Pickup Problems Faced by Intermediate Seducers

Hey guys, welcome back.

Today I want to address a rarely discussed subject: issues intermediate and advanced players face with their learning curves. We often talk about difficulties beginners face, such as approach and escalation anxiety, lack of motivation and confidence, and even becoming depressed.

I know coaches who specialize in helping beginners. They spend time motivating them and playing the role of a therapist so beginners deal with whatever issue they may face while teaching them the basic skillset.

Many products are also geared toward beginners. They give a basic understanding of social dynamics and teach them the fundamentals of pickup and seduction.

Fewer products or coaching programs are dedicated to intermediate practitioners and even fewer to advanced guys. I will get to why that is.

I am careful about calling a top-tier advanced guy a student since they might hire me as a consultant to get an external perspective or learn about something I specialize in to master a new area.

Take a moment to jot down some challenges these two groups of students face. Then I will share a few words on dealing with these issues.

 

Intermediate Guys

Intermediates have plenty of material to work with. They do not yet know every angle of seduction, though; there are still plenty of techniques they can learn—perhaps a technique that will revolutionize their game.

Intermediate guys tend to lack consistency. They may master getting certain types of girls in certain venues and settings. This is true for unusual settings. Many outings resemble previous ones, but some will have a unique character, where the intermediate guy gets lost.

They may make mistakes too often, but they do many things right. The result? Intermediate guys get decent results but have questionable consistency.

This leads them to be less selective since consistency and a high meet-to-lay ratio correlate with abundance, selectiveness, and the quality of girls (and quantity, of course).

Their theoretical knowledge is limited. Therefore, when they make a mistake, they diagnose the situation through a limited framework, often leading to misdiagnosis. They work with a narrow framework of theory from the fewer techniques they’ve mastered, the situations in which they are able to pull, and the type of girls they have experience with.

And, by failing to diagnose properly, they usually fail to find the best solution for their sticking point.

It’s a known phenomenon. Many intermediate guys get fast exponential growth: their skillset increases quickly, then their results as soon as they figure out a few techniques that work and get the feel of things.

But they only grow to a certain point, reaching a plateau. Their failure to properly diagnose new situations because of limited experience and the inability to find or apply the right solution to a problem (which they may not see in the first place) leads to this plateau.

And this stage is frustrating. They go from rocking the field and experiencing exponential growth in skills and a period of high momentum right into low momentum.

 

Momentum and Commitment

Intermediates are very momentum dependent. They will do amazingly well on a good night, but when the pendulum swings back and their momentum changes from high to low, they struggle. Low momentum is often when they commit to one of their hotter girls. They usually lose some motivation due to low momentum, and they manage to get one of those hotter girls, something they hadn’t been able to do earlier.

They cannot get high-quality girls regularly (consistency), so they tend to commit to the first girls they get, especially if they start experiencing low momentum.

READ MORE: Why Do Guys So Often Take Girlfriends Right After Major Pickup Breakthroughs?

This is usually a bad idea since they don’t always screen for the best girl. They often commit to an off-the-rails crazy girl. I’ve watched this scenario repeatedly unfold on the forums over the years: intermediate guys committing to a girl, dropping the game for a while only to come back whining about her (or women in general as they get biased and generalize all women as crazy). Then they get out of this, and the cycle continues until they reach the advanced level—that is, if they are motivated to work toward the next level.

 

The Vicious Circle

There is a catch here. One problem intermediate players face is that they do have some success with some lays under their belt. They are not the useless, frustrated beginner anymore. They manage to get some pulls, and may even have great nights when they feel like the king of the world. And this leads to a strong ego.

I have seen this over and over again: after exponential growth, these intermediates can become a bit cocky. They finally had a taste of success. They enjoy feeling successful and being a Casanova for a while. Why would they suddenly turn humble and seek help? Why would they suddenly want to become students again?

Being a Casanova and having success with women feels good for the ego. They finally got a taste of accomplishment, a few lays, and success stories to back up this newly-acquired perception.

Yet, they still have plenty to learn, and this ego will eventually hinder their growth.

Even when their exponential growth stalls and they struggle in low momentum (hit that plateau), they will usually commit to a girl who may not be well-suited for a relationship rather than trying to grow further. It is easier to just girlfriend-up a girl than to become humble and seek help. There’s nothing wrong with getting a girlfriend, but those who commit to a girl in this situation tend to make VERY bad choices.

Some guys do not seek to girlfriend-up the first great-looking girl (without caring much about personality; VERY important in relationships) who still pull when facing low momentum. These are the guys who have the motivation to grow to the next level. They ask for help, which is good.

The problem is that their ego is still in the way, so they get defensive when their mistakes are pointed out. They disagree with more advanced and experienced seducers. They become resistant to advice. They discard it because they know better—or at least, their ego wants them to convince themselves that they know better. And it becomes a vicious circle.

 

What Should Intermediates Do?

