's best if girls don't know much about you at all. so I'm guessing a hotel would be good?
out of your place, her place, hotel, what order from best to worse is best for sleeping with online chicks and chicks from clubs?
the thing with her house, you don't know who's around or in the house, with your house you don't know if she'll tell someone where you live, or try to come over there random times, and she knows where you live.
I'm guessing hotel, but how do you pull it off and make it consistent?
b. also how do you know if a chick is cool to know where you live and come over your place after a first date?
c. how do you know it's cool to go over her place and not be set up after a first date?
let me know all your thoughts on that please.
4. is there a way now that's possible to sleep with 100 chicks naturally without using apps? is there a way to do it the old fashion way with going out all the time? it seems it'll take twice as long. is it even possible to sleep with 100+ women off day game alone within a few years? it's harder to meet women off day game alone, so I'm wondering if it's possible to even rack up lays that way.
5. should I regret not sleeping around as much as I should have in high school? with all the crazy hit going on now with dating, it was so much easier back then. you didn't have to worry about career, dates, money, going out every weekend to the club or bars, they just come over and it's easy. I regret not going harder because in my mind those were the best times to get laid, now it's nothing but struggle and paranoia. I think about how easy things were back then and wish I fucked a lot more girls back then.
6. can you give me some advice on how to still sleep with many women and not constantly worry about all the bad shit? especially from dating women online? it seems this is one of the fastest ways to hook up with women and I've heard many use it to get more of them, but after hearing you say how crazy they are it makes me paranoid, but this is something I can focus on as well as real life, so I don't want to close it off, but I am beyond paranoid and worried about these crazy chicks. any advice?
7. should black men mostly sleep with black women more than latina and white chicks off apps and in real life in general? should black men just stay a way from them and focus on black women because it seems white mostly accuse white men of false accusations, I'm assuming latinas as well. so do you think it's a better chance black women don't do this or wouldn't do this? which makes it easier to sleep with many of them without being so paranoid?
8. if online chicks think you want to hookup even if you say you want a relationship, does that mean it's best to sleep with them on the first night? because basically she's very open to hooking up with you? so you should treat all your interactions as if she wants sex with you more than anything else? so basically these girls are mostly down to have sex a lot sooner than other girls, thus making the process easier?
Thanks!!
Being Safe Dating
SZ-
Sure, you'll meet girls everywhere who've used online plenty.
In general, the more attractive she is, and the saner she is, the less she will have used online. She won't need it, and she won't have the patience for it. But you can also ask women about this in general: "How do you usually meet new guys?" "What do you think of dating apps?" The stronger her opinion is on dating apps, the more she's telling you she's used them.
I've never secret-recorded a sex session, so I'm not the one to ask. I know it's a thing guys do, and it seems like it can often be a wise thing. I will say it seems like many guys now are especially careful with very drunk girls or girls in dicey situations (like gang bangs / orgies). If you pick up a girl who's behaving weirdly aggressive, I'd get that on video too (high incidence of weirdly aggressive girls later filing false rape claims. It's a very odd phenomenon, but common). I don't know about the laws. But if you just film her together with you, with her talking into the camera, you're obviously not breaking laws. If you want to film every sex session (like 50 Cent claims to do), not sure, probably illegal. But if you're worried about it, it's probably better to break a law on filming without permission than to go to jail for a rape you didn't commit.
Yes, if you can avoid sleeping with maybe-crazy girls at your place, that's better. But not always so practical. Outside, their places, etc., these are typically best if you can swing them. Hotels aren't going to be as practical unless you're moneyed or travel a lot.
Re: #4 -- see here.
Re: regrets -- I'm not sure I see the point of regrets. If there's something you wish you did before, either do it now, or do something else better instead. I regretted not finishing an album when I still made music. So instead I made myself much more disciplined about finishing other things I started in the future, like books, products, etc. I don't regret not finishing an album anymore, because I've finished so many other things at this point. Work on stuff now, in the present, that will build into things later, in the future, and regrest about the past become irrelevant.
