There are three (3) ways a man can persist with a woman: actively, passively, and with a mix of both flavors of persistence. He must calibrate his persistence for it to work, though.Hey guys. Welcome back.
Contents
I have discussed calibration a lot lately. I wrote a series on basic calibration, covering these areas:
I followed up recently with advanced posts on calibration, addressing:
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Information gathering
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Managing arousal spikes (three posts)
Today I will add another layer to calibration: how you should persist with women.
Just how much should you push, and do you deal with her resistance? You can blindly press on until she says yes, without attempting to solve the root cause.
Sometimes things between you and a girl go smoothly on the first attempt.
Other times you will face some resistance (honestly, this happens more frequently when you are a beginner).
What causes resistance?
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Lack of comfort or a social frame – she doesn’t feel it is right socially to hook up with you.
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She fears feeling like a slut for being sexual around you or is afraid of being judged by others.
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Lack of compliance (“attraction”) which you can increase by using many of the powerful tools we teach here).
Often, you can increase your chances by solving the issue at hand. If she feels a lack of comfort, set a strong social frame (show more rapport, make her invest in you, display higher social value, befriend her friends).
Next week, I will write a post about what tools to use to handle different types of resistance. I’ll focus on calibrating by using the right tools for each form of resistance.
But first, we need to discern the different forms of persistence. That is, different strategies of persistence. I’ll discuss the benefits of each and indicate when to use them.
This post is suited for seducers of all levels.
Active Persistence
Say you are escalating and trying to pull her. She resists. Trying to keep escalating or worse, asking “what’s wrong” will not get you far.
Active persistence is when you keep pushing so she hopefully gives in. If you were escalating, and she resists, you keep pushing. If you are trying to get her home, and she rejects the extraction attempt, then active persistence means you keep asking until she says yes.
What could go wrong? Well, you may go too far and end up becoming a sexual harasser or even a rapist. Often I hear about men getting into trouble with the law because they had sex or attempted to have sex with a girl, which usually involved a high degree of active persistence.
But can this strategy work? Yes, sometimes it can. Everything can work “sometimes.” But we do not care about “sometimes.” We care about “most of the time.”
Pros and Cons of Active Persistence
Why could this strategy work? You push her enough that she eventually says, “okay, chill; I’ll go with you.” But this is not what I consider CLEAR consent. And even if the sex is consensual, the sex will be far from passionate, and the frame is off.
Usually, it will not work. Being pushed is annoying. Women, just like men, do not like to feel pushed. It may even lead to irritation and anger.
Even worse, doing so is needy. The frame is off. You are chasing her too much. Women do not like needy men.
Too much pushiness becomes off-putting and needy.The only merit of using this strategy is that you take the guilt of hooking up away from her. As we know, women fear feeling likes “sluts.” (I do not like the word; I am using the term for simplicity reasons. In my view, they are not “sluts.”) Women do not like being judged by others for being sexual with a stranger.
In this case, it “isn’t her fault” that she hooked up with you since she did say no multiple times, but you kept pushing. So the guilt is on you and not on her. This releases her from feeling responsible about the hook up, reducing the chance of resistance.
Similar logic applies when girls hook up when drunk. It isn’t their fault since they were drunk, right?
This means they can externalize the cause, or rather the blame for the sex that took place.
This factor is very real and should be considered. Fortunately, this factor is NOT unique to this form of persistence. It is a factor in all forms of persistence.
When to Use It?
So when should you use this form of persistence? Well, NEVER. But there may be some situations where this form of persistence could be efficient and even ethically justified: For instance, when she wants you to persist because she enjoys getting validated and wants to see how much of a man you are and if you are willing you are to go for what you want.
The problem is that it’s difficult to tell when you will be dealing with situations involving girls like this. And even if you have good indicators, the results of misjudging can lead to devastating consequences.
So, in general, you can toss out this form of persistence because it is risky. The situations where this form of persistence could work and be ethically justified have other forms that would work equally well without the risk.
