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A reader
recently contributed another comment to the article "When
Women Test Men." Like many of the commenters on that
article, he balked; "Why should I
have to learn how to deal with women's tests? Women should simply like
me for ME, and NEVER test me!"
In one way, I sympathize. It's no fun feeling like other people are putting you under a microscope, examining you, and that you're being inspected to see if you meet their requirements.
However, the element of learning how to automatically pass the tests you see from women - that's things like:
-
Her asking you loaded questions about yourself
-
Her putting up resistance to dating or sleeping with you
-
Her giving you drama in a relationship
... is more or less one of the key foundational elements, all boiled down, of learning "game."
And when you're first learning how to deal with tests, they can be hard, and they can be confusing, and they can make you feel helpless, and they are not a lot of fun.
But, is it perhaps possible to just skip learning how to deal with all these feminine things, and just screen for and get women who don't act like this?
Can you opt not to learn game... and still find success in mating and in life?
Comments
Long Term
Would a woman put a potential relationship on hold because its the wrong time or would most women take risks and be impatient or would she be paitent and wait? How would you know if a girl is saving you for later?
On Hold
Anon-
Yes, this happens. Women sock guys away all the time as "possibles." They do that basically if they think a guy MIGHT make good relationship material, but they just want to have fun with guys / hook up / be free right now, and that guy isn't suited for those roles, and/or they want to see if they can find something better than him, and don't feel any real urgency to lock him down. Women will do this when a guy is not all that exceptional or rare to them, and they don't feel much risk that he'll be going anywhere anytime soon (zero scarcity), or if he DID go somewhere, it wouldn't be any great loss.
A girl's saving you for later if she periodically checks in on you and is always really happy / upbeat, but otherwise doesn't do much to plan anything with you now or suggest that you meet. These girls will have you in their "check in from time to time" rotation, and if they ever rotate you into "actively pursue," you'll start hearing about how they want to catch up or how the two of you never do anything but you totally should.
Chase
hey chase please help me with this situation
Hey Chase, my gf has kept me on a temporary hold to the relationship we had. It was strange for me. As far as I know, there couldnt have been much wrong doing on my part. May be I feel I was too nice of a guy. I was the emotional support to all her problems. One of my problems was my distances from her, as I couldn't be in New york all the time. But after that temporary break she does the same things you have mentioned above, like checking on me once a while and sharing her problems with me on skype. She refused to meet me when I was in new york though, which kinda gave me a signal that may be she didn"t want me any more. Can you please help me how should I act in this situation and win her back or just let her go and not bother me as this hold in relationship and occasional texting via skype is really keeping me on the edge. I really like her and feel that the relationship isn't finished yet.
Great Site
This is the greatest site to learn about seducing women and being a man in general. This site helped me improve myself as a man. I went from a awkward guy to a player cause of this site! The first article i read was Law of Least Effort and ever since ive been hooked great website Chase!
Various questions
Hi Chase,
I've gotta say that this is one of your best articles on here. You're really good at the inspirational stuff. Did you learn how to preach when you were growing up? If a preacher could talk about girls and game, I imagine he'd sound something like this, lol. (You've even got "damnation" and "bright, shining souls" in there.)
"If you never take the time to learn game...you will forever live a life of unhappy squabbles and disappointed women."
Yee-ouch. Glad I'm on here and learning this stuff!
I have a few questions that I've accumulated over time on different subjects:
- Non-verbals while walking/sitting side by side: I seem to spend a lot of my conversations with girls in those positions (will add more positions later, lol). What's the best way to make and time my eye contact and facial expressions? A lot of the time we're just sort of talking out into the space in front of us, so all the important non-verbal stuff gets lost.
- Getting out of rapid-fire questions, reporter-style: you mentioned that one way to get out of this is to make a cold read (or in this new GC era, assumption). If I can't think of one, is there another way to get out of this? Right now I answer one briefly, make a little pause, then try to ask her that question back. But that's a bit dull, and sometimes she jumps in in the pause and asks me another!
- Facial expressions with men: which ones should I use? Probably not the cute and sexy. I noticed that mildly skeptical (not much smiling) works well for the dominant guys I know, so I'm betting on that one.
- Meeting a girl in a group of MY friends: this comes up a lot. If I'm in a group of my friends, and girl I'm interested in joins the group, how much should I talk to her? What kind of eye contact/facial expressions should I be giving her? I saw a dominant guy handle this - he basically occasionally listened in on the conversation and smiled sometimes, but didn't talk to her at all, and spent the rest of the time enjoying himself with his friends. He then talked to her one on one later when a better time came up.
Thanks!
Best,
The M
Rapid-Fire Questions, Facial Expressions, and Friends
M-
I did spend a lot of time in the church growing up. At one point, I planned on becoming a priest... until I realized that would mean I couldn't have sex. Then that plan went out the window.
On side-by-side nonverbals, don't worry about these too much. Just give her sly glances with wry smiles out of the corners of your eyes and mouth from time to time, and you'll keep a good sexual vibe going. Back straight, chest puffed out, chin parallel to the ground, of course; all these are things she'll detect from her peripheral vision.
