Cognitive Dissonance and Upset Commenters | Girls Chase

Cognitive Dissonance and Upset Commenters

Chase Amante

Hey! Chase Amante here.

You've read all the free articles I can offer you for this month.

If you'd like to read more, I've got to ask for your help keeping the lights on at Girls Chase.

Click a plan below to sign up now and get right back to reading. It's only 99¢ the first month.

Already a subscriber? Log in here.


Somewhat less polished article than usual today... my computer's in the shop, so I'm having to put things together on a rather dated machine instead of my usual one.

A reader wrote in to give me a tongue lashing for being insecure, brainwashing men, and leading people astray - away from loving themselves, their soul mates, and God. Here's what he had to say:

cognitive dissonance

Hey Chase,

So I used to be on this site until I realized a few things. Firstly, you're a very insecure man who is brainwashing men into learning a 'skill' which they should not be learning. I believe there is a God-given person for anyone, and regardless of whether or not you think that is 'feel good nonsense' is up to you. A girl left you and because of that you felt like you needed to change. Ever think that maybe she just wasn't right for you? Ever think that you could find a girl who likes you for who you are, but you just got to be patient? Ever think that it's okay to be yourself and to want to be efficient and get things done fast only if you want to? Your website is based on complex logic-based ideological nonsense that appeals to vulnerable young and old men who have typically been through hard times with women and are looking for a solution. Sure you can learn how to make money, get the best body, etc.; we live in a progress-based society. On the other hand, when you are trying to teach people a skill, which is not yours or anyone else's right to teach, then that's crossing the line. Deep down, you know it's wrong, and despite the fact that it works (I can vouch for that), it's morally wrong. You don't need to sleep with women for them to stick around. Most of them will stick around, and you're right about that, but really think about what's the point of doing that. If a girl is meant for YOU then she will like YOU for the nerdy, efficient, intelligent, socially awkward person that you naturally are. SIMPLE. Chase, please give your head a shake, bro. I know what you're saying is true and works, I know if you get the girl to pay it works, I know chase frames work, etc. Please just take a moment and think 'Why would I want a girl who doesn't like me for who I am?' Don't fight your core self, try to change your voice, and who you are. Do it if you want, but the girl you end up with will like you for you. Marriage may not be a big deal to you, but it is a God-given way for 2 people who love each other to demonstrate that; you're just taking a completely logic-based approach, which is one that society tries to conform us into due to its progress-based nature, but if you know what's good for you, you'll take a moment and seriously rethink what you are doing, and get your insecurities sorted out, because you have some serious work to do my friend :).

All the best,
Former member

I have a pretty good idea who this individual is, because he routinely comes on here leaving similar comments. If it's the person I think, he's a guy who was very religious, then decided he was going to learn how to be good with girls, then, before he could actually get any experience with women, decided that being good with girls was morally reprehensible and that he should go back to being very religious again. I've nothing against religious people personally, but flip-flopping is just annoying.

If there's a God, He's probably pretty annoyed with it too. God and I are both annoyed.

I'd take the time to respond point-by-point here - except I've already done that, in this article from two years ago: "Just Be Yourself: The Worst Dating Advice Known to Man." If you're curious about my response to the line of reasoning espoused in the above comment, just read that article - I wrote it specifically so I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself every time somebody decides to challenge why anyone needs to bother with self-improvement, dating advice, treating yourself as your own greatest project and investment, etc.

And the morality issue - "You know it's wrong to teach men about women!" - has been previously addressed here: "Is Seduction Wrong?"

(also worth adding, for clarity's sake - I started improving myself with women when I had almost zero prior success with women and was alone and friendless, not because a girl "had left me," although this does seem to be a common origin story for men in the dating advice niche; and I score 35% on OkCupid's "How Insecure Are You, Really... Test," which you can draw your own conclusions about)

Anyway, what I'm actually primarily interested in discussing here is the emotional reaction - why do people get upset and feel like they need to go on a crusade to silence you when they know you don't think as they do?

Why is it about other people's ideas that make them so... frightening? I mean, they're just ideas... right?

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.



Wit and Logic's picture

Your collums are great, and ruteenly check for new "post-marks of wisdom" to add to my repertoire. I consider myself possibly a notch below your level and as an 18 year old I've learned that as I approach first year university I must filter what information I want added to my life/mindset and what I dont. And your info almost always passes through the filter after quick speculation. However I am a audio/visual learner and not so much a read/word learner... there are two movies I saw recently which can be placed under the genre of "chick flicks that a guy can watch with a girl and somehow enjoy them" the movies are called "Ugly Truth" with Gerald Butler and the movie "Hitch" with Will Smith. Your opinion on these movies if you have seen them coupd helo your readers actually see your thoughts in action.

After watching these movies I thought of this question for you Chase "what genre of mindset is the best to have" as it's difficult to be all and one. Genre of devil may care. Genre of knight in shining armour. Genre of wit and flirty. Genre of mystery and aloofness. Genre of "something else I haven't said"

Great work, keep it up

Wit and Logic's picture

just some typo clarifications. *could *help

Chase Amante's picture


Very much depends on your own personal style. You might be able to easily pull off witty and flirty, but knight in shining armor looks all wrong on you. Or, the converse might be the case. I've seen a variety of men use a variety of different styles to good effect - the best one is the one that's the most congruent with your own style (not to mention with the kind of women you find most attractive).

