Are You Trying Too Hard? Stop Trying. Start Succeeding | Girls Chase

Are You Trying Too Hard? Stop Trying. Start Succeeding

Chase Amante

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Trying Too HardA reader writes in to ask about trying too hard:

I haven't seen any posts yet by you about a particular subject--neediness and trying too hard.

In fact, I just read one of your posts "What regular men don't know" where you are a proponent of making yourself into an attractive man and getting better with women an obsession.

Personally I have had a few different people tell me lately that I'm "trying too hard." I don't know what this means. Without trying, I will get nowhere. At first I thought they were right, but now I'm thinking they were just jealous I was trying to change when they weren't.

Could you write a post on this inner game issue? What does it mean to "try too hard" and when does getting better with women become a bad thing? How do you make sure to keep consistently trying to get better without having people tell you you're trying too hard?

Or should I say screw 'em and keep on doin my own thing?

I was speaking with a former student of mine about this a few weeks back. We'd talked about him tweaking a vibe he gives off, where it feels as though he's trying a bit too hard. He wasn't totally aware of it, but he'd heard it from multiple people and he asked me if I could put my finger on it and help him figure out why he was getting that kind of reaction from people and how to get around it.

Honestly, trying too hard is one of the most difficult things to explain to someone, and one of the most difficult things to stop.

But I myself was guilty of it for a long time once, and since there's some interest in the topic, let me take a crack at explaining what this is, and what you can do about it.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his One Date System.



3rd Millenium Men's picture

An excellent article, containing information that's often overlooked. Trying too hard tends to be from doing a lot of external things, without achieving inner mastery. Hence why what you were talking about as a King and caring less is so important.

This was also a related concept to my recent encouragement of men to flake on girls and care less about their interactions. Because when they do, they give off less of a sense of neediness, and get a better idea of when girls will actually come back to THEM.

Keep up the good writing.

Chase Amante's picture

Hey 3MM,

Flaking first is an interesting gambit to run... what you'll notice is that it makes women MORE likely to show up when you finally do get the first date scheduled, and also a lot more likely to hit the hay with you. It drums up your scarcity a good bit... also beats most women to the punch (a lot of Rules girls want to flake first to up their own scarcity, but their game is jarred and emotions take over when the tables turn).

Even more than getting a handle on your own neediness, I think flaking first just does a solid job of putting guys in the driver's seat who otherwise wouldn't be. Here's hoping your readers see some good returns out of it.


Knight's picture

Hey Chase,

this article was really interesting and exactly what I needed as I'm completely revamping my life at the moment - mostly thanks to Ricardus and you. One of the hardest things but also the one that I'm working on the most is non-verbal communication so I can follow the law of least effort (I don't want to become a criminal, haha) and I'm aware of what is called the pregnant pause, however, when should I be using it? And when do you yourself employ this? I believe I can apply this to all communication that I take part in.

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Knight,

Believe it or not, I have an entire article on here devoted to the pregnant pause already! Here it is:

Tactics Tuesdays: Using the Pregnant Pause in Conversations with Women

Especially look to #2 to get an idea of when to use pauses depending on your style. For me, because I'm more deliberate, I use it to break up thoughts or conversations and build intrigue. e.g.,

"For me," [pause], "I use it to break up thought or conversations..." [pause], "... because I'm more deliberate."

This is especially when making a point I want a woman to pay attention to, or if I want to slow things down and regain control if she's acting uppity or arrogant or she's started sniping at me. It's amazing how effectively a few pauses mixed in with some sideways glances to the right (e.g., you're thinking as you pause) can be at calming things down and returning the advantage to you.

Don't overdo this or you sound like a robot, but do use it liberally. You'll need to test it out and use it a bit to get your timing and calibration down just right.


Knight's picture

Thanks Chase,

I find applying this advice is really helping myself become a better person.
I wish you all the best.

Walls's picture

One of my favorites, Chase! Good stuff as always. I love the inner-game and social stuff, thank you for you in-depth analysis on these things. Anyways, I usually play contradiction police, not to challenge you, but to gain better understanding of your curriculum myself. So here's two I noticed:

"You're trying to be funny when the moment isn't quite right.

Or you're trying to show how much you relate to someone when it's not necessary"

I read in a different article (I forget which one) that being funny and taking things as a joke (example, waiter getting the order wrong) at moments where it's unusual to do so makes you seem... more in-control. Relaxed.

And when is it not neccesary to be relatable?

Any ironing out would be helpful, thanks!

Chase Amante's picture

Howdy Walls,

Worthy questions.

