Should You Pay for a Date? | Girls Chase

Should You Pay for a Date?

Chase Amante

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pay for a dateIt used to be the way things always were in America: if a man and a woman went on a date, the man paid. No two ways about it.

It's now not quite as ubiquitous as it used to be, but it is still a very common mindset. Many women expect men to pay for the first date. Many men would even feel embarrassed to not pay for the first date. Of course they pay for dates! That's just how it's done, and anything else would be classless and rude.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

damn, too late

hey chase btw thanks for all the advice
im having my first date tomorrow, its been 7 years lol

bah, iv already agreed on paying for the movies before reading this page, i dont think its very manly going back on your word,
15$ isent much anyways but i know the idea behind is not to imply im *BUYING* her attraction, maybe ill tell her to buy the snacks to compensate lol
but anyways shes very happy and find me very attractive because she gets very hype when she sees me and i sense she pretty much wants what i want, nothing deeper other than a good sexual relationship, she is very open to the idea, we both know we will only lovers, but nothing more

hey chase, if she falls in love, how do i break this up?
i might find it scary if she clings to me to much, she seemed a little too eager, too happy when i told her about the date..shes a little bit of an oddball,i lovee oddballs.... i clearly mentioned i like my independance too and not looking for close companions.... hmmm

iv always had this problem with girls is trying too hard not hurting them.

but what do i do if she falls in love? i like her alot, but im sensing she likes me much more and it might stop her from really lisening to the words im saying. i really wanna share a good time with her, but im afraid if she starts blowing up an imaginary bubble that might eventualy pop

Anonymous's picture

hi everyone! i am a girl and i am with a boyfriend whom whenever we go out for a date, it will always be 50-50 for paying for food, taxi, etc. although we have been in a relationship for quite a long time, i am still not comfortable with it. i don't know what keeps me with him (love i guess?).

I've been in a relationship before in which a guy always pay for everything, and that feels pretty awesome! it makes you feel really, really special. now that i am with this kind of guy, i don't know why i am still sticking with him. it always happen many times that it really becomes a TURNOFF! but i don't know how i will deal with him. i want to tell him about it, but i don't want to make myself a face of money! sometimes i feel embarassed paying for him. i am never proud of doing it! For me, it makes the masculinity of a guy less. in our relationship, i feel that i am a guy most of the time. i also feel less significant with this. i dont know what to do. i am reading a lot of articles about this situation, and this article also doesn't help. i am really sorry Chase.

one thing that i can say, it is always a turnon for a guy who pays for a girl. i even feel so jealous to those women who has a man who could pay for them. it keeps their girl so special, treating them like a princess. i hope my guy will change in the future. he has always been a good boyfriend to me. the only thing that matters is how i can i feel really special with him when i am always paying half or 75% of the bill whenever we go out even it is his invitation.

girls here please help me. thanks a lot!!!

darth jones's picture

hey chase

I've just discovered this website! great article!

now I have a question. So I like to go out with girls and keep it super cheap. I like to grab ice cream or starbucks with a girl.you know something casual like you said in the article. would you offer to pay for her since its cheap, dont do anything and see if she will pay for herself, or suggest in some way that you aren't going to pay for her?

thanks
darth

JP's picture

I was a guy who always paid for dates. I dated a girl for 6 weeks (approx 15 dates) and she never even offered to pay. When I finally had enough, I stopped calling. She got upset, asked why, etc. I told her that for me she wasn't girlfriend material. Well that was the biggest insult to her. When she asked why, I told her I was tired of her not reciprocating and contributing to expenses. I told her there were plenty of available women who did take turns paying and those are the ones I prefer to be in a relationship with. Those are girlfriend material for me.

Well guess what? She wanted to take me out. I didnt give her an ultimatum. I just made it seem like I dumped her and then she wanted to fix it to get back on board. But the "girlfriend material" line worked like a charm. I went out with her 2 more times (she paid for both) but I had met someone else in the process and focused on her.

The moral here is to pay for first few. Then when she has sex, she is now invested. Then you use the "girlfriend material" line on her if she hasnt reciprocated. I hope that the girl does at least offer within 3 dates, but when she doesn't this is what I do. It has worked several times. Call a girl a gold digger and it doesnt bother her. Call her a princess and it doesnt bother her. But tell her she isnt girlfriend material and she will go crazy and try to disprove it.

Charlie Kilford's picture

If you tend to 'first date' in places where there's a strong expectation to pay (restaurants, theatres, etc) you're doing it wrong and risk being 'boy-friend' zoned.

Take her to a bar and, if you have to, buy her one drink. Chances are she'll buy the next one. That's true of the UK at least, given our predilection for buying 'rounds'.

Anonymous's picture

I'm a woman and I can relate to the women who have been outraged by the "pay your own bill" idea!

Here's my perspective:

Girls,
If a guy asks you to pay your half of the bill on the first date, I'd doubt if the relationship is gonna go much further. If it were me.. I'd pay my half and then run like hell!
If you're looking for short term, then I guess it's fine. Long term? Probably not.
For long term, a guy has to fall into the category of a lover as well as a provider. I don't think I need to date a guy for long term just for his penis! (It's not too hard to find one!)
Nevertheless, you could offer to pay for you're half out of pure courtesy. If he agrees, well... he probably doesn't care whether he sees you again or not OR he is financially stained. You can meet him again or not. And, guess what? You're even!
If however, he pays your half, you could hope for another date! Or better, you could ask him out the next time! Again, thereby, making it even!