Ugly Truth I haven't seen; Hitch I saw, but don't remember much of, aside from a general feeling that Will Smith had good verbal game in that one but came across decidedly un-sexy... he just felt very platonic. i.e., the kind of guy a girl might want to date, but not the kind of guy she'd be in any hurry to jump into bed and have a passionate lovemaking session with.

Ricardus did a series on epic movie seductions a while back - might be worth checking out for some other views if you're interested in learning from pictures.


Wit and Logic's picture

That is very true. Thank you.

I've enjoyed this website a lot and will start posting more qiestions and also some advice for others on there questions. I feel another viewpoint and willing commenter is a positive (and hey, of you dont like/agree to my thoughts you can always have the moderators not post them. Haha)

Capital G's picture


Always a fantastic read. I appreciate the openness of your beliefs
By offering a "wide angle" allowing one to think for themselves

The value and quality of the materials, not to mention the quantity
Is a great display of the importance, investment, and desire to help Oh and a strong belief.

Your writing is quite enjoyable and certainly worth the subscription



P.S. I've been approaching girls in pairs, learning to handle myself
Two on one and have gotten different feedback. I was curious to grab
Your thoughts. Did you have an article here that covers "2on1"
Or threesome game?


Chase Amante's picture


Glad to hear the stuff is resonating. Keeping a balance between "useful" and "not entirely boring" isn't always easy to maintain, but that is indeed the goal.

To make sure I'm reading you right, you're talking about approaching two girls with the intent on taking one girl home or grabbing her phone number to meet up with later, correct (as opposed to approaching two girls with intent to pick up and sleep with both - still doable, but a much more specialized skill and one you probably won't use a whole lot unless you're a hard partier)? There are articles on the site about meeting girls by yourself (see "Going Out Alone" and "Going Stag"), but none specifically on approaching two girls by yourself. That'd be good to write up though - I'll add it to the article queue.


Knight's picture

Shame, I think I remember this man too and he was moving ahead well.

Sampo's picture

Hi, Chase!

I've been reading your website for a while now and I can honestly say that it's been the best pickup/relationship website I've encountered so far. I especially like your scientific approach on things, and I've been having more revelations about my relationship problems during the past year than probably ever before in my life.

This article in particular made me think of one thing... It seems like a lot of men are struggling with friend zone issues (me included!) that have been caused by not knowing how / not being able to act correctly with the girl right from the beginning.

I think that the reason why breaking out of the friend zone is so damn difficult has got something to do with cognitive dissonance. After a certain time a girl places you into a "mental slot" based on your behavior, and if your behaviour suddenly changes (if you're making moves towards the girl or "trying to win your balls back"), it contrasts to her mental model and the cognitive dissonance kicks in and causes her to react with the classic "but we're just friends..." response.

Now, the interesting question is, have you seen any studies on how the cognitive dissonance response can be overrided? I assume that brute force / persistence methods do no good in this area (or if by some miracle they happen to work, you'll probably end up giving the girl a huge buyer's remorse reaction - been there, done that...)

Wit and Logic's picture

Hey Sampo, I used to get stuck in the friendzone and it sucked. I have figured out a way to get out of it though.

There is 2 ways that I know have worked. Both take time but have good results for me the past year.

1 ) stop seeing her/texting her etc. for at least 2 months time (ex would be over summer) and then utilize these tips on the site to your advantage. Your personality can have more body contact, flirting, deep diving. And she will automatically have to compare it to the "2 months ago" you and will enjoy it/like the new you more in an subconscious level. If you were friendzoned before with the old you, then it is a lot harder for her to put something that has been upgraded back into its old versions spot. She will automatically upgrade yourself In her mind and a window of opportunity is created.

2 ) Get her working to upgrade her spot in your mind. If she thinks she has you pegged as 'another guy on her string" then she will think of you as easy to get. Not a challenge. However if you force her hand into realizing that you aren't on her string, and that you are a challenge, she will start working and putting effort into getting you to change your mind. Just because a girl friendzones a guy, doesn't mean she wants the guy to friendzone her back. Girls love knowing a guy would date them. But if you lower her value she will work to up it. And become more attached in the relationship due to the time and effort she put in. Opening another window of opourtunity.

Sampo's picture


This one situation I've been in has been a "bit" problematic... We started off with a girl as roommates (we were both in relationship when we met), but we ended up sleeping in the same bed etc and got really close as "friends". As I was seeing another girl I didn't make any moves. She was really jealous of the other girl even though she didn't admit that (I got some really nasty messages from her etc).

After some time I broke up with the other girl and around at the same time she moved to another country for studies, and nothing happened except some drunk kissing. I ended up in a looong relationship with another girl, and I didn't see her for years for more that a few times. She was again goddamn jealous because I practically cut her off from my life (didn't want to mess this long relationship up).