Re: #6 -- there's an old Damon Wayans movie called Mo' Money. In it, there's a clip where two store clerks are talking about STDs. One's really worried. The other says something to the effect of "You need to get laid a lot more. You really only worry about this kind of thing when you're not having sex." Which is... pretty much the gist of it. Most of these worries of yours are going to move to the background if you start shagging a lot more. Which makes them sort of pointless to obsess over... because either you aren't having sex and are worried about all this stuff, but you aren't having sex so it isn't affecting you,or you are having sex and you're going to care a lot less (still, take precautions, but you aren't going to jump out of your skin every time a woman is slightly off-kilter about something).
Also, I couldn't find the clip for that particular scene, but here's another hilarious one from Mo' Money:
UPDATE:
Here's the scene:
Re: #7 -- I mean, I see plenty of black guys having no trouble with this. The odds of a false accusation are higher with other-race women, but still not crazy high. But yes, if you're super paranoid about it and just trying to get your odds down as low as possible, avoiding white women and Latinas should help.
Re: #8 -- in my experience, yes. If you won't sleep with her the first night off online, I'm not really sure what you hope to get from her. Most of the women I've met off online where we didn't shag the first date, we never did. As far as I'm concerned, online / dating apps is "first date sex or bust."
Chase
Reply
Hey Chase,
Don't know if you saw my last comment or if it was too long to read, but here is a shorter version of it and I also wanted to reply to your last comment.
1. why did I never become a natural? I slept with women since my early teens, girls even flaked on me then, the only thing I didn't do was sleep with girls I wasn't attracted to. even back then I had girls playing games with me and flaking, I also had a lot of girls like me as well. I started very young and always had a girl around that gave me some type of pleasure as a young teen, so the only reason why I didn't become a natural was because I didn't want to sleep with girls I didn't want?
2. When you said I've been at this for 6/7 years with no improvement. That's true to an extent, I haven't improved with sleeping with tons of women, but I did improve with my game, deep dive, conversation, etc.
before I had no idea what to say to girls before this site, I had no idea on how to ask for a number.
I feel I got a lot of it down, but I'm missing something with game.
now about the 6/7 year thing. I found this site around that time, but I didn't start commenting until around after I went out for two years of going out to clubs every weekend. when I started commenting is when I was beginning to slow down and gave up pick up.
so at that time when I was writing more questions than ever, like 3 years ago, I was in a relationship that I had well maintained, but I still wanted to sleep with more women, but didn't want to deal with all the annoying rejections and games again.
so after 3-4 years here we are and I'm ready back to improve.
I say that to say this, I'm not a dude who is beyond terrible with women, I know how to keep them around, but I can't get past flakes atm, once I sleep with them it's all good.
I'm in a dry spell right now only because I don't want to to sleep with old girls that want me right now because I don't want to get lazy again like I did for those 3 years.
so I'd say yes the flake thing has been going on for 6-7 years, but I still had different women to sleep with during those times for years and I didn't have any dry spells.
everything has improved for me with women during that time, especially my mental game.
only thing is getting girls to come out to go on dates with me, that's all I struggle with.
so the majority of my non improment with getting more notches and partners was because I just gave up taking action, but still wanted what I wanted mentally.
I even went out solo and I never do that before, I feel very confident now doing that, that was a big improvement for me.
3. So I still want to get to 100, I'd like a refresher to get there the old fashion way. I still plan to use the notch cheat sheet, but I still want to learn game and get past my flakes.
so assuming I have a 9-5, go to the gym, and use a little spare time to work on a business or skill.
how much work should I put in a week to reach my goal of 100 women in the not too distant future?
if I remember correctly, you said at one time to talk to 20 women a night for 3-4 days at the club or bar? correct me if I'm wrong.
and what would be the number of girls to approach during day game? and how many days?
my goal is to have these number of approaches I should be making and days I should go out to get closer to my 100 woman goal.
so what would the basic template be if I want to reach that goal within a few years?