When girls are rapid-fire-questioning you - well, one, that's good! They're very interested. But, yeah, two, if that goes on too long, they start to feel like they're chasing too hard, and can auto-reject. The best thing to do is get good at turning whatever questions they ask you right back on themselves; answer and then ask. This keeps the interest levels roughly equal so she doesn't start feeling like there's a value imbalance as she chases too much. That's like this:
Men and facial expressions - just go milder on everything. A nice calm facial expression with light smiling where appropriate and otherwise thoughtful looks are good for most occasions.
And the girl in the group - yes, that's exactly what I'd do, too. You want to largely ignore her until you can chat with her one-on-one and not worry about distractions or people peering in / keeping tabs on you. Talking to her in front of the group is just a great way of moving very quickly into a platonic we-talk-with-the-group vibe. If you mostly ignore her, it builds tension and intrigue, and when you talk to her one-on-one you can quickly set non-platonic frames with her.
Chase
Expectations...
As always, another great article Chase.
One thing I definitely agree with you is that people, be it your girl or your friends - continue to test you even after a solid relationship has been established.
When i first met my group I tried my best to be perfect. I had a different side. But once i knew they accepted me I became complacent which was WRONG on my part. Because, now I see a significant decrease in the amount of respect they used to have for me. My point is I think in today's time one can never be Complacent and still has to think before speaking, reacting etc.
Coming to girl, a friend who I feel I had quite the chance with but BLEW it by being clingy, weak etc. tested me a lot for the past 1 year. Not to boast, but as per my friends too, I maybe one of those few individuals who's been tested too much. The girl herself admits. She says "I know, I tested you a lot". I guess, since she was never into be (She rejected my proposal lol), she was definitely like those girls in your post about Getting Tested By Women, who simply loved testing men.
One point I would like to make is the point about EXPECTATIONS. According to my ex-friend (girl), I had too much expectations from her. She used to say, with no expectations, BOND increases. Was she right? Or is it all plain BS?
I have never been on the other side, but my friends (guys) get constantly annoyed when their girls ask him where he was, why they didn't reply etc. etc. Guilty... that I used to do that with her.
My apologies if I am disagreeing with your one point about Girls testing Guys a LOT if they like them a LOT, but its simply coming from my Experience.
Re: Expectations...
Tornado-
Yes, that is what you'll see. When a girl likes you and is interested in you, every minor mistake you make triggers tests, because she's scanning to find out who the real you is: the smooth guy, or the clumsy / clingy one. The end result of these tests can be that she breaks things off / turns you down, if you don't handle them to her satisfaction (or that she really comes to respect, admire, and feel strongly for you if you kick those tests' butts).
On no expectations furthering the bond - yes, I agree with this, to an extent. You want no EMOTIONAL expectations... but you should absolutely have rational goal posts you're trying to hit. Unfortunately, the emotional expectations don't go away until you're relatively experienced; there's no way to learn your way out of them short of a healthy amount of dating and relating.
Chase
Hello, Chase. I have a
Hello, Chase.
I have a question about this.
Is it better for us (men) to let women feel insecure with us and make her feel secure for a while when she is about to storm away to her security blanket guy friend? Or it is better to let her feel secure and sometimes just tell her something or do something to make her feel insecure?
I am open minded and I can detect when the girl is bored, sad, unhappy, worried about something. But I usually cant find the right way to fix it. I mean she is bored, I notice, but my plan how to make her feel better is bad.
Ah, and one completely different thing. People say not to agree with women, because you tend to be a nice guy. Thing is, I met one girl in class and basically everything she did not approve or did not agree with, I did not agree too. And I was like "ok, just because have same point of view, she will see me as every other nice friend and I will have no chance". Is there any way in this situation?
Michal.
Security vs. Uncertainty, & Agreement
Michal-
You normally want to err on the side of uncertainty, with periodic security boosts to prevent a girl from going too crazy in an insecure / unstable relationship. It should ideally be just insecure / unstable enough that she feels like she doesn't quite have control over you... this way, there's always something for her to chase after (boredom sets in once the prize is won and the game is over).
On agreeing with women - when you agree with a point someone's making but you don't want to give her too much, just give her this face, and nod your head up and down slowly a few times:
Chase
But he still got her
Another thought-provoking, well-written article.
I consider this article great mainly because it touches upon a feeling which crosses horizontally through the entire spectrum of manhood; beginners, intermediates or even advanced ones have wondered at times whether someone else is getting more by doing less. You see, the enemy of "least effort" is "zero effort" and personally I have asked myself whether my "hard work" in dating is actually giving me the results I want.
Despite all the shortcomings of the guy you mention in your text, Chase, my mind stuck at the fact that he landed a hot woman without improving himself. He is a free-rider. So, while for an intermediate guy like me getting a hot woman is a matter of playing the game of numbers (and after getting consistently 6s and 7s) hoping that the next hot woman I approach is not in a relationship, unavailable or single and flakey, the regular guy you talk about gets sex, validation, and social proof by your hot female friend. I can't help it...it feels unfair.
Anyway, what does a hot woman get from an otherwise unattractive regular guy in the first place? If she is about to get bored and dump him eventually why is she getting involved with him?
