(3) Journeyman

Groups of two girls are common in nightlife. It can be hard to peel a girl off her one friend, though. Here’s how to escalate in front of her instead.

Hey guys and welcome back.

My most recent articles discussed two paradoxes. The first is to give both girls in a 2-set attention to maintain the hook. By doing so, you will face issues, such as running out of things to say, inflating your material, appearing like a dancing monkey, and creating jealousy and confusion because you are giving both girls attention. I provided solutions last week that deal with these issues.

The second paradox is that you will not have the ideal setting to escalate the vibe when you deal with a 2-set. But because you must escalate the vibe at some point (stagnation = the death of the interaction), you find yourself in a dilemma: do you escalate in a setting where you cannot escalate the vibe very well—or do you wait and risk stagnation?

And that’s the question we will resolve in this article. I will explain how to escalate the vibe sexually and intimately in 2-sets. Yes, it is more challenging than running 3-sets (or larger) as you can isolate and escalate more easily from bigger groups.

Finally, we will discuss how to seal the deal when dealing with groups of two.

Talented seducers have a kind of ‘killer instinct’: they seem to know what to do and when to get the girl. How did they develop this – and how can YOU?

On the forum, a member shared a report of a girl he pulled to his place, only for him to forget to sexualize things with her once back. Instead, he held an engaging, yet platonic, conversation with her. After some time passed, she departed on friendly terms – nothing intimate having taken place.

A second member in another report discussed a pair of dates he’d had with a girl. This girl had signaled strong sexual interest in him from the first date… but he had yet to make a move. He planned to have her at his house for a third date. He hoped to finally get up the gumption to make his move then.

All across seduction forums you can find stories like these. You can find them other places, too. A few months back I shared some tales from women talking about guys who’d moved too slow and how disappointed these women were. Most guys who eventually become skilled seducers are guilty of moving too slow and missing escalation windows plenty in their younger years, too. I certainly was. My early years were littered with lost lays, purely because I lacked the ‘killer instinct’ to make the move.

You should not be discouraged though.

The development of this instinct takes time.

Once you have it, it will begin to feel strange you ever once lacked it.

An interest loop is a tactic to intrigue a girl without giving her instant satisfaction. Instead you loop her into talking as she wonders what you’ll say.

Let’s have a quick look at combining interest bait with open loops – something we’ll dub ‘interest loops’. This is really only for intermediate and advanced socializers, but might still be an interesting read even if you’re not there yet.

As a recap, interest bait is anything you say that piques a girl’s interest in what you’ll say next or why you’re saying it. For instance, “You know who you remind me of?” or, “Can I ask you something persona?”

An open loop is a conversation thread you open, then leave open, while you switch over to another conversation thread. For instance, if you open a loop talking about your recent trip to California, then without closing that thread switch to having her tell you about her semester abroad in France. When the semester abroad thread ends, you can return to the California trip – or just open more loops.

The benefit of interest bait is its ability to intrigue girls who might otherwise not be tuned in (or even have one foot out of the interaction).

The benefit of open loops is that conversations feel ‘incomplete’ when they still have conversation threads left open… so you can keep a bunch of loops open and she’ll feel more committed to continuing the conversation.

So what happens if you combine interest bait with an open loop, creating what we’ll call interest loops?

An irate reader accuses me of being a bad man leading conservative girls astray. I ask why white knights like this think girls don’t want sex?

I wrote an article on picking up shy, conservative girls who don’t go out, after guys have been requesting I write this for some time now. As I expected, it triggered some angry white knighting. A reader commenting on the article called me (in essence) a bad man and implied that I am using treachery to beguile poor, unsuspecting damsels into the sack, where I rob them of their innocence (and, presumably?, ruin them for their actual good conservative husbands who will come after me).

I’ll post his comment in full:

Considering that most girls sleep with two or less men in their lives, and conservative girls are in that subset, picking them up is usually unethical.
These women are looking to be with a single man, and being inexperienced they aren't terribly resistant to someone attractive who knows what they're doing.

"First, if you are a conservative man who thinks conservative girls are angels and no man should ever talk of picking them up and despoiling them, cool your heels. The guys I’ve had requesting this article are all guys who want to date these girls as girlfriends, ***or even*** take them as wives."

This last sentence comes from your worldview when it comes to commitment. Wanting to date these girls as girlfriends, where you interact with them for a few years then dump them, is atrocious. These are people who want to find someone to settle down with forever, often also wanting that person to be their only partner, and here you seem to think that 'giving' them a few years of 'commitment' - where there is no intention of marriage from the beginning! - is ... honorable or something.
"Or even wives!" Is worse, as though that's some extreme scenario. That's the baseline expectation for these women when getting into these relationships, and only an apparently extreme subset of the readership looking to sleep with them have the same expectations.

Men looking to marry conservative women might need help, but you're the wrong person to do it.
Men looking to use a conservative girl for months or years and then dump her, are not good people and should not be helped.

(Morally, men who are dealing with virgin conservative women should generally not sleep with them unless they want to marry them. It is hurting them and betraying their expectations. )

Aside from jumping to a bunch of wild conclusions that require some pretty egregious leaps of faith (that: conservative girls universally want to settle down ASAP with the first guy they get with; that conservative girls ‘only ever want one partner’; that I consider marriage an ‘extreme scenario’ [lol?]; that men who want to date conservative girls are “looking to use them for months or years then dump them”; that we said anything at all about sleeping with virgins), the comment itself regards women as these helpless waifs; regards charming men as predators; and regards men like this commenter the poor waifs’ gallant protectors.

