13 Positives of Long-Term Relationships and 6 Drawbacks | Girls Chase

13 Positives of Long-Term Relationships and 6 Drawbacks

Chase Amante

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Tony Depp's picture

By: Tony Depp

long-term relationship
Is a long-term relationship right for you? Guys naturally experience a measure of turmoil when faced with commitment. What could you gain? What could you lose?

Should you be in a long-term relationship, or keep on rocking solo? If you invest enough time into learning pickup, you’ll inevitably find a girlfriend. For some guys, it happens on the first approach, for others, it takes a month, or a year. But it’s only a matter of time before some play-ette snags you into a long-term relationship (LTR).

Trust me, it happens to all of us.

But you do have a choice, even if it means a lifetime of crushing loneliness and regret.

Comments

Ambiance's picture

I love Kingdom Rush! Seriously some of the best tower defense out there. The new Vengeance game might be their best yet, which is truly saying something.

Other than that, great article. Very applicable to my own life at the moment.

Author
Tony Depp's picture

It was on my mind becaue Chase mentioned it too. It's one of the best games ever for passing the time. That or Plants vs Zombies. 

KnitterQueen's picture

Woman here. Middle aged psychologist. I love, love reading the blogs here on GC, because the advice here is so incredible non-PC, yet most times so incredible spot-on. Even the bind spots on GC are interesting.

So I wonder about your take on what the benefits of a new LTR are for single women over 45. I mean, it is obvious that if a woman wants children, all parties are better off in a good LTR. But most women over 45 that come on the dating market ( so, mostly divorced) are economically independent, can take care of existing children, and do not want any more children.
Companionship, intimacy, love, guidance, shared experience, emotional support, she can get from ( girl)friends and family. She usually has invested deeply in these. You could say that by 45, after being single a while, her relationship with family and friends is her primary one.
For sex, she needs a man and will probably prefer a LTR, that is true. But many women have, by 40 sort of given up on sex. Cuddling is easy to get, and orgasms too, for any woman who reads her Cosmo :)

Economic support, that is a tough one. Many women earn as much ( or as little) as guys. Both woman and man have little to gain in becoming economically dependent on each other for a relationship that they both now from experience, won't last. By then, it is realistic to assume a relationship may last only 2 to 7 years. If i were a man, I would not want to marry. But most women don't want that either. They know they will invest more then they get out of it.

Moving in together, to save cost on housing, is only a net positive for the woman if the man moves in with her. If she has to move in with him, over some distance, that means giving up on her job, her home and her social support network. That can mean a great loss of assets for the woman, as most women usually have invested more energy in their home and social support network then the guys have - guys invest more in their employability.

Living with a guy has a lot of drawbacks and dangers for women, anyone can formulate these for herself. The biggest one, in my opinion, is the gender gap in housework and emotional work, confirmed by study after study.

What is my point, you may ask? I am not taking the time to write this to complain about guys. That would be improductive and stupid, especially here on GC. :) No, I hope I am addressing a blind spot in the topics on GC, and that I can get you guys interested to adress it. I would be very interested in your thoughts.

Many readers here, I suppose, are interested in women over 40. Or they will be, at some later point in their dating life. For those readers, it might be beneficial to ask themselves what they have to offer to their female counterparts. How they can convince them that they have to offer more then they cost her.
Because for the women over 50 , the advantages of a LTR with a regular guy their age are not that clear.
Data from the Dutch bureau of statistics backs me up here. Fully HALF of the Dutch women over 50 are no longer interested in a steady relationship https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2015/07/relatie-hoeft-niet-meer-voor-hel.... That means that he dating pool for guys dating this age group there half as small as it could be.

And it also means that guys who DO have a good answer to the objections of dating for these women, have an enormous advantage.

(Obviously the really attractive guys don't have this problem, and neither do the men who stay married or who compete for women still interested in having children. And the complaining of "where are all the good men/women" is just magazine filler. But When it comes to regular middle aged Joe's... I did not want to spend too much time trying to wrangle the US census data, but my hunch is that more men over 50 are looking for a LTR then there are women looking for the same.

And if that is true, then there is a market to teach those men over 50 how they can get a woman over 50 to be interested in relationships again!

KnitterQueen's picture

Upthread I mentioned that after a certain age, women become less interested in living together then men are. And that may very well mean that the relationship peters out, as well. I found a few scientific articles that spot the same trend and try to offer explanations. But no solutions!
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/article-women-older-t...

