Getting Past Player Guilt (and Not Beating Yourself Up Over Casual Sex) | Girls Chase

Getting Past Player Guilt (and Not Beating Yourself Up Over Casual Sex)

Chase Amante

Hey! Chase Amante here.

You've read all the free articles I can offer you for this month.

If you'd like to read more, I've got to ask for your help keeping the lights on at Girls Chase.

Click a plan below to sign up now and get right back to reading. It's only 99¢ the first month.

Already a subscriber? Log in here.


player guilt
As long as you don’t give false expectations, you need not suffer from player guilt. In fact, denying her sex when she wants it is NOT the way to spare her feelings.

If you're a man, you'd be forgiven for getting mixed up by all the mixed messages society sends you about casual sex. You've probably heard all the following:

  • "Casual sex is liberating! We must break the bonds of social restrains on sexuality! Let's enjoy our sexuality, and be free!"

  • "Casual sex results from a power imbalance between men and women. Women are forced to trade sex to men sooner than they want to, in the hopes of securing a relationship. It puts women in a difficult spot where it's easy to get hurt."

  • "Casual sex is one of the most empowering acts a woman can engage in. By embracing her sexuality, a woman can learn to love herself, and stop being dependent on how others think of her."

  • "Casual sex is highly damaging to women, and the casual sex epidemic is doing long-term damage to women's self-esteem and ability to form long-term partnerships."

You're alternately a saint and a devil, a savior and a corrupter for engaging in any intimacy with women you know won't lead to marriage.

Of course, the fact is, humans have sex. And they don't always have sex for marriage. If there are a lot of available sexual partners, many humans will have sex with many of them. This is true regardless of location or era. It is true in the West, and it is true in the East. It is true now, it was true 100 years ago, and it was true 5,000 years ago.

The issue is, if you want to be a player, and you want to feel free to indulge in physical intimacy with women who want to enjoy that intimacy with you, how do you get past any feelings of wrongheadedness about this, or guilt?

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.



PhilS's picture

Hi Chase,

Great article that I just needed! 

If I meet a girl during day or nightgame, have a date with her in a bar but can't take her home, have a second dinner date at my place and bed her that night but not another night thereafter, would that be wrong? Is a dinner date creating wrong expectations of boyfriend-girlfriend?



Chase Amante's picture


There's nothing intrinsically boyfriend-y about dinner dates at all! If you haven't set yourself up as a boyfriend, and you flirt and create arousal and escalate, a dinner date is perfectly sexual. No woman (short of those living completely in their heads) is going to mistake a second date dinner date where everything is very flirty and sexual as "unambiguously on the road to boyfriend-girlfriend."

If you take women on dinner dates and get a lot of "she's trying to position me as a boyfriend candidate" vibes from girls, it's possible you're behaving in a way that leads women to react this way. If that's the case, I'd look at if you're touching, and if so, how much; if you disqualify yourself from the boyfriend role in any way; and whether you are moving women around, getting investment from them, and escalating. If you do those things, and haven't otherwise set boyfriend expectations before the date, you should not have women mislabeling what you are to them. Even if it's on a second date (just mind your framing on the initial meet + date #1).


PhilS's picture

Hi Chase,

If I would meet a girl during night or daygame, have a drink with her at a bar on the first date but cannot pull her home, then have a dinner date at my place and I lay her, but do not see her again afterwards, should I feel guilty? Does a dinner date set boyfriend-girlfriend expectations?


Chase Amante's picture


No, not at all, unless you are setting unclear expectations at any point. Probably review this article just to be sure:

Any time sex is happening faster than, say, 7-10 hours of face time with a woman, and fewer than 4 dates, you're usually safe by default, unless you really go overboard signaling you'll be a boyfriend. There are exceptions for younger and less experienced women... but if she's old enough for drinks at a bar, she's usually old enough to not think a guy is going to automatically make her his girlfriend just because she went to bed with him. Occasional exceptions for mentally unbalanced women, of course.


