Tactics Tuesdays: Questioning Other Males' Masculinity | Girls Chase

Tactics Tuesdays: Questioning Other Males' Masculinity

Chase Amante

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undermine masculinity
One highly effective way to eliminate social and sexual competitors: undermine their masculinity. Yet as powerful as this tactic is, you must use it carefully…

Very slightly dark side tech here, but I’m giving it to you purely for defensive purposes.

In some situations, you will discover there is a need to defend yourself against competitor males. There are a variety of defensive measures at your disposal to deflect or declaw your social competitors, including many we’ve discussed before:

Right now I’m going to give you one I’ve always liked personally (but try not to use on Girls Chase... because it’s kind of mean), which is to undermine competitor males’ masculinity.

Now, to pull this off, you have to be reasonably masculine. You don’t have to be a hulking brute who chomps cigars for breakfast. You just need to be a little above average on the masculinity scale. Even if you’re a sensitive man high in verbal intelligence and empathy, it is not hard to up your masculinity to where you’re a bit above average. Focus on being cool, being an asshole, and being dominant, and you’re already at least in the top 15% manliest men.

So long as you’re masculine enough for it not to seem like the pot calling the kettle black when you accuse other men of unmanliness, this tactic works like gangbusters.

You’ll use it for two things:

  1. To directly demoralize social competitors, to their faces
  2. To influence the opinions of women and others against your social competitors

Let’s have a look.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

Jimbo's picture

This is an odd one coming from you, Chase, being the guy who's been all about stop climbing the social ladder, being the genuine man, and mocking the AMOG types of PUAs.

Any time a guy becomes too entrancing to your woman, or might become it... or is being too much of a bother, trying too hard to win leadership of the group, forcing you to continually smack him out of the way as he goes for your girl, or behaving in any other way as your social or sexual competitor, it can be time to break this tech out...

I know you say this should be used for defensive purposes, but the above combined could be extrapolated to pretty much most guys around you in any social setting. Which sort of conflicts with the "don't use it just because" part. So it seems to be more offensive. But then again, pretty much every offense is done under the guise of defense.

The only times these attacks are legitimate in my book are when you receive their peers from the other guy. Basically when someone tries to pull on you anything from the first part of this piece.

But that first part you advocated to be used for the above "justifications", if someone did that to someone else, and I were in that said audience, I would think less of him, not more. I don't see what's honorable or deserving of respect in being in the top 15% of masculinity as you said, and then trying to put down some dude with these cheap shots and backhanded compliments because you think your girlfriend might like him. I'm supposed to think more highly of a guy who does that, like he has more status now? No! He's a schmuck.

You once said, "The most respected, dominant, successful men I know with women never try to tool or AMOG other men. Never." And you were right then.

Not to mention it being so transparent! It's like when your girlfriend starts talking trash about some other chick in some underhanded way. You're like "yeah whatever, she has cellulite, if it makes you feel better.." You know what she's trying to do, and it reeks of insecurity, but whatever, you play along. So you know, it's not even acting like a dick, it's more like being a cunt.

And before you interpret any of the above as me trying to purposely knock you down a peg or climb some hierarchy or any of that.. Chase, I've been around her for some two years, and you know what I think of 98% of your writings, the comments are still there. But this is just one of those 2% I'm gonna pretend I've never seen.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Jimbo-

Thanks for the critique. No personal slight taken.

Hmm, yeah... some context is lacking in this article. Probably an important thing to have in there. I just went straight into "how to use it" and didn't talk about "when to use it." And on rereading it it seems like some kind of meanspirited, petty thing. Oops.

Well, let me address your comment first:

So it seems to be more offensive. But then again, pretty much every offense is done under the guise of defense.

Yes, much good offense is made under pretenses of defense.

No, I absolutely mean 'not for offense'. On the one hand, undermining other men as an offensive tactic is below the belt and not nice. On the other hand, used offensively it also comes across as 'transparent' to anyone watching with a modicum of social grace.

There's a big difference between tooling offensively and tooling defensively. Or at least how I define them. When I use 'offensive' I mean "to knock someone off his perch / gain his position" - scenarios where you are trying to 'take new territory'. Climbing the social ladder, in other words. When I use 'defensive' I mean "to shut down someone trying to knock you off your perch" or "woman you're with suddenly takes interest in someone else" - scenarios where you are trying to protect 'territory' you've already 'staked off'.

This line:

The most respected, dominant, successful men I know with women never try to tool or AMOG other men. Never.