Later, I ended the long relationship and she started to keep more contact with me (which I didn't really resist). She was in a relationship that was going downhill, and she once came to my place and we ended up in bed, but didn't go all the way to the end (she started hesitating). After that I didn't again see her for several months, and the next time we met I was at her place and her she pulled up the "I just want us to be friends, because I don't feel anything for you"-card. I was seeing (casually) one girl that I actually liked quite a lot and was pretty pissed off because of her on/off behaviour, so I told her that I have zero interest in a boring friendship. She started crying, and I left her for a few days. Anyway, after a few days of cold war I saw her again, we got drunk, and she comes up with "I've been having these feelings that I want to sleep with you" and we ended up in bed again, but she pulled the brakes the thing *again* (she was still trying to end her previous relationship). This whole show happened once more again after a few days, and then the next time I saw her (after a few months) she told me that I had "cheated her to bed" somehow and she just wants to be friends :D I didn't know whether I should laugh or cry and told her to do whatever she wants (raised my hands and told I give up), and I cut off the contact towards her completely. Now I'm getting messages "why don't I hear anything from you". Well, make an educated guess why!

Aahh!! Female logic! :D Drives me nuts!

Chase Amante's picture


Actually, yes I have.

This piece of research: "Overcoming denial and increasing the intention to use condoms through the induction of hypocrisy" studies the use of inducing a feeling of hypocrisy in individuals to force them to confront their own cognitive dissonance and come to terms with it. The example here is convincing a young person of the danger of STDs by having him teach someone else about it, and be forced to confront that he himself doesn't use condoms all that much and is putting himself at risk.

As a matter of fact, I use the hypocrisy approach quite heavily when dealing with cognitive dissonance (and take a good measure of joy away from it, too... there's little more fun than having someone tell you how certain she is of something, for you to point out to her that she violates her own certainty on a day-to-day basis).

One example might be when I have a girl I'm seeing get up on a soap box and start telling me how men "should" treat women, and how most men are so bad because they don't treat women that way.

And I'll say, "Right... because YOU would never treat a MAN that way... right?" And she'll say yes, that's right. And I'll say, "Of course not... like [example of some guy I know she treats that way] - you don't treat HIM like that, do you?" And she'll say no, well... that's different! And I'll start laughing, and say, "And what about [some other guy]? You don't treat HIM that way either, right?" And she'll say no, but-! And I'll say, "Isn't it weird, that it's so horrible that men treat women this way, and yet here you are, suffering saint, and you treat men EXACTLY the SAME WAY?" And she'll say, "But I don't treat YOU that way!" and I'll say, "Of course - because I'd never let you. But most other men are too busy chasing after you and doing whatever you want just to try to stay in your life. And you treat them EXACTLY that way."

And then at that point, the person is in, "Oh, wow, I don't even know what I'm doing..." mode, because you've just pointed out that they thought they knew EXACTLY what they were doing, and they were so certain of what other people should and should not do... and then you've pointed out what hypocrites they were, and they're floored.

At that point, you can talk to them much more reasonably, and help them examine their own behavior more clearly and try and understand it.

The one problem for using this with girls who have you in their friend zones: while you can break their faulty logic with this, it DOESN'T make them suddenly become attracted to you again.

You still need to deal with the fact that attraction's expired and she now sees you as sexually undesirable (usually you need preselection for this, or just disappearing for a long time and coming back a "changed man" later).


Anonymous's picture

Adding on your last post can you talk about how to have sex with more than one girl? I don't know if this is possible to put into a whole post but I'm very interested in the idea.


Chase Amante's picture


I only have a few experiences here under my belt - it was never much of a priority for me, just something interesting to try a few times. However, I know a few guys who do this regularly - I'll see if I can get one of them to write up an in-depth how-to.


Leo's picture

Hi Chase,
The naysayers are more of a validation that you are doing exactly what you should be doing (according to me at least) , which is to challenge the stuff that is not working and presenting a more accurate description of "reality" . Please keep up real as you do and bring more challenging Ideas to this place as you have been doing, thats what keeps me and others and your core readership coming back .


Chase Amante's picture


I'll do my best. Everyone's perception of reality is more or less distorted by their own experiences, mine included... I'll try and keep the focus on providing tools you can use yourself to figure things out, rather than have to rely on my or someone else's own view of things.


Andres's picture

I've encountered this scenario on numerous occasions seeing as I live in the fourth most conservative city in America according to the Bay Area Center for Voting Research. I have been accused of pessimism and having a lack of spirituality because I have a habit of shitting on unrealistic dreams or expectations when I view things from a Jean Paul Sartre perspective. People seem to get real upset when I knock them off their cloud with a reality check. I have over time censored myself on Facebook comments to avoid conflict despite having strong urges to speak out on something irreprehensibly false and scientifically proven as such. Most of the outrage tends to also come from the female gender. I did learn through your site that they do respond more emotionally to things. Is censoring my words to not upset these women or more spiritual men a good idea?

Chase Amante's picture


Self-censorship is an interesting topic. Personally, I prefer not to challenge people's views in person unless they're someone I'm very interested in having in my life long term. If it's someone I'm just meeting socially in passing, I let them say their piece without interruption or refutation.

Examples might be being around political extremists; I've had die-hard conservatives around me going on about how they're stacking up assault rifles and tear down government and want the liberals to all burn in the fire pits, and diehard liberals around me talking about how we need to take the money from the rich and give it to the poor and legislate everything and turn the world into a police state to make sure everyone's treated completely equally, and with these kinds of people I just take a tack of being interested in their views and asking them how they've come to these conclusions and exploring where their hardcore opinions come from, without ever challenging them or sharing my own opinions. You can actually learn a lot about the psychology behind beliefs like this by being inquisitive and non-judgmental / non-argumentative.

