How to Use Indirect Game to Get Girls | Girls Chase

How to Use Indirect Game to Get Girls

Over in the comments section of the post on how to get a girl's phone number, Hunter asked for a review of indirect game:

Hey Chase, I'm so glad you got to this, I actually had an exact question about phone numbers only to have you answer it with finesse!

I was pondering however about the aspects of city game vs closed space game, small towns or places you return to because you have to, school or work.

I have done direct openers in places like school and around my city of medium size, but it can go awry easily and when it does, you hear about it back! It is almost normal to meet girls again whom I've approached before. The fleeting moment of awkwardness is fine, but if every girl I approached went awry at school, that'd be too much to handle.

I remember your post on direct vs situational approaching. I advocate direct approaching, but I feel they are not the best in places I return to frequently because I have to.

Can you go over the aspects of situational game? I know most guys actually get stuck in situational game, but after doing more direct openers, I'm having a hard time in situational environments coming off too strong or putting too much social pressure on her!

Thanks again, don't you guys stop anytime soon!

Hunter

If you don't know indirect game, it's essentially using either situationally relevant (ideally) or other non-direct (e.g., not stating your romantic / sexual intentions) openers and conversation to meet new women and move things forward with them.

indirect game

And, like most aspects of pickup and seduction, indirect game can be very effective - done right.

But also like most aspects of pickup and seduction, there is a right way to do indirect game... and a wrong way, and like most aspects of pickup and seduction (and I'm still not sure why this is) the wrong way is the one you'll usually hear about most.

So let's clear this up and get you using indirect right.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

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Comments

Walls's picture

Wow, this is literally the only type of game I run. Now I know what it's called! Indirect direct... I find women really dig this, I get to not be so direct (secretly, I don't want to be), it obeys the law of least effort, and indirect direct actually makes you seem more mysterious playful, and sexual. Sometimes, maybe a little too playful and sexual (a lot of the words I say, I'll inflect them in a sexual manner.) Is there a too playful and too sexual? Granted, I do make the conversation more serious and about her as the convo flows.

But yeah, this is the type of stuff I'd picture a guy like James Dean or, like you said, James Bond using. Thanks for identifying it, Chase - reading this was like seeing myself in a mirror!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Walls,

Yeah, this type of game is good stuff isn't it? I think most guys who stay at this long enough eventually come to this style... it just works better than most everything else.

You can always be too much of ANYTHING... but if you're including the two together, it's pretty hard to be too playful + sexual simultaneously. The only way this works out to be bad is if a guy's so focused on being playful and sexual that he starts ignoring cues from her and she begins to feel like he's not genuinely there with HER and rather is just running through a process. e.g., she wants to get serious and talk about something from her past, and the guy keeps throwing sexual innuendo at her.

Another scenario where it can be too much is when you ramp up sexual tension too fast without having logistics sorted, and then it crashes when you're trying to get her somewhere to escalate and she goes cold. Those ones always suck because it was a girl you COULD'VE had, but you took it too far without realizing you weren't going to be able to maintain that peak without getting to intimacy FAST. Better to keep the pot simmering that let it boil over.

Normally though, if you stick to playful and sexual, and make sure you're serious when she needs to be serious and that you keep the sexual stuff under your thumb until you're somewhere you can escalate it all the way, you're absolutely fine.

Best,
Chase

Adrian Lam's picture

Hey Chase, i know you've been busy but i just want to drop in and say thanks for uploading a new article almost every day these two weeks. It's always refreshing to hear what you have in mind.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Adrian, no need to thank! I'm making a conscious effort to get more content on here, especially the stuff that people've been asking about. I've cleared the slates on some other things, and want to give GC more time than I had been for much of the year.

If you have anything in particular you'd like to see a post on, drop me a line in the comments on a recent blog post, that's the easiest way for me to see it. Otherwise man, hope you like the stuff that's been going up and the stuff that's coming up soon!

