Spotting (and Avoiding) Cluster B Women

This is a great article on a topic that needs to be addressed more frequently. The only critique I have is that the idealization/devaluation cycle is indeed a borderline personality disorder trait but not a schizophrenic trait. Schizophrenia is an entirely different and more severe mental illness, usually characterized by auditory hallucinations.

This is such a topical article! I spent my last 2 days wondering what happened with a girl I met recently. Can a girl be Cluster B if she only showed the last symptom? While she didn't heavily push-pull me, from the first minutes of our first date she complained about how boring her life is and how she cannot find a remarkable man in her life and how all men leave her once they "don't get what they want". My first reaction was a latent flattery; you really feel like a candidate who is not like the "others". And this feeling is even more appealing when the girl is hot.

I went on 4 dates with her. On the 4th date I called her out on her taste in men; "Did anyone else choose these abusive men other than yourself?"... To which she smiled cunningly and said "Well, I didn't know they were abusive at start". At the end do the same date, I also refused to pay for the 4th time her drink and she got passive-aggressive. After that, I tried to find her and with difficulty I met her. She told me that "a gentleman must pay for all outings" and that "I wrongly mistook her for a provider because being a provider is different from paying for just drinks" and that "if we disagree on this, there is not much to say".

1) Is this Cluster B behaviour? 2) Do Cluster B women cut you off once you refuse to play on their terms?

Thank you

yep, Cluster B personality disorders are a real trap. Not only in form of dating but generally speaking you see this in manifestation of 'attention whoring'. More women are diagnosed with Cluster B and perhaps we can see why.

One thing to watch out for are the girls who you have expressed no interest in actively 'wooing' you through the methods described often simply because they are trying to put you in the beta orbiter/friend zone. It is tempting to think this may be some sort of progressive modern woman putting her foot forward in the dating scene, but you must watch for the signs. And they get very snippy when you don't fall for it so make sure to keep an appropriate distance.

Perhaps you could also comment regarding the distinction between this and clinginess/neediness? Where is the line between clinginess and Cluster B?

Interesting article, I've been wondering lately if the girl I was dating had some sort of personality disorder. Sometimes she was very submissive and coy but at others dominant and challenging. I thought it was because she was testing me though or that I was acting like a pussy. Usually when I was strong she was nice so I wasn't sure. But if you look at her pictures she seems like she has so many different personalities and identities. One picture like a cougar, one stuck up, one submissive, one sweet and coy, one just a chill girl etc.

Any of this ringing a bell or is that normal for a girl? I know many women don't fluctuate emotions at all and act the same and look the same in pics all the time.

A much needed article although I was lost after you listed out then three types. You didn't use those types again so I am very confused. Your explanations also don't make sense to me... Which type does which thing and you try to explain why they do those things but they do not make sense to me. I guess you could say crazy girls display these crazy behaviors so watch out for crazy behavior but otherwise I feel this article was poorly written. Thanks though still appreciate it.

This is such a good post, and I really wish there were more on this site like this.

If you had up the "supposed" statistics on percentages of women that have these disorders, you have a pretty sizeable part of the female population that can completely fuck you up, if you don't have your stuff straight.

But there's the thing, we're only talking about "fully diagnosed" personality disorders. If you look at what it takes to be a diagnosed Borderline, for example, you need to meet I believe 5-6 out of 9 points to be considered a full "borderline".

But what if you don't meet all but half of those requirements? Same goes for the other disorders. I'm sure plenty of women out there have plenty of these systems, act out with the same types of red flags, and naturally have low self esteem...a bottomless pit and emptiness inside them that you can never fill no matter how hard you try...yet they will do their best to convince you that it's your fault.

My point is...I don't know what percentage of the female population has many of these traits without having a fully diagnosed disorder, but I'm sure it's a big one. Which is why I think more needs to be written on this.

Party girls may mess you up, but girls like these will turn your life upside down...especially if you're inexperienced.

And not to jump on Drexel's response to you, But sam2, you should have known right from the beginning...any girl that says right off the bat that she's bored with her life and how all men leave her etc etc...is a BIG red flag. No emotionally healthy high self esteem woman would say that to you, which means she's probably an emotional less, and very likely low self esteem (avoid these girls as much as you can).

And her blaming you for not buying a drink and becoming passive aggressive? Another huge red flag, passive aggressiveness by itself is a recipe for disaster (but you won't know until later), but she's just looking for any excuse for you to chase her and give her validation while she acts the way she wants.

Whether this particular women is a full on cluster B or not doesn't matter. The fact that you even have to wonder whether this behavior is something you should tolerate or whether she would cut you off means you have to work on yourself, your own values, and your own boundaries more than worrying about her.

In the future this type of thing should make you laugh and easily walk away (and watch her probably chase you later for attention), if she sees that any of this behavior actually had an effect on you, it's only going to be worse.

Your gut probably already tells you the truth about these situations, you just have to get any neediness and approval seeking out of the way first.

