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(3) Journeyman

Journeyman have been at it a while and have begun to develop major good habits and success streaks as practitioners of the social arts

Cognitive Dissonance and Upset Commenters

Chase Amante's picture

Somewhat less polished article than usual today... my computer's in the shop, so I'm having to put things together on a rather dated machine instead of my usual one.

A reader wrote in to give me a tongue lashing for being insecure, brainwashing men, and leading people astray - away from loving themselves, their soul mates, and God. Here's what he had to say:

cognitive dissonance

Hey Chase,

So I used to be on this site until I realized a few things. Firstly, you're a very insecure man who is brainwashing men into learning a 'skill' which they should not be learning. I believe there is a God-given person for anyone, and regardless of whether or not you think that is 'feel good nonsense' is up to you. A girl left you and because of that you felt like you needed to change. Ever think that maybe she just wasn't right for you? Ever think that you could find a girl who likes you for who you are, but you just got to be patient? Ever think that it's okay to be yourself and to want to be efficient and get things done fast only if you want to? Your website is based on complex logic-based ideological nonsense that appeals to vulnerable young and old men who have typically been through hard times with women and are looking for a solution. Sure you can learn how to make money, get the best body, etc.; we live in a progress-based society. On the other hand, when you are trying to teach people a skill, which is not yours or anyone else's right to teach, then that's crossing the line. Deep down, you know it's wrong, and despite the fact that it works (I can vouch for that), it's morally wrong. You don't need to sleep with women for them to stick around. Most of them will stick around, and you're right about that, but really think about what's the point of doing that. If a girl is meant for YOU then she will like YOU for the nerdy, efficient, intelligent, socially awkward person that you naturally are. SIMPLE. Chase, please give your head a shake, bro. I know what you're saying is true and works, I know if you get the girl to pay it works, I know chase frames work, etc. Please just take a moment and think 'Why would I want a girl who doesn't like me for who I am?' Don't fight your core self, try to change your voice, and who you are. Do it if you want, but the girl you end up with will like you for you. Marriage may not be a big deal to you, but it is a God-given way for 2 people who love each other to demonstrate that; you're just taking a completely logic-based approach, which is one that society tries to conform us into due to its progress-based nature, but if you know what's good for you, you'll take a moment and seriously rethink what you are doing, and get your insecurities sorted out, because you have some serious work to do my friend :).

All the best,
Former member

I have a pretty good idea who this individual is, because he routinely comes on here leaving similar comments. If it's the person I think, he's a guy who was very religious, then decided he was going to learn how to be good with girls, then, before he could actually get any experience with women, decided that being good with girls was morally reprehensible and that he should go back to being very religious again. I've nothing against religious people personally, but flip-flopping is just annoying.

If there's a God, He's probably pretty annoyed with it too. God and I are both annoyed.

I'd take the time to respond point-by-point here - except I've already done that, in this article from two years ago: "Just Be Yourself: The Worst Dating Advice Known to Man." If you're curious about my response to the line of reasoning espoused in the above comment, just read that article - I wrote it specifically so I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself every time somebody decides to challenge why anyone needs to bother with self-improvement, dating advice, treating yourself as your own greatest project and investment, etc.

And the morality issue - "You know it's wrong to teach men about women!" - has been previously addressed here: "Is Seduction Wrong?"

(also worth adding, for clarity's sake - I started improving myself with women when I had almost zero prior success with women and was alone and friendless, not because a girl "had left me," although this does seem to be a common origin story for men in the dating advice niche; and I score 35% on OkCupid's "How Insecure Are You, Really... Test," which you can draw your own conclusions about)

Anyway, what I'm actually primarily interested in discussing here is the emotional reaction - why do people get upset and feel like they need to go on a crusade to silence you when they know you don't think as they do?

Why is it about other people's ideas that make them so... frightening? I mean, they're just ideas... right?

How to Treat a Woman: Like a Queen, or Like a Whore?

Chase Amante's picture

how to treat a womanOne common stumbling block for men who are rusty or inexperienced is deciding how to treat a woman. Should you treat her unfailingly well... or should you treat her in some other way?

