(3) Journeyman

Women did not use to sleep around so much or be so promiscuous. Except, well, the men of the past had this very complaint about the women of THEIR days!

So ur take is —- you don’t really think the average social media modern girls (19-30yo) bodycount is higher than pre social media era? I know nobody can be sure. But hard to imagine it’s not higher now imo

— Don ladder (@DonLadder) November 6, 2024

There is this meme that’s been going around for about 8,000 years now that women in the past didn’t use to have as much sex with guys as they do today, that previous generations were purer, and that only recently have women become a lot more promiscuous and started sleeping around with men more.

You can read about it in the complaints of ancient Greeks, Romans, and Arabs from 1,500 to 2,500 years ago.

The ancient Chinese 2,000 years ago were so upset about women acting sluttier than they had in the past that they wrote an entire moral guide for women on how to not act slutty and be a good wife entitled Biographies of Exemplary Women and used it in the moral instruction of girls and women for two millennium.

Jesus’s apostles marched all around the Mediterranean 2,000 years ago, inveighing against the promiscuity they found everywhere (too many verses to list), and the Hebrew Bible from hundreds or thousands of years earlier found promiscuity such a problem it had to add specific instructions telling the daughters of priests not to go whoring (Leviticus 21:9) and women to stop cheating on their husbands (Hebrews 13:4).

We don’t have records dealing with increasing promiscuity in the women from ancient Sumer 8,000 years ago (so far as I’m aware) but based on this complaint occurring in every other epoch it was almost certainly a complaint of the civilized men then too.

Jean-Jacques Rosseau, writing in France in the 18th Century, called female promiscuity a “threat to social order” and recommended that women be taught to focus on domesticity rather than intellectual pursuits, lest they run around sleeping with men everywhere and upend society.

Men are still complaining about this phenomenon today: the apparent continuously rising tide of sluttiness in the women of every passing generation.

Men have complained of this phenomenon so long in so many places that by now you’d expect there to be some kind of SLUT APOCALYPSE, with women going to bed with hundreds of men before they even leave their teens.

But instead, the median number of lifetime sex partners for an American woman in the 21st Century is not hundreds nor thousands, but 3.

Yet why does it seem always, at all times and places, that women were purer in the past?

Women initiate 69% of divorces. Among the most empowered (college-educated) women, it’s 90%. Why though are women who driving so much of modern divorce?

Commenting on my article about why women always seem to go for the wrong guys, Vince C. asks

Chase, overall I certainly agree with most of what you're saying here but I think there should be a follow up article to this.

Because I'm genuinely curious, why is the divorce rate hovers close to 50% if many girls believe they are choosing the right guy for themselves, later to find out that this was in fact not the case?

A reader named Montage replies to Vince, noting that

Back in the day, a researcher looked at the divorce rate, concluding it was actually around 33-35%. The 50% figure was supposedly inflated by "serial divorcees."

I'm not sure why you're exclusively blaming women, though. What about the guys who filed for divorce? Some of them assumed they had found "Ms. Right," only to end up wrong. Other men marry their first wife for pure economics. Once a dude's career has taken off, he drops her for a trophy wife. I remember some guy did exactly that. Once his first wife had helped him graduate from schools of both law & medicine, he ditched the poor woman. He's no longer with us, and she's doing life in prison.

Another issue you're overlooking is that women's market value is mostly attractiveness/youth. For that reason, many will marry out of a fear of ending up as a spinster/weirdo, or out of a fear of life on one income, not because they feel they've found somebody special.

We know divorce happens.

We know it doesn’t always happen.

In India in 2024 the divorce rate was 1%.

In the United States in 1924, 100 years ago, the divorce rate was 14.4%, which is about a quarter what it is today. The U.S. was already the world leader in divorce at this point (and had since 1916).

Yet if you go all the way back to 1867 in the United States, the earliest date we have reliable data for, the American divorce rate was just 3%, not very much higher than India’s in 2024.

