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340Breeze had a comment about issues he was running into managing his long-term relationships over on Darius’s recent article about leading and seduction – here’s the excerpt of Breeze’s comment relevant to our discussion today:
“... seems like women keep the hurt bottled up inside, and then women want to get revenge on me or hurt me because somehow my words hurt them (idk). My personality is such that I can’t easily control feeling the strong negative emotions when people who are close to me start acting like clowns, I get extremely pissed off for a little while, then after a few minutes I calm down. I don’t stay upset for long but some women seem to never ever let go of a bad feeling and cling to it with a death grip. And then some women are always testing, always poking and prodding, and always trying to say or do little things to try and get under your skin, and sometimes the shit they say or do is beyond the pale. It’s like they start drama for no reason all because they’re mad from 2 weeks or 2 months ago and instead of calmly talking about the issue and why/how they’re affected and coming to a calm solution, they let the negative emotions from the past infect their current and future feelings and subsequent behavior and I find it so hard not to say anything in response to their near-continuous shit testing.”
This is, unfortunately, a scenario most men run into eventually in long-term relationships, and a primary contributor to everything from breakups to cheating to “betaization” (that is, males moving into the subordinate role in a relationship).
So what’s the problem here, and what do we have to do to fix it?
Comments
Great Article Chase
Can you, or maybe Colt, do an article specially on how to get sorority girls? How they think, easy conversation outlines. Also perspective as being in a frat, or being a GDI. big vs small school difference. Thanks!
Sororities
Mattie-
I'll add it to our topics list!
Chase
Confused
I resolved a problem as soon as it came up, even to the point where I was cracking jokes afterwards- but the problem continued to resurface over the next few weeks, even months. What should I do at this point? Am I doing something wrong?
Depends on the Problem
Chuck,
It really depends on what the problem is and how you tackled it. Generally, if the problem came up again, there's only two possibilities:
(1) You didn't address the root of the problem. In other words, you thought you solved the problem that was aggravating your girlfriend, but it was just a surface-level issue, and you didn't dig to the root of the problem that was causing her to feel this way. So naturally, while you received temporary relief, the problem continued to dig itself up repeatedly because you weren't addressing the core reason behind it. It's important to understand that your girlfriend will usually be too afraid/upset to bring up the main reason she's upset, so you need to prod her until you get her to agree that you've reached the source of the issue.
(2) The problem is one of the seven unresolvable romantic conflicts of interest. Basically, you two are at an impasse because she wants something that she needs and you don't want to give that to her. OR, you have something that you need, and she won't give that to you, but if you're running things correctly, it should be the former. The only answer here is to either submit to her demands (as dominantly as possible) or to let her go so that she can have what she wants. Make sure to read the article I linked to get more information.
Hope this helps!
- Franco
Hiya
Aww. If only I had these problems to begin with. Hey chase did any other positions open up on your staff?
Open Positions
Anon-
Well, sooner or later...!
Re: positions, not at the moment, though we might need an images person again soon - I have to go through and check again with folks who applied last time, but if none of them are still available we'll open it up!
Chase
Wow!
So much value in one post. Especially the way a girl looks at a relationship as her investment. I have heard girls say
"I wasted three years of my life with him"
But I never looked at it like she was investing in a stock that didn't pay out. Great stuff Chase.
-Gupta
Bad Investments
William-
Cheers. The investment issue is a big one... although it depends on what point she's at in her life. It's more this way once she's shifted into nesting mode.
If she's 21 and wants to play the field, the investment she's making is more in her education than anything - she's learning about men and learning how to have relationships.
Totally dependent on the girl though - she could be 21 and conservative and really, really wants to settle down and have her first kid before 23. In that case, a relationship that doesn't pan out is a bad investment for her.
There's also the "what are her goals becoming" consideration... she might've gotten into the relationship at 25 thinking, "Meh, this'll be fun, this guy's cute," but 1.5 years in and she's pushing 27 and suddenly now it's become a "I need to know this is going somewhere before I dump any more time into it."
Where that's the case, unless a guy's relationship goals are aligned with hers and he wants to keep her around / move in / start a family / whatever else she wants as much as she does, it's the far more responsible and considerate option to toss her back in the sea and find a girl who isn't looking for something he cannot (or cares not to) provide.