Boring Normal Guys with Hot Sexy Girls
Sam-
I've had some good conversations with women like this about their dating habits, and the responses have been different shades of the same color: basically, they assume that if they go for a higher caliber man, he's going to treat them less well than a lower caliber man will and hurt their egos. It's ego protective; despite seeming like they've got it all going on, they're auto-rejecting men who are more or less their "equals" as likely to be unsuitable mates.
These kinds of women - beautiful women with good educations and great careers, dynamic personalities, ambition, and lots of other plusses - are usually higher testosterone, and tend to have a penchant for being in control. Whereas most women enjoy submitting in a relationship with a strong man, these women fear submission. They will still submit when you get them in relationships if you are more dominant and emotionally unattached than they are, but the experiences they have with men like this usually end up driving home the point for them that it's better to stick to safe men than it is to go off with bad boys, who cause them the uncomfortable emotions of not being able to control their relationship destiny that, unlike most women, they're trying very hard to avoid experiencing.
Chase
A masterpiece
I think this is the first article anyone should read...
It really sets the tone and attitude to have.
You won't be able to truly absorb or be excited about all the other articles if you have that closed or skeptical mind.
This lays bare the growth process in such an inviting and challenging way, it makes you desire to become everything you can be.
We need to accept the tests and bear them with grace.
What a lovely seed you have crafted..... APPRECIATE YOUR TIME BROTHER.
Constant, status quo's - the things you know are the enemies of the things you don't... growth depends on nutrients - escape the loop you in, skip the track and go off road! Fertilizer feeds the soil, crop yields... increase from amount of toils. What's the spoils? Live rich happiness is our inheritance every moment worth cherishing. Give all that you can give because life anyway is a gift.
Agreed.
Agreed.
2 questions
Hi chase,
I know you say women want an attractive man, but what else do they want and what do we give them?
How do you know if a woman is cheating on you? What are easy early signs?
Thanks chase
What Women Want & Signs of Cheating
Anon-
On what women want aside from attraction, see this: "What Women Want."
As far as signs a girl's cheating... I'll add this one to the article queue to get a proper treatment on it up.
Meantime, here are some big ones:
A very noticeable drop in passion - it's suddenly just gone, and doesn't come back
A new coldness in how she treats you, and an air of disrespect and rebelliousness, as if you are the controlling parent she is sticking it to
A sudden aloofness and turning down your requests to meet up or cancelling existing plans, telling you she's "busy" or "tired" or "doesn't feel like it"
Her talking about some other man a lot, or, conversely, her suddenly clamming up about her life when she used to tell you lots about it
^ the more of those you see in concert, and the more dramatic they are, the more certain you can be of what's going on.
Chase
"It's no fun feeling like
"It's no fun feeling like other people are putting you under a microscope, examining you, and that you're being inspected to see if you meet their requirements."
I used to feel like this when I first started out with women, when I still had my entitlement mentality. I knew I was intelligent and smart and I could close. And I still have some residual disdain for tests from a purely philosophical standpoint. But that has calmed down dramatically. What was enlightening from an emotional standpoint for me was how I felt after having to interact with contractors and experiencing the fear of whether or not they'd deliver well. I responded by inspecting them to see if they met my requirements. And then I thought to myself, I wonder if this is how a woman (who wants to invest in me) must feel? Does she wonder am I capable of delivering what she needs? Am I strong, am I genuine, or am I another player (incapable of delivering what she wants). So I understand their skepticism, especially when so many men will say whatever they must say to get in a woman's pants. I empathize. It took me a while to realize that the behaviors of other men impacts a woman's skepticism toward me. I had to take a broader picture view of the puzzle.
Now, my subconscious mind expects for a woman (that has emotional investment) to test and probe. And If I really like this woman and STRONGLY care about the outcome, I take it as a sense of PRIDE to run my marketing muscle and wear her down.
But what has blown my mind is what happens with women that you say don't need any "game." They may be easier to end up with initially, but because of their experience and emotional detachment, (and perhaps hedonistic tendencies) they've tended (though not always) to also be the ones that also cause a whirlwind of chaos if you're not careful. Any ounce of perceived childishness or neediness or staleness and you're done. And if you think about it, they have so many male options that they can afford to act this way (unless of course you're a rare top-caliber man).
But when you think about it, they themselves need game too...if you're willing to put in the effort (or if you're bored). They're women and have feelings and emotions, just like the beginner/intermediate women.
So my question for you, sir, is how do the more advanced women (like your friend that you described in this article) respond to treating them like it's all a game to you, like you don't really care all that much and you'll be gone in a moment's notice if they piss you off...especially if you have certain orgasmic abilities and then they see other women flirting with you?
Advanced Women
Breeze-
Interesting comparison with the contractors there. Yes, I've seen that with hires too - differing levels of nervousness about desires to please, apprehension about how you feel about their work, reassurance if you tell them they're doing great, the explosive, resentful auto-rejection that sometimes happen if you have to let them go or tell them it isn't working out, or the begging / pleading / chasing they sometimes resort to too. All very similar to mating dynamics. Anything where multiple parties are involved and one party has something that the other party wants more than the first party wants what that second party has to offer play out this way.