Cheers,
Chase

Franco's picture

This put a smile on my face... I was just in Vegas a couple of weekends ago explaining the "process" of approaching women to a really close friend of mine that I had learned off of this website. I've only been doing this type of approach for a few months now, but my good buddy was really intrigued after I had approached multiple women that weekend and ended up with phone numbers rather easily. He is the ultimate example of "hiding the banana" when it comes to women, and I just so happened to use the "James Bond" analogy to explain to him how it should be done. I told him exactly what to say and do (referring to what I now know as the "indirect direct" method) and he ended up spending the rest of one of those weekend nights with a girl. He's a great guy, so it was pretty cool to see him have some success. =)

On another note, Chase, I've recently tried to jot down any questions that have come up in my head with anything regarding women in general that I believe could use an answer (or possibly even a blog post). Here's just a couple that I'm curious about:

1. Sexting. In most of your texting blog posts, you claim to keep texting to a bare minimum. Do you engage in sexting at all, or does it go against your mantra of "busy men don't have time to text?" If you do... maybe a blog post on this would be fun? ;)

2. Maintaining a good personal Facebook or Social Networking appearance. I think this would require a blog post (or maybe even a series of blog posts), but interacting with women on Facebook (whether directly or indirectly through posts/pictures) is a big part of the way individuals connect and socialize with each other today. Do you have knowledge or advice in this area?

I have more questions, but I feel like this is good for now.

And as one of the above posters stated, thanks for the increased productivity in making posts! They are always a pleasure to read.

- Franco

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Franco,

Very cool story on your friend. That's truly one of the most fun things to do once you've got your own game trained up... taking a friend who's still flying blind, pointing him in the right direction, and then watching him start rack up some successes. It's always really satisfying.

Good questions on sexting and Facebook / social network.

Sexting I've never done in my life... I'm always the last to adopt technology, and I've never had a phone that allowed the sending / receiving of text messages. These days I'm totally averse to texting for any reason other than logistics, too... when I get any kind of, "Hey, how's it going, let's talk over text!" type communication from girls, I basically just grunt and turn the phone over, or send them something back akin to, "Totally, we should meet up! When's your schedule open?"

But I'll keep it at the back of my mind... I'll see if Ricardus or anyone else has experience with using that effectively and wants to write something on it.

On Facebook - let me do a post on this. I started writing a response and realized I had a lot of content on it... I'll put an article up on it instead!

Cheers,
Chase

Author
Chase Amante's picture

All right Franco, post is up-

Why to NOT Meet Girls on Facebook

I spent a little time breaking down how I used to meet girls on Facebook at the end, too... hope this gives you some more insight into the medium!

Chase

JFAV's picture

Now this was a great post. It's something I've naturally done a few times in my life and the times I did it were GOLD. In fact I just used a form of it a night ago and got into a pretty saucy text convo with a cute friend of mine.

I came off too strongly at the end but I can definitely see the benefits of this style. I was confused or curious as to what was being said in between the lines in the conversation.

Was the guy hinting that he liked her style and that she was his whole reason for staying there? I'm still a lil hazy on how to use it myself, but then again its late and I should be a sleep lol!

I think I'm looking for more of that analysis you gave in the conversation example. That one was heavily detailed... maybe I should read that one again.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey J,

Glad you liked the post.

You're part right on that last line about her style being better than most - our hero there WAS saying he liked his style, though not that she was his reason for being there.

The way that compliment is structured, and the reason it might seem a little confusing, is because it's structured to look not like a conscious compliment and more like an observation - something he's just noting in passing. Which in some ways is more powerful than a compliment... what she reads it as is he actually likes something about her, and it just kind of slipped out without him meaning to. So she gets to think to herself, "Aha! He DOES like me! And he doesn't know I know... haha..."

Some girls are socially sharp enough to pick up on this, if they've been around game enough, and they just read it as a more subtle, more savvy compliment than what most men employ.

The parts that talked about his reason for being there are A) he's already ordered his hot chocolate before noticing the decorations, and now he's stuck, and B) he's intrigued by the rug (but she knows he's being facetious). So actually he hasn't really told her why he's there still - he's brushed off the question with humor while seemingly answering it... but at some point she may come back to it again, feeling intrigued and realizing her question was never satisfactorily answered, and ask him again: "So why are you HERE??"

(he can just say something like, "It's close to my house. I like the cocoa here, too," and then get the conversation back on track)

Hope that clears it up :)

Chase

Balla's picture

Hey chase, just want to say i like how you stay so apart of this website and help us guys out but can you please tell me what I'm doing wrong. I come straight out with my interest to females, I move fast, i dont stick around them very long or do any of that friend zone crap because my time is important, they give me so much attention, they flirt with me, they hug up all over me and hold hands, they buy me things and drive me around. I get treated like a star with all the compliance I get but when it comes to them coming over my pad it never happens. What's going on?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Balla,

Hard to say from just your brief comment there, but if I had to guess it sounds like you're throwing all your cards on the table, which is fine, but then you've got to challenge them a lot unless they're compliant early on, and it sounds like that's not happening yet.