That said, when you meet extreme people with beliefs that just don't line up with yours, it's usually better just to not stay in close (or any) contact with them. Seek out like-minded people - and in your case, at least, you probably want to get out of that town as soon as you can. People choose to believe in certainty and destiny and life being easy because it's easier and less intimidating... all you accomplish by challenging their worldviews is scaring the crap out of them and making them angry at you for doing it. You'd need to spend years working with one of these people to turn them into someone who's both growth-oriented and confident about it; it's far better just to find people who already are, and learn and grow together instead of you having to shepherd some person whose world you've just broken and now needs you to heal and repair his sense of self for a few years.


Anonymous's picture

Maybe the commenter could also worry about someone knowing how to get girls stealing the one for him.
I can see him imagining a "god given girl" for him being swept off her feet (because he couldn't compit), and feeling bad about it. I'm not justifying what he says, but it's always good to try to walk a mile in other people shoes.

Chase Amante's picture


Good thought, but you've got to understand that with people who think in terms of black and white, right and wrong, the world is divided down a line in the center and the people on one side of it just won't do what is on the other side of that line, ever.

So a good girl leaving him for another man would NEVER happen, because good girls don't do that. Only bad sluts do that. If a girl ever DID do that, that would mean she was NOT a good girl, and he made a mistake... she was, in fact, a bad slut.

It's fundamentally a different way of viewing the world, and one based not on seeing people as the complicated, gray-area beings they are, but as one-dimensional paper dolls that have to act a certain way always and do whatever their label designates them for doing.

The interesting thing is, the individual is fully capable of realizing that he himself is not perfectly in one camp or the other (he is not completely and unequivocally good nor bad, but struggles between what he sees as good and what he sees as bad - "temptation"), but he remains unable to see this in others - it seems to be a failure of empathy, an inability to get into other people's heads and imagine what life is like for them or how they see the world.


Anonymous's picture

Fascinating article as always. As soon as one realizes the problem you describe they can take genuine steps to improve. I for example read extremely conservative newspapers (although I'm liberal) to make sure I am exposed to other ways of thinking and always have my beliefs challenged; it is not always comfortable, but ultimately makes you a better rhetorician.

I have situation, I was hoping you could help me with. I went out on a date with a girl (my first date ever, I'm in high school by the way) and it was a sort of a substitute prom date, since we both were on a trip to out of state during our actual prom. It was really formal at a really nice restaurant (basically the opposite of what you recommend), and she seemed really excited about the entire idea even before I told her where we were going. The conversation was okay, we laughed and enjoyed ourselves, but I didn't escalate (not even kissing or touching her much). We ended by hugging. I followed up after we returned from the trip, calling her once (she didn't respond, no voicemail). I called her three days later (she didn't respond again, just told her I'll call her sometime else). I got busy, didn't follow up for 2 weeks and I didn't plan to, but she texted me herself and we had a short conversation (teasing me about being lame for not attending an awards thing at our school) and then changed her profile pic to a really funny picture of me and her, with her thanking me for all of the good times we had over the two years we knew each other (I only became interested in her recently). So naturally, I thought she was interested, and texted her (I rarely see her in school anymore) following your template exactly, but she still has not returned my text (three days, now). Do I give up at this point? Is there any way to get an answer from her (a yes or a no, I don't really care, I just hate not knowing, and I can't stop thinking about it)? What do I do if or when I see her at school, just act like I never contacted her and talk normally? I'm so confused!

Wit and Logic's picture

Hey man, this sounds like something I would have written 365 days ago (around the day I first came across this site)

Don't fret about this one girl. It's a poison that causes long term concern. You aren't her boyfriend so stop having a mindset that you are already with her. You shouldnt worry about her not responding. You are a high demand guy who has the women contacting him (which she did...but reading what you wrote it sounds like you texted her all of 28 seconds afrer you recieved her text) occupy yourself with hobbies and friends to release your mind from getting caught in the vicious cycle of your mind telling you "she is your girlfriend" when you've only gone out once. Ive been I those shoes before, and if you learn to stay out of that situation until you actually are bf/gf. Dont act the part of boyfriend until you are the boyfriend

Chase Amante's picture

Great advice here from Wit and Logic.

Anon, only thing worth adding - if you want closure, send her a text like, "Hey, I had a great time with you, and thought you had a great time with me, but seems like it isn't going anywhere. If you want it to, let me know, and let's make it happen; otherwise no worries - time for me to go hit the dating pool."

No matter what you hear back to that, or if you never do, you'll have your answer inside of a few hours (and if it's radio silence after 3 hours or so, the answer is "not interested," even if she writes something nice back a day later about "let's hang out as friends!" - if she's interested, she'll respond within 3 hours max - and that's only if she's really busy and not checking her phone - not wanting to lose you).


Humpert's picture

Wow, awesome article again. This is almost guru type stuff. I find myself occasionally disagreeing with what you have to say, but it never really bothers me much as almost all of it is so helpful and thought spurring.

I wanted to know, Chase, if you could see your way to writing something about finding direction in life... How to figure out what it is you actually want to do with yourself and then go for it. Ive been looking for help on this since I was in grade achool. Now 25, my life is still amorphous and I can feel the stagnance getting stronger. Its a long shot, but whatever you have to say on the matter I'm sure I'll find helpful.

Thanks for all your work.

Chase Amante's picture

Humpert's picture

Great! Thanks Chase, I dont know how I missed this one. Excited to read!