Guys,
If you asked a woman out, you are expected to pay. It's rude to ask your guest to pay for the dinner you invited them for. This kind of "I asked you out, but pay your half" gesture will turn off most women! Even if she refuses, you can't blame her! What if you invited her to a place that is over her budget, even if she is a working woman? I would be pissed if you asked me to pay my week's worth of earning on a fancy place of your choice.
If she invited you and asked you to pay, you've got the right to get pissed off and insist she pay the bill.
And by paying her half of the bill, you're implying that you'd probably see her again! So, if you really don't like a woman ask her to pick up her tab! It's a WIN-WIN!
And if you can get laid in the process..well... it's a bonus!!

Anonymous's picture

Ok, this article really pisses me off!!! Guys who take girls out on a date and don't pay are immature boys who don't know the protocol. A guy that asks a girl out on a date and pays, even though the woman offers to pay is a MAN!

It's not about the money you spend on the girl, but if you, as a man ask a girl out on any kind of activity you should provide for the activity which means if you ask a girl out for dinner-you should pay for the dinner!!! No questions asked!
Its a sense of decency.......any mature man who is looking for a real woman will know this.

If you think a woman rejects you because you paid for dinner-think again! It has nothing to do with you paying for dinner. She was probably not into you to begin with, or maybe she didn't feel the chemistry on the dates. Stop saying it has something to do with you paying for the date. This article only makes more decent guys becomes stingy. And stingy guys are very, very unattractive!! Ask any girl!!!

ExpectTheBest's picture

I have been taught in a rather traditional style growing up, and honestly I find it hard to imagine a guy not paying for the date...-like I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it.

Please help me out here; If you're on a date with a girl, how do you get her to pay for herself/food?! Is this something you tell her she'll have to do before yall go out, or do you just pay your portion and wait for her to pay hers?

Anonymous's picture

I don't know... my boyfriend pays for everything and always has. Most of my girlfriend's boyfriends do as well. We are 8/10 and above, educated and/or business owners/investors in our own right. Our ages range from late twenties to early thirties. I'm not being arrogant as this is anonymous. I just want to give you some context.

I notice that my friends and I have high standards for our looks, bodies, careers, and friendships. This also means we have high standards for our men.

The men that we date are generous, ambitious, confident, well-off, and successful in some way, some are high-rollers. They are in their 30's and early 40's.

Then again, you can say the women they date are hot and sexy. They certainly are not messing around with plain fat girls. I think it's really complicated, women fall in love and are attracted to a man's character. Well how can you separate their achievements and successes from that? I don't think it's fair to call women "gold-diggers" unless they just sit around and don't work. Men like hot girls so how is that different then women wanting successful men?

At least you guys are being conditioned to become more successful, us women get the short end of the stick. Beauty fades and although 40 is the new 30, it's a losing game. That's why while I think my man should strive to be successful enough to provide for us both (in case we have kids one day and I'm out of commission for 5 years), I will always have equally high standards for myself.

I'd also like to add that personally it's a huge turn off for me to pay on dates. I go dutch with my friends, not lovers. It makes it feel platonic to me, like I'm one of the guys. Of course I have no problem paying if he's just a friend or colleague.

340Breeze's picture

A lot of women on here have said that if they have to pay on a date then it makes them feel like one of the guys. Seems to me the underlying mindset is that they equate being treated special with a guy paying for them. Trade money for special feelings it sounds like. I don't know why this mindset has evolved but for me I feel no more special if a woman pays on a date or not. What really gets me going is a woman who recognizes my talents: conversational and flirting ability, leadership qualities, my intelligence, and she points them out to me and lets me know how my actions positively impact her emotions: how Good I make her feel. I am coming at dating and providing from an angle of giving good feelings... And who pays for who on a date has nothing to do with this. The point of dating a special woman to me isn't to pay for the date, but is instead to make her heart flutter when she closes her eyes and sees my face. I have unfortunately experienced spending time with women here in America (I'm not from here) who are happy to take (men paying on dates, etc) and have little to nothing to give in return. They have this false sense of entitlement that says men must satisfy near stratospheric criteria before he is considered dateable, when many of these same women have little charm or intrigue or flirtatious sexiness to return to excite and captivate me. It's as if they are more interested in the experience of dating (men initiate, invite, chase, try to overcome feigned indifference or playing hard to get, men paying for dates=he is a MAN and thus him paying equates into her feeling special) than they are in how the MAN actually FEELS when he is in their presence. What so many of these women fail to realize is that a man that has choice with women (the ones who they actually want to date and keep as a husband) is not fazed by the fact that he is on a date with a pretty woman that has 10 suitors competing for her. He doesn't buy in to her false sense of superiority and instead he gets annoyed exceedingly quickly when this woman has no charm and instead views herself as a prize that must be won over. As a man It takes submerging yourself into the vagaries of dating and developing a consistent winning strategy to develop the confidence and skill necessary to win. And once you have, it's smooth sailing because the shackles of approach anxiety are lifted and once you have enough women in your pipeline only the ones who are the most charming, humble, and giving are the ones worth keeping and marrying. But it's hard to attack head-on the fear of rejection and abandonment. This is why few men clean up with ladies. I have found the most significant woman of my life this way... A connection deeper than she has with anyone else on this planet. And she lets me know this. To her this is more valuable than any date I could take her on and pay (or not pay) for. And for me, that's all the validation I need. All these years of hard work has paid off.

Cheers,

340Breeze.

Eric's picture

Lot of anger on here, but really why?

We're all playing this dating game to get closer and build bonds with that someone special. As much as it may "Turn Off" some ladies that guys don't want to pay for dates, look at it from the guy's perspective. This isn't the 1950's and there is a world wide recession going on. Nothing is a bigger turn off for a guy than a woman who makes as much or more than him insisting that he pay for everything. I've been in a couple relationships like that and yeah, we went our separate ways pretty quickly.