Ben's picture

Hey chase good article. This is like that comment you responded where I was thinking since i'm a beginner that any girl I manage to sleep with will want a relationship with me since i'm mostly a provider. I've been having internal resistance for a long time when it comes to actually approaching because I always feel like I have to know what i'm doing,do it correctly and predict the outcome. I hate that I never get anything done because I have that drive and that ambition inside me deep down. But everytime I see a woman I like I think oh I can't i'm on lunch break don't wanna be late,i'm at the train station or in a subway car in my black work clothes that's wasting my time. Or I have some skin blemishes on my face and I think I look lile shit when I might not even look that bad,but my brain thinks it's keeping me safe from harm. How can I override this mentality of having to do things the right way? Also would you approach girls if you think you look like shit and if you were feeling depressed and doubtful? I watch the videos hector puts out and I read the articles you and everybody else writes and focus on the dates and lays,but think that you guys had it easy and you're always on fire with women. You highlight the successes to show that pickup and game can work in your favor if you follow a good process,but me I have this belief that is wasn't that hard for you,your struggles were short lived , you always knew how to handle situations and got results quickly. Do I just take action and cast aside these inner game problems that I have with myself?

Chase Amante's picture


I commiserate. I have a little bit of perfectionism myself. I spent junior high, high school, and the first 2/3 of university avoiding women, even if I liked them and knew they liked me, because there was never a perfect way to talk to them or do whatever I wanted to do with them or they wanted to do with me.

I've mentioned it in comments before, and probably ought to do a proper article on it. But rather than fight perfectionism, the way to not have it block you socially is to redirect it and harness it.

For me, the way I did this was by realizing I looked like a stunted idiot not knowing how to talk to people, not having women in my life, and so on. So I adopted the strategy of "I always need to be talking to people and practicing with people and improving if I ever want to reach a point of respectability." I'd still get upset with myself over mistakes, but if I wasn't social in social situations, or didn't approach women when I had the chance to, it made me feel a lot more 'imperfect' than trying and failing did.

If you can redirect your perfectionism to target being social and taking opportunities to try out things and improve socially, you can make it useful, instead of harmful.

but me I have this belief that is wasn't that hard for you,your struggles were short lived , you always knew how to handle situations and got results quickly

I mean... I didn't learn how to have a conversation until I was 22 years old. I had friends in primary school, but didn't 'hang out' with a single other person from age 12 to age 19, save for an aborted attempt at Senior Week post-high school, and a couple of house parties my coworkers threw when I was 18/19. From 19 to 22 I went out sometimes with my freshman year floormates and/or my randomly assigned roommates. But I really only went out about once or twice a month. The rest of the time I was either in my room, or walking to a fast food joint by myself. I spent a lot of time eating alone in Wendy's, McDonald's, and Burger King restaurants watching all the other college students in their groups laughing and talking, doing my best to not feel sorry for myself.

I learned how to tell stories and make jokes in junior high, just to try to get some of the social attention I was starved for. I got pretty good at it, but man was it stressful. Every single day I'd wake up terrified that maybe that day no one would notice me or think I was cool or, worse, that I would do something lame and people would think Chase was lame. Each day went by excruciatingly slow, I was completely alone but could tell no one because I'd look lame if I did (everyone knows cool people don't give a fuck, and I wanted people to think I was cool people, which meant no one could know I gave a fuck... at all), had to turn down girls I was crushing on or in love with because I was too scared to say yes, had to turn down guys I thought were super cool who invited me to hang with them because I was too scared to say yes, and finally had to watch all the people I liked give up on me and move on with their lives, and while they still thought I was cool (they said) and occasionally talked to me and invited me to things (which I still always turned down, while wanting to say yes), nothing I did could get them to pay that kind of attention to me again.