Thanks again Drexel for going into detail about the Cluster B. During the breakup I sent my ex a message telling her that I felt that she both loved me and hated me and told her how she had a special talent for exploiting all my insecurities. You nailed it in the article: "So if you're with a girl who fluctuates constantly between loving you and hating you".

Thing is, I had already broken up with her previously 2 years before but she came back and later on she confessed that all her past relationships it was her exes who initiated the breakup so she was starting to wonder if there was something wrong with her. Guess what, she is right! It must be very difficult to find a woman whose exes all initiate breakup since it is usually the woman doing the breaking up.

I, on the other hand, previously had only had a very healthy and happy 8 year long relationship with a lovely girl which ended mostly because we had grown in different ways. Which made me also have all my walls down since hadn't been hurt before. Which was bad cos it led to being hurt deeper than necessary by my NPD ex.

I also was naive and didn't realise how the breakup had made my ex her bitter against me and waiting for revenge. She made me pay for all her built up frustration of all the past failed relationships when she got her chance.

She even slipped a confession in one of her last emails telling me that she was indeed revenging on me even though she had also said she didn't have much to reproach me. Torturing me was purely for sadism.

Also, a look at her friends can be clarifying. My ex's 4 closest female friends are all very immature for their age, very selfish, I have not known them having any stable or healthy relationships with men. The worst case, her new best friend, is definitely NPD, is also clinically diagnosed with bipolar disorder, has frequent severe outbreaks and requires medication. I also noticed since she met her new best friend is that her NPD traits became much more exaggerated and started doing very crazy stuff. Sometimes I wouldn't recognise her.

Her hobby was a fashion blog which fits an NPD pefectly because it's very self gloryfying and vain. She always showed a very idealised and distorted view of her life on the blog.

Her new boyfriend is a white knight saving her and probably has also a personality disorder. I met him once before it all happened and he striked me as being very insecure and with very low self esteem. After them dating for a few weeks he'd tell her she was "the woman of his life" and that "since she was so unhappy when he met her (because I made her unhappy, that is) he made it his task to make her happy". She told me all that stuff and I replied that that guy sounded like he was not quite in his right mind if he was telling her that after barely knowing her but she seemed flattered. I guess two Cluster B's can be explosive but they probably deserve each other instead of making two innocent people crazy.

After she dumped me she would still reach out poking me on facebook,commenting on my status, etc. So I had to unfriend her on FB and even then for two months she'd like some of my pictures that I had forgotten to set to private or like my comments on common friends' status. I have completely cut all contact with her with no interest in ever reinitiating it.

Everything you just wrote about can also apply to male behavior. You have described almost to a tee my last relationship. Why just direct this article to men? It works both ways.

In the early months of a relationship, the man I was dating confided to me that in his years working as a life guard and bouncer at a club, that he and a good friend of his had a bet on who could bed the most women in this one particular summer. He told me that half way thru the summer he has bedded 260 some women. He stopped only because his 'member' was giving him some problems....

Do you have any comments about a man like this? Should I have run at that disclosure? I stayed a year and a few months. When I ended it his love toward me to to instantaneous hate within moments. I then in his words cared only about "cock and money" and he fabricated the most heinous lies possible and initiated a smear campaign. Throughout the course of our relationship he displayed all the behaviors you have described. So if I say I have been "abused" in this relationship, would you say that I am the cluster B or he is?

Good article. One thing I think that needs to be mentioned, a girl's relationship with her parents usually defines her personality. These personality disorders are due to childhood abuse and neglect.

For the most part, I think the articles on this site are very well written and insightful.

However, as a medical professional, I am a bit disturbed by this writing. The cluster b women (which I will from here on call persons diagnosed with Cluster B Personality Disorders) should not be labeled lightly, These personality disorders can be very damaging and often require hospitalization for effective treatment. Really, unless you have substantial training in diagnosing psychiatric conditions, please refrain from applying these labels quickly (most psychiatrists often won't even use them because of lack of treatment for many of the disorders). Many of the examples in the article would not qualify someone for a Cluster B Personality Disorder diagnosis.

Although you have a valid point re labelling, but when it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...probably is a duck. In other words, I do not need a mechanic to confirm to me that I have a flat tire or a doctor to confirm I have the flu or a cold. These are rather self evident.

That said, when it comes to Cluster B's well I have found they tend to follow a script i.e. honeymoon phase, devaluing stage, push/pull and discard. Some utilize the damsel in distress (victim card), then naturally there is the lying and rewriting of history (even if you have the proof and show it).

Then finally, if you note, they never take responsibility. It is your fault. And if they do, it is just a pacifier, because they repeat the same behavior again and again. So without saying BPD or NPD or HPD specifically, they are Cluster B's to varying degrees. And those are huge flags. Without treatment, if really possible, then you are in for a life of a rollarcoaster. All relationships have their ups and downs, but this one is fast and brutal.