My grandfather would drill into us that the gentleman pays, but he came from a generation where women didn't work or if they did made significantly less than their male counter parts.

That being said the article gave some really cool ideas on breaking down the dating game. A couple women earlier in the comments section said that they actually didn't like the big fancy dinner scene because hey, lets be honest here, it looks and feels almost like a job interview. Why do we need to go through the formalities and head games of dating? The article paves a way for us to get around the stupid archaic rules laid down god knows when and lets us actually have fun with one another.

When I've gone out on dates that were dutch, they tended to be more informal, it was pleasant, and the sex was great too. When I went the formal route other formalities would crop up such as : No sex until A,B,C (Dating 1 month, meeting parents, marriage, etc). What happens when my sex is regulated to time tables or arbitrary rules? I run the opposite way.

I know some will disagree, but like Chase said this is MY PERSPECTIVE from MY LIFE and from my dating experience my dates have really fallen into these 2 patterns.

So yes this article rings true and advice for the women: PLEASE! Don't listen to the other women around you. Ask guys out. Go dutch or pay for a date. Don't put off sex because you think he won't want a relationship with you, if you want it, grab him and throw him on the bed. Trust me the only consequence you'll experience is one happy, loving boyfriend.

Male model 's picture

Woman asked for equale rights two generations ago. Single woman aged between 24 and 30 now earn 8% more than men because more woman have a degree than men. When two woman go out together as friends who earn similar incomes, they usually share the cost. When a woman goes out with a man she sould stop this sexists selfish behaviour of exsploiting some one for money. It's not about taking a free walk in the park it's about woman being cheap and not opening there purse when a man is involved.

Anonymous's picture

I get that you're trying to be fair and equal, but guess what? Just because women work at the same jobs as men does not mean they are equal. We are generally less physically strong, we are more susceptible to adult sexual and physical assault by a man (rather than the other way around), we tend to excel in more interactive and creative roles (rather than in jobs that are logical, mathematical or require the use of handiwork), we get paid THIRTY percent less on average in the same job a man does, we are expected to wear makeup and look gorgeous on a first date, and let's not even get started on how you wouldn't even be here if it weren't for the LABOR of your mother. It's great that women are as equal with men today than ever before - we work, we go to college, we own property, we live alone, we drink, we smoke, we party. We also have to be more cautious, have a double standard many times on dates and in reality, and make less than you - this may not be your fault, but, in the end, you are the more advantageous gender and as such, are trying to shirk out of your centuries old, internationally recognized expectation to pay.

I am not a native born American, but I've lived here long enough (18 of my 28 years) to realize that most American men try to use the equality excuse to not pay. American women have come to expect it. But foreign born men - whether they be Russian, French, or Mongolian - are respectful enough to pay for AT LEAST the first couple of drinks (or just one, if there are no sparks) because they GET the social dynamic. Maybe, as you say, American women are turned off by the "provider" part of your explanation, but I don't think you know a thing about women. You never got a one night stand after paying? Poor you. Most women are courteous enough to bail after one drink and they realize they don't care one bit about you. Believe me, they'd rather go hang out with better people if they're not into you. I have slept with a man or two after the first date - when they've paid, I enjoy their company, and I am attracted to them either physically, emotionally, or both. The fact that they're paying is a bonus, showing that they are courteous and aren't cheap. No one wants a one night stand or a relationship with a tightwad - believe me, I and many women directly correlate the two.

So, if you don't want to get laid, and you don't want a meaningful relationship, listen to this guy. Or date a 19 year old college student who is perfectly fine with Burger King as the first date and will happily pay for herself because she doesn't yet understand the universal dating dynamic between men and women. Good luck!

Bryan's picture

Cheapness is refusing to pay for yourself.
Cheapness is not refusing to pay for someone else.

Women who post that they feel great when a man pays for them and feel terrible when they don't are just saying, "Hey, I like living on someone else's wallet." That's being cheap. Or you could call it greed. In any event, it is a selfish attitude to expect to be provided for. Relationships are taking care of each other, not taking care of one person at the expense of another.

Elvis's picture

White Washed Prostitution & Misandry. Some woman have a false sense of entitlement, I have known woman who have been outraged when some guy has deliberately left his wallet behind and forced the woman to pay on the first date. I just tell these woman now you know how some men feel when you have been freeloading off them for years, you just got a dose of your own medicine, yes i feel sorry for you & all those men you have financial exploited over the years. Some men have been so brainwashed by there mothers during childhood ( a self serving woman in most cases) that the abuse by woman against men while dating is OK
Even using the excuse who ever asks should pay, thats not an excuse, thats still exploitation, I know that is an excuse woman use, is just self serving as statistically only 3% of woman have ever asked a man out on a fist date, so that's hardly fair as men are obligated to do the asking if they want to have a relationship. By the way the one occasion in my life a woman had the decency to ask me out on a first date she asked to split the bill anyway, It's just purely one sided sexsium , just away of justifying discrimination against men.
Woman keep saying its just nice to be taken care of, well guess what, don't you think a man would enjoy having a woman take him out with door to door service all expenses paid, all for the chance of a relationship or sex, but with no obligation.
Do you think men actually like you as a person, if you have this arrogant, self serving, sexist, selfish, discriminating, obnoxious, user, exploiter mentality. Do you really think all those characteristics shown on a fist date make you a nice person & you think you deserve some kind of respect when you display such disgusting character specially when single woman have achieved equal rights with single men, as single woman now earn more than single men on average.
Woman obligating a men to ask them out, obligating them to pay on a first date using the threat of blackmail of remaining single if he don't pay. This all adds up to disgusting misandry.
My next point is the reach, this is when woman reach out & offer to pay, knowing men won't except because if they except they will be open to rejection or blackmail, if men take the offer there is no chance of any relationship, its just another form of blackmail. When woman offers to pay it should be genuine and you should insist on paying to earn respect& if you want a second date with this man, you should show your interest and tell him you only go on a second date if yo split on the first, this will impress him, then he will no your genuine not a fraud, he will see you as a nice person, not a prostitute just for sex, he will want to have a relationship with you as a human & not feel he is going out with a white washed prostitute.
You woman ort to be ashamed of your selves treating men in this manner, . It's about time woman starting showing men equal respect & equal rights, as equal rights are not just woman's rights, there human rights, and meeting men half way on a date instead if displaying your selfish self serving attitude is disgusting, it's no wonder many men don't actually like there girlfriends, it's just sex, there not actually a nice person if there main aim is to financially exploit you while they selfishly spend there own money on them selves, buying there new cars, overseas holidays, property while having there entertainment expenses subsidised by men who earn less than they do, that is so selfish it discussing.
Woman now enjoy the benefits of having equal rights.
Remember asking you to give me equals rights implies they are yours to give, instead I must demand you stop trying to deny me the right all humans deserve.
Equal rights is not woman's rights, it's human rights.