Flames's picture

I'll address the commenter first because I feel that is the cause of this post. I think most of the original forum members (of which I came into on the 2nd batch) realise who this guy is, and although he came in way too strong has made a few good points, and some badly screwed perspective mistakes.

I personally have come from a point of not being that bad with women in the first place and so I'm only working on fixing my flaws rather than rebuilding from scratch, but I think a lot of societies problems come from indirect brainwashing anyway were all trying to brainwash each other, every time you have an 'opinion' or argue a point. It's the same thing and without going to heavily into religion or politics, there's no institutions that try sway or pursuade people more than religion. Such and such is good, something else is bad..

Most of your ideas are about how things really work, and in my experience a lot of things I already knew, and other people did too, but you are the one who's explained why they work and the 'mechanics' behind it and given it a name. Quite often the mistakes people make with women are things they've been told in the past (maybe at a young age) to do, or told not to do (and punished).

I think the original commenter has had a bit of a knee jerk reaction, to altering himself so fast, and this is his attempt to rationalise it to himself, and to everyone else (but mostly to himself), and I hope that he'll find a happy balance, which is essentially what we should all do.


Chase Amante's picture


Interesting point about everybody trying to brainwash everybody else at all times. Richard Dawkins discusses the idea of memes wanting to propagate themselves by spreading into new minds, and the most competitive memes surviving. I just read something recently about the ideas that survive being the most useful and feeling the most intuitively right; religion feels intuitively right, which is why it's stuck around so long, while science is highly useful, which is why it's carved out a larger and larger niche for itself from what was previously religion's domain; however, science doesn't feel intuitively right the way religion does, which is why it isn't able to supplant it entirely. There's a lot about science (like gravity being an attractive force, rather than stuff just falling down) that doesn't make much intuitive sense based on how we experience the world with the senses we've got.

With this particular commenter, he's still quite young, and at that age you tend toward impassioned positions based on as little evidence as possible, much of the time. As the brain matures and the experiences broaden, this passion cools down from a violent emotionalizing into a more gentle pushing and guiding, and life experiences make black and white polarization an increasingly more difficult thing to stomach, as the depth of the world and of other people becomes more and more undeniable.


Whizy's picture

Hey Chase!

This was a particularly interesting article. When I read the comment from the religious member I couldn't help but smile and chuckle a little. I remember when I had a similar view as his which changed as I grew more accustomed to dating girls. Keep up the good work, your articles and this whole site are really helpful for the people that do want to learn how to improve themselves, even in ways beyond dating!

Nick's picture

Hey Chase,
Man I never knew you got comments like that! Hard to imagine a guy thinks like that when he has all the evidence against his mentality on the site. I am thinking he did not actually try out the stuff also(learning fundamentals,cold approaching,etc.) He would change his tune if he did but hey that's his choice; I got nothing against that.
Actually, most guy friends I have and even my father are like that. "Just let people like you for you don't give them something that is not you" Where did this B.S come from?
Anyway, questions I have(if you have the time) are related to the last article. I remember you saying in an article( or maybe it was the book?) about how girls would make you great dinner and you gave them great sex in exchange, playfully joking with them about it.
Now at the time I read that I was like "damn" because usually in the stereotypical hetero relationship the woman held the sexual power( she allows him to have sex with her in exchange for whatever hes got; takes privilege away if he screws up)

1.) Do women like being in the position where the sexual power is reversed?(Only want to learn how if the girl enjoys it)

2.) What is the best way to establishing that power dynamic in the relationship without offending the girl?

Also, I got to say I am starting to feel a little guilty asking you all these questions. I mean you get a lot and some are probably things you explained in other articles and it takes up a ton of your time typing out essay-like answers so hopefully you start getting other skilled seducers to help you with the site.

Anyway, thanks for another great article,

P.S also if you ever run out of article ideas you could write up a post on establishing this reversal if you want.

Chase Amante's picture


Women do enjoy sexual power reversal so long as it's done properly, but it leads them to having the same emotions that men normally have in relationships - neediness, clinginess, over emotionalization, strong "in-love" feelings, and to a degree, emotional dependency and creeping fear of loss. If the relationship ends or you break up though, it's quite often a much more devastating experience for her than a normal break up is.

On establishing that dynamic; that's one of the few things I won't teach guys, just because it's too easy to use in bad ways - at the extreme ends of it, a guy who's crafting and manipulative can use it to get a woman to basically hand over control of her life and everything she's got to him (money, property, etc.). Even if he doesn't have bad intentions, it's still very easy to use this in accidentally damaging ways; since writing the book, I've toned my use of SPR down substantially to avoid women getting over-attached and breakups becoming something traumatic when they happen.


tanbul's picture

chase I beginning to wonder that when girls show their butt cleavage,it means they are interested in mating unconsciously or conscious ly or they're on period or maybe they are really just wearing tight clothes.what do you think?

Chase Amante's picture


On this one in particular, I think it's just tight clothes - I know girls who constantly have the tops of their butt cheeks and cracks peaking up over their pants, just because they were pants that are very low like that. I'm pretty sure they're not doing it because they're horny 100% of the time, but rather just because they like those clothes or think that makes them sexy.

That said, women DO dress more revealingly when they're ovulating and trying to attract a mate. So, if you notice a girl only dresses that way about 4 days out of a month, she might be doing it for that purpose!


