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The
vapid
stares, the uninteresting conversation, the constant
references to celebrity doings and pop culture happenings you haven’t
the slightest inkling of.
She’s cute, and you’d like to sleep with her, but she’s just so... dumb.
It’s simply impossible to connect with her.
For a long time, the moment I realized a girl I was talking to was ‘dumb’ was the moment I gave up any hopes of bedding her.
I knew we had nothing in common. No shared interests. No mutual conversation topics. We could talk past each other, but we’d both merely bore one another with our respectively boring topics.
Eventually, however, I realized I was being kind of dumb myself; if there’s attraction there, it shouldn’t matter how many common interests you share... you only need one common interest: an interest in each other.
Realistically, if you want to go to bed with her, and she wants to go to bed with you, how much more ‘in common’ do you actually need?
It turns out, not much.
Comments
Girls in high school are not
Girls in high school are not very socially attuned and most of them have horrible social skills. I guess i can play it the way you described for dumb girls. Flirting, dominance, etc?
High School
Dabenna-
Not my realm of expertise, but... real empiricists test.
Give it a shot!
Chase
exactly wath i need right now
exactly wath i need right now!! thank you! gracias Chase!
Great Breakdown
I liked this one a lot, Chase. I think on a semi-conscious level, I know all of this (because I certainly operate this way depending on the type of woman I'm dealing with). I've always been very aware of how a woman is responding to me, and if you can read between the lines (and get a good view of how she sees you), then you can operate on the appropriate level (dumb/smart/etc.) to gain interest from her.
Great breakdown! =)
- Franco
Social Media
Hi Chase,
Great article!
I feel like the number of "dumb girls" is consistently rising by the use of social media and smart phones.
Especially younger girls tend to never learn social skills as they are almost never exposed to direct (in person) social interactions (only at school or at home).
I am sad about that, though. Well better meet older women then... Or become a "social media artist"?
Jumok93
Older Women?
Jumok-
Well… young girls are always “dumb” ;)
It just seems like younger generations are “dumber”, because you end up comparing more worldly and educated older folks to more idealistic and less experienced younger ones. In general, at least in the West, each successive generation tends to be better educated.
A lot of smarter guys find they do better with older women until they reach a certain age. I know I wasn’t able to consistently do well with younger women at all until I hit about age 27 or so. Then at that point, 19 year olds, 20 year olds, etc., got a lot easier, and have stayed easier. Until around that age though, I was pretty hit and miss with late teens / early twenties girls, and probably half my seduction diet was made up of women who were 25+, which often meant women who were older than me.
Social media I recommend against. Because it’s so low barrier to entry and encourages celebrity-like personas, it’s feast or famine. Either you’re Dan Blizerian or you’re another schlub liking her status updates and hoping for the odd comment here or there from her. Which is not to say you can’t become Dan Blizerian, but if it’s mostly just for results from girls, become moderately good at cold approach is a much safer (and faster) bet.
Chase
Thank you once again
Really appreciate the reply Chase, the frequency with which you keep churning out this gold is remarkable. I know you are a classy guy and there are more elegant ways of articulating the following statement, (although from what I gather you prioritize efficiency above sophistication) but quite simply: you are the fucking man.
Ruminating on my problems with dumb girls has led me to contemplate the nature of auto rejection itself. I've begun to discern between different flavors of auto rejection- the sharp divide between the sweet girl lacking confidence, and the tigress who is disgusted by your ineptitude or aloofness. I completely understand why you advocate for guys to move on if they mess up and get auto rejected, and as far as efficiency goes it makes perfect sense why a guy on your level wouldn't spend much time treading those waters.
But as a guy who has spent the majority of their college career putting awesome girls into auto rejection (largely because I still had morsels of victim mentality, bitterness, and madonna/whore complex ingrained into my flawed mental model- thanks to you I have annihilated every trace of these poisonous thought patterns) I feel the various shades of auto rejection can often be rectified. The remedy I have found success with is through melting their ice- an explosion of kindness, warmth, and humility.
Do you believe the different levels of auto rejection matter? And would you tailor a unique approach to these different levels? I know staying out of auto rejection is a key tenet of your dogma but I am in an environment where it is extremely hard to avoid. I also admittedly have a soft spot for girls I have sent down that road- I feel bad and want to cheer them up.
Thanks again Chase
Recovering from Auto-Rejection
Pistol-
Yes, sure, you can come back from auto-rejection. Especially if it’s “mild”.
That’ll be more applicable in a social situation. I’ve come back from really harsh auto-rejection in social situations where the girl was forced to be around me for a length of time. Even if she hates your guts, if you are shrewd enough to figure out how to turn things around, all you need at that point is time and access to her.
I usually recommend against bothering to remedy auto-rejection because:
While I’ve turned it around myself, I’ve also had the experience of trying to turn it around with various women in social circle situations and merely wasting my time. That said, had I been warmer in those situations… maybe. Were I still around those girls, I suspect I could probably turn it around these days – perhaps you can do the same. I certainly empathize with your desire to make those girls you’ve hurt feel good again. And yes, different levels of auto-rejection will require different degrees of response – the deeper the auto-rejection, the more dramatic/emphatic you will need be.
