Picking Up Girls and the Game of Asymmetric Returns | Girls Chase

Picking Up Girls and the Game of Asymmetric Returns

Chase Amante

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asymmetric returnsI’ve been relistening to Nassim Taleb’s wonderful book Fooled by Randomness, which is a probabalist’s dream read. And if there’s one thing that picking up girls turns you into, it’s a probabalist.

Reading it (or listening to it on audio, as I am), you see a great many parallels between stock trading and seduction. And you also come to understand why some men succeed at picking up lots of different pretty girls, and why most men never will.

In many things in life, but especially in trading and in pickup, there is what you’d call an asymmetric distribution of returns. And that means that by participating in trading for stocks or picking up girls or anything else with an asymmetric distribution, you’re opening yourself up to asymmetric returns.

But the mind does not take well naturally to asymmetric returns. It doesn’t grasp them. It isn’t built to work that way.

And the result of this is, an endless abundance of great returns for those few souls willing to go against the grain, fight the emotions that go with it, and chase down their asymmetric returns in spite of their struggling and fearful or frustrated brains... and an endless source of frustration and disappointment for the majority of souls who just go with the flow.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

Anonymous's picture

Hi Chase, just finished reading your article on fashion (very goon)

Few questions:

1. Whats the best type of hair style? Any general tips, its something I always find hard to get right. My hair most people say looks better short but I would like to find a stylish way of adding a bit of length, I just find it gives that 'fuller' sexier look.

2. Accessories. You recommend wearing only one, can you elaborate why? I usually wear a necklace and bracelet of matching colors.

3. Shirts in my opinion are the sexiest top a guy can wear (with the top 2 or 3 buttons open to show a bit of skin) - can't stand it when guys wear button up done right up, always looks really mechanical and tight looking lol - You say red is the color to go for, but I can never find a red shirt, which other colors are good, I was looking at a black one, thoughts?

4. Muscle, what is the deal on this? Is it a polarizer? I can't imagine all women find that one huge guy with freaky arms attractive, I mean it looks bizarre and try hard in my opinion. But at the same time some women will. Is there a certain amount of muscle to go for or what? Is it just about not looking skinny and pathetic?

Because I always think, surely the guy with the biggest muscles will be perceived as the most dominant, will he? Which means that iv'e got to go and compete with bodybuilder physiques in order to always be the most dominant, physical male - BUT I really don't want to get that huge. So what do I do to out compete the bigger guys. Doesn't help that im not tall either.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Glad you enjoyed the article on fashion. Hair's one of those things that's very particular to the face, and the look you're going for - most people will suggest shorter to you, because it's more "presentable" and fits better in polite society.... sort of like how most people will tell you to do things the "normal" way about everything else, too. You should try long hair regardless if you want to (and it doesn't compromise whatever you do for money) - base your pick off the difference in results you get from women, rather than what people tell you they think you ought to do. I'd suggest seeing a fashion hair stylist who knows his stuff and having him design you a sexy, edgy hairstyle.

I don't like more than one accessory because it looks garish and attention-seeking. This coming from a guy who used to load up on accessories. The underlying reason seems to be the mind finds one interesting accessory transfixing and hypnotic, but when there are more than one on a single person's body the other person can't decide where to look, and the transfixing effect is lost.

Black shirts are a good choice, provided they match everything else you're wearing. The "unified look" is really what you're going for. And, as for muscle - many women will SAY they aren't attracted to men with very large muscles, but I have consistently seen women who declare this is the case for them start drooling around muscular men. I think it's like men saying they don't care for women with an hourglass figure, or love small breasts - put them around a girl shaped like a figure 8, or with large breasts atop a tiny waist, and they start sweating regardless their professed preferences.

Chase

Royce's picture

Chase, you know when you're(probably doesn't happen to you) are talking to a girl and then suddenly you can't think of anything to talk about and it's silent-ish and you're trying constantly to think of something. Well, what do you do in situations like those where you can't think of anything at that moment and it's kind of awkward and silent?

Thanks!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Royce-

If it's happening often, you need to get better at thread-cutting and amplifying, and also get more focused on the conversation itself / less into your head. If it's an occasional thing though, just smile and be relaxed and be comfortable - if she likes you, she'll think of something else to fill the void with. The silence is your friend in these cases, and gets the girl contributing more.

Chase

Longshanks's picture

Chase,
This is a fantastic article, definitely worth bookmarking. As an intellectual guy, I enjoy that you bring theory into your posts! Why is it that most men stick with the 'safe' route of pursuing one woman at a time, making slow 'progress,' and why they are satisfied with reactions over results? I'm guilty of this too at times.