Anonymous's picture


I think you may have taken my comment the wrong way. After this site I got sucked into a fundamentalist Christian group. What you have to understand is that fundamentalist Christians hate religion and I am in no way being 'religious'. Currently, I hate fundamentalism and I don't really care about religion at all. I get what you're saying but I'm not trying to insult or upset you man. I get your viewpoints and you have helped me a lot (like how to master goals) and I thank you for that. I just think it's wrong for guys to try to get good with girls because it's a skill that is so complex and you said that most guys aren't satisfied with their spouses ... how can you prove this? Why is it that almost everyone gets married to someone, they pass on their genes to their children and evolution continues? I come back to your site because you have a lot of great input on certain topics but some like having sex with girls to me is wrong. Technically it's not manipulation because you aren't forcing her, but at the same time, if she could read your mind at the beginning of the date, do you think she would agree? Probably not, therefore it's manipulation of emotions, logic, or whatever you are using against her. I get that we live in a progress-based society and that typically, intelligent people are more inclined to understand this and want to improve to get ahead of the pack. I know you fall under this category and all, but why do you feel as though you have to change who you are to make friends, get girls, and be happy? What's the point? Ever think that if you were a bit more patient you'd run into a girl who you'd do stuff for who would be smart enough to appreciate what you are doing and love you for it? I think you got shot down and took it personally like there was something wrong with you; something that a lot of guys, including myself do. I just hope you get where I'm coming from because in your heart you know what you are doing is wrong, and I just hope I am getting across to you why what you are doing is wrong. I enjoy your articles, keen insight, and knowledge, but with knowledge comes power, and you have to be careful with that power. Sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention. Also, as to your comment about not judging people, it's bull. Everyone judges, even the fundamentalists. Life is simple, when someone intelligent like you thinks too much; however, that's when things get complex and you come up with ideas like mastering the skill of getting girls. I hope you find a girl someday who appreciates you for the guy you are at the core, the guy who likes video games, is efficient, intelligent, etc. and not the muscular, 'attractive', suave guy that you've developed yourself into. Think about it man, you don't need to change for anyone to like you, someone will like you for who you are, just have faith :). I had lots of friends and girls around before the site and I accomplished that by being myself and just living life. I'm improvement-oriented because that's just where my heart is at, and if a girl ignores me, walks away, or is rude, then I cut her off. Simple, try it.

Chase Amante's picture


The word “religion” is defined as any set of beliefs pertaining to the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe that makes use of a superhuman agency / agencies, according to That is to say, if you think there’s a big all-powerful dude who makes stuff happen and is the reason why you’re here, you have religion.

If people could read minds: the world would be a very different place if all of us had perfect information. There are many women I would not have slept with that I have had they known every thought inside my head; there are also many women I WOULD have slept with that I have NOT had they known every thought inside my head. Unfortunately, due to the fact that we live in a world in which we all are separate entities encased inside separate flesh and bone enclosures, we don’t have a way of communicating the full range of all our qualities, histories, desires, intentions, and more to one another instantly and flawlessly. This may be the case several hundred years down the line, if we end up with a future where all of us have brain implants that connect us to one central information network, like computers are now, and at that point things like game, appearance, even conversation probably become irrelevant, because we’re all just one big hivemind anyway.

For now, every single one of us has to present himself in the best way possible to try and achieve what he wants and help others achieve what they want, because we’re stuck with the highly inefficient means of communication between separate individuals that is human speech. I have to, the other readers of this site have to, and you have to too. In fact, you’re doing it right now, in your comments on this website.

Your definition of “manipulate” also is too loose. When most people use “manipulate” regarding dealing with other people, what they mean is lying or misleading in attempt to achieve a result that may be harmful to the other person and goes against his or her wants. Very different from your definition, which appears to be “using emotions or logic to persuade anyone of anything,” which... is exactly what you’re doing in your own comments here, too.

Regarding this comment:

“Ever think that if you were a bit more patient you'd run into a girl who you'd do stuff for who would be smart enough to appreciate what you are doing and love you for it?”

You’re missing the point of this entire website. The point is not about “go out and get any woman you want!” There are always going to be women who are attracted to you, and women who aren’t. The point of THIS website is: what do you do when you find a girl you like who likes you back? There are some men who are so bursting with energy and enthusiasm (you may well be one of them) that they require no experience or instruction to grab a girl like this the instant she appears and take her for themselves.

Most men, myself included, are not so blessed. I spent the better part of my life running into girls who were “smart enough to appreciate” what I was doing and love me for it, who then got tired of me failing to take action with them and left to find men who’d do something. There are many men with similar stories.

You may not need a website like this, but just because you don’t need an accountant or a lawyer or a doctor does not mean these professions are an immoral waste of time and money. There are many other individuals out there in the world who need things you do not. My older self, and probably 97.628% of men out there, could use a little help figuring out how to take those girls who like you and make them yours.

And no, opportunities don’t burst through your door and force themselves on you if you’re afraid of seizing them or don’t know how. They just knock a few times, and if you don’t answer, they leave. This is the real problem most men have with women - it isn’t a lack of attraction or desire on the woman’s part. It’s a lack of knowhow on the man’s.


“Also, as to your comment about not judging people, it's bull.”