In fact - particularly if you're new, or around women you consider "out of your league" - you may find yourself walking on eggshells around women you like, afraid of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing and causing such a girl to lose her temper with you and storm off in disgust.

So how do you treat her?

You may have heard this pithy remark before:

You treat a queen like a whore and a whore like a queen.

And today we're going to examine how that applies to the women you meet in day-to-day life.

I see some fellas out there nodding in agreement with this statement; "Aye, that's the way to do it!" they're saying to themselves.

I also see some guys out there shrinking back in terror; "You can't possibly expect me to treat a queen like a whore and a whore like a queen, can you?" they ask, all the color running out of their faces. "They'll hate me! I want them to love me!"

As it were, there's a lot of knowledge packed into this brief phrase - but to a point.

In this article, we're going to break this mentality down, dig into the queen/whore dichotomy, and see exactly why treating one like the other can provide you a boost most men won't ever experience.

What to Do When You Meet Awkward Women

Chase Amante's picture

awkward womenA reader named Tomas asks the following about interacting with awkward women in "Spell Broken: Big Mistakes That Shred Conversation":

Just have a question. Some women do exactly one or more of those. They don't keep things light and/or stuck at topics and/or hold on to opposite opinions provoking debates and/or criticize... it might be even done unconsciously.

Sometimes she breaks the spell almost systematically and you cannot do anything. Those women may be attracted at first, but they literally undermine their own attraction to you. And I mean, not by your fault.

How should such situations be handled? If you persist, she loses all attraction. If you address the elephant in the room, she will be offended and sent into auto-rejection. In both cases, she will blame you for the result, not herself. Another option is just to disqualify her and run... Or is a better way?

I remember running into girls like this when I was still figuring out my approach with women exactly. It sort of feels like these girls have antibodies against connection formation. It's like they simply don't want to get to know people on an intimate basis.

Eventually I realized that they were doing the same thing I used to do back in high school - using humor and debate and topic-jumping to protect themselves from getting into any real, meaningful conversation... or any conversation that ventures too close to the personal.

Realizing this, I set about trying to get to the bottom of it - and to see if I could find a way around it.

How to Get Your Girlfriend Back: 3 Great Strategies

Chase Amante's picture

A little over a year and a half ago, I wrote an article on here called "The Ultimate Guide on How to Get a Girl Back." It fairly quickly became one of the more popular articles on the site, as getting girls back whose interest you've lost tends to be a common thing a great many men are all trying to figure out.

That piece also led to me getting a relatively constant stream of emails and comments and requests to write the post I'd promised, provided there was enough interest, at the end of it - a post on how to get your girlfriend back.

how to get your girlfriend back

Here's the latest request, from longerjt on the article about using scarcity:

Chase -

So yesterday I layed it out and challenged a girlfriend to get in or out and she slammed me. I said I needed to know where she stood and that I was ready to move on and bam! She said take a hike. Guess I misplayed it.

Hence, can you do the post you promised some time ago, "how to get your girlfriend back" in "how to get a girl back"? I could use it now.

Thanks for the great stuff!

JT

If you've been reading this site a while, you may have thought I was asleep at the wheel, or that I didn't care to address this question. A lot of people have asked about it.

But in fact, over the past 19 months or so, I've probably written a half dozen versions of this article. It's not that it's technically difficult to write... it's that there are certain moral implications in taking a girlfriend back, under certain conditions, that I feel it's important for men to understand, and it's also that I find most men trying to get their ex-girlfriends back are more concerned with what they want than with what their former girlfriends want (and need).

I think I'm in a place now where I can communicate this right.

So today, let's discuss how to get a girlfriend back - and who you need to be and what you need to be willing to do if you're going to pull this off.

It isn't always hard. Plenty of people get back together every day. But I'll be writing this for the hard cases - the ones where she isn't already knocking down your door for another try. So I'll be giving you some stuff that's tried and tested, that I've used myself multiple times, and that I've watched friends and students and mentees use effectively again and again.

But believe you me, if I find out you've used this irresponsibly and hurt some girl by being selfish, I will come to where you live and demolish you.

That out of the way, let's get on with it.

