Why I Quit Dating Girls Who Club, Party, or Drink | Girls Chase

Why I Quit Dating Girls Who Club, Party, or Drink

Chase Amante

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girls who partySomething I've been asked from time to time on this site (most recently in a forum post by one of our members here) is why I don't date girls who club, party, drink, or have "girls' nights out".

The questions you most frequently get about this are:

  • Doesn't every girl do these things?

  • Who cares if she goes out and does a little drinking? I trust my girl to stay loyal.

  • Aren't you a hypocrite if you do these things but expect her not to?

  • Don't you trust your women to stay faithful to you? I thought you wrote in the article on how to prevent cheating that it was possible to be so great a partner than women wouldn't want to cheat?!

Most of these thoughts come from rather different places than where I come at relationships from, though. These thoughts revolve more around fear of loss, and/or a feeling of helplessness to control for or select against this behavior... neither of which I have.

This article will not be terribly helpful if you're still just starting out on your journey to get good with women, or are intermediate there, because you will not be able to follow it. Real screening is dependent on the ability to say "no," and until you reach the place where you truly have absolute abundance with women, there will always be women where your logic will say, "I'm not so sure about this one..," but your emotions will hit the override button and tell you, "Stop being silly - she's great."

So let's talk about why I recommend steering clear of these kinds of women if you want a stable, healthy relationship that is a boon to your existence, rather than the bane of it.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

Anonymous's picture

I came to this realization the hard way. Night time women usually are no good for anything medium or long term. They seem so exciting when you first meet them and at first when youre new it can seem like the enthusiasm will continue and something magical will ensue with this woman. yeah right. Ive found theyre Good for one night maybe 2 but never more. The have no allegiance to you especially when you're "annoying them." In fact it seems as if they take the slightest annoyance as reason to either drop you or to pull away and go flirt with other men. And at the end of the day I agree to pick quality over trying to work things out with a woman who doesn't see how cheating is that big of a deal since the reason why she wanted to cheat in the first place is bc YOU made her mad. It really pays to be ruthless and simply not tolerate any garbage and risk scaring a girl off or being rejected when you tell her what you're going to tolerate or not...do so in the beginning and fo so fast. don't be a sucker, a pawn, a dummy.
If you want good results you have to take actions designed to put you in a position of accomplishing your goals, and putting your faith in a night time woman isn't the best use of logic and time.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

One thing I'd note, purely for philosophical purposes, is that it isn't that women who like partying are bad people or anything of the sort… people simply behave differently when they are in high-choice environments, and when they become conditioned to novelty - new experiences, new lovers, and the like. The synapses in the brain just change; there becomes less need or desire for any real degree of commitment over the long-term.

There is also a tendency for women who are night owls to be high in thrill-seeking / novelty-seeking as base personality traits too, which make them more exciting partners, but also more unstable ones. There is too in my experience a much higher prevalence of rather exaggerated personality disorders (sometimes worse) among the nighttime crowd, women included… a little caution is in order to make sure you dodge the crazies (who, incidentally, tend to be a bit more open to cold approach than normal girls).

Chase

RodeoRyan's picture

Chase,

I live in a college town, and the school is usually ranked pretty high on the "Top Party Schools" list. So encountering girls who frequently party is pretty much the norm. And I'll attest to your comment about the "crazies." In the past 6 months or so, I've met many women by cold approach in bars, only to take them out on a meet up, then take them to bed. Everything seems great and wonderful in the beginning...

Then, again and again, their craziness comes out. And it's really amazing how strikingly similar all these girls are. For example, it's very typical for students to go out several times during the week and get smashed. On multiple occasions, with totally different girls, I have gotten phone calls while I'm sleeping at 1:30-2:00 AM with the girl on the other end begging me to come sleep with her/come meet her at some place/come walk her home because she's drunk/etc. The list goes on. Then they apologize the next day, like nothing happened, only to do something equally ridiculous a week later. I used to just brush these off, figuring the sex was good, and other than these problems, she was fun to be with.

Now that I've internalized this article, I see exactly what was going on here. Thanks for the well laid out thoughts Chase.

women's picture

Hello,
you say that party girls aren't good for relationships. I agree. But what about party girls that want to change? The ones that are ready to cross the bridge to a more stable relationship and feel like they're with the right person?
I love my man, and he loves me and will stay with me. He lets me party in our relationship. I really want to change and be there for him, and most of all myself. I am tired of waking up groggy, going to class late, etc. But I feel like it's really hard to disconnect myself from my unhealthy social life aka childhood friends, without hurting anyone.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thanks.

