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If things aren’t going right, it’s easy to stress out and panic
with a
girl. But to succeed with her, you must remain level headed.
This is one of the more difficult topics to write about, because it’s one hard to not have folks adopt an extreme position on. People (though surely not you, Dear Reader) read stuff on the Internet and adopt extreme positions all the time, because it’s hard to judge context from words on a screen. No tone, no subtext.
One example of this is the mantra move faster.
Most men don’t move anywhere near fast enough most parts of their
courtships. And pretty much every guy could stand to move faster on something. Yet not every guy takes
this advice the right way. Some hear “move faster” and start to rush
themselves (which you shouldn’t do).
Contents
1. Planning Out vs. Stressing Out
2. Why Aren’t We Naturally Strategic?
Other men hear “move faster” and speed up parts of their courtships they already move plenty fast on, while they ignore the areas most in need of acceleration. Maybe a guy runs his interactions up to the point of the phone number exchange at a perfect speed, but then on his dates he takes way too long. So he decides to speed up his early interactions to try to get phone numbers even faster, while hardly tweaking his date speed... the end result being he messes up the part he had right, while failing to improve on the part he had wrong.
Obviously, we don’t want you doing stuff like this, where you fix
what isn’t broken and leave broken what is.
So today, I want to talk about the “I’ve got to get to X!” reaction. This reaction gets into your head and pushes you to find a way to make X – whatever X is – happen as fast as possible. Often X is sex, as in, “Come on, I’ve got to kill this boring conversation before she loses interest and get this girl to sex!”
The cautionary note is going to be this: we need to get you to continue to move things forward toward sex, without having you completely hung up on trying to figure out how to make forward progress toward sex. The objective here is not to strip you of the goal of “sleep with this girl” and get you into some kind of aimless “just talk to girls and feel good” mindset. You will still have the aim of bedding girls.
Rather, the objective of this essay is to get you to realize unhelpful thoughts mid-seduction, and turn them in a more productive direction.
Comments
A template?
Hey Chase!
This article resonanted with me so much. I've always tried to be strategic in every aspect of my life, and the article has given me a new level of insight.
I'd reckon my problem with strategy would be lack of an aim. I have no experience beyond the basic convo (except for a few lucky breaks), so I don't know what the next stage of the interaction is? Pre-open, Open, talk to her, get physical, tease, but then what? And what is different if I'm looking for a one-night stand vs. getting a date vs. a long term relationship? And how about with party girls vs. conservative girls, or day game vs night game? Damn, that seems like a lot of situations to gain enough experience and formulate a strategy everytime. Yes, I've gotten girls' numbers, even had a couple of them propose to me, but I have no idea how I reached those stages, and find it difficult to replicate that with every interaction.
Do you think you can provide a template for how some situations usually play out? If we know what the next step is, we can look for opportunities to get there. Or would we benefit from any other articles on the site covering similar topics? I'd be extremely grateful for it.
Thank you once again for the great article, you've got a loyal reader in me!
Template for Conversations
BW-
Sure, that's a common issue guys run into.
Have you read these three articles?:
If not, go check 'em out now. I suggest you run your conversations exactly the same, whether going for a one-night stand or a long-term relationship, at least when you're starting out. When you start to hit intermediate level, you can worry about differences (like, positioning yourself in a more extreme lover role for one-night stands, versus seeding some early boyfriend value with LTR prospects so you won't have them bail on you after sex). However, when you're new, don't worry about this yet, it'll just complicate things and trip you up.
My suggestion is you make talking to people a general priority, to get used to making conversations and comfortable leading and directing these. The more you talk, the better at talking you get.
Once you've done 5 to 10 minutes of small talk, basic compliance, incidental touch, and banter, move her somewhere (ideally, somewhere seated) and deep dive. Mix in chase framing or sex talk, escalate touch, then once she's grown very into you, change venues with her or take her home.
If you're just going for phone numbers, a little small talk / incidental touch / light compliance / banter is mostly all you need to take her number and set up a date with her later. Usually you'll limit conversations to 3 to 10 minutes if your object is her number. Talk too much longer, and the emotions crest too high, and she gets disappointed if things just end in an anticlimactic way after this. If the number is your object, talk shorter and closer (and exit) sooner.