Booty Calling; or, Turning Phone Numbers Into Sex

Chase Amante's picture

booty callOver on the discussion boards, Stratvm discussed a phone number he'd grabbed in Switzerland while just passing through, and wanted to know how he could convert this quick phone number into a real booty call - how does he get this girl coming over for sex. He noted:

It would be nice to have a blog post on how to convert numbers to same day lays; now I'm just guessing how to proceed.

This article is going to be about two things:

  1. How to get a girl you've just met to respond to a "booty call"
  2. How to get into a booty call relationship with a girl you've already been with
  3. How to screen for the women who are likely to be open to booty calls

... and that last one's especially important. Not every girl is open to the idea of slinking over to your pad close to the witching hour for a late night slice of lovin'. Some women find the idea offensive to their sensibilities.

But the ones who are open to it... you may well be leaving them feeling a little less excitement in their lives by not going for it.

So here's how to pull a booty call off - and we'll begin with all the wrong ways men go about trying to get women over for some quality between-the-sheets time.

3 Ways Human Males Compete for Women

Chase Amante's picture

In "How to Talk About Yourself on Dates," a reader writes in to ask about dealing with male competition:

Hi Chase,

Awesome site and truly amazing articles. There was one particular topic I was searching for but couldn’t find it. It's dealing with experience. Since the days before I came across this site I was pretty bad with girls, I have had problems dealing with competition. As soon as there is competition from guys with slightly better game I am rather clueless what to do. It's like I lose all the energy and confidence and hand it over to the other guy. Since in a normal scenario (college or university pretty girls are mostly hounded with tons of guys) this is most likely to happen everywhere and you'll keep losing girls if you don't sort it out. I know the obvious choice would be to ignore the guy and just follow the ways explained on the site. But if there’s a guy with naturally good game aiming of the same girl in front of you I find it impossible to ignore the same. There has to be a way to get around it!!Would be great if you could help me with the same...

male competition

Dealing with other men competing with you in the dating arena can be a big headache. I certainly went through it during my learning curve - it's no fun to lose, but it's a whole lot less fun when not only do you lose, but some girl you liked clearly picks another man over you. In fact, it can be one of the most painful events you’ll experience.

So how do you deal with male competition - especially with men more experienced with women than you are? That's a tough nut to crack... and it's going to depend as much on your calm and your baseline fundamentals as it will on your "game."

Brain Hacks: Women, Emotions, and Cementing Emotion

Chase Amante's picture

women and emotionIn "How to Approach a Girl Wherever You Are (Easily)," J comments:

Hey Chase,

Another Great article you churn these things out left and right man! This one was so info packed I'm finding myself reading it again and again which is a great thing. One idea that was running through my head while reading this post was this concept of cementing emotion.

You mentioned it in your girls chase book but its a brief but very interesting section. I've always wanted to know how to deliver those "Wow what a connection we have" lines.

I was thinking about it the whole time I read this post, because I was noticing more and more that I'd get to step 9 or 10 and flame out there. Like I'd deep dive too much and "break the spell."

And I've been wracking my brained trying to understand what I was doing there but then I remembered your section on cementing emotions. So, I've been reading up on that and your spell broken article.

Would love to hear more thoughts on this man, it's a fascinating aspect of game. Because I've cemented certain emotions in women and have been fascinated with myself. Like WTF! where did that come from.

Anyways man just wanted to drop a line there about that. Maybe I'll add another to the list of article ideas with this one ;) hahaha

The Loyal reader extraordinaire,

JFav

Emotions are quick, fleeting things - here one moment, gone the next. What's worse is, emotions are easily forgotten things - a girl may be really into you one minute, but completely have forgotten she was a minute later. And once a feeling's forgotten, good luck trying to bring it back if you hadn't cemented it first.

To teach you the technique of cementing emotions in women's (or anyone's) memory, I want to cover a brain hack today that essentially serves as a memory aid for cementing emotions, so that you can help women recall good emotions they felt for you earlier, even if they aren't feeling them right now.