Anonymous's picture

Trust me, bud. Party girls are thinking the same thing you are. They don't want to take you home to their mother. They don't want to spend extra time with you. They want to be satisfied by you, and then never see you again. So it goes both ways.

Kate 's picture

I agree, I wouldn't trust a man who dies the same thing.

Ben's picture

This is on of those party girl slut this article is talking about. If you think u are good or not a slut, why would you not take home a party person like you??!!!

Ana's picture

Sorry Chase, but I completely disagree. Yes, some girls who party are no good for a long-term relationship, but you can’t generalize. I’m what you would label a party girl. I love going out with my friends, dancing, and having a good time. I also graduated Magna Cum Laude and was at the top 10% of my senior class in college. I also got into a competitive doctoral program. I’ve had 3 long-term relationships and never cheated on my boyfriends. Our relationships ended for other reasons unrelated to my “bad partying habits”. I’m just a fun girl who likes having a good time with her friends. I don’t do drugs, and I also have morals and values. And I agree. Most girls don’t go out, and I choose to not be friends with most of them because I think they are boring. It’s ok to not party. It’s their decision, but it’s not ok to label girls who like to go out as “not good enough” to be in a relationship with. I think I’m a loving day caring girlfriends when I’m in a relationship. And I am faithful and parents tend to love me. So, your post offended me. So, it’s ok for guys to have guys’ night out, but girls should just stay home reading a book on a Saturday night while their boyfriends go out and get smashed. Does that really sound fair to you? Please, stop judging women and look at each girl as an individual instead of assigning stereotypes.

Professor's picture

I’ve had 3 long-term relationships and never cheated on my boyfriends.

That right about sums it up. The party girl who is proud to be a serial monogamist because she never cheated on the guys she dated with. She was just monogamous with umpteen guys umpteen times in her life.

A party girl is not defined by her intelligence or her academic achievements. She's defined by her character. The inability to stick in a relationship.

Notice how it is guys who want to make the relationships stick with a woman yet the woman is incapable of sticking, not because she is a party girl, but for other reasons.

No honey...it's because the other reasons ALL 3 of these relationships failed are the same reasons relationships with party girls don't work. They have slippery characters

As was said before. This doesn't mean a party girl is a bad person. She's just not good material for producing offspring or doing her part in the relationship beyond opening her legs and other orifices. And she thinks she's special.

ohreally98's picture

Ana you are offended because you have been identified, but for some reason, you feel that your level of education is relevant when it's not (and I personally think you are lying just to make a point). But even if you're not lying, I think you are on the defensive because you know the author is 100% on point.

Georginhooo's picture

I stopped reading after "i had 3 long term relationships"..youll have many more relationships sweetheart.. good luck

Anonymous's picture

I agree completely the risks of infidelity from a party girl will always be greater than a non-party girl. You wouldn't get into business with someone who has tremendous risk. It doesn't make sense. A relationship should always start off as a logical decision first. Does it make sense logically to date this woman? Is she high risk? After she is screened then its ok to let the emotions come out (well some).

Women who make you strive to be a better person is the MOST attractive quality for me. Relationships/marriage are a business, your greatest assets are your time and money. Be careful who you lend your assets to!

I really wish men would do more of this screening process. It would force more girls to think twice about becoming or being labeled as party girls. On the other hand it would suck for men who aren't looking for anything serious (because of less party girls). But I dream.

Thanks Chase for a Great Read!

Thomas's picture

Do you find girls stop partying as they get older. I just left school in Ireland and 95%of people go to clubs. Will this number decrease when they go to college and beyond once the novelty has worn off and there is less social pressure to go out?

Joel's picture

Thomas, I've lived in Ireland and I really think the drinking part of this is a cultural thing for the Irish. It's just part of Irish culture. As for partying, keep in mind that partying doesn't necessarily mean clubs. I know plenty of women in their late 20s who are still party girls, meaning they still behave wildly, without care for others, and are heavy in substance abuse, like alcohol, although they don't necessarily go to clubs.

That said, women do tend to chill out on the partying as they get older. Although you'll find plenty of party type women in their late 20s and early 30s, I think once in their mid 30s, 98% of women do ease up partying, since most are married or just tired of the scene.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Thomas-

Women do pretty much across the board dial down the partying once they hit a certain age - usually it's between 27 and 33, depending on the girl, although occasionally a little earlier or a little later.

Personally, I'd still view "reformed party girls" as party girls... for fidelity purposes, partner count is strongly associated with infidelity risk, and just because a woman who was a hard partier hangs up her party hat doesn't mean she's now put on a "great partner" hat. It's usually the, "Oh, okay, I'm bored of this now... I guess I should commitment up - but this guy had better do what I want him to do!" hat.