Direct is best for either a same-day / night pickup, or if you're just going to talk to them briefly and then set up a date that you progress things on quickly after that.

The thing with direct is it takes everything up a notch; a girl receives direct game from you and thinks, "Whoa, this guy's SERIOUS." The slower it moves to sex though, the more she starts thinking, "Oh, he's still inexperienced and hasn't figured it out... well, it's CUTE that he's trying!" And she'll still like you and respect you, but it won't be a sexual like and respect.

When I was starting out and used direct, I'd have girls be really flirty and pay for things for me too, but then it'd never progress to actual physical intimacy. You get this vibe from them that's kind of like, "You're CUTE... but you're not quite READY for me yet." In other words, while she likes you, she still knows she's firmly more in control than you are, and if anything happens it'll be because she says so, rather than because you do.

I don't know if that's what you're experiencing exactly, but that'd be my best guess. The way I solved it for myself was to start seeing flirting as a kind of "uh-oh" marker... too much flirting goes on and I'm firmly in "cute-but-not-ready-yet" territory. These days, the instant a girl starts flirting with me too much, I move things to the next level - put-up or shut-up time. That's when you find out if she's legitimately interested in you or if she's just pulling your chain. With very flirty girls, this makes figuring things out quickly very easy - either you keep escalating, and she keeps going along with it, or you hit a roadblock and find out she's just doing it for kicks, and you cut her loose and move onto a girl who's genuinely interested in you.

Best,
Chase

Adrian's picture

Chase,

Great to hear from you! Cultivating an "edge" is something you often talk about. That said, my understanding of what exactly constitute this "edge" is still rather spotty. To me, cultivating an "edge" is a movement along the "disarming and friendly" model towards the "bad-boy/don't-give-a-shit" model. Considering being warm and welcoming an integral factor in your process, how does cultivating an "edge" fit into it? Furthermore, during your journey in developing "edge" to your character, what are some specific areas/mindsets you worked on?

Many thanks,
A

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Adrian,

Yes, you're right - I've had a few people asking me to post on edge (maybe you were one of them), and I forgot to get that one up, didn't I.

Edge is another one of those one's that's going to be interesting to finesse an article out of... I don't know if I've ever properly described it before.

But then, half the stuff that goes up here is stuff I've never properly described before, so I doubt it'll be TOO challenging ;)

Look for that sometime soon.

Chase

George's picture

Hi, chase. Nice post again. I learned a lot tonight, man! Thank you so so much.
But I'm a bit confused about know to screen and qualify woman while you are keeping yourself indirect direct. I think many of us out there are more like the mexican food guy in your example,Like me, haha. Can you give an example about how it is done right, please?
Thank you.
George

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Howdy George,

In fact, I already have - though it might be hard to see buried in there (which is what you want... good game's about subtlety rather than blatancy). If you browse through "Conversation Example," you'll see a variety of instances:

When he asks her, "Okay, well, why are you doing a job that's just okay? Why not find one that's amazing?"

^ that's a challenge and a screen. She feels pressure to answer appropriately, but it isn't a silly question like, "Can you cook?" It's a deep one - he wants to know why she's choosing the life paths she does.

When he asks her, "Like… well, I don't know. If you could do anything else in the world and get paid the same as what you get paid now, what would you do instead?"

^ that's another challenge / screen. She feels pressure to not be silly but also to be honest here about what she'd really want to do. It's also much more crucial to the core of who she is than whether she can cook Mexican food or not, and leaves a much stronger impression when she successfully gains qualification from him.

When he asks her, "You take pretty good pictures?"

^ it was contextual, she'd just said she loves photographs. He doesn't much care if she does, it's purely conversational, but the mere fact that he's not just letting her get by with a throwaway connection statement - he wants details, he wants to know her - makes her feel he's not going to let her be fake around him the way she might be with everyone else ("Oh yeah, I'm a photographer too!" Then everybody pats her on the back).

When he asks her, "So tell me about yourself; I don't know anything about you."