Life was complete hell. I tried to end it in my early teens. After I came out of that, I resolved not to do that again, but I still trapped in socially isolated hell. I was in the top 10% of my high school class (a good private school, too), and probably would've been higher if not for my depression. I did not apply to college, which made my teachers, classmates, and parents all flip out. All I heard was "What are you going to do with your life???" and all I could say was "Dunno, but I have zero interest in college. Not for me." There was just no way I was going to sit through another four years of having to do a bunch of work in a bunch of classes while being completely miserable and alone and watching everyone else party and have fun and lead social and romantic lives around me. No thanks. I went to university after a year of working as a tire salesman, thinking my sales skills (which were by then pretty good) would translate directly into social skills and I'd be going to parties and making friends and getting dates and getting laid. Then I got to school, completely failed to make any friends at all, got completely ignored by women (at least in high school they flirted with me sometimes), and collapsed on my floor one night after the first month and just broke down. After that I sort of made my peace with it and gave up on trying to make friends or figure out women for the next 3 years.

When I finally started making real progress on fixing all this, I was 22 years old, trying to figure out how to hold a conversation that went beyond "2-minute monologue about a funny thing that happened to me yesterday" or "wise cracks about random things that people always find amusing." I would go to parties and stand in groups of people and listen to how people talked to each other, what they talked about, and roughly what the rules of the conversation were. Then I'd watch the most socially successful people, and how they moved from group to group while most people stayed confined to their own circles. I looked at how they excused themselves from groups and how they joined new ones. Also at how long they spent away from groups and when they circled back. Then I slowly started doing this myself, making lots of mistakes but continually correcting them. I did have excellent social intuition (couresty all those years spent learning to 'feel the crowd' telling stories and jokes maybe?), so that was one advantage. But I was also 10 years behind everyone else in almost everything else social.

Once I started getting dates, I got ditched and dicked around in every way imaginable by women. None of it was willfully malicious; it was just these women playing a game they'd been honing themselves at for 10 years, and me being a total newbie who was trying to not seem like a total newbie because no girl wants to date a clueless guy who doesn't know stuff the other guys she dates knew half a decade ago. I didn't hold it against any of them; I knew I was the one stepping into the ring with far more experienced practitioners, but I sure took a lot of clobberings.

I didn't discover there was anyone teaching social skills until I'd been working on mine for a year. I'd been approaching women in bars and cafeterias, at the gym, wherever, and then after a year of that I discovered the pickup community and it blew my mind there were guys doing this stuff and you could actually read about how they made it work. I took training, saw some guys in action, and then I was going out a lot more, approaching a lot more, but dealing with tons of mental blocks that made me botch easy lay after easy lay. I had women throwing themselves at me but was so stitlted from years of crappy social skills that I'd just completely botch the layups they were giving me. When I started getting laid from pickup it was mostly SNLs from night game or (some) online game, and I was compromising on my standards a bit too much to get it. I was reaching a point of desperation where I'd plowed so much time into it (~1.8 years total; ~0.8 years of being extremely active) and was so unhappy with my results. Really what I wanted was a great girlfriend and I was just not finding that. I was getting pretty close to a breakdown again before I managed to land a truly beautiful, incredible girl, who did not want to date me but man I just put my hooks in that girl, there was no way she was going to not be my girlfriend. She was very good for me, and I started getting much hotter girls a lot more frequently once I'd 'broken the seal' with her.

But I will tell you. That was not an easy journey.

It's a little weird to look back on, because my life now is so different, and my thinking now is so different. All the suckage my life was for so many years was my doing. I had opportunities but shot them all down. Once I took responsibliity for it though, it was not an easy climb. I started from a deep, yawning hole. I didn't feel like I fully reached the 'socially normal dude' level until 4 years in. I didn't reach 'cool and totally confident in just about every situation' until 7 years in (2 years after I started this site). It took me 6 months (of being only semi-active) to get dates. I wasn't pulling off SNLs until 1.5 years in. Took me 1.8 years to get a girlfriend. I have taught a lot of guys over the years, on forums, in comments, over the phone, over Skype, and I am definitely in the bottom 5% in terms of how slow my early progress was. Once I was caught up socially, it got pretty easy for me fairly fast. But yeah, no, I would not say "short-lived struggles."

