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This is Part 3 of my series on why relationships fall
apart. Part 1
was on game-personality disconnect,
when the approach you use for getting her clashes unfavorably with the
version of ‘you’ she gets to know while actually dating you. Part 2 was
on the problem of your long-term value to her being unclear,
when she doesn’t see the value there from you she wants or expects in a
long-term mate.
Our topic for today is stability issues; basically, when she feels insecure in the relationship.
If you’re a veteran of long-term relationships (or even had your fair share of short-term ones with as-yet hopeful girls), you’ve no doubt heard the following common refrains:
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“What are we?”
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“Where is this going?”
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“I need to know this is headed somewhere.”
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“I just need to know I’m not wasting my time.”
What a woman’s telling you when she utters one of these phrases is that the stability of the relationship is lacking, and she needs you to calm the rocky seas.
These are just the surface of the ocean, however. There’s a whole body of seawater and a thousand leagues beneath it you must grasp if you’re to prevent stability issues capsizing your relationship.
Comments
Spot On
It's incredible how good the timing of the articles can be Chase :)
Yesterday after having dinner with my gf for Valentines Day at my place, I was checking my FB messages. She saw that one of my female neighbors had messages me saying "Are you busy?" (the reason was to ask a favor about going to the pharmacy, as she has a broken leg)
When my gf saw that, she got up and started becoming increasingly anxious and I thought she was having a medical problem when she said she was nauseous. You know the drill, she asks me not get angry and I pull the issue out of her mouth with pliers. After she explains why she got so jealous and wanted an explanation she said "If you two are doing something I'm going to go to her to break her other leg!" This pissed me off and I told her that she was going over the line and that there was nothing to accuse me of cheating, because I'd explained to her what it was about.
Then she breaks down and talks about how "she brought you desert that one time" (friendly neighbor gesture, an Indian dude brought me food too) and that in her head it all connects together like that.
At the end she admitted that she was feeling very insecure and that she didn't want to feel like this but she didn't know how.
I've pretty much followed the prevention of excitement overload first 90 days, and all the rest of tips that you gave. As a matter of fact I might be still making her "chase" a bit too much after 1 year. So I understand that she wants stability from me. She's a smart girl, so she even says that "at the moment I can deal with this, but in 2 years or so if you're not where I'm standing (that is, planning to move in together, buy a house etc.) then I can no longer stay in this relationship" so she's got a good sense of all of this.
What do you suggest Chase? Other than increasing progress, of which I have a large pool to select from, relatively speaking. Drama and "the need for progress and craving more security" on her part is starting to take a toll on me, and I really don't enjoy it. You've summarized it damn perfectly by how we men don't want anyone "rocking the boat". If I'm not mistaken Franco mentioned that you let girls go when they feel like they can't "get you" and when they want someone "serious" to settle down with, is that so?
Your Terms (or Bust)
Anonymoose-
That’s just normal jealousy, I wouldn’t worry about it. Girls will flip out over things like that, accuse you of cheating; you stay calm, laugh it off, tell her she’s being ridiculous, and she’ll calm down. Just basic drama stress testing of the relationship. She’ll make it seem like a major crisis for a few hours to a few days, and then forget about it completely.
It’s your call whether you want to keep a girl around or not. If it’s at the point where the drama isn’t worth the girl, then perhaps you ought to let her go – that’s actually part of the role drama provides: get the man to make up his mind on what he wants with her. Commit if he’s serious, end it now before he wastes more of her time if he’s not.
It sounds like you’re getting weighed down with drama, so I’d advise you to start shifting things more in your terms while giving her the chance to exit. Such as: “Look, I can’t do this anymore with all the drama. I’m not checking my phone in front of you anymore and you’re not allowed to look at my phone, okay?” She’ll either accept and submit or freak out and leave, depending on how secure or not she feels about the relationship. Then each time there’s another blow up, use the opportunity to shift things more in your terms. That way you either get the relationship you want, or it’s over.
Chase
NR Day
Hi Chase,
It's the day after valentines day!
Thanks for that article on it.
I realize your article was based on bar setting, but how would daygame playout on this day?
What's different on this day compared to other days in game and process wise?