The other issue you run into with reformed party girls is you have a much longer list of men she's comparing everything about you to. I wouldn't recommend an RPG as a partner in that respect unless you far and away have more sexual and romantic experience than she does (good advice for any relationship, really, but particularly worth keeping in mind here), and you've turned yourself into a solid enough guy that she realizes looking back none of her formers hold much of a candle to you (make sure you realize too that she's probably had some exceptional men in there - it's pretty easy even for a girl of average looks and personality to get an exceptional guy to share a bed with her if it's just for a night, and even if she COULDN'T get a relationship with him, she will still look back and think, "Man, that guy I hooked up with in Paris was SO much hotter than my husband... sigh").

Chase

Chatt's picture

Hey Chase,

Thank you for putting up such great articles. They'be really opened my eyes in ways that I thought wasn't possible before.
I have a request however. In this article you kept stressing how you should not get in to any form of relationship with a party girl and how you are pretty much screwed if you already have. You are pretty accurate about being screwed part. Once you get in to a certain something with those girls it's very hard to get out. So could you please write an article focusing more on how to get out of a destructive relationship you have with a party girl?. Solely because it's easier said than done and your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!!
Chatt

Anonymous's picture

Ah Thomas, I came across this page when I was googling about women here in Ireland drinkin and the obsession with it. I'm sick of my news feed filled with girls and women's status's being, "I'm so hung over,never again" or "so proud, haven't had a drink in 2 weeks".... Disgusting. These girls are mingers, immature and cheap. I am Irish, very qualified female homeowner, in my early 30's and would have in my day ,gone to clubs and house parties, but U would never have ever seen me fall around drunk. I'm not and never have been a drinker as such, though I do have a drink or 2. You are young and should enjoy yourself, while girls will go out with their friends , doesn't mean they are no good, just havin a bit of fun. Keep your eye out for the girls who DONT enjoy staggering around, with lovebites, cryin about some fella or bitch and declaring they're mouldy for all the world to hear. Watch for the girls who are deep in conversation with their friends or stickin together on the floor or mindin each others drinks, the ones who are clearly in control. There REALLY ARE girls who like to have a lil bop around to the music and like to get dressed up and MAYBE look out for a nice guy, coz believe me young fella, we girls who are ladies are out there, the same as decent guys do exist... if you just see past the mess of other drunken fools ...

Balla's picture

A have a few questions Chase,

How do you know if a girl is crazy before its too late? What early signs do girls show you?

How do you know you if a girl is lying to you about not being a club girl? Say if you met her during the day?

Don't club girls run around during the day too? How do you know you're not picking up a club girl during the day?

How do I get a high value woman if I'm not where I need to be in my life yet? Say she has her degree and I don't, More money than I do, a better career, wouldn't she be higher status than me? Why would she date me?

how are you so calm and nonchalant about stds and pregnancy claims? Those two things scare the shit out of me.

On club girls: I'm only going to just go for the one night lay for these creatures from now on. I don't know what it is but after the club there's no way for me to get these girls. They're all over me at the club, right after the club but, when it comes to texting it just is so stale. Do girls tend to switch up after the club? Or am I just do something so wrong? They love me in person but hate me over text.

Thanks Chase

David Lee's picture

Hey Balla,

Simply put, you don't know of a girl is a party girl until you screen her. Screening lets you know more about the girl and her know that you have standards. For example, a screen can be something like this, "What do you do to keep your life from getting lame, do you party, travel, or maybe vandalize property?"

To get a high value girl, you don't need to make six figures or be a superstar, just focus on what this site teaches (fundamentals, nonverbal communication, screening and qualifying, closing, etc.). This entire site is your guide to being a high-value man, but like Chase says, there are no shortcuts; you'll need to practice a lot and gain as many reference points as you can.

Hope this helped!
David Lee

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Balla-

Ricardus dove into warning signs for probable crazies here: Find the Right Girl: What to Look for in a Potential Girlfriend. It's mostly things like has she had a rocky past or been treated not well... it's sad to have to screen girls out like that, but people with bad pasts REALLY become self-destructive toward their future relationships and relationship partners, extremely consistently. Even close friends I've had who've been abused or had rocky pasts have founds ways to hurt me and everyone else around them... unstable relationship patterns are usually a strong warning sign (e.g., no old friends, doesn't maintain especially long-term relationships, etc.).