My suspicion is that many men are at a lower place than you are on Maslov's heirarchy of needs: when my self-esteem is at low tide, I want validation more than I want sex. Just getting a nice conversation with a girl feels great, it has some reward for me. This is part of the reason it's so difficult to take that risk and try to get compliance or a pull or whatnot. If all I wanted was sex, there is nothing to be gained unless I attempt a pull. But that's not true if my ego is bruised and wants some TLC: then I am actually risking something by going for the pull, despite the fact that the reward is greater.

I can see two or three ways of getting around this. (A) as you suggest, take the long view, and reason yourself out of this behavior. Your maximum reward is guaranteed to be less if you just hang around hoping for the best. Another approach is to reduce the reward you percieve in being an orbiter: (B) raise your self-esteem some other way, so that you aren't trying to fill that need, and then you really do have no excuse not to take risks; or (C) read your 'Shopping Guy' article over again, and realize that you are allowing yourself to be bought/used, and reject that.
Thanks again for the great work!
Longshanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Longshanks-

I suspect you're right - for the guy who's focused on getting into a nice conversation with a girl, for instance, this for him is enough. Someone who's higher up on Maslow doesn't really need this, though - I enjoy a good conversation with a nice girl as much as the next guy, for instance, but if I have to go a little while without really talking to any women, it doesn't bother me a bit. Possibly because I know I can go talk to more whenever I want as much as I want; I just have to devote a little time to it (and, possibly, change locations, if I in some region that doesn't have many available/desirable women to talk with).

You'll probably need to willpower your way through it when you're still starting out and seeking conversation with women above all - you'll just have to push yourself and say, "It feels good, but it's not enough." Eventually you'll reach a point where this no longer requires you to force yourself there and instead it's just a natural, automatic thing - but in the beginning, it takes some mindfulness.

Chase

David's picture

I appreciate that Chase tells this. A guy often loses a woman when actually he did nothing wrong.
For example, she had a boyfriend and they broke up. Then she met you and wanted to hook up, but during that time, the boyfriend re-appeared, they made peace and decided to get together again. Or you had perfect logistics and sex was for sure, but she was on period and you had to postpone it. And then she met someone else.

Based on my experience, I estimate following. Take a group of women you were on the 1st date with, you didn´t have sex, but there is mutual attraction and you both agree to meet again. Now it depends on many factors, however generally, I estimate that even if you try to move quickly, don´t make mistakes and have a good game, you will lose about 50% of those women. Plus, with most of those 50% there´ll never be even a second date. What do you think?

When I look back, I see that I didn´t have sex with many women for two reasons only: 1) it was actually impossible from the start, given the circumstances and 2) I didn´t (or couldn´t) go for sex before it became impossible.
As you see, it´s really nonsense to play it safe. Sometimes the risk of rejection is in fact lower than the risk that life intervenes.

David

Anonymous's picture

This is a great article however somewhat theoretical. You say to focus on the big wins but isn't that just as unpractical as telling someone to "just be confident?" Like you said, the brain works the way it works. I've recently begun to think that there might not be such thing as confidence; I have on and off days for no apparent reason, and no amount of being positive, or changing the way i think in other words, has any positive effects. I'm thinking that confidence might just be a result of whatever hormones, probably dopamine or testosterone, are in your system. So when I see your link to "the winner effect," it is very eye opening. The problem with that article, is that you say to keep putting yourself in winning situations, and I thought the point is to not be dependent on external factors and develop an unwavering self-confidence. If my confidence is suffering, must I wait for good things to happen in order for it to return?

P.S. One thing I'd like to point out is that I find the type of research in "The Winner Effect" to be off-putting. Research like this always somehow ends up being disproved at some point or another. Either that, or you've only managed to encounter or include research supporting the importance of T-levels when you could probably write the opposite as well. I used to read about nutrition and fitness before I started seeing that almost everything is debated and every claim backed by "scientific evidence" has scientific evidence invalidating it.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

I understand why it seems theoretical. When you're starting out, and you haven't experienced those big wins yet, your mind is going to tend to want to abandon small losses and run back to small wins very quickly. However, you need to be mindful of this, and persevere.

I'll give you an example. When I started going out a lot to meet women, I spent a lot of time forcing myself out to go talk to girls and get rejection after rejection after rejection. It was very emotionally draining, and I spent quite a while straddling burnout and wanting to throw my hands up and quit. Had I quit, I'd probably have gone back to chasing after "small wins" with one girl or another I was fixated on. The only reason I did not do that was because I knew that I needed to get to the point where I started racking up big wins and experiencing the "black swans of dating" - the unexpected events that changed what I knew was possible. Once you begin experiencing, at that point, you can stop having to overpower your emotions and force yourself into losing scenarios, and you begin more and more to instead view the losses as stepping stones to big successes, rather than evidence of failure like you do before you really start winning from it.