The article describes women over 65, so usually women who are retired. In short, their reasons not to want to live together is because they want to enjoy their freedom.

I suspect that women in the last stage of their career, 45 tot 65, are less plentiful on dating sites perhaps because they are afraid a relationship with men will cost them time - hours of their day that they feel they have to spend on work, and their network.

And yet, men may be forgiven to think that older women are indeed looking to date - I think, because of the women who still want to become mothers, and are very active on the dating market right up untill 40-ish. Do the data show a sharp drop off of women interested in relationships after that point? I don't know if that is true or just a cautionary tale that people love to tell each other.

Article after article lists that there are more women then men over 50 - and demographically, that is true. But if half of those women opt out of dating for a live-in LTR, while men do seek that, then those men have a problem. This article says that about 30 percent of men over 65 "crash and burn" and basically give up on love and life.

On the other hand, there are the loud complaints of women over 60 in magazines that there are "no good men left". I suspect that their complaint may be read as; "If a man has to offer what I want, is as good looking and succesful and well rounded as a person as I am, then he... usually looks to date younger women, and I am left to date men that are substandard to me, in which case, I 'd rather opt out" .

So.. Chase and Tony, what are the kind of fundamentals a guy over 50 should develop, apart from the fundamentals you already list? Where should he meet the women he is interested in and how can he seduce them out of their relational and sexual "sleep" ? What kind of techniques work different on older women?

T's picture

Hi,

Excerpt: "For those readers, it might be beneficial to ask themselves what they have to offer to their female counterparts. How they can convince them that they have to offer more then they cost her."

How exactly is that looking like? What do you want to set against what?
(Apart from the fact that for each woman the expectations of a relationship are different).

But the most funny/questionable is that:
Excerpt: "Because for the women over 50 , the advantages of a LTR with a regular guy their age are not that clear."
I don't know how it was meant by you.
But I can tell you how it seems to me (as you certainly know everybody sees what he/she wants to see :-) ):
"I am a woman with good career, clever and still good looking and now it is in your resposibility to show me that you are able to hold a candle to me."

And because you read GC you know that this pushes men into the nice guy/simp/woman on pedestal corner.
And because you read GC you also know that one big part of this site is dedicated to help men to avoid exactly this.

But apart from that, if a 50 year old woman doesn't know what she wants from a relationship with a man for herself then nobody knows and nobody can tell her and shouldn't because me as a mature man I want a mature woman who knows what she wants and I don't care if she has more money, a better job, career whatever. If chemistry is there i'ts my experience that she don't care neither.
And if chemistry is not there, well no big deal - there are a lot of other attractive women out there.
And because you read GC you know what it is: the much acclaimed abundance mentality.

T.

KnitterQueen's picture

If I think a little more on the subject, this is the key term: care. To seduce women over 50, a man has to imply that he would like to be cared for by his chosen female, but does not NEED it. And that he will offer manly care in return.

Many women, after their first youth, are caregivers first and foremost. They care for their children, their aging parents, stuff at work. And often they slip up and start caring for their husband, not in a sexy way, but by mothering him and bossing him around. This is a bad thing for all involved. It is also, sadly very common. The more stressed out a woman is, usually because she perceives her partner to be of insufficient help, the more she slips into the stress response of "tend en befriend" which is the female version of "freeze, flight or fight". https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200009/tend-and-befriend. Thus increasing this spiral, and the men losing leadership and the relationship deteriorating.

Yet, many older women feel that care and tending is the best thing they have to offer. Their equivalent of attractiveness in younger women. And they do want to offer up their care - but to people they choose. After their network has been cared for enough, they might bestow their care on stray cats or young gay refugees rather then on single older ordinary men.

So, what should be the seducing gambit of ordinary older men to older women? I don't know, but I can guess. I suspect he has to ask for care that is very easy to give for her - maybe a meal. And he has to make sure she knows he is not looking to extract more care then he will give in return. Care she needs- usually tech and strength stuff. It's almost a clichee that the guy will offer to "hang some shelves" for her, or the modern variant, set up her wifi for her.
It won't hurt if he tells the woman she is beautiful and sexy - unlike younger girls, she probably hasn't been told she is sexy in years. He might even have to put a lot of effort into convincing her he really feels that way.