I’ll discuss most of these points briefly, but only briefly, as they’re all points I have covered before already.

Beyond that, though, I want to answer a question that arises from this reader’s screed: is it possible to trick women into sex who absolutely DO NOT WANT to have sex with you at all?

Clubs that close late can seem like great spots to pick up girls. But there’s a catch – take too long & you’ll find they empty out far before closing time. You need sound strategy to succeed!

Hey guys, welcome back.

Last week, we discussed strategic choices where clubs and the general nightlife close early, around 3 a.m.

To recap:

• You must be bolder (more sexual and explicit, escalate the vibe faster, and screen out unreceptive girls). How much you screen depends on your skill level and how close it is to closing time.

• Long-winded verbal and social proof game that take time are not ideal strategies.

• You rely on the dynamics during prime time (1 to 1.5 hours before closing) to amp up things when girls tend to be more receptive. Use the plausible deniability from the club closing to leave the club with her (and her friends) to pull back to your place (or hers) or go to an after-party.

I won’t review further details from the last post since if you are reading this one and haven’t seen last week’s, it may mean that where you live, venues close late, and you are looking for ways to deal with later closing hours.

FYI, when I talk about late talking hours, I mean venues with closing hours starting at 5 a.m. to venues that never close.

• Warm-up venues that close earlier than the main venues do not count, although you can meet girls and seal the deal there earlier.

• Some cities where clubs close at 6 a.m. have after-hours venues that close at 9 a.m. or later (or don’t close). As you can imagine, the crowd is very niche with true party people. I enjoy those venues, but most people will be home before the regular clubs close. When most venues close and people stop partying there, that defines the “closing hour” where you are.

“Late” closing time is typically after 3 or 4 a.m. Most southern, eastern, and central European clubs close around 5 to 7 a.m. But some clubs in Germany open Friday and close on Sunday afternoon. As you can imagine, these are in Berlin, where there’s a niche market.

So, what is the dynamic of such venues?

When you pick up girls drunk, you behave in a more instinctive way – that SOMETIMES works better. I share 10 lessons learned from picking up drunk.

I talked to a guy the other day who asked me if it was hard figuring out what went wrong (when things did go wrong) back when I was first learning to pick up girls.

I said yes, to some extent, but I think I had it easier than many guys. I more or less started out my seduction journey with the VAC attraction model. That gave me a system for deciphering what was happening in a pickup and why right from the get-go. I also had a few other troubleshooting tools I received pretty early on.

Another thing I did while learning, I told him, was to “pay close attention to what Drunk Chase was doing.”

Back in the day, I used to be a pretty heavy drinker. A lot of guys get sloppy when they’re drunk and do a lot worse at picking up girls. But my problem when I was newer was social anxiety. Me getting drunk made me fun, cool, and smooth. I’d often go out, get very drunk, and pick up girls… a lot more easily than I could when sober. One of my early wingmen remarked to me that, “You’re really relaxed and cool when you’re drunk. I wish you could be like that all the time!”

He had a fair point. So, I made it my goal to be more like Drunk Chase all the time.

After that, even when I was hammered drunk, there’d be a little ‘Sober Chase’ inside my head, observing what I was doing, and taking notes. “Oh wow, I can’t believe I just did that,” I’d be saying, as Drunk Me pulled off yet another wild thing with a girl. I’d be even more shocked that it worked.

The lessons I learned from Drunk Chase I then applied to Sober Chase’s game.

As it turned out, they worked just as well sober as they did drunk.

I don’t drink to excess anymore. I kicked that habit, fortunately. It got a little too out-of-hand at one point. I was putting myself in too many risky situations while drunk and had one too many close calls.

Nevertheless, I still learned a lot during that period, and since the topic came up the other day, I thought it might be fun to share 10 of the lessons I learned from ‘Drunk Chase’ about how to better pick up girls.

Some nightlife venues close early. Yet you can still pick up girls at them. The way you go about it requires good strategy – and a little advance planning.

Hey guys, welcome back.

In the next two posts, I’ll discuss the strategic management of nighttime game. Today, I will start with nightlife with early closing times, and next week, I will discuss how game changes when nightlife never truly sleeps. We will discuss how your game should vary given the venue’s hours where you live and clubs that close early (at or before three a.m.) or later (after 4 a.m.). It’s an under-discussed yet important factor you should not neglect, as it affects dynamics and your strategic choices.

When I talk about late opening hours, I refer to the usual opening hours of most venues in a particular location (where you live).

I won’t discuss after-hours places, as they are not the norm. Say most clubs close at 3 a.m. where you live, but a few after-hours places are open until 5 or 6. Unless the after-hours clubs are the norm in your nightlife (only a niche tends to go frequently), then it is the “standard” opening hours I am considering; in this case, 3 a.m.

Similarly, even if most clubs close at 3 a.m., some venues may close earlier. In this case, we still consider the closing hour to be 3 a.m. because the places that close earlier, say at 1 a.m. (usually smaller venues like pubs or lounges), can serve as a warm-up, and most frequenting these will eventually go to a club. Thus, the normal opening hour is what you should consider in your assessment.

It does not mean you cannot pull from venues that close earlier, nor does it mean you cannot pull early. However, in your overall game plan, you should not consider this due to the likelihood of ending up in a place that follows the usual closing hours.

The normal closing hours in your city can vary by location. You can get a good idea of what it is by checking:

• The time clubs are legally allowed to be open without a special permit (after-hours venues).

• The time most people head home.