Claire's picture

Does it really make me a bad person for being traditional?

When a man pays for me I feel special but everyone speaks here like I am scum who likes to live off someone else's wallet.

Now I am a hard working woman and I take care of myself and my autistic brother on my own. I am independent and I can easily pay for myself as I always have. But I simply would like it if the man paid on the first date if he invited me. Do I want to use him for his money? No. Is he a walking wallet? No. But I simply would appreciate it. Is there something wrong with appreciating that?

Betty's picture

Do you really think cherry picking tradition to your own advantage makes you a good person, if so your deluding your self. Im a woman & I think your attitude is disgusting. We are all human & we should all be treating each other with respect, exploitation with a bias on gender is not respect.

Anonymous's picture

Lot of opinions on here. Lots of angry men, furious that they are expected to pay for women. Lots of indignant women wondering why they should pay when it was the guy who wanted the date in the first place.

If a guy doesn't invest in paying for the date, it sends out a message that he doesn't want to invest in the girl. Which means he's after sex as quickly as possible.

Guess what? Most women know this.

Any seriously good looking woman (the only kind of woman that men on this site are interested in) isn't going to bother with a guy like that, when there are men who are willing to invest in her.

Where it gets confusing is that there are a lot of very ugly men (yes, women judge on looks too....) who throw a lot of money at women and then furiously complain that the woman wouldn't sleep with them!

Newsflash: she wouldn't have slept with you.....whatever you did. It certainly isn't because you paid for the date!

And the guys that manage to get women to pay their own way? Newsflash: they are above average looking or extremely charismatic!

The woman isn't sleeping with him because he didn't pay!

This isn't rocket science guys... Don't let the obvious things become lost in all the analysis...

The best thing an average looking guy (most of you) can do is to take his date somewhere cheap and pay for it himself.

Understand that you are dealing with a lot of competition and you will end up with a girl who cares about you maternally if she has to worry about your finances and pay for herself.

But, for all those bitter men out there (and both men and women have great cause to be bitter about the dating game) is it NOT about money.

Gold diggers aside (easy to spot - just tell women you're poor - they'll leave you alone - sorted!) women are more into looks (more than you think) and confidence.

So, what IS paying for her about? It's about being a sexy, in-charge, take control, kind of guy. That's what makes it exciting. Women want equality in life - no one is politically correct (one way of the other) in bed.

I remember being in a shop with a guy I was thinking of dating, and I had picked some sweets - around 50p. He grabbed them and paid for them with his own things - he didn't ask, it was instinctive.

It was sexy. I was shocked by how sexy it was.

I wish I could explain why but clearly most women feel the same about this.

So, how do guys know it's not about money? Very simple. If a girl calls an expensive restaurant to make the reservation and the guy pays, that isn't sexy - it's horrible. The man hasn't taken charge, he has just been a good boy and picked up the bill. That guy isn't getting laid.

The guy who takes a girl to a cheap noodle bar for a date or a drive and a picnic - but organises it himself and takes care of all costs?

He's the guy who's getting laid.

Betty's picture

Paying to get laid, that suspiciously sounds like prostitution to me. I don't need any man paying for me to get me into bed & about a man taking charge, do we really need to have bosses & controls freaks in relationships. I earn my own money, what I like in a man, is my hubby, a man who is honesty, has integrity and manners. We are both equal partners, we share everything & we split the bill on out first second & third dates. My hubby was not the best looking guy, but he always had the most beautiful woman chasing after him when I met him & he has told me he always split the bill. I suggest this woman go get a job and stop exploiting people based on gender bias, before she sends equal rights back to the dark ages & woman become slaves again. Slavery is not sexy.

Anonymous's picture

Once again, it is about the money. The old tradition of dating where the man pays also includes the man choosing and ordering for the woman. If it's really about being in charge and taking control, why is this aspect of dating left out? All of those who say it's not about the money are lying.

So really, as soon as she orders for herself, then she should pay for herself as well.

