Dating Advice for Men: Why NOT to Get It from Women | Girls Chase

Dating Advice for Men: Why NOT to Get It from Women

Chase Amante

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dating advice for menIn the recent post that discusses whether you should pay for a date, a reader comments:

A woman's perspective: If you invite her, you pay. If the guy asked me, so he should pay. I really don't think this is unreasonable. I do, however, think that it is unreasonable to invite someone out and then expect them to pay for themself or for both of you- probably they would, out of politeness, but would be very angry about it and would never see you again.

I once met a great guy who basically made me pay for the dinner he invited me to. I wrote him off and never saw him again. What a cheapskate!!

All I'm saying is that basically, if you follow this man's advice and don't pay for a woman on a date when you invited, you will lose your chance with her. Nobody expects you to spend a week's wages on a fancy meal. But if you invite, you should pay. Same as when I invite (and I do, and so do many women), I pay.

Lisa

Anyone who knows me in real life knows I think women kick ass. All my current and former lovers count me as one of their best friends, if not their very best friend, and I frequently discuss a lot of deep relationship and social dynamic stuff with women. I find that the average woman has a much firmer intuitive grasp of the way people are and the way people work than the average man does, and when you explain advanced social concepts, women are often quicker to parse them, pick them up, and arrive at intuitive mental corollaries than men are.

That said, and I hope no one takes it personal, but... women are the WORST on the planet at giving out dating advice for men.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

Migz's picture

LMAO!

Even Chris Rock was wrong on this one and gave the wrong mainstream advice. Of course a woman who doesn't like you will be infuriated, but she was planning to make you pay even if you had no chance, so who cares if she's angry?

If she likes you and is attracted to you, having her pay is like shooting at the boyfriend/provider box with a bazooka. Lover is the only remaining option. Like a nerdy redhead used to say: it's Win-Win.

Brent's picture

Chase,

I enjoyed the shout out in your post. I just read your response to my first comment on the "Should You Pay for a Date?" post and I can see what you mean. I just went out on another date with the same girl this past Tuesday and we ended up splitting the bill this time. She volunteered and made it a point to pay half which I really enjoyed as she shoved cash in my face. I returned the favor later once we got back to my place. Point is a lot of women don't even bother pretending like they are going to pay. (A tip for the ladies, even if you don't plan on paying you should still make an attempt to look like you could)

I can see in some situations why I would succeed in sleeping with a woman even after paying because in many of those situations I could have done just about anything and she was still coming home with me. This all comes down to the girls’ interest level and perceived value of me at the time. As you pointed out to Lisa if you can build enough rapport, and establish a sexual vibe or connection throughout the date, paying or not paying will have no affect on the outcome of that date or future dates.

As far as the long-term provider, lover, and friend chart. I feel at this point in my interactions with women those don’t even play a factor. I've been attempting to better myself with women for almost 4 years now. This includes physically, mentally, and basically anything you can think of I have read and tested in the field. In the past I would analyze and think way too much about being caught in the friend zone.

I realized I was basing my interactions with women in a way as you put it “not to lose”. At this point in my life and it took several years of failure and frustration to get here. I no longer look at it like the women place me into friends, lover, or provider. I place the women into whatever category I feel they fit best in when it comes to my life. If they don’t agree with what category I place them in, I simply move onto the next one. They won’t sleep with me or some even do sleep with me and after give me the friend talk I say okay and ask them if they have any hot single friends. Once you let go and stop analyzing so much and live in your own reality women can sense this and that’s when as your blog so elegantly states “girls chase”. (I know this is a long post but I had to get it off my chest) Keep up the good work dude.

Brent

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey fellas,

Aye, I didn't even know there were all that many female readers of this blog, but yeah – seems like gals aren't liking the post on whether you should pay for a date all that much!

Migz, that's the point exactly – men need to avoid things that are going to position them as traditional boyfriend / provider types. If I see one thing that's hurting men's chances at succeeding with women, more and more, I'm realizing that's what it is.

Brent, you're more than welcome for the shout-out – and cool to see you on here again!