On humor: you usually don't want to call attention to others' mistakes (have a laugh at their expense), as it makes you look petty / like a social ladder climber (e.g., you're attempting to profit off the individual's mistake to elevate your own status). You basically position yourself as middle class; e.g., the waiter makes a mistake and the alpha-wannabe dude says, "Guess they decided to change my order for me!" The dude who's actually a super alpha just ignores it or reassures the guy it's fine and asks for the order to be corrected in a calm, firm, but non-threatening way, or he just tells them not to worry about it if it's something he'd eat anyway.

On relating: many people make a show of how much they're relating. Not only can this seem forced, it also defuses a lot of tension, letting the person know where you stand. It increases comfort and familiarity at the cost of power and intrigue. You want to do a little of this, but not too much. The guy who stares at a girl thoughtfully while she tells her story, with no other indication of whether he's following along or not, then makes a profound comment when she's finished, is perceived as far more powerful and respectable than the guy who nods and "mmm-hmm"s the whole time through.

Think of humor and relating as spices to sprinkle onto your interactions, rather than mainstays that need to be mixed in in generous portions like most people try to do once they become "aware" of them (as opposed to the people who don't realize they should be using humor or relating to others at all).


AR's picture

Hey Ricardus, I love the concept of the king mentality. But in previous posts it's mentioned that one needs to be persistent as well, and I struggle to understand how to find the balance... What's your paradigm when you persist in a way that is non-needy? I'd like to understand how to find that balance.

Killer post by the way.

Chase Amante's picture

Hi AR,

It's a fine line to draw for a guy who's still struggling to grasp it... I've talked about persistence some in the past in posts like:

... and Ricardus has posts up on it here too.

Best way of thinking about it is this: imagine you're playing a game of basketball (or tennis, or chess, or any game). You've got a move you REALLY want to make... and you're trying to make it. But the opponent is defending against it. But you still keep trying, and trying. And maybe you get it, or maybe you don't. If you do, you still get a boost of, "Aha! Got it!" and if you don't, you still get a bit of, "Ah, drat," but it's not THAT big of a deal and you don't get overly needy about making that one shot or capturing that one piece. It'd just be nice, is all.

That's the attitude you'll find is most effective with women. It's almost impossible to get without getting a fair amount of field experience under your belt; if you aren't meeting a lot of women and pushing things to get ahead, you'll struggle to achieve this.

But you can still be aware of it and do your best to emulate it. On the outside, it looks like you're very cooly and calmly and casually but persistently insisting that the girl come along and join you. On the inside, it feels exactly like you're trying to make that shot that's being guarded against, or capture that piece the other side doesn't want you to capture.

With enough field experience, you start not caring about the outcome of MOST of your interactions, and it's all in good fun after that. Occasionally you'll meet a girl who really does it for you and gets you excited, and you'll feel a little neediness creep back in, but you just remind yourself it's all part of the game and that there are plenty more women out there just like her, and it dials back down again.


student of the game's picture

hi chase i have been taking large bites of all the info. on this website and to me this just what the doctor prescribed :)anyways my problem is that i am currently in senior in high school that is about to graduate so far so good.but the thing is i went to school in an country in Africa that was all boys so i am not really use to girls,i mean i don't know how to make them my friends or give them the wrong message i mean i use deep diving to find about thier dreams and goals but that's about it.even though i am over 6ft2 i dont play any sports in that school.i don't know how to make friends boys especially girls.i mean when ever i am in a conver. with a girl we talk about college,work,school,etc. but how will i try to be intriguing with my background since they will know from my name i am not from around her and how can i boost my confidence in socializing back up and how can i make my conversation less of something that looks rehearsed? i mean if i try to make every girl my friend then suddenly i want to make them my girl i cant just drop contact because it will seem weird and as if im cold.what can i talk to girls that i want to be as friends about contrary to those that i dont i mean what topics.and how can i boost my confidence back up. apologies for rambling but this distrubes me everyday im clueless dont know where to go thanks for creating this website and i am looking forward to your reply:)

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Student,

Of everything in your comment, this part's the most telling:

"i mean if i try to make every girl my friend then suddenly i want to make them my girl i cant just drop contact because it will seem weird and as if im cold."

I was plagued by this kind of thinking for a long time, and it's actually a core part of trying too hard that I didn't cover in the article above.

That aspect is: caring more about what others think than about what you want.

A lot of this comes from not knowing exactly how others will react, or from being sensitive yourself and projecting your sensitivity onto others. e.g., you'd be offended if someone suddenly dropped contact, so you figure since you wouldn't like it very much if someone did it to you, you certainly shouldn't do it to them... because heck, they might not like you.

One of the key things you'll find newer guys struggle with is that their goal is "get girls to like me" instead of "get a girlfriend" or "get a girl in bed." And the problem with "get girls to like me" is that doing the things necessary to get a girl as your girlfriend or lover risks having her not like you.