When you begin to question your own sanity and what really transpired, even though the evidence is on the table, well...good luck. I agree with this article 100% re Party Girls, Cluster B's. In fact the more you love them the more they hate you, and it is never about you and your needs. Treat them badly, play mind games, sure they will hang around, until they see through you and then you game is up.

It becomes a hit and run scenario. And you have been hit.

br T

Hi Guys,

I consider myself a very successful person - multiple degrees under my name and currently a practicing psychologist, speak multiple languages, own a couple of properties and overall I'm known as the woman that has it all.

However, I also have Borderline Personality Disorder. A disorder that was beyond my control. I did not ask for it and I did not encourage it. I did not even know I had it until well into my twenties. I have chronic feelings of emptiness on the daily, people I do not know usually intimidate me and alarms start ringing in my head. When a situation comes up that is slightly distressing, I can feel my mind getting ready to implode and go about it's unusual way of responding to judgement, abandonment, criticism etc. The internal pain becomes so overwhelming at times that I need other forms of pain (i.e. physical) so that I can stop focusing on the emotional pain.

But I have learnt that that is how I've become conditioned to respond to problems through many years of abuse from my father and brothers - being locked up in closets, beaten with belts, hoses, sticks until well into my late teens. Being forced into an arranged marriage to an older man, being raped over and over again. And yes, you may read this and think - 'she's exaggerating and the abuse is not real, it's imagined, after all that is the subject of this well written article'. Well I could not have imagined the photos I have of broken bones, bite marks and bruises and the numerous police reports. I finally ran away from the abuse.

And here I was thinking I was free, after all I had ran away from the very people who made me miserable. Little did I know that the misery would continue internally. I began to latch on to every man I met, looking for something remotely close to love and I would fall head over heels for men within a matter of days. Being attractive, fun and personable meant that I did not have a problem getting men but being 'borderline' meant that I had no idea how to keep them in my life. So I would have fling after fling and my world would collapse after the end of each one and I would feel all alone again. I ended up meeting the man of my dreams and again fell head over heels, this time though, I was obsessed. But luckily for me he was equally as obsessed. He saw beyond my many flaws - flaws that I could not accept. But these flaws began to make their way into our lives, creeping in and causing fights, accusations, extreme bouts of rage, verbal abuse towards each other. I did not know how to control myself and he did not know how to help me. But we were in love, we could not walk away - I certainly couldn't.
He had many chances to leave. And sometimes I think maybe he would have been better off leaving. But nonetheless he stuck around and helped me heal my wounds through years of therapy. He showed me love, affection and security. he reassured me everyday that this is our journey together as a couple not just my own.
Finally I began to realise that my extreme anger, my lack of a stable sense of self and my need to inflict self harm were ruining my life and that it was possible to heal.. it took me many years to realise that I needed help. I would have never realised it alone. If it weren't for my current partner who stuck by me for 4 years now through thick and thin, through every tear and every break down. He saved my life, he saved our relationship and when he went down on one knee and asked me to marry him, he made me the happiest girl alive.

A lot of people would walk away from a relationship like this and I can't blame them for it. It's stressful, draining, confronting and at times abusive. But if you really love her and she means a lot to you, then give her a chance, help her heal. You could save a life in the process. And I know it's not your duty to be a life saver or a healer but if the relationship is important to you then it will be very much worth it. My partner and I are the happiest we have ever been. We know exactly how to communicate to each other now. He knows when I am about to have a 'borderline' moment because I am able to communicate to him that that is the case and he can tell I am trying very hard to control it, more and more I am able to better control my tendencies. It's a daily struggle for me but I am getting better at it.

Anyway, sorry for the rant and I really hope this helps you see 'borderlines' as humans and not evil beings.

My journey continues on as I try to help people in my position :) hope I can make a minute difference to this world.

Preach love not hate x

19 Months I was with this rattlesnake. I'm on day five of NO CONTACT. Trust me, NC is the ONLY way to go. I've read all the websites and so many stories. Fits this chica to a tee. Every term I have seen, every behavior, I have experienced. My favorite is the night she beat the shit out of me because I questioned her about some guys she was texting. She erased the text strings before I had a chance to see. She then went on to rage at me because I ruined her Friday night. She punched me, kicked me, threw keys at me. Then she broke up with me and went out until five am. then she called me and I came rushing back.
I kept asking why I went back to her and my friends and family just shook their heads at my choice to take her back over and over. I felt ashamed and disgusted with myself everytime. I was starting to experience all the side effects of dating someone with NPD. I was having nightmares, lost a bunch of weight, chronic pain, hypervigilance, anxiety and low grade ptsd.
I just couldn't figure out what the fuck was wrong.
Finally, when I started reading about NPD I made the decision to go NC. I know, after breaking up and making up a hundred times, this time it will stick.
For real, If you end up with a chick like this, DITCH HER ASAP!!!!!!!
Listen to Kid Rock FOAD, and Eminem w/Brit Spears To Remember.
It's not your fault. People like this are out there. There should be a database for people like this.
I could tell so many stories about this NARC. But you Get It.
Thanks for the great article.
Peace.