On structuring your life to be able to achieve external victories - I would love to find a method of developing unwavering self-confidence purely by thinking one's way to it, but I've yet to find it. In much of the self-help industry, there seems to be a focus on "true self-confidence" or "inner game" or "internal validation", but I've everyone I've met who talks about these things and is very confident tends to have massive field experience interacting with people and piling up external wins all along the path to his success, and everyone I've met who hasn't done this and talks about these things tends to be a bundle of nerves and utterly unconfident. The sad truth is, you could take a Buddhist monk who'd spent a lifetime learning to be "internally validated" and throw him into a loud, flashy nightclub and tell him he's got to pick up a hot girl and have sex or we're going to shoot his fellow monks, and he's going to become an emotional mess. While confidence can lead to more and higher success once you've got it, most real confidence (aside from false overconfidence) actually comes from success itself - see this article for more discussion about that: "Does Confidence = Success? Actually... No."

As for the research on testosterone... it's possible. I wouldn't rule anything out. I haven't seen research to the contrary, but I'd be perfectly open to accepting it. There does seem to be a "winner effect" that stems from taking more risks and chances in certain fields, and I've seen a lot of signs pointing to testosterone playing a big role in that (including, aside from the research on the subject, anecdotal evidence, such as that men who take steroids tend to behave more aggressively, have more one-night stands, and also be somewhat more likely to engage in not-so-good things like date rape). Maybe that's not testosterone and it's some more complicated phenomenon, and all the present research gets overturned by someone running contradictory studies or rebuttals. Maybe a good way of thinking about things is, "Here's what the evidence points to, and it feels correct to me too, but if new evidence gives me reason to reconsider, than reconsider I shall."

If it doesn't feel correct - well, you can always do your own research (into the research, or for conflicting theories) and see what you come up with!

Chase

V's picture

Hey Chase, I just wanted to ask for your advice on this situation. How do you handle a situation where someone makes a terrible rumor about you? This person started a terrible rumor about me and people believe him because they fear and respect him. I was going to fight him but I didn't because I feel I don't get anything from it because they'll still believe the rumor.

How do I deal with people making fun of the rumor, how do I defuse it and how do I stop making people believe it?

How do I get revenge on people without going to jail? I want it to be subtle but I want them to know it was me and not to fuck with me?

And I know you're good with English, do you know any websites I can look for help on it for free and can you give me some tips on essay writing?

Thank you!!!!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

V-

You have a lot of questions on this thread, so I'm going to try to just do a quick overview addressing them. Here goes…

Rumor: pretty sure we've talked about this one repeatedly, but the best you can do is be nonchalant, NOT care, and only address it once. If you get emotional, people take that as evidence that it's probably correct or hitting at some nerve you'd rather not be hit at, and you dig your own grave.

I'm not going to deal with getting revenge because… well, I'm just not going there.

On looking smooth and cool, see these articles, and apply them to the appropriate areas:

Uncertainty comes from unfamiliarity with the process and an inability to predict outcomes. Spend more time going through the process and more time analyzing how you get outcomes and the outcomes you get, and things that are uncertain now will become certain later.

On all the things about being tough and putting people in their places and whatnot... I've covered these things in countless articles on the site, including the one on street smarts, which you say you've read, V. I can't extrapolate every single point into every minor situation you're going to encounter in your life for you; I don't have the time, and even if I did, I'd have to charge you a prohibitively expensive amount of money for my services.

Go back, read the articles, and figure out how you can apply them to your own life. If you need help, grab a friend who knows you well enough, and ask him what you're doing wrong and what you can do differently. If you don't have any friends you can do this with, start watching movies and acting like actors in them who embody the traits you wish to have yourself - with time, you'll become more like them.

Chase

Gem's picture

Hey Chase,

Wanted to give an update on “older women in the gym” comment and talk a little bit about it/ask about some things I’m semi-stumped on (this is all very exciting for me though).

Before I start, a theory that I have with older women is that the ones that have been mothers for a few years vs. the ones who don’t have kids is distinguishable. I think that you can see it in the woman’s face like an older look sort of more experienced maybe wrinkled just slightly more (the girls aren’t exactly less attractive, and it’s odd… I can’t point my finger on quite exactly what it is but something in their face sort of tags them as matronly; any clarification/insight you could give here would be really appreciated because this is just off my observation).

I was gonna train legs today a bit and I was at a squat rack with two Hispanic ladies in their thirties (one a little older than the other; I guessed correctly that one of them is a mom and the other not). My fundamentals and vibe and conversational skill have been really ideally tight lately from doing many approaches and going back and tweaking small things to better gradually through the weeks.

The two ladies don’t speak a ton of English but enough that I got to flirt with them quite a bit. They know me as the sexy regular kid I guess; I teased a little bit with them and got them to let me work in with them (not a common thing because usually these older Hispanic ladies are serious and will grind through and not share).