I recommend not using this strategy. So let’s look at other forms of persistence.
Passive Persistence
This form of persistence usually involves increasing her compliance passively while trying to get her to come to you and make the move or make a move to escalate.
In the examples above, say you are escalating the vibe, and she resists. Instead of “pushing on” by continuing with what you were doing, you will break rapport to make her more compliant and willing to allow you to escalate later.
It’s similar if you try to isolate her. She says no, you break rapport to make her more compliant and win you back—win back rapport and win back your attention. To win you back, she likely will have to accept your request (in this case, the extraction and going back to your/her place).
How should you break rapport? Here are some examples:
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Freezing her out and turning a bit cold.
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Cut the interaction, walk away, and wait for her to make a move and re-engage (she will then be more likely to say yes to whatever you request).
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Talk to other girls in front of her (jealousy plots).
When she suddenly finds herself on the 'outside' as you move on without her, her resistance will sometimes start to melt away...How can this be seen as persistence? Well, she is resisting, right? So, the idea is to do something that gets her to accept your move/request. That’s persistence. Making her say yes will move the interaction forward. You get her to say “yes” when she initially said “no,” “maybe,” or “perhaps later.”
Women usually use this form of persistence to get what they want when they are not getting it. It’s always fun to use their strategy on them.
Let’s discuss the pros and cons of this strategy.
Pros and Cons of Passive Persistence
First, this strategy is safe. If you use this in its purest sense, you will not have issues with the law. Ethically, you will never be pushing someone to do something they do not want to do.
What legal risks do you put yourself in by ignoring her or talking to another girl? At worst, if she is your girlfriend, she may cause drama.
It is also extremely powerful when it works. However, it can backfire:
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You may easily trigger auto-rejections: she gives up on you because you seem unattainable.
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She may mirror your moves by freezing you out in return or start talking to other men. You risk causing frame wars (see my series on frame wars, avoiding them, and dealing with them when they occur).
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She may not be interested in you and will simply not care that you freeze her out or walk away. The exception is when you talk to other girls; that may get her interested due to social proof.
If you make her invest in you, you do not take away the blame of her having sex with you since she decided to make a move toward you.
When to Use It?
When should you use this strategy?
This strategy may be warranted any time you get a definite NO from a girl and serious resistance. This resistance makes any active attempt at dealing with it ethically shaky. You will lack compliance and face high risk. You risk losing her, which is not legally/ethically risky. You have the chance of a high reward if it works, and it may turn things around.
I highly recommend this strategy with girls when you are not sure where you are at with them. Losing her is not a problem, so the risk will not significantly affect you.
I also advise using this strategy when all else is not working. You have tried persisting different ways, and now you want to use heavier weaponry. The lighter forms of persistence did not work, so why not go for a more potent but risky form? I will discuss lighter forms of resistance in the next section. Keep in mind that this is a great last-resort strategy or useful in cases where the testing or resistance is significant.
This strategy is also good in early game whenever you face serious resistance. You haven’t invested much into the interaction, and you do not have much to lose from using this. If it doesn’t work, you can also re-engage later and act like nothing happened (go from a passive form of persistence to a passive-active form, which I will discuss next).
Passive-Active Persistence
This strategy is a hybrid of both passive and active methods of persistence. It’s the strategy I advocate in my numerous posts discussing persistence.
- How to Be Persistent with Girls Without Looking Desperate
- How to Be Persistent with Girls: Two Strategies
The idea is to mix both active and passive elements:
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Use a passive move whenever she resists.
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After using the passive move and seeing some effect, opt for an active move once you feel the passive element has impact (build enough compliance).
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Rinse and repeat until it works, but as I have said multiple times, persist a maximum of three times unless you face serious resistance, then walk away or opt for a very passive strategy.
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The third attempt should always be your last attempt (“last resort”). You should switch to a passive strategy (the golden rule of three attempts is a safety rule: if you fail on your third attempt, you are unlikely to get the girl, and in the rare cases you do, the pulls usually turn fishy).