You make a great point about transcending beyond the friend-lover-provider chart. It's one of those things that can be hell when you're still trapped within it, but after a while, yeah, you don't even need to think about it. You sound like you're in a place now where you know what you're looking for and what you'll accept (and not accept) from women.

Ha, you know when I get the friend talk after sleeping with a girl, I typically just agree and say, "Yeah, I think that's probably for the best, if we just stick to being friends from now on," and, like clockwork, I get a text message the next day telling me they need to see me again. At that point though, I've already "moved on" and have to remind them of their idea to be just friends and how we both thought that was a great plan!

I commented to a friend of mine recently that coaching and this blog are the only things that are allowing me to keep an analytical handle on all this. Even with these things, sometimes I see guys struggling with girls and think to myself, "What's the big deal? You just go talk to girls, then invite them home, and then you get together, in like a couple of hours. Not so tough." It's amazing how much it changes from the early days when you feel like getting together with a girl is some enormous mountain to climb...

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hi,

I'm a woman and I've been reading your blog because I find it so fascinating. It's really a breath of fresh air in comparison to blogs by women advising women on dating and all. I'm actually not looking for advice or anything, but I simply like how direct and frank you are! I also enjoy reading up on these things for some reason.

Anyways, I know for sure that women only want to keep the status quo, to keep things happy. I remember going out with this guy, and none of my friends would alert me about who he really was (I was in love and didn't notice anything) because they saw I was happy. They didn't want to ruin anything.
If you know me well enough, you *know* I'll tell you what the situation is, so I was a bit surprised that no one else did that. I remember one friend coming to me to rant about her on and off again boyfriend (the relationship was a total fiasco, I don't know how I survived), and asked me what to do. I don't like giving advice to friends when it comes to relationships, so I only told her what the situation looked like to me --he was not interested in her. This was the truth, he ended up breaking up with her completely later for that reason, but I was somewhat amused at how she never came to rant or seek help from me again. She went to another friend who I knew was going to be sympathetic and joining her in her "I hate all men" thing.

So it was good to see you articulate this observation of mine.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/advice/who-should-pay-for-dates?cli...
Words from the "guy guru" at Cosmopolitan, I thought it would be interesting for you to see this.

PS: I do think there's more to Lisa's story than what she's telling us!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey, thanks for your comments! I'm glad this post apparently didn't come off as some polarizing "Screw women!"-sounding diatribe as I've seen other guys launch into.

The "maintaining the status quo when it comes to commenting on others' relationships" is an interesting quirk of many/most women's. I might write a post on it at some point, but I've noted a couple distinct-but-common flavors among women: the women who have tons of girlfriends but few or no guy friends, and the women who have tons of guy friends but fewer girlfriends (mostly because they tire of the drama). There are girls in between too, but it seems like most women fall into one or the other category.

The ones with lots of guy friends tend to be really straight and blunt about things and "tell it like it is," like you do. The ones with mostly girlfriends tend to be more concerned with taking each other's side than in giving each other honest opinions about things. I view this as likely stemming from most women's sensitivity to the strength of social bonds; most gals are constantly scanning to see how connected the bonds they share with others are, and they'd rather show solidarity than potentially risk those bonds by giving contentious/worldview-challenging advice.

Incidental to this, most guys are kind of knuckleheaded about showing "connectedness" properly, at least the way most women appreciate it (active listening, commiseration rather than problem solving, ability to deeply bond over all sorts of things rather than debate or contrast), which is why so many women who have few to no male friends tend to have relationships that explode sooner or later -- they don't get men, and men don't get them.

I checked out the "Guy Guru" over at Cosmo. Interesting read. I think that pretty accurately reflects American mainstream thought on paying for dates -- traditionally, the man always pays; now, with gender roles in flux, it isn't really all that clear, but the man probably ought to at least be willing to pay the greater amount of the time. I'm tempted to do a post on economic and evolutionarily biological factors and why men paid for women traditionally and why it's shifting towards splitting the bill but with men still contributing a somewhat greater amount, because it's actually something I'm fascinated by (how males compete for females, and how it's more complex and layered in human society than among, say, lions or chimpanzees or songbirds)... but I don't know how much interest that'd generate on here ;) And besides, as one of my posters recently noted... I'm no evolutionary biologist. I'd probably have to cite more sources than it'd be worth to have any measure of credibility!

