Why You Never Hear from “Alpha Providers” in the Manosphere | Girls Chase

Why You Never Hear from “Alpha Providers” in the Manosphere

alpha provider

Why do you never hear from what the Internet’s dubbed ‘alpha providers’ – men who keep the pants on in their relationships, even over the long-term?

The morose tales of men who have become ‘beta providers’, who have gone through the ‘betaization process’... men who’ve lost the drive, strength, and ambition of their youths and become punching bags for their women... these men’s tales are all over the Internet.

Yet, you hear nary a peep from their opposites, those men in provider roles who remain the captains of their ships.

Is it because they’re quiet?

Or, because they do not exist?

A commenter named Insidious Sid, weighing in on Alek’s post on sexual economics, remarks:

This “lover turned provider” idea is the biggest load of blue-pill nonsense ever to hit the internet. Once she “has you”, no matter how alpha you were, you now have provider status. She “conquered” you, and now she will be sexually attracted to OTHER alpha males who she has yet to conquer. Women like conquest just as much as men do. Men get bored after they conquer the trophy wife and cheat on amazing looking women – and most men think “Wow, I’d never do that.” Well, he’ll never get the chance. Conversely, the female will cheat on even a high value male and people will gasp “But he’s such a high value male, why would she cheat on / divorce / ruin a good man?” Same reason. Once a person, man or woman, has a member of the opposite sex in the “co-committed long-tern relationship (tm)” this is a whole new power dynamic. One part of “red pill theory” I think has it wrong is that you can “game your own wife” and alpha-up and keep the other alphas out the door. It’s a great theory, but my theory is once she gets the ring on your finger and you sign up for the house, mortgage, the full meal family deal, you also sign up for divorce, alimony and child support. Guys, let’s be real. Decent, handsome and successful lawyers, doctors and athletes are going through the divorce and family law meat grinder just like regular men are, albeit likely in smaller numbers. The point is the institution of marriage and being a provider is a sour deal for a man of ANY status. He’s got more to lose than gain regardless of his position in the mating arena.

*REAL* Alphas have nothing to DO with ANY of that crap. They bed the top females and move on. They’re not there to pay, they’re there to play.

There is no such thing as an Alpha Provider. He’s the mythical creature all women want, and they know he *does not exist* so they try to convert Mr. Alpha into Mr. Alpha/Beta hybrid and what happens? She will ultimately fail. She will be the subject of many a rom com – the Cinderella trying to turn the successful handsome worry free aloof guy into the exact same man, but also loyal, sweet, caring... think a shirtless Matthew McConaughey... rocking a swaddled infant in the baby room he just painted. This is the fantasy of every woman alive. Alpha looks, money and prowess with the servitude and commitment and *caring* of the beta provider. This is mother nature’s cruel joke on women – letting them think in their hamster-driven minds that such a feat is possible.

Alpha males can become beta providers. Beta providers can stop *CARING* and *PROVIDING* for women/children, get in shape, get fashionable, get a better crib, get some game... but perhaps they are just physiologically wired to provide. Perhaps they will never *naturally* exude the kind of confidence a real natural-born Alpha does.

Interesting and well written article, but I think it’s got some major blue-pill philosophy in there, stuff that’s already been disproved in the field, so to speak.

Another way of putting what Sid’s weighed in here with is like so:

You only have two (2) options-

  1. Be the single bachelor forever, and forever bounce from girl-to-girl
  2. Take a girl long-term and become a doormat

Sounds depressing. You’re either trapped perpetually in hedonism, which is fun until it gets stale a decade or so in (usually sooner), or... you’re somebody’s doormat.

Well, spoiler, I’m going to tell you that’s a whole lot of hooey... but so are the mainstream ideology of “the man’s REALLY in charge, even if the woman bosses him around a bit” and the pickup ideology of “you have to game your wife”.

Instead, I’m going to tell you about something else. Namely, being a legitimate alpha provider.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.


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Jan's picture

Everything was said before, so I'll just say thanks for all the content, it positively supported my personal growth and helped to understand many things. For this I really admire you Chase, which is something I don't say often.
There is one thing I'm wondering about and it's your personality type. I know it's a personal question, but so is lot of stuff here. Mine is ENTJ and i expect to have some things very similiar with you, Chase.

I hope you are well,


Chase Amante's picture


Cheers for the kind wishes! And I am of course honored to have your admiration.

As for my Myers-Briggs, right you are – I am an ENTJ. Probably midway between that and INTJ… I’m slightly on the extrovert side of things, but really more ambivert (right in the middle between extrovert/introvert) than anything.


dawilner's picture

Chase do you know any good pua bootcamps wort attending in Chicago

Davy Jones

Chase Amante's picture


Good question. Most of the major bootcamp companies have pulled out of doing bootcamps (like Vin, Gambler, etc.)… not for lack of clients, but simply because it’s such an exhausting business everybody basically burns out sooner or later.

