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Yesterday I responded to a post on our forum about succeeding with girls in the 19- to 23-years-old range from a guy in his mid-30s who noted he does fine with women over 23 but struggles to get anywhere with younger gals. I wanted to flesh this one out a bit more and make it a proper post.
If you’ve been following the site for a while, you probably remember I tackled younger women in this post, about three years ago (has it been that long? Wow...):
“Attracting and Dating Younger Women”
However, that was a more involved post, with a lot of research, psychology, explanation, and discussion of not only the initial seduction but the ongoing relationship too.
This post will be a more tactical one, and one specifically aimed at how to pick up younger women, particularly in the late teens / early 20s age range that’s so easy for some guys... and so problematic for others.
Comments
Questions
Hey Chase,
First thing I should note is that I am a guy in this age range (22 atm. Will graduate college soon). Is this article intended specifically for men who are older, or do the same tactics work for anyone?
Additionally, I've noticed that a lot of these young girls (particularly the ones in the 18-20 age range) are terrible at one on one conversations. Most of them are used to socializing in groups and meeting guys through their social circle. So when I get them out on a one on one date, it seems that despite their best efforts, they aren't very good at keeping a conversation going. Oftentimes, their answers will be brief and factual, even when I ask open ended questions. Needless to say, this often leads to very boring and stale dates.
Any advice on how to have deeper more emotionally charged conversations?
What Age, What Date
Anon-
Yep, works just the same whether you’re 19 or 49!
If you can (particularly if you’re in college), I recommend you use hang out dates whenever possible:
How to Hang Out with a Girl (and End Up in Bed Together)
Traditional dates where you sit around and get to know each other can be tougher with younger girls. Another alternative is dates where you’re somewhat active, like taking her to the arcade, Dave & Buster’s, a comedy show, etc., something where you can have fun and get her blood pumping, and that makes for an easy environment to joke around with her and get physical in.
This is also why younger girls often drink so much – they have a lot of social anxiety, aren’t very good at holding conversation yet, and haven’t lived enough to have much of a past to dig into when you deep dive. Still, better if you can meet them on soberer terms and create the disinhibition yourself, through flirting, banter, movement, leadership, and intimacy.
Chase
Dates
Think you could make a quick example on dates for ages?
like where to take girls 18-22, 22-25, 25-30, 30-40, 40-50 etc.
And then the age range for guys that should do that type of date?
like a 22-29 yr old will go here, a 30 year old will go here, 40-etc will take her here.
also, with how things r with paying, I still get waitresses making comments about me not paying and it just is a bad look.
How do you stop the girls from feeling entitled to be paid for? like a girl might say she she won't see me again if I don't pay or she won't go out with me if I don't pay. How can you just get off of that?
thanks
Dates, Value
SZ-
Younger girls, go for hang out dates or try to do something a little more active – arcades, Dave & Buster’s, comedy show, etc. Walks by the beach, ice cream, these can be okay too. If she’s more mature you can do coffee dates or drinks (over 21).
From about 23 or 24 on up, you’re fine with standard date plans (café, coffee shop, dive bar, park, window shopping in the mall, etc.).
If girls are telling you they won’t see you again if you don’t pay, your value’s just too low (value imbalance). Improve your fundamentals and game, and you’ll stop getting this.
Chase
No wonder / Proper delivery / Polite conversation
Hey Chase,
Thanks for the insight.
No wonder I suck with girls my age.
Trying to employ deep diving, and chase framing, only to find nothing there (they tell you but there isn't really anything that exciting).
And when I share my passion to travel, they usually can't relate.
However, when you told me to stop deep diving and try small talk for awhile, all of a sudden, the girls I talk to were having a good time. Small talk about random stuff and teasing led to their stories, and from that, I could bring out more!
Turns out, almost all women I approach were the same bracket.
It all makes sense.
Re: Proper delivery
You said that no matter what opener, as long as it's delivered properly, it will work.
I've been troubleshooting my openings, What is considered proper delivery?
List of Guidelines or articles would help!
Yes, I know, I'm detail-oriented
Specifically for me at this moment,
From socializing, I realize sometimes it's possible to come off too strong, for girls or guy friends. They always feel something must be earned from you, otherwise you come off too strong and they worry you're a social burden and run away.
I'm still trying to figure this out by adjust a couple things here and there.
Hoping to get it right in the middle.