Don't get too caught up trying to figure out how to run day game vs. night game, this girl vs. that girl, etc., different when new. Focus on getting out there, getting a good basic process down that works at least some of the time, and learning that. Once you start getting some success, you can look at taking your process and adapting it to different girls and different scenarios. But you need that baseline first (often, best to choose a specific niche and learn how to do well with girls in that niche first. Then branch out).
Chase
Please help!
Hi Chase,
Your disciple from India again! Stuck in a situation here and couldn't think of anyone better to message. Maybe it will be useful for other people too! Due to unfortunate circumstances I find myself without a place for 3-4 months! Crashing at a friend's place where I can't bring girls and trying to run game... haha..
Basically went on a date with HB7 (I know you don't like the labels) and since I can't take her anywhere private, made out in a cab on the second date. Then she tells me she got engaged and still wants to jump my bones! I deflected the situation since I don't want a crazy fiance after me (Mr. Johnny will never forgive me)... maybe it's a smart move... who knows... and then there's a solid 8 who is definitely LTR material, she's daddy's sweetheart and inexperienced, but not wife category (she's already 30)... the problem is I can't really escalate in public because it looks super creepy (it's India) and I don't want to take them on too many dates without getting physical as then I would lose the attraction window... I can't book a hotel and take them there cause then there's no plausible deniability ... I can't say let's go to a hotel and we can "cook pasta and watch movies"....
So do I drop these girls and start fresh once I get a pad for myself? Or can I maintain some momentum and go full throttle after 3 months? But that would mean losing the girls I'm seeing right now and starting fresh... don't have many guy friends here to take advice from because as soon as they get any attention from chicks they turn into beta chumps....
Your golden words would be much appreciated!
Forever grateful,
Tyler
Poor Logistics
Tyler-
Poor logistics suck, for sure.
Though, have you read these articles?:
And expanding on these, Davi Diluna is whipping up an article right now to basically serve as an ultimate "how to have sex outside" guide, which should be out in the next week or two I believe.
If I was you, I'd focus on non-physical escalation on dates, and just playfully invite girls somewhere private in a fun way. If you can find a hotel with a Jacuzzi, that's ideal; "Hey, let's grab a hotel with a Jacuzzi and enjoy the warm, bubbly water."
Women are realists; she knows you can't escalate on her in public if you can't. If she likes you, she'll go with it.
Also, does it look creepy to sit next to a girl in public, and touch her secretly? I haven't done India yet, so I honestly don't know (and, I mean, even if it was 'creepy', I probably wouldn't know if I was there because I'd just touch girls anyway and get away with it because I'm foreign "that's just how they must do things in his country I guess"). But in most cultures you can at least have some proximity, and escalate incidental touch (i.e., touch her leg under the table on high points, have your leg touching her leg, etc.).
I'd look for ways to get incidental touch in non-creepy ways. And once she's primed enough, invite her to the hotel for something fun. Jacuzzi, or, "Let's get a hotel with a view so we can look out on the city and get away from all these random people."
Chase
She stares
Hey Chase,
Thanks for this article.
I often find myself scratching my head when planning dates since I don't have my home as an option for logistics.
It's stressful. I usually give in and say "It's winter now! And I'm not sure where to go that helps! Screw it, I'll just go to a movie instead or park or etc."
Re: Outwardly gape stare at you
I like this dynamic.
They're in the pursue frame from the outset before approach.
Btw, you mentioned 3 years ago in a comment about flipping the sexual dynamic around with her getting sex from you...You also said you won't share it in public in case irresponsible people use it for bad.
I've been whacking my head ever since and can't figure out the whole picture yet. Can you email me it?
Anyway, back to my question.
Now I know you said, "If you make eye contact with her, you gonna approach her right away."
Which means, "no standing near her, then preopen as if you just happened to be there" because she saw you saw her.
Can't fake it.