Chase
Girlfriend
Girlfriend has new group of male friends ,these group of male friends are mainly her bestfriends new friends...she started hanging out with them whenever we fought ...mostly shes always with them.
As an alpha male , should i make new female friends and make her taste her own poisen ?
2- tell her to cutt off her new friends or leave ?
Jealousy
Anon-
Making female friends so she can "taste her own poison" is playing a losing game. Once you start playing, all she has to do is escalate the terms, and she can always meet more men and do more things with them, in every way, than you can women, no matter how good with girls you are.
Your option #2 is the savvy one. With the first option, you're reacting to her: "Oh no, she's doing X, what must I do to respond?" while option #2 makes her react to you: "This behavior from her is crummy and distracting. She can either knock it off, or go waste someone else's time."
Personally, I'd deal with it by, next time we got into an argument, telling her, "And if you go running off to a bunch of dudes because you're upset, then you might as well stay with them because I'm not dealing with the drama."
She'll attack you and call you insecure or jealous, and you'll just say nope, I just don't want to deal with a woman who repeatedly runs into the arms of other men every time she's mad at me; maybe something hasn't happened and maybe the odds are low, but take enough at bats and sooner or later you'll hit a home run purely by dumb luck. I'd rather have a woman who doesn't keep giving a bunch of men chances to smooth talk her when she's emotionally vulnerable; there are enough women out there who don't behave this way that I don't need to put up with one who does.
The important point here is making sure you explain it in a way she understands, rather than one that feels to her like you're trying to control her. The message needs to be you can do what you want, but if what you want is going to open me up to the risk of having a woman who's now hiding secrets from me, treating me less respectfully, or openly despising me, I'd rather go find someone else whose priorities are more aligned with my own.
Chase
Hello, happy to see an
Hello,
happy to see an article from you, Chase.
I have a question, not really looking for an answer, just something to think about. Where is game going as a whole male-female dynamic? How will it evolve? Meaning, like in ice hockey, it was not that fast and players did not have the technique 50 years ago like they have today, matches were won by good passes and renumbering. Nowadays, it is speed, strenght, agility, technique. So we could say the game went from house wife type and pure provider to today but where is it going, polygamy?
Future of the Mating Game
Michal-
Yeah, it’s fun to think about.
The mating dance has a few different cycles it goes through. Right now what you see in the West is the result of safe, affluent societies, in which marriage and reproduction rates decline and hedonism comes more to the fore. This happened in ancient Greece and Rome, the 10th century Caliphate, medieval Europe, and all manner of periods. It’s nothing terribly novel.
Polygamy seems to arise in very violent, unsafe societies with high male death rates, and we probably won’t see it much without those conditions. Women rebel against the institution when it isn’t necessary for survival, just as they rebel against more general marriage in even safer, less violent conditions (like the West right now).
Typically, you see mating trend in one direction or the other, depending primarily on safety levels and economics. The safer and wealthier a nation gets, the less constrained sexuality becomes but the less “ownership” and settled relationships you see. The more dangerous and poor it becomes, the more constrained sex gets and the more relationship “ownership” comes to the fore (first: monogamous marriage; then, in even more dangerous / resource-poor situations, where only a small group of men have the resources to provide for a family and guarantee their security, polygamy).
Where it goes then depends on where your region is heading. If the economy is improving and violence is vanishing, expect to see more casual sex, less commitment, and lower birth rates. If the economy is declining and violence is increasing, expect less casual sex, more commitment, and higher birth rates.
(Also, as to the housewife paradigm, the one in the 1950s was more an aberration than anything – women weren’t like that prior to the 1930s or so, and weren’t after the 1960s – economic depression and the loss of millions of men in World War II changed the social fabric in strange ways during those decades)
Chase
Efficiency chasing
"Whatever you’re doing, you probably have a good reason for it." it applies to pretty much everything. We're always in every moment somewhat trapped in "path of least resistance" game, where we're taking the path which seems to cause least trouble and the most possible returns. Whenever we're expressing that we're "free" we're simply changing the weights of circumstances assigning values to ones and thinking of anothers as useless and this is how we change behavior. But isn't it that all the sense of freedom that people think they have is only an illusion? We are always taking paths that are efficient (least problems, most rewards) kind of calculations happens in mind all the time.
This realization is frightening from the point of view that people are free. They're not that free, they're simply informed differently so they assign more value to other paths and live lives other way.
