Is It Ever Okay to Date a Feminist? | Girls Chase

Is It Ever Okay to Date a Feminist?

Chase Amante

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date a feminist
Feminism has fast become a dominant ideology. When so many of the girls you meet have feminist leanings, should you ever actually date a feminist?

One of the more unusual phenomena we see in the West right now is that in many cases, men and women operate under divergent belief systems.

It’s quite odd, when you think about it. Most places, at most points in history, men and women operate under the same belief system, and agree on the same tenets. Usually that belief system is a religion, like Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, or Shinto.

But in the absence of religion, other causes come to fill this space by inspiring a new form of religious belief or fervor. Any time something has an -ism attached to its name, it stands a reasonable chance of coming to occupy religious-level importance to people.

One such example is feminism.

Feminism has reached a degree in the West where non-believers are immediately ‘othered’ by the more hardcore adherents of the philosophy. It has its own truths, like the wage-gap and ‘rape culture’, that are immune to facts and statistics and have moved beyond scientific falsifiability. And it engenders a particularly combative relationship between the sexes.

The purpose of this site is not to either support or combat feminism; feminism comes and goes through history, and is a perpetual feature of advanced, wealthy, safe societies. The purpose of this site is to give you useful tools to make better life decisions.

And the one we’ll talk about today is this: should you ever date a girl who subscribes to feminism... or any other -ism diametrically opposed to your own beliefs?

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.

GET CHASE’S ONE DATE SYSTEM

Comments

Anonym's picture

Hi Chase,

An interesting and also a bit provoking article. I have a few comments, some of them are sritical.

Firstly, the references to Bible are interesting, though not all your readers are Christians or otherwise religious. For me, as an atheist, Bible is just a book that express views of its authors, though in a unique way.

I have never been in the U.S. so I am not in detail familiar with the U.S. mainstream discourse, but in our media there are plenty of information about what happen in your country. I have read also some books about it. I am from Czech republic, where the situation is different. There is kind of mix of Eastern and Western European culture. A feminist movement here is very small, maybe it is not appropriate to call it a movement. But some feminist ideas spread in our country regardless. In the pop culture and in media almost nobody declares open sympathy for feminism, although many people have in fact feminist views in many issues. There are a lot of negative stereotypes and misunderstandings about feminism and most people do not want to be labelled this way. Part of feminist criticicm is basically based on ad hominem argumentation like that feminists are unattractive women unable to find a boyfriend or husband or who have had no sex for a long time or who hate men. This stereotypes are mostly not truth. I personally now some academic feminists and all of them are smart, well educated, confident, ambitious women, some of them are attractive. And I do not feel any resentment towards men on their part when they talk to me.

I have always had troubles in relatinships with women. As a child I was extremely shy and clueless around women and I did not know what they were attracted to and generally I did not understand them. My father is a very masculine man, my mother is a very feminine woman. They are both atheists, they are not at all feminists and they are also sexually conservative and we have never discussed sex, relationships and feelings (that contributed to my sexual shame). Sex and relationships were not taught at school, I was too shy to ask someone and I had never been in social situations where I could have figured it out from the context. Information from medias were often contradictory, shallow and confusing. I started to study at university while still being clueless. My field was social science and here I met with gender studies and feminism. It was the most sophisticated view on relations between men and women that I had ever met that time and it attracted me, I developed sympathy for feminism. I learned many things from both about women and men, but it did not help me with picking up girls (of course, it is not meant to, feminism has different goals). On the other hand, there is one great benefit of sympathy to feminism: if you have it, you cannot really feel bitterness towards women and have beliefs like „all women are sluts“ or „all women are interested just in your money“. You also want to emphatize with them, though your empathy is based on the interpretation that gender studies offer.

I noticed that many people in the pickup community or on GirlsChase are strongly critical towards feminism and sometimes they really hate it. But I think that many of those critics, including you in this article, make one important mistake: they treat feminism as homogeneous movement. But in reality there are many streams in feminism (as well as in liberalism, conservatism or socialism). I would like to point here that what you write is in many ways compatible with certain versions of feminism.