But I'm not too much of a fan of the straight beeline approach.
Is there a way to keep the pursue frame (when they freaking stare at you without looking away...is actually pretty creepy..and you don't know what they want ;)) without reversing it into you getting to know her.
But instead, HER getting to know YOU and you welcoming her?
Thanks Chase!
Lawliet
See Her from a Distance, But Don't Want to Beeline Approach Her
Lawliet-
When you're more advanced... maybe. Not now though.
Okay, do this:
Works pretty well most of the time!
Chase
Hey Chase,
Hey Chase,
Just replying to a comment left back a while ago.
I know you have told me about age any times, but I cannot ever find those comments at all. I don't mean to keep asking, but when I look for them, I can't find them.
I know you have said I can still fuck many girls on my 30s, but when I think about that article my confidence goes down.
Think you could link or quote me what you said before about getting girls in your 30s?
I have tired using search and looking back In articles and I found nothing.
If you don't want to look for the past comments, I'd be happy if you could tell me how possible it is to still do good with this seduction stuff if you started late with this site in your 30s.
I want to stop worrying about this and do this with a clear head. My doubts come from not having most of the things you said 30 years Olds should have. I still pick up, but I still have that worry. I'm trying to be exceptional, but it's not gonna happen overnight for me, so I'd like to know how I can do this with a clear head.
I had a few quick questions as well.
1. Chase, do you think we should be angry at ourselves if we read material in anything and started later because we didn't have confidence at the time?
I Remember about reading about dating before I found your site and I didn't really start doing it until years later and I regret it didn't start sooner.
Do you think we have the right to be mad at ourselves for not doing it soon after knowing? Or should we just let it go?
I get mad all the time.
2. Being in my close to 30, I really want to make some money, I'm still a student, but I need some good money. I still want to get better with girls too. I want to start working on my business too.
I know I read before that it's good to focus on one thing at a time.
Thing is with my age I'm not sure. Should I focus on girls or money?
I say money because I have a lot of shit to pay for, but it's hard to pick because I know with girls there is an age limit. I know with a business there's an age limit as well.
I think you'll agree with me with finances since that's the only way to make a living, so how would I get better at both?
What would you recommend to start with? Or do you pick both with my age?
Thanks
Age and Success with Women; Picking a Money or Woman Focus
SZ-
I don't know man, you've asked me it a hundred times, and I've answered it a hundred times.
Your stated goal is "I want to have sex with 100 women in my thirties." Okay. Here's the general guide to dating success as a mid-30s or older man:
And here's a bit more on a specific category of younger women:
Now, another thing you have said repeatedly is "What if I can't make myself exceptional?" i.e., you're just going to be an ordinary guy, and not do the work necessary to make yourself stantout in any way.
Then you will get ordinary results. The average lifetime sex partner count for American men is anywhere from 6 to 15 on average (depending on the study). If your plan is to just be an average American man, you can expect somewhere in the 6 to 15 sex partner range throughout your life.
If you want more than that, you have three options:
Make yourself more exceptional, or
Go somewhere chicks are REALLY easy, and you'll be attractive/exotic. Like the Philippines or sub-Saharan Africa. Then just keep approaching and picking up until you hit 100. Obviously this will be way faster / easier if you make yourself an exceptional guy with great game and fundamentals first in your home country and are able to bed women consistently back home (then you're like the expert military sniper going to the carnival duck-shooting booth, instead of like the guy who sucks at shooting rifles going to the carnival duck-shooting booth)
Bring your goals inline with reality. e.g., if your dream is, "I want to be a billionaire, but I don't want to slave away for decades on a huge real estate or technology company or provide some service that changes the world in a big way. I just want to be a billionaire and enjoy my riches. How can I be a billionaire?" either you're going to dramatically change what you are willing to do to get what you want, or you're going to have to settle for being a thousandaire instead of a billionaire
Focusing on girls or money: you've been asking that for, what, two years?
When are you going to get started?
There's no way I can pick that for you. I'm not you. You need to make your own decision. Pick one, and begin. Don't be here in 2019 writing about how you wonder if it's too late to get started and asking about which one you should focus on first. Pick one, and start NOW.