Here’s the only judgment I make: people who judge others are bad people. Why? Because they’re the ones who murder, kill, rape, destroy, and pillage, all based on dehumanizing, othering distortions in their brain. I’ve never heard a non-judgmental person say, “Let’s go burn that village of people! It’s not that they’re BAD, per se, it’s just that it’s more convenient to us if they’re not there!” No... it’s always judgment in the end, standing there at the fore of destruction and misery. Judgment is a mind poison that leads to the worst problems of man, and if there WAS a God, trust me brother - he’d be smiting the judgmental faster than you could say, “THUNDERBOLTS FROM HEAVEN!”

And that’s the truth.


Mafugo Daniel's picture

Why would someone say that they are done with one thing and then turn around and engage in that partake in that very activity that they had publicly denounced.

In fact I'm from an African country where the opposition candidate has tried to run against the incumbent president many times to no avail. The interesting thing is that this opposition dude on two occasions in the past swore he would never run again. Only to forfeit his word and do just that.

I thought that in a nutshell the role of cognitive dissonance is to conspire with social pressure to make sure that folks are able to keep their assertions and behavior aligned.

So how come guys like Oh Pry and this opposition candidate are able to backtrack on their vows without seeming to exhibit any signs of internal turmoil. Might there be another psychological phenomenon at play that enables such guys to override their dissonance and social pressure triggers?

C man's picture

I posted a comment in how to start a relationship but After I clicked save I didn't see the comment. Did I do something wrong,because I put a lot of time into commenting.

Chase Amante's picture


Your comment is up now. We moderate comments on this site so that this stays a place of (relative) tranquility and thoughtful learning. That means comments sit in a moderation queue until someone can review them and make sure a given comment isn't, "Screw you for teaching men about women, evil man!" or, "You must never get laid because none of this stuff works - and I don't need to cite evidence, I can just say it and you should believe me just because!"

One of the unfortunate realities of the Internet, I'm afraid - too many people using comment sections as places to spew bad emotions all over the place to make themselves feel better (and everyone else who reads it after them feel worse) instead of for reasoned discussion and discourse. Moderation solves most of that, though.


Lj's picture

Hey chase.
I have several questions for you that, after reading a lot of your stuff, have served as sort of mental blocks to implementing these concepts in my day to day life. I'm still in school, and I'm a highly logical and(although I don't generally say it this outright) really smart person. I lived a long time in a certain sheltered frame of mind, as my parents are very religious and I was kind of young. Needless to say, when I finally was introduced to what the real world was like, it sucked. Nothing like a good uppercut tithe self esteem to make you question who you are, so these past few years I've been investigating many things to try and craft myself into who I want to be. Becoming good with women was something I wanted to include into my character; it's especially important to me because said uppercut was dealt by someone who rejected me very harshly. Now, I've gotten over that, I'm not here to boohoo on your shoulder about how I just can't get a grip on this. In fact, the girl and I now talk regularly because I've done a lot of work on myself in a short period of time. But I do find that as a young, developing person, as important as this is to me, it's very hard to use your concepts in school. Firstly, everybody already has an opinion on me set in stone. (In fact, I experienced a lot of confusion about my identity because what state I was in when I first met a person sort of defined the way our relationship went from that point forward. This made me think, which state am I in by default, if I adapt to each new person with little regard to myself? Which one am I really? ) By now, I can't really get people to see me as a dominant or sexual guy, as they have already profiled me. Secondly, my logically oriented mind has a built in caution inducing property. I want to break out of this. I can't bring myself to move fast with women, becuase if I screw up I'm going to be stuck in school with them for another couple years. My lack of experience only magnifies the problem, but I feel like I can't get any experience becuase I'm too afraid of screwing up in a situation where the consequences are so long lasting. Thirdly, Im still in school. I don't exactly want to take a girl to bed yet. But I know these principles work, and I can use them to set a foundation ( such as building my fundamentals and my comfort level with women) on which to build in my adulthood. It will put me far ahead at a younger age. But because all your articles are seduction based, I have a hard time figuring out practical ways to using some of your stuff.

So, to recap:
1. How can I override what my friends and possible girlfriends already have pegged me as?
2. How can I gain experience in this confined environment with minimal risk?(remember I'm starting from ground zero, here)
3. What are some practical goals I can set for myself that can help to build my foundational skillswithout necessarily having sex with her? Or, in other words, at what point can I know that I've arrived at certain level of skill, without the reassurance of taking a girl to bed?

Thanks in advance.

Chase Amante's picture


Getting going's always the toughest thing with anything.

On overcoming people's perceptions of you: when I decided I was no longer happy with my old self in high school, I announced to some people in school that there was going to be a Chase Amante 2000 I'd premier in the next year of school. This was to get around the "some kid tries to change and hopes nobody notices; everyone tries to get him back to what he was" type of thing that's so common. Within a few days, everybody in my grade was asking me about Chase Amante 2000 and what he was going to be like and what would be different (I wouldn't tell them, though, just give some hints).

That summer I went out and worked on myself really hard, completely changed my image, and changed my style of interacting with people. I started driving and got a part-time job. When I came back to school, everyone accepted my new image without question and let me keep refining myself in a different direction without any protest.

If you're in a confined environment, announcing an upcoming change before you start in on it, and then coming back "different" after a little time away, seems to work - at least, it worked for me. And it gets around the incongruence of suddenly changing - because they expected it, they come to accept it before it even happens, thus reducing pushback.