F.e. one of the biggest discussions in feminism was between difference feminism and equality feminism. Difference feminism stressed differences between men and women and uniqueness of female experience and that both sexes and their values should be treated equally with respect to their differences. Equality feminism stressed similarities between both sexes in order to argue for equal treatment of women. Equality feminism became more mainstream.

Here are a few examples where I believe what you write is compatible with feminism:

1. You criticize male bitterness towards women – so do feminists, they call it mysogyny.
2. You like successfull and driven women – so do feminists, they support women to be strong and successfull (in fact, existence of this women is more product of feminism and emancipation than traditional roles and conservatism).
3. You want to recognize female emotional and sexual needs, to respect this needs, to satisfy them and not to judge women for having them. You want to help women to be sexually liberated and overcome fear of slut shaming – so do feminists, they fight for female sexual liberation and against slut shaming.
4. You do not want to hurt women. – So do feminists, all the critic of male violence against women is about this.
5. You probably agree with most following things: that woman should have right to vote and to be voted, to have whatever job they want (if they want it and handle requirements of the job), to have access to all kind of education, to have equal right in marriage and at divorce, to have legal abortion option if they want, to have equal wage for equal job as men, to practice sports, to have better conditions for combining family and career if they want to have both etc. – all of that are important historical claims of feminist movement, not of traditionalists or conservatives.

The only significant difference is probably issue of differences between sexes: what is their nature and in what extent are they inborn and learned? One example is issue of dominance – feminists mostly do not agree that men should be dominant over women, and say that male dominance is just product of patriarchy that learn men to be aggressive and dominant and that man oppress women that way . You say that male dominance is natural, that women like it, it is necessary for healthy relationship and men protect women this way. In reality, both is truth in some extent. You offered a lot of arguments for your claims, but no doubt historically men often did not treated women well so the feminist critic is justified. The key is to find a balance and be willing to understand the other side. You can say that you basically try to respect female need to submit (in a good way) and that you agree with the feminist critic of dominanting women in the bad way.

The tricky issue with gender differences is that they were used as a justification for exclusion of women from doing certain things. F. e. women were not allowed to vote because they were considered not rational enough. Women were discouraged from doing sport because people believed female body was too fragile for sport. Women were discouraged from pursuing higher education because of their expected caregiver role (as my grandmother was) or leading positions at work. Etc. All those arguments are wrong – women can do all those things, if they are interested in it. That is why many feminists epmhasize similarities between both sexes, there are good reasons for it. The key is to find a balance, again.

I believe that although the feminist interpretations and solutions are sometimes not reality correct (and there are some men haters who call themselves feminists and others who see feminism too much as a religion), feminist‘s concerns are mostly legitimate and in many ways you have common ground with them, maybe your ideas are compatible with some kinf of difference feminism.

It might be an article topic. 

Thank you and sorry for the length.

Anonym

Anonymous's picture

Thank you for outlining a lot of the overlap between pick-up and feminism! It's so important to recognize that the two are not diametrically opposed, rather they are both continuously evolving. There is no reason why they can't evolve in unison.

Motiv's picture

"This is one of the inconvenient truths for feminists: a man who can make a girl orgasm can also make her change her mind."

— Chase

I am pretty proud to tell that I can vouch for this statement first hand now. Feminism is more or less a moot ideal to me—if a girl experiences the thrill of being swept off her feet and shagged to satisfying orgasm, feminist or not, she pretty much turns into normal girl at that point (at least with me).

A truly die-hard feminist is to me just a woman cutting herself off from the joy of being feminine—one way or another, even those girls tend to wander (discretely) into the arms of a man who can make them feel like a happy, submissive girly girl.