Only ones I know of that still run active workshops are Sasha and RSD. Sasha I’m on good terms with (he turned me onto Convict Conditioning earlier this year, which has been awesome!), and he knows his stuff. But it doesn’t look like he has anything in Chicago any time soon:


You could probably ping him and see if he has any intention of doing the town this year though. And another thing you can do is if you can find 2 or 3 other guys to take a bootcamp with you, most instructors won’t turn down a tour through a city where a guy’s already got himself + a few others ready to sign up for coaching.

RSD I am hesitant to recommend, simply because I’ve heard a lot of mixed things both about the instructors and how they run their workshops. I know when I was getting started in the mid-2000s there were a lot of complaints about them essentially hazing students and treating it like a cult. Not sure if they do it that way now still. I know there are guys on our forum who like them, and I think at least one of our forum members took a workshop with them and thought it was worthwhile. Because they have more instructors, if you go with them I’d encourage you to make sure you choose your instructor well and you make as certain as you can that the guy you’re signing up to coach from is the one who will actually teach the class.


lingua's picture

Hey Chase,

I know of very few communities who are into pickup and self-development in such a healthy mindset as this one. And I have observed what you describe too, reading local Facebook "pickup groups/lairs" or other websites, guys seem very bitter towards women. They throw around words such as "beta" and "alpha" without second though to their scientific meanings, use the 10 point rating scale and often appear to have a Madonna-Whore complex (and BTW, discovering that MWC was an actual "thing" has made me realize why people from my native country had so much trouble even imagining making love to their girlfriends, "Middle Eastern influence" things I guess ;) . I'm sure there's a lot of ladder climbing going on, and they're not all psychopaths but they sure want to act like them by bragging about how insensitive and nonempathetic they are towards their girlfriends or girls they've bed. I guess I count myself lucky for not having bad precedent with girls and relationships, since I had almost none before discovering game. And stumbling upon this community soon after.

This community is a gem within a relatively fringe group. And I understand that it sounds quite narcissistic yet if I put myself in the shoes of an average women and calculate the odds of crossing paths with a guy who has developed himself from a mindset that he would get from GC or him being a natural, it doesn't look very promising if I have to be honest.


Chase Amante's picture


For sure… most folks have psychological hang ups of some sort or other; guys learning pick up are certainly no exception. I don’t think too many people are fully “hang-up free” (or we’d all be Buddha, Jesus, Marcus Aurelius, or Confucius). But most people aren’t all that interested in looking inward and catching their own thinking errors, then fixing them to have better interactions with the world. Or even if they might be interested, they don’t know how or what to look for.

Nice thing about that though, is… if you’ve done all that hard internal and external work yourself, you can feel pretty confident meeting a woman that you’re going to provide her an experience unlike many or any she’s had before. You get to be that chunk of Au in a field of fool’s gold. And it has those ripple effects elsewhere in life, too!


Some Guy's picture

Another reason for the percieved silence of dominant males in LTRs might be that true social power seems to be more about framecontrol rather then about winning singular battles.
When you are in charge it solidifies your position to not show all your cards, while at the same time making sure everyone has a good time. Having a good time for the onedown often involvs that deficiencies in his/her frame are not verbalized. This indirectly includes being silent about ones own frame, where it deviates from pop culture.

As a sidenote: Women tend to be at an advantage in coordinating different needs at the same time, while males typically excel at what they focus on, but have a hard time to constantly work the whole picture. This typically gives women a strong edge in long term power struggles as long as the man isn`t aware of this concept. (Think of that guy who gets the girl, then focuses on his career just to become a doormat to the women who formerly looked up to him).

Chase Amante's picture

Some Guy-

Good points. Yeah, when you’re in charge, you don’t typically run around saying, “Hey, I’m the boss!” because it just looks like posturing and undermines your position. Plus, if you have to say it, it isn’t true. There’s not a whole lot to be gained from jumping online and declaring “I am an Alpha Provider. Ask me anything.”

And yeah, women are often juggling different things at once. I believe I’ve seen research on women being better at this than men. A lot of men don’t take the few years of intensive focus that’s normally needed to learn how to continually win frame battles and develop the sensitivity to when someone is trying to out-frame you necessary to squash such attempts before they can become successful, so they often end up missing the early signs that trouble is brewing, absent mindedly say “yes” to the wrong things or don’t nip stuff in the bud they ought to nip in the bud, and before they know it they are doormats, without realizing how they fell into always trying to please their girlfriends or wives.


Alexander Abraham's picture

Seriously, you have probably saved my life a few years ago. I want to thank you for that, especially after this article.

I was starting to get a little bitter so the timing of this article is pretty good :P

It helped me realize that I can still do little surprises for women in my life without being a bitch. I don't do it for them, but I do it because it genuinely makes me happy to surprise people. This article in particular has helped me understand that it's okay to be who I am, even if I do still have to tweak a little bit. Plus I love Halloween because of the surprise factor :P

Anyways, thanks for the article man. Really looking forward to the next one!