^ timed right in the conversation (once she already feels like he knows something substantial about her), this is also a well-placed screen. Instantly she goes from thinking, "Well, I've told this guy more in 10 minutes than most of the people in my life know about me. Now I can just coast and relax and he'll think I'm great." Nope - he still needs to know more. This also signals how firmly in control of the conversation he is, and that he isn't afraid to act like he doesn't know her, which most guys who don't actually know her are.

... and there are a million more examples like that weaved in there, but those are a few of the ones that stood out when I glanced back through it. Back when I wrote that, I wasn't even thinking, "Screen, screen, screen;" screening is just hemmed into the process of deep diving itself - you can't do deep diving without screening a girl pretty heavily just by default.

Anyway, to me, that's screening done right - it's about stuff that really matters to the girl and her identity, and it doesn't feel patched together like standard screening questions thrown inelegantly into a conversation do.

However, when you're starting out, you'll almost always have to start out patchwork and gradually make your way to interwoven, so it isn't a strike against you if you aren't totally smooth just yet ;)

Cheers,
Chase

Author
Chase Amante's picture

It slipped my mind, but the article on screening and qualifying women linked to above is completely about exactly this subject, too:

"Is Qualifying Women Really That Important?"

Chase

JFav's picture

You know Chase after reading many of your articles these days and trying to practice a lot of them I'm realizing a lot about myself. For one I've realized I'm REALLY opinionated and a very strong with it too.

Another thing I've been told is I'm not a very cheery, positive individual instead "I'm negative and sarcastic." I'm also known as pretty serious too.

And, after reading through this post and imagining myself doing this I thought "there's no way I could pull that off right now" lol!

I think the girl would be freaked out or too nervous to speak with me. So, my question to you is what do you think of these things I'm mentioning here?

These days I've been in a funk not really wanting to talk to people or even interact with women in general because I've noticed these things. I have a feeling they are something that is inherently wrong with my game.

In fact, after mulling it over I feel like you did when you say you came off as "that angry red headed guy."

Just wanted to get your thoughts on this and see if its something I DEFINITELY need to change. And, if so are there any articles or things you'd recommend for me to read or do?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey J,

You know, that's a tough one. On the one side, yes, you definitely DO want to rid yourself of negative comments and thoughts - you've probably seen it already, but the post on overcoming depression focuses on the thought portion of this, and the thoughts are where the comments come from. Best realization is that negative thoughts and comments pollute YOUR mental attitude the most, and then reach out and choke the life out of the relationships around you too... it gets to be that the positive, forward-looking people who are doing things with their lives steer clear of you, and you attract a lot of these negative people who are moving backwards instead. And that's the wrong recipe for any kind of success.

On the other side, while you do want to clear negative thoughts and comments, I'm always very wary of telling anyone to completely overhaul their personality. You can do this to an extent, but there's a limit... you're always just going to have some natural inclinations (dry humor, or no dry humor; sarcasm, or no sarcasm, etc.) that you're just simply going to prefer.

My suggestion would be work hard on scrubbing out negative thoughts and comments first. After that, see where you're at. I spent a lot of time learning to react the "right" way in social situations, since a lot of the small talk people engage in wasn't terribly interesting to me... but once I had that down, I focused on learning how to get past small talk as quickly as possible and into substantial, meaty topics. Then you don't have to pretend to be interested anymore, because you can get people talking about things that are actually interesting.

Chase

Kb's picture

Hey Chase. Was really frustrated with my dating life a while ago(2 months) and stumbled upon your blog. It was like a lightbulb turned on in my head.
Thanks to you I am going out a lot more and getting numbers and dates(actually went out with this girl for 3 dates and she was supposed to come over to my place for the 4th one but she flaked, but I digress).

Anyways, I want to ask you a question. I've been frequenting the pickup forums, and something I can't quite wrap around my head is "negging". What do you think about it? I feel really uncomfortable using it negs and all. Why would I want a girl to feel inferior when I can just make her feel like she's on my level?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey KB,

Very cool to hear the site's switching on some lights for you, man!

I've actually got an article up on negs already - you can see it here:

Deconstructing the PUA Neg

Basically, my impression of negs are, it feels like something some nerdy 16-year old kid would do to a girl and then go back to his friends and say, "Score, I totally negged her and she loved it!" I've played around with them, and while you can work them into game, they're pretty hard to fit naturally into anything other than "entertainer-style" game, which isn't the most effective.