Personally, I revel in this territory: getting a stubborn feminist to experience the joy of submission, which in turn brings me the joy of being truly dominant—we part ways, two very happy people (until she asks for more). :)

-M

She enters your world… not the other way around.
Tweak your way to the top ;)

Masculio's picture

"Once a society is wealthy and safe enough, and women no longer need the support and protection of men..."

This is a contradiction. If a society is wealthy and safe, how did it become like that and what is sustaining it?

Most people in military and police are men.
Most major companies are owned by men and majority of taxes are paid by men.
Most charities are funded and controlled by men.
Most child support and alimony payments are done by men.
Most scientific discoveries are done by men.
Most people in highest political positions are men.

How can you say that women don't need men today? Wealth and safety exist because men are around.

Life of an average single mom in a city today depends more on men than ever before.

"...they begin to struggle with those men for increased power within their society"

Who is 'they'? Lesbians (a vocal minority) promote feminism as a weapon against men. "Don't objectify women", "Everything is rape", "Street harassment", "Diversity" are all tools to transfer resources from productive companies (that are taxed) to non-profit/government organizations where these feminists tend to work at. Lesbians like women and attacking men is a way to increase their status and get women.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Masculio-

Well, yes, of course, a woman’s independence depends on the society created, defended, and maintained by men against other groups of men (and their supporting women). Within that society though, a woman achieves a certain degree of independence. We are at once all dependent, and all independent, depending on what aspects you look at.

Every political movement that exists is led by a handful of outspoken, and usually extreme, individuals. However, it’s helped along by support from the individuals it represents. The extremist lesbian feminist leaders would never get much traction if women actively disliked what they represented, took issue with it, and opposed it. Instead, as is often the case in politics, a vocal minority brigades a silent majority.

If at some point the majority turns and decides it no longer supports what that vocal minority pushes, it will throw its weight behind a new set of leaders, and the old ones will fall out of grace. You’re seeing this right now with conservatives in the United States; almost overnight, all the old leaders of the conservative movement have become branded as “cuckservatives” and been ditched. The majority’s decided it doesn’t support their leadership anymore, and no matter how vocal they are it doesn’t matter. The majority’s thrown its weight behind a new set of leaders who represent different priorities. This is how majorities wield their influence.

The fact that feminism arises in every wealthy, safe urban society throughout history implies this is not a fluke, and this is something women collectively push for under certain circumstances. Whether feminism is “good” or “bad” depends on where you’re standing, and perhaps whether you believe in creative destruction or not. Feminism is almost doubtless a part of the decline and destruction of a powerful civilization, but without that destruction you would eventually have stagnation / gridlock. When old civilizations become decrepit and die, they make room for new civilizations to take place and build on what those who came before them achieved. Feminism is just fulfilling its role in the circle of civilizational life.

Chase

HereNthere's picture

The religion mention is interesting. The modern feminism push seems almost indistinguishable from evangelical Christianity. You just replace a few keywords and it's virtually the same screed.

"sin" = "misogyny" (everything enjoyable is evil)

"original sin" = "male privilege" (the idea that you're damned from birth)

"Satan" = "the patriarchy" (vague, yet all reaching boogeyman responsible for all evil in the world)

"sex is evil" = "sex is evil"

Hardcore feminists are pretty much just an atheist form of Dana Carvey's Church Lady SNL character.

Also it seems more and more like thick, dark rimmed hipster glasses are the new Puritan Capotain hats and the mark of a joyless feminist. It's gotten to the point where I consider it a big red flag and simply avoid pursuing women wearing them (unless they really, really seem fun and friendly).

Dyed neon color hair? Deal breaker red flag. STAY AWAY

Author
Chase Amante's picture

HereNthere-

That’s a great comparison! And accurate.

I’ve long noticed the hardcore feminists aren’t freedom fighters at all. Instead, they’re prudes and busybodies, wagging their fingers and gasping when you say something they can’t BELIEVE you said. I can’t EVEN! Wow, just wow. They want to stick their noses in everybody’s business and tell them how to live their lives. The only way to deal with them is to tell them to buzz off, and that you’re not buying what they’re selling. And then they steam off mumbling the modern day equivalent of, “Well, I never!”