I’ll give some of the conversation while we were in between sets (everything with like a fair amount of sexual tension/eye-fucking from them and just the right amount of that and sexy smiling/chase frames etc. from me).

Are you married? Yes. Do you have any kids? I have one he’s 4. Oh.. and your friend? No she doesn’t have kids. Pause.. so you can’t be my girlfriend then?

(I’ve been playing with this lately in my approaches I read Zan’s book recently -it’s one of the best books I’ve ever read his life’s work it really shows, I’d recommend it to you Chase really beautiful, insightful, comprehensive book- Zan will just be playful with girls and really simplified; he’ll ask a girl “are you my girl? Why aren’t you my girl; be my lover, are you my lover?; run away with me” etc.

No (smiling), she’s single though. She should be my girlfriend (pointing to her friend).. tell her, I’ll run away with her ;) .. the other girl was working out with headphones in her ears at that time.

I would have asked the other girl then and bantered like this and tried to get something out of it, but it just happened (not because of any hesitation or anything on my part) that they were going to another machine then so didn’t get to talk any more to the other girl.

They waved bye to me and the single girl waved sexily bye looking so smitten, she loves me Chase!! The mom sees me as sexy but she’s committed –that demeanor that girl’s who are committed have where oh he’s sexy, I attracted, but I have my man-
My question is that with older women in their 30’s they’re supposed to be in mate lockdown mode right? And the two girls are always together I’m not sure how I could make it work out. If my girl here was by herself I could get her number go out, move her, and close; but because she’s with her friend wouldn’t the friend kind of stop her from moving forward with a younger guy (funny she said she thought I could be sixteen at first while the mom thought 25 and that I look pretty old)? And if she was attracted maybe seeing how her friend (the mom) would react would stop her from giving me a number or agreeing to be my lover/sweetheart/novia? ;)

My question I guess then here is how could I move things forward working towards results with the girl, make it fine/look permissible with the friend, and make sure that this doesn’t end up being just another set of girls at the gym I flirt with (that are taken usually).

I want a cougar so bad Chase hope you could potentially help here. And my approaches at the gym have been going really well, have been doing many (all while subtle and calibrated and all that). Funny the types of situations girls you run into, another older really attractive Hispanic lady I met today told me she couldn’t be my girlfriend because she’s married and has a son that’s 21! HAHA

-Gem

Gem's picture

I was thinking about this a little more and felt I wanted to add something.

In my hometown it's predominantly hispanic (where the gym I go to is too; lots of pretty hispanic girls always been around for me since childhood on).

And with the older hipsanic ladies that do lift, they do it very seriously like I do or some of my bodybuilder friends do (train hard, eat healthy, drink protein etc.).

I think from talking with them, many of these girls had good bodies when they were younger (curvy latina girl bodies) and want to keep that; but I'm curious to as to what deeper motivation older women may have to lift hard bodybuilding style (opposed to me or friends of mine who are young guys in an anabolic state looking to build a solid foundation of strength and muscle).

It's interesting maybe you could enlighten me further here

thanks again,

-Gem

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Gem-

Yeah, most women's looks don't really start falling off a cliff until 35 or so, unless they've had hard lives or done lots of partying / tanning / drinking / smoking… drugs is another one that can take even a really young girl and age her 20 years in the space of 7 or 8 months if she hits them hard enough, and the aging is more or less permanent. Some women last longer than 35, but most women see a steep looks drop off between 35 and 40… she can look early 20s at 35, and then by 40 she looks 40.

Bodies get harder to maintain as you get older, mainly because most people become a lot less active - they don't go out as much, skin gets saggy, fat accumulates in stranger places. The specific motivation for a woman going out and lifting bodybuilder-style in her 30s or 40s depends, but many of them are looking to expand their diet of sexy men, consciously or not (lots of them have husbands who are never home, or not very exciting to them, and since they're not going to parties / bars / nightclubs anymore, they're going to go strut their stuff in front of guys in the gym, and fantasize about getting picked up - whether they ever actually go through with it or not).

Thanks for the recommendation on Zan's book. I've always really liked his style. His approach to relationships contributed a lot to mine early on.

Gym game is usually best treated as just another kind of social circle game - as you see the gym girls more, flirt with them more. The next time you see them, I'd try to either get into conversation with the single one, or ask the married one if it's okay if I talk to the single one if the single one is lost in her own world again. If you win the married one over, she can be a path toward talking to the single one; if the married one already likes you a lot, and you talk to the single one and charm her a bit, you can ask her for her phone number, and include the married one: "Would you like to get food with me sometime? [to the married girl] Is it all right if I ask her for her phone number? Do you think she and I should go out sometime?" The married girl will laugh and say yes, and if she's the leader (which it sounds like she is), the single one will probably assent to it, and then you're golden.