On knowing if she clubs - like what David said. It's all screening. You can't show an ounce of judgment here... if she thinks you're judging her, she won't open up. Some girls still won't because they're afraid of being judged and they KNOW clubbing is one of those things some men don't like. This is where it comes down to observing her behavior and the behavior of friends, if you meet them... if she likes you, she'll probably start inviting you to the bar / club soon enough, or you'll see her friends doing so with her.

Your money and career aren't as limiting toward getting high caliber women as you might think. But you do need to have SOMETHING you're exceptional in... even if it's just game and sexiness. I've known guys who were high school drop outs and nearly broke who were dating female TV stars, models, Olympians, etc. I've had beautiful female friends with great careers and working on their PhDs who were dating vagabond-like guys who traveled the world and didn't ever seem to DO anything (quite like the image I've worked to cultivate over the years). And there are plenty of men with lots of money and great careers dating women you wouldn't want to touch with a ten-foot pole, either for looks or personality or both. But the guys getting the high caliber women... they've focused on turning themselves into very attractive men: presence, sexiness, conversation, social skills, etc. Like David says here too - use the stuff on the site.

On club girls - women will frequently be very flirty in nightclubs. Sometimes they mean it and are genuinely attracted; sometimes it's just for fun. Usually though, if a girl is very flirty, it means she sees you as "safe." Women who are very attracted to you are not normally very flirty; flirting is "fun" while sexually aroused is somewhat intense and subdued. The women you want to go for are not the flirty ones - those are often nothing but big distractions - but the ones sitting over in a corner staring at you like you're a hunk of delicious meat. Those are the girls you want to go for.

Chase

lucifer7's picture

Hmmm I really really can't help but wondering: why on earth did you try to cultivate an image that is so far away from you?

I remember you once said you were republican-leaning, you definitely are a driven guy, one we could call a "doer", you get your hands dirty in start ups, work hard.... Why not choosing an image of, say, a world-wise businessman, a dominant go getter.. Or why not anything closer to your "real" personality?

CD's picture

Hi Chase..been a long-time reader and appreciate all the content you publish.

I wanted to share an observation and follow it up with question:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a small amount of drinking (at the very least) and hanging out with girlfriends over dinner or going out dancing with the girls seems to be the norm for girls out in the West / US. The set of girls that are totally away from this description would be an extremely small set. Rolling with this assumption then, what would appear to be acceptable behavioral pattern?

Case in point: I was seeing this girl for about 2.5 months who is doesn't seem like a party girl (in the interest of full disclosure, she is a single mom and a has a great job as an engineer at a reputed company). She would go out with her girlfriends regularly for quick dinners or brief dancing for a girlfriend's birthday (this happened only once while we were dating). She was very much into me, but was pushing for commitment too early. We did eventually break-up (her ex-boyfriend contacted her..and I think she wanted to see if things could work out with him -- at least that is my theory based on stuff I read / heard from my friends) but I want to learn from this experience: Would you say that her party / going-out behavior was within acceptable parameters or am I thinking this the wrong way? The reason I ask this is because, based on my assumption above regarding prevailing norms in the US, I want to develop a baseline of traits that would be suitable for finding a long-term relationship with a girl in the future.

Thanks a ton!

Felipe Gabela's picture

"How do you know if a girl is CRAZY?? How do i get a HIGH VALUE WOMAN?" I wish all this web page was a joke. Who do you guys think you are to judge people and what they like to do? Saying somebody is crazy because they like to party or drink is absurd. Who are you to decide what is acceptable or not acceptable? Each person is free of doing what they want if they are not affecting others freedom esphere. If you don't like to date party girls it fine, don't do it. But using adjetives as crazy to define them is out of place. Liking something or another doesn't make you better. High value woman? Stop objectulizing people, there is not such thing as high value woman or men. And if this ridiculously concept ever exists I am sure you are not going to be among the high value men, at least not with that close, retrograde mind of yours.I think you should seriously reflect in the way you use language to describe people different than you, you can not just throw words around and disqualify people. Its just an advise, but I strongly encourage you to do it because the world is moving for good towards a place where there is no place or tolerance for sexist ideas like yours and if you don't change you would have a hard time.

Professor's picture

You seem like a low value woman. Complaining and whining a lot. Exactly the type of quality a MAN does NOT want when seeking a long-term partner. I know you have a man's name Felipe, but I had to mention that your defensive response is exactly like the low value women.

Sorry, but the value of a person who is going to be in my life is going to be decided by ME. That's how it works. Get used to it. It's not sexist. It's selectist.

When was the last time you got laid?

Balla's picture

I had too make this a separate question/comment. I really don't want the 9-5 life you talk about in the article. I think if I lived a life like that I would die because that is not what I want to do forever. When I think of myself and life I think about it in the greatest way possible. No matter what, I know for a fact I will be doing something amazing with my life, it's all I ever think about.

