Why I Quit Doing Friends with Benefits | Girls Chase

Why I Quit Doing Friends with Benefits

quit fwb
Friends with benefits (FWB) is a fun, no-strings way to have sex. So why give it up? There are 6 good reasons to, including laziness, distraction, and getting stuck with the wrong girl.

A little while back, I wrote a couple of posts on friends with benefits (FWB):

I noted here that I don’t do friends with benefits anymore. Guys have asked why over the years and I’ve talked about it a bit, but haven’t really sat down to give it a full-on article on the subject.

This article will be similar in spirit to “Why I Quit Dating Girls Who Club, Party, or Drink.” It’s about why I opted to quit doing something that sounds like a fun time (wild party girls; no-strings casual sex). And it’s about the pros and cons.

But let’s start with the basics. What’s not to love about friends with benefits?

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

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Comments

Jameo's picture

Chase,

I thought this was a great article but I had trouble distinguishing between a girlfriend and FWBs. Especially when I think back to Ricardous' article where he discusses dating multiple women. I think my issue is with how I see the term girlfriend being used on your site. When I think of a girlfriend I think of a relationship where two people do traditional boyfriend/girlfriend activities such as romantic dates, movies, meeting each others friends and family, picnics, etc. However when Ricardous talked about dating multiple women he used the term girlfriend but suggested not doing anything that would be considered too couple-y as well as not seeing each other too often. That to me sounds like a FWB relationship and not a girlfriend. Any clarity you can provide on this would be greatly appreciated.

Davit's picture

Hi Jameo,

I recommend you to start reading the article mentioned above about the stages of a FWB relationship (in general take the habits of reading related articles, it's a great way to learn and get your questions answered ;). Let me also quote you a part of the other article related to that kind of relationships' rules:

-Going out to dinner
-Going to the movies
-Going to events / parties / activities
-Kissing outside of the bedroom / not leading to sex
-Calling her "just to talk"
-Texting her about anything other than meeting up (for sex)
-Chatting her up on IM or social media
-Posting pictures of the two of you on social media

These are activities you should do in LTR (long term relationships) with your girlfriend, not with friends with benefits.
Basically anything you do with her that's not sexually related is a sign that she's in a stage where she seeks more than what she currently gets (Restless stage), or, if you're in the early stages of the relationship (first hang outs), it means that your expectations have been incorrectly set.

Now you're certainly wondering the limits of a LTR as well. About the picnic stuff I personally remember Ricardus even recommending it if you want to create a powerful emotional connection with a girl (see hereWife transition.

As you should know by reading the articles I quoted, women a restless. Their biological clock pushes them to be the one seeking for more and more commitment over time. After fuck buddies you then become a couple (if ever you give in), then the next stage is founding a family (at least in the traditional way of things, legally covered by mariage or not). We can then observe the same dynamic as from FWB > LTR in this LTR > Family transition. The latter is yet smoother than the former.

Once she got the LTR, she now needs two things: a commitment from you to get her pregnant at some point in the years coming, so her biological clock can stop alarming her the whole time about it; second, a flow of ressources to sustain this upcoming project.

If she's already in a relationship with you, and you know that this isn't a boundless relationship and that you are EMOTIONALLY IMPACTING her and started INVESTING in your relationship, she'll play the easiest way to get your commitment: sunk costs fallacy theory, reinforced by Daniel Kahneman's analysis of Decision under Risk..
Basically she's going to get more and more investment in your relationship, as much as she can, even 7 days a week. She's going to ask you to meet her friends, she'll take all occasions she has to create bonds with yours, and get as close as she can to your family and inversely you in hers. That's where you see those activities you've been warned here and there.