As you can see, too little will be not showing interest and nothing will happen; showing too much and they run away and think it's weird (men too, probably thinks I'm gay ;))
At times, when I banter and such with guys, they give me a silly smile with raised eyebrows ("that was silly" social cue). Still working on that one.
Re: Past polite conversation with colleagues
Work has been pretty much stuck on work related.
Since we're working, much of the conversation consists of short comments and done about work.
I feel that as time pass, we (me and colleagues) still won't be that close.
Currently, it feels something is blocking (and it could be myself with the topics I talk about - work), but at the same time, interactions happen during work when we're working so can't talk much. But then I see other colleagues getting friendly with each other. Seems like I'm the only one out of the loop.
So I'm curious, how can we develop closer relationship/friends, get past the barrier, in this situation and under a short time (instead of letting it "just happen" and people serendipitously get closer after YEARS of being together)?
Essentially, we're cutting out all the crap that doesn't make us closer, and keeping all the necessary experiences to get us closer is my question.
Anyway, that's the new update about me. How have you been, Chase?
Which country are you exploring now?
Best,
Lawliet
Delivery, Friends
Lawliet-
Glad to hear it, man. Sometimes all it takes it a little tweak!
Proper delivery is a million different nuances all coming together at once. Impossible to describe in text. Check out these articles for movie examples:
Friends are the same as girls. Get them to open up to you, you open up to them, you share a bunch of experiences, and then boom, close connection. Doesn’t work without those things. Check these out for starters (or a refresher):
As for younger girls, yes – they need a more obvious approach, as discussed in the article. Older women prefer more subtlety. Adjust for the audience!
Chase
Young Women vs. Mature Women
I wanted to add that, if it wasn't your post, I wouldn't have realized that part of the reason it didn't turn out, was calibration toward women in different ages.
Thanks!
But I also want to know more about game with young women vs. older women differences. I suspect the Dumb girls article has some parallels on that topic.
Now correct me if I'm wrong (don't hesitate, more direct, the better), I think younger women seduction works with a more laughing, funny (but not clowny) style of game, as opposed to older women (who seek more connection).
Asshole humor, cooperative humor, you name it!
"Making women laugh means nothing", sure alone it does not, but what if you add "laughter" with "pull and closing"? And that's what I suspect is the case for younger women.
An elaboration on the different style for young vs. old would be great!
Along with that legendary witty banter article too ;)
Can't wait for your "Girls leader and follower" sequel too
Lawliet
Dude you need to chill a bit.
Dude you need to chill a bit. I get that you are just trying to better yourself and that's great but since you started writing these huge comments to chase he has stopped responding to all comments. I think you should post this stuff in the forums for feedback. If you want my two cents it sounds like you probably come across with your coworkers like you do on here as in too much, too strong, overbearing etc. My advice is relax, stop thinking so much, not everything is a situation to analyze and manipulate. Try being yourself, genuine and chill, works wonders for me.
What you write rings true
What you write rings true with my limited experience in that age range. I just wasn`t able figure out a solution. I guess the younger you are, the more you are defined by how you react to things in the moment and less by the choices you have already made in the past.
So basicly give her a chance to prove herself in action and enjoy the process together.
Looking forward to test your advice.
Best regards!
Thanks Diggsss
Thank you for your concern, Diggsss.
I do admit I can get carried away at times when talking about social. As I talk about it, I find myself writing more stuff on it and thoughts keep popping up. I think no one thinks more about it than I do! With that said, thanks for the reminder before I type up articles for this site ;)
As for not to encumber Chase with my comments, we have discussed this between us and come to terms. If I do get carried away (it happens), he can feel free to select certain points to address or completely skip the comment if he's too busy.
If none, that's understandable. After all, he doesn't owe us anything. He doing us all a favour by giving out advice to help us, any amount is bonus!
Cheers,
Lawliet
Chase
Chase, is it me or do women get somewhat successful easy?
I mean, I know I few women who are in their early 20s and they all have manager positions or they have a good job and only have finished a year or two of school.
I've noticed that girls get jobs easier as well, I guy could wait for ever to find a job, while a girl has one in line all of the time.
While guys I know around their early 20s are not.
Even a litter older all I here is that this girl has this job and it's a great job while the guy has a worse one.
Are girls more hard working and ambitious than guys now?
do they get more jobs because they are girls?
or am I wrong?
what is it?