On a smaller scale, you might simply just tell people, "I've been reading stuff about X, and I'm going to start teaching myself to do it because it's good for me," and then do it. For smaller things, like nonverbals (posture, walk, movements, gestures, facial expressions, eye contact, etc.), you can work on these without telling anyone and they'll subtlely change people's perceptions of you with time.

On gaining experience - if you're in a small school without much anonymity, I'd focus on just learning to be very social and charismatic and cool with my classmates, and flirty with women, without trying to transition things. As you get better, you can start moving and commanding girls - "Stand over here for a second," "Here, sit down with me" - so you get used to doing this. You can also play with things that build sexual tension, like taking her hand to examine her bracelet, then holding her hand for a moment as you talk to her. Keep your actual approaches to your social circle periphery - approach at parties, or women you meet while out at the mall, on the street, etc.

On progressing without sex - there's always going to be a bit of weirdness there, because there's a "next step" that you won't be taking, while other people are. Once people start having sex in earnest and you are not, they'll tend to start seeing you as "cute" and "nonsexual"... childlike, almost. Which affects your ability to craft the right image for coming across as cool and being attractive to women in a number of not-so-good ways. So one things that's probably essential here is learning to be mysterious... becoming the guy that people are never quite sure about, so they end up saying, "Well of COURSE LJ gets laid... I mean, look at him!" Assuming you start having sex whenever you actually want to have sex, this won't be a problem (although if you want to and don't, it can lead to some identity issues... "Everybody thinks I am this thing that I'm not, and really want to be, but don't know how to be!").

Focus on flirting, creating sexual tension and desire, and commanding women and getting buy-in and investment, and you'll quickly get yourself well-positioned for whenever you're ready to start taking the next steps.


Wes's picture

Just wanting to say this while it's on my mind,

I really like that word 'vehemently' that you used. Really colorful and attractive sounding words you use. I'm just really weird so I pay attention to things like that.
As well as the thing about the ants. I had no idea that worker ants even have the ability to reproduce. I swear I learn something new from reading your stuff everyday. (I don't really like to read books, I like to read magazines, Internet articles, blogs, etc.)

Anyways, can you possibly do and article on colorful language?
Sometimes I think about using bigger/more intelligent words but I don't want to sound pretentious and many of the words just don't even feel right in a sentence. me of how the French speak. So fluid.

Also, believe it or not, I'm a religious reader as well and had a little of the same issues that commenter had. (just stuff about sex before marriage and no soul mates) and my mind was at war with it when I first started out . Obviously I got over myself but I'm still religious...
I figured that you made valid points and that if God had a problem with me heading into a "unholy" lifestyle then he'd put some pretty clear signs in my life not to.
So far, it seems like blessings are just dropping in my life and god actually WANTS me to improve.
We can believe what we want but I do think it's possible to work on self improvement and be religious. I think I understand why that commenter decided to leave and it's a shame they couldn't find harmony in their conflicting mind.

Haters gonna hate
Like the way you handle it

Chase Amante's picture


I can do something on colorful language, sure - although the main recommendation is "read more." And start doing some writing, if you're so inclined.

Self-improvement and being religious - no, I don't see the two as being in conflict at all. Some of the most highly self-improvement-oriented people I know are religious. People use their beliefs to justify whatever it is they really want to do - if you're religious and you don't want to improve, you tell people that the Lord will provide and this life is just a passing thing anyway, so there's no point; if you're not religious and you don't want to improve, you tell people that there's no meaning in the universe and you'll soon be dead and forgotten anyway, so there's no point.

On the other hand, if you're religious and want to self-improve, it's "God wants me to be my best self, so I can best serve Him through leading a good and righteous life." If you're not religious and want to self-improve, it's "I want to be my best self, so I can have the biggest impact in the world and live the best life I can."

People use their beliefs to justify their desires far more than they allow their beliefs to influence their desires... oddly enough.


Wit and Logic's picture

During a lunch break today I was talking with 3 very attractive girls (one who has a boyfriend and the other 2 single) along with a buddy of mine. Long story short we began talking about an old aquatince of ours. The conversation topic was kino, or as the three girls called him, "touchy feely"

Now in my head during this conversation one of the single girls moved her leg under the table to rest against my leg and turned to say "I'm sorry" but before she could I raised my eyebrows in a flirty way of "sure, put your leg onmine." Which I found quite ironic but then it got me thinking
How can a guy not come across as "over touchy/trying to force/awkward" and more on the side of getting her thinking positive thoughts.

So this is my request to you. I know you have written a few articles on physical contact and initiating it and making her comfortable, not forcing it, making it seem purposful or even accidental but not being flustered...and ive got all that down to a T...but could you write an article about putting yourself in the next step of the ladder and having her touch you/initiate kino/make her feel the pressure of "how does he feel about me touching him" instead of the guy wondering it. When/where/examples of getting her to touch/ making her feel like shes the one putting the effort in for physical contact.

I've got a half dozen or so scenarios that work but I'd like a fresh view.

Just a thought of a different viewpoint on kino with women

Wit and Logic's picture

Ignore the *Now in my head*...changed how I typed it out but guess I didn't delete back enough

Chase Amante's picture


Certainly - I can do a write up on having women touch you. Sounds like it'd be a fun one to do!


Wit and Logic's picture

Should be a good one. Sweet

Add new comment

The Latest from