Chase

Gem's picture

“many of them are looking to expand their diet of sexy men, consciously or not (lots of them have husbands who are never home, or not very exciting to them, and since they're not going to parties / bars / nightclubs anymore, they're going to go strut their stuff in front of guys in the gym, and fantasize about getting picked up - whether they ever actually go through with it or not)”

That’s brilliant Chase, I didn’t even consider that; yeah there are a few younger girls but you see the older women in their 30’s more and man they get a lot of validation from other horny guys (plenty of younger and older orbiters that try to work in or start casual conversation etc.). Could possibly make a good deep dive topic for me.

"Gym game is usually best treated as just another kind of social circle game - as you see the gym girls more, flirt with them more. The next time you see them, I'd try to either get into conversation with the single one, or ask the married one if it's okay if I talk to the single one if the single one is lost in her own world again. If you win the married one over, she can be a path toward talking to the single one; if the married one already likes you a lot, and you talk to the single one and charm her a bit, you can ask her for her phone number, and include the married one: "Would you like to get food with me sometime? [to the married girl] Is it all right if I ask her for her phone number? Do you think she and I should go out sometime?" The married girl will laugh and say yes, and if she's the leader (which it sounds like she is), the single one will probably assent to it, and then you're golden."

This is damn helpful, I’ll put this advice to work. The gym seems to have become sort of a social circle from me since high school (was fairly detached from social circle in high school and didn’t start one in college, though may choose to expand social life later on in college). I get social proof because all the regular guys and many of the girls are cool with me (but I’ve suspected that this doesn’t help game that much maybe very slightly at best; your most recent article confirmed this actually ha).

The married one is the leader yes, she’s some 4-8 years older than the younger one I’d guess (younger one’s the hotter one, could still be in her 20’s looks wise but I’d guess 30 or early 30).

A question here I have is that it would be better here for me to be ambiguous about or lie about my age right?

I think I may have mentioned to them I’m 19 (said under 25 I think) but I could sort of tiptoe around this I think right (“no I’m very old actually, see look at my beard, here you wanna feel it ;)”)?

With the advice you gave, it sort of reminds me of something sort of wonderful/amazing that I’ve been beginning to see little glimpses of (something that Zan talks about a fair bit, and I’ve seen with my natural buddy quite a bit too) and that’s when the girls like you they share other girls with you. And they bring other girls to you as well, and they tell their girlfriends about you etc. It’s an interesting dynamic (and I see it more with the older girls than the ones that are my age and maybe a bit shyer/more nervous/less confident) and one I’ll implement here.

Thanks, will keep you updated!

-Gem

Balla's picture

Chase, I know I said I was on a break but im so addicted to reading your articles. These questions aren't even about getting girls it has to do with the articles I just read. Which were the one about a girls past and the one you recently put up about settling down.

What I want to ask is:

1. I get asked these 3 questions and I feel you have a better, smoother answer than me.
What I get asked is,
A. When did you lose your virginity?
B. How many partners have you had?
C. How many girlfriends?

I answer
A. The age I lost it
B. none of your business
C. I don't do relationships

I really don't like answering those questions, how should I answer these to make them sound cool or smooth?

On the article about settling down, I was thinking about when I turn into a father and I have to be very stern and tough for my family.

I want some tips on standing up for myself better, defending myself better and giving off a strong stern vibe.

I know I have to experience a lot of things, but I want to know how can I change my mindset and what to change it to, when getting my toughness up. I know I can't go around fighting people, what im asking is what can I think to myself to make me feel stronger, have courage and take on challenges?

And how can I build a strong rep?

Thanks chase, ill try not reading your articles so I can go on my hiatus, but like a habit I have to slowly get off of it, even if it's good.

Peace

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Balla-

When you get difficult questions, laugh and bounce them back at the question answer to find out what she thinks: e.g., if she asks you how many partners you've had, ask her how many she thinks. She'll then tell you right around the range she thinks you should be at, and you can tell her she's close and give her a number that's a handful above that (if you tell her too much lower or higher than that number, she'll freak out - give her something that matches her expectations, instead). Same deal for when you first had sex; for relationships, read this: "“Do You Have a Girlfriend?” Here’s How to Answer This."

As for a tougher mindset, stop trying to think your way to it. You will never get there. It's like trying to think your way to a billion dollars. Whatever you want - whether it's a billion dollars, a beautiful girlfriend, or a specific mindset - the only way you get it is by going out and taking steps that bring you closer toward getting it. Tell your thoughts, worries, and fears to go screw themselves, and busy yourself racking up new experiences.