Anonymous's picture

So, all I have is 2 cents to drop in this void of dissenting opinions. haha...no void, just kidding, only a great deal of social expectations and 2 sexes trying to figure them out. Though mainly this seems focused on women's expectation, or more so, on what they communicate by actions. Clearly "Women" aren't all the same, but I have recently faced this very real issue with a girl and have found this:
Immediately she sent signals that she was interested in me, I asked her out, we went, and have gone on several dates. Sex isn't my main focus, I mainly want to enjoy myself and get to know her. The dates go wonderfully but there is an UNDENIABLE uneasiness from here when I want to pay. It's really the only time in the date that she's dissatisfied with me, or tries to communicate that I'm doing something wrong. I'm absolutely not in the friend zone, she's constantly asking me to do things and very flirtatious. My confusion is very simple: As a man I was trained to understand that in dating, THAT was what a man does. And to many women it still is. This girls was more interested in being my equal and not "Bought", which is purely a perspective issue. As I believe her my equal, I'll abide.
If I have any advice, it's for women to communicate what they want/expect and for men to be cautious about listening TOO much to what the average woman says "Women" want, and focus more on which guys are getting follow up dates.

Easy, right?

Jess's picture

To be honest, although I do feel bad for a moment if a guy insists on paying (no matter what it is), afterwards I remark on what a charming man he is. And I like charming men. I don't know many that don't. I like a man who will be sweet with me, open doors and be chivalrous, offer me his jacket as we walk home and will just be a pure gentleman.

Plus, I always make sure to pay for something as a thanks for him paying. He buys me a drink, I buy him one. He buys lunch, I pay for the taxi. Sometimes it's not an exact 50/50 split because a taxi might cost more or less than dinner, but still I don't want him to pay for it all as nice as it is.

Anonymous's picture

Any guy who expects me to pay on a first date, I never see again. Not interested. He comes across as cheap, incapable of taking charge, kind of a wuss to be honest. If you aren't prepared to pay for a date, whatever kind of date that is, then don't ask a girl out.
No woman wants to sleep with a wuss :)
It is true though that just because you pay the bill does not guarantee you'll get lucky, but you have a better chance of seeing the girl again or at least being able to talk to her and some things can develop over time.
I think it all comes down to what a man is willing to "invest"... the more money he's willing to spend (relative to his income/lifestyle), the more interested he is in either sex or a relationship. It shows his level of interest in either... up to you to figure out where his interest lies.
I won't date anyone who doesn't willingly, without hesitation, reach for that bill and regardless of whether it was a good date or not, pay that bill and thank me for my company. THAT sets a good impression as a PERSON. and gives him a much better chance of either getting lucky down the road and/or ending up in a relationship and when someone treats you with respect like that, that makes a woman want to give as well! When a man expects you to pay or go dutch, it just feels like a friend thing, it kills the attraction, it kills the romance, it essentially kills any chance of it going anywhere because you feel like he just isn't that into you. so why would you want to persue anything with someone like that?
And YES "some" women take advantage of the fact that most men pay on dates, so what, "some" men take advantage of women with low self esteem and sleep with them and walk away - it goes both ways, if you are going to go into every date expecting the worst and putting your worst foot forward, then well you get what you give.

Anonymous's picture

Her money is her money & his money is her money. That is so selfish & you wonder why men don't love woman do much anymore. If men only want you for sex, its because your not being a nice considerate person, what is there to like if your extorting some one financially. It's hard to believe woman still think like this in the 21st century it's so selfish. It's so disgusting to treat another human as a second class citizen based on gender.. Your not considering the other person, that person has just as much right to equal respect as you.
I continuously get woman asking why I don't have a girlfriend & I tell these woman, how would you feel if on a first date you felt obligated to pay for the man or he would not want to see you again, you would feel blackmailed, would you enjoy a persons company under threat of blackmailed, come on, how would you feel if you had to pay for a man on every occasion, even if they earn more money, how would you feel if a man did the reach at the restaurant knowing if you excepted his offer there would be no chance of seeing him again, how would you feel if you had to ask for the date, knowing if you don't ask, men never will. Woman would not like this, they would be appalled in fact, so treating snother human being in that way is appalling & disgusting.
Dating is too one sided. If woman really respected men in an equals society this discussion would not even exist, woman would ask men out & pay there fair share. Please stop making the excuse woman are payed less then men, as not every woman is payed less than every man, not all woman are disadvantaged compared to men.When considering the mainstream dating demographic of young single men with out children & young single woman with out children. This group of woman are actually more educated, more than equal than there male friends, earn more than there male friends. If anything woman in this group should be paying for men more often than men pay for woman & ask men out more often than they get asked out. So most young single woman without children, should be paying for more than 50 % of the cost of first dates considering there income advantage over men as shown in this news article. http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html
In fact this article shows woman in this demographic should be paying for at least 60% of the cost of fist dates depending on the city they are living in.

Anonymous's picture

I think you are over analysing it

This is how it works for me and just about all women I know, If I know I would sleep with a guy, then I'd let him pay for dinner.

If I know that I will sleep with him, I will never let him pay for dinner. That way I owe nothing, and I wont feel obliged to meet up again.

Maria

Anonymous's picture

Yes I don't mind letting her pay for dinner, for the chance of sex either. I will tell that to my first date next time & let her pay for the whole bill, to see her reaction. If the reaction is negative, than your still justifying the exploitation of men.

dude's picture

Good points Chase. Paying for the date has always backfired on me. The genuine women who do like u are happy to split the tab and then get laid.

Anonymous's picture

Ive been out on 4 dates with this one girl and have planned a 5th, we get along real well, flirt, kiss here and there during the dates, hold hands, etc... We have bar hopped a few times to extend the dates and leads to making out when its time to go home. However, she hasnt even lifted a finger or offered to pay for ANYTHING. How do I get her to at least offer or pay?