Chase
Penis size & learning v. enjoy
Hey Chase,
I recently started trying to meet girls during the day. I have a smaller than average penis size and I was wondering what would be the limits for me in being good in bed, especially compared to guys who have big penises?
I only had one inexperienced girlfriend before so I don't know much about sex. I read an article online just now by a guy who had a big penis & how women liked his bigger penis & how it made him able to give girls more animalistic pleasure than guys who had smaller penises. Plus when I used to watch porn, and you know the stereotype of bigger is better.
Could you do an article on penis size? I was thinking a lot of guys have an average size penis because average is average so how does that compare to guys who have bigger ones v smaller ones for seducing a girl or a relationship.
My biggest hang up is having a relationship with a girl who has been with a bigger-package guy and I can't compete because she can never feel it as much as the other guy so she'll never have as good a time haha.
Is this situation kind of like what you wrote in the Female Sexuality article?
The end of this article hit a point for me too that I have started to realize. I was thinking that maybe I shouldn't pick things up from the internet because a lot of things I read instills fear that I won't be good enough and it makes me worry more & not enjoy going out & interacting with girls as much. I only try to read beginner GC articles now cause of this.
How do you think I should balance between learning some parts of seduction with girls sort of fast plus these fears of comparison to other guys/feeling not good enough v enjoying times with girls? I'm about to turn 24 so I feel like I am young.
I think I have good fundamentals because a lot of the girls I like show me some interest or curiousity off the bat so I got lucky there. And what I wanted to do with learning with girls is to develop confidence so I can be more flirty/playful & in control of situations with girls.
This became longer than I thought. Thanks man - PH
re penis size
Chase will probably give you a more complete answer you but here's my view which may or may not help you:
If you want to give women animalistic pleasure it comes down to your sexuality, how comfortable you are with it and how well you can express it. Animalistic pleasure comes down to how 'raw' and 'passionate' you can be in bed. It's about dominance in bed i.e you knowing what you're doing in bed and commanding her, moving her around, changing her positions, spanking, hair-pulling and doing it in a way that expresses your passion for her. There's a lot more to it but that's the general idea of it.
Regarding penis size, a larger penis may be more visually appealing but you can make up for it, with good positions and hard deep sex.
I'd recommend avoiding 'porn' which facilitates the idea of 'bigger is better', it will mess with your psychology.
Smaller Penis
PH-
Good notes from Jason on porn. Many (most?) of those guys with the giant penises in porn either wear prostheses that slide over their actual penises, or they have prosthetic implants to make their members larger. The end result is a lot of guys end up more insecure about penis size than they'd otherwise be. Sort of like girls seeing a bunch of chicks with big fake tits and getting depressed that their breasts aren't as large or as round or as perky (I, for one, adore natural shaped breasts and abhor the inflatable ones).
We've had requests for a penis size article, and I'll do one at some point. I don't have the 'smaller penis problem', so have been hesitatnt to do that one... Since I like to be able to talk from direct experience, and this isn't one where I have direct experience. However, there's enough scientific research on it, and I've heard enough anecdotes, I can probably whip something up.
I have dated girls who've been with well-hung guys. I had one girlfriend who'd had a Hungarian boyfriend with a big, thick, 8.5" cock (she said). She claimed it hurt, sex was awkward, and she could not achieve orgasm. Asked me a bunch of times if I felt insecure about her big ex-boyfriend. I was always like, "Lol, no. You orgasm really, really hard when I stick my cock in you, so why would I care if some other dude shagged you awkwardly with a bigger dick and it hurt?"
That's the trump card. If you can make her cum with your penis, it doesn't really matter how big anyone else's penis is. She orgasms from YOUR penis. So focus on positions, experiences, and technique:
Focus on sleeping with girls and giving them orgasms. I've never watched male-female porn (don't like porn with penises in it), and even I was kinda worried about "Gee, is my penis too small?" for a while.
Once you start getting laid, figure out the female orgasm, and start making girls cum their brains out though, the idea of it seems silly to you.