I'm in my early twenties, working on my degree. What do I have to do now not to have an Ordinary life?

Is sports out of question? What about rapping, acting? Entertainment in general?

What do I have to get into to not have an ordinary life and not have the 9-5?

Thanks Chase

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Balla-

There are a few different paths to leading a life of relative freedom. The loose ends you largely need to tie up are:

  • Women
  • Money

Without money, you're locked in to whoever will give you employment, and wherever that employment is (or sends you).

Without women, you're at the mercy of unscrupulous women who chase after you only for your financial resources, or low caliber women who will be emotional drains and distractions.

Handling your financial and romantic positions (i.e., knowing how to get enough money to live your life and enough women of the kind and caliber you want to never be needy) frees you up to focus on nobler pursuits.

It's probably also wise to tie up self-defense (strength, endurance, combat training) and street and travel smarts too, if you'll be doing much travel in a variety of different places and routinely getting out of your element.

Girl stuff we talk about here all over the site. Money stuff, I'd suggest:

  • Get into a career that can make you LOTS of money FAST (investment banking is one example)

  • Learn a skill that allows you to do freelance work from anywhere and be well-paid - computer programming (PHP and Rails are the highest-paying and most in-demand right now), conversions is another one (making websites better at selling whatever it is they're selling), marketing, public relations, writing, and graphic design are others, although the pay on those isn't quite as large and there are lots of low-bidders for these in third world countries, albeit not exactly with perfect English

Sports is possible if you are an IMMENSELY gifted athlete at your sport (usually means you've put in your 10,000 hours at it) and are in fantastic shape. Rapping and acting are possible, but again, the people who are good are usually good. If you want this, study the rappers and actors who became famous, and how long they started working on what they were good at before they hit it big. e.g., DMX rapped for 15 years before ever making money off it. Eminem's first album was such a flop that he ended up being hospitalized after a suicide attempt. 50 Cent's first album got canceled after he was shot up, and from listening to the tracks on it probably would've just ended up leaving him another mediocre guy in the rap pantheon. Guys with good flows like Talib Kweli, Immortal Technique, and Saigon never made it big. Even Rakim, who's one of the most legendary figures in rap, I don't think ever made that much money. And all you've got to do is spend a little time in L.A. to see all the failed wannabe actors (or, take an acting class; from the one I took in 2008 - 2009 - with some pretty skilled people and beautiful girls - I think the best anyone got were a few commercials and a bit of extra work).

That's not to say these things aren't impossible... just that the people who make it big are really, really good. And that's what you need to be if you want to do something. And not just good... also, in the right city and in touch with the right people. You could be the hottest rapper in St. Louis, but there's not a real rap scene there and you'll never go national. New York is pretty much where you've got to be.

Chase

Max's picture

"Money stuff, I'd suggest: Get into a career that can make you LOTS of money FAST (investment banking is one example)"

I'm really glad you posted this advice because so many people mix up rich and poor, and they get confused about which one is better.

I can't tell you how many people I see being poor. They know firsthand how much it sucks to be poor, and they still aren't rich yet. What are they thinking?

But you make it clear; it's better to be rich. Growing up, a wise man once told me, "young grasshopper, it is better to be a rich man, than a poor man."

Laura's picture

Lmao I love this comment so much.

EnriqueP's picture

New York? Atlanta is the new rap capitol.

Halfguard's picture

Excellent article , I don't date girls who drink mostly because I don't like drinking or clubbing and I've never really liked the kind if girls that do , this just gives me more reasons not to do it , and for everyone out there, you would be surprised of how much women tha don't drink or club are out there but everyone thinks the other way my friends always get surprised that I find girls that don't drink
-Hg

G's picture

I can completely understand this article and simaltaeously agree, however as a college student, 99 percent of women who are even remotely attractive( and are single) go out and party/drink and have girls night out. This is especially true if there are looking for someone as a boyfriend. How would you apply this tactic to a college culture where women are programmed to go out, drink, and look for men in bars and clubs if they're single?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

G-

I can't say for sure about any given university - I haven't been to them all - but much of the time it's the circles you run with.

I went to the school that was the #1 party school in the United States at the time I attended it. And there were a LOT of girls who would party... it was part of what people went there for. But there were still some who didn't really party... although they could be hard to find, since they were never at any of the parties and weren't always the most sociable.

If you really can't find girls who don't club or party at your school, you could always just focus on getting your skills at meeting and bedding new women down and not worry about a relationship until after graduation. Or, you could date a party girl who meets most of your criteria and simply doesn't party as hard / get black-out drunk / pick up guys at nightclubs, if you still want a relationship.

