Frames & Frame Control, Simply Explained

I started a thread on our forum asking members what concepts in seduction they struggled to grasp. One that came up repeatedly was about frames: frame control, frame grabbing, and simply frames themselves.

Frame is a key concept in pickup. Like all concepts, you don’t have to technically understand the concept to figure out how to do it. A lot of naturals are frame control masters who would not know what you were talking about (at least at first) if you started telling them they had ironclad, magnetic ‘frames’.

To help you really grasp what frames are and how to use them, we’re going to take a closer look at this powerful-but-abstract psychological concept.

 

Frame’s Origin in NLP

While the term ‘frame’ has been used in psychological literature going back decades, its use in seduction descends from how the concept developed within neurolinguistic programming (NLP). Most casual seduction students today are unfamiliar with NLP, except perhaps in some hoary lore of the pickup of bygone days, but it’s important to remember the modern pickup community (which is where this site originated) began with NLP.

In NLP, one’s ‘frame’ is simply one’s way of viewing (at an internal level) or presenting (at an external level) a person or situation.

In the media, this is called ‘spin’ – and in a great many cases, the spin you put on things is MORE IMPORTANT than the facts!

If you and I are talking about seduction, and you’re new to the whole thing and try to tell me, “Well, I think seduction is wrong, because it manipulates women, and plus it violates God’s law,” that is the frame/perspective/spin you hold coming in. Most likely, you are judging me and viewing me as a purveyor of evil and deceit, for teaching this wrongheaded, manipulative skillset that goes against the Word. That, too, is part of your frame/perspective/spin.

However, I have heard all these arguments and many others before. This is the most popular seduction website on the planet; 64 million people have visited this website, and many tens of thousands of them have shared their various perspectives. Your frame/perspective/spin is not new to me, does not shake me, nor am I going to switch my frame to it simply because you expressed it to me.

My frame/perspective/spin is that calling seduction ‘manipulative’ tells me you don’t know what you’re talking about. My frame/perspective/spin is also that calling seduction a violation of God’s law means you have a lot to learn about the world God created and even many of His greatest saints and prophets.

As we talk about it, we are going to display our frames, construct arguments around them, and opine with passion for our frames or against our opponent’s. We are each going to put our spin on things. As you argue that seduction is wrong for the reasons you believe it is, and I retort that it is right, for the reasons I believe it is, we are engaged in what is called a ‘frame battle’. If you and I were members of the media, we might say we are putting conflicting spins on things; if you were judging us, you might say we are biased in certain ways.

NLP teaches practitioners various ways to set and lead the frames of others. In fact, one might say that NLP is all about frames: creating them, setting them, reinforcing them. Skirting around unhelpful frames that others possess. Bringing someone into your world.

Recently in another article I posted a video of Ross Jeffries (the originator of Speed Seduction, an NLP seduction method; essentially the founder of the modern seduction community) giving a conference to men. I hope you got to see it because unfortunately it looks like that video has been taken down.

In case you did not catch it, Ross used NLP directly on the classroom itself. He stands up in front of the class and repeatedly states that “this is NOT a classroom and I am NOT a teacher.” Why does he keep saying that? In NLP, you learn that the mind does not process ‘not’. When you hear “not a classroom” what the mind actually hears is “classroom”, and when you hear “not a teacher” what the mind actually hears is “teacher.”

Another thing you learn in NLP is the repetition of frames: if you want someone to believe something, just keep restating it. The more repetition there is of the frame, the deeper you implant the suggestion.

By Ross continually stating that it is not a classroom and he is not a teacher, he is setting the frame for the attendees to view the room as INDEED a classroom, and Jeffries as INDEED a teacher.

This is framing, as taught in NLP.

 

She Wants a Man Capable of Sucking Her Into His Frame

Many free-ranging animals use various displays of color, ornamentation, song, and dance to attract mates. In group-living animals, mating is typically done by rank within the group, so less ostentation is needed. If you are not dating from within a social circle, you cannot rely on rank to bring you women, and so you must rely on display to seduce.

Human beings do not rely on ornamentation, song, dance, or fancy homes nearly as much in attracting mates as other animals in the animal kingdom do. Instead, we use conversation, and in particular, flirtation.