Do I just take action and cast aside these inner game problems that I have with myself?

You need to be in action; you can't solve inner game issues sitting in your room.

But, you should direct some of your focus to fixing your mentalities. I used to be sort of 'inner game hostile' and tell guys to not worry about inner game, just to get in action... but actually focusing on fixing bad mentalities was always a thing I did at the same time I was taking action as well, and just sort of didn't put as much conscious importance on, even though I focused on it lots.

These days I will say the formula is "be in action, be trying new things, if something doesn't work, try it 20 more times, then tweak it. At the same time, keep an eye on your thoughts, strip out ones that don't help, and replace them with problem-solving and forward-looking thoughts instead, or, alternately, have-fun-in-the-moment thoughts (depending on what thoughts you're training)."

This stuff can be really easy for some guys.

For other guys, it's a lot of work. It's still doable though. You just have to want it and be willing to suck up the wounded ego you get from wading into lots of rejections and uncomfortable social situations, and keep your eye on the prize.

Often this stuff works like a snowball too. Just because you have a little snowball that is moving slow and you have to keep prodding it to even get it to move does not mean that once it gets big enough it won't be hurtling down hill. Getting skills (like how to talk to people/girls, get dates, and put women into bed and secure them in relationships) is a lot like building a snowball in that it's a lot of work before a certain point; once you reach critical mass, though, and the snowball is so big it's hurtling downward under its own weight, the thing just takes care of itself.


SZ's picture

Hey Chase,

1. read a comment about someone doing one invite a day challenge. how does this work exactly and how do you get girls comfortable enough to make it work? can you use hotels and ask to go to their places too? should I try this with apps?

2. when you said your friend didn't make women comfortable enough and wrote them off too fast after not sleeping with them. isn't it the right thing to do to cut women off after not sleeping with them? and what did he do to make them more comfortable?

3. when a girl ignores your text, what do you text her? I know you're supposed to wait a day or two, but what's the next text to restart things? I'm taking about texting and apps. a girl could be talking to me and I'll ask something she'll ignore it. what am I supposed to text her back? should you even text a girl again after she ignores your question or text?

4. What can I do to become financially well-off and get high status now and as an older dude that attracts younger women?

I told you a while ago that I had to get out of my stem major because I kept failing the basic math classes, even accounting and finance is out, so I'm just getting a degree that I can use for tech, but it's not a guaranteed degree at all.

so I'm not counting on my degree to make me well-off.

I was going to do freelance, but I heard up work was screwing over people with many fees and charges and it is pretty much over unless you already have a bunch of clients. so that doesn't seem doable now to me either.

and how do older men get status anyway? 

right now I have 30k-40k debt and I'm lost on how I could become a financially well-off high status man.

if you can think of any options please let me know.

5. Do you believe in giving up because you feel you can't do it? I feel that way now because I feel I'm getting too old to get up to my notch count goal. I feel I'll never get there, I'm relatively young though, but these are my bad thoughts.

Do you believe that having thoughts like that should stop you from doing what you want to do and achieve?

my fundamentals are good and I'm improving myself a lot more than I have before. I'm taking a lot more action too, but with how long things are taking should I just give up? or still keep my goal?

my finances also make me want to give up as well because I'm behind.

to make it short, I still want to achieve my goals with women and notch count, but I keep telling myself it's too late and it's taking too long to get anywhere, I'm too old.

should I not let that bother me and keep pushing ahead for what I want?

6. In your opinion, do you think it's worth it put women off and focus on getting your shit together? I put women off for a couple years because I just gave up, and I feel I can't waste anymore time not getting my skills up, but I want to get more money as well. I don't make enough to get my own place and car at the same time.

so basically these two are tied together on how important they are to me.

but I would have to cut women off a long while because I have a lot to work for a while to get these things, and I mean quitting cold turkey learning no skills with women.

7. This question is about finances as well, so on the boards it seems that posters really go crazy for missing out in college.