Needs to be in context. Here's the full context:

Quit trying to tool guys. The most respected, dominant, successful men I know with women never try to tool or AMOG other men. Never. They build other men up -- make them sound good.

Why do real alphas never tear others down and only build them up instead (or ignore them / marginalize them if they're being ignorant)? Because, quite simply, it's the social ladder climbers who tool others to try and advance their position. Leaders, by contrast, build others up and confer value upon them, because they don't want weak people in their group -- they want strong ones, they want allies who're grateful for being recognized and appreciated, and they want to disarm with charm rather than try and beat down with verbal or physical intimidation.

That's from my "don't be a stereotype" article on alpha males. The focus is on proactive rather than reactive actions. I did not and do not tell guys to 'turn the other cheek' (which is what my advice gets warped into if you take it as "a man must never defend himself in any way other than by building up others and being inclusive").

Fact is - unpleasant truth of the world - mockery works. It's not pleasant, which is why you don't want to use it offensively (aside from moral reasons). Otherwise you seem like an unpleasant person. However, if you're being undermined yourself, responding in kind in more decisive fashion if it's suitable doesn't usually detract from 'your score'.

Here are some examples of blatant masculinity undermining men use:

  • "That guy's a pussy"
  • "That guy's faggot"
  • "He's so gay"
  • "What are you, scared?"
  • "Do you even lift?"
  • "Those guys are lame"

Etc. Every strong dude uses masculinity undermines, in jest with his pals, in confrontations with other males, and in shaping the opinions of women around him.

It's like when your girlfriend starts talking trash about some other chick in some underhanded way. You're like "yeah whatever, she has cellulite, if it makes you feel better.." You know what she's trying to do, and it reeks of insecurity, but whatever, you play along. So you know, it's not even acting like a dick, it's more like being a cunt.

Yes, it's jerk behavior. And defensive. But much of the time, it works, doesn't it? She points out the girl has a crooked nose, and now every time you look at that girl you see her crooked nose, and you're not as smitten with her as you were before. She points out a girl has cellulite rolls, and at first you dismiss it, but the next time you're closer to her you look and, yep, cellulite... and you're not as attracted to her. You're a little annoyed at your girlfriend's behavior, but how do you view her? As less attractive? Or as staking out her territory - and even feeling like she's asserted a clear "there is US, and there is the rest of the world" frame?

The unfortunate thing about mating is we cannot trust that our value is so unambiguously superior to anyone else's that everyone can see it. Even if your value is very high, and you are a very attractive man, you sometimes need to explicitly highlight the contrast to get it to sink in.

Hopefully you won't have to do it much. But leaving it wholly out of your arsenal means there will be times when a woman gets her impressions mixed up and thinks another man is sexier, more dominant, or more attractive than you, and you do not have a direct way to assert the opposite to be the case. Instead, all you can do is keep trying to win her attention back and hope she realizes you are the better option.

Sometimes, the best advertising is simply to say "Yeah, I know they want you to buy their fast food. But they have transfats; we don't."

(the other use of this tactic, and probably the one I use it for most, is as a differentiator when a girl tests you to see if you are like XYZ guy who shows ABC unmasculine qualities. "He's such a great guy; his girlfriend cheated on him but her took her back" --> "Yeah, seems like a super modern kind of guy. I don't know how he does it; wouldn't have been my call, but different strokes for different folks")

That said, let me edit this article with more context so it doesn't sound like I am saying "Ha! Go around and mock those other dudes wherever they stand! Losers!"

Chase

Jimbo's picture

I don't have a problem with responding in kind to a guy tooling you. And as I said, that's the only legitimate instance to do so in my view. He tells you "no girl wants to f you", you tell him "at least I don't masturbate to granny porn." He suggests your girl wears the pants, you rectify it by making it known that you tie her up during sex, or bring up something similar about him. Tit for tat, fair play. That I'm cool with. I'm also cool with it being done as part of lighthearted ribbing between buddies - "don't be such a faggot" "that's gay" "lol" "no you're gayer and you suck dick", whatever, just some harmless roughhousing between pals.

And for the record, I don't see that as this huge dent on your masculinity or standing because of some remark on how your girl wearing the pants for instance. Lots of public figures and politicians and celebrities get mocked and ridiculed 24/7, sometimes to their faces, and their fans don't care and keep cheering for them afterwards anyway. They throw things around, you do the same, and sometimes even if you ignore people forget and you move on, especially you turn out to be completely unaffected by the criticism, keep doing your thing.