I plan to jot this down so I can remember the numbers of what I'm supposed to do.
I think this might be what I need to help my sticking point; talking to a whole bunch more women than before.
4. I read in one of your comments to a reader about cool people look cool about not giving a fuck, I wanted to learn how can I really do that in my life and actually make it true?
I worry about a lot if you couldn't tell, I'm paranoid about everything and worry about everything.
I just do what I want to do and not give a fuck. I've tried it in the past, but it doesn't last and I go back to worrying.
any tips on this trait I would greatly appreciate.
5. how can I change my current mindset with women? I feel that I'm being extra thirsty and feel like such a rookie that gets no girls.
when I read my messages it's like reading a lame dude, all these guys do is brag about their success and I'm here still talking about the same problems
I have been sleeping with women for a long time, I shouldn't be acting like this, I want to be more chill.
so how can I still go hard with my partner count goals, but not give off a thirsty I need 100 women energy ?
like I want if bad, but I don't want to have that energy make me too thirsty that it makes me look thirsty.
I want to be chill, I want to be like the guy I am that has been sleeping with women and having them fall in love with me as a young teen.
I want to just not care about women and not give a fuck, but I still want to go hard with getting women while being chill and I cooler version of myself because I feel my thirsty mindset isn't helping me.
in my mind I want to fake it like I slept with 100 women already even though I haven't, I want to be able to have that calmness about me, as if I already did sleep with many women.
hope this make sense.
Thanks
Questions
SZ-
#1 -- yes, probably. Every natural I know has a voracious sexual appetite. He sleeps with any woman who crosses his path and makes it easy enough for him. Priority #1 for him is getting his penis into vagina...and new vaginas, most importantly. To that end he becomes a constant optimizer, looking for ways to get better and better all the time with game. Typically he has a certain inclination, like sucking women into his world, that he always strives to do better at. If you don't have those same or similar drives, you aren't going to climb to natural-dom.
#2 -- okay, that's great then. I wasn't aware of all the improvements. That's excellent. The content of your comments always seems to be "I've been doing this so long, why aren't I getting any better, I haven't really started, why does it take so long, I go out sometimes, but these girls always flake", and stays that way for years. So the impression one gets is you are stuck in place and going nowhere fast. Text isn't always a good indicator of how a guy is in real life... you may be doing a lot better than you seem in your comments and just aren't communicating it, because you only communicate your sticking points here and aren't talking about your successes/improvements.
The 'missing something' thing is almost impossible to diagnose past a certain point unless you have a guy to work with in person. I've seen a variety of 'missing something' guys over the years and once a guy is a year or two into game, if he's still missing something, no matter how many talented guys he talks to online it won't get fixed. Whether any of these guys actually figure out the problem or not, the guy himself will say "That's not it", or he'll try their advice and either can't implement it or doesn't know how. One friend of mine who's like this met up with Hector recently, and remarked that he saw Hector do things that worked very well for Hector, then when he went and tried those same things himself they didn't work, and he realized there were nuances he wasn't grasping but he wasn't sure how to figure out what they were. Often this seems to be the primary problem with 'missing something' guys: there are nuances the guy is missing, but he isn't able to figure out what they are on his own, and because so much of this stuff is "working on your own / figuring stuff out on your own", he ends up stuck.
#3 -- it is much, much more than the volume of approaches you do. If you make 10,000 golf swings but aren't working on your swing the right way, you may not improve your swing much. If you make 10,000 free throws but aren't trying to get better the right way, you may see little change between #1 and #9,999. I've seen guys do thousands of approaches and see little improvement. It is not just volume (though volume is a part of it... but not the only thing by far). Again, if you want to get numbers in a hurry, I strongly, strongly suggest you do one of the things in this post.
#4 -- see this post, this post, and this post.
#5 -- see these four posts:
You may also want to pick up a copy of the book The Practicing Mind, which is about learning to enjoy the process instead of getting stressed out about not being at the destination yet.
Chase
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