There are other modern religions as well. On the left, you have environmentalism, organic/vegetarianism, multiculturalism/equality, and globalism. On the right you have capitalism, meritocracy, tribalism, and nationalism. They don’t really seem like “religions” to their adherents; they just seem like “the truth”. But the other side’s belief systems seem like religions to them.

Chase

Drexel Scott's picture

Nice, balanced, solid article as always Chase. Personally, if a girl is vocal about feminism or finds "sexism" wherever she looks, then she's automatically relegated to the realm of only occasional spontaneous sex (if even that). I know it's kind of harsh, but the older I get and the more experienced I've become, the more I've realized how important it is to be able to respect the people you bring into your life and keep in your circle. I simply can't respect someone, male OR female, who wholeheartedly buys into spoon-fed media narratives without doing 10 to 20 minutes of research on what they're told. Fortunately, most women do NOT identify as feminists...but if I hear something about the "wage gap" or "institutional sexism," I'm going to loudly and pointedly debunk it right then and there. If they still believe in it after being exposed to real information, then I'm not going to date that woman or consider her a serious companion to my life. Great article, cheers!

Anonymous's picture

Hi Chase,

I'm confused as to why feminism is being portrayed as bad and negative thing for interactions between men and women. I don't mean the zealous misandrist perspective, because that stems from hate and is evidently destructive, but just the basic idea that women deserve to be treated with respect, deserve to be listened to, empathised with and deserve to be empowered rather than subjugated. It always seemed to me to be a closed minded perspective for men to reject or dismiss outright the ideas behind feminism.

For instance, why is it a bad thing to empower women, to help them be strong? I recognize that traditionally men have lead women, and that mentality is still pervasive. But the point is to envision a new kind of partnership where both sexes are equal partners.

I also find it strange that men are so resistant to listening to women when they talk about their experiences. If women don't like being catcalled or harassed on the street, then I don't see how it hurts men to listen to their perspective and try to understand, and then to change those aspects of interactions? Why would we keep engaging in these behaviours when women are outright telling us that they find them threatening? It's the same thing with having sex while under the influence. If women leave an experience feeling like they've been assaulted, there's validity to that interpretation because there's validity to their experience. Sure there are some women who will cry wolf for whatever reason, but I've known a lot (too many) girls who have had similar experiences and have had real, lasting trauma from them. As the ones who lead interactions and approach, we should be responsible for understanding that perspective and changing our interactions accordingly. Is it really worth putting someone through that emotional pain and trauma just to have drunken sex or call out to a stranger? When it comes down to it, we aren't really losing much by being more respectful and listening to women. It's just a shift in how we approach.

It seems silly to me to try to hold on to old ways of behaving and interacting that are becoming increasingly dissonant in this modern era. That doesn't mean men will have less success with women, it just means the interactions will be different. It's funny that you mention that feminism generates a combative relationship between men and women. From my perspective, an equal part of that combativeness arises from men's resistance to empathising with women and seeing how certain behaviours (e.g. catcalling) are perceived as threatening. It's like we're trying to hold on to old ways of interacting, rather than building a more positive future with the women in our lives. If women tell us they don't feel comfortable with certain things, why continue to dismiss them? Why not listen to them, empathise with them, be creative and change our approach? Where's the harm in that? I don't see it. I've never thought that pick-up and feminism are mutually exclusive. It just requires some creativity and new ways of thinking, behaving, and interacting. Imagine what a future that might be! Maybe women are silly and cute, but men are pretty silly too when it comes to this.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anonymous-

The problem most men run into with feminists is that feminists are fighting the patriarchy. Because you, a man, are part of the patriarchy, you’re also part of the problem. That means you must be lectured, retrained, and reeducated. Unfortunately, it’s somewhat difficult to be the sexy, powerful, attractive guy when you are also the chastened, corrected, and newly-minted sensitive guy. That’s the primary issue.