Conflict Between Men and Women in the 21st Century

Chase Amante's picture

Last week, I wrote about what's wrong with dating in America. I wrote it after being troubled when reading about the latest round of pettiness erupting into a media firestorm because of the "battle of the sexes"; at tech convention PyCon, a female employee of email company SendGrid heard a couple of male employees of game developer PlayHaven making juvenile jokes about the words "dongle" and "forking," turned around, took their pictures, excoriated them online, and PlayHaven fired them.

conflict men women

After the resulting firestorm, centering on this individual who had a couple of men with families fired for whispering jokes to one another in a conference, SendGrid attracted a great deal of hostility from the developer community (in other words, its customer base), and consequently fired the picture-taker. (You can read the full article here, if interested.)

That got me thinking a lot about where all the virulence between the sexes in the West has come from recently. You don't see it a lot of other places in the world... just here. Like I talked about in the article on bitter women, I'm not really so certain there are that many truly terrible people out there, as much as it is that the Internet acts as an emotion amplifier and makes it seem so, with its text-only, subtext-free, tonality-free communication making everything seem so cut and dry, black and white, and frequently making everyone sound so certain, absolute, and polarizing.

But as I thought about it, I realized there was something else causing conflict between men and women, too: a product of a mix of the modern unisex workplace and social environment, and the Western ideal of independence, but not at all what any of the women (or men) struggling for women's rights ever expected - that "equality," at least as most people have fought for it for Western women, has really ended up meaning that women are now required not only to fight with other women for what they want, but to fight with men now too - and that men are required to fight them back.

What's Wrong with Dating in America (and Much of the West)

Chase Amante's picture

I've been reading a lot of stuff lately about people frustrated with dating. It comes from both sides of the aisle: women who are frustrated that they simply can't find dateable men, and men who are frustrated that women are far too picky, and complaining there aren't any dateable men, when they seemingly just skip right over these all men who, on paper, meet all of those girls' supposed requirements.

dating in america

It's interesting to read. I researched dating and romantic history quite heavily for the relationship book I was writing last year (that I've since put on hold - I'm not in a position to effectively market another book just yet), and while a lot of male-female complaints are as old as time itself, I can tell you that this one - that there just aren't any dateable men, and that the women themselves are far too picky - is one I haven't encountered in the literature prior to the advent of the modern dating and relationship system in the early 20th century.

It's a whole new flavor of disconcert and disbelief.

Thing is, whenever you see people in disbelief at their inability to do or get something, it's a blaringly loud sign of a flawed mental model. They've got something wrong - their expectations are off. Fantasy isn't jibing with reality.

And right now, when you look at how dating in America and dating in much of the West plays out, you're seeing this wide-eyed, confused disbelief from a large segment of both the male and the female dating populations.

You don't hear about it from middle-aged folks. You don't hear women over 40 complaining much how there are "no men to date" - even though women at that age have far fewer options than their younger, louder counterparts. You also don't hear men over 40 complaining that "women skim right past them."

So what's going on with the under-40 crowd that's got everybody so addled?

Her Ex-Boyfriend’s Still in the Picture: What to Do?

Chase Amante's picture

A commenter on "Why Chasing Women Doesn’t Work" writes:

just over a two months ago i was intruduced to a girl by a couple i know, started off texting and getting to know each other. when we first met it was fantastic, got along great , we have met up every weekend since. As we have got to know each other a bit more and opened up to each other, she has a few issues with one of her ex partners who she left for stealing from her. (she was engaged to him )

she is in the process of talking to him again and getting her stuff back, but now i feel on the outer with her , hardly talks to me ect. i feel ive done somthing wrong i dunno, it all started great ,told each other how we feel , she stated she isnt ready for a relationship 'just yet', which i respect and kinda understand. I dont no if i should keep trying to talk to her or just give her a break and wait till she gets in touch with me .

Now, for this commenter's situation specifically of course, the problem's compounded by a lack of moving fast enough and attraction expiring. Those will cause the slow death of a potential relationship every time, ex-boyfriend or not.

her ex-boyfriend

But when her ex-boyfriend is in the picture, this is particularly exacerbated - because everything you have the might be good with her is less good, and everything that isn't the best gets worse.

Ex-boyfriends, in any way, shape, or form, are invariably bad news for any kind of relationship you want to get going with girls.