Women and Getting/Staying Hired
Anon-
Women in their 20s earn 8% more than men, at least in the U.S.:
Workplace Salaries: At Last, Women on Top
I can tell you anecdotally, in most professional fields, a capable woman is a sought-after commodity… I would suspect due to diversity reasons. Women tend to drop out of the workforce in large numbers once they start having children, and big corporations need to keep a certain number of female employees on hand to shield them from discrimination suits.
So yeah. I can attest… I used to do business consulting, and of all the young women I worked with, two were real go-getters who would go wherever the company went and do whatever the company required, while the rest would kick up bloody hell if the company wanted them to do anything they didn’t want to do. Meanwhile, even the most lethargic of my young male colleagues would bite the bullet and go where the company sent him. I suspect the girls knew they were somewhat protected, so the only ones who put the extra effort in were the ones who really were hardcore career women. The guys, on the other hand, knew they were a lot more expendable, or perhaps they just wanted to make extra sure they didn’t lose their jobs.
There’s another aspect to job retention, too: I noticed when I was working that my female colleagues were excellent at taking small, insignificant assignments and making their roles sound pivotal and their schedules packed. Office jobs are one part work, one part politics, and women tend to knock the politics part out of the park. Even if her role isn’t the most important, she makes it SEEM important, and that keeps her employed. Lots of guys aren’t nearly so adept at keeping up appearances.
Women are also better at job interviews than men are. They come across more confidently, more capable, and in my experience (having done my fair share of hiring) often have more/better/stronger references and a résumé that’s better optimized and looks more impressive.
Women too are much better networkers. If a girl doesn’t have a job, she will work her network to find one. Men seem to try to go it alone a lot more often.
That’d be my read. Girls are better networkers, better interviewers, better at office politics, and companies want to keep them more and not drop too low on their diversity quotas. So you get a range of influences that keep women pretty well represented from the ground level up to about middle management.
There’s plenty to learn there though, too. I spent a fair amount of time hanging out with one of my go-getter female colleagues and watching how she networked and worked her connections – made me a far better networker. Girls are very good at what they do.
Chase
Making Money
I have read your posts on the forums about making money now, and I must say I am a bit lost.
I can't get a stem degree like you recommend and I can't really get a degree close to that because I am beyond horrible at math, seriously. So I pretty much had to choose something different.
with that out of the way, I can't find a job, I don't have any skill set what so ever, I am extremely lost right now and I need to get a better job than retail.
I would love to start somewhere and build up, but every damn job wants you to have 2 years experience, I can't even find the jobs where you start off.
I'm too old to be working retail, I need a real job, but with no skill and no experience. I have nothing and don't know where to start.
Chase, do you have any suggestions for me?
Re: Making Money
Anon-
Here are all my suggestions on making money:
Chase
Not taking everything seriously
I was wondering if you could give quick tips or make an article about me not making everything such a huge big serious deal? I want the ability when I think of bad thoughts or memories I just shooo them away without a bat of an eyelash, when I think of failures, I just laugh about it and move on my day. Instead what I do is just think about it constantly over and over and it makes me depressed or if I fail at something and someone makes fun of it, in my mind and while showing it, I want to let them know it doesn't bother me and I will make them look like a fool for even trying to make fun of me.
I don't want to be this person that always dwells on the negative, I want to get rid of my bad feelings with ease, I don't want it to borther me anymore. I just want to shoo it away like a pest and move on with my day.
also do you think you can make an article to achieve mindfulness?
thanks
Thought Control
SZ-
Read this article. Follow it exactly. Do it until it sticks:
Chase
Teachers
Chase can you explain why all of these teachers are sleeping with their teen students? what is going on with the? They ruin their careers and lives for that? I can never understand the logic.
Question
Chase,
Much needed article on here, and you've performed once again. I feel like many guys on here are targeting this age bracket ;)
Being an 18 year-old myself, I've noticed this process works well even if the girl is my age or older (say 19-20). Would you recommend any tweaks to the approach if the girl is still in this age group, but slightly older than you?
Thanks
BMD
My bad
My bad, realised this has already been addressed!
Just my two cents as a 21
Just my two cents as a 21 year old girl... I find the opposite is true, at least for me. I like making connections, actually having enthralling conversations, and can’t stand asshole humor. It’s never gotten any guy anywhere with me... especially if it’s too sexual, and too direct. I think most of us get the signals just fine, we just aren’t interested in reciprocating them. We are much more aware than given credit for!
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