Anonymous's picture

Be a man not a mouse. Tell her your giving her the flick because you find her selfish due to the fact she never offers to pay. If she apologises & offers to pay for the next date to keep you, than except her apology. If however she makes an issue about men having to pay, than move on she was not worth it, but first ask for your money back. You should never let a woman control your mind because you think she is doing you a favour by making out, or think making out is a reward for paying for her, she enjoys the making out equally to you, if she however get financial reward from making out she is enjoying it much more than you. My point is why did you let her get away with not splitting the bill on the first date. On your next first date, let her chose where to go, under the stipulation the cost is low. Before you start ordering your meal or spending money, just tell the girl strait, I prefer to split the bill, if she is ok with the offer, than she is a keeper, if she don't except rationality as being fair, after all the destination was her choice, you have been more than reasonable giving her that choice, then don't waist your time with some one who is clearly sexist & inconsiderate. Then just go ahead & pay your share, what she spent on her self is not your responsibility.

Anonymous's picture

It is a free country.
I would NEVER sleep with a guy like the one who just posted.

The men who date me, pay for the dates, AND they know how to spell.

And some of them get the best sex of their lives.

It's a gamble...

Professor Jesus's picture

The informal date goes a really long way. In fact, if you dress down (sneakers, t-shirt, jeans), on a first date it really shows them that you do this a lot and if it's not her tonight it will be someone else tomorrow night. Don't even shave.

Take her somewhere where you can just beat the crap out of her in some type of game. It doesn't matter what it is: pool, bowling, darts, shuffleboard, air hockey. Just make sure to talk a lot of trash while you are spanking her. If she beats you, make sure she knows you had a rock in your shoe, or your arm is a little sore.

Many women are absolute cheapskates as the author has pointed out, and anyone with a penis will have experienced. As far as paying goes, try it any way you like and just do whatever gives the best outcomes. Follow Tom Leykis' rule of never spending $40 on a date if you do decide to pay.

Jordan4's picture

A bunch of fully grown adult women who blindly expect another adult to pay for their expenses; calling someone else cheap.......

That's a good one.

Zac 's picture

When do you think it's appropriate to start paying for the date. What are the signs to let you know hey maybe I should pay this time or not to pay..? Thanks a lot

Anonymous's picture

When your in a steady relationship, it OK to start taking turns in paying. Before that time you split the bill. Once your in that steady relationship, you can make a rational decision who is going to be the first one to pay. Maybe start with a special occasion like her or his birthday depending who's come first.

David's picture

As far as the old tradition of men paying for women, I agree with it; If we were in the 1950's because back then, women truly did not have equal wages and society even dictated that they should not hold jobs. There were strict gender roles due to the culture of the times and it made sense. It absolutely would be cheap for a man back then to expect the women to pay for her half or both because of the logistics of her not working.

Times change and the reason men have such a problem with it nowadays is that women ARE working and getting paid the same for the amount of hours worked. (Technically women are paid less than men but not because of discrimination. Women tend to choose for more life balance, maternity leave and work less than men, thus get paid less. Men tend to be less happy but have a tendency to be more workaholics than women, thus making more money. With that being said, don't bring up the "77 cents to a dollar" issue as it's been proven to be false.)

The problem lies with the hypocrisy of the entire thing. Paying for both portions of the date does not equate to men not being gentlemen. He can be a complete douchebag and still pay for the date and also be a gentleman and only pay for his half! Although, expecting for men to always pay for both portions in the modern era definitely does not make her a classy lady. A gentleman respects a woman, is polite, courteous, positive and confident. None of those qualities change simply because the gentleman pays for his portion of the bill. If your night of fun and great conversation is overshadowed by the fact he chooses to only pay for his portion and that is a deal breaker, then the woman is selfish, shallow and quite simply put, not relationship material.

Women and men are not that that much different from each other apart from a pair of chromosomes. We're both adults searching for a companion to have fun with and possibly more. Neither is better than the other and gender roles are beginning to show their flaws; that they're inherently full of discrimination. Women are not prizes to be won, men are not hunters and women aren't prey. The only comparison that comes close to this is that men tend to approach women far more and that's only because of hormones, because men want sex A LOT more than women do. (Just go to Craigslist personals and compare the amount M4M vs. W4W personals. Not to mention the amount of cheating in relationships goes like this; Man and Man > Man and Woman > Woman and Woman. To quote Dan Savage, a smart intellectual on the subject, "Clearly the problem with monogamy is dick.”)

The idea of paying for a complete stranger to win them over and earn "points" (ludicrous idea) is one of self entitlement and selfishness. Taking your wallet out of the equation increases the chances two people will get to know each better and hit it off.

I've been dating quite a bit lately and ironically, the dates where she shared her half or paid for both of us (rare) has gone considerably better than the typical 'men always pay' dates. To the dismay of woman, I've had more success in dating where I wasn't the typical guy and paid for it.
1. I'm not lumped into the average guy category.
2. She invested more into the interaction and while many women voiced their disapproval, the majority still continued to go out.
I respect her more as she proves she's more independent and the idea in the back of my mind that I'm being used for a free meal goes out the window. Women will ALWAYS tell you to pay and they will never go back out with a guy who doesn't pay for them. Of course, actions speak louder than words and those same women are typically the ones who never go out with assholes and love nice guys, and we all know how true that is!

Reading the article, I started to think if it was really true as far as the numbers.
So far I'm 3 for 14 with the girls that did not contribute anything.
4 for 6 with the girls who paid their half or paid for one date while I got the other.
3 for 3 with the girl who paid for me.
As far as what 'winning' means in my dates, it's not just sex. It's successful and fun times with these girls that kept going.

By not paying you don't belittle or disrespect women. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that a woman is so valuable that a man has to lighten his wallet to please her. You know what that has in common with? A prostitute. A man's values does not change when he doesn't think he has to buy time to get to know a beautiful woman better.
Also, the sheer logistics of a man who adopt this 'men always pay' attitude make dating frustrating, very expensive and into something it shouldn't be, not much fun.

