Sexual Economics: The Lover and the Provider | Girls Chase

Sexual Economics: The Lover and the Provider

Chase Amante

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sexual economicsFrom reading the comment sections of my earlier posts, I saw that many men still do not truly believe that women love sex and seek it sometimes only for the pleasure of raw, primal sex itself.

I can understand why this is hard to grasp, as we often hear women talking so much about how they seek romance and love (and not only sex). We get the idea that women just want a boyfriend who can stimulate their heart... and not so much their loins.

Many men also believe that women are “okay” with having sex, but that women only have sexual intercourse with men in order to reward them for good behaviours.

Well, in my opinion, such beliefs are true... but only partly true. I will explain how women experience mating – what they seek in men and how their sexual behaviour can change drastically according to which men they are interacting with. I will also cover the elementary traits of these different men so that you can become the man you desire to become.

It is recommended but not required that you check out my earlier posts on:

By reading these posts you start off with an even better understanding of the concepts laid down in this article. However, for those who haven’t checked them out, I will recap the most crucial elements, as we dive in to how women think about sex and why it’s so that women use sex as a reward for some men... but seek it as their own reward from others.

Alek RolstadAbout the Author: Alek Rolstad

Alek Rolstad launched his pickup career at age 14, an early starter and seduction savant. His unique style of game focuses on “sex talk”: a way to make sex the primary topic of conversation. Sex talk lets the user excite girls rapidly, and filter for girls open to fast, raunchy, kinky one-night stands and sex. You can learn from Alek, the master and originator of sex talk himself, by booking a 1-hour phone consultation with him.

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Comments

Richard's picture

What’s best is being able to switch between the two roles seamlessly ;)

Or even starting as a lover and becoming a provider by choice which I think is one of the best ways to start and maintain a relationship if that’s what you choose to pursue.

I always find your articles to be quite fun and informational. Always a pleasure to read,

-Richard

Drexel Scott's picture

Awesome work man! This fundamental difference in Lover and Provider frames is still, in my opinion, one of the most basic and useful concepts anywhere in the seduction community. This could be the last post any "Nice Guy" has to read to at least stop doing things wrong and get on the right track.

Also a great reminder to the veterans.

J.B's picture

Is this why the lover rarely gets the "I have a boyfriend" line? Women instinctively know what role this man plays.

Petr's picture

Well, this is something that has been on my mind since about June. But there is similar thing that is linked with lovers (moving fast) and that I am not really sure about. Chase mentioned escalation windows, but how does such window look like? Yea, I understand that if she asks you where do you live out of the blue, than you should take her home. His article is more about why you should act on that. And what it does if you miss it. And a couple of steps how to recover from that.

But in overall "getting to know" each other, during that whole process of pick up, how do I recognize her window got open? As dumb as it is and sure you will know what I mean, I cant just invite some girl home in 2 AM in the morning if I just came to her and said Hi. She is not ready for that. She did not signal anything. I usually got this feeling in my gut, the air somehow changes and I feel like she is just waiting for me what I will do. Mostly if she just became warmer.
And if I do not feel it, does it mean she does not want me to move things forward?

kuba's picture

Great & true article

Aspiring Gold Digger's picture

Aside from being a sexy man who can turn women on, give them amazing sex and connect with them emotionally, what else does a man need to do to get a woman to financially support him?

Is there a process for this?

Can it be done so that it is a one-sided open relationship(for the man)?

And how does a man get a more financially well-off women(or one who will soon be) to marry him and propose to him while making her think it was her idea all along?

Thank you.

Matt's picture

Great article. You really hit the nail on the head.

I've been re-reading The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley. There's a whole chapter devoted to this one subject titled Monogamy and the Nature of Women. Conversely, there's a chapter titled Polygamy and the Nature of Men.

In the chapter on monogamy the author posits various theories of human mating patterns, comparing our mating system to the mating systems of different species of apes, such as bonobos, who just have orgies all day long. He eventually rules out that our mating system is like any other ape, primarily because we don't practice infanticide when a new dominant male takes over a new female or group of females with infants.

He posits that we are actually more like swallows, in that we are mostly monogamous, that a female chooses a male who can provide for her, her young, and help with child rearing, then the female will copulate with the most attractive male she can find, solely for his genes.