Chase
Intelligent Girls
Reading "dumb guy game" kinda made me laugh because that's the kind of stuff that I naturally do with all girls haha. Indeed, it's very possible that I'm not as intelligent as a lot of the guys who call girls "dumb".
So what about the reverse. Lets say I'm of average or less than average intelligence. Any advice for picking up "smart girls"? I've that more intelligent girls can find my type of jokes/flirty remarks kind of annoying, and that deep diving and connection-building is far more effective. Any other suggestions?
Smart Guy Game
Simonn-
Right, smart girls often have less patience for dumb flirting/jokes (though some of them like it). Deep diving / connection-building works better.
The old proverb comes to mind: “Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.” Brad Pitt’s style of dumb guy game is often appealing because he’s quiet dumb; he isn’t being a goofball, he just keeps his mouth shut and smiles with his little parted-lip dumb/sexy smile and his sexy dumb cow eyes. Then again, I’ve known a lot of smart girls who really didn’t like Brad Pitt, so maybe that still doesn’t work that well on them.
You might try just studying clever humor. Like, find a comedian on TV who makes jokes for a more educated crowd… most of the late night celebrity interview shows feature hosts using higher brow humor. Try to emulate that style of humor and use that with cleverer girls – they appreciate it more. But then knock it off and go back to dumb guy game for the girls on whom highbrow humor is wasted.
Chase
What about the inexperienced
What about the inexperienced but smart girls? Do they respond to overt displays of dominance?
Inexpeienced-but-Smart Girls
Robinhood-
In my experience, they typically respond better to social dominance than physical.
e.g., strong/fast leading, out-framing them, etc. They tend to like bold moves and overt action. I often find what works really well with them is getting an “us vs. them” rapport going on, and then suddenly proposing a bounce: hey, let’s go get some food, just you and me. Seems to do well. The bounce feels like a validation of your connection with her.
Whereas more experienced smart girls don’t seem to respond as well to these sudden proposals. They want it to come more smoothly. Do it too smooth with the less experienced girl and it feels like you’re unsure (or she may be unclear on whether this is actually a pull or not, or what this is).
Chase
What a great article. As
What a great article. As always, the article is very thorough and combines key concepts. it's great to see Chase writing articles again in his classic form.
Always a pleasure, Chase, my online mentor. Thanks.
Great article
Hey this is excatly what I needed,my first post in the boards was this question..(how do I get dumb girls ?)..and what I got was an angry mob of seducers telling me I'm bitter...hehehe.....once again u come to the rescue
Pile-On Effects
Ree-
Main thing with invoking mobs is remember to make sure you're asking your questions clearly!
If it's not clear, people will fill in the blanks by assuming things. That's the main pitfall of unclear communication: others have to guess at what you mean, and without immediate feedback (like you'd have in person), things spiral out of control in text mediums ("Oh, you're just another X! Xes are bad...").
Chase
Talking tiring
Hey Chase,
Great article!
Sorta make me question, "What qualifies as dumb?" since I personally don't come up with countless topics to talk about in my conversations. And my conversations run out of gas between 30 min to 1 hour with the girl giving exhaustive answers!
Maybe I'm the one that's dumb to them haha!
But upon meeting them (or even on date), topics such as aristotle's logic model or american's political debate aren't really helpful in moving the seduction forward anyway. Which you noted too in "Keeping her attention" and conversational articles.
So I guess, if we think dumb as "uneducated and only know about the latest fads in fashion or movies without other intellectual discussing capabilities." then dumb girls don't really make a difference for hook ups? Since, the process is just same unless I'm unaccounting for something else too. Let me know if I am.
Re: My talking
I recently noticed something.
When talking with a girl, asking her questions and such, then baiting when she asks me, before going right back at her, they tire out.
Two types of tiring
Correct me if my inferences are incorrect.
What I mean by this is,
1. They noticably are excited or warm in the beginning, but as they work to answer my questions, they feel tired and break circle sometimes to nap (since we're on transit).
2. They answer with a smile early on in the conversation. They do break circle though and go back to what they're doing. I open again, and after 2 min of talking, they become terse.
I think it's because they're being polite. Since they're not trying in this scenario.
Guess my question is, what am I doing wrong in either scenario?
Anything going on that I'm unaware of.
Thanks bro,
Lawliet
Fundamentals
Lawliet-
“Dumb” girls and “smart” girls tend to value different aspects of game differently. E.g., don’t deep dive dumb girls, usually. But if you talk to a smart girl for more than 30 minutes and don’t deep dive her, you’ll usually have a much harder time bedding her.
Conversation’s a skill like anything. You start out, you can’t last 5 minutes in conversation with a girl. Then you can make it to 15 minutes. Then 30. Then an hour.