So, those have been my scattered thoughts on the subject. I would be very interested to read what you have to say about it, and I think that the part of your readers who are regular ( not exceptional) older guys wanting to approach and seduce women over 50, might benefit, too.

militarybrat51's picture

I'm 60 and date women over 50 it ain't easy for sure. Little background I'm a SIGMA male bag is always packed I make my own way in life. I take care of myself and do not NEED anything from anyone. Cohabitation is fine marriage is out been there done that. I will not be ancored down again. I will never submit to anyone. I keep my weight under control and I am active.

Here are some of the things I have encountered.

Women not putting the past into the dust bowl of history they are still mad at the guys that left them. I have to hear all about it on meet and greets. They vent to a guy and waste his time and think it is ok to do so.

They want you to be the guy next door

They want control over you. Here is a repetitive line I hear a lot "How is this going to work for the relationship I want" When asked what do you want you get silence. When asked more importantly what don't you want the silence is profound.

They seem to think it is ok to waste your time don't let them as my time left in this life is short.

Here is a brief field report from last weekend where we did a meet and greet.
We meet up at her beach about noon we go grab a bite to eat. Share pics at the table conversation flows server had to ask 3 times are we ready to order. We finally order and eat everything seems great. We walk back to the boardwalk and we walk and talk good eye contact when we stop and talk. My attention was focused on her we start walking again I offer her my arm. She took it in a firm way like she wanted it I'm sporting her down the boards. All of a sudden she pulls away and says this is hard. I don't react to this and keep walking as we walk she keeps bumping into me like she is being pulled into me. She said she was sorry I said not a big deal you can bump into me anytime. Conversation is still flowing things seem to be ok with me.

Well she wanted to see my truck ok we walk to it sit inside. It's an Envoy SLT loaded she was worried about getting it wet. I told her it's been wet before got a towel so she could dry her feet. This is where shit went bad she started unloading on me about her x. Being a kind man I listened to her and agreed that her x was a fraud that's on him not you. Then it got worse I had to here about her first love a player that turned into a cross dresser who would not answer her calls. She gets a text thank goodness my opportunity to end this very nicely on a good note. I told her look we have spent 4 hours talking that was quick. I'm sure your hit squad is wondering if she is ok time to get you home. I walked her to her car thanked her for her time got a good close hug from her. Told her to text me if she wanted go out and do what ever she said ok. She got what she wanted a man to dump her shit on. Me I got to go play on the strip with 21 yr olds and had a great time. All in all it was worth the 3 hr.trip just to explore her beach the night was epic.

Here is what I don't understand How can someone live in a big beautiful sandbox and refuse to play in it cause you ain't that fuckin old.

KnitterQueen's picture

Militarybrat, that sounds awful. You seem to be in need of some good scripts, scripts that stop her dumping on you and that get her in a positive mood. I think she would have preferred that, as well. I’m not sure, is there an article on GC about breaking a woman’s frame if she is stuck in the mode of “we’re playing psychologist to each other and each of us in turn gets to tell sad victim stories about our past”?

KnitterQueen's picture

Dear T, my point is not that those older women say: “show me what you got to woo me, boyo”. In that case, all your remarks would apply. My point is that fully half of women over 50 opt out of relationships ENTIRELY. While only a third of men seem to do so. For moving in together, the (surveyed) stats are even more skewed. Apparently, relationships with men cost women over 50 more then they are worth, to them. I can think of a few of those costs, like having to care for a guy with a shorter life ecpectancy; or losing your home or widow’s pension if moving in. Those costs can probably not be reduced easily. But how can they be offset?

T's picture

Ok KnitterQueen,

normally I don't answer a second time but this case is too interresting for me :-).

Yes men have a shorter expectancy of life. That's simply fact. But that is in our genes and nothing you can change.
So if that is a problem for 50% of these women than you are right. They should opt out. Stay away from older men. Period. But that is something for a man to come in terms with. And my thinking is more to show men how to do that rather then to convince a woman of their fitness what most likely won't work.

But what do you mean by "having to care for a guy"? Normally men between 50 and 65 (lets take this age group) have often good jobs but even if not: in most cases at least enough money to care for themselves (at least here where I live). If you mean that men become more often a nursing case because of a heart attack or stroke you are also right. But also here: that is nothing you can change (you can minimize the chance by a healthy life). Again for women: opt out and stay away and/or look for younger men.