So women love sex, but they only love it with attractive men, that's why so many men think women don't like sex, they just aren't thrilled at the thought of having sex with beta-males as you call them.

You obviously have a very good understanding of the subject, and I was wondering about what Richard, up above, had said.

Do you think it's possible to move in and out, from one role to another? I know I have been both, but it always feels like a big switch for me.

An interesting note, or clue maybe, from swallows, is that the attractive males are mated monogamously, but participate less in the child rearing. The author says it's as if they feel they have done their duty for the females by providing her with superior genetics, and so it is her duty to raise the children.

It would seem as though a female who is mated with a beta-male would be better off in a relationship with him rather than with an alpha-male, so she can receive support from him that she would not receive from an alpha male, while at the same time receiving the genes from the alpha male. If she was in a relationship with an alpha male she would receive no support, and have the contribution of genetically superior sperm with little to no support. Of course I'm talking about swallows here. ;)

Also, as an extended part of my question above, I'm really hoping you can help me out with this, but I don't think there's any way around it. When I'm really feeling it, just confident and strong and dominant, and I'm showing it, I get so much attention from women. They stare me down, they are so eager to open, they qualify themselves almost instantly, they give signs of submission by looking down when I look at them, I get compliance easily, and things just go great. But in this state most men absolutely hate me. I've had men spit at me, just the sight of me, call me faggot, purposely get in my way when I'm walking (this happens alot) etc. I know I'm not being cocky or arrogant, because I've asked people, mostly women, how I'm coming off, and they usually say very strong or very confident. I can ignore some of the attacks, but it happens so frequently that it's a problem, and it gets to me if it keeps happening, so I have to respond and be an asshole, which I don't like doing, in order for me to feel like I'm not being bullied and harassed and threatened. Then I get caught up in defending myself in social situations, or become vigilant of an impending attack, so it's hard for me to focus on what I'm there to do, which is to have fun with a new girl. So I've tried toning it down, and I lose a lot of attraction with women. I've been struggling and toying with this for about a year now, and I don't think there's any happy medium. Any advice from you or Chase on this one would be greatly appreciated.

Again, very nice article.

Matt

Franco Lombardi's picture

Matt,

Do you think it's possible to move in and out, from one role to another? I know I have been both, but it always feels like a big switch for me.

If you know what you're doing, it's actually quite easy to move from Lover to Provider with women you've taken to bed as long as you're appropriately taking care of their emotions and fulfilling all of their needs. It is actually Chase's recommendation on this website that you always try to become the lover first before you move onto becoming the provider -- even with women who you want to enter a relationship with. If you move from Lover to Provider, she will always respect you as a Lover rather than a Provider, and it will make your relationship much more fruitful for the both of you.

Moving from Provider to Lover... this is a different story. There are only two ways (to my knowledge and experience) that a woman will move you from Provider to Lover and still sleep with you:

1. You show traits from both categories from the get-go. This means she sees you as not only a high-value man, but a high-value sexual man. You need to be careful when you go this route though because it can be easy to become too high-value for her making you unattainable, which will inevitably send her into auto-rejection. Sometimes this route will require you to take her on a few dates simply because she realizes you are a provider, but if you can convey through your actions that you expect this relationship to also be sexual, then she will often oblige when she feels like you're willing to provide as well.

2. You show her that, for you, it's sex, or the highway. By this, I mean that you pretty much ignore any attempt at her trying to friendzone or boyfriendzone you by making your intentions clear through your actions: you either have sex with me if you want to have a chance with me, or if you don't, I'll simply find another girl that will. This can sometimes mean that you cut contact with her for awhile if she's too aloof or invites you to too many "provider-seeking" events/gatherings to let her know that you aren't interested in playing that role. If she gets the hint, and you're a bit lucky, then she'll give in to seeing you in a situation where she can extract the "Lover" out of you and then hope that you'll turn into the Provider for her later.

You'll notice that the common trait between both of these is that you need to always show qualities of a Lover at all times if you want any chance of her moving you from Provider to Lover. However, the one thing I want to point out is that you can never completely move yourself out of the Provider role -- even if she does submit to having sex with you, she'll likely hope (and probably even push) to get the Provider out of you in the future.

