In my article on sexual awakenings, Wallflower left a comment wanting to know how she could help a guy to drop his Madonna/whore complex:
“Just a question for the ladies ;) How would you get a guy to drop his M/W complex? Is it possible? What would be the strategy here?”
While I touched on the M/W complex briefly, I think the beliefs that frame the current Western feeling on sexual expression, particularly where women are involved, is something that is worth further examination.
To help rid yourself of your sexually limiting beliefs and any vestige of Madonna/Whore complex, a perusal of sexual lore through particular historical examples can be massively beneficial.
Learning about it will bolster your skills with women by helping you to set liberal sexual frames with genuine conviction and an understanding of why they work.
Additionally, gaining a more objective understanding of sexuality can also be of great benefit to any relationships you find yourself in, monogamous or polygamous.
And as stated in my previous article, a relaxed attitude to women's sexuality is something that is crucial to help any girl to a sexual awakening... so that the both of you can have mind-blowing sex.
Madonna/whore as a psychological condition was originally identified by Sigmund Freud as part of psychoanalytic theory; Freud hypothesised that the M/W complex comes into being because a man experiences the affection he held for his mother with a woman he now sexually desires. In particular, this is brought forth if the male has a cold and distant mother during childhood.
There isn't really one strict definition for the M/W complex. But generally speaking it involves a male perspective of women's sexuality that entails him reserving sexuality for "bad" or "dirty" women, and sexual expression for “whores”, or women of (assumedly) poor moral standing.
The impacts on his behaviour with women is he'll put them into two camps of behaviour:
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The one worthy of being his girlfriend is the “pure”, sexually repressed woman (though he may or may not see her as sexually repressed; he may view her simply as “not like those girls”), though he frequently has trouble being sexually attracted to her, because he views her as more of a matronly figure. Men frequently shift their wives into a “Madonna” role (if they weren't in this already) after she's given birth to their child; she is now a mother, and no longer an object of sexual desire. Inexperienced men may also fantasize that women they're infatuated with but not dating or intimate with are pure “Madonnas”, and can feel horrified at seeing other men treat them sexually.
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Meanwhile the other camp - the woman who has the attributes of the “whore” - is unable to be respected, and thus not suitable for a relationship... but this woman IS the object of his (sometimes guilty) sexual desires.
In contemporary society, M/W has moved away from its psychoanalytic background and become more closely identified as a socio-cultural phenomenon, rather than something born of a developmental idiosyncrasy in males.
To understand Madonna/Whore complex more fully, and any contemporary Western frames dealing with sexuality, we have to look at the whole picture from 10,000 feet, rather than entrenching ourselves directly in the dogma of this particular time and place.
Where Do Repressed Ideas of Sexuality Come From?
The ideals informing our view of sexuality are steeped in Judeo-Christian notions of sexual morality. These ideas about sexuality went furthest in their repression of women (compared to men).
The Judeo-Christian traditions have typically seen the lust associated with sex as a vestige of original sin. In the eyes of the church, sex was only venial (a sin that does not deprive the soul of divine grace) if it was between a married couple and was carried out without an inordinate amount of lust.
Essentially, sex wasn't really for pleasure. It was simply for pro-creation, and anybody who indulged in sex outsides these terms was said to be sinful to the point of damaging his or her ability to enter heaven.
Religious canon also stated that any bodily fluids excreted during sex and left outside the body were unholy.
Here is a New Testament excerpt that sets out the Christian guidelines for sex:
“Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: 'It is well for a man not to touch a woman.' 2 But because of cases of sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except perhaps by agreement for a set time, to devote yourselves to prayer, and then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 This I say by way of concession, not of command. 7 I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has a particular gift from God, one having one kind and another a different kind." (1 Corinthians 7:1-9, NRSV)”
... and it's quite similar in Judaism and Islam, too.
This is the sexual foundation upon which we've built. One of marriage,
monogamy and abstinence.
And as you can see, we've come from a pretty repressed background.
While the recent secularisation of Western society and the sexual revolution of the late 1960s has seen a lot of these antiquated ideas about sex fall away, we still live in a society pervaded with the Madonna/whore complex that admonishes promiscuity or polygamy.
It is still informed by this religious underpinning that monogamy is intrinsic and that polygamy and promiscuity are sinful, particularly for women.
But how does this stack up with other cultures?
Historically, we've had the whole gamut of societal configuration as far as it comes to sex. Monogamy, polygamy, homosexuality, etc.
Suffice to say that viewing the current situation in a historically objective way shows us that our views on sex and sexuality are simply programmed into us according to the current trend and have nothing to do with a 'true morality' of how things should be.
As a good counter-point to current Western society let's talk about a small ethnic society located in South Western China known as the Mosuo.
The Mosuo, or Na, have sexual practices and ideas surrounding relationships that couldn't be further from the current Western norm.
After a girl's coming of age, she is allowed to have what are called “walking marriages” with any men she should choose to invite to her room. The woman controls who comes and who goes and no sexual relationship results in the pair taking up residence together.
The concept of marriage as we know it is totally abstract, with children being raised by the mother and their uncles, rather than in a home consisting of a married mother and father.
A women can have between 40 and 50 partners in a life time, which with a population of only 40,000 is nothing to be sniffed at.
The women are completely empowered to do this by everybody in society, such that there is no 'slut-shaming', so promiscuity is not seen as a bad thing.
You wouldn't have any problem with trying to sexually empower a Mosuo woman or worry about her social reputation if you were to have casual sex with her.
There are all kinds of anthropological reasons why cultures like this, which are more strongly associated with the sexual-societal model of our hunter-gather past, have come about, but that's a little tangential.