Once you put this investment she asked and let her lead her schedule, you'll be facing a decision exactly as in the first place when she's trying to suck you in a LTR. Are you going to quit the relationship, and lose all the investment you made in her? Are you really going to find a girl that's so much better than her that it's worth leaving? And how much time and investment will be needed for that new relationship? Is it worth it (cfr. Kahneman's work, telling us that to compensate a loss of 1000€ people need at least 2000€ or 3000€ to feel satisfied, translate the same here to perceive the risk aversion of human behavior)? And if you decide to leave, you're going to emotionally DESTROY her, because you KNEW you had an impact on her and let her schedule your investment in your relationship for so long (this can last around 1 to 3 years or even more depending on your age). So considering all the guilt, sunk cost fallacy, uncertainty of a better relationship that'd be worth the marginal investment needed...well you settle and accept this unfavorable deal (cause yeah, anything less than your dream girl is not worth spending your whole life with).

And all this starts when you were in a relationship and "simply" accepting to meet her friends or picnic with her family and other "romantic" labeled fantasy.

So ultimately, a FWB is a relationship where contacts and meet ups revoles around sexual needs' satisfaction, LTR are more than that and include more interesting and diversified dates and some level of romance. Still be awake about what you want from the current relationship you're in, not to get stuck in another scenario at another stage. Even once your in a LTR and biological clock knocks as a bitch. ;)

Davit

Jameo's picture

Davit,

Thanks for the thorough explanation. That was the sort of clarity I was looking for and solidified my train of though after initially reading this article. Now that that is out of the way it sounds like what Chase is talking about is running LTRs without the monogamy. He mentions making girlfriend caliber girls his girlfriends while still enjoying 1 night stands.

If that is so, how does one make that happen? I have FWB relationships along with a number of one night stands. The women I enjoy the FWB relationships with always end up wanting more (IE commitment) at some point and are quite territorial even though they know or suspect that I see and sleep with other women. For those reasons I couldn't imagine being able to openly run multiple LTRs (if I'm interpreting Chase correctly) although I know it is possible.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Jameo-

Informally, I use 'girlfriend' for any kind of girl you're in a sexual relationship with, friends-with-benefits included. On GirlsChase.com, I try to stick to using it just for committed long-term relationships. If you see me slip up anywhere though, that's just my normal / off-site parlance slipping in (sorry for confusion if I did that anywhere). I try to save that term just for LTRs / mLTRs on-site.

You can use open relationships to keep girlfriends yet still sleep with other girls as well. We had a 2-hour podcast with Caleb Jones on here about that a while back:

That relationship setup is not my personal preference, but it's probably the most accessible option for most guys to keep girls around long-term without restricting yourself to a single girlfriend.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Could you tell me rough number of girls you slept with and girlfriends (someone you had a relationship with)? I'm curious in the metrics. Thanks.

Fish's picture

Hi Chase, how do you juggle the girlfriend(s) and still getting one night stands? Isn't that cheating and if so, where do you stand morally on that? I can definitely see the value of developing relationship and same day lay skills simultaneously.

Swearing off FWB by the way ;)

FISH

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Fish-

I am morally against what I dub 'full' infidelity, where the girl believes you are 100% exclusive to her and you do nothing to disabuse her of this notion / actively encourage it. I think it's wrong, irresponsible, and leaves a trail of emotional wreckage behind you that is just careless and bad.

Girlfriends and one-night stands you can do with an open relationship. You can also run what I call one-sided monogamy; older guys in the PUA community used to call this mLTR sometimes (although sometimes what they meant by mLTR was just 'open relationships'; depended on the guy). The challenge with that is you put a girl into a much more emotionally vulnerable situation, and you're also fighting social norms as well, which put more and more pressure on the relationship the longer she dates you.

The more unconventional a relationship setup you want to run, the harder it gets and the more potential for hurt feelings and broken hearts there are, no matter how careful you run things. Which is probably why most guys who want to have their cake and eat it too stick to open setups - just easier to run.