I hope this explanation helps!

- Franco

It's complicated's picture

I met an amazing woman almost two years ago. She was attracted me immediately and we became lovers. My love and I have mind-blowing sex and she craves me beyond belief. I make a very good living but less than her and this may be an obstacle to our long-term prospects. She seems unable to commit to me and become a 'real' couple. Is there a particular tack to take in my quest to take the next step?

Nuncle's picture

Hi Alex

Still enjoying all your articles and looking forward to more field reports as I found them very educational.

With regard to women's attitude towards a provider how cold/conscious do you think it is? Do they literally say to themselves "I need to find a man to provide me with this, this and this"? or, in their heads, are they more thinking of love, romance and handsome princes?

Like me, sure there are some girls I just want to bang and there are others (fewer of these actually) who I think would make a great wife. But those ones, I don't think "she would be useful for this, this and this" I think "Wow she is just such a lovely person it would be great to spend some quality time with her, I can just imagine us going sailing etc etc"

Personally I think societal attraction may not be a full explanation for women's desire for a provider. I think maybe the attraction is genuine and emotional but different to raw sexual attraction. Although obviously you know a lot more in this field than I do. What do you think?

Anonymous's picture

First off, thanks Alek for the thought provoking article as always.

Question about something I have been discussing with much older men than me who are now married and have 'been there done that'.

I notice that, within 1-2 hours of meeting a girl, it is inevitable that she finds out that I'm a doctor. And most of the time (not all) I notice I get put into the provider category. Which by the way, generally means we become lovers on the 2nd or 3rd date (still not too bad).

I suck at changing the subject in this regard. And I don't have much better or cooler things to say when things such as what we do come up. Any thoughts?

Anonymous's picture

Another important point that the provider guys need to understand is that while they compete to provide social value to women, sometimes there is a secret lover (or two) in the mix. Why compete to provide value to a woman who's being fucked by someone else?? Better to be pushy and try to get her fast or not at all..

I think it pays for guys to be educated as to what some women really think about nice, timid guys, take off the gloves. Maybe then guys would have an emotional-gut-level reaction to not moving fast. I think some guys will feel bad to learn what girls REALLY think (or feel, but they can't quite verbalize). Some girls fucking HATE nice guys and won't take the time at ALL to get to know a nice, timid guy. It's like if their emotions aren't stimulated NOW, then they have ZERO time for you. They take the path of least resistance and leave you alone, instead of working to find out interesting things about you and why they should care.

Anonymous's picture

You mention in your article that because attractive guys are so rare, they're in high demand. Attractive qualities such sexiness, dominance, effortlessness, aggressiveness, fearlessness, boldness, facial hair, nice style, ambition, and so on...(all while being respectful of course) How is the game different in places where there are higher percentages of aggressive, attractive men? If more men can appeal to women's emotions more or less equally, then how do women respond to keep their power in the mating game (as the "choosers")? The only things in that case to really differentiate men would be their physical attributes, and their social value. Any thoughts?

And although you say attractive men are not be the majority, that's not necessarily the case in certain nightclubs and bars. Competition can be stiff. And it's really who grabs the girl first that wins... So it's good to either know locations that don't have as much competition, or get good at street game...

Anonymous's picture

Hey, you say sex is necessary for my survival, and Maslow agrees. But it's been 22 years of virginity over here and I'm not dead yet. What's up with that? When will I die of sexlessness? Thanks!

Anonymous's picture

So let me get this straight, you must first learn to be the provider and only then will you ever learn to be the lover? Opinions?

Yink's picture

Hey Alek,another great article.Great job,however i have 2 questions for you:I am the type of guy who can sleep with "less conservative" girls and not think about a relationship with them but I noticed that most conservative girls won't take you in as a lover UNLESS you provide a little role of a provider.They want a relationship with you before offering you sex,what is your take on that?...My 2nd question is this:is it possible to move TOO fast with a girl you just met,like inviting her to your place on the first date and trying to escalate physically with her,and is bad?.what happens when you move TOO fast?.Thanks.