Chase Amante's picture


Great to hear it. And I am certainly glad you’re still alive! The world is poorer when thoughtful folks exit early.

Yes, little gifts are absolutely fine. People can tell if you’re doing something just to please them, or if you’re doing something because you enjoy doing the thing. I’ll get small gifts for girlfriends on occasion. And I’ve occasionally gotten “large” gifts for girlfriends, like buying a bunch of designer shirts for a girlfriend on one birthday (because her fashion needed an upgrade) or for another girlfriend’s birthday pledging to help her build a business and devoting one day a week to that for about 3 months. And for each of those girlfriends, on some other birthdays of theirs I got them smaller gifts, or didn’t get them anything at all, depending on if there was something I wanted to get them or not.

The biggest indicator of how she should take probably your behavior after the gift: do you seem like you’re needy for her appreciation, or was it just a nice thing you did because you like gift-giving / thought she needed this, and you do that with other people too and not just her? Makes all the difference.


Charles's picture

Hi Chase, I was wondering if you are aware that the CIA was actually funding a lot of the Women's Lib magazines back in the day. The Feminist Movement itself was pushed by the financial elite for a purpose that most are unaware of, namely, to destroy the family unit. It was about removing the mother/wife figure out of the household, putting her into the work force, taxing her (instead of just being able to tax the men) and then the children get sent to the schools where the State would now be raising the children.

The agenda to destroy the family unit is REAL. This is why we have the hypersexualization of society today. They (people like Bertrand Russell) were granted authority to experiment sexually (pedophilia) with prepubertal children and they found that the more prepubertal sex people had with different partners, the more likely those children would go into adulthood without being able to stay with one person for the rest of their lives.

This has been a great great war on all of us. These same financial elite that belong to the secret societies in the world, which have always existed contrary to what the thoughtless masses believe, have made estrogen mimicking hormones a part of our daily life. They leach out of the plastics, they're in our water supply, etc.

This also intertwines with the depopulation agenda, less families, less children. More toxic poisons in our food supply, more sterility, less children, etc.

I appreciate the information you put out from the context of understanding psychology, because that's the most important thing really, in my opinion at least, but we also have to be aware of the global dictators agenda here. They don't want us to be able to bond and have families. That's all to go out the window so they can have total control over the individual and eventually bring in the new gender and take complete control over reproduction. I know I covered a bunch of socially and politically incorrect subjects here, but maybe you can learn something from this and perhaps be inspired to research/put out articles on some of these things I'm talking about. Thanks man, Charles

Chase Amante's picture


I’ve seen some things to that nature but I haven’t seen any conclusive proof (other than that Gloria Steinem worked for a CIA-financed foundation in the 50s and 60s) of CIA involvement in the feminist movement. If you have credible sources, I’d be interested to see them, however.

As I understand it, the narrative goes that the CIA financed the feminist movement in order to destabilize the left to distract from economics-based rumblings and stave off revolution.

Basically, what normally happens in successful civilizations is that as income inequality expands, the wealthy begin to erect barriers to other individuals seeking to climb the economic ladder, while the poor begin to lose faith in the idea of meritocracy and clamor for an increasingly large share of the income and assets of the wealthy via redistribution. Both sides gradually become bad actors – the wealthy try to preserve their wealth by erecting barriers to the socioeconomic progress of the underclasses, while the poor try to enrich themselves by siphoning off the funds of the already-wealthy, rather than looking for ways to create wealth themselves. Eventually you either have a scenario where the wealthy agree to a partial redistribution of wealth (as happened in ancient Athens when things reached a tipping point), which fully satisfies neither the wealthy (who lose wealth) nor the poor (who don’t get as much as they hoped for), but it staves off social collapse. Or, much more often, you have revolution, which removes income inequality not by redistributing wealth, as the poor stay poor (and in fact, generally become poorer after a revolution than they were before), but by destroying wealth and removing barriers to the accumulation of wealth, while those who are actually at the top of the socioeconomic period simply play a round of musical chairs. Thus, revolution acts as a kind of economic or social release valve.

If the “CIA funds the feminists” theory is right then, the CIA was actually working to actively keep U.S. academics from instead attacking income inequality and beginning the radicalization process that leads to revolution. In which case, I’d say they did us a huge favor – the U.S. still has remarkably good social mobility relative to the size of its population, has built an economy of unprecedented scale following a governmental model that started off as a “great experiment” (and it’s still crazy to believe one country got that many smart people to come together and design a government together without any of them vying for the kingship – how many times has that ever happened in history?), and seems to have created something like 1,000 years’ worth of technological leaps in about a tenth of the time. I think I’d probably want to shake the CIA’s collective hand were that the case, and our biggest problem is American women acting a little mannish and indignant instead of our biggest problem being America becomes Zimbabwe and the world gets another Dark Age. The U.S. isn’t perfect, but the odds a revolution would make it better and not much, much worse would seem to be about 1 out of infinite right now if you ask me.