The more advanced women will tend to take it in stride for a little bit, but then start getting an almost childish level of excitement around you, because you make them feel something that they're not used to feeling. Once you're in a relationship, they frequently will ask you outright to not hurt them, because they know that they're vulnerable and they know (from being on the other side so often) how big the gulf often is between what the submissive partner feels and what the dominant partner feels (the relationship's a really big deal to the submissive partner, and not such a big deal to the dominant partner, comparatively speaking). These women will tell you things like, "I'm jealous," when they see other women flirting with you - it's usually an unusual feeling for them, and it's rather surprising. Often the requests to not hurt them start after one of these incidents when they realize they feel jealous and that their emotions toward you are quite different than what their emotions usually are with men they date.
They often struggle against the relationship in the early days too, and try to break out of it, but ultimately aren't able to. It's kind of funny to watch... it's like they're a fly stuck in a cobweb, or perhaps more aptly a sabre-toothed tiger caught in a tar pit. They fight and fight and struggle and struggle... I think it's probably their logical minds, yelling, "No! We're the ones in control! Must get out of topsy-turvy situation!" but ultimately their emotions win out and they come back (with you not really having to do anything but wait for their will fall away and them to want/need you again).
Chase
Becoming new version of myself
Greetings, Mr. Amante.
I have a question disregarding the topic of this article. It is about friend-zone. I have moved on and as Elliott Hulse says am on a path to becoming a stronger version of myself. Now the question is: Once I get there or near the "my new me" point... Is it possible for me to attract this girl that friend-zoned me once I meet up with her and basically get another chance? Or is she going to see me as a friend again?
What I have in my mind: I will work out not to be a skinny noodle, my fashion is not that great so I get on that one too based on your article about fashion, I wear glasses, so buy contacts and I will focus on my goals more, drawing, creating animations, playing hockey and education (I am a college student).
My theory is, she will see my "new me" based on my new looks and will be curious about me, what have changed, while also remembering the good qualities I had and hopefuly for her still have. And remembering the good time she had with me "because I was different than other guys she has met" as she told me.
Second part of the theory, I will present myself in an opposite light in which I failed last time, ensure her I still have the kindness and honesty she liked and I eliminated most of the bad ones. and basically be a new person to her.
Now I dont want to change myself for the sake of this woman, mind you. It is just I am quite sure she would like and love my new me.
The question is based on if I can use her as a future prospect for my attempt of becoming intimate with her or any other girl that I am "just friends with"?
Thank you in advance for any advice on this.
Escaping the Friend Zone
Employee-
You can re-attract women who've friend zoned you when you take some time off from them and come back new and improved, but it's substantially more difficult than getting somewhere with a comparable (or better) girl you're meeting fresh who hasn't already pigeonholed you into the "friend" role.
I realize, though, that once you're emotionally invested and attached, there's a certain mystique to a girl you've plowed a great deal of time and effort into, and she becomes something of a prize to be won.
I'd suggest these articles for getting a better handle on the friend zone and turnaround process:
Also, you may just find that once you improve yourself enough, you may not be all that interested in this girl anymore... and may be too busy with other, newer, fresher women.
Chase
getting the ball rolling
Been reading your site for a few years.
My sticking point, and I think that of a lot of men, is the approach. Heck, I get rejected half the time just when I say hi, even if I'm not interested in the girl. Most rejections bother me for a day or two, and then they're gone, but I've had a few that scared me over the years by how nuts they were. Makes it harder to approach when I really do like one.
Some of the other posts talk about things like leading your interactions (vs just randomly interacting without direction), framing etc. It's one thing to read, another to see/do. Wondering if you could do a video post (be it move clips, youtube videos, or whatever) of good/bad approaches and break them down. I think if I knew better how to lead the interaction, I'd be more confident in actually pursuing it, as would a lot of other guys. Often, it feels like the title of the first pickup book I read, "stumbling naked in the dark"
Approach Videos
Limp-
I get you. Sometimes it's easier to just see someone doing something, then model yourself after that when you're out approaching, than trying to plow through it on your own.
I'll make a note for a video post, although I can't say I'm much of a video guy myself, and haven't seen too many approach videos I thought were all that standout.
One friend of mine whose videos I think are actually pretty solid is a guy named Mateo from Royal Flush Seduction - his YouTube channel is here: Royal Flush Seduction. Be advised it's all in German though... still, good for the nonverbals, gestures, leading, etc., and that's most of what the approach is really about.
I will say, too, that you'll figure this out if you dial up the number of your approaches - once you're doing 10 to 15 or more approaches in an outing, 2 to 4 times a week, rejection fades pretty fast as something you worry about at all, and you sort out the right way to run through an approach quite quickly. See this article for a bit more perspective on that: "Think in Numbers: Talking to Lots of Girls."
Chase
resistance do dates
Hey chase totally agree with you . And theres a similar situation that has propped up. A rather common one. You ask a girl for her schedule this week and a date and she typically says she busy this week so may be we should meet up next week. Now this clearly goes against your moto of moving fast . how should i respond in such a situation, should i just ignore ask for a quick meet before the next week or just wait for the next week and go at it once again. i know i would find the answer in one of your posts but am sort of asking specifically coz this exactly is my sticking point.
Date Resistance
Anon-
That's usually a sign she's not very interested - best to reply back with something that makes her have to do a little work to set up the date, that way she's either 1.) going to have to dial up her investment a bit and commit more to seeing you, or 2.) flake entirely, and not be a drain on your time.