One probably is "no number grab" but aim for sameday lay I guess.
Second is the opener is "Happy day after valentines day" but daygame usually starts with direct opener. If cynical women are opened with direct, maybe not a great start (I'll shoot this guy down to vent my anger!) And how do we invite ourselves to their home on this day?
Thanks,
Lawliet
Day After Valentine's Day Game
Lawliet-
I believe you mean this article?:
How to Pick Up Girls on Valentine's Day
Sure, rules still apply. She still feels the same way about Valentine’s if you meet her on the street as in the bar. However, you don’t have as much self-selection in the street – every girl is on the street the day after Valentine’s, both women who are sad/defiant about the holiday, and women who just spent a wonderful holiday with their boyfriends. There are few happy girlfriends hitting up the bars and clubs the day after, though.
You can absolutely use “Happy day after Valentine’s Day” as a day game opener. The only place it might be a little awkward is if you’re doing street stops. If she doesn’t respond super well, just use another opener after it, like a compliment or something situationally relevant.
As for inviting yourselves to a girl’s home (on ANY day), see these two articles:
Chase
"You talking to your ex
"You talking to your ex-girlfriend is way, way worse than you hooking up with some random chick, particularly if you keep that hookup ambiguous and she can laugh and wag her finger at you and say “Oh, you!”"
Chase, articles (and lines) like this are where your true mastery come through. I myself have only even attempted a couple long-term relationships, and trust me when I say you've got a handle on things that I've never even encountered. I feel that I'm moving away from just casual sex and closer to that phase of my life where I really want to try another relationship, so I appreciate having this "map of the territory" ahead of time.
Does this series only apply to monogamous LTRs, you think, or would you say there are similar issues to what a guy experiences who's only used to being in open-MLTR type of situations?
Cheers
mLTR
Drexel-
Yes, the details from this series apply as much to mLTR as LTR.
With mLTR however, even if she knows and makes her peace with you not being exclusive to her, she still expects to occupy a certain place in the hierarchy, and her expectations for the relationship project out from that.
Either she is your primary, and occupies the “queen” role, and she gets the lion’s share of your time, attention, and devotion, or she’s the #2 and can bide her time, but you’d better not be promoting other girls over her, or she’s lower down in the hierarchy and elbowing her way up to try and take the #2 spot or leapfrog into #1. Even if you don’t tell a woman exactly where she ranks, once she’s been with you a little while she can figure it out, and her expectations adjust to match her rank (or if she is not happy with her rank she simply gets out and dates someone else).
The rank and hierarchy aspects make mLTR relationship cloudier. The #1 and #2 roles are usually the only ones that are consistently fairly stable, which is why it’s common to see men who have a wife and a mistress, but not too many men with a wife and three mistresses. A guy may hook up with additional women and have shorter term #3, #4, etc. girls, but those roles feel unstable and undervalued, so the women typically rotate out of them quickly and find a man who can devote more time, affection, and resources to them.
A quirk of mLTR is that the #1 ranking girl expects the majority of your time, resources, and devotion, while the #2 ranking girl expects the majority of your affection. If you start giving most your affection to the #1 ranking girl, you’re moving toward full-on monogamy; if you start giving too much time/resources/precedence to the #2 ranking girl, the relationship becomes too much of a sham for the #1 ranking girl and she exits (with the #2 ranking girl now sensing that she is moving into the #1 role, and usually hoping/angling for monogamy).
So… what constitutes “stability” for a girl in mLTR depends on her rank. For your #1 girl, it’s time, resources, and devotion/precedence. For your #2 girl, it’s affection. I don’t know there’s a good way to keep #3 and below girls stable for long, outside of an army of loyal eunuchs fending off horny males ;)
Chase
If you didn't engineer right from the start, what do you do?
For a guy that reads your material, it is all money.
I've been trying to implement it all.
However, I am running into one big problem . I am in the middle of a relationship, one where I started with the expectations high from the beginning. I took her out on dates, took her to my favorite spots, talked about all my secrets, gave nice gifts.
I did everything you said not to do. This was before I discovered your website.