Concernig the widows pension you are also right. Apart from that you don't have to moving in and how many of the 50 and above women are widows? But thats a matter of law. And also nothing a man can change. Ok, yes thats a point to reflect as a woman. But I have never heard that someone loses her home if moving in at least not here where I live.

So my the second excerpt is answered. But I am still bothered by ""For those readers, it might be beneficial to ask themselves what they have to offer to their female counterparts. How they can convince them that they have to offer more then they cost her."

If all the above is true there is in my opinion the only one way to come along with that and "convince" a woman is a contract with a lot of "ifs". But here we are again dangerous close to the nice guy/.../.../ corner.
(Yes it would be cool to hear the opinion of Chase or one of his guys here).

In the end I stick to my guns: If chemistry is there i'ts my experience that she doesn't care and both will find a way. And if not, well perhaps we have to accept that there is no solution for this gap (at least in most cases).

T.

militarybrat51's picture

This is not the first I have encountered this, it is quite common. I knew it was coming when she dropped my arm and said this is hard. Up until this point she was smiling and quite engaging I thought wow I would like to date her to see where things go. In my experience it is very rare to hit things off the way we did like a matched pair.

When she asked to see my truck then got in and sat down in a semi private quiet place. I figured time to move things forward kiss her caress her face get her on a date and seduce her, The little guy in the back of my head kicked me and said she dropped your arm be ready the little bastard was right.

I am very good at calibrating to the moment my scripts are natural and very seductive. The first thing I do is set a fun relaxed vibe very positive frame. This is only speculation on my part I believe she got scared and pushed me away very hard because of what the other 2 men did.

It is very difficult to date women over 50 because of crap like this, it comes up quite often. They have a good man with them, wanting to move forward in life with them and they push him away. Here is a quote that is my perspective on this encounter "Fear is the mind killer it is the little death that brings about total obliteration" How to break through this fear is beyond me.

Brat

KnitterQueen's picture

Hi T,

The life expectancy/care thing is of course not urgent for the 50-70 aged group but becomes more pressing with advanced age. And, maybe coincidentally, the gap widens above 67 ( retirement age over here) between the number of women and men surveyed, saying they are interested in relationships/moving in together. So are the men telling the truth and are the women in auto-rejection? Or are the women truthful when they say they are afraid to be "saddled with more care work". ?

If they are truthful, then I see only a few realistic options. The first is that the 50 % of older men who have most to offer, make off with either younger women, or with the older women still interested in relationships. And the rest, both women and men, stay single. And, as you say, they both learn how to have peace with that, come to terms with that. Maybe GC can help with that.

The second option is that older men improve their game to rouse their female counterparts out of their romantic/sexual "sleep". My question is: besides the normal game taught here on GC, are there any specific issues with seducing women over 50, over 60, 70 crowd?

T, y ou mention that even the young-older group ( 50 to 60 IS young ;) can have sudden issues with health, and that might scare off women. That might be true, but I don't think that becomes a real issue until after retirement. If health seems an issue, I'd say what helps is educating both groups of the facts: the odds of getting a stroke are very small and are even smaller if you live healthy. https://www.webmd.com/stroke/ss/slideshow-cut-stroke-odds In fact: women have just as much heart attacks as men but they present in a very different way. https://www.goredforwomen.org/en So, health probably is not that much of an issue for the 50-65 cohort in most cases ( and that is good to know and make sure the women know it) .
But I think income is more of a problem.

Not the guys income - but the womens'income. Many women of that age have small incomes. If the income is alimony or a widows pension or social security or a disability - then she loses that income if she moves in with a guy. She might even lose it if she has a relationship without movign in together. And if she moves out, she won't get that income back. So she loses her independence - likely permanently. if she lives in social housing projects and vacates her place, she loses that house as well. But that might be more of a problem in the Neteherlands. This problem of losing independence, I think, is the real problem. A guy dating such a woman can't solve that problem. As for what he could do - that is the question, no?