In my older post on persistence, I identified this form of persistence as “active persistence,” but now I realize that this is wrong: it really is a form of passive-active persistence. This is especially true considering I recommend adding passive elements to “active persistence,” so I call it “passive-active” persistence.
This post is a new take and an update to my older post. However, feel free to check out my older post to get the theory from a different angle. I also go over a few things I don’t discuss here. So if persistence is something you struggle with or are curious about, I recommend checking out my older post at the link above.
Let’s use our previous examples. Say you are escalating, and she resists. Consider this just token resistance. With this strategy, you would go cold for a bit and walk away or talk to other girls if necessary.
Then re-engage and try again.
How much should your break rapport? It depends on:
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The severity of the resistance – (if light, just go a bit cold or pull your hands away. If more severe, then walk away from her for a while before re-engaging).
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How many “persistence attempts” you have made – the first time, you may consider going lighter; the second time, a bit harder; the third attempt, go hardcore (but switch to passive persistence).
Follow this same template for extraction attempts.
Pros and Cons of Passive-Active Persistence
Passive-active persistence is the go-to method. It is typically safe unless you are dealing with SEVERE resistance.
It’s powerful, and you don’t have as much risk of losing her (auto-rejection or causing frame wars) as the passive strategy.
You maintain the benefits of active persistence and take the blame for sex that took place because of the active form of persistence.
After ignoring her for a bit with passive persistence, you switch back again to active -- unless she resists you a second (or third) time.This strategy takes the pros of both approaches without the cons.
The only real con with this strategy is that sometimes the resistance is too severe, or she is testing you too hard. If that happens, a more powerful tool such as passive persistence is better.
Passive persistence is more powerful than passive-active persistence but can backfire because you may lose the girl.
When to Use It?
Use passive-active persistence any time if the seduction is not too severe. You should always deal with the third attempt as a “severe” case of resistance.
Again, this is the go-to strategy.
It is well-suited for every phase of the interaction, especially the mid and late game since it can be disheartening to lose the girl at that point. However, if the resistance is too severe, you will have no choice but to opt for a passive strategy.
It can work in the early phase of the interaction, although I see little risk in trying a passive strategy and seeing if this can turn things around. You can always re-engage and turn to a passive-active strategy if the passive strategy fails. Note that this is for the early game only in situations where you are not escalating and not doing anything that could potentially get you in trouble if uncalibrated. For example, dealing with some frumpy girls (bitch shield).
That said, you cannot switch from a passive to passive-active strategy during the late game where you are dealing with potential resistance linked to escalation or extraction attempts. What you are dealing with is trickier.
She is more likely to be more invested at that point and is likely to mirror your moves. You will lose the frame war by giving up and surrendering when you go back to her. This will make you seem needy, as you will accept her frame and lose compliance—not desirable.
All in all, this is a safe and powerful go-to form of persistence.
Conclusion
In this article, we discussed three forms of persistence:
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Active (actively plowing through her resistance)
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Passive (taking a step back to get her to make a move)
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Passive-active (taking a step back not to come off as needy or pushy, to increase compliance, and try to plow through)
You should discard the first strategy (active).
The second strategy (passive) is more powerful but risky because you may lose the girl or face a frame war. However, it is the safest strategy when it comes to ethical and legal matters. It can be useful early when you have little to lose. If that doesn’t work, opt for a passive-active strategy only during the early phase. In the later phase, you have no choice but to stick to your guns and keep using the passive approach until she “surrenders.” Also, use this form when dealing with severe resistance and on your third attempt at persisting (which categorizes the resistance as severe).
Employ the third strategy (passive-active) in all phases of the interaction unless the resistance is severe. It’s the go-to method. However, you only have two attempts at this strategy before you must switch to the passive method on your third attempt.
Next week I will add another layer to persistence, introducing resistance busters into the mix. I’ll discuss how to calibrate to different types of resistance: knowing which tool to use for each type of resistance and how to fit those tools within the models presented here.
So, stay tuned.
Best,
Alek
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