I don't want to be crazy like that.

does it make sense for me to make less money, not have my own place, and to go to school so I can get the college experience with girls? is the skill learning worth it? I know this is the most I'll probably be around girls in one setting.

how do I even pick up from there? I'm so lost. I try to cold approach on campus, but girls aren't giving me any signals at all.

I'm an older dude and don't know if it'll be worth it, but I wanted your opinion on it.

would it be weird to join clubs or try to mesh in with the young folk? should I just do things on my own? is it even worth it and is it really that much big of a deal?

8. When a girl flakes, how do you fall back the right way without falling back too much? I'm talking about a girl flaking without even responding to your call or message, or should you be done with that?

how do you fall back without moving too slow?




Chase Amante's picture


The "one invitation per day for 30 days" challenge just states that you must invite one (1) woman over to your place per day for 30 consecutive days. This can be a girl on a date; one you meet at a bar; or if you don't have any of those, go do some street approaches and make an invite there. Try to get girls as comfortable as you can, but the point of the exercise is to do the exercise. If you're short on time, pick a girl, approach her, flirt for two minutes, then propose she come to your place.

The exercise gets you comfortable inviting women home. Most guys typically also get at least a few girls who come with them that they did not expect would, which is another thing the exercise does for you (shatters some preconceived notions about how 'ready' a woman has to be to join you at your place).

There aren't any rules beyond that. I'm ambivalent about including online game. If she's seriously coming out for a date and you get her to come straight to your place I think you can count that. If you just message some random chick on Tinder that she should come to your place that doesn't count. It's just too easy to do. The exercise is mostly to get you comfortable doing this in-person, with a flesh-and-blood woman in front of you looking at your eyes, primed to react to you one way or another depending on what you say and how you say it.

Other questions you have here:

2. If it goes nowhere with a girl and she denied you sex, often that is not going to work and it's better to move on. But sometimes you can get her the next time (or a subsequent time!). I thought(?) I had an article on this... maybe I didn't and should do one. But sometimes the girl is clearly into you and just has some reason she is postponing sex, and it can be worthwhile to keep at her a bit to get it (if you like her enough). Just bear in mind you get more attached to her the longer it takes to get to sex (generally).

3. Totally depends. If we were having a conversation and I ask her something important and she suddenly vanishes, I'll wait a few hours and possibly call her that night. If it isn't important I'll just pick up texting her again a few days later. But it's generally not a good sign. Other times I'll just not text her back at all; sometimes it's because I'm like "Meh, don't like her enough to persist if she's being difficult", other times it's because I legitimately just forget about her. Sometimes in those cases the girl will resume the conversation herself; other times we just forget about each other and go our separate ways.

4. Check my forum posts on those subjects. I've linked you to them a bunch of times now so I know you've seen them. Nothing else I have to add on that.

5. Giving up or scaling back goals is a normal thing with age. Imagine if every guy who wanted to conquer the world at 20 was still trying to conquer the world at 60. We'd have a whole lot of petty dictators! So this is okay, so long as you're replacing the goal with something else positive you genuinely want to do. People do not stay constant, and you at 30 will not be the same man you were at 18 -- you have a lot more experiences, many different perspectives, and the world itself has changed, too. It's okay to evolve. Just make sure it's a positive evolution and not just "giving up and replacing it with nothing."

6. Anything can be worth anything depending on circumstances. Sounds like that's a good course for you. You've been worried about women for 6 or 7 years now? But haven't made much progress (at least based on what you report). Women aren't going anywhere; you're a man, and men age well. If you spend a few years to get your life together, and come out of it on the other side more financially secure, more confident, more in-command of your life, you'll come out of it a more attractive man better positioned to improve faster with girls too.