A good reply looks like this:
She may or may not get back to you. If she doesn't, if you want more experience pursuing, you can call her on the phone and try to get her excited talking to you and wanting to see you again.
Otherwise, you can just move onto other women.
Chase
Every guy should read this.
Nothing to add but to say this article is great. I love these type of articles, really just skipping over the Bull we hear in our day to day lives and telling it how it is.
Great breakdown, great read... It struck a chord with me since I have a close friend I only WISH would read this right now... but he's just not open to the concept of the game right now.
I hope this is appropriate...
but I just wanted to say that the way you ended that article was badass. Well. Done.
Relating
Hey Chase, I have just finished re-reading your dating younger women article(s) and have a quick question on relating.
Particularly on relating to younger women. I know you said towards the end of the article that older men, whilst they can sleep with and date younger women should really be looking at women 27+ when it comes to full on relationships, so that the two people involved can properly relate to one another.
For sure being able to relate is a huge thing in a relationship imo, but could you expand on just how much age really does have an effect on how well we relate to one another?
Its always been something i've heard people talk about (you get the whole 'ohh why is he dating her hes way to old how can they possibly relate') when people talk about certain relationships, but i've always found it a bit of a generalization. I mean I talk to many people way older than me and a fair bit younger in my job and a lot of the older people I really get on with and have good conversations with etc. We share similar hobbies, outlooks on life etc. A lot of time the only real difference I feel is just simply the fact that they've lived longer.
Sure I get guys 30+ not wanting to date 17,18,19,20 yr olds perhaps, because many of them are emotional wrecks and just in no way fit for actual relationships. But I feel above 21+ people are just so different and unique in their outlooks, goals, opinions, hobbies, experience, maturity all of which I don't think are specific to age at all. Apart from experience maybe... But even then you get some old people who have experienced and seen next to nothing in their many years.
Its a funny thing. What do you feel is the best age-gap for a proper relationship Chase?
Relating and Ideal Age Gap
Anon-
I'd be speculating on what an "ideal" age gap is for a relationship; I really don't have enough data there that I could give a valid answer. I will say it seems to be better for the man to have at least a few years on the woman though, to avoid some of the "Who's the boss?" power struggles that inevitably arise among a lot of younger man / older woman couples.
As far as the maturity that comes with age, it's something you can't get your head around fully without experiencing it. When I was 10 years old, I thought there wasn't much difference between everyone older than me and myself, although there appeared to be a HUGE difference between those younger than me and myself.
At 20, a 10-year-old could be smart, but his life experiences simply did not stack up to mine in many ways, and his arguments appeared tremendously idealistic and unrealistic. I, however, had arrived at a much more realistic point of view, I was now sure; something comparable to those older than myself, no doubt.
At 30, a 20-year-old looks incredibly idealistic, and when I have conversations with 20-year-olds these days I frequently get told "how the world is" based on inherited views and faulty logic that, to the 20-year-old, seem to make complete sense, because he or she assumes that everyone else of course holds the same assumptions. Why wouldn't they?
I have little doubt that at 40, I'll look back on my 30-year-old self and say, "My, I was profoundly naïve in so many ways that I did not even realize at the time."
Your smarts and personality are more or less the same throughout your lifetime. I can remember specific thoughts I had even as a very young child, and my mind worked then the same as it does now. Younger you is, at his very core, the same as older you.
However, the younger you go, the more of your mental model of the world is inherited from books, parents, teachers, television, and plain old assumption.
The older you get, the more your view of the world is forged through hard, personal experience, which has usually either popped the idealistic bubble you had about something, or given you a much deeper, more nuanced understanding of the thing than was possible with only the comparatively superficial overview the mind gets from acquired, but not experienced, lessons.
(For a specific example, one of the huge, really standout examples of the differences between someone in his or her 20s and someone in his or her 30s and someone in his or her 40s is the level of social confidence and social awareness - to me in my early 30s, just about everyone I meet in his or her early to mid-20s seems to be bumbling his or her way through socializing like a clumsy, inept, accidentally rude individual, or working very hard to not appear inept, but still having it seep through. By the time he or she hits the 30s, a new level of calm and aptitude has crept in. Once the 40s swing around, he or she has moved into a kind of Zen-like, unshakeable knowing - at least, from a 30-year-old's perspective. To a 70-year-old, I gather, those in their 40s still often seem like babies who are overly impulsive and idealistic and still have a lot to learn)
Chase
Reply
Hey Chase.
I just want to ask you about a situation.
I already posted in another article but forgot which one.
Anyway, in that post you gave me some links, which i read and understood to drop the girl and move on.
But i was wondering about a solution IF something happens.
Now this girl likes me, but keeps me as a backup, flaking and stating she is busy everytime i ask her out.
Now you said to drop her and move on, which i will do.
But here is the catch: WHAT IF a week or two later she calls me and asks me to meet her?
I see 2 possible scenarios:
1) I accept and seem to easy to get - thus making her attraction maybe decrease
2) I decline, stating i am busy, act aloof, flake - just like what she did to me.
Now in the 2nd scenario what are the chances that she becomes frustrated or bitter and than goes cold and stops communicating with me?