That said… I’d think it’s unlikely. Feminist movements are a natural emergent property of all wealthy, powerful civilizations. Ancient Greece had feminism, Rome had feminism, the Islamic Caliphate had feminism (kind of hard to imagine now, considering ISIS, but 10th Century Islamic women were the most liberated at the time, until the Mongols swept in). I know it’s tempting to think there’s a conspiracy responsible for things one doesn’t like, but usually there isn’t.

If you do have sources though, and you feel inclined to link ‘em up, I’ll for sure give them a gander!


Alexander Abraham's picture

What/where do you recommend a person starts to learn about the history of the world and different civilizations?

My newest intellectual pursuit is about wisdom, and it seems to me that you'd get farther along that path if you knew the history of different peoples.

So where do you recommend I start?

Jamar's picture

Wassup Chase. I can definitely tell Jay z is probably an alpha provider with Beyonce since they seem so great with their relationship. I look forward to the demo you're possible putting out this month Chase.

Chase Amante's picture


I haven’t followed Jay-Z much since the early 2000s, but from his personality I’d say it’s pretty likely. So much of his music pokes fun at guys who get manipulated by women in subtle and non-show-off-y ways it seems pretty clear it’s a deeply ingrained mentality in him (and not just a poseur, like, say, Kanye “I ain’t sayin’ she’s a gold digger” → “no prenup for Kim Kardashian ‘cause we’re in love” West ;)

As for the demo, likely won’t be this month since we’re still doing research and we’ve yet to pick a shoot date (so probably won’t record until May), but it is coming along! I will try and get something up on here as soon as I have some clips or outtakes from our shoot. Should be fun!


Lawliet's picture

Hey Chase,

It's been awhile, bro. Hope all is well with you.
Life has been crazy for the past months, (spam falling 50% I assume ;))
But it's glad to be back :)

Your articles always gets these new angles and has so many different smart points!
When provider was a dead case, a curve ball comes, and it's actually possible to be a provider and still do well!

But if they passed the committment point, aren't they considered "conquered"?
So I guess it's a balance of "safety" and "stimulating" from GISS.
How does GISS fit in this? (if it does)

Calibration Check

Re: Having to Switching back and forth
Throughout my life and job, I noticed something. Switching back and forth with elegant and slow, nonreactant, to explaining myself when boss gives pregnant pause.

It took me 5 seconds to realize my boss was waiting for my explanation after pointing an issue. I'm glad I didn't spin right into explaining myself instinctively, so that was good control, but I realize we have to switch back and forth.

Similar to working, I have to move fast and greet customers with a warm smile. Then off work, it's back to slow and deliberate and sexy smile instead.
It's really mucking up my fundamentals. I think it's good I'm picking up on this (more social calibration, improvement!), but...it makes it unnatural and requiring constant control instead of becoming automatic, and that's tiring.
Any advice on this?

Re: Mirroring people who don't think like you do
If you want to befriend or lover... we mirror them. I've done this and something doesn't click.
Sure we can empathize why they think that way, and why we think other way.
Why some people like fat / some like skinny

Considering how we become whom we're around with, Would you keep them around after mirroring them for awhile?
Now what if those people are brainwashed with Western hemosphere thinking, would that change your decision?

Logically, it's "mirror them to get close to them" then hook up / make the required connections, then silently disappear from them so we don't become them. Before the psycho-nazi's come after me, this is clearly to help give them better expectations instead of putting it off and lying to them.
False hope is worse the deeper it is; best to cut it early on. Of course, they are two sides of the coin.

Much of fundamentals come from habits (slow and deliberate, not being passive aggressive) and for some reason, it's contagious when others around you are bitter (don't be bitter!) or poisonous (passive aggressive, office politics). But obviously, some people we have no choice (parents, relatives - Defiance article)

What would you do, Chase? I'm just worried some people might hamper our growth.

Re: Program
I remember in a comment back in January, the program was expected to be out late march or april.
Any updates? I asked on the forum but nothing.

Re: Site Error
Notifications aren't working on main site and the forum despite of it being activated.
Just a heads up!


Some Guy's picture

You touch on some points I have been pondering as well.

I think this is one of the drawbacks of serious selfimprovement. When you begin to change yourself for real, parts of your personality will at first not align perfectly with other parts.
Also your new personality will not be able to unconsciously navigate the environments your former personality chose to live in rather smoothly.

Pretty much all your relationships change in some way. This means you might have to find a new means of work and will have a phase in your life where new friendships have to be established.

All this takes time, as we are creatures of habit. From personal experience 5 years might not be that much for serious change. And it`s important that you are not too hard on yourself and expect levels of smoothnes everybody needs years to reach. After all most people don`t change that much and basicly work from routines they have perfected over 20+ years.

Personally I will likely move soon and have decided to become my own boss in the future. It seems easier to stay congruent this way.