Much of what I teach with deep diving focuses on empowering women: you find out what she wants to achieve, and then you pick apart why she hasn’t done it yet. Then you encourage and inspire her to go do it. One of the mistakes a lot of men make in this arena though is they confuse self-sacrifice for encouragement. They’ll do things like take on more chores in a domestic relationship because, heck, that’s equality, and we’re modern after all. Or they’ll accept suboptimal relationship conditions (like putting up with a girlfriend who has little time for them because she’s so busy with her career) because they think that’s what they’re “supposed to do.” Most men don’t know how to empower women in a powerful, masculine way, and only seem to be able to do it by transferring power from themselves to the woman.

The discussion of “old ways” and “modern eras” is somewhat history blind; what’s old is new and what’s new is old, as history goes. Feminism’s come and gone hundreds of times (at least) throughout human history. A man may choose to embrace its tenets if he feels fulfilled by them, but this is a site for independent-minded men, where the message is, “Do what suits you, within the bounds of morality and responsibility,” and not, “Do what society mandates you do.”

(I don’t think there was ever a time when cat-calling was an effective mating tactic, by the way)

If women tell us they don't feel comfortable with certain things, why continue to dismiss them? Why not listen to them, empathise with them, be creative and change our approach? Where's the harm in that?

It very much depends on what you’re talking about here.

However, it’s crucial to bear in mind people often have little idea what they want. It’s true for both sexes, and women are worse at this than men. This difference was the basis of this article, in fact:

Why Cold Approach Works Better Than Anything Else

I can tell you from personal experience, almost every fight I’ve had with a girlfriend is about something other than what she says the fight is about. If you spend all your time bending to accommodate the issue she claims is upsetting her, you will waste a lot of time and be very confused to discover she’s even more upset the next day. Instead, with women, you must read between the lines – and take everything a girl tells you you need to accommodate her on with a big chunky grain of salt ;)

Chase

SZ's picture

Chase,

1. After learning so much from this site I've become a new person.

the problem is that I don't want my old self to come back. it's like I'm having a good time, then out of nowhere it's like my old self comes back.

For example whenever I face a problem my mind goes back to my old way of thinking, I end up my old self, now matter how much better I get, I remember people who used to be better at me in things and my mind drifts back to what I was before, I want to stop that.

2. Most importantly, I know everyone says to not care what people think, we all do to an extent.

I want the people who grew up with me to accept the new me. it keeps creeping in my mind that they won't accept it, they'll think I'm an imposter. They love bringing up the past and I want to change their minds forever. I'm not talking about friends; just people I know. I want people from back then to take me seriously and know I'm not to be played with.

I want to solidify my new-self, I want to be it 24/7 and not an imposter, I want people for years to know it's the real deal, respect me, and treat me as such.

My new-self is strong, confident, muscular, tougher, stronger mentally, better with girls, cool, smooth, a totally new better person.

How can I do this Chase?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

Check out this article on mindset changes:

How to Overcome Depression

On old people viewing you old ways, I couldn’t tell you. Haven’t dealt with it personally. Aside from close family, I only have one friend I’m still in touch with from college, and I hardly see him anymore. I don’t know anyone from before then. When on occasion I do meet them, it’s just weird, because I’m so different and they’re still the same.

If you really are quite different from your old self, it might be time to change cities, or build a new circle within your current one.

Otherwise, you’re dealing with already-set precedent… and that’s really hard to change. Everything I know about it is here:

Reversing Poor Past Precedent with Girls You Like

Chase

Nick The Greek's picture

Just wanted to say thank you!

I read this site for a couple of years and helped me so much to better understand women and of course to be a better player and a better man.

You remind us how simple is life if you know what you are doing aka have a strong solid and masculine personality.

Greeting from Greece,

Nick

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