I've only had two women throw a temper tantrum over me only paying my portion and one of the them is my entire reason for searching this topic. She texted me today from our date 4 months ago, apologizing profusely and wants to take me out for drinks.

Also, I wanted to point out such a hypocritical statement posted by a woman earlier that I found incredibly ignorant since both sentence were back to back.

Originally posted by Katie on the first page

"I so agree with your comment.. If a guy didn't pay on the first day i would DEFINITLY not go out with him. It would be the biggest turnoff.. See what the OP doesn't realize is it's NOT about the money, AT ALL!! "

You put such emphasis on the success of the date if the man pays or not, but it's not about money? Anyone with half a brain can see through you. It's CLEARLY about the money to you and you're a perfect example of the type of woman every man tries to avoid. A woman who values money over him. If you didn't, the entire outcome of the date would not depend on him paying would it?

Flip the entire scenario around and have men adopt this mentality. "If a woman did not pay for our date, I am definitely not going back out with her again." EVERY woman would see this guy as a cheapskate and a misogynist. Yet, it's the mentality many women have about the scenario. In both instances, men or women, the person basing the entire success of the date and values of the other person on who picks up the check, is the selfish asshole.

I'll be continuing to date beautiful women and not buy them. I've had more success doing so and it allows me to weed out the narrow minded selfish ones who place such high regard on money. Not to mention I don't worry about being used and seem to have more fun since I'm not paying for two which allows me to play the field more and find someone I click better with. (Hmmmm....men date more and women get less free meals, no wonder they don't agree with this lmao)

Jordan4's picture

Alpha F*cks
Beta Bucks

Which guy do you want to be?

Hint: The Beta is the sucker.

Honey_be_a_man...'s picture

What's wrong with men these days?! I just became single after a long relationship and it's like all men around me lost their balls. And women grew huge ones...
I refuse to pay for men. Period. That is not sexy to me, and it's disgusting when a guy wants a woman to pay for HIS dinner, what the hell is this?!
You dudes are starting to look and act more and more like women. But don't forget, it's not you, it's us women who give you life on Earth and we want a man to protect us and our children, not some wimp who counts percentage on his pathetic screwing technique.
Maybe I'm old-fashioned and grew up on fairy tales of Beauty & The Beast, Cinderella etc but I don't remember any cute fairy tale called Rich Beauty & Slime Ball.

Bobby's picture

There is some truth to what you are saying about men being feminized but when you say that it's sexy that a guy should always pay,then it's a load of b.s and I generally stay away of girls like you.
At the of the day,it's about being equals and both a man and a woman should pay for the other.In a lot of cases,women paid on first dates and to me that's a good sign and what I usually do is pay for the second date and so on...I've gotten a lot of gifts but gave a lot myself.In fact,some women told me that it's unnattractive when a man pays all the time.Women have very good radars and know that there is a possibility of a man,doing this,be susceptible of being possesive and want sex as a result of his efforts.
The last part about you being old fashioned and growing up on fairy tales is quite hilarious...And trust me,for a guy's perspective,that shit never works.For a man who is priviledged of being seen a potential lover,it's never about money,it's because of the rare intangibles that he bring to the table.

Anonymous's picture

Equale rights, equale education, equale pay, that is what single woman who date have achieved. Equale financial rights means equale financial responsibility, and since its has been proven single woman earn on average more than single men, it's now your turn to pay for a man, not the other way round. You can't continue being a hypocrite by saying your traditional, only when it suits your self & at all other times you are a modern woman. Woman need to pay there own way, protect other humans, fight in wars & be eligible for the draft the same way men are. If woman don't want equale rights, then start campaigning that you want to be payed less than men, you don't want to be eligible for an education, you want to be kept as a slave, you don't want the right to vote, you dont have the right to property ownership, you children belong to the man & your left penny less, living on the street begging if he decides to leave you on a whim, because you have no right to open a bank account.
I'm telling you now, there is no such thing as a traditional woman in modern society, so stop claiming you are one, when all you are is greedy, selfish & out to exspoited your fellow human beings.
I'm telling you now, I expect a woman to pay her own way on a first date. I'm not going to tolerate any woman who treats me as second class citizen because she considers her self to have some form of entitlement, because she is a woman, by putting herself on a pedestal like some kind of princess royal who think she don't have to pay.

Ed's picture

Hi Chase,

Came across this study that kinda confirms what you were trying to say above. Apparently saving money on a date shows self control which should extend to other areas of your life:

http://business.time.com/2013/08/20/study-pinching-pennies-is-good-for-y...

Nice to have something to point to with some cold hard facts, ladies what can you say to argue this?!!

Freddie's picture

This is all very interesting, Fist date meetings should not be about food or drink. Coffee or tea is best. The odds of spending $100 on a first meeting and getting a second date are 99.9% against you always my good men friends. Sorry ladies, but you know it is a fact. There are a lot of hungry woman out there who do this professionally, and haven't been in a supermarket for years. Men, be smart and stop letting woman push you into drinks and dinner. Chase is right about this. It almost never works out towards a relationship, second date or anything other than a hungry woman going home alone full.. for years and years and years.