It's like one of those Youtube videos with retarded titles like "DESTROYED" and "MOPPED THE FLOOR", and then you watch the video, and it's just good points against that guy or some jokes. But then you see the guy two days later and he's livelier than ever, going at it, far from being destroyed. I guess that's a great response to some criticism: ignore it and keep doing your thing like the one who said was a nobody who didn't say anything that affected your life. That's just another option in addition to a "tit for tat" response, though a tit-for-tat retaliation is fine by me too.

But aside from that, I guess if you perceive a threat, you do what you have to do to avert it. I just find this idea of tooling other guys or talking trash behind their backs distasteful, when it's not done out of retaliation. And I don't like the guys (or the girls) who do it. But that's just me.

Truth is, if I found some male friends or acquaintances of my girl to be some kind of a threat (and I do a couple of them, to some degree), I'd much prefer to just tell her not to hang with them. This might sound a little Taliban-ish, but you'd be surprised at how many girls comply when their boyfriends tell them not to hang with male friends or mixed gatherings without his presence. Sure, the girls may "complain" about it, but they'll comply.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to address my criticism. Keep it up.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Jimbo-

Sure, deciding what is a threat vs. what isn't is tricky.

Plenty of guys overreact and see threats where there aren't any. They can end up looking foolish and paranoid if they do that.

Plenty of other guys under-react, and squelch that vague feeling of unease that tells them "Maybe I should respond to this" because they don't want to rock the boat or hope no one's noticed or the threat will disappear if ignored.

The whole "deciding what's a threat vs. what isn't" topic is almost impossible to write on, simply because it's so heavily context dependent. And it's also very, very difficult to convince a man he is over- or under-responding to threats without having a lot of exposure to the situations he's in and a lot of trust built up with him that you deeply understand his situation and can guide him to better performance in it.

Celebrities are somewhat difficult, but not completely. Threat level is largely tied to "Is this person on my level?" For instance, a celebrity may attack other celebrities who attack him, while ignoring the peanut gallery attacks leveled against him on social media. If he attacks a random person on social media, he elevates that person's position, while demeaning his own. Sometimes it's also better to ignore celebrity attackers who are below his level; sometimes it's worthwhile to target one of them to make an example out of. Depends on the situation.

The "not completely different" aspect of that is that it works the same for men. If you're the coolest kid in school and the nerdy chess club kids are snickering about you behind your back, it doesn't really matter, and you look insecure if you confront them. However, if one of them gets on the PA system and slanders your name, you probably need to take action.

So I guess the threat decision system would be something like "opponent prominence + opponent message loudness/reach", probably plus something like "audience reaction."

Agree with telling girls not to hang out with men who are threats. Not extreme (Taliban-ish) to me. You won't always have that level of control, especially with women you haven't slept with yet or women you're in a looser or rockier relationship with. But with a girl who's devoted, "I don't like you hanging out with that guy," is usually all it takes.

Chase

Zack's picture

Hi Chase,

there are a lot of advices on this site not to chase women. However, they are surrounded by white knights nonetheless. And then you have a guy who doesn’t chase. And there goes a situation for him: the girls just doesn’t have enough time to consider him her being overwhelmed with WKs’ advances, plus she is scared not to loose the attention from then, the attention which puts her on top of her female competitors. WK are doing their best to shame their competitor to the point our guy becomes socially outcasted. She sees nobody is talking to our guy, and the atraction fades.

So, how would our guy come on top instead biting the dust. I have a feeling there is just a small tweak he needs to introduce at the right moment.

BTW, fundamentals are covered, no need to seek the answer there.

BR

Author
Chase Amante's picture

BR-

Have you seen this article?:

Your Sexual Market Value: Who's Afraid of Desperate Men?

For your specific situation though, it sounds like you were too public in your advances to this girl. It's very, very important to keep things discreet, especially when there's a feeding frenzy around a girl. Find an under-the-radar way to chat her up, and trade contact info with her quick.

Then ignore her in feeding frenzy situations and get her out one-on-one instead.

Girls with lots of orbiters tend to be addicts to that attention and will not do anything to sacrifice that. If you reach the point where she has to choose between her orbiters and you, you lose.

I haven't dealt with this situation a whole lot (courtesy of not doing very much social circle); Hector's probably your better bet to ask for seasoned advice on dealing with girls swarmed by orbiters. But when I look at ones I've done okay with, it's mostly by standing outside, not chatting up the girl, waiting for her to come near me, chatting her up real quick, making a quick, strong impression, sometimes tooling one of the orbiters hovering near her if he tries to jump in, and going for a quick ask-out then and there, with a good-sounding reason: "Super cool you like snowboarding too. We're doing a trip up to the ski lodge sometime in the next month or so. Let me grab your contact info, I'll hit you up with details."