Chase

The stuff miester 's picture

Hey Chase, I'm a young bachelor from NYC and I just happened to stumble upon this dialogue and I have to admit it is pure gold, I've been studying the philosophy's behind relations with women for quite some time now and I haven't heard someone put together anything that rivals this sort of informational tactical and strategic tools in my life time. Guys are dumb (genetically wired to be manipulated by women) but most men don't see it. Society ( Men more specifically) need this shit bro just want to thank u

Oskar's picture

Hey Chase, thanks for sharing your insights on living an exceptional life with everyone.Your vivacity and boldness of character inspires me to be more passionate and take responsibility for my life.
-
When you talk about "the whirlwind of chaos" it sounds like you are talking about the emotional affect of one of the many forms victim mentality can take, one that can effect even the strongest of men, even those who have long unyoked themselves from the less intimate more societal forms of victim mentality. Am I on target with this?
-
I've read most of your articles and underneath all of them is a principle heroic foundation that I think if made explicit in a single post could be extremely useful. A post that breaks down and organizes your personal core beliefs in relation to one another: things like the critical importance of knowing what you want, hard work, etc. Basically, addressing the problem of heroics that we all constantly face pragmatically through personal experience.

I ask this because I currently am struggling to focus my actions to any specific heroics, not a recipe for success, it can be quite paralyzing. And I can't think of anyone better than you to provide an exemplary heroic belief structure for living in the West in the 21st century.

Thanks again,
Oskar

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Oskar-

What I mean by "Whirlwind of Chaos" isn't actually victim mentality - rather, it's the tornado of drama and emotion and distraction that sweeps through your life when you're dealing with a dramatic girlfriend who's causing problems for you.

Anything important to you that causes you problems can easily become your sole focal point - a job that's suddenly giving you a lot of turmoil; a girlfriend who's giving you a lot of turmoil. Problems with a family member (maybe a family member is very ill and needs your attention and help). Some of these you can't get rid of - you're always going to have family, and you can't control what happens to them (if they're negative people, you reduce time on them, but if they're good people who just get sick, nothing you can do about that); if you have a tumultuous job, you can always change jobs, but you're always going to need SOME source of income, and there will always be headaches and distraction coming from that at least some of the time. When it's your GIRLFRIEND though, that's one you have the ability to screen for beforehand, and walk away from if the distraction is too severe. Something giving you turmoil isn't victim mentality - you may even look at it and say, "Crap, this is all my fault - I knew better than to date a girl like this, but I did anyway." It still causes you a lot of annoyance and unneeded diversion anyway, though.

A post on core beliefs - I suppose I could do something like that. I'd have to think of a way to make it applicable though... I don't know how many people want to read a post that is just "here is what I believe," and those sorts of posts can be rather polarizing, too ;)

Chase

Matt's picture

Chase, I definitely tend to agree with you when it comes to not dating these types of girl, I have had my fair share of experiences with them and its just not worth the hassle imo.

I haven't had a girlfriend for a while to be honest, I have been spending the majority of the last two years just having fun with girls and trying to improve my all-round skillset with women. However I feel like, at least for now, I would like to actually date a girl and perhaps take her as my girlfriend. I don't know where this desire has come from, but hey ho, I actually do feel like having something serious, perhaps just out of curiousity.

One problem I have with girlfriends has always been conversation. I mean, its easy to talk to a girl you've just met in my opinion because there is just simply SO much to know and deep-dive about, she's an unknown mystery and its thrilling to actually get to know a girl like that, I just find it easy to come up with things to speak about. However I do find deep-diving becomes much harder once you've already discussed the big topics and spoken about them, things like love, ambitions, goals, life, travel etc etc.

I mean what do you talk about with a girl you've been going out with for a while and basically already know a LOT about her? Do you just talk about day-to-day things swith occasional new deep stuff you find out about her? Is conversation even that important once the two of you really know each other? I mean for sure 'awkward silences' are not really awkward once you know a girl well. Its just I remember in the past being with my girlfriends, walking with them and just thinking hmm what the hell more is there to know... Would love your insight into this Chase. Thanks.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Matt-

Once you're already seeing a girl and you know most of what there is to know about her, conversation usually just becomes small talk ("Here's what I did today; what did YOU do today?") and sharing new things you've learned (e.g., I'll tell girlfriends about whatever interesting study I've just read about, or how fascinating the new hypothesis of humans being pig-chimp hybrids is to me, etc.). This is where having common interests steps in - if she loves fashion, you're probably not going to get along so well unless you find the fact that sheer is now "in" to be cool, too. And if you like technology, you're going to bore her to tears unless she thinks wingsuits are awesome and NASA's new warp bubble drive research is thrilling. If you're someone who's learning a lot, you'll probably always have new things to talk about.