So what can I do to have my peace while giving her the progress she seeks and the novelty? I've already set the expectations too high from the get go and anything that I do now will be like a regression.
I am in the middle of a relationship and I started things a little too high with
Make a Baby. This one always
Make a Baby. This one always works. ;-)
Or run.
Toning It Down After the Fact
Thad-
There’s no *perfect* solution here, unfortunately.
You can have a heart-to-heart with her, tell you why you’re toning it down, or whatnot, but even if she’s logically on board with it, emotionally she’s still going to feel like it’s gone from wonderful to less wonderful.
Even if you do “make a baby”, like fun suggests(!), that doesn’t quite get you out of it either… she’ll be there in the nursery, taking care of the kid, and reminiscing on what it used to be like when things were new and the two of you went to all those secret places and you lavished her with gifts and took her out to nice spots.
It’s not hopeless, however. One thing you can do is just stretch it out more, without totally abandoning everything. e.g., still take her out to special spots / adventures / day trips, just do it once every couple of months instead of every weekend. Take her to a nice restaurant once or twice a month instead of once a week. Buy her a little, sweet gift once every 3 months or so, somewhat at random. That way she can say, “It’s not as crazy as when it was new, but Thad still loves me.”
Chase
Travel
Hello Chase,
Thank you for your reply to my previous comment and follow up article on relationships. My question this time concerns travelling, something i have meant to ask about for a long time. Do you believe there is any chance that for some reasons there is bad energy around certain activities in our lives. On one hand, i love travelling, visiting new places, coming across different cultures etc, on the other i always seem to have bad experiences with people while doing so. The conflicts are of very different natures and even seldom they are connected with travelling itself. When i look back on my life, the sad thing is that i literally lost touch with everyone I had ever travelled with. They were both girlfriends and friends. Last year I had a girlfriend from another country, first couple of times she visited me and things were more than great, when i came over to see her, after this visit, things changed significantly. It was the first time she said she wasnt sure if she wanted to be with me. Which was a huge shift. I also travelled to Norway last year for training purposes and the guy who held the training did not like me. It was a film industry and it looked to him like i was not involved in the project and aloof, wheras even other people told me later that this project was mostly created by me, which was true. Anyway, on one evening, they all popped out for beer and i was sitting alone in a hotel room. I am normally considered a funny and confident person so it is even weird to think such things happen to me when i travel. The same story was with my last girlfriend, things were great when we were in my country but there was always something wrong when we were in hers or travelled different destinations together. Even when I had a great time with somebody while travelling, they somewhat miraclously drifted apart soon after for different not this travel related reasons. My first experience abroad was rather positive, English people liked me because they said my English was good but I had a massive argument with my friend there as he started acting out weirdly and we stopped being friends soon after we came back. Then I visited my cousin in England and I had a conflict with her husband who turned aggressive to me one day for no reason. Our relations completely changed since then . Then, many years ago I went to work to England and it was the worst time in my life. As luck would have it last year I met a girl from England, and things were great basically the moment I started seeing her there... I know it sounds crazy, I usually laugh myself when people talk about bad energy but my experience is so ridiculous that it really makes me feel this way. I know I brought up a lot of threads here but I wonder what you may think about it. I need to travel, it broadens my horizons, improves my language etc. but on the other hand before I go somewhere now, I think what is going to be wrong this time...
Rubbing People Wrong While Traveling Abroad
Straw-
What a bizarre series of incidents. I can’t say I’ve heard anything like it.
I wouldn’t count out random variation. Sometimes you’re going to have a good time traveling; sometimes something bad will happen. If enough people travel, sooner or later there’s going to be a guy who has something awful happen on 10 straight trips. You may just be among that (un)lucky set of people who simply by pure randomness have a series of unfortunate travel experiences.
However, it’s more likely you’re doing something to cause these events somehow. There’s a common theme in you stories:
• Went to her country, she didn’t like you
• Went to Norway, the other folks didn’t like you
• Had fun with people, but they didn’t want to stay in touch with you
• Went to England, cousin’s husband didn’t like you
It sounds like you’re fine in your home country, but in other countries you’re rubbing people the wrong way. It could be you’re paranoid or expecting something bad so you act rigid or weird or aloof while abroad, and other people find it off-putting, or maybe you have some traits or behaviors that are perfectly normal in your home country but considered offensive elsewhere.