READ MORE: Sexual Selection and the Power of Fitness Indicators

One powerful way we men seduce women is by sucking them into our frames.

Imagine the average working woman at the end of the workday. She’s single, the economy’s getting worse, she’s struggling to pay rent and put food on the table, she has less discretionary spending than ever. Her best friend just got into a new relationship and isn’t around to go out anymore, and she’s just started realizing how alone she really is. She’s flirting with the beginning of a depression.

You meet her at a happy hour after office hours and the LAST thing she is thinking about is men. Her mind is on her cares. You approach her, and she chats for a minute or two, then apologizes to you: “Sorry, I’m not very good company right now. I’ve just got too much on my mind.”

That is her frame: that she is not good company, that she is overburdened, and that she really does not have the time or energy to deal with socializing right now.

How do you respond to her frame?

 

How Average Men Respond to Women’s Frames

An average guy might give up here, or he might try to tell her to turn that frown upside down. Either way, he is unlikely to be able to change her frame. ULTIMATELY, he will probably ACCEPT her frame – that she is, in fact, not good company, overburdened, and asocial.

Their conversation will go something like this:

HIM: How’s it going, why so glum?

HER: Oh, it’s just been a long week.

HIM: Well, the workday’s over and it’s time for fun. Let’s celebrate!

HER: [polite smile]

HIM: Where’s your work at, anyway?

HER: I work at Ridgeline Associates downtown.

HIM: Oh, that place is posh. You’re doing well for yourself!

HER: Yeah… [unconvinced tone]

HIM: I’m here with some of my coworkers. We’re having a blast. You should come join us. It’ll lift your mood.

HER: Sorry, I’m just not good company right now. You go on ahead.

HIM: You just need to get in the right spirits. Drowning your sorrows at the bar won’t do it!

HER: [shakes head] I just need some space right now. Thank you.

HIM: Okay, well if you change your mind we’re right over there!

HER: [polite smile]

When this guy returns to his coworkers and they ask him how it went with that girl, he’s probably going to tell them something along the lines of, “She’s in a down mood right now and doesn’t want to talk to anyone.”

She kept her frame, and in the end, he accepted her frame.

This man will not get the lay.

 

How Seducers Respond to Women’s Frames

A seducer responds in a DIFFERENT way to a woman’s unhelpful frames.

A seducer is a lot less likely to accept such unhelpful frames as this girl’s.

HIS frame by default is something along the lines of “girls are silly and cute.”

In this girl’s case, he is going to look at her situation, and he is going to see this:

This girl is living a comfortable life, working some job she doesn’t really have to work (if she was REALLY desperate, she’d go get a MAN!), stressing herself out over her First World Problems. She’s not starving to death. She’s not dying of plague. If she just shambled in out of some war-torn hellhole she’d probably think her current life was paradise.

So really, she is just being a goof.

He does not take her concerns seriously. He knows they are serious to HER, and he is not DISRESPECTFUL of that. But he also knows that shaking her out of the mood she’s in is probably doable (and also will be good for her).

To do that, he is going to need to take her OUT of her frame (“I’m not good company right now”) and pull her into HIS frame (which is something like “This girl IS good company because she’s a fun, silly, cute girl to talk to and we get along so well!”).

Here’s what that could look like:

HIM: You are having way too much fun over here.

HER: [polite smile]

HIM: [sidles up next to her] You know what I love about this place? You can meet anybody here. Last week I had drinks with a C-tier Hollywood actor and a random homeless guy.

HER: [laugh] Wow, really?

HIM: Oh yeah. This week has been pretty tame by comparison.

HER: I’m sorry I missed last week.

HIM: There’s always next time. What’s that you’re drinking, pure vodka?

HER: [laughs] No it’s a gin and tonic.

HIM: Well, we’ve all got to start somewhere. No friends with you tonight?

HER: Just me.

HIM: Awesome. I hate crowds. My coworkers are over there but I had to get away for a minute. You’re kind of a nice change of pace.

HER: Really?

HIM: Oh yeah. A real breath of fresh air. You’re chill. I really like that.

HER: [brushes hair back] So where do you work at?

HIM: Well we all just came from this job site over on Tinpot Road. We do security installations. You know, keeping bad guys out of places. I like it because I get to think like a bad guy. “What would I do if I wanted to break in?”