Chase Amante's picture


Yep, commitment points will play a big role in the upcoming article. See that man, you don’t even have to read my stuff to know what I’m going to say anymore, do ya? ;)

The “S”s in GISS aren’t safety/stimulating (don’t want you focused on the wrong things). I could explain the alpha provider in terms of GISS (it’d be like explaining what’s happening in a pickup via VAC), but won’t do that in this article.

As for calibration, I would encourage you to find the happy medium where you are responding fast enough to work needs, but not so fast you look reactive. e.g., people respond much better to a slow-spreading smile than they do a fast smile. You can acknowledge someone with a head nod and a wave at a moderate pace while you slap on a slow-spreading smile and say hello, and come across as a warm, strong, likeable dude quite easily. Not so slow you look like a slug, but not so fast you’re the nervous guy darting around humping the customer’s leg for a sale. Just that nice, even, moderate speed that makes people feel real comfortable.

The goal is to get a good speed down you use everywhere, since you obviously can’t switch from being a jackrabbit at work to being a tortoise with girls, movement-speed-wise.

Re: mirroring, the goal is not to share someone’s opinion. Mirror her body language, and relate to her opinions, but don’t pretend to share them. If a subject is really far off base for you, change the topic. If I’m talking to a guy and he starts going on about how he loves fat girls, I don’t say, “Yeah man! Fat girls are great!” I just make a joke to show I don’t agree, in a cool way:

“I don’t know man, I think I’d just be afraid if I fell asleep after the shag I’d wake up later and find out she ate my left arm or something for a snack.”

People can take a hint. He’ll laugh if he has a sense of humor, might try and convince you a bit if he doesn’t (“No man, fat girls are great! They suck the best dick in the world!”), and then you likely won’t hear about it again from him after and can talk about other things you relate to better.

But yeah, don’t hang around people you don’t want to be like.

Re: the next course, books are all done, interview questions are done, right now we’re working on the research. We have a ton of peer-reviewed studies, many of which are weaved into the course now (only in ways that make the information more interesting / usable / accessible though, it’s not a research paper); once we’re done with the research bit, I’ll decide where we’re shooting and book a studio and camera crew and other crew we need. Likely won’t shoot until May though. After that, it’s going to depend how long it takes to edit the (40 or so hours of) video and build the site for it, but likely won’t be out until summer. June if we’re fast, or hopefully not too much later on a more realistic timescale.

And, that’s not good on notifications – recent phenomenon? Let me check with Franco and see if he’s seeing that too.


Lawliet's picture

Thanks Chase!


Married Alpha 's picture


I wanted to start by thanking you personally Chase for your articles and content. Thanks. Good got that out of the way.
Now onto the article you posted, you hit the nail right on the head. As a married man who is firmly in control of my marriage your comments struck a chord with me. I read your articles once a week or so and a lot of the information I garner helps me read between the lines in social and sexual interactions and keeps me firmly in control (Control is an illusion, but one that Re Enforces my dominance) and on top.
I have been married for going on 14 years have 3 kids 19, 17 & 12 years old all with the same woman. We have had issues in our marriage over the years and I can honestly say that the issues stemmed mainly from me not manning up. Now being in a relationship for that long it is easy to fall into bad habits and they get exacerbated by a woman’s finicky nature and constant testing. But by not Blaming My wife for it and finding sites like yours helped me realize she is only abiding by her own DNA and that the ball was firmly in my court I just had to pick up the racket and get in the game.
We separated for a little over 2 years and during that time I got back on my game, I hit the gym prioritized my physical wellness over all other things. Once I had worked getting into shape back into my life, I started reading and studying advanced topics in science and literature, read poetry and got my mind back in shape. After that I re- evaluated my wardrobe, style, look and how I was presenting myself to the world. Last but not least I worked my ass off at work, made myself indispensible and a top producing agent in my field.
The next obvious step was setting up an abundance mentality with women and basically was converting cold approaches to sex the same day I started ( I believe it had a lot to do with my inner confidence of being able to please a woman sexually that made it so easy.) Over the course of the 2- years I banged my wife at least a few times a month and towards the end of the 2 year cycle she was falling back not only in love with me but basically begging me to take control of her life and use her sexually however I wanted.
Now during that 2-year separation I have no illusions about her behavior. Not one. By not letting it frame my mindset and sitting around crying about, instead I went out and found my own abundance and it had huge affect on her and how she perceived my value. I got back the inner bad boy back with her and it scared the shit out of her that I would find something better. Add to that with the seriously defunct state of men out there and she was begging me to take her back.
Moving forward she does what her Daddy tells her (me) and lives her life to please me and care for my young. I get whatever I want sexually, daily multiple blow jobs on Queue and will never again let myself slip back into a beta roll with her because of what I have learned about my own masculinity and value.
The morale of the story is this; women are wired for certain behaviors when faced with a weakening man. I use an analogy that I came up with after reading the Selfish Gene by Charles Dawkins. I call it the sinking ship theory and it goes like this.
You and a your woman are on a boat, its sinking and your chained to it. There is another boat nearby and in it is a man, he offers to take your woman and save her from having to die with you. As Men we would practically beg her to jump ship at this point, seeing as how we want to protect her. If we reverse the rolls and the woman is chained to the ship and its sinking we would stay by her side until the ship went down and do everything in our power to save her to the extent we die.
Women have been trained to do this to protect our offspring and the women who did not jump ship when we went under invariably died and so did our offspring. Now in modern society this has been basically hijacked by feminism and instant gratification. Now days if you’re having issues in your relationship and a woman seeks counsel with friends or family they are told there are plenty of other great men out there and to move on. It’s the reality of today.
It’s our job as Men to accept the realities of the world for what they are, to bend the things we can and to not blame Women, feminism or the powers that be for the problems we face. Man up, push your wife to her knees tell her you own her and that she is going to do what you tell her to from now on and then take that new found responsibility and be a Man, maintain frame, stay on point Mentally, physically, spiritually and always look to improve yourself. That’s being Alpha in my book.