So so long as your goal is "get girls to like me," you'll always be trying too hard to please, and not trying hard enough to get what you really want - which is lovers and girlfriends.

Best piece of advice I can give you here is to realize you'd rather have 2 lovers and 8 girls who hate that you cut them off from being their cool guy pal than to have 10 girls who like you as their platonic friend. You only have so much time and focus, and if your time and focus is going to women that aren't a productive use of that time and focus it's effectively lost.


Walls's picture

This really resonated with me, and I think it's something I've been doing wrong since... ever. Ever since I can remember I've cared more about what others think, and have projected my sensitivities onto people (I guess I'm just really polite, sensitive, a bit introverted). But I'm really working on it. Any more tips on how not to project these sensitivities, and maybe something on being an extrovert while naturally being an introvert? Thanks Chase. That might be the breakthrough for me!

Denis's picture

Hey Chase,

I would consider myself as something inbetween an unknown and a King right now, if thats even possible. I got the mentality ever since I started reading this blog, but I've just been having problems projecting it out to others, like confidence and all. It's really frustrating and when you add the fact that I live in a new country where I struggle with the languange when hearing other people and I can't make the conversations as interesting and make people invest as much as I would in my mother tongue. Do you have any advice on that? (Other than perfect the languange, I'm on it 24/7)

Another thing is what you said in your article. That the Unknown should become a Jester before becoming a King. Why is that? Why not just become a King and not have people remember that person as "the guy who used to be introverted and now clowns around too much?"


Chase Amante's picture

Hi Denis,

If you knew me in high school, you'd probably have described me as "somewhere between Unknown and King" too. The problem that the Unknown has in getting "known" is that he's not accustomed to putting himself out there much, so he lacks the reference points to be able to accurately gauge how much to do so, and he lacks knowledge of where the limits are (which is what the Jester is learning as he transitions from Jester to Peasant). Without knowing the limits, you can't run up to them and get the maximum returns, which is what the King is all about - the King knows the minimum and maximum thresholds for the energy to put out.

Essentially, it's about building the intuition on how much is too much, and what's the right amount of effort you need to put out there to accomplish any one thing in the most efficient way possible. You might be able to figure out a way around it, but as far as I've been able to tell you've simply got to go through the fire of trying too hard before you're able to really come out on the other side getting maximum returns for minimum effort in just about anything you do.

One note of reassurance though: you don't have to be a Jester in everything at once. You could be a King in smooth talking women, but a Jester in approaching, for instance. And still be an Unknown at physical escalation, on the other hand. If you bite off one bit at a time to really run your gears at and try hard to build up your reference points and intuition, you'll be able make headway in your skill sets without feeling like you're trying too hard at everything all the time.


Anonymous's picture

u helped me feel better about being a jester hopefully i can evolve into a peasant :D

jfsryker's picture

Hi Chase,

I'll just say that I have little sense of humour so I thought it would be better for me to present 'myself,' more which is a little quiet, a few smiles and pleasant. I avoided humour because it does show as trying too hard often. However, that would make me close to 'shopping man,' material/too passive.. So recently, I actually just played the 'serious,' card and came across as intimidating. This girl who turned down my attempts to ask her out was just playfully chatting out with a less edgy, younger guy.

So exactly what am I doing wrong here? Appearance and smarts are the least of my concerns.

I should meet more women.

G's picture

Do u reccomend grabbing girls' asses when u hug themMaybe it depends on the situation but it would be helpful to hear.

Timothy Tabor's picture

My gf always says i try to hard it pushes her away. And sense she told me this i can tell shes less interested in me and our relationship! can i still get her back to where we use to be?

Kaelos's picture

Give some examples of things you do/say where she immediately says that you try too hard.

Rojo Loco's picture

Hocum. I try less than everybody- doesn't do anything for me.

Just a dude's picture

I couldn't figure out why is it when i try to amp up being funny, expressive, relatable, overly touchy, the girl always want to eject the set or outright reject me? But the time i have been successful, ive been pretty meh about the interactions, usually to girls i didn't find attractive. And then there was other times i had no expression and was doing nothing, those were worst because she'd be rude about rejection usually.

It was so apparent to me that there's this fine line in game that is about being either come across too desperate or too indifferent, and there's a fine line between the two. And to get good with girls, you have to find the balance. That's probably one of the most important things to getting girls imo... girls just assume sooooo much about desperation. Every little thing they're screening if you're desperate for them or not. If you are desperate, i find you might find a girl 1 out of 100 who will pity you and actually go out on a date with you and possibly sleep with you. This shit is NOT easy lol..

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