That said, there's nothing wrong with silences, either. When I walk or drive somewhere with girlfriends, much of the time we're not talking. I watch movies with girlfriends quite a lot - no talking during those usually either.

And of course, sex. Not a whole lot of talking during that (well, some dirty talking, but that's about it).

A good mix of "how was your day" and "I just came across this website called bestgore.com and it's crazy, look at this picture" is enough... I wouldn't even actively try to find things to talk about, just talk about whatever you WANT to talk about, and if you don't have anything you want to talk about don't talk.

If she wants to talk about something, she will.

If she likes talking a LOT more than you do and she hates that you don't have enough to talk about, she's probably not a great match for your personality style - she needs a Chatty Cathy as a partner, and while you could pretend to be one for a few months, you probably won't be able to pull it off for, say, 30 or 40 years, if that's her style and it isn't yours.

Chase

J.R.'s picture

Chase, I noticed in your articles about self growth and healthy relationships that you did believe for a while that these kind of women are not the type of women you want in your life. I've been waiting to hear you say it!

Amen, brother. This article was further proof that I need to get away from these type of women if I want to grow as a person and form healthy, meaningful relationships with women.

I'm so glad to see this site get away from "how to bang chicks" to "how to grow as a person who women find irresistible." You can, in fact, have your cake and eat it too!

Thanks, Chase.

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase,

I apologize that this comment is completely unrelated to the article, but since your site is revamped, I can't find a post I was wanting. In regards to online dating, can you send me the e-mail you send to girls who don't reply to your initial message? I've used it before and it was a hit. At the very least girls would message me back and say they got a laugh from it. It was pretty killer. I'd appreciate if you could post it up!

Thanks!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

That sounds vaguely familiar... my attention span is a lot shorter these days and I usually forget if a girl hasn't replied to my email if I write her; I never remember to follow up. I remember having something that was like, "Well, I presume you ran off with the circus and [something silly and ridiculous]," but it's been quite a while since I used anything like that.

Can't for the life of me remember the article it's in either, unfortunately. This one's giving me a big blank spot in the memory department.

I might just try something like,

Hey, Sheila! I just heard from one of your friends that you adopted a litter of mountain lion cubs, and that's why you haven't been replying to me lately. Congratulations! I imagine that keeps you pretty busy.

Anyway, I know you're probably pretty busy with mountain lion-rearing and fending off the lion cubs' angry mother mountain lioness and all that, but when you get the chance I want to take you to a wine tasting at this insanely cool new winebar that just opened up downtown. Give me a bell. I'm at 555-555-5555.

Anon (that guy you were insanely attracted to when you met him 2 weeks ago)

Chase

Rafael 's picture

Hey there Chase, you think you could do a post/response on how to be a guy who others say:

"Wow, he saw right through me"

I'd imagine it makes women of (entitlement) high status very curious and excited to meet you.

P.S. I'm looking forward to that "How to be cool" post that will hopefully come around soon

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Rafael-

I'm way ahead of you; this post was principally about being unfazed when you're in a tough or challenging situation, but the same rule applies when a girl is acting hoity-toity (which is another kind of challenge):

Tactics Tuesdays: Staying Unfazed (When Girls Try to Faze You)

... you'll also want to make ample use of the bored look / skeptical look.

A general article on being unimpressed with accomplishments (especially when they're being thrown in your face in attempts to wow you or intimidate you) would be good though - I'll add that to the list.

And noted on "cool" - I haven't forgotten it ;)

Chase

NarrowJ's picture

This is a real eye opener for me. I have screened girls OUT that don't drink or go out. Because they are lame, and unlikely to go to bed with me quickly. Or so those have been my thoughts.

Granted, I'm not looking to have a relationship with ANY woman right now. I realize I'm at this intermediate skill level, and I need to keep meeting new women and figuring things out, learning more. However, when I DO eventually feel like I've reached a significantly high point with these skills, I may be open to relationships that are more than just dating.

I have attached my own stigma to these women, that stay at home and read and do productive things... that they would be overly difficult to sleep with quickly and become THE MAN in their life. I'm now realizing that it's just that, a stigma that I have generated and formed with my own mind. Not from actual experiences.

Thank you, excellent blog post!