Ironically, advanced guys are more open to outside perspectives and advice than intermediate guys. It should be the other way around. Advanced guys usually know they have nothing to prove, and they typically do not care about feeling like Casanova as a means to satisfy their ego—been there done that. They just want to grow.

Yet, the story is different for the intermediate guy. So what should they do?

• Most realize that sooner or later, they will have to be humble and open to advice. This usually happens when they get fed up with being stuck, and their plateau lasts for so long that they feel they cannot live up to the Casanova ideal.

• Some eventually become humbled after being stuck in a relationship with a toxic girl.

But this is a long and painful road to take. Sadly some men will take this road, no matter what, and there will be nothing I or anyone else can say to convince them otherwise.

However, for those who do not want to go down this road, here are some options:

• Become aware of these issues. Being aware that one is intermediate, and even though it is great that you’ve had some success, it is crucial to understand that there is more to learn. New and more powerful techniques will rock your game.

• Know that becoming advanced means becoming smoother and more consistent which will positively affect getting out of bad momentum faster, and you will do better than intermediate guys. Everyone experiences high and low momentum, but the difference is that advanced guys do much better when facing low momentum and get out of it much faster.

• As you keep learning, you will have a bigger toolset and a more sophisticated theoretical framework to use and apply to solve many problems. You will not be stuck on a plateau for long; you will quickly solve sticking points, learn new techniques, better your game, get more results, and eventually reach high momentum again.

Sadly, many intermediate guys get seduced by being Casanova and that leader of men. They desire to be the Guru and lead clueless beginners—sadly only causing harm to those beginners. There isn’t much to do about it, but these guys eventually stop once they get an existential crisis and realize that their game is truly limited.

 

Advanced Guys

I will not say much about advanced guys because there is not much to say. They know their stuff; they are consistent. They are good at screening for suited girlfriends, and they rarely face much trouble with them. They girlfriend-up a girl because they want to, not because the situation pushes them. This changes the dynamic in their relationship. They also have less chance of trouble with their girlfriend because they have a frame of abundance and could easily walk away if needed. And if things do go sour, they will be sad for a bit, but rarely anything devastating that would last for long. Before you know it, they are back out there rocking the field.

And those, like myself, who do not seek this arrangement prefer rocking the field. They are consistent; they pull out crazy and memorable stories. They face low momentum, but it is not bad and is usually short-lived. Women are the least of their problems since they can meet them easily with consistency. They meet higher-quality women through a smoother process that leads to better interactions and sex! It is awesome.

What else is cool at the advanced level?

• Advanced guys have a better experience in relationships since they are with better girls. They know more about women, so they have better relationship management. They are in a better position in the relationship.

• Advanced guys have more time in-field when meeting new girls. Being very good at this makes everything more exciting, fun, and pleasurable. This is my experience. I love going out in the field more now than ever, and it continually becomes more fun.

What problems do advanced guys face?

Some examples:

• Approach/seduction laziness: When tired, not horny, or if facing low momentum. They will be too lazy to put in the work. They will think, “Ah, screw it; I will just call an F-buddy.” Is it a problem? Yes, but it’s not a big problem, and I do not feel sad for them, so I will not propose any solutions. Poor them! But if I had to suggest something: get a wingman as good as you and have him motivate you. Having a high-level wingman will do wonders for your motivation. Another suggestion: focus on techniques you have not yet tried to make things exciting or invent new concepts and techniques we can all benefit from (please do that).

• They may face a plateau. This typically happens because they cannot progress much. There isn’t a proper solution to their problem, or mainstream pickup and seduction literature has not identified the issue. You either have to work your butt off (maybe with your advanced friends or wings) to figure it out or consult an expert experienced with those issues.

• Progress is not exponential. I have grown in skills since 2018, but not by much. Yet I am dedicated, more now than ever. Why? I have no clue. The learning curve slows down a lot once you reach the advanced level. Yet, there is always more to learn. You can always improve.

• They may want to focus on a field of seduction they don’t yet know. Say you are a deadly daygamer. Perhaps work on nightgame or social circles if you aren’t excelling there yet. You will increase growth and get the most out of your time.

• They can become too obsessed with their main field. I do not see a problem with this; just stating some facts.

• They may have a periodic rant over “what is the end game” of seduction. Nobody knows. There doesn’t seem to be a need for an end game. But this is my opinion, and I should dedicate this question to an article of its own.

 

Conclusion

Yes, it is good to be an advanced player. So if you are intermediate, you may want to consider reaching that higher level. The journey is fun, I promise.

And beginners, oh, if you only knew how much cool stuff you yet have to learn! It may seem frustrating at first, but trust me, one day, you will look back at your beginner and intermediate phases with joy since the process was more fun and exciting than you remember it to be.

The bottom line of this post is that no matter how great or crappy you are, always be open to taking a student’s role. I have myself said that I am an eternal student of seduction.

And you should be, too.

Best,

Alek