7. Those guys going crazy are mostly all Indian. You're not and I'm not. I didn't get The College Experience and maybe sort of regretted it a little bit for the first few years after school when I wasn't doing that great with girls yet? Once I reached the point where I could get laid consistently with very attractive women and I was able to socialize with cool, successful guys, I did not have any lingering desire to have been whipped in the ass with a fly swatter by my frat bros or to have hooked up with some 10-pounds-overweight drunken freshman sorority girl with blonde highlights at my sticky beer-floored frat house junior year while listening to Bon Jovi at full blast. I mean, have you ever been to the Full Moon Party in Koh Phangon? If I really wanted that experience, I would just move there, or Majjorca, or Pattaya, or Mykonos, or Boracay, or one of those places for a year. I had a friend who lived in Koh Phangon for 8 months and shagged so many women and drank so much alcohol and made so many friends he basically never wanted to talk to another human being after that. He had his fill. I do not think you need The College Experience to be happy in life, unless that really is your One Shot To Have Some Semblance Of Freedom and you are just going straight into the corporate meat grinder after that, where you will climb the ranks to middle management, never taking more than your allotted 2.5 weeks of vacation off per year, marrying your post-wall wife in your mid 30s after you are done hooking up with bar girls and she is done with drunken flings with men she barely remembers, producing your 1.8 children, having your mid-life crisis at 47 where you buy a Porsche and have an affair with an ugly-but-available woman in your office, and getting divored sometime in your 50s after your children have left for college or are just about to. If you're going to go that route (and my guess is most of the guys freaking out about missing out on The College Experience are all going to go that route), then I guess in that case it might really be your One Shot To Have Some Semblance Of Freedom and you maybe want to prioritize doing that. But then again, if that sort of life is so important to you, maybe you should rethink the whole traditional cradle-to-grave grind in the first place? Just thinking out loud here.

8. Pretty sure that's the same as the earlier question. There's not a particularly good way to teach nuanced social calibration over the Internet. So I will say... experiment with "falling back" in different ways, with different women, and see what gets you best results.


SZ's picture

Hey Chase,

Just read your last reply to me and wanted to ask questions about it. Please don't take this post the wrong way, I'm not complaining or anything, just wrote a lot about the details of my pickup journey.

1. I'm still confused about how hard is it really to reach 100 lays without the notch cheat codes? Is it that hard? or am I too old to do it anymore? is there a certain age range where this can only be accomplished at? or Is 100 lays that hard to reach for anyone?

I heard dudes say they reach 100 before 25, Idk if they're lying or not, but a lot have said it, some say women reached there by 22.

I don't see why I can't get to there normally with fundamentals and game.

I'm willing to put the time in, and if it takes 2-5 years I'm down for it.

I will use the notch count methods too, but I'm not sure I'm understanding, but why does it seem to me that that's the only way for me to reach my goal? I'm willing to put more time into it, I'll do both, but I still want to be able to get numbers up the old fashion way too.

There's members on the forum who were virgins and have had sex with many women within 3-5 years and got there numbers up really high.

so I can't do that as well? I'm still willing to do the notch count cheat codes, but I'd like to also work my way up without it as well. I want to use both, but If I do decide to get a career that isn't in one of those notch counts, I'd still like to do it on my own.

I'm willing to put in the time to get there and don't mind it taking some time, but the only thing getting to me is how long things are taking to get rolling so I can have a glimpse of how many women I can get a year consistently.

I hope I can still get there. 

2. If you think 100 is too high the regular way, what is a good number then that I could get to before using notch cheat codes? I'm more or less trying to get to a high enough number where I don't feel inexperienced to others numbers. I feel 100 is enough to be higher than most.

but maybe there's a different number you might know of that I could be OK with compared to others?

I think you said 25? I think?? idk, but what would be the most high count achievable number I could get without feeling so inexperienced with notch counts compared to others and I can feel I have enough to still work hard and calm down. Like what would be the minimum amount of lays you think I or any person can get that is still high enough to not feel like he missed out?

3. The question you weren't sure I was asking about. I was saying that I slept with girls fast from work instead of slow. I believe you said that I was sleeping with so many girls from work because I won them over over a long period of time, but I actually slept with most of them very fast when I met them, like within a couple weeks.