Chase Amante's picture

Married Alpha-

I've got to hand it to you, that "sinking ship theory" is just a brilliant piece of analogy. Lends it self to all kinds of apt comparisons... easy to frame a woman's tests within the confines of a relationship as primarily aimed at discovering whether the ship she's on is still seaworthy or if it's taking on water as we speak (and thus, that she ought to head to the lifeboats). Simple and beautiful.

Thanks for sharing your story here. I've seen a few recovery stories like this in the past, where the man's hold on the relationship gradually declines, and it wakes the guy up, he takes control, and eventually turns it around in one way or another. Nice to see how it all worked out.


Jimbo's picture

Hi, thanks for sharing.

If you don't mind me asking, was the cause you guys separated a "betaization" on your part or just other practical reasons?

SilverTongue's picture

I've really come to understand your view on balance and consciously balance myself in anything I'm doing. (Realizing that learning anything takes time, hard work, and smart work has been my greatest aid.)

I was raised with, "admiring other guys other than yourself" is gay and beta from my father (Growing up I had an extremely manipulative father with a HUGE ego who literally puts everyone down because of his fear of abandonment in the family) and growing up with an alpha provider - my grandpa, I thankfully was able to escape and discern when people and situations are slightly "off" if you will. That being said you truly are an admirable person - you change peoples lives on such a grand scale that it gives me goose bumps and I don't know if you realize how grand the scale is. Cheers to you man. All this leads my questions:

Did you literally learn all these things strictly on your own? I know you had pua sites that you learned from and some mentors too, but is the content on this site all from your trial-and-error approach and if so, when did you really start to hit that balance of where you're at now? Would you say you're an entirely different person perspective-wise?

Got a quote I think you and anyone reading this would like too.

“Education is the kindling of a flame, not the filling of a vessel.” -Socrates



Chase Amante's picture


Actually, sometimes I wonder if it’s just 4 or 5 guys writing all the comments on here about me changing their lives :) It’s different writing articles online than it was when, say, I used to coach guys in the field… there you can see the guy and you can witness the change.

Impact is much harder to assess via typed words on a screen, but it is nice to hear, and provides some comfort in those odd moments where you wonder if you’re merely blowing noise into the wind.

I suspect what you really mean is where my meta-frame comes from, right? The whole “take a bigger view, keep a balanced viewpoint” mentality?

That’s been something I’ve worked on continuously since young. When I was very little I would seek out adults and ask them streams of questions aimed at understanding the world better. I was already fighting against victim mentality in my early teens, when I’d feel inclined to blame other people for my problems, and then I’d refuse to do this and tell myself these people are just battling through their own lives trying to fit in and look cool and belong too. If they aren’t hanging out with you it’s either because you didn’t accept their invitations or you didn’t offer enough value to them to include you, that’s all.

At least in me, it seems to have been an empathetic world view combined with a mechanistic one, which I take it is fairly rare, since most mechanical thinkers are low or no empathy, while most empathetic thinkers are more airy-fairy. Plus inquisitiveness. Anyway, both my parents think similarly, from what I can tell, and particularly my father; so it could be inherited, it could be acquired, but probably is a little of both.

Beyond that though, most of my lens has been built through tons of study and experience. Any natural inclination I may have had merely pointed me in the direction; all the frames I have for viewing the world were built. I spent a few years training myself to continually zoom out my perspective so I would be less concerned with fleeting matters. As I’ve read history, I’ve noticed more and more that, as Solomon notes, “What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun,” so that’s gradually altered my perspective as well; and as I’ve identified more and more flaws in normal human mental models (including my own), it’s caused me to ask why those flaws are there, which makes things even clearer and raises more questions.

I wouldn’t say I’m a different person, so much as I am a more refined version of my earlier self, with perspectives that reach higher up into the heavens and stretch deeper into the future and the past, and with more knowledge about the people and things of this world. All of that is acquired, through study and application.