You can see how divorce rates have changed over the years in the U.S.:

U.S. marriage & divorce rates, 1867-2010

Obviously, we are looking at something highly variable over time.

Women initiate 69% of divorces overall. However, among women with the greatest amount of personal liberty – that is, college-educated women – women initiate a jaw-dropping 90% of divorces.

If women are carefully selecting men for a lifelong commitment, why are they the ones who most often break that up?

Once you’ve seen the dark side of women – how callously they can stray on men who deeply love them and lie about it – can you ever trust a girl again?

Over on X, there was a good long thread where guys shared their experiences being ‘side guys’:

Want to pick up somewhere with plenty of hot, rowdy women who’ve had a little to drink, but don’t want to stay out late? Pick up girls at daytime brunches!

This post by DoWhatWorks originally appeared on our forum here.

TLDR: Go to girly “brunches” that are hosted in big bars or small clubs and arrive as they close around 5-6 PM. Talk to girls who’ve been there since 1 PM, have sex by midnight.

I did this last weekend (didn’t bother writing it up because it was a “just don’t mess up situation” with not much game used) & guys in my circle have been doing this too.

These venues have crazy ratios with horny girls and hardly any guys there as we’re typically lazy/unorganised & don’t plan activities or events.

The hardest part is finding the right brunch event, venue & time combination but once you do, it’s easy if you have game & are willing to approach.

The average man tends to fall into over-simplistic thinking on girls. Men who are highly skilled with women, however, view girls in a far more nuanced way.

I’ve been spending a little time on X.com just to see if it is possible for us to build that out more as another channel to reach a bigger audience. I’ll probably play around with it a few more weeks at least to see if we can get traction, then reassess if it’s worth continuing to bother with (or not).

But while I’m there, one of the things they tell you to do if you want to grow on X is to interact with a bunch of other larger accounts every day. The reason is that regular users will see you posting, grow acquainted with you, check you out if they like your stuff, and follow you. Over time, you build up an audience on the platform.

As I do this ‘homework’, reading these various other accounts’ takes on women and dating, then read the replies, it reminds me once again how little nuance there is in the vast majority of men’s conceptions of women.

The nice guy ‘blue pilled’ guys think women are basically like “men with vaginas.” They expect women are as driven and capable as men are at doing all the things men like best, that women hold essentially masculine values/virtues, and that women basically think like men, albeit colored through the lens of feminine experience. A few weeks doing cold approach would completely disabuse them of these ideas.

Then on the other side the (often bitter) ‘red pilled’ and ‘black pilled’ guys also engage in gross over-simplifications about women, but in the total opposite direction. Women to these men are irrational, self-interested succubi. Women are coldly focused on getting the best-looking, or highest status, or richest, or most confident man they can get (depending on the biases of the man sharing his opinion); any man who does not measure up is basically driftwood. In these guys’ cases, a few weeks of cold approach would also disabuse them of much of this – although only once they’re getting results (and not just one-night stands with psycho chicks!).

This kind of thinking (the blue pill guys, red pill guys, and black pill guys) is fine so long as a man is content hanging around in the peanut gallery, firing off opinions for the consumption of others who are also in the peanut gallery.

But the instant he wants to be in the arena – and actually succeeding with women in a repeatable, engineerable way – he has to throw this stuff out.

He has to learn to see nuance.

The statement of intent (SOI) is a powerful tool in the seducer’s arsenal. Combined with a barrier it can be used to dramatically push a seduction forward.

A common problem guys have chatting up new girls is “stalling out.” That’s what we call it when you approach a girl, open her, she seems receptive, you flirt a little bit… and then this whole vibe of, “Okay, so… where’s this going to?” settles over the interaction.

Then it gets awkward.

Then you hear, “Well, it was nice to meet you!” and the girl ejects.

Maybe she liked you!

Maybe it could’ve gone somewhere!

But it didn’t, because she couldn’t figure out where things were headed next, and you failed to lead. How DO you lead properly and avoid having interactions with girls stall out this way?

One way to do it is by stating your intentions (a.k.a. stating your interest).