Chase

Sarco's picture

Haha, it applies on porn well too. You can change "FWB" to "Porn", reread this article and you won't see much a difference. You'll still see laziness, ego thing (you accept less, so maybe you're worth less?), distraction and so on! ;)

Anon.'s picture

Why not go poly? Blackdragon has nice techniques for that, for example

Author
Chase Amante's picture

We have a two hour interview with him, actually, right here!:

Girls Chase Podcast Interviews Ep. 6: Blackdragon

Chase

Kaelos's picture

Chase, at this time in your life you're either going for regular ONS or you have a monogamous girlfriend, is that right?

Simon K.'s picture

What those girls are doing is exactly what you advise guys on this site to do. A lot of guys interested in PUA also have a lot of issues(narcissism, autism, sociopathy, depression, bad childhood etc.), just like those girls.

You even state something like: "Run your relationships as FWB, especially in early stages."

Template those girls are following:

-She hooks up with him quickly
-She gives him great sex
-He stops seeing other women (while she goes out with other men or at least gets approached often)
-She gets him into a relationship

Template you suggest guys follow:

-You hook up with her quickly
-You give her great sex
-She stops exposing herself to other men (while you go out and practice your pickup skills)
-You get her into a relationship

Btw, I'm not judging or anything. You can actually learn a lot from those girls.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Simon-

Great highlight. Same, mirrored tactics. Though, in this case, the difference is in the effect on each sex's value.

Whether male or female, this strategy use sex as the foot-in-the-door to a possible longer-term relationship later.

I advise men pursue this strategy as a shortcut around the lengthy / more challenging boyfriend vetting process. Go in as a lover, then convert her to a girlfriend later (if that's what you want). Typically, if you can have sex with her faster, you get a value boost in her eyes: you are a more powerful, more virile male.

It's somewhat different for women. Fast and casual sex usually leads to a value hit for women; the girl who sleeps with a man fast and/or casually looks 'easy' and loses value. So when she goes this route, she makes a gamble that she can trade in some of her value for a chance to rope him in through exposure or complacency. Men face no such gamble going this route (which is why most guys will not object to using this strategy, while many girls chafe at the thought of using it and judge other women negatively who do).

Chase

someguy's picture

Hey Chase

nice structure to this article. I feel you. The becoming lazy, then becoming a mix of attached and also lower selfesteem.

Best regards!

Somedude's picture

I always thought having multiple fwbs at the same time was the pinnacle of abundance mentality and successful game, but now i realize it only is the beginning of the end. You blew my mind again.

Lawliet's picture

Hey Chase,

Thanks for your article.
I'm curious.
We know fwb can give us sex with no strings, but additionally and importantly, sexual experience.
Great to keep our sexual ability honed while we keep fishing.

I want to know how you transitioned from (what relationship type did you start with?) to now?
If you drop it, then what do you do instead to maintain your skill honed while having long term relationships (or multiple?)? How do you manage it?

When seduction process goes smoothly, and you can now have sex with this girl (to get more sex experience) when you meet, won't that be a great opportunity to get experience that hone your skill?

Maybe for you, it's easy to close.
But I haven't had experience on that last part.
If I reach it and can establish more experience in that part, (without waiting to do the whole dance over again with a new girl just to gain the experience), won't that be a better learning experience?
To clarify, I'm not suggesting settle for a girl who finally gives you sex, that's terrible.
I'm saying have sex with someone more so you hone sex part as we continue to build our skill with women.

So...should I do it?

This brings up my other concern,
Re: Expectations.

You say we must avoid having sex with them more than 2x otherwise it gives them false expectation of relationship, and hurt their feelings, but then how do you end it? My concern is twofold. First is experience (it's good experience, which elaboration is above)

Secondly, You can't just say "Hey, it's the second time, we can't see anymore"
How would you cut off without burning bridges, or cut off without hurting them too much that they come burn your house?
They'll keep contacting you after the second time.
And I know how it felt in the past, so I wouldn't want others feeling the same way.

Just my half cent,
Lawliet

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lawliet-

When you're new and not getting much in the way of results, I don't see anything wrong with FWB. It can help you get used to being in a sexual relationship with women, and give you the chance to hone your technique in the bedroom, yes.

I think for where it sounds like you're at right now, it's probably fine.