Anyway, for the record, I've lost a few guy friends for telling them I didn't think the girl they were seeing was such a great match for them, so it isn't only some women who react that way ;) People get pretty sensitive about their relationships... I'm constantly reminded of the need to tread lightly when dispensing advice there.

Cheers,
Chase

Brent's picture

That's great what you just said about different types of women who have lots of female friends or lots of guy friends... I completely agree with you on that... it's generally always girls with one or the other and once you find this out, it can make a great deal of difference in how you go about getting to know them and you can start to really understand how they respond in relationships.

Always a pleasure to see a woman who can face the facts of life and not be so naive to how things really are. Keeping with my first few comments on here. I went out to dinner with the same girl I've been talking about in my previous comment posts. We went out again this past Tuesday. She paid for the entire dinner. I'll tell you one thing for sure. I enjoy this she pays thing much more then me paying for everything.

I feel like in the past I almost felt obligated to pay for women because I was almost trying to prove something. Like I had to pay for them so they would like me more. Looking back I now realize, damn that was stupid. What kind of message does that send. Now I understand it doesn't matter if she likes me... do i like her is the real question. She pays or I pay it's all about how I make her feel. If there is a mutual attraction and we connect it really won't matter if she pays or I pay... When your just learning this stuff it's hard to comprehend. Confidence through experience...

Brent

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Brent, I commiserate with you feeling "pressured" to pay for things. I'd get that feeling at times back in the day... not a good feeling feeling pressured to do anything, really.

I just put up a post on drawing the line between providing value and trying to impress women here:

Non-Supplication: Why Working to Impress Women Doesn't Work

explaining a little more of the rationale behind it...

Great to hear your gal sprung for dinner! Always good when you meet a cool chick who recognizes you're on her level.

Cheers bro,
Chase

aamelron's picture

I find it humorous that a lot of these ladies say "if you ask them out, you should pay, it's only fair."

The problem with that the decks are rigged by society, even for a ladies man like Chase, 90% of the time the guy is going to be the one to have to ask a girl out.

Ryan's picture

Oh god. I totally understand when you say that women are terrible at giving dating advice to men. You see, I grew up in some rather strange circumstances. I have 6 sisters and 7 aunts. 2 of my sisters are younger than me and 4 of my sisters are older than me. I have no brothers, I do have a lot of uncles, but that's on my father's side and they're kind of crazy and I've never met them (my dad's side is a family of black sheep). Eventually I understood that they're all pretty darn terrible at giving dating advice, I won't go too much into details though, but yeah, I've had way too much of a feminine influence in my life. A wonderful influence to have in other aspects of life, just not in this.

Danny's picture

LOL!! I asked my older sister who had lots of dating experience the same open-ended question: Have you ever had a man buy you dinner but then, despite him not being a cheapskate, you nevertheless never saw him again either after that?

Her response is: Of course. If it's a bad date, why would I go again? Such is life.

What's wrong, Lisa? How come you are not responding Chase's post? By the way, I think if I listen to YOUR malicious advice, I won't get any girls.

Good Job, Chase!

Cheers~~

Dude Chase, I bought your ebook and it is spectacular! You are the boss! =)

Wisegirl's picture

This is a case of assuming consistent results relate to an
unconnected cause.

In this article the author says that when a girl pays for him it leads to him getting laid 75% of the time.

No kidding!

But she's not sleeping with you because she paid for you....she paid for you because she was that desperate to sleep with you!!

If a girl is quite interested in you to very interested in you, (yet not desperate - I have to have him!) then paying for you is a concept that is going to turn her off!

Jesus. If a girl would pay for you she'd probably jump, hop and skip, if you asked her to, that doesn't mean that most women would or that the jumping, hoping and skipping is what turned her on!