Or what are the chances that after me being hard to get she starts chasing more and more ?
Basically i am asking what is the next move IF she calls me 2-3 weeks later asking me out ?
She likes me, but keeps me as a backup and than when she decides she wants to date me, what should i do ?
( this is a question for all the future situations i end up in so i would like to know a solution, a play, a next move )
Thanks again.
Always pleasure reading your work.
Regards.
Alex.
When She Comes Back
Alex-
If you're dropping a girl because she's been wasting your time, and she returns, you can meet her, but it must be on your terms, and it must be very convenient to you.
Some women will realize they've lost an orbiter, and will then try to get him back on their terms, so that he is then back firmly in the backup role, chasing and pursuing them, and giving them the feeling of security they need again so that they can now go date the sexy guys without having to worry about whether there's a safety net waiting for them if things fall apart.
When she comes back trying to meet up, it's best to either tell her to come to your place, or to meet you somewhere just outside of your place (and highly convenient for you, and that you like going). She's either going to say "no", in which case, good - you've just screened out a girl who was only interested in having you do things on her terms (that is, you be her friend and wait for her, while she chases down other, more exciting, less tamable men for sex) - or she's going to say "yes" - in which case, she's now changed her tune and is willing to invest and chase after you. So long as you can continue to escalate her levels of investment without changing yours, you can then take her to bed and keep her on as a girlfriend or lover if you choose.
Chase
Quick two questions
Hello,
If I move too fast, do I still have a chance? I mean in whole process, move her, invite home.
If she likes me a lot, just does not like my "speed", is she going to try to signal me she is ready to move forward by stronger signals?
I am asking this because moving slow is being dead basically, but moving too fast, can it harm my chances?
Moving Too Fast?
Someone-
If a girl really likes you, moving too fast will never hurt your chances, unless you're not listening to her at ALL... even then, it's hard to do. Instead, it usually just ends up being exciting for her - especially if you are smooth and poised in how you move her fast.
If a girl likes you a lot and you're moving too slow, yes, she will signal for you to pick up the pace, but not loudly or aggressively - about as aggressive as most women will get is saying things like, "I'm tired," or asking you, "How far away do you live?" or saying, "Well, I should probably get going I guess."
Depending how socially attuned you are, these may seem loud and clear, or they may soar right over your head - you need to be paying a little attention.
Chase
Chase, Could you give your
Chase,
Could you give your definition of "vibe?" I sort of understand it from context all over the site, but I'm having a hard time explaining it to a friend. I've read most of the articles and Im still a little unclear on exactly what vibe is.
Thanks!
Vibe
Dave-
Sure. "Vibe" I'd define simply as the feeling people get around you.
A guy with a cool vibe is someone people are around and say, "Yeah... that guy's COOL."
A guy with a creepy vibe is someone people get around and say, "Whoa, let me get away from this guy... he feels super creepy."
A guy with a sexy vibe is someone people get around and say, "Man, this guy just OOZES sex appeal."
It's a gut-level feeling created primarily by your nonverbal fundamentals (posture, eye contact, smile, hair, fashion, facial hair, any preselection or social proof you have going on, conspicuous consumption, movement speed, sprezzatura and effort levels, etc.).
Chase
"Red Pill" Digestion Issues
Nice article Chase. I have a very confusing problem now. I have been reading a lot of "red pill" work lately and while I'm seeing the authenticity in what they are saying I still feel somewhat confused.
By me reading this works it feels at time that im just vomiting what I read on those sites. I think maybe to me not having at much life experience as the majority of men on those sites(I'm 17) are older than me. And due to weak reference points to not having dated lots of women, traveling, proper socialization etc.
What I'm suspecting to be a main cause of this is that im reading the works of men who ingest the "red pill" on a daily basis and I know majority of what they say is correct by my mind has no personal experience with these factors and circumstances .
I kind of repeating myself here, but what I mean is like a guy keeps reading about implementing absolute abundance in his life and he knows that this is correct and the way to go. But conscious, subconsciously, and unconsciously he has no real way of proven that he those tips, tactics, idea etc are legit.
So wouldn't the cure to this be getting as much first-hand experience as I can?
Thanks
Getting Experience
Anon-
Yes - experience is the only thing that changes minds most of the time.
You can have someone tell you, "Running a marathon is really hard!" but if you think marathons are easy - it's just running! And running is easy - no amount of arguing is likely to change your mind, until you go run a marathon and wear yourself out around the 13-mile mark. Then you'll sit down and see, "Geez... marathons ARE hard!"
If you're reading a lot of stuff that isn't gelling with your preconceived notions, there's an easy way to find out what's right: go test it out, multiple times, and find out whether things go as you previously thought they'd go, or as the things you'd been learning said they'd go.
Those digestion issues go away pretty fast as you stack up real-world experience.
Most of the people you see fighting against people giving experience-based advice, incidentally, are people who have little to no experience in a given area themselves. e.g., people who say, "Game doesn't work!" tend to be women (who've never had to figure out how to pick up a woman as a man in their lives), lonely men who've been on a handful of dates and talked to not many more women their entire lives, etc., rather than men who've stood up, gone out, and tried the things they're hearing about with 100 or 200 different women to see whether they can make them work, and whether they work better than the alternative, or not.