If you're already comfortable with FWB but prefer a higher caliber girl, why not look for candidates for an open relationship? Sounds like that might best suit the spot you're in.

As for ending things after the second time if you've only slept together twice, it's simple to simply just not text her to hang out again. Or not have time to see her if she texts you. Two times does not a relationship make.

Exception being if you had a protracted courtship prior to sex. If you took her on several dates or talked a lot or had a long flirtation before sex, you'll need to make sure before sex she has the proper expectations. If you don't, she'll often end up hurt.

Chase

Lawliet's picture

Just a final note,

I do want the companionship part we get in serious relationships, but...my skilL!
Yeah...not sure what I should do in this case.

I'm picky; I want both someone to really get you, relate to you and connect, like a top companion, us vs. world; but also access to sex easily and other girls too. Am I asking too much? :(

And on top of that, I don't want to hurt them... it just gets cloudier...
Should I just do fwb for the sake of risk hurting others? But I'm afraid...I'll end up the wrong place.
I can't let myself just accept a type that doesn't satisfy my all pickiness; but I also don't want to hurt others by trial and error until I can set up the right combo.

What should I do?

Why do I have to be so picky..
Lawliet

Grown's picture

Hi Chase I'm inspired to give up my FWB bc of this. I'm gonna try and see her one more time and get it out of my system. You are right about FWB they just slow down

SZ's picture

Replying to your last comment Chase,

1. You bring up good points about vision and Ambition to be high status when dealing with women with good careers, I have tried to look up articles for them, but couldn't find them.

I know people can become ambitious and have a vision, but what does it really mean to have it?

a guy can lie to people and say they are ambitious and have vision, how do you really mean it.

My main question is how do I get this Ambition and vision you speak of?

I'm ambitious to be great in life, but maybe my mindset isn't in the right place?

How do I have a strong vision and have the Ambition you speak of when dealing with these types of women and people in general? How do I develop it and show them that?

also, how does one not fall into a useless Ambition where they waste Their time and might fail?

2. You said you are in your best shape since 18. What's your diet Chase? or do you just eat whatever you want, but keep it under 1500 calories?

When I mentioned getting old, I really meant old, like 50s n up when it's considerably harder to stay in shape and sleep with girls under 30, but I understand what you're saying.

3. Should you feel less of a man and person because of your lay count? should you feel bad?

Or should you feel you are the man no matter what and be cocky as hell no matter what?

I don't mean to ask the same questions over and over, I either don't find the comments where you respond to because I might have overlooked it, or I genuinely forget becauseI have so many years thoughts in my head, I'll work on remembering everything.

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

Selecting your own vision/mission/ambition takes time. I suggest reading a lot, particularly a diverse diet of books, and preferably books from history's greatest thinkers. Start with Lubbock's List. Look for causes that need your help in the world. Figure out which one motivates you most and you can make an impact on. As you play around with different ideas, you'll discover many lose their appeal after a while, while some stick. Eventually, a vision of your own starts to form.

The Elon Musk biography might be a good example of a book that describes how one man found his mission. Musk sort of casted about after he left PayPal, unsure what to do. There's a bunch of bumbling around and starting off with somewhat nutty ideas that led to a much more concrete one in the founding of SpaceX.

For diet, check out Eric's post on weight loss. I followed his reduced feeding window method (took my feeding window down to 4-6 hours per day):

As for lay count, I doubt any of the great men of history stayed up late at night worrying whether they'd shagged more girls than the opposing general, warrior, or king.

It's worth worrying about when you're hard into the 'seduction as obsession' phase, where you're really focused on game as a skill set, and I wouldn't encourage you to abandon it because it's a useful motivator when the goal is to get good with girls.

But beyond that 3 to 5 year period where this is your primary self-improvement focus, I wouldn't let it bother you whether you're at 5 lays, 50 lays, or 500 lays, so long as you're doing what you need to in life, having the impacts you need to, and do everything a man ought to do.

Chase

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