HER: That sounds kind of cool.

HIM: It is, you know? So like let’s say you were a bad guy wanting to break into this bar when it was closed. What’s the first thing you would do?

HER: [laughs] I don’t know. See if the door’s unlocked?

HIM: [nodding] You’ve done some breaking and entering, haven’t you?

HER: [laughs] I have not!

HIM: Are you sure?

HER: [laughs] I swear!

HIM: Okay, well… [conversation continues]

At this point, if we paused the conversation to interview the girl, and asked her if she thinks she is “not good company” right now, do you still think she would say yes?

Or do you think she would say that she is having a fun conversation, that she thinks the guy she is talking to is enjoying talking to her too, and that she is actually “pretty good company” right now?

This is frame control. You have pulled her OUT of her prior frame (“I’m not good company right now”) and into YOUR frame (“the two of us are having an excellent time”).

This guy, if he keeps it up, and continues pushing things forward with her, might just get the lay.

 

She Wants a CAPABLE Man

So why didn’t she just let Mr. Average Guy change her frame for her?

Well, for one thing, HE COULDN’T. He did not know how. He was incapable of it.

Men with weak frames and poor frame control are not capable of changing a woman’s frame. Even if she wants them to do it!

Think about yourself some time you were depressed. Maybe you didn’t want to be depressed. Now imagine I walked up to you and said, “Hey buddy, it’s time to stop being depressed! Time to be happy now! We’re all having fun now, so chin up!”

Perhaps you appreciated that I was trying to be nice. But probably, I did not change your frame. You are still depressed. Even though you would like to change frames, and even though I tried to change your frame, your frame does not change, because I tried to change it in a way that does not work.

A girl who is bored, or depressed, or low energy, or not horny is not capable of changing her mood instantly on a whim. She also cannot change it just because someone asks her to. She must be led into it by someone capable of helping her change her frame.

It is the same with a woman who is spouting off some unhelpful frame toward seduction:

• “Men are all pigs!”
• “The only thing guys want is sex!”
• “Men have no standards!”
• “I’m done with meaningless hookups!”
• “I never have sex on the first night!”

Et cetera.

If she likes you, some part of you is hoping you can change her frame. But if you are not capable of doing it, her frame is going to remain in place – and you won’t get the lay.

Her frame is the spin she puts on the world, the lens she is viewing you and events and herself through.

If you want her to change her behavior, you must get her to change her frame first – into one conducive to whatever behavior you want to lead her to. You must change the spin she puts things on, the lens she views things through – you must get her to see things different and feel differently about herself and you.

Women like this. They are ATTRACTED to it. They find men capable of frame controlling them very powerful.

This is a very attractive thing to women. Most men cannot do it with them.

 

Getting Good at Frame Control

A master at frame control is really just someone with a rock-solid view of HIMSELF, OTHER PEOPLE, AND THE WORLD to the point where that is not really shakable, and also to the point where he projects it so convincingly that everyone around him ends up sucked into his way of seeing things. He is also charming enough that people find his frames enticing.

As an example, you’re probably pretty straight (I assume. I mean, maybe you aren’t. But statistically you probably are). Imagine you are a totally straight man. Now imagine you meet an absolutely FASCINATING guy who is really cool and fun to talk to, a really great conversationalist, and at some point he brings up the topic of sexuality and starts talking about how everyone’s sexuality at its core is fluid. You try to deny this but he keeps going, making his case:

If everyone is really 100% straight there’s no way a guy could masturbate into his own hand or a sock. A hand or a sock is not a vagina. What about guys who have sex with sheep and goats? Those guys probably didn’t grow up horny for goat poon. They were lonely and horny and at one point started thinking about, “What if I stuck my dong in a goat?” What about dudes who get into transsexuals? A lot of these guys are guys who went too deep into porn and at some point asked themselves, “What if?”

At some point you are going to have to concede that sexuality is probably fluid to some extent or other – especially if this guy is really cool and you like talking to him and you don’t want to argue. If this guy is actually gay or bisexual, he’s now created his first opening to getting your cock in his mouth.