Chase
Hey chase great post Can u
Hey chase great post
Can u please do an article on being cheated on. Namely the signs and how to recover
Signs of Cheating
Anon-
Yes - I have it on my list already, in fact.
Chase
Admiration
Just wanted to say that this post is masterfully done. It's both inspiring and maddeningly persuasive.
Kudos from a debater
Thank you Chase!
Thank you for this life lesson...These are the most powerful words I've ever read on this site. Thanks!
The world's a really dark, difficult place for those dim, closed-minded souls determined not to change to give to those they want things from the things those others want. They are forever chasing after wisps they can never have, because they refuse to be or give what is required. They want only to take what they want, and give what they want; other people's wants and needs not considered.
But for those bright, shining souls whose minds are open to the learning of whatever must be learned to attain that which they desire to attain, the world is a place of inspiring, limitless choice, bounded only by the drive of the individual to learn how to do what must be done and the will to become what must be become.
There is much to ponder here
Hi Chase,
I must profess, this site makes for a very compelling read and it is quite enlightening with regard to the subtle underlying dynamics of attraction, even if there are a number of regrettable home truths housed therein that I had hoped were untrue; however, experience and intuition often suggest the contrary.
I find that one of my biggest intrapersonal struggles is that of my relationship with the idealist dynamic. I have always been an idealist at heart, something of a dreamer; I grew up playing video games, working on writing assignments, addressing the world in a very pensive and philosophical demeanour. By all accounts I was, and continue to be, very unrealistic, in that I continually experience a conflict between the way I feel is innately the most natural and comfortable - the way I feel things "should be" - and the way my experience of the outer world and mainstream society suggests they are, which is often in contradiction. That is to say, many of my intuitive presuppositions are correct however at the same time it doesn't stop me from wishing that "things were different".
The female friend you mentioned in your opening post is quite honestly sickening to me. You say that she is not a bad person; however she seems very selfish and largely unconcerned with the emotional and mental states of those around her. I have little doubt that were the professor to find out about her dating history, his idealised view of her would be shattered, and he would be highly despondent over having been misled in this way. However, the emotional attachment would make it, at that stage, very difficult for him to simply cast her aside. This is something I have difficulty with myself.
During school, I largely withdrew from the relationships arena because I felt most of the girls there were neither intellectually nor emotionally mature enough to warrant the investment; and I know that as a sensitive person at heart I was unwilling to risk potentially permanent or long-term damage when the prospect of payoff was so dubious. That isn't to say I'm not physically attracted to girls - by all accounts my sex drive is largely undifferentiated from more conventional and assertive types, but I have difficulty involving myself with people without becoming emotionally attached too quickly - which often not only serves to kill attraction but also plays havoc with my head as well.
I struggle, at this point, I suppose, with the degree to which I must redefine my expectations with regard to what is realistic. I would be very uncomfortable becoming involved with a woman were she to have had a promiscuous past, as much like you have said; I believe the people we were in the past are a large part of the people we were today - one need only trace the path travelled to see how we have grown since then. It's difficult. My values are very conservative by nature, though I am not religious; substance use and sexual promiscuity are by their nature huge turn-offs to me - which is not to say that I don't have an adventurous spirit, either - just that it is more likely to be expressed in terms of romanticism and creativity.
I understand the importance of owning one's own direction in life in addition to maintaining a certain degree of mystery in order to propagate feelings of attraction... but I also believe it is subtly manipulative of anyone, men or women, to misrepresent their intentions, and once I find out that people have done this to me then I find it very, very difficult to respect them. I need to respect a woman and feel challenged by her - one who is both secure in her identity but also compatible with me - to have any degree of substantial interest. This does nothing to stave off the sexual frustration, though... the reconciliation between one's biological imperatives and one's deeply embedded personal values feels like an impossible struggle somehow. This is all a bit of a moot point as I'm pretty unstable and hurting myself, and not really in a position to maintain a long-term relationship with any woman - but at the same time it doesn't seem to stop me from wanting to learn, grow, and reconcile the inner conflicts somehow.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. They're very interesting to read.
In need of advice
Hey Chase I've been reading your articles for quite a while and this is your best piece yet! I knew I needed to make changes in my life with women and glad i ran into this site for help! I insist on getting better results with women and have a few questions:
Lately I've been going out and trying different techniques I've learned from your articles about approaching girls, talking to them, moving fast, etc. Unfortunately while in conversation for about 5-10 minutes or so with girls i just meet, she decides to get up and leave and politely tells me it was nice meeting you and walks away. It's happened a few times lately and I'm in desperate need of help of how to keep them engaged where they don't walked away before i get her number. Am I not moving fast enough, being interesting, or controlling the dynamics of our conversation?
Also, when everything is going well between a girl and I whom i just meet, I still struggle with cold feet when it comes times to get her number and she ends up walking away never and i never see her again. I know she likes me and I like her but I still put on the brakes and not end up asking her for her number and setting up a date. What would you suggest to help me get over being timid? And should i get girls number just for practice sake even when I'm not interested in her? I'm a pretty attractive guy and there's no doubt in my mind that i should have better results with women. I just get scared around women even though I know that their just cute and silly! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for what you do Chase.