We're just efficiency chasing robots whether we are aware of it or find it more efficient to buy into illusion of control.
Free Will
The more interesting question to me is, “Whether you have free will or not, what changes?”
I think for most people, the only thing that might change for them would be the excuses they rely on ;)
Chase
Good to see you back, Chase,
Good to see you back, Chase, my boy! There is one thing missing here: you must make a disclaimer to the article saying "this can also help you in other circumstances related to relationships", and with that I'll be satisfied.
Good afternoon, Chase, my boy! I love saying that.
-Jaime O
teasing by friends exaggerated?
Hey Chase,
Do you ever deal with people like friends who will exaggerate shit in stories for laughs like for example a fire alarm goes off, you both calmly get out but he says you ran frightfully out. Shit like that. Should I just laugh along or will it hurt my social standing?
Little Undermining Nips and Teases
Anon-
It’s ladder-climbing behavior. See these articles on ladder-climbing and dealing with people trying to ladder-climb you:
Chase
RE: teasing by friends exaggerated?
Anon,
I used to have friends like that in my late teens and early 20s. For one thing, throwing your friends under the bus is an immature thing to do. The other thing is, as you get older (not sure how old you are) but you will find that it's incredibly liberating to cut people like that out of your life.
The people who used to throw me under the bus for laughs were guys I knew from high school, so I felt obliged to hang out with them in my early 20s. But as you get older, and meet higher quality people who respect you and don't put you down, you'll find that it's not only liberating, but necessary to cut people out of your life who put you down.
No, it's not okay that your friend does that. When he says you freaked out when the alarm went off, you (in a cool demeanor) say "No, it didn't happen. What're you talking about?" And if he's doesn't stop acting like a fool and doesn't get on the same chill, laid-back vibe as you, then he's a tool. Make cooler friends.
Adam
What if you just can't do this?
Hey Chase,
I liked this article—a lot. I always love the way you draw analogy (a.k.a. growing cancer).
Thank you, too, by the way, for your input in my "Manipulated Man" thread. Your advice on empathy helped me get over the scary, dark thoughts swirling about my head from that incident. I did my best to ask myself what I did to cause that situation, but to this day, I still can't quite put my finger on it.
For that reason, I have not taken another girl to bed since her (about three months now). Renunciation brings peace and a chance to focus. I'm weary of losing it easily by wantonly seducing more women, especially considering I may have a cancer of my own to deal with. I got into seduction in the first place because I saw it as a ray of hope to enjoy women and sex without all the "lock-down" baggage—a way to pursue my dreams without being alone forever. Now, I've hurt two really good girls. I don't know how to prevent that without losing my sovereignty.
Forgive me if I come off as a screw-up case or a whiner. I don't mean to. I wish I could contribute more value, but I'm lacking some key understanding somewhere. I suppose I just want to let you all know that I am still hear and reading—searching for wisdom and clues to answers.
Some men may be meant to stay solitary… it's OK.
-M
Relationship Setup
Mischief-
Yeah, tough when you’re the kind of guy women cling to and then start pinning their dreams on. In one way, it’s a compliment – women are frequently good judges of “potential”, at least in the “stable and trustworthy earner / achiever” department.
The easiest way around this is avoiding monogamy and making it clear to women from the get-go that you’re not a one-girl guy. When you’re dating multiple women, it prevents you from acting like the lovey-dovey monogamous boyfriend that causes women to start planning their futures around. Some will still try, but you’ve got enough real-life things in your life already that you’re not able to be that guy.
Otherwise, you will find yourself in the situation where you’re telling a girl not to pin her hopes on you, yet you’re pursuing a romantic monogamous or monogamous-like relationship, and she can’t help listening to your actions over your words. Congruence is the common thread here – get your life congruent with what you want your life to look like, and you can’t help but live it that way.
Chase
Wow… thank you, Chase!
When I look back at some of my actions with her, I did do things that could only have come off as monogamous: I even once brought all the ingredients over to her place and baked a cake… I thought I was being romantic and therefor sexy, but now I realize I was digging myself deep into a monogamy hole. It's deeply ingrained programming of the way I used to think of what women want.
The hard part is changing one's internal view, which I realize needs real world experience to work out, but… doing that without hurting girls while I bludgeon my way through the mistakes I need to make troubles me. I suppose this must be where empathy enters the equestrian.