I’ve heard stories from guys numerous times (one posted on our forum about it) about how a guy picked them up running game like this. Guys who’ve said they normally never look at men, never think about men, and have not had a sexual encounter with a man before or since. But that one time, with that one guy running masterful frame control, they decided, “What the heck, why not?” and ended up doing a dude.

(the fact that frame control is capable of being used to seduce men, and not just women, is one of those things that makes you wonder even more about human mental evolution. Is it a side effect of selecting for brains that deal in frames or is there an evolutionary reason – e.g., social cohesion – that would make men need to be susceptible to frame control as well? I suspect a mixture of both)

Men who are good at frame control can be REALLY good at it.

Humbly, I am skilled at frame control. When I am ‘on’ I can pull women into completely different frames from where they started out at. Completely different.

READ MORE: How to Get Girls Who Seem Closed Off or Impossible

Part of it is having a CLEAR idea of what you WANT to be true, about yourself and other people.

This is the seed of frame control. If you are unsure, indecisive, prone to waffling, frame control is much harder, because your frame is unstable. You need to figure out what you’re about: your purpose, your mission, what you believe, who you are as a man.

As a general rule, the stronger, sturdier frame (NOT the most correct or accurate frame) wins.

 

Learning SEDUCTIVE Frame Control

When it comes to women, part of frame control (aside from clear ideas and a smattering of charm) is also simply having sufficient sexual success. As you bed more women, you become increasingly certain about what women really want and who they are underneath the hood.

This is also why prostitution, gold diggers, and crazy chicks are so risky for men, because they give men vastly different experiences and hence different underlying frames about what women want (frames not so conducive to regular seductions).

You do not get good seductive frame control by arguing with women. I have seen red pill guys going out to bars and getting into debates with women about female nature. That is not seductive frame control; that is argumentation. Seductive frame control is the ability to PULL HER INTO your frame WITHOUT triggering heaps of argument and resistance.

Imagine two men meeting a woman at a bar who tells them that men oppress women with their sexuality. Each of the two men responds differently.

• MAN A: “Actually, women are the oppressive sex. It’s women who hold all the keys to sex. Women exile entire swaths of men from even having sex at all, a basic need, turning these guys into incels. Then they heap scorn on these men and call them creeps. Meanwhile they throw pussy at Chad, then complain when they find out he’s fucking five other girls. Then they go and castigate lower SMV men as if it was those men fucking around on them instead of Chad. Women are the most oppressive sex ever.”

That’s one way to respond to this “men oppress with sexuality” girl. But now here’s another:

• MAN B: “I’ve always viewed sexuality as something shared between men and women, like a kind of yin and yang. When one sex pursues sex, the other retreats and plays coy. When one dangles it a little to feel more powerful, the other gives chase. And it isn’t always one sex or the other. Sometimes women get horny and throw themselves at guys, and it’s the guys who need to retreat a little bit. ‘Whoa, hey, let me get to know you a bit before we get to that, okay?’ I’ll bet you’ve been the sexual aggressor at least once. If not in a bar, I’ll bet you had a boyfriend you jumped on when the poor guy was just trying to play X-Box! That poor, poor man…”

Both of these men exhibit ‘frame control’, except one (Guy A) is only good at scoring points and getting hurrahs from onlookers – meanwhile, the other (Guy B) SEDUCES.

(in case you were not paying attention, Guy B pulled this girl into a chase frame. He went from her framing men as sexually oppressive to him framing women as sexual aggressors. THAT is frame control)

Guy A will not get laid. He’ll probably make this girl despise him. She is going to feel ‘oppressed’ by his argument and become even stauncher in her “men are oppressors” view. The only plus side (maybe) is that this guy will be a champion to bitter men – if any of them are around to overhear his diatribe, that is.

Meanwhile, Guy B stands a solid chance of ending up with his cock inside this girl, and she’s also probably going to change her tune about men being an oppressive sex.

You do not want to be Guy A!

He isn’t persuasive to his interlocutors, he puts people on the defensive, he’s divisive, and he does not seduce.

I have seen a lot of guys trying to be Guy A over the past decade or so, trying to ‘win’ debates with women.

No one has ever explained what the point of this is to me. What does ‘winning’ a debate with a woman get you? She is not going to change her opinions. You are not going to debate her back into the kitchen. All it does is piss her off and dig her heels in deeper. She is not going to blow you. She will just blow you off. It is purely a futile exercise in pointless point-scoring.