What I want you to take away from my example of the Mosuo is that the idea of 'slut-shaming', like what happens when an individual propagates the M/W complex, is entirely a societal construct, and has nothing to do with our nature as humans.
This means it's up to you to mitigate the shame if you want to get into a sexual relationship that disregards society's present norms when it comes to sex.
What is 'Slut Shaming'?
I've touched on 'slut-shaming' above, but have not yet elucidated what I mean by it. It tends to mean exactly what is connotated by the phrase: that a woman is shamed for any deviation outside the accepted norms of women's sexual behaviour.
'Slut-shaming' and the M/W complex are linked in that the M/W complex is the primary reason that a man will castigate a female for expressing her sexuality, but is a different concept because women are also involved.
Women tend to 'slut-shame' as a means to diminish the standing of the sexual competition and/or because of sexual jealousy.
Why Do We Still 'Slut Shame'?
If the Mosuo don't do it, then why do we?
Now, I don't think we should be too down on ourselves. We are living in a relatively liberal time given the last few hundred years; we should be thankful that we don't live in a time like Victorian England (they sometimes use to go as far as covering up table and chair legs lest they excite people).
The question of why we still 'slut-shame' is a difficult one, but I think it can be attributed in no small part to our societal penchant for the belief that monogamy is intrinsic. As well as the patriarchal nature of our society.
Encouraging monogamy in a society also encourages a sense of ownership. It also sets a level of expectation that may not match with the reality, so there is a cognitive dissonance between what we expect and what often happens.
Obviously this expectation of ownership gives rise to all kinds of jealousies and insecurities that may play out as the revulsion we see directed at 'sluts'.
If, as a society, we were to set our expectations of relationships towards non-ownership and polygamy, 'slut-shaming' wouldn't exist like it does now, as is evidenced by the Mosuo people.
Anyway, I'm happy for you to disagree with the exact reasons why I think 'slut-shaming' is so pervasive still; what's important is that it's still there.
It'll probably be around for a long time to come, whatever the cause. The important thing is that you notice it and attempt to operate outside it.
It'll be a boon for your relationships... and your ability to get girls.
Now to what Wallflower has asked: how to get a guy to drop his M/W complex.
To do this as a woman, you have to possess a sexually liberal mindset yourself... which I'm assuming you already have.
If you're seeing a guy who has a particularly strong M/W frame in his head, then it's something that can be pretty difficult to dislodge.
Though you do possess the power of sexual persuasion, which is going to be really helpful in getting your man to open up.
Unfortunately, if you start telling a guy with a M/W complex how girls (implicitly, you) should be allowed to get wild, etc., he's going to get pretty threatened by that.
Guys' sexual egos tend to be a whole lot more fragile than girls. A
man's
always going to be wondering whether you did it with somebody else,
whether he's adequate, and so on and so forth.
I'd start by probing him on his fantasies, like we discussed in the sexual awakening article, the only difference being that as a girl you shouldn't share yours first as a means of creating comfort, as again it can be quite threatening to a guy's ego and his M/W complex.
You should ask him about his fantasies honestly, and gently push him if he doesn't want to give them up.
Once you've got one, suggest trying it. He'll definitely warm to the idea if it's a true fantasy of his.
To mitigate the M/W complex in his head you can set a really strong frame that'll help out. The frame is:
I would only do this stuff with you.
You can slip that frame in a number of ways, but essentially that'll cater to his sexual ego while mitigating his M/W complex.
Additionally, you want to show him that you enjoy sex with him, and also bring the more taboo things in incrementally, like I showed in "Sexual Awakening".
Don't be afraid to show him when you're horny and push for sex.
Once you've got your foot in the door on that front and you show him the pleasure-filled times to come, you shouldn't have a hard time going after what you really want; it's only fair after you've fulfilled his fantasy.
If he doesn't go for that then work on it over time. If he still clings onto his antiquated ideas of women's sexuality after repeated attempts, and this is a very important thing to you (and sex very often is), then you need to be willing drop him and seek out a guy who can deal with your sexuality without having an aneurism.
If you want to change his mind on women's sexuality logically, then the best way to do that is to do so after you've gotten into a more liberal sexual territory physically.
Let him know you think he's a stud, as the problem with insecure guys is that they don't really warm to the idea of their partner being sexually expressive... it's perceived as a threat.
Once he feels secure, you'll much more easily be able to discuss the concepts I've discussed in this article and the one on sexual awakenings on empowering women's sexual nature, which will help defeat his M/W once and for all.
To the guys reading this: don't let your ego get in the way of getting rid of your sexual hang-ups like the man in this example. Your girl has probably had good sex with guys that aren't you.
Big deal.
Learn to live with it.
A Takeaway from Madonna/Whore
Okkiiee dokie. That's it for today.
What I'd like you to take away from this article is to look at our societal views on sexuality more objectively and to notice that operating outside of them can be ultra helpful to many facets of your interactions with women.
I also hope that you relax enough and let go of your hang-ups so that you can find out what you truly like, whether it be monogamy, polygamy or total abstinence (okay, not really on that last one) rather than have the ideas you associate with your own sexuality be dictated by somebody else's framework.
And if you're a woman reading this, I hope you find my guide to opening a guy's eyes helpful... because in the long run, you'll be doing him a great service.
'Til next time.
Pete
UPDATE: to get a solid understanding of the history of Madonna/whore complex, where it comes from, and why it's so widespread a psychological phenomenon, see "Why Madonna/Whore is Intimately Linked with the West."
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