And if you want a strong rep - do strong things, have a strong frame, and make sure other people see you doing it, or hear about it later, preferably from others besides yourself.

Chase

V's picture

I just read your reply to my other comments chase, i don't see those people who have made those comments, im just asking so I know what not to do. What ill ask is this, what would make you yourself think a person is weird, slow, and have a bad vibe and what makes you think of the opposite of those three?

It's kind of out of topic, but I want to be smooth and cool in all my situations in life. How can I look cool playing basketball? Girls are at my games and I get emotional, I guess it's not a bad thing since it's more about the game than them, but how do I show that boss vibe when im playing, should I take control of offense more?

Last question, how do I deal with uncertainty? I'm uncertain in everything I do and I've been practicing a lot in a few things. I just get so uncertain. It can be a sport I've been practicing for years and still be very uncertain, even with girls and talking to strangers too. I've been doing all these things for years and I still get uncertain. Im pretty much uncertain in everything I do in my life, what can I do to know im the man and I've been doing such and such for years?

Thank you chase!!!!!

ballastrata's picture

Hi Chase,

Maybe it'll surprise you but I'm a woman reading your articles as an invaluable source of information. Yeah, I'm interested in both men and women. Men - purely sexually, with women I connect more on an emotional level. As much as flings with men sound cool, I get into long relationships with women. Naturally, you may want to ask what the hell I'm doing on the site but believe me or not, in case of women on women interaction one tends to be more dominant and the dynamics and rules are more or less very similar. Interacting with a guy, I like letting them lead, with women - I need to employ more game.

In the oceans of self-improvement websites which are flooding the Internet today, yours really stands out to me. I don't know where you got all this knowledge about life and women, was it a course, book or experience but you really provide a healthy chunk of psychology based and incredibly practical insight into every day life situations.

Axe to the point. Growing up and living in a terribly catholic country in the south of Europe has never been easy for people like me. I love spending hours talking about cosmetics and girly stuff but I also love spending all afternoons playing football. I've always been considered different. Thus, I have a couple of things on my interactions with girls I'd like to share with you Chase, and would be cool if you could give me your constructive (if possible) view on them.

First, I have a huge problem with abundance mentality. For obvious reasons, day game and cold approach are not options for me. Unfortunately (!) I have to be sticking to online dating and I still haven't worked out ways to do it efficiently and effectively timewise. Even living in the capital city corners me with only two main websites for bisexual people. One of them is based on ads, the other on traditional profiles with photos. The problem with the first one is that you simply start texting with someone without having seen her :). I'm a woman who takes care of herself, for me appearance is vital. In 90 % of cases always turns out at the end of the day that I've been wasting my time on texting with a fat, manish and generally neglected woman. Please believe me, meeting a classy, slim and pretty well kept lesbian or bi is oftentimes mission hardly possible. I've been into relationships before with very attractive girls, I still regret they all ended up because I was not ready to commit. Anyways, now I'm in my early thirties and I feel it's getting harder to meet a high quality woman in my world. When I write to them I try to convince them in the beginning that a fast meet up or an exchange of photos is a good idea but they either flake at this point or simply try to hold out texting forever, or get offended and shoot me texts about how superficial and hollow I must be. It frustrates the hell out of me. How can I make myslef more effective on such websites without being perceived as somebody really into looks only. I can talk to her about whole bunch of stuff but I need to see her first.

I cancelled my profile on the website with photos due to the fact I ususally got a lot of interests from a lot younger girls whom I'm not interested in. Age difference is not an option Im looking for someone around my age category. Those at my age however, set up their dating profiles like 10 years back... The same faces all the time. It looks like a photo game. They ranked my photos highly but when texted with a suggestion about grabing some coffee and kicking back they flaked. What is the point of being there for them? Personally, I'm a very busy person and my schedule is tight I hardly find time to check my mailbox every day and being on different sites purely for fun or just for checking things out and playing and rating people's profiles aimlessly would be the last thing I could think of occupying myself with.

I don't know much about clubs and cafes in this scope, I gave up in the past after visiting two. They were sleazy, dirty with a lot of under age girls and the cigarette smoke made it impossible to see their faces clearly (or maybe that was the point). Such as shame because I'd consider this way the most powerful and time saving approach but I simply need something more classy.

In cases I succeed in getting a woman out on a meeting it's usually the first time we can cast eyes on each other. So last time I went on a date, we hit a cafe to get some food. I flirted with her at first but after half an hour I decided she was't that attractive for me after all. She was ok but not to the point I really wanted to get her into my bed. However she had a different opinion. I actually spent another hour trying to get out of the meeting. She come on to me heavily as she sensed I was toning down flirting and so insisted on taking me home I actually didn't know how to run away with actually running away. What would be a good way of handling such situations?