She is a woman. You are a man. There is literally no point in debating her unless you have an audience or something.

READ MORE: Do Not Compare Yourself to Women

If you want to seduce women, you must learn seductive frame control like Guy B.

That comes from not trying to ‘win’ by beating her on points but from aiming to paint a picture that is SO COMPELLING that a woman willingly steps over into your way of viewing things.

You want to paint a picture that is irresistible.

THAT is seductive framing.

 

More Ways to Skin a Cat

Like Ross Jeffries, you can control the frame by simply repeating a frame enough times that it sticks in women’s minds. I do this with chase framing – just keep repeatedly framing the girl as chasing me, wanting sex, and wanting sex from me, until she starts acting like it (because I have framed her as it, and she has accepted the frame). If you only use a chase frame once or twice it’s just a cute little gimmick. If you repeatedly sprinkle it throughout your seductions it starts to change the entire frame of the seduction, and really STICK.

You can affect frames when you tell women what to do. You can tell women what they will FEEL. Demo seduction is one example of doing this.

There are a lot more tools than this for learning and setting frames in NLP and elsewhere. We have a section on this website devoted to frame setting that I suggest you check out if you’re interested in more. The section of the website on sexual topics is also heavily frame-focused (in that case, on sexual frames).

The thing I want you to take away from this article, if frames are at all an abstract concept to you, is this:

YOUR FRAME IS SIMPLY THE SPIN YOU PUT ON THE WORLD.

• “I’m not good company right now” – that’s a frame. Maybe not everyone is going to agree with it though, especially if they think you are cool and fun.

• “All women care about is looks” – that’s a frame. DEFINITELY not everyone will agree with it (including me and including most women).

• “Social circle is the BEST way to meet women” – that’s a frame. Not everyone agrees with it (I don’t. Not to knock social circle, but there are definitely better ways to meet women. *cough* cold approach *cough*).

Frame = opinion = outlook = perspective = spin.

Frames inform not just what you say but the way that you act.

A guy whose frame is “I am God’s gift to women” is going to do really well with some women (especially horny women / women who are looking for a CONFIDENT man) while irking some other women. He is simply going to behave differently from a man whose frame is “I am a pretty cool guy, I guess.”

A guy whose frame is “I am a loser and nobody likes me” is going to walk like a loser, talk like a loser, act like a loser, and come across like a loser to everyone he meets, and most people are going to treat him like a loser. He will end up in a self-reinforcing cycle, trapped in loserdom he himself creates and thus cannot escape.

A guy whose frame is “I am an important, high status man” is going to comport himself in a way that communicates he expects to be let into places, not held to pedestrian rules, and so forth. People will react to that. He will march into the VIP section at the nightclub unopposed because he looks like he’s supposed to be there and the bouncers just assume from his behavior that he is. He will talk to women with an air of superiority that implies authority, and women will treat him as if he is an authoritative male – even if in fact he’s a nobody.

Some people will challenge your frames. They will suggest you aren’t what you say or how you act. They will try to knock you down a peg. They will insist their frames are correct and yours are incorrect. These are frame battles, and you must get good at ensuring your frame – your spin, perspective, view of the yourself, others, and the world – comes out on top.

The world is full of people, and people are full of frames. In a way, we might even say that human life is a battle for the supremacy of frames over other frames.

YOUR FRAME IS THE SPIN YOU PUT ON THE WORLD.

You want that frame – that spin you put on things – to be something that is POSITIVE to and HELPFUL for you. You want to reject unhelpful frames (unhelpful spin) that others try to impose. You want to learn how to get your frames (your spin / your perspective) to predominate over others’ frames that clash with yours, or to co-opt their frames and pull them into yours (e.g., a girl says “everyone here sucks” and you say “I agree. We should get out of here in a couple minutes” and use that to seed a pull. This is you co-opting her frame – agreeing to share it in order to pace and lead things in a helpful direction).

Learn to command FRAMES, and the world will be your oyster.

Well, until you run into situations frame alone is not enough to overcome (can’t frame control your way out of a burning building, for instance. But if there are PEOPLE involved, maybe you CAN!).

Chase Amante