4. To be honest Chase I have been working harder than I have in years with this now, I've been going out solo and doing dating apps heavy, still flakes. I know I've been having problems for a while, for a long while, but I really have to say it's just bad luck man, before I really commented on this site I was going out 2-3 nights a week for like 2 years consistently. I didn't get one date from that, just flakes, even though I got make outs and everything else.

So when I kept asking questions for years after that, I was in a difficult spot. I had a girl, I was broke, and I just gave up, but my mind still wanted to improve with women more.

Those were mainly the years where you kept telling me to take action and I would do a little bit when I could because the failure of the previous years of clubs and other flakes just burned me out. I got lazy and had a girl treat me like a king during those years, I almost settled down because I was tired of the flakes for all those years, but my mind didn't want to give up.

so finally after all those years I'm getting back to where I was but better, but my thing is why didn't any success happen at all during all those club years? not one date? you and I don't know why I haven't gotten a single date, even without the best fundamentals and game, one date would be normal and I got at least a number or 2 every single night. might not be a lot, but if you go out 2-3 times a week for years you should get one date.

sounds like bad luck to me man, there's no other explanation.

so yes I did have a period of action where I was going out hard trying to get women.

the only thing I didn't try consistently was day game, so you mean to tell me day game is the many year long answer? lol I really don't think so, I've tried club/bar game, I've tried online dating apps, work, etc. 

to me I highly doubt that day game is the only reason why I don't have a high notch count, it has to be bad luck man or something. There's no rhyme or reason to it.

so hopefully things get better and my luck gets 10 times better from now on, but I know it's more to this than just day game.

so basically I put in a lot of work those years at the club going 2-3 nights a week for years with nothing to show for it, I had to quit, it was too much for me, I shouldn't have kept asking you all those questions during my many year hiatus from pickup, it was my mind that wanted to keep trying it, but my emotions had enough.

my thing is, not taking action is understandable, but what about when I did take action? nothing came from it, I tried hard during those times.

so I didn't mean to not take action during those years, but I did take action for some time and got nowhere.

4. My last question is, why didn't I become a natural? I had make outs in elementary school, had sex while in my early teens, girls have always liked me, only part I messed up was not sleeping with more because I wasn't attracted to the ones who really made themselves available to me.

but guess what? even during those times girls played games with me too!! so I could never become a natural back then because of the same things I'm going through now, girls flaking!!

see actually getting laid is not the problem for me, it's getting notches. I usually have sex partners for months and years, but I want more than that I want high numbers.

so anyway, I have had girls always attracted to me, when I slept with girls they always stay attached and they come back even after years that we were together.

so I'm good in all departments, but getting multiple notches. I dealt with flakes for a long time.

so it's like, how can I become a natural with a high lay count if I try to move fast with girls and they mostly flake? even as a young dude?

I was trying kind of hard then too, had chick's attracted, but many did not want to go further.

it was mind wracking as it is now. 

but I had an early start, I've done sexual things at an early age, I even tried to get more notches, but got flakes, it's like a never got a chance to become a natural because of flakes.

the only option I had to get lays was to sleep with girls I didn't want or join a sports team.

but that's it? hard work doesn't work for me? I tried to get a lot of girls to sleep with me back then, I wasn't thirty or anything, but I would talk to them and try to get them alone with me. I was always cool and even more take it or leave it back then. I was very nonchalant about it and figured if she wants me then she'll come.

and it's always been like this lol I can have every girl at school or work like me, but many won't do more.

so basically I didn't become a natural because I didn't sleep with women I didn't want? but the ones who showed attraction that I did want decided to flake on me for whatever reason? sounds mad doesn't it? lol

basically I should have slept with any girl and had no standards then I guess.

well, all I can say is hopefully things get better and I get to be where I feel like I deserve and things work out well.

my only problem is getting multiple lays, which come from girls flaking, so my problem is flakes mostly. 

I just have to find out what I can fix.

all of the girls I slept with I didn't do anything different, I didn't act anyway different than I act with other women. so idk what to work on.