And the last thing concerns telling other people what you do and what you are. I've always been a huge fan of not telling and not lying either. Just keep quiet. What I've noticed though is that it seems to work the other way round sometimes. Poeple I work with or people I know but I'm not friends with get "fascinated" and extremely curious about me and my life. I feel it more and more. I shoot down all questions of why I'm not married but they just get even more interested and find other ways of getting the pieces together. It also happens - rarely but still - some girls act as if they were hitting on me. I believe not because they're really interested but just to check out if it's possible to get me or not. I'm a freelancer and as much as I don't like the corporate world I have to pop into different companies for a couple of hours every day. I'm such a huge mystery to all the people and I feel like they are testing me even though we've have been cooperating together for more than 5 years.

Ups, Chase sorry for this lenghty comment and I'd really appreciate your advice. Cheers

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Ballastrata-

I'm afraid I won't be much help on women your age not responding to you on online dating - I prefer women in their early- to mid-20s myself, although I will say that women as they get older get much "gamier" and want and demand more nuance and less directness from you generally. Bluntness works best with younger women; with older women, you need subtlety, poise, and coolness.

Many of the women I've heard of who picked up other women did so in nightclubs; there are plenty of clubs that cater to older crowds, though you do have to look for them a bit and do some exploring. However, they may not have the kinds of women you're looking to have a long-term relationship with in them. I don't know what dating sites you use, but some are much more lesbian-centric than others; one I used to have good luck with back in the day was Mate1.com, and while it was very fruitful for me, I was aware at the time that it was also predominantly a lesbian hookup site. That said, it's been half a decade since I was on there, and it's probably defunct by now. OkCupid has a big reputation as a lesbian / bisexual site, but you're probably already on there; for others, you might have to do some searching around. Very often you will find that smaller, harder-to-find sites are much more productive than larger ones. Private social networks can also be good; if you can find and join these, they often get used predominantly as hookup sites (I much prefer these to traditional online dating), and you will notice that there's a much higher trust factor on them than public social media sites, like Facebook, Twitter, etc.

As for wiggling out of scenarios where you got the girl excited, and later reconsidered, and now she's raring to go and chasing you down hard… yes, I've been there. Can be awkward if you don't know what to do. The best call here is usually just starting to get ready to leave while you wrap up the conversation - start putting your coat on, grab your handbag, ask for the check, stand up, etc. When it's time to go, just tell her you've got to get going - if she invites you home, just laugh and say you wish you could, you'll just have to do it another time. Then get out of there.

As for why you aren't married, I'd just stick to saying something like well as soon as the world starts coughing up acceptable partners for that role, I will be! As for the girls who *might* be hitting on you, if you find them attractive, I might say something like, "Oh, men are just too disappointing. I need a break from them for, like, ever," and laugh, and see how she responds. If she agrees, and seems like she's flirting harder, that might be a sign to make more allusions, and maybe meet up with her for coffee to "talk about this sometime" (and feel her out a bit more still).

Chase

V's picture

Ok, I read all of your articles about dealing with street situations and social. I have a few questions about trying too hard. People always ask why im smiling and I never realize im doing it, but I know that it's a form of weakness and I want that eliminated. I don't want anything soft about me, but I also don't want to scare chicks away. And what I mean by tough is just people taking you seriously and know you're not a punk, im not trying to be a hoodlum.

Im dead serious about being tough, im not trying to start with anyone im just making sure they don't start with me and if they do I'll show them its not a bluff.

Im mostly worried about getting in trouble, it's not hard for me to punch someone out whos trying to mess with me it's just I don't need to get in trouble.

1. How can I stop smiling without it trying to look like im trying hard to be tough?

2. How do I put someone in there place without getting in trouble for it? Ex. If they try to say im bluffing.

3. How do I erase all softness about me?

4. People in my past that i haven't seen, know im an easy going guy, im not trying to be something im not im just letting them know I mean business. How can I change their past thoughts about me without fighting them or ending up in trouble? I want them to get that feeling like "Damn you changed" without having to do anything serious.

5. Chase how do you yourself know if a guy is really tough and not being a try hard by just looking at him?

6. How can I not be scared when grilling somebody when they're grilling me and do I say anything to them or just keep grilling?

Thank you!!!!

V's picture

Chase I try not to make so many comments but I always remember something I forgot to add to my previous comment. From now on when I ask a question im going to save it then wait an hour to see if I remember anything, that way I don't leave 3 comments when I could leave one.

How can I stop thinking everyone can fight better than me or worrying about what they can do to me. I know that its human nature to have these symptoms of fight or flight, but I don't want to worry about these peoples threats. Why should I worry if they aren't? And I know they're not because they wouldn't start with me. I remember when I told my friend about this guy i had beef with said he had family members in gangs and how they would beat anybody up, and my friend said " no one's scared of the gangs in his family". I knew he wasn't just saying that to sound tough, I knew he meant it and really didn't worry about it, how can I develop that mentality?