At that point, you just look at your cock and are like, "There's the female orgasm generator, right there. The thing that gives women 9.0s on the pussy quake Richter scale." And your major focus becomes, "I need to get this cock inside a pussy," instead of, "I hope she will like my cock." Big mindset shift. Try to get to getting laid more often as fast as possible, and after that, teach yourself to give girls orgasms consistently. Any worries will vanish (and seem pretty silly later).
Chase
UPDATE: Article is here: "Will Women Date You If You Have a Small Penis?"
Party girl in love?
Hey Chase! Im in a bit of a situation here. Missed some escalation windows from a married girl i was seeing and she went from seeing me as an option for fast sex to putting me in long-term category, trying to lock me down now and branch swing. She looks great for her age (30). Im a bit younger than her. She has fallen hard for me despite being a very social girl. Im dominant and assholish with her just the way she likes it.
She's very flirty and knows how to make me feel like a man and supports me (cooks for me, gets all chatty and smiley for me, buys me gifts, buys me meals, emotional support, compliments, complies to ALMOST everything). But she just won't get physical now and is trying hard to pass herself as a good girl in my eyes :/ I dont know if thats good or bad cuz i know clearly thats dishonest but she cares enough to make herself look good in my eyes. She knows i'm discreet and wont tell anyone. I tried escalating on her. But she turns her face, gets emotional and her eyes get tearful. I tried telling her i wont like her any less for it but she just wont have it. I give off a player vibe, maybe thats the reason. I Im giving her silent treatment now but shes on the verge of auto rejection. She pinged me a few times, getting lovey dovey and seeking security and reassurance. How to get around it all now?
Vibe
Chase I was wondering if you could help me out with this.
I remember one time a dude said I had a bad vibe. I never talked to the dude like that at all. He just randomly said that to me one day out of nowhere.
I have no idea why he said this, I don't try to do anyone wrong, I'm a good person, with good intentions, I don't leech off anyone or try to get something off of them. I'm not a super nice dude, but I give everyone their respect. I stay in my lane most of the time and just mind my business, so that comment doesn't make sense to me.
Thinking about that comment made me think about other things as well.
I have had people tell me it's fun to mess with me like, talk shit and play around with me. I don't know why, I don't try to act like a tough guy or a nice guy, I'm just laid back so I don't get it.
And people always have something to say about me, just random shit, people just feel like it's comfortable to talk shit. It's nothing too crazy, but they still are saying shit trying to make fun for no reason.
Another scenario, I have had a lot of people come to me to be my friend, and this has happened all of the time, I provide value with you personality and humor, I don't ask them for shit, but two times, I have had a group of friends and then out of nowhere they all turn on me like I did something to them.
They really just out of nowhere become like snakes and turn their back on me at the same time, like they were never really my friends in the first place, but they are the ones who wanted to be my friend in the first place. It wasn't all at once, they were at different times and people were not cool with each other, then we all hang out then later they turn on me like I did something to them. I didn't do shit, I didn't ask to be friends with any group.
Fuck them.
I have read your article on getting respect and stuff, but I seem to have done most of it.
I mostly mind my business and just chill, but the examples above have happened to me.
I have tried acting like a hard ass, but it feels try hard and I think people don't buy it.
I feel that all of this comes down to vibe.
Do you know how I could get rid of this bad vibe and fix the problem of people thinking it's fun to mess with me and to stop having these fake friends?
I appreciate the help chase
Bad Vibe
No idea, man.
Same thing I've told you about this before. You need people who know you who can tell you why they're reacting this way to you. At least 4 or 5 different people, asked at different times. Look for the patterns in what they tell you.
That's the only way you'll figure out what's afoot.
I will say, again, as I've said before, from your comments, it's like you're caught in this loop. You just ask the same things over and over again, for years, and never progress. You ask for advice and never follow it. It's really draining. I suspect you're doing this same thing with people in person. Anyone who devotes any time to you gets caught in this same loop, re-explaining things they've explained a hundred times before. It's not a good use of most people's time.
Chase
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