Dawnguard's picture

Hi all.
As we can see, the starting the mating game sould be always on the lover term!! But if that lover want to settle down, to have for exemple a family, should he have to give up his lover attribute and basculing trought the provider?
I think the best man that woemn will be attracted to and remain attratced are the ones who had an balance fo this traits. As i can see , all these are from a Western point of view.
Coming from and oriental background, Sex is the center point of any marriage in these societies, so i can see a lot of mix of this caracteristics, in many men whi have successfull relationship. Mt father for exemple is a typical Alpha Male, who had talked me many times about importance fo sex and the pleasure from it, and i know he likes women. But he display qualities of a provider too,but only the positive ones, so he don't think that sex should be a reward, he plays the role of a "provider" because he like his family, i can see thus mix in all strong fathers i know. SO i thunk a mix is somewhere good even if you want to get monogamous, but also keeping qualities of lovers.

Mikail's picture

Hi, thank you for the article , but there is something that I don't understand, a provider can change his identity and become a lover , off course it will take time to adopt a new personality but it is very possible. But how about biological point of view? If you change yyour personality your genetics won't change anyway, there are studies that suggest that women when most fertile prefer more muscular guys

Insidious_Sid's picture

... is the biggest load of blue-pill nonsense ever to hit the internet. Once she "has you", no matter how alpha you were, you now have provider status. She "conquered" you, and now she will be sexually attracted to OTHER alpha males who she has yet to conquer. Women like conquest just as much as men do. Men get bored after they conquer the trophy wife and cheat on amazing looking women - and most men think "Wow, I'd never do that." Well, he'll never get the chance. Conversely, the female will cheat on even a high value male and people will gasp "But he's such a high value male, why would she cheat on / divorce / ruin a good man?" Same reason. Once a person, man or woman, has a member of the opposite sex in the "co-committed long-tern relationship (tm)" this is a whole new power dynamic. One part of "red pill theory" I think has it wrong is that you can "game your own wife" and alpha-up and keep the other alphas out the door. It's a great theory, but my theory is once she gets the ring on your finger and you sign up for the house, mortgage, the full meal family deal, you also sign up for divorce, alimony and child support. Guys, let's be real. Decent, handsome and successful lawyers, doctors and athletes are going through the divorce and family law meat grinder just like regular men are, albeit likely in smaller numbers. The point is the institution of marriage and being a provider is a sour deal for a man of ANY status. He's got more to lose than gain regardless of his position in the mating arena.

*REAL* Alphas have nothing to DO with ANY of that crap. They bed the top females and move on. They're not there to pay, they're there to play.

There is no such thing as an Alpha Provider. He's the mythical creature all women want, and they know he *does not exist* so they try to convert Mr. Alpha into Mr. Alpha/Beta hybrid and what happens? She will ultimately fail. She will be the subject of many a rom com - the Cinderella trying to turn the successful handsome worry free aloof guy into the exact same man, but also loyal, sweet, caring... think a shirtless Matthew McConaughey... rocking a swaddled infant in the baby room he just painted. This is the fantasy of every woman alive. Alpha looks, money and prowess with the servitude and commitment and *caring* of the beta provider. This is mother nature's cruel joke on women - letting them think in their hamster-driven minds that such a feat is possible.

Alpha males can become beta providers. Beta providers can stop *CARING* and *PROVIDING* for women/children, get in shape, get fashionable, get a better crib, get some game... but perhaps they are just physiologically wired to provide. Perhaps they will never *naturally* exude the kind of confidence a real natural-born Alpha does.

Interesting and well written article, but I think it's got some major blue-pill philosophy in there, stuff that's already been disproved in the field, so to speak.

Chase Amante's picture

Sid-

Here's another perspective, with some discussion of your comment:

Why You Never Hear from “Alpha Providers” in the Manosphere

Chase

Gb's picture

Weird question. I naturally score more points as a lover than as provider, get laid easily and I'm offered "I'm not jealous, date other girls too" fwb status by women.

But I am a terrible provider by my area's standard: doin a fun job who doesn't pay well and might get me killed ^^, while you can easily find finance guys who earn 10 times as much around here.

I would like to trick a smart girl into "foolishly" reproduce with me at some point in the next 5 years (I'm approaching 40). What is my best strategy in your opinion? What women should I look for and how to run the operation?

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