I'm honestly tired of asking questions to everyone, I want to be able to help guys achieve what they want. I want the experience to help guys with women and life.

And another thing is, I have no bad intentions with these women, I want them to feel good, I want to make love to them, that's what I want, I want to have a high notch count to have memories of beautiful women. I feel that I should be able to have that pretty consistently.

I just hope that it isn't too late to achieve what I want with women.

I appreciate all the advice over the years man, really do, just please tell me I can fix this thing that I have always had a hard time with and get to make beautiful memories with beautiful women.

I'll just think really hard on what I can work on.

I want to fix this and I will.

Thanks Chase

Ben's picture

Could you address the final issue that you bring- that sleeping with women damages their ability to have long term relationships?

You made a fairly convinving case that emotionally, assuming you are going to flirt and go out and attract women, not sleeping with them isn't doing them any favors.

Maybe we really shouldn't be going out and flirting with most girls (excluding the ones who need an emotional escape or similar i guess) from an emotional standpoint?

More importantly though, how do you justify flirting with girls then sleeping with them, knowing it damages their ability to have long term relationships? This bothers me more than the emotional aspect.


Chase Amante's picture


Hmm, not sure how you've read "sex with women damages their future relationships" from the article.

Partner count is directly tied to infidelity risk in women, this is definitely true. The more men a woman's been with, the less likely she is to stay faithful. The more divorces in a woman's past, the more likely she is to divorce again in the future, too. I haven't seen any research on it (and doubt it exists), but I'd imagine number of lifetime boyfriends also increases a woman's odds of ending a future relationship... the kind of girl who jumps from guy to guy is also more likely to jump to the next guy.

Beyond that though, I haven't seen much evidence of women's sex partners damaging them much for future relationships, unless those partners were abusive, or set expectations they dramatically failed to hit. If a man promised her the moon, and she really believed it, then he did not deliver, and it was an awful end to the relationship, that will affect her future relationships: she'll be a lot more cautious, less trusting, and less giving. This isn't about the sex per se; it is about the nature of the relationship. Thus why women's past matters when you want a serious relationship.

In the manosphere, the general sentiment seems to be "sexual relationships with other men harm a woman's ability to pairbond with her future husband." This can be the case, but... it's much, much more complicated than the manosphere guys make it.

Maybe I'll do an article on this in particular. It's a prety fuzzy area and probably something to address in clear terms ("Are you damaging women's long-term potential if you have [sex|any other specific kind of interaction] with them?").

But in general, from everything I've seen, unless you do something insane to her, you're probably not going to have much impact on her future romantic relationships if all you do is sleep with her. Now, if you have a longer relationship with her, there's a lot more potential to boost her up or, alternately, ruin her for future men... but again, that's something to discuss in detail on its own.


Ben's picture

I took this part of the article -"Casual sex is highly damaging to women, and the casual sex epidemic is doing long-term damage to women's self-esteem and ability to form long-term partnerships." - to mean that casual sex does damage women's LTRs.

Higher likelyhoods of infidelity and divorce seem to support the idea that casual sex damages the ability of women to pairbond in some significant way.

I'd appreciate an article on this, thank you.


Chase Amante's picture


Ah, noted.

I was quoting that (along with the other three quotes in that section) as 'web wisdom'... common things you'll hear around the Internet. That is not my position. My general position is "casual sex is a natural sorting method women and men engage in to discover what caliber of partner they can secure", as discussed in my article on satisficing. I don't think it is usually harmful.

A woman who's engaged in a lot of casual sex is generally a red flag for a guy looking for commitment. It's not so much that sex damages the woman as that a lot of sex tells you a woman may be unclear on her mate value and won't be happy with any man she's good enough for. That's not always the case (sometimes she's just a sensation-seeker... which can present other problems for men wanting an LTR). But it is often enough to be a flag for men who want monogamy. The sex is much more symptom than cause, however.

I'll still do an article on it. There's some nuance and it's worth fleshing out.


Add new comment

The Latest from