1. how can I calm myself down and not go crazy with nervousness when someone threatens me or dealing with confrontation.

2.How can I depend on myself for safety and not run to anyone?

3. I know I have to go through situations to deal with them better but how do I act strong during all my confrontations and push past the fear?

4. How can I stop thinking everybody is invincible and I can't beat them? I feel its a losing attempt to fight this person and I'll look bad.

5. How can I develop that easy going attitude of my friend ? Always down to fight.

6. I remember you said you use to get picked on but then you started fighting everyone back, what went through your mind and where did you develop the courage?

7. I have to stop asking you these questions so much, I trust everything you say so I keep asking because I feel you have all the correct answers, but i can't be a man asking questions so crazy, I want to be in your position where people ask me for advice and I can help them. I feel that if I try to think for myself with certain problems ill pick the wrong choice, so I ask. I want to know how can I get the confidence to come up with my own solutions like you do?

I will calm down with the question

Thank you

Wolf's picture

I just read your article on small social circle. How do you get the friend of the girl who rejected you, isn't that extremely bad pre selection? what if you don't know her friend at all personally and she isn't a part of the circle? How do you get her?

I have my own little small circle story that I wonder if I can close. Pretty much if I persisted I would of fucked her but, I was being too nonchalant and thought maybe next time. So we had an argument and I made her not want to be one on one again. During are interactions at work we would play games with each other. I kind of did what you say in here but to a lesser degree. I would ignore her and it never failed, she would come chasing hard but never got her alone.

I always made her angry by saying certain things and happy when i would talk to her, she was showing her emotions all right. She wanted to talk to me point blank and I didn't add any value to her. We would set up dates but she always flaked, her reasons were she was mad at what I said, she had someone she was seeing and he'd find out, she didn't want anyone at are job to know, and then she said she doesn't see me in that way, which is bullshit because she was on my dick and getting emotionally invested for something and I only proposed to hang out nothing more.

We had a fallen out, she quit, told someone she rejected me, then I saw her years later and I guess she recognized me because she was starring at me and I didn't know who it was at first til she smiled and waved. That was the last time I saw her. I smiled and didnt go over to her. I don't have any contact with her and im not on any social media websites. The only way we would hang out is if she insisted we hang out. I feel like it would be a waste of time, but if I can smash im down. should I and how do you think this girl really feels about me?

Ciao

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Wolf-

Sounds like the situation is pretty screwed, and you don't know how to contact her anyway. I'd leave it alone, and go find new girls instead - you'll find plenty if you make it a priority to go out and socialize with new women.

Chase

Author
Chase Amante's picture

To everyone who commented on this article with words of praise whom I did not respond to personally - thanks for the kind words, and I'm very pleased you enjoyed this one. Article writing is a hit-and-miss thing itself - a game of asymmetric distributions and returns in its own right - so it's fun when you're cranking these out to get an unexpected hit.

Thrilled if this helps your mindset shift in a positive and productive way - and here's hoping you get many unexpected returns for your efforts.

Chase

The Disciple's picture

Chase. this is anothere great article, one of many. A few months ago, when I first discovered this blog of yours, I went on a reading spree and read at least 8 of your articles - How to have sex with girls on a regular basis, how to look sexy, how to text girls, direct/situational opener and several others - and it has dramatically changed my sex life. As a freshman in college, with no car and not so much money, I only had sex with one girl at that point in February, but since I've applied the advice in your posts I've been intimate with at least a dozen women. I even slept with my trigonometry professor who is married and has a son. However I have been rejected many more times than I've hooked up (but hey, asymmetry right? ) I just want to say thank you for divulging all of your experiences and advice because it has truly been life-changing for me.

Dogan's picture

Sorry Chase. it has been a long time since you since you answered my comment(question). But I have just seen your comment after reading againn your 2014 top posts. I feel lucky of writing on this great discussion boards and reply to you.
Back to the subject. The payment is not high. I controlled again your payment choises and it was not complicated. I think it should be added an option that show us our payment repeat or don't repeat the next month or year. on the other hand your a life time payment plan is more attracting.

Cheers.

Disciple's picture

The actual reason men don’t flirt with a lot of women, evidenced by how different they act online when anonymous, is the fear of social repercussions outside of the person they’re interested in. They don’t want to be the creepy guy, which is the real reason, not the sting of rejection. 

My question is, how to negate that. I had an easy time flirting in Europe, where people are less on edge because assaults are easier to report. And I’ve gotten dates from strangers I’ve talked to for five minutes in an elevator. But how do you negate that in a small area? I don’t want off days hurting me.

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