If I was you, I’d sit down and see if I could figure out why people in other countries don’t like you… and if you’re not sure, maybe start asking your international friends for answers. Or ask the English girl: hey, is there anything about me you think would rub locals the wrong way if I carried it with me to England? If she can’t come up with anything, tell her about your experiences and see if she can help you nail it down.
Chase
Re: Last Call and Valentines Day Texts
Hey Chase,
Thanks for your comments, and very funny bro :).
I did give it a spin, and as you (I believe) suspected, no replies.
Or a warm reply on Valentines day, only for her to say, "Oh I actually have a boyfriend" a few days later. I laughed as I saw her smiley face at the end of this text!
Guess my theory went down the drain.
Funny though, I went out for that week (Feb 15 was heavy rain...I let myself stay inside. I still regret it!)
The effects are somehow still there. But most girls I encountered during day game were sad ones or awoken "Ah right it was valentines day".
I saw one who started to get teary...either that or she was napping the whole bus trip.
Re: Last call
I took the move before you commented and did a throw ball into her court.
Sorta wanted to get these girls off my mind for new ones!
So I dropped them a whatsapp voice recording instead, after modifying your example into more assuming she's busy without asking, and ending it without asking in the end.
And hey, it worked for one.
She felt "Oops, I did this" I think.
Texted me the next day (first outreach after complete silence for past 3 text and call)
"I'm sorry I'm busy with x this week so can't make it"
Keeping it "not a big deal" frame as from my whatsapp recording, I simply texted back, "No worries, When you're free, let me know"
Hope my process and rationale is right this time.
Now I wonder if scarcity can come into play.
It feels that reply is "timeless", and suggesting I'll wait for her whenever.
But if I add a "for a little while" at the end, it sound like I'm smarting or incongruent with the throw the ball into her court feel.
If somehow we can couple scarcity into our throw in the ball, or parting shots without coming across as smarting, but also welcoming, just "for a limited time" as in sales, I bet that'll up our hit rate drastically!
Re: Small talk and socializing
So I took up your suggestion with small talk for now instead of deep diving.
But I found my small talk seems to run out of material pretty fast.
Coolest movie? "Ah I like Avengers" Ok...now what haha
How do you keep your small talk loaded with info?
On the side, I noticed people transition topics very naturally. It feels smooth, almost without knowing it. I was waiting for my turn to speak about that topic and whoops, it's already gone.
I'll keep watching for these in group chats.
Lawliet
Brush Offs and Small Talk
Lawliet-
Well, there’s always next year! You’re still young… plenty of Valentine’s Days to go.
When a girl gives you a brush off line, like “Sorry, I’m busy” without showing any consideration or attempting to reschedule, avoid being overly nice with a “No worries” type response, or with considerate conditional statements like “When you’re free”. If she is not considerate in her reply, you do not want to send her consideration back.
When you get a brush off like this, instead be terser: “Cool. Let me know when that changes”
Don’t use scarcity when women are dodging you. When she’s saying, “Eh, I don’t want to meet that guy,” you don’t want to tell her, “Better act now! I may not be available later!” Do that and she’ll go, “Eh, who cares.” The point of throwing the ball in her court is to exit on emotionally neutral terms, while leaving the window open so that when her emotions change, she can reinitiate with you. e.g., right now she may be saying, “Eh, Lawliet… I’m meh on him.” But in a month or two she may be saying, “Man, I wish I had a cute guy to go out with… oh yeah, Lawliet! He said to get in touch later. Maybe I should give that guy a shot.”
The secret to small talk is to make it fun:
You: Coolest movie?
Her: Ah, I like the Avengers.
You: You’re totally into the Hulk, aren’t you?
Her: Haha, no. I’m a Thor kind of girl.
You: Long hair and electricity, I can see that. Personally, I’d go for Black Widow over Thor, but Thor IS pretty cute.
See how it can be personal and fun? Make it about her. Make it enjoyable. That’s what makes small talk worthwhile for a girl.
Chase
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