Ezra's picture

Oh, I believe it. I just question the causation. A woman who'll pay for you is probably one that was already strongly inclined to sleep with you. A woman who'd sleep with you after she picks up the check is probably one who'd also sleep with you if you picked up the check. Who picks up the check has no bearing on whether *that* woman will sleep with you. The question is whether a woman who's on the fence about sleeping with you can be converted into one who's strongly inclined to sleep with you by you making her pay for or split the meal. And that, I very much doubt. That process of conversion must be accomplished though conversation, physical behavior, etc, and not by making someone pay for a meal she wasn't already inclined to pay for.

william excellent's picture

its not logic its psychology it a combination of all the commitments she sees herslef making that turns her on even more and paying for a date is a big part of it - its dats simple

Robert 's picture

(Chase; just found the site and I can't leave this topic alone. Sorry for the length of post.)

I find it interesting that a woman would say "If a guy doesn't pay, I'd be turned off" but the same woman would stick to the ceiling tiles if you spoke up and called her a wh*re. But, isn't that what's implied? No pay=No sex/Pay=Sex. Would those "women" offer more energetic sex if the guy paid at a $500/plate Beard Award-winning restaurant, or any pay gets a lay? Is there a minimum? Really, this should be specified, 'cause if that's the case they should be open to other acceptable forms of pay as McDonald's does run coupons in the newspaper occasionally. If he pays for the meal solely with coupons, zero cash output, does it still count?

Simply put, women don't even know what they want and as such, they are lousy at giving advice but some of them are great at protecting what's always worked. I saw several replies in the aforementioned post and I found it hilarious that nearly every chick over there was banging the drum for why it was so wrong. It makes total sense: if I could convince the world that only the one who pursues the date should pay, and I could also convince the world that women should take the role of asking, I could sit on my butt for years and live like a king whilst promising a lot and delivering nothing. Free food, free drinks, gifts, swanky dinners at the finest restaurants in town, and all for zero effort on my part. Let's be real here: in this world, if you're a guy and you want to go out with a woman, you're doing the asking. By that token, in many women's minds you'd also be stuck doing all the paying. I can count on one hand the number of women I know who've been the one to take the initiative.

In the first date I...do...not...pay her part. If I feel she's going to be the gal for the future, then maybe things change but on the first date if I suspect for a second that I'm going to be expected "by tradition" to pay, then guess what sweetheart, we're going to the park. I'll call the audible and throw the ball a totally different direction. It turns off some women and that's understandable because that system doesn't fail 99% of the time, and when I opt-out, the system of profiting from the genetic advantage has failed that 1% of the time. The beauty of this is that it weeds out any chick who's just a hooker who doesn't overtly advertise and I end up spending time with women who are with me not because of my wallet but because of what I am as a human being. Right off the bat, I eliminate a lot of "traditional girls" who are...let's be polite and call it "sitting on a gold mine." If she's with me to be with me and see what I am as a person, that's the woman I want to be with! I don't care about missing out on the chick who's going to proportionally flirt more in a restaurant with cloth napkins over paper ones! (And yes, I use the term chick because she's not a real woman, but a little girl looking for a free ride thanks to having been born penis-free.)

Sorry to spill a big secret, probably should keep it to myself, but I won't. One line I've been using a lot lately is as such: if she pays for me I cut her off at the knees out of the blue, but delivered almost jokingly...almost. "I hope you're not expecting to bang me tonight just for buying my meal. It's such a cliche when guys pay and expect it from women, and...I'm just not sure tonight's the night for us." Boom. Gets her predatory instinct kicking, wanting what she's been told she can't have, makes her immediately feel like the one who should be pursuing and asking herself why she's not. When she fails to figure out why she's not, the switch in her head flips and she starts moving fast.

Fellas, you cannot set yourself up for a situation to say that to her and to start that process in motion if it's your credit card being taken to the register with the check. It doesn't work that direction. Women are incredibly complex and can be very confusing. When you stop doing what "tradition" and the system demands, it trigger's instincts in them that even they don't understand.

The point is to get the girl to want you, not to keep us chasing them around like puppies. It's easier to make her wonder why she's not having sex with you than to make her understand why she should.

Daniel Estember's picture

Never listen women when it comes to love advice. I had a friend who told me to go to my ex and ask for one last chance. My ex never agreed to meetup. My ex got so angry when I came to her place. So please DON'T ASK ADVICE FROM WOMEN

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