If there’s anything intrinsic in me, it is inquisitiveness, empathy for my fellow man, and a desire to open things up to see how they work and tinker with them a bit. Anything else I have is simply something I have added on top of that through study and learning from men who have something to teach, whether a knowledgeable individual I know in real life or a great teacher I read in a book.

And, I do like that quote from Socrates. I’ve not read him yet (I guess it would be Plato I would really be reading), but he is on my list.


SilverTongue's picture


To be completely honest, at the time I had no idea what the term was, so, thanks for that.
You hit the nail on what I meant. I would say that I am also mechanistic and cerebral. I love philosophy and understanding how people, dynamics, and the mind works.

Which subjects did you dive into?
"with perspectives that reach higher up into the heavens and stretch deeper into the future and the past, and with more knowledge about the people and things of this world"

That sounds like meditation and conscious awakening.

Also, I've noticed I don't really click with much of the other writers on an understanding level because I too am an INTJ/ENTJ. As one of the rarest types and one with the most psychopathic tendencies, it's no wonder mechanistic hits home.

Glad to see you're on the site more often! You've got yourself a loyal customer always down to dive into your perspective for an article.



PKS's picture

Another wonderful article Chase, I am really looking forward to the one you're going to write next about how to be the Alpha in a long term relationship

simflip10's picture

Hey Chase,

In this article (http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-attract-women-guide), you wrote about how attraction can grow a little bit as a girl gets to know you, but it's there or it isn't there the moment she first meets you. Like the moment you walk, she's either into you, or she isn't, & it's mostly based off your fundamentals. From my experience, I've seen this w/ some girls into me instantly.

But I've also seen this happen too, where from your deep diving article, you said women become "magnetically attracted to you" the moment you start getting to know them.

And from this article (http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-many-attraction-factors-are-there-...), you list lots of other stuff of things to attract women/up attraction, & i've seen some of those things work for me too sometimes.

So isn't it the moment you walk up, she's either interested, neutral or not interested (seen this somewhere in one of your articles) & it can grow some/if not a lot if she's neutral/interested as you factor in other parts (game, handling convo, deep diving, leadership, touch of vulnerability/humanness, etc. aka what most people generally call "personality")?

So in that how to attract women article, were you referring more about needing an initial spark to start, which you can then grow into a flame?

I guess I'm looking for a clearer explanation - a more definite view/belief framework to work off for attraction.

Also from the way you ended this article & the topic, it makes me think you're starting to settle down with one girl. True or no? Do you want kids? Just curious lol.

Thanks - Simflip10

Chase Amante's picture


It’s my belief that attraction is there or it isn’t. You can unlock attraction by allowing a woman to feel comfortable lowering her guard and expressing it around you (this, to me, is what most men talk about when they discuss building attraction later into knowing a girl – at least it’s what I mean when I phrase it this way). And it’s also possible to sleep with women who are NOT attracted to you, but who are horny and with whom you handle logistics.

That said, you can increase how attractive you seem to women during that first impression by improving fundamentals / attraction factors. For instance, if you have a terrible haircut, maybe you’re attractive to 3 out of 10 women you meet. Get an amazing haircut, and you may now be attractive to 5 out of 10 women you meet. You won’t build that attraction any higher with them while you’re with them, but you may make them more sexually aroused or feel needier / view you as scarcer (which I guess some guys would consider “attraction”, but I consider different dimensions).

So here’s my framework:

You can increase how attractive women find you by improving your game and fundamentals. However, once she’s had that first impression of you, her attraction is set. You can still unlock “frozen up” attraction she has for you that’s dampened by low attainability or low value behavior by you, or by her not being invested enough, and you can still help her feel more sexually aroused, or needier toward you, but when I’m talking about pure, raw attraction, as in do I find this man attractive, is he a man I like sexually and romantically, in my view that’s set. All you can do after the first impression is made is unlock (or lock, if you mess up) the attraction that’s already there, turn her on sexually, or make her chase you or feel needy or invested or other emotions like that.


Alphabet's picture

Manosphere is my guilty pleasure. I read some of those sites with a smile on my face, because they are outlandish & conspiratorial plus I imagine all the clueless guys reading that and taking it seriously. I find the bitter guys with blatant biases, conspiracies, binary thinking very funny.

How do you feel about them(Manosphere in general & sites like RoK etc.)?

Chase Amante's picture


Yeah, it’s a mixed bag. I used to stay completely away from them, but these days I’ll sometimes spend time reading manosphere sites. There are some intelligent guys writing for a number of these sites, and they dig up some interesting data points and propose some interesting theories sometimes. And if you look at Roosh or ROK, there’s often a lot of well-crafted trolling going on, where Roosh will have these articles that are half-venting, half-trolling, and they can be kind of a hoot.