Getting my life congruent with what I actually want out of it is really the linchpin I face right now.
Many thanks, Chase, for your advice. It's always enlightening and brings me some peace.
All the best man,
-M
Question
Hi Chase,
I have a question about this article, which by the way is fantastic and much needed.
You wrote:
"A woman is looking for a man to lead her, and if you cannot be that man once the initial stage of attracting her and establishing your strength has passed, she will find another man better equipped to lead... or, at least, one more interested than you are in having her on his team for the long haul."
Let's say there's a women who is in a relationship with a man and they are passed the initial stage. The woman is now looking for a leader but the man is not fulfilling the leadership role. This causes their relationship to become very rocky. Then I come along as the new man in her life. Do I take the role of the aloof bad boy, or do I pick up where the other guy didn't making the grade?
In other words, do I come off as the leader who nips problems in the bud or should I go through the aloof bad boy stage with her first? I can't figure out if the woman in this situation wants to go through the whole aloof thing with a guy when her current boyfriend's inability to deal with problems is why their relationship is on the rocks. Will being aloof be unattractive to her?
Thanks,
Adam
P.S. - You wrote about avoiding party girls, and that's so important. But I'd like to hear what you have to say about entitled types of women, like the model-type with an exaggerated sense of worth or women who were spoiled growing up and have a skewed view because of it.
Lover vs. Leader, Women with Ego
Adam-
Re: the girl with a boyfriend who won’t lead, you’re better off being attractive to her in a similar way to how the boyfriend initially was. If you try to help her resolve her problems without being in a sexual relationship with you, that <em>can</em> be extremely attractive done exactly right, but most men can’t pull it off and it becomes a classic nice guy situation – guy’s resolving all her problems for her while the bad boy rails her brains out.
Women will happily look for men who want to do this for them while they continue to get their sexual needs met by the bad boy boyfriend who refuses to take on any provider characteristics. It’s why you see so many girls complaining about their bad boy boyfriends, yet not breaking up with them – they have nice guy orbiters to help them with their other issues, which enables them to stay on letting the bad boy take care of them sexually while the nice guy helps them out emotionally (and platonically).
As for women with outsized views of themselves… see this article: “Dating Narcissistic and Egotistical Women.”
Chase
RE: Lover vs. Leader, Women with Ego
That makes total sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
By the way, it would be great if you did more pieces under "Mindsets," as your article about overcoming depression is incredibly profound. I think articles on achieving goals and motivation (and intertwining it to seduction) is something many of us can benefit from. I'd love to see something about making goals a reality and how to steer clear of laziness and procrastination.
Thanks,
Adam
I second this…!
I also re-read his article on overcoming depression just last month, and it helped me a lot. Chase has a remarkably down to earth approach to life that is very relatable. I've learned from him just how much of an impact even a little empathy can go in a seemingly insurmountable situation… I've even coached a few women struggling with depression (one whom I had slept with, but also others with whom I intentionally maintain platonic relationships) on the premise of using empathy to overcome the feeling of having been hurt for no reason—people really do what they do for usually very good reasons, even if those reasons are not immediately apparent. This is why I personally find GC such a valuable community and resource for my own life.
-M
Article Topic
Chase,
I recently got through your excellent ebook 'How to Make Girls Chase' and the two most interesting topics were screening self descriptions and implicit value. I would love to see these topics worked up in their own articles.
From a girl...
Chase, I'm impressed. You do seem to understand women. I wish all men read your articles and would heed your advice. I'll bet women could benefit from any dating advice you might have for us too. Food for thought?
Keep up the great work. And thank you...
-S
Hey Chase archives of
Hey Chase archives of articles are there to help guyz in the future without writing over again.
I found this article to be true and i just got couple of few questions
How do one balance the leadership role and the bad boy role?... I mean there is a time when mybe one was a bad boy in a relationship for a few months and the woman you're involved with chase and bites hard after your the leader who leads things and you address problems and start sending her morning messages and stuff as soon as one start being a leader who solves fights and problems your a nice guy who is mybe show casing neediness and desperation by solving too much problem too many time.
Problems arise in relationships but if you solve too many of them that are some sorts of shit test the woman might grap the power subconscious..
How do i balance the power between the bad boy leader and the relationship leader.
Thanks and i hope you're information will help and you understand what i'm trying to say...
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