Chase

Martian's picture

Chase-A few qns for u. (1) How many books do u read per week or in a year. (2) Is it possible for u to tackle the concept of how to master anything from a neural plasticity perspective. An article perhaps? (3) I get confused abt what exactly a deep voice means. Is it a voice that is almost a whisper. Why I ask this is b'se I have a natural friend who closes girls on a consistent basis and the way he speaks to girls by speaking to them in a whisper. He does this from the outset and carries this through out the interaction. And as far as I can tell, ladies just eat it up. Wudn't u suggest this tone of voice be used further into the interaction wen she has hooked and thing are getting steamy? Or its OK to do it the way he does from the start of the conversation right to the very end? Thank u...patiently waiting for ur input.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Martian-

I used to read more... when I was in my teens, I could read a book a week.

These days I read maybe one book per two months. I try to choose what books I read very judiciously (lots from Lubbock's List) so I'm not wasting my time. I have a few friends who read lots, and post book reports on what they read to private forums, and I notice the books they consume are all very similar, and have a lot of overlap (e.g., legions of popular science best sellers - whatever's on the best seller list right now). Lots of quantity, but questionable quality. I don't think you have to read a lot, if what you are reading is extremely high quality.

I am not an expert on neuroplasticity. I am not sure what areas of the brain change throughout a lifetime, or how plastic different parts of the brain are vs. not. I've read plenty of interesting things on it, but... probably no more than most reasonably well-read people. Not an area I'd feel comfortable opining on at present. If I end up diving into the research on that at some point though, maybe I might.

Deep ≠ whisper. People will say "a low voice" and mean deep sometimes, and a whisper other times... e.g., they may mean low as in pitch, or low as in volume. That might be how you got the two conflated. A whisper could be good... I don't generally speak very loudly with women either, and have even recommended that to guys I've coached ("Try not speaking so loud. See if she gets closer"), so can see the appeal. And you will move closer to a whisper naturally as things grow more intimate and you switch to "bedroom voice." If you like how your friend's doing it, I'd say give it a try. Couldn't hurt to see how it works for you, especially if you already know it's working for him.

Chase

SZ's picture

Hey Chase,

1. I don't know if the question was answered or not, I can't even find it. I was asking you about the book millionaire fast lane, I was asking was it a joke because I want money fast? Or is that deff a book to read?

2. This has happened a few times to me, I see a cute chick usually at a supermarket and she's alone I pass by get my things and then out of nowhere her bf comes.

That seems to happen a lot in supermarkets, idk if it's anywhere else, but it is annoying.

Is there a way to tell if a girl is with a bf or not ? Like are there certain places that girls would be with their bfs with than other places?

I'm mostly talking about day game, besides her wearing a ring or something, is there a way to find out before we approach ?

Do you think walking away for a while then coming back to her might be a good option to see if she is with someone or not ? There's gotta be a way to tell.

3. What would you recommend I focus most of my time on?

I'm already doing a lot, but I wanted to know out of coding, side hustles, and trying to build a following on social media to make money, how should I split my time between them?

I figure focusing harder in one and doing others on the side would be effective.

I was thinking of going hard in coding, while putting the other two to the side a lil.

But with the social media thing, you have to be consistent so that's kind of hard, as well as side hustles.

4. Is there a way to feel normal if I'm going out to pick up girls 5-7 days a week ? Won't lie I feel kind of thirsty and lame, I know what I gotta do to get better, but you know the saying of worry about money blah blah blah. They look at it as chasing pussy, but I look at it as a valuable skill.

It's just I feel kind of guilty I guess? Idk.

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

Yes, I meant that recommendation.

The only way to tell if a girl is with a boyfriend is to observe her for a bit. Or just ask her soon after the approach: "So who're you here with?" If she's there with her boyfriend, just excuse yourself after a moment.

No recommendations for how to split your time other than what I've already said. You must forge your own path.

As for looking normal while going out a lot... yes. Don't blab. No one's going to know you're going out 5-7 times a week to chat up girls unless you tell them. Or unless they also go out 5-7 times a week, and see you every time they go out. In which case they're in the same boat with you, and won't care.

Chase

SZ's picture

I forgot Chase,

After reading your article about "do you need a nice job to get laid"

I was wondering what was the main key that women want if they don't care that much for your job or car?

What are women mostly looking for if not these ?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

The article's here. Give it another read:

Will a Nice Car and Good Job Get You Laid?

Chase

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