Anonymous's picture

True Story. I was meeting a friend in a club after work on a friday night. My friend brought two female work collages with him to the club. I thought great some friendly smiling female company. After two minutes, these girls asked me to buy them a drink, I told them they can buy there own drinks. They got a bit annoyed & went to the bar smiled at two other guys & got these two guys two buy them drinks all night. When my mate & I was going home, these two girls came along with us back home, they left the other two guys and gave them false phone numbers. The next week these two girls came out with us again, they met another two guys who was buying them drinks all night, they gave these other two guys false phone numbers again like they did the week before. These two girls told me they go out getting drunk for free every week & lied to guys, telling them there interested in them, & making out they were girlfriend material.
My point is just because your female does not mean you deserve or need to be taken care of. By the first date if you have not shared the cost, for all I know you could be no different to these two woman looking for free entertainment based on lies. There are too many stories like this. Woman don't deserve respect from men, just because there female. Woman need to earn respect from men & stop this false sense of entitlement, that is in fact blatantly insulting to men. The only real way to get respect from men on a first date, is to contribute your share in every aspect of the date & that includes paying your own way. Any man who is horrified by a woman paying, is just looking for a slave, he will never respect a woman.

andy's picture

hey chase!
pretty much confused over how to convince or set the scenario right for the girl to pay for the date....
if u can suggest me any ways that wud be just awesome....
rply me soon
thanks

Anonymous's picture

While I've never tried not paying for a date, I'm really not surprised at certain women's attitude towards this. A woman who has never paid for a date feels like men have to pay to show they value her? Isn't that bordering prostitution? Not that he's only dating you to sleep with you, but if a guy is on a date with you isn't that a sign that he likes you enough already? And what should happen should you decide you're no longer interested in this guy?

You just wasted his time and spent his money. To me that's worse than prostitution because at least you're guaranteed to get something out of it. Having conversation with a girl who doesn't even like you, while you pay for her meal, and while you drive her from and to home, etc. doesn't really sound like a fair deal to me.

Maybe I simply don't have the money to spend on the two of us, and that shouldn't be a reflection on how much or little I like you or whether or not you'll sleep with me, or be in a relationship with me in the future. I honestly dont think splitting the check is a disrespectful thing to do even when you're the one who asked the girl out, it's not like he's being a douche and forcing you to pay for his meal, it's an even trade and in the end you're just two people hanging out having a good time, not a man trying to pay his way into a womans pants(prostitution), or a man trying to pay his way into a relationship, or a man throwing his hard earned money away by spending money on a girl that wants nothing more from him than a free meal.

My only question, seeing how all of the woman who've responded feel about this, is how do you honestly convince a girl to go out with you if she's expecting you to pay and you want to avoid doing that?

Jindra's picture

Yes, classical mistake. I have made it. I become the provider, but how would you bring back little balance? Isn't it too rude to suddenly start asking the woman I am dating to pay her share of the bill?
I generally don't have a problem paying for a girl now and then, but I don't want that to be the norm.

Thanks for any advice!
Jindra

Yorkie's picture

I always insist on splitting a bill with a guy whom I see as a friend only. However, if the guy takes me out for a romantic dinner/drinks and then offers to split the bill - sure, I will split it, but he will never see me again. I am just not attached to cheap guys.
NB: I'm coming from a different culture, so that is also a factor.

Anonymous's picture

Good if she did not want to see me again for being fair & her begrudging paying her own share, that's a great test to see if a woman is shelfish. We live in world that should be supporting equality & respect for every one, not just special rights for one gender or race over another. By not wanting to go out with me, she has just saved me a lot of time in the future, giving me the time to date some one special, that is not greedy. If a woman is to cheap to pay her own share she is not worth having. In my opinion she should go get a job in a brothel & stop waisting the time of decent men looking for decent woman.
I'm an A class male, any decent woman would be lucky to have me & I can ashore you it is her loss, not mine, if a selfish woman don't get a next date with me.

Jordan2's picture

A fully grown adult woman who blindly expects another man to pay for all her expenses calling someone else cheap.....

That's a good one.

Anonymous's picture

From a 30 something female perspective-

I think the reason if she's paying there is often sex involved rather quickly, is it can be a turn on to be in a traditionally "masculine" role, it can be empowering.

I actually found this while reading up trying to understand why by the 3rd date, I am super uncomfortable with guys paying for everything. While I'm not into taking on the full paying role, nor can I afford that... Guys paying for everything does throw me into hard core evaluation mode, and it does kill all the sexy fun aspect for me. Instead of being lost in a moment, I'm sitting there trying to see what's fair and balanced. I'm trying to figure out if this means expectations, how often can I see this person before I have to make some sort of possibly life effecting decision, etc... Can I see myself having a future with someone who has X lifestyle. And really after a bit of that anxiety, I really just don't even want to think about it or take time for the person. I don't need a provider, but rather a partner. I also seem to associate a traditional masculine role with an assumption I will have a traditional female role expected...

I don't want to live in your income bracket because you do, and I don't want to clean your house to be there XD

I do like a bit of formality on the first couple, and on special occasions, but after that I really just want to be comfortable with a person. It also puts a lot of pressure on me, as right now I don't make much. Something about not having money to do all sorts of expensive things makes it weirder, and I've been trying to figure out how I am going to go about dating people regardless of income brackets with this acute awareness.

This is a complex time in female history in California US! Kinda good though, as there seems to be no set model, and we get to figure these things out uniquely :)

I really like the suggestion of picnic dates and casual places! Save the fancy stuff for special occasions, and leave out putting a dinner price as equivalent for a persons value. And while this seems to be presented as an angle to get laid more often using the red flag of women in full role reversal mode, the last bit which goes into suggesting the words are confused, but the actions say equal treatment and a desire for a lover being more prevalent is great! Thank you for posting this!

Anon25's picture

Hi Chase, is there a risk that if you both pay equally for a date, it will seem as though you are just friends hanging out, rather than on a date? Is there not a risk of friend zoning yourself?

Cheers

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