I can't speak for the hormonal side of things - AFAIK, it is not quite clear what menopause does to a womans sex drive. Studies say it differs form woman to woman. https://www.healthline.com/health/menopause/menopause-libido I often hear that vaginal lubricant can help a LOT and that is is used far too little because of the embarrassment factor in buying and applying it. Guys could help in normalizing that, just like women can help men with the embarrassment of erectile disorder. With age, there is an increasing likelihood of (temporary) erectile dysfunction ( 4 % in men aged 40 and 15 % in men aged 70). https://web.archive.org/web/20210125042332/https://www.uwhealth.org/urol...
The sad thing is, if only couples could talk to each other about such things without shame and get educated about possible treatments and creative roundabouts.... Most men would rather buy (fake) viagra from some shady Chinese webshop then just man up, go to their doctor, and get a prescription for the real stuff, and have their sex life back. I speak from experience.
And besides viagra/cialis, there's prostate orgasms that don't require an erection at all, https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/prostate-orgasm#overview . And there's tantric whole body orgasms for women AND men that also don't require an erect penis https://www.healthline.com/health/tantric-masturbation#How-to-perform-ta... - Really, erectile disorder could be a great way to force a couple to get REALLY creative. learn this stuff, and have the best sex of their lives. Education here could help both sexes.

Knitter Queen's picture

Military brat, you mention that women over 50 often have more baggage - that perhaps the odds of them having dents and scratches is just bigger the longer they have lived. That is true - but it is also true that many woman and men become wiser. and happier. In fact, that is the norm. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/may/05/happiness-curve-lif...

One of the perks of getting older is that you can tell much more from a face. People who laugh, get laugh lines in their faces - people who frown, get frown lines. We get the face we deserve, in a way, so others can better read us.

I doubt the problems you mention are specific to older women. But I am sure that it is not encouraging for you to believe it is, no?

KnitterQueen's picture

T, you are right; chemistry on a date conquers most objections on both sides. The difficulty is probably to get these women on a date. What Chase said about the downsides of dating women on dating sites and the perks of meeting them in day game probably applies far more strongly with this age group. So the quenstion becomes, how do you meet a woman romantically and hter her to date you, a woman who does not consider dating "something she does, anymore"? I suspect an adapted version of day game and adapted recommended places to meet such women is needed. Also, I think meeting them through mutual contacts is often the way to go, but I may be wrong and just repeating an image I got from movies. ;)

To summarize myself, I'd say the specific adapatations needed to succesfully date older women are;
1. Be aware that women up untill 44 may be really interested in becoming mothers;
2. Be aware that many women ( except cougars, if those really exist) are very hesitant and yet maybe some are interested in dating a guy more then 5 years younger. Most internet fluff articles on "dating older women"is either written to pander to these women, or they are about the dynamic of a 20 something guy and a 30-40 something woman. As Chase said 30-40 yea old guys ar usually interested in starting a family with a woman their age or younger. But for men over 45 and women over 45, how the dynamics work when there is an age difference, I have no idea. In general relationships between older women and ( up until 12 year younger men) are more successful then average, but I suspect that is because they are not obvious and therefore more consciously chosen.

So, women up untill 45 have no time to waste but may wnat to start a family and are quite fierce in looking for a mate to do so'

Women aged 45-retirement age (65 who have a job AND care duties, and are financially independent often have a serious time shortage that may make them hesitant to date if the need for it was not so strong in the first place;

Women over 55 -70 who are no longer working and are not financially independent often have a lot to lose if they get in a relationship with or move in with a guy; often they say they are done caring for anyone; they cut their hair short, start wearing sexless clothes, and plan hikes and city trips with girlfriends...

Women and men over 70.. I think the previous patterns apply right up until health problems become a serious issue and, after that, what patters develop? One of the patterns is increased sexual activity in assisted living communities, where men outnumber women and meeting each other is easy. STD's are decreasing in every age group except the over 65 crowd. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/refire-don-t-retire/201507/new-r...

militarybrat51's picture

What I am encountering is anger and resentment of others causing fear of intimacy. I'm a cold approach guy walking my dog yielded more meet and greets than anything else. He was a beautiful black dog that was a hottie magnet. Just because he is gone does not mean I have to be angry or resentful of others nor fear intimacy.

Life is a meat grinder I have been chewed up and spit out a few times. I have a train load of baggage that stays parked in the train yard where it belongs. I carry the lessons of what not to do with me it makes me a better,happier man. I start every morning with this quote: "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love".

Thanks Knitter your thoughts on dating older women have opened my eyes on why it is difficult to date older women. Now I can formulate and test different ways to open the door or kick it in to seduce the women I prefer.

Brat

KnitterQueen's picture

Thank you Militarybrat, and if you find useful tips and tricks come back and share :)

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