Then you reach the point where you can talk to almost anyone for hours on end. At that point, you really don’t need to get any better at conversation, since you should be sleeping with women before you reach that point (and solidifying friendships with men before you reach that point).
On your two scenarios, yes… sounds like you’re getting polite responses in those situations, and then they’re either just dropping out on their own or getting annoyed you don’t take the hint they’re uninterested and let them go.
To more easily reach the hook point, I suggest you work on your fundamentals, and also continue to practice your conversation. As you become a more attractive man, women will want to talk to you more. And as you improve at conversation, you can better engage those women who want to talk to you and better direct the conversation.
However, if you are running into ANY error where as soon as she gets a chance, she exits the conversation, the problem is not that your conversation sucks or is boring. It’s that your fundamentals need more work. With great fundamentals you can Aristotle or politics and women will hang on your every word.
Chase
Making her work
Re: Conversation
One girl even said, "You're making me work!"
Me: Work what?
Her: "You're making me think and I'm not awake yet!" (it was 3pm)
She was a friend, and I'm just chatting. But didn't know how seduction stuff worked its way to my default style of conversation. Either that, or I'm exhausting girls out because I'm missing a piece of the puzzle
That's it from Lawliet, reporting out!
Making Her Work
Lawliet-
If you’re getting a reaction like that, your conversations are not fun. They’re not enticing her to tell you about things she likes talking/thinking about, and are probably about impersonal things, or things that don’t seem to matter.
I’m pretty sure I’ve broken down some of your conversations in comments before; if I was you, I’d go back and review those and look for the errors you were making, and see if you’re still making them. I bet you are…
Chase
types of girls
Hi chase, thank you for your site! sorry for my bad english
speaking of types of girls, I'm puzzled by sexual experience types in your 4 type article.
inexperience = conservative?
or
innocent and naive like = conservative
or
sexy girls vs girls who don't make up pretty
i know an girl who dislike inneudos and do not play along even interested in boy, is this a sign? but she was ok talking about youtubbe video of eating animal penis one time
what are some symptoms for telling em?
last of, girl who knows about fwb, and sex from their friends but assuming not tried personally be considered conservative? if we can tell, good for girlfriend picking. how do you pick girls as girlfriend?
- Jay
Re: Types of Girls
Jay-
I would not equate “inexperienced” with “conservative”. I have slept with some very inexperienced girls who were not remotely conservative… I simply happened to be one of their firsts. And I have likewise slept with some quite experienced women who were pretty conservative in many ways, except they quite enjoyed dating men and occasionally let loose on vacation.
Nor am I equating “innocent/naïve” with “conservative” – a girl can be perfectly innocent in saying “Gays should be allowed to marry!” but that would not be considered a “conservative” point of view, for instance. She simply believes all people are roughly the same and the state should allow any adult to wed any other adult, and this is a perfectly innocent belief to have.
And women can be sexy whether they use makeup or not, just like women can use lots of makeup and still not be sexy. Sexy is mostly down to behavior traits, facial expressions, posture, gesture, voice tone, eye contact, etc.
I could not tell you what that means about the first girl from that limited snippet. You’ll have to get to know her better and get a feel for yourself. As for FWB and sex, pretty much every woman is familiar with these, at least in all the countries I’ve visited. How she feels about them is an indicator of whether she is “conservative” or not, though not necessarily a predictor of her behavior. Some women hate FWB, but still engage in it anyway. Other women think it sounds fun and exciting, yet never try it.
Personally, for evaluating girlfriends, I suggest you ignore her words and examine her actions. Not what does she say, but what does she do (and has she done). Also, some articles on evaluating girlfriends:
Chase
your opinion
i heard vin dicirlo denier justifier type idea, is it good identifying way?
A denier typically sees sex as special, whereas a justifier just sees it as fun. from his website
denier = conservative or inexperienced?
how approach differently?
- J
Vin's System
Jay-
Yeah, absolutely, Vin’s is a solid system and adds another dimension to meeting women / an additional way of tailoring your game to specific types of women. I reviewed it on our newsletter a while back (think it’s still in our autoresponder, too).
If you want to know more about it, I suggest you grab his course on the 8 types of women – it’s quite deep, a great course, and fully explains how to get each girl.
Chase
more skin
conservative / inexperience = more clothes and no pretty up?
liberal / experience = little clothes, sexy showing skin?
see girl with little clothes = not conservative
sorry for the posts split. my english is bad so equations hope you understand
- Jay
Skin / Makeup
Jay-
Sure, generally, women who are more conservative will show less skin. Less conservative women show more.
Makeup is less tied to conservativeness, at least in the West. There are plenty of conservative women who wear makeup, and plenty of liberal women who forego it. I suspect you’re not from the West though, and I will say that in Asia it seems like it’s mostly more liberal women who use makeup, while conservative women leave the makeup off. Skin / no skin is the same in Europe, Asia, and North America: more skin = less conservative, pretty reliably. Exception is at the beach.
Chase
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