The manosphere also shines a light on media bias, and calls attention to issues the mainstream media tries to ignore or sweep under the rug, and while not everything it reports on is all that significant, it does serve as a canary in the coal mine for slantedness in the media, and this might actually be its most crucial function. Not necessarily that it “spreads the truth” (its messages are often as slanted as the mainstream’s are), but that it provides a contrasting voice, which makes it easier to notice points of contention. e.g., you might not even realize something is open for debate when everyone in the mainstream media all paints it the same way, but when you have opposing voices suddenly you need to stop and think about which take on an issue, if any of the takes, you agree with.

At the same time, the manosphere is a diverse set of voices and plenty of them are extreme and outlandish, and you’ll have guys proposing all kinds of half-baked theories for whatever their personal pet peeve is, lots of conspiracy theories, etc. And there’s so much emotional venting that after a while I find it very mentally draining.

So I’ll generally go through cycles where I start checking in on a few sites every day, out of morbid curiosity, until I realize it’s affecting me emotionally, absorbing all these men’s pain and resentment, and I just have to cut it out I’ve my schedule for a while and go cold turkey. In many ways it’s much like reading the news – it can be interesting, but the manosphere beats the same fear / sky-is-falling drums the news media does, only with a different spin on the issues, and its emotional effects end up being similar.


Evan 's picture

mmm I'm really waiting for your elaboration on this post- not sure how monogamous you expect an alpha provider to be, or how he negotiates desire for quantity. I used to think the submerging of this desire causes all kinds of frustration, loss of power etc ...

Jake's picture

chase, this is rly true tt yu hve to game your wife as a men...bt according to us guys on courtship I think we hve to exactly do that so that there can be a survival than a disappointment

Danny's picture

"If you’re the alpha and you want a divorce, get the heck out of any state that forces you and her into a legal fight,"

Dear Chase, great article as always. Can you please name a few (maybe 5 or 6) states that force you and her into a legal fight? You only mention California above. It would be great if you can attach a link that has map etc so it can benefits all of your Girlchase readers/customers.



Sagas's picture

Someone turned me on to reading all this manosphere stuff a couple weeks ago, and have been reading through it in spare time. Found out about VD's classifications last night, and I fall into the Sigma category, but ultimately the alpha one; i.e., just haven't met someone who fits my criterion. Reading through the manosphere stuff, I felt like i was reading very good thoughts and theories from a collective of life experiences and intelligences BUT with very basic things catastrophically breaking their entirety. So, i happened upon this article, and it largely sums up what those people are missing, in that they don't understand that high quality men do things because they hold themselves accountable and responsible for the other people, be they good or bad. Honestly, the entirety of what I read from various junk in the past couple of weeks talking about the various men types and women make me think, "uh, yeah, those people are out there, but there's a word for them: Fucked up." Moving from a non-metro area to a major metro, I can say that the population percent of them in metros seems much higher. As far as alphas, betas, whatever, and women in all these things, they seem to miss something very basic: Those are boys and girls, not men and women. What you describe in your article is not "male," nor "boy," but is simply "man." From what I gathered from the other junk on the manosphere, it sounds like most of the people grew up with boys and girls for parents, rather than men and women as parents. Due to such, they aren't able to conceive what your article talks about, because they never experienced it. Girls are often the same way too, because they don't know what a proper woman is like in a relationship with a proper male. My father is Alpha, and my hero. He even last week replied to a group text between my siblings and parents with me and my siblings joking about which one of us were winning at being the best, and he replied saying he is about to have our doctor mom retire with millions while he enjoys his two houses, beautiful wife, and expensive trips and the life of luxury so technically he wins. Lol. You're right though, he'd consider the manosphere supid and for weird people that need to grow up lol.

Insidious_Sid's picture

Wow, it's quite rare someone goes through the time to explicate one of my rants... and so civilly to boot.

Technically there is not just one, but *two* additional options...

1. Be the single bachelor forever, and forever bounce from girl-to-girl (PUA?)
2. Take a girl long-term and become a doormat (beta/bad marriage)
3. Alpha Provider / Dominate option
4. Become MGTOW, and leave concerns about relationships to others

I don't normally come to "win at marriage" site like this one, because I have no dog in the fight and don't see the point in derailing conversations about people who are genuinely interested in saving their marriages. I tried as best I could to save mine, but by the time I found out it was ending she had started planning the logistics of her exit 18 months prior. People from camps #3 and #4 are going to have very little to talk about. Before I went full-out MGTOW I frequented a similar "married alpha" site like this one, and after getting divorced, there was no more wife to hopefully dominate ("game"), so there was no need to stick around there.

Despite what greater society wants to believe, MGTOW philosophy is spreading. There are young men in my office who, albeit not quite as angry (not divorced!), are simply avoiding marriage at all costs. These men are *not* losers living in their mothers basements. These are up and coming engineers and captains of industry and they are very intelligent and often very pragmatic. They just don't cling on to the social pressure and "need" for marriage like their fathers did. I don't speak too much of this MGTOW thing at work - but I do tell the young men to trust their instincts and the results of their own cost/benefit and risk analysis.

Marriage is not for everybody and I surely won't ever do it again.

If you're genuinely trying to save your marriage, may you succeed where I failed.


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