NJ

Author
Chase Amante's picture

NJ-

Yes, absolutely right - you'll find out pretty quickly that these girls aren't any more resistant to sex than most girls are. They can be a little bit "stiff" sometimes... but that's what getting good at escalation for - it's for getting women comfortable and loosened up around you.

Well-read / productive women actually have a lot to talk about and do... they just don't party as much. You can still look for the ones who are sociable without being party girls, too (I prefer sociable women myself... no introverted nerd girls for me! I'd go crazy).

I'd probably say they're MORE interesting... unless you define interesting as "dramatic" (which certainly is interesting, in its way), though if that's the case, party girls tend to have non-party girls beat!

Chase

David Lee's picture

Nice article, Chase. I understand how defending your philosophy can be quite annoying, especially to people who unrationally accuse you of being a hypocrite.

A guy's self-serving bias can often convince him that his girl is different, that she would never do anything that those other guys experience. But this is a matter of control, you can't control a girlfriend who chooses to be exposed to temptation, but you can control yourself and which woman with the right qualities you choose to be with.

Danny's picture

Dear Chase,

What u mentioned here happened exactly the same as my experience with my first girlfriend.

She was ice-old to me because she had option but I didn't, that was back in yr 2008. It traumatized me so much that it pushed me into depression, my Academic grades in the university plummet. This piece of experience was really really painful to me for a long time....in the past I even avoid thinking about it, refreshing it because it causes negative thought that could undermine my self-esteem.

I was a fool who listened to some BULLSHIT advices such as "You need to make intellectual friends, but not much for gf"....I was such a fool. I wished I learned about your site and the Pickup community earlier in life. So I won't be some confuse at that time and get distracted by noises from worthless opinions of people who don't even know what they are talking about (Yup, u are also correct that when we find adviser, better NOT ask women).

Thank you very much Chase !!

I love you!!

Anonymous's picture

Great article Chase

In your response to my question on Talking About Relationships in "Does She Want You as a Boyfriend... or Something Else?" (I know, quite a while back!) I had a follow up question, if you could answer it here that would be great -

I'm still a bit confused though because in this article (Does She Want You as a Boyfriend... or Something Else?) you said "If you've been digging into her relationship history as you've deep dived". Does this mean that if you're advanced it is a good to way to understand the girl more and therefore plan your interaction around this, but should be left alone if you aren't as experienced?

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

It's very easy to have her start viewing you as a boyfriend OR as a psychiatrist / platonic pal whose shoulder she cries on if she gets into too much relationship talk and you aren't handling it appropriately. If you don't know what you're doing with it, and you want the highest chance you can get of taking a girl to bed, you'll want to largely stay away from talking about relationships prior to sleeping with a girl.

If you're more interested in learning how to talk about these and use them to your advantage though, and less concerned with taking the girl herself to bed (e.g., she's more useful to you as an experiment than a sex partner), that's the time to start playing around with this when it's still new to you.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hei Chase,

I was looking over your "Having Lots of Dates in Short Amounts of Time" article cause i think that somehow i've managed to put myself into the boyfriend candidate territory by accident cause i failed to disqualify myself as being boyfriend material the gist of it is that i met a girl in a club while i was practicing my physical escalation game and things went well she was hooked even if we didn't build comfort or go into vibing i tryed to pull but did not manage so she gave me her phone number even though i thought to myself after that she'll prolly flake cause we haven't talked all that much the night in question (i challenged her when we met to try to avoid flaking and that worked). We met after 3 days for a informational date got to talk to her and actually tryed to get to know her (tryed to build comfort this time) but while doing that i mistakenly communicated too much value (she liked what she heard and that's why i think she sees me as a boyfriend candidate now). Bounced from the place we had that informational date to her rooftop right after tryed to escalate there pulled back after a kiss or two went in her apartment (by using excuses) tryed there but she was "i would normally invite you for a drink in the other room but i did not plan that for tonight" (and i failed to use "let's just be friends" to overcome that) called it a night after some kissing cause i had to get up early in the morning to catch a flight and i'll be away for 10 days (she knows this and seemed not that glad that she met "a sexual and passionate man and now he has to go overseas for 10 days"). What would you recommend that i do when i get back in town? should i try to go for the romantic second date? (if she's still interested by the time i get back)
i know that you get a lot of questions in the comment section and your time is scarce but i would be thankful for some advice!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

I'd go for the romantic Date #2, yes, and frame it as something where you're going to tell her about your travels and show her your awesome pictures... and even tell her you have a surprise for her (but don't tell her what it is - some cool little souvenir you picked up overseas). That way, even if she's grown a little cool over the past 10 days / from the failed escalation, she'll have another reason to show up for the date.

Chase

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