In that article linked to, I talk about curious indifference, which is what I recommend as an alternative to the neg. It has the same effect on women that negs are supposed to... it's just a lot more natural and a lot more powerful, is all.

And, as a bonus... it doesn't make you sound like a nerdy 16-year old who needs to take a break from the interaction for a moment to snicker about what her face looked like after he dropped his last neg bomb on her!

Anyway, check it out. You might find it a more useful option than negging.

Cheers,
Chase

JFav's picture

After reading through this a couple of times I started to realize there is so much nonverbals I'm missing here. I just got back from watching Skyfall and after that movie I can tell EXACTLY what u meant by indirect direct because that movie has plenty of examples.

Now, what I'm curious on is guys who exude this. So, far you've said Pierce Brosnan, The Saint, any more? I'm definitely going to look thru the epic movie seduction series again too.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey J,

Indubitably, nonverbals are pretty hard to communicate over text. There's a lot of subtlety that we simply don't have good descriptive words for in English to discuss.

My own nonverbals are bit and pieces picked up from various different places. I've always like Ryan Reynolds's characters, particularly the title role in Van Wilder, though you've got to be careful not to go overboard with that one too far into cheesy (you need to keep a strong sexual undercurrent, which he does very well in that film).

Yes, definitely check out the "Epic Movie Seductions" series. Ricardus has a bunch of gems in there, many of which I haven't seen myself yet, but I know from his descriptions of them and what some of the commenters had to say on there that there's plenty of gold in those there hills.

Cheers,
Chase

Hazy's picture

Coming from a lady who has seen many a guy approach via true-indirect, Chase, you are spot on. Hide the banana is lame.com, nothing sexy, appealing, intriguing, and i will NOT likely be interested unless you are one of the finest guys i have ever laid eyes on, and i would sleep with you regardless. LOL. just saying. Good advice to the fellas Chase.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Thanks for the female perspective, Hazy! Amazing how many people are willing to trade the things they want for a little ego protection, isn't it...

Chase

D's picture

Hello Chase,
there's something about indirect rapport I'm not sure you've covered and it might be interesting. Very often and especially with girls whom you're likely to meet again - colleagues, fellow students etc. - it seems to me going true indirect could make sense (while still being sexy that is, but not saying "I'm kidding, I just thought you were cute" which is in fact direct but just delayed 3 seconds) because it allows the girl to pretend she didn't know you were seducing her. She can then tell herself (or her friends) that she's completely innocent and didn't help you or make it easy for you. On the other hand, directness and indirect direct polarize reactions so it can easily become awkward if you have to see them on a regular basis afterwards. Maybe you could add a few words on this.
Dave

OC's picture

I was thinking about the same thing,and mostly I have the same vagueness.I like to be true indirect with girls that I don't necessary want to hook up with,but I still want to get them attracted to me(collegues,fellow students,my sister's girlfriends) ,and it works.In this way I'm playfull,cocky and interesting.Also I noticed that NEGs work too ,I've tried it on some 'bitchy' ,high-confident girls from my entourage and now they view me as a man of high value,compared with the other guys from the group.
So Chase,what do you think?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Dave / OC -

Just made a post on your topic about this here:

Can You Flirt at Work Under the Radar? Why Yes You Can

OC, you'd just use the same stuff from here, but skip the part about turning that flirting into anything substantial and stick to keeping it pure flirtation.

Chase

MJones's picture

Hi Chase,

What a great article it helps out so much!

I completely understand how the coffee shop example would work, and YES it really does make me picture James Bond in that situation.

But my question is that, how could you use that approach in a nightclub, and do you have a conversation example of this?
..As the coffee shop example makes out that the guy isn't keen on the place with it being 'gauche' and everything, and how she looks like she shouldn't be there either. But in a nightclub both of the people are there cause they want to be there so that approach couldn't really work, could it??

Mez's picture

Hi Chase, I am an avid reader of your website and this is my first post.
After I get into a conversation with a girl with a situational opener, how do I know if she's
Actually interested in me or just responding really well to my questions as a courtesy?

Also how do I move things forward to ensure she doesn't end up seeing me as just a friend?
Should I slow things down right there in the middle of day while intensifying eye contact?
Should I directly state interest and ask her out on a date after qualifying her on something amazing she mentions about herself?

I am asking this especially for openers that come off with a platonic, friendly energy, although the conversation get a little more serious later on. Something like "Hey! I know you; you're in my class right?!"

Thanks for all your help.

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