Hello chase, I'm in a wierd
Hello chase,
I'm in a wierd situation and I'm not sure what to do I met this girl through a friend once and like a week later we matched on tinder and I've been hanging out with hefor about a week or two and she's really cool but she always comes over with a friend and we basically just hangout and sometimes I get stuck and don't know what to say and I was wondering if you could give me some advise on how to move forward and get to be more than friends
How Much Should I Learn on My Own
Everything I've learned on this site so far works and is changing my life. Basically, I'll read something on here, use it to succeed at a certain point, fail at another point, then read about how to succeed at the point at which I failed. Then the cycle continues.
When I reach a shortcoming, I'll brainstorm a bit on how to fix it, but I don't attempt my own solutions; I find a solution here because it works and I get results faster.
It's been great, but am I too reliant on the material? How much should I be learning how to attempt something, analyze results, and deduce how to improve all on my own?
Good Article
Good article, but the title threw me at first.
What you are describing I would not personally call "gaming".
How is this girl in the article a good person?
Chase,
that statement about your female friend who would cheat on her bfs while in monogamous relationships made me stumble. Through reading your material i've come to know you as a man who thinks high of honesty and so do i.
How is a person who abuses the trust, time and emotional investment another person has put in them in such a hurt and disrespectful way a good person?
Especially taking into consideration one of the fundamental principles you teach on this site, which is not to hurt a girl and stay out of monogamous relationships if you're not up for monogamy.
- wardog
Good Person or Not?
Wardog-
Well, it's a subjective value judgment, one for which everyone's standards will be different.
For instance, an American soldier who enlists in the military of his own accord (not conscripted or forced) and goes off to war in the Middle East. For some people, this guy is a patriot, a hero, and a very good person. For other people, this man is a monster, a murderer, and a very evil guy. Whether he's a good guy or a bad guy depends on what they value.
For me, if you talked to me 10 years ago, and said, "XYZ person was in a monogamous relationship, and cheated: good person or bad?" I'd have said, "Yeah, bad. Of course!"
However, since then, I've been on the receiving end of this, and (not so intentionally) been on the giving end of it, in one way or another, other times as well. I've also had a bunch of friends serve as both givers and receivers. And what you eventually realize is that there are very few 'bad' people. Most people are trying to do good, and if they hurt someone else it's accidental - they didn't think it through properly, or didn't fully realize the impact their actions would have.
I've met a few legitimately bad people - folks who know full well the harm their actions cause, and either do not care, or even get a kick out of it. After having known folks like this, it becomes pretty impossible to see regular people who hurt others by accident but dislike doing it or having done it as 'bad people'. I've known former drug addicts who've done terrible things to get a fix - when they're sober, they feel terrible about it, but when they're in withdraw and willing to do whatever they need to do to get another hit, they'll still do it. So are they good, or are they bad?
I suppose it depends on whether you define goodness/badness by intentions or actions.
If intentions, that's the classic "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" scenario. Good people do bad things. Good people are sinners. And just because someone is a good person, doesn't necessarily mean you want them in your life in XYZ role (like, girlfriend, for instance), because maybe despite their goodness, in that one area they just can't control themselves.
Or, you might define someone's goodness by actions, instead of intentions. This would be the kid who secretly wants to murder everyone in school, but in fact he never does anything bad and always follows the rules. He has horrible intentions, but never carries them out, making him, behavior-wise, a much better person than 98% of his peers.
I think there are some people who define goodness exclusively as good intentions + good actions, which often ends up being based on a more idealistic view of the world. Or, they pick and choose what's good and what's bad - cheating on a test is bad, but hitting and killing a pedestrian while driving and talking on a hands-free device is tragic and possibly preventable, but not bad (for the record, I don't consider either of these "good" or "bad" - just things that happen / people do. Though one is certainly sadder than another, yet also usually much more accidental).
In any event, I'm an 'intentions' guy. I'll still screen for actions, because who wants to date a girl who can't control herself and sleeps with guys while in a supposedly-monogamous relationship, like my friend? ;) But because she doesn't go around intending to sleep with other people, and even tries to prevent herself doing it (but can't much help herself), I don't view her as bad for having done it.
Instead, perhaps you might say she is a good person, who has fallen from the path and sinned.
Chase
Thanks for elaborating
Hey Chase,
thanks for elaborating. I would consider myself to be on the intent side of things, too and you're right, the more one thinks about it, the more complicated it gets, what is good and what is bad can really be very subjective.
But I think in the case of your friend, she has done it several times, so she knows the outcome, she knows she is badly hurting someone who trusts her and it is impossible that she isn't aware of that while she is doing it.
Nonetheless she keeps doing it. Do it once, depending on the circumstances, you could write that of as an accident, but doing it over and over again, when you know better from previous experience, that is adding insult to injury, no matter the circumstances. I agree though, that doesn't necessarily mean she is a bad person in others aspects of her personality.
- wardog
Single Life
All this complex testing and games by women are to much when I'm trying to choose someone share share the joys of life with. I will always love women and nothing other than. But maybe relationships with them is not for me. And if it's not with women, it's nothing at all period. Being single maybe is better anyway. I'm aim to be completely non-bais and to respect all, and being makes it a little easier